Giant Elephant in the room (Peyton Mannings Playoff record = 9-10)

[artie_dale]

I was listening to ESPN radio in Denver (via online through my phone) and this discussion came up.

As much as Peyton Manning dominates during the regular season, his playoff record is below .500 with a total of 19 games (9-10 to be exact). What does everyone make of this and should we be concerend this post season?


Here is my explination why I am not worried.

People will and have said that the Broncos latter side of their schedule was easier than the first. Well, I say "duh, but who gives a shit!" This team HAD to go through the rough part of growing pains (new QB, new system, new timing with WRs, etc...). This team isn't necessarily a different team than it was the first 5 games, but it IS the same good team that is pinging on all cylinders.

Back to Peyton and his playoff record...

Lets compare pre-Peyton Manning to someone else who has gone through simliar struggles. John Elway's playoff recored is 14-7. But, prior to his last two stints (ended in Super Bowl wins), his record was 7-7. Pretty close to what Peyton's current record is. Elway didn't win until more of the right pieces were put in place and the teams he won with were more whole teams. Would everyone agree with that?

Peyton has taken his teams to the playoffs damn near every year he's played. But, in the playoffs, teams are the best of the best... and if Peyton is anything like what I think plagued Elway before his Super Bowl wins, I believe Peyton may have felt it was always all on his shoulders (just like I think Elway felt the same way). The good news is, Elway is one of Peyton's boses and BOTH have the same goal (to win the Super Bowl). I'm confident he and Elway have talked and are talking and I'm sure both are realizing how many things they have in common as far as their past experiences. AND, I'm sure Elway is telling/showing Peyton how he is setting him up so he won't have that burden of "its all on my shoulders". Both these guys (JFM & PFM) working together is and has been quite the force and have worked great together like two different puzzles that just so happen to fit perfectly together.

What say you?

[CoachChaz]

I think I'm more concerned about the elements than his history

[artie_dale]

I think I'm more concerned about the elements than his history

But the elements affect everyone. And from my own experience, playing football in a big game while its freezing outsite, the hype, adrenaline, and excitement can keep you plenty warm... on top of that, these guys have hand warmers and heaters. I'm not worried about the elements affecting Peyton Manning any more than I expect it to affect the rest players.

[SR]

They said John Elway wouldn't beat the Packers in the Super Bowl because he had lost the last three he had been to.

[artie_dale]

They said John Elway wouldn't beat the Packers in the Super Bowl because he had lost the last three he had been to.

Right. That argument was only supported by his Super Bowl record. They didn't note how ready the rest of the team was. Now they do.

[cmc0605]

There are a lot of stats in football which are useful and representative of something significant. Then there are other stats like the "all time record of a team vs. another team" which have absolutely no relevance to anything, and are interesting at best. What Denver did against a team in 1970 doesn't matter at all for a game in 2013.

Peyton Manning's "record in the playoffs" is an example of the latter. Completely new team, new environment, new coaching, new scheme. I know the media likes to praise and blame quarterbacks for the outcome of games. Whether Peyton Manning lost a playoff game ten years ago actually doesn't mean squat for saturday's game.

[BroncoWave]

There are a lot of stats in football which are useful and representative of something significant. Then there are other stats like the "all time record of a team vs. another team" which have absolutely no relevance to anything, and are interesting at best. What Denver did against a team in 1970 doesn't matter at all for a game in 2013.

Peyton Manning's "record in the playoffs" is an example of the latter. Completely new team, new environment, new coaching, new scheme. I know the media likes to praise and blame quarterbacks for the outcome of games. Whether Peyton Manning lost a playoff game ten years ago actually doesn't mean squat for saturday's game.

Hit the nail on the head. Probably one of the reasons Vegas makes so much money on sports gambling is that people look at past trends to base their results on as if that will have any impact on the current game being played.

[CoachChaz]

But the elements affect everyone. And from my own experience, playing football in a big game while its freezing outsite, the hype, adrenaline, and excitement can keep you plenty warm... on top of that, these guys have hand warmers and heaters. I'm not worried about the elements affecting Peyton Manning any more than I expect it to affect the rest players.

I'd be willing to bet the elements affect a running back less severely than they do a QB or WR. I'm not saying this will doom PM or anyone else, mostly just saying his history in the playoffs doesnt concern me

[artie_dale]

There are a lot of stats in football which are useful and representative of something significant. Then there are other stats like the "all time record of a team vs. another team" which have absolutely no relevance to anything, and are interesting at best. What Denver did against a team in 1970 doesn't matter at all for a game in 2013.

Peyton Manning's "record in the playoffs" is an example of the latter. Completely new team, new environment, new coaching, new scheme. I know the media likes to praise and blame quarterbacks for the outcome of games. Whether Peyton Manning lost a playoff game ten years ago actually doesn't mean squat for saturday's game.

So, you're saying there's no point in comparing a team from one season to another? No point in comparing the team/situation Elway had when he won Super Bowls vs when he lost?

[artie_dale]

Hit the nail on the head. Probably one of the reasons Vegas makes so much money on sports gambling is that people look at past trends to base their results on as if that will have any impact on the current game being played.

I don't believe any outcome of any game in the past has any direct outcome on any future game. What I do believe is worth considering is how the roster and coaching is different.

[BroncoWave]

I don't believe any outcome of any game in the past has any direct outcome on any future game. What I do believe is worth considering is how the roster and coaching is different.

Of course, but those are two entirely different points. I was simply talking about the people who only use past record as an indication of future events. Of course you should consider the impact the current roster and coaching will have on the impact of the game.

[Ravage!!!]

So, you're saying there's no point in comparing a team from one season to another? No point in comparing the team/situation Elway had when he won Super Bowls vs when he lost?

Exactly

[Ravage!!!]

I don't believe any outcome of any game in the past has any direct outcome on any future game. What I do believe is worth considering is how the roster and coaching is different.

Sooo, are you saying that because of our roster change and coaches that we should look at Mannings playoff history??? :confused:

[cmc0605]

So, you're saying there's no point in comparing a team from one season to another? No point in comparing the team/situation Elway had when he won Super Bowls vs when he lost?

I don't see why other than because it might be interesting or academic. I think everyone can agree that we have a better team than last year. What information does that tell you about the coming game against the Ravens?

[weazel]

even bigger elephant in the room... Broncos 2-3 in Superbowls :shocked:

[Freyaka]

I don't think you can really look at the past and say "well this happened here so...." His playoff history is only as good as the team around him...Elway lost how many superbowls before he finally got a team around him and started winning? Manning and the Colts have such a bad history post season because A. they outside of 05/06 didn't have much of a run game and they have really never had much of a defense.

This team is far more complete than any team Manning has ever played on. And when it comes to the "Manning is not good in the cold" debate, he never played on a cold weather team prior to this season. This season he's spent a lot of time practicing outdoors with snow on the ground he's more acclimated to it much like he's more acclimated to the altitude.

I don't think you can look at his history prior to the Broncos because it's a different team, different surroundings, different story all together.

[artie_dale]

Sooo, are you saying that because of our roster change and coaches that we should look at Mannings playoff history??? :confused:

Nah. I was only suggesting that Manning and Elway had similar playoff records (before Elway's last two seasons) and that their unsuccessful teams lacked wholeness, and that Elway's SB winning teams were whole and balanced, which is a lot of what Manning has going for him this season. All moot? I don't think so.

[Dzone]

"The Glove" will be magic this year.

[Chef Zambini]

tebow haS A BETTER WINNING % IN the play-offs. who wants tebow?
thats what I thought.
history is horseshit. only saturday will matter, not history.
Peyton is undefeated against the ravens, think he will take a break from his preparation as a consiquence/ fat freakin chance !
history schmistory, his 9 wins and 10 losses dont mean shit on saturday.

[Freyaka]

"The Glove" will be magic this year.

I'm glad that he is using the glove because I think it helped him vs KC and I don't know that he'd ever used it prior to this season.

[Buff]

Let me preface this by saying I realize this is completely irrational and not at all scientific. This is my own Bill Simmons'esque theory based on nothing more than some random observation.

But knowing what we know about his playoff record, and watching his Chiefs postgame interviews, Manning seemed way too nostalgic, and nice, and retrospective. Like a guy who had just finished a marathon and was ready to go into recovery mode. Like a guy who just flipped the switch into off season mode. Who knows if anything will ever come of it - but if we come out flat on Saturday - not only will I hate playoff byes with a passion, but I will also start to wonder if Manning's mental preparation is so rigorous in the regular season that it actually impedes his ability to have anything left in the tank for postseason.

I'm hoping that all of that is a moot point this weekend and we win by 40 and my theory is garbage. But it did cross my mind after the Chiefs game.

[Northman]

They said John Elway wouldn't beat the Packers in the Super Bowl because he had lost the last three he had been to.

This^

While its still unlikely we can beat a team like the Pats because of our youth anything can still happen. Shit, im happy that we made it too 13-3 because i sure didnt believe we would do this well in his first year here.

[Ravage!!!]

Not sure I see any of that Buff, but I too hope you are wrong.

[Nomad]

It's all Holliday's fault.

signed

Zam:D

:lol:

[Buff]

Not sure I see any of that Buff, but I too hope you are wrong.

Oh, it's the definition of over-analysis, I admit that. But that was my gut feeling while watching the interview - like, "why is he acting so vulnerable and being so reflective?" It was a side of Manning I hadn't seen. Maybe he just felt like he could let his hair down a bit with the regular season over.

[LawDog]

even bigger elephant in the room... Broncos 2-3 in Superbowls :shocked:

Um, 2-4. Lost to Cowboys, Giants, Redskins, and 49ers; Beat Packers and Falcons...

[Hawgdriver]

I think I'm more concerned about the elements than his history

Decent thought, but upon closer inspection does inclement weather really matter? We're talking snow on the ground, wind and even snow in the air, and rock-hard footballs. I say the answer is no, the elements do not matter.

It shouldn't affect the Broncos passing game. PFM's forte is the short pass. Short passes are less affected by wind and visibility issues. Even if they are affected, QBs keep throwing, they just compensate. Remember Tom Brady dropping a 59 on the Titans a few years back? On a snow-drenched field? The elements might even favor the passing game. After all, once a receiver in space has possession and some footspeed, he can laugh at defenders as they match their junk vector with the turf condition and go, 'does not compute.'

I see the elements equally affecting Flacco. But, as the song goes, everything Flacco can do, PFM can do better.

Maybe it gives Baltimore some edge, because they have Ray Rice, who is dangerous in space on short passes. Perhaps. Then again, Del Rio has done a good job of containing threats. Denver has threats, too.

As long as the line continues to do what it has done all season, clog the middle like a diet high in fiber doesn't, I don't see how the elements matter.

[CrazyHorse]

This^

While its still unlikely we can beat a team like the Pats because of our youth anything can still happen. Shit, im happy that we made it too 13-3 because i sure didnt believe we would do this well in his first year here.

STOP IT! Don't say it's unlikely we beat the Pats... Simply not true. If it weren't for turnovers that game has a different outcome and that's at Foxboro. We beat them with Plummer and Orton... We have as good a shot as any team in the play offs.

[Freyaka]

STOP IT! Don't say it's unlikely we beat the Pats... Simply not true. If it weren't for turnovers that game has a different outcome and that's at Foxboro. We beat them with Plummer and Orton... We have as good a shot as any team in the play offs.

I agree we do have a good chance, however out of all the teams left they also have the best chance of beating us IMO.

I hope we beat them black and blue because I can't stand a single one of them.

[LawDog]

STOP IT! Don't say it's unlikely we beat the Pats... Simply not true. If it weren't for turnovers that game has a different outcome and that's at Foxboro. We beat them with Plummer and Orton... We have as good a shot as any team in the play offs.

See also, Arizona Cardinals - the only team to beat either the Patriots or Broncos that is not (still) in the playoffs. Other than that one loss, I think the pats and the Broncos are pretty evenly matched, and with home field I see the Broncos as having the slight edge should they meet in the AFCCG.

[Buff]

STOP IT! Don't say it's unlikely we beat the Pats... Simply not true. If it weren't for turnovers that game has a different outcome and that's at Foxboro. We beat them with Plummer and Orton... We have as good a shot as any team in the play offs.

Yeah North, we beat them with Plummer like a decade ago, therefore nothing to worry about.

[ShaneFalco]

Any Given Sunday

[VonMiller58]

Difference between Colts SB Team in 2006 and us right now? We have a better defense that cracked top 5 in total defense, rushing and passing. We're top 5 in everything except Offensive rushing yds. Which is understandable considering our #1 RB got injured half way through the season. Statistically we are a better team than the 2006 Colts. However, obviously it's how you play in the playoffs that gets you to the Superbowl. We have the advantages on our side. Old Ravens defense coming into a thin air stadium, it will wear them down. Key is to score first and keep them behind. I don't think Ed Reed (34), Ray Lewis (37), Terrell Suggs (lingering Achilles acting up) will have the energy going into the 2nd half as they did perhaps in Baltimore last weekend. Ray Lewis' retirement celebration is over, the emotional last game played at Baltimore is behind them and there is no crowd to back him up in Denver. No one will be chanting his name, or the defenses name to give them extra motivation.

[VonMiller58]

Yeah North, we beat them with Plummer like a decade ago, therefore nothing to worry about.

Our defense folds like a cheap suit against the Pats. Our numbers against Tight ends is the only alarming thing in regards to playing the Pats.

[Nomad]

You all are scared!:lol:

[VonMiller58]

You all are scared!:lol:

Over analyzing stats is scarring us I think, it makes me a little unnerved. We just need that first drive to be over with and we can all breath.

[Nomad]

Over analyzing stats is scarring us I think, it makes me a little unnerved. We just need that first drive to be over with and we can all breath.

I was kidding. inside joke with a few around here.

[VonMiller58]

I was kidding. inside joke with a few around here.

Ahh I see, well yeah I was totally kidding around about the whole unnerved thing too..

[TXBRONC]

They said John Elway wouldn't beat the Packers in the Super Bowl because he had lost the last three he had been to.

You could add to that his individual preformance in those Super Bowls wasn't very good either.

[gregbroncs]

even bigger elephant in the room... Broncos 2-3 in Superbowls :shocked:Umm they are 2-4 actually. Elway was 2-3 and they lost one before he joined the team.

Damn it. Lawdog beat me to it.

[broncobryce]

I'm not convinced we can win more than one playoff game. Our record this season against playoff teams is what, 2-3? Hopefully our winning streak lasts 3 more games

[Day1BroncoFan]

Come Saturday the best team will win and so it will be thereafter. All the history won't make a bit of difference.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not convinced we can win more than one playoff game. Our record this season against playoff teams is what, 2-3? Hopefully our winning streak lasts 3 more games

Do you honestly think we would lose to Houston or Atlanta again if we played them again today? We are a completely different team right now. To say we can't win 2 playoff games because of how we played two months ago is really shortchanging this team.

[NightTrainLayne]

I don't pay too much attention to playoff records in the NFL. If they begin to approach .500 that is about as good as you can hope for due to the low number of games played, and the single elimination format.

Teams that earn a first round bye, make it to the second round, but do not earn a "win". If you give Manning, (or anyone else) a win for every year they earned a first round bye, they're winning percentage would be more representative IMO.

[Simple Jaded]

Instead of regurgitating win/loss records you heard on radio I wish someone would post who the Indianapolis Mannings lost to.......

[Dzone]

What happened in the past is meaningless..all that matters is NOW

[Poet]

When you win a SB you no longer have to answer questions about your ability in the playoffs. He won the big one when his defense didn't force him to do everything.

[Dapper Dan]

What sticks out to me is that we have a quarterback that has played in 19 playoff games. I'll take that.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not convinced we can win more than one playoff game. Our record this season against playoff teams is what, 2-3? Hopefully our winning streak lasts 3 more games

All of those loses occurred within the first five weeks of the season when this team was still in the process of gelling.

[Freyaka]

I'm not convinced we can win more than one playoff game. Our record this season against playoff teams is what, 2-3? Hopefully our winning streak lasts 3 more games

We lost 2 of those 3 games by a combined 12 points and the 3rd by 10 points and that was at the very beginning of the season prior to the offense having any kind of chemistry. We've only gotten better since the patriots loss. We will beat the Ravens and then we'll follow it up by Von, Wolfe and Doom beating Tom Brady black and blue and making Gizelle cry.

[PatriotsGuy]

But knowing what we know about his playoff record, and watching his Chiefs postgame interviews, Manning seemed way too nostalgic, and nice, and retrospective. Like a guy who had just finished a marathon and was ready to go into recovery mode.

I agree with Buff's paranoid assessment, and I hear the Bronco offense is going all shotgun formation with Manning taking the snaps from a yellow lawn chair. Sorry guys, heck of a season though.

[Freyaka]

I agree with Buff's paranoid assessment, and I hear the Bronco offense is going all shotgun formation with Manning taking the snaps from a yellow lawn chair. Sorry guys, heck of a season though.

I'm just wondering what player Gisele is going to blame this year when another Manning ends their superbowl dreams.

[broncobryce]

Do you honestly think we would lose to Houston or Atlanta again if we played them again today? We are a completely different team right now. To say we can't win 2 playoff games because of how we played two months ago is really shortchanging this team.

I don't know. We played Cincinnati and Baltimore and had a relatively easy schedule beyond that. Now 11 wins in a row is impressive regardless, but I'm nervous about the AFC championship game. I didn't say we "can't" win. I just said I'm not convinced.

[PatriotsGuy]

I'm just wondering what player Gisele is going to blame this year when another Manning ends their superbowl dreams.

prolly Welker

[Chef Zambini]

any given sundaybut we play on saturday !

[CoachChaz]

Personally, I think we're still a few players away from being dominant, but if the Super Bowl participants of the past few years have proven anything...you dont have to be dominant to win the big one. We have just as good of a chance as any of the other teams

[Ravage!!!]

I don't know. We played Cincinnati and Baltimore and had a relatively easy schedule beyond that. Now 11 wins in a row is impressive regardless, but I'm nervous about the AFC championship game. I didn't say we "can't" win. I just said I'm not convinced.

Well, thats an easy stance to take. It's safe. It's one of not wanting to get your hopes up, and I can see that. I pretty much take the same stances as I always "see the worst but hope for the best."

You say you are not convinced, but think we COULD win. Is anyone ever really 100% positive a team will go all the way to the Super Bowl? No. "not convinced we can win the AFC Championship game." I mean, there is only one way to convince you, right? If we win, then you are convinced, and if we don't then you can say to yourself "see, I knew it."

[Freyaka]

A few things to think about with the New England game earlier in the year. Back then we still had Porter starting, Harris has done better in his place. We also still had Joe Mays the starting MLB and since Brooking took over we've seen improvement in that area. They ran on us so effectively because all they had to do is run at mays for big yards.

Another big change is our players have grown a lot since then, look at Derek Wolfe as a perfect example, he's played far better as the season has gone on and he's not the only one. DT and Decker have really come on since the San Diego game KM has been playing well and hasn't been turning over the ball (a problem that contributed in that loss to New England) We really are a different team than we were then and the defense has improved greatly since we last saw New England. If we don't win it will at least be a very close game that will come down to the last second.

Bottom line is Brady can't win in the playoffs Vs players with the last name Manning :D

[PatriotsGuy]

You all know you're playing Baltimore, right?

[VonMiller58]

A few things to think about with the New England game earlier in the year. Back then we still had Porter starting, Harris has done better in his place. We also still had Joe Mays the starting MLB and since Brooking took over we've seen improvement in that area. They ran on us so effectively because all they had to do is run at mays for big yards.

Another big change is our players have grown a lot since then, look at Derek Wolfe as a perfect example, he's played far better as the season has gone on and he's not the only one. DT and Decker have really come on since the San Diego game KM has been playing well and hasn't been turning over the ball (a problem that contributed in that loss to New England) We really are a different team than we were then and the defense has improved greatly since we last saw New England. If we don't win it will at least be a very close game that will come down to the last second.

Bottom line is Brady can't win in the playoffs Vs players with the last name Manning :D

I've seen great improvement with Rahim Moore this year as opposed to recent years. I never thought he would develop into the player we expected him to be, but he's made big plays this year and isn't giving up big plays either. I'm impressed so far.

[nyuk nyuk]

How is this an elephant in the living room? If this is the case, then certainly the Ravens record against Manning is as well should be Tom Brady's 3-6 career record against Denver if the Polaroids come here.

[Chef Zambini]

manning against the ravens, thats the giraffe in the room.
brady, started out 10-0 in the play-offs, now just a .5000 Qb in his last 12 outings, the walrus in the room.

[ShaneFalco]

2211

[Freyaka]

I've seen great improvement with Rahim Moore this year as opposed to recent years. I never thought he would develop into the player we expected him to be, but he's made big plays this year and isn't giving up big plays either. I'm impressed so far.

I agree he's really improved since the beginning of the season as well which is great because I know a lot of people were willing to write him off.

[BroncoWave]

I agree he's really improved since the beginning of the season as well which is great because I know a lot of people were willing to write him off.

Really, our fans wrote a guy off after struggling in his first year or two? And were premature in such a reaction? Noooooo....

[Freyaka]

Really, our fans wrote a guy off after struggling in his first year or two? And were premature in such a reaction? Noooooo....

I know right....That Knowshon Moreno...he's a real bust we should just cut him....What Robert Ayers? He doesn't get sacks cut him....Elvis Dumervil isn't getting enough sacks this year (before he started getting sacks) lets cut him he's overpaid....


Our fanbase is so bad about doing crap like that....

[artie_dale]

Hey, I wrote Knowshon off and I still think that was justified at the time. I even wrote him off THIS season when he fumbled in the first game and lost his backup position to Hillman. I'm happy he's doing well now. I'm pulling for him but ain't entirely sold, but he hasn't turned the ball over (knock on wood) since his return and he's been refreshing to watch run. If he can keep this up, I'm glad he's still here. Nothing wrong with changing an opinion, but everything that led up to his benching this season... I don't think it deserved anything less than people not putting anymore faith in him.

If you still want to argue that "I" have been wrong all along and that he was just as capable of being productive since we've had him... then my arguement back to any of you is "Would he be this productive had we not had Peyton Manning?" Because he wasn't.

[artie_dale]

Anyone else hear about all the talk about how the Raven's new offensive coordinator switched his left and right tackles? I think the reason he made that move is because Flacco tends to wigout when he SEES someone coming. Lucky for us, Doom & Von can line up on either side... or on the same side. Either way, our D will make Flacco wigout.

[artie_dale]

How is this an elephant in the living room? If this is the case, then certainly the Ravens record against Manning is as well should be Tom Brady's 3-6 career record against Denver if the Polaroids come here.

I was actually quoting/repeating what the guys on the radio (ESPN Denver) called it.

[coltboy19]

he's a bum, spider rico of the nfl

[BroncoJoe]

he's a bum, spider rico of the nfl

You're really not very good at trash talking.

Eating trash is another story, I'm sure.

[Chef Zambini]

what was JFE'
s play-off record before the SB winning season?
PFM is a top 5 QB, we are fortunate to have him!
if you consider the entangeables he brings to the team, he is easily the most valuable person in the lockerroom !
honestly, I dont think he was able to throw a viable pass over 25 yards on saturday. HGis performance and execution are my only evidense.
WHY?
I dont know the why, I just hope its something that can and will be fixed before next season !

[artie_dale]

I'm with you on that Zam. The evidence is there. But as far as him being the reason the Broncos lost, I disagree with that 100%, now. I do like to point out how terrible the refereeing was, but that too wasn't the reason the Broncos lost. I'm not even crazy about how conservative John Fox was, but that wasn't the reason we lost (in my opinion.... and the reason Atl passed on 3rd & short or whatever it was, was because they were losing). The reason I believe we lost (I'm sure its been said but I'm not going to look for it) is our defense let us all down a number of times during that game. Not just one person, MANY PERSONS. But, I want them all back because this builds character and strength. They've already got the talent.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Bigger elephant in the room......

Peyton Manning has played in 19 playoff games.

:coffee: