Why Didn't Brandstater play?

[Overtime]

WTH? Why didn't Tom Brandstater play last night? I wanted to see how that kid did.

Isn't it McDaniels job to evaluate "all" of our QB options? How is he doing that when you don't even play the kid in a pre-season game.

:mad:

[Dean]

The coaching staff may have already made the evaluation that he will be a candidate for the practice squad. They may not want to give other teams video to evaluate his play and possible sign him away.

:questionmark:

[Northman]

WTH? Why didn't Tom Brandstater play last night? I wanted to see how that kid did.

Isn't it McDaniels job to evaluate "all" of our QB options? How is he doing that when you don't even play the kid in a pre-season game.

:mad:


Had Kyle been better than he had we might hae seen Tom at some point. But considering how bad Kyle was McD kept him in the entire first half. Tom wont be playing anytime soon anyway so there's no real rush to get him on the field as it is.

[NightTrainLayne]

The coaching staff may have already made the evaluation that he will be a candidate for the practice squad. They may not want to give other teams video to evaluate his play and possible sign him away.

:questionmark:

That's a good thought. I imagine it has more to do with the fact that they know he's not going to be our starter this season, and Orton and Simms need all the practice in game situations that they can get.

So many changes, means we need a lot of work (obviously from last night) before the regular season starts.

[Kaylore]

Brandstater is a seventh round rookie who is struggling to take snaps let alone run an offense that requires you to make line calls against NFL defenses. They have a host of players to evaluate: Receivers, tight ends, running backs and offensive linemen. They need a QB in the game who can call the plays efficiently so the rest of the players can be evaluated. Since Brandstater is a project, they aren't going to waste reps on him fumbling around at the expense of seeing the other players who will actually play this year perform.

[Tned]

Brandstater is a seventh round rookie who is struggling to take snaps let alone run an offense that requires you to make line calls against NFL defenses. They have a host of players to evaluate: Receivers, tight ends, running backs and offensive linemen. They need a QB in the game who can call the plays efficiently so the rest of the players can be evaluated. Since Brandstater is a project, they aren't going to waste reps on him fumbling around at the expense of seeing the other players who will actually play this year perform.

You beat me to it.

There is zero chance he starts this year, unless we had two QBs go down in a game. If one of our QBs got hurt, we would likely pickup a vet free agent over starting him.

That's just the way it is with late round flyer/project QB picks. I know everyone looks at Brady and Cassel and talk about how McDaniels only drafts QBs late, but the fact is he had nothing to do with drafting Brady and it is unkown if he had any influence in drafting Cassel.

Cassel sat on the bench for three years, before getting a start do to Brady's injury.

Just look how many late round QB flyers the Broncos have taken over the years. It is possible that he will turn into a solid backup, or even possibly a starter, a few years down the road, but playing him last night would simpy have taken snaps away from the two QBs that need to get comfortable in McD's system.

[Overtime]

Brandstater is a seventh round rookie who is struggling to take snaps let alone run an offense that requires you to make line calls against NFL defenses. They have a host of players to evaluate: Receivers, tight ends, running backs and offensive linemen. They need a QB in the game who can call the plays efficiently so the rest of the players can be evaluated. Since Brandstater is a project, they aren't going to waste reps on him fumbling around at the expense of seeing the other players who will actually play this year perform.

no he's a 6th round rookie.

but that's what the pre-season is all about. Everyone should play, so you can see what you have across the board. Oakland played all 3 of their QB's. San Fran played all 3 of theirs.

I think McD owes it to the team to play Brandstater, and at least know his strengths and weaknesses in a real live NFL game, and to see how he functions at game speed.

:tsk:

I'm not saying the kid is even ready to be our starter or even a backup, but put him in there, and let him play. who knows, we may be surprised, but we're never going to know unless he actually plays.

[Northman]

no he's a 6th round rookie.

but that's what the pre-season is all about. Everyone should play, so you can see what you have across the board. Oakland played all 3 of their QB's. San Fran played all 3 of theirs.

I think McD owes it to the team to play Brandstater, and at least know his strengths and weaknesses in a real live NFL game, and to see how he functions at game speed.

:tsk:

I'm not saying the kid is even ready to be our starter or even a backup, but put him in there, and let him play. who knows, we may be surprised, but we're never going to know unless he actually plays.

Which he will at some point of the preseason. But obviously our 1st and 2nd string need more work than the 3rd string guy.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think this is little league and 'everyone' should play. The coaching staff knows what they need to look at and knows what they WANT to look at. They don't 'owe' the team to play B if he isn't something they consider to be needed at this time.

From the looks of things, they might need to start seeing more of Simms though.

[broncohead]

no he's a 6th round rookie.

but that's what the pre-season is all about. Everyone should play, so you can see what you have across the board. Oakland played all 3 of their QB's. San Fran played all 3 of theirs.

I think McD owes it to the team to play Brandstater, and at least know his strengths and weaknesses in a real live NFL game, and to see how he functions at game speed.

:tsk:

I'm not saying the kid is even ready to be our starter or even a backup, but put him in there, and let him play. who knows, we may be surprised, but we're never going to know unless he actually plays.

Good thing the preseason isn't over yet.

[BroncoWave]

Overtime, the goal is to win games THIS year, not 3 or 4 years from now, because that's how long it will be before Brandstater is any kind of an effective NFL QB.

Orton and Simms NEED those snaps because they are the only 2 QBs on our roster who can help us win football games THIS season.

Plus, I am plenty sure that McDaniels sees enough of Brandstater in practice to know if he's deserving of getting reps in preseason games.

I'm not surprised that you don't understand that though.

[Lonestar]

Had Kyle been better than he had we might hae seen Tom at some point. But considering how bad Kyle was McD kept him in the entire first half. Tom wont be playing anytime soon anyway so there's no real rush to get him on the field as it is.


I believe I read in the paper that it was planned on keeping the first teams on the field in the first half and start substituting in the second half..

T.B. is very raw and lets hope to God that we do not see him on the field this year..

[dogfish]

if you let the whole flippin' world see your secret weapon, it's not very secret any more, is it?

[T.K.O.]

if you let the whole flippin' world see your secret weapon, it's not very secret any more, is it?

actually i'm pretty sure he refused to play with "that haircut":D

[nevcraw]

no he's a 6th round rookie.

but that's what the pre-season is all about. Everyone should play, so you can see what you have across the board. Oakland played all 3 of their QB's. San Fran played all 3 of theirs.

I think McD owes it to the team to play Brandstater, and at least know his strengths and weaknesses in a real live NFL game, and to see how he functions at game speed.

:tsk:

I'm not saying the kid is even ready to be our starter or even a backup, but put him in there, and let him play. who knows, we may be surprised, but we're never going to know unless he actually plays.

McD owes the team a competitent signal caller who can run the offense starting week one.. It would seem from a far... there is still a lot of wood to chop to there - so muddying the waters with a raw 3rd stringer in the first preason game would be totally useless.

[Kaylore]

You beat me to it.

There is zero chance he starts this year, unless we had two QBs go down in a game. If one of our QBs got hurt, we would likely pickup a vet free agent over starting him.

That's just the way it is with late round flyer/project QB picks. I know everyone looks at Brady and Cassel and talk about how McDaniels only drafts QBs late, but the fact is he had nothing to do with drafting Brady and it is unkown if he had any influence in drafting Cassel.

Cassel sat on the bench for three years, before getting a start do to Brady's injury.

Just look how many late round QB flyers the Broncos have taken over the years. It is possible that he will turn into a solid backup, or even possibly a starter, a few years down the road, but playing him last night would simpy have taken snaps away from the two QBs that need to get comfortable in McD's system.


McD owes the team a competitent signal caller who can run the offense starting week one.. It would seem from a far... there is still a lot of wood to chop to there - so muddying the waters with a raw 3rd stringer in the first preason game would be totally useless.

That's what it comes down too. They are effectively building the team from scratch. No one's job is secure. They don't have the luxury of using playing time on a what is essentially a project when they haven't nailed down the starting positions yet.

[pnbronco]

That's what it comes down too. They are effectively building the team from scratch. No one's job is secure. They don't have the luxury of using playing time on a what is essentially a project when they haven't nailed down the starting positions yet.

It's great to see you here Kaylore. Great posts guys. This team is being built from scratch and they need to work on timing. A reporter asked McD if left Orton in because of the int's and he said no. The plan was to have him play the first half.

[TXBRONC]

He didn't get playing time because it's more important that Orton and Simms get the reps. Unless Orton and Simms go down with injuries he going be carrying a clip board all season.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Kaylore is right, absolutely top notch post buddie.

[Foochacho]

I think it is time to bring back some BVP action. I am going to order my Van Pelt Jersey right now, he is going to have a huge year.

[LRtagger]

Tom will get his chance, but right now we have to use every opportunity we can to get Orton acclimated to this offense. I would rather see Orton play this preseason rather than Tom so Orton can get the kinks out and get used to making the reads and making the throws.

Tom is a project and he will get his opportunity in the coming years.

[TXBRONC]

Tom will get his chance, but right now we have to use every opportunity we can to get Orton acclimated to this offense. I would rather see Orton play this preseason rather than Tom so Orton can get the kinks out and get used to making the reads and making the throws.

Tom is a project and he will get his opportunity in the coming years.

It wouldn't surprise if Brandstater got a few snaps in the maybe in the last preseason game .

[broncohead]

It wouldn't surprise if Brandstater got a few snaps in the maybe in the last preseason game .

They should stick him in with the first unit for 1 drive to see how he does.

[TXBRONC]

They should stick him in with the first unit for 1 drive to see how he does.

That would interesting to see but given the circumstances that's more than likely not going to happen.

[MOtorboat]

They should stick him in with the first unit for 1 drive to see how he does.


That would interesting to see but given the circumstances that's more than likely not going to happen.

The sky really is falling, isn't it...

[LRtagger]

I bet he plays probably the entire second half of the last preseason game...that is assuming Orton and Simms continue to progress and not regress.

Generally they use the 4th game to look at the players that are on the bubble and rest the starters. My guess is the 3rd and 4th stringers will play a majority of that game.

I still think Tom will be on the final roster. My gut tells me McD wants him to be exposed to as much as possible. He can't learn anything about the NFL sitting on the practice squad.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

no he's a 6th round rookie.

but that's what the pre-season is all about. Everyone should play, so you can see what you have across the board. Oakland played all 3 of their QB's. San Fran played all 3 of theirs.

I think McD owes it to the team to play Brandstater, and at least know his strengths and weaknesses in a real live NFL game, and to see how he functions at game speed.

:tsk:

I'm not saying the kid is even ready to be our starter or even a backup, but put him in there, and let him play. who knows, we may be surprised, but we're never going to know unless he actually plays.

If the circumstances were different - i.e. same coaches, basically same players, same offensive scheme, then more than likely he would have seen a little action in the game.

[MOtorboat]

If the circumstances were different - i.e. same coaches, basically same players, same offensive scheme, then more than likely he would have seen a little action in the game.

He owe's it to the team to play Brandstater, but the poster said he wants Moreno to be hurt and out for the season.

Makes complete sense to me.

[Lonestar]

I bet he plays probably the entire second half of the last preseason game...that is assuming Orton and Simms continue to progress and not regress.

Generally they use the 4th game to look at the players that are on the bubble and rest the starters. My guess is the 3rd and 4th stringers will play a majority of that game.

I still think Tom will be on the final roster. My gut tells me McD wants him to be exposed to as much as possible. He can't learn anything about the NFL sitting on the practice squad.


I think he will play also AFTER Josh knows what is going on..

I also suspect he will not be showing off his wares if they want him for the PS.. just be handling off to running backs As much as possible..

[Northman]

It's great to see you here Kaylore. Great posts guys. This team is being built from scratch and they need to work on timing. A reporter asked McD if left Orton in because of the int's and he said no. The plan was to have him play the first half.

Khan is the man. I wish he was here more.

[Overtime]

Tom will get his chance, but right now we have to use every opportunity we can to get Orton acclimated to this offense. I would rather see Orton play this preseason rather than Tom so Orton can get the kinks out and get used to making the reads and making the throws.

Tom is a project and he will get his opportunity in the coming years.

am I the only one who sees the fact that Orton is going to suck? Surely McDaniels can't be this ignorant? Orton might have a winning record and all, but come on....Simms was 5 times more efficient than Orton the other night, and I'm not a Chris Simms fan at all.

they need to cut Orton now or work a trade with Chokeland for Jeff Garcia, but honestly...if we have to endure a season with Orton as our starter, I'm really starting to wonder about McDaniels' thought process here.

I know it's just 1 pre-season game, but this guy has a history of poor play like this in Chicago.

I'm not ready to revisit the Jake Plummer days of inconsistency and costly interceptions......

[BroncoWave]

am I the only one who sees the fact that Orton is going to suck? Surely McDaniels can't be this ignorant? Orton might have a winning record and all, but come on....Simms was 5 times more efficient than Orton the other night, and I'm not a Chris Simms fan at all.

they need to cut Orton now or work a trade with Chokeland for Jeff Garcia, but honestly...if we have to endure a season with Orton as our starter, I'm really starting to wonder about McDaniels' thought process here.

I know it's just 1 pre-season game, but this guy has a history of poor play like this in Chicago.

I'm not ready to revisit the Jake Plummer days of inconsistency and costly interceptions......

Well if you think Brandstater has any chance to be any better than Orton this year then you really are ignorant.

And no, you have no idea how Orton will play this season. He is still learning a very complex system and did look solid at times in the first game. People have no damn patience today.

But if you really think he should cut Orton now, then there is really no point in discussing football with you because you clearly don't get it.

[Overtime]

come on now Bailey, it's not like Orton is a rookie. This is Shanahan + Plummer all over again.

McDaniels will have to tailor his offense around Orton, just the same way that Shanahan did with Plummer.

in the end it will turn out just the same.

[BroncoWave]

come on now Bailey, it's not like Orton is a rookie. This is Shanahan + Plummer all over again.

McDaniels will have to tailor his offense around Orton, just the same way that Shanahan did with Plummer.

in the end it will turn out just the same.

If by "the same" you mean we'll go to the playoffs for 3 straight years and go to another AFCCG then I will definitely take that over the next 3 seasons. Sign me up!

[Overtime]

no, I'm talking about the poor performance, the consistently terrible throws, and what not.

[BroncoWave]

no, I'm talking about the poor performance, the consistently terrible throws, and what not.

Seeing as you hate seemingly everything about the Broncos right now, why waste your time posting about them? Are you a masochist or something?

[pnbronco]

If by "the same" you mean we'll go to the playoffs for 3 straight years and go to another AFCCG then I will definitely take that over the next 3 seasons. Sign me up!

You took the words right out of my mouth BTB, me too. Also it was the first preseason game, which is practice that they charge money for. They said during the game and if was confirmed by a ex pro football player that Orton's plays were much more complicated than Simms. If it's still like this in Nov then I'll rethink my position, till then I'm exercising patience.

[Overtime]

no, im just tired of losing, tired of this team continually getting chumps, and making hair brained decisions.

I'm tired of having inconsistent, INT throwing QB's, tired of a defense that never performs, tired of missing the playoffs, and basically just tired of being tired.

Orton is clearly not the answer, and if I can see that bright as day, then surely McDaniels must see it too?

[Tned]

no, I'm talking about the poor performance, the consistently terrible throws, and what not.

I guess you forgot what the objective was, which was winning. If McDaniels can tailor an offense to allow Orton to lead the team to wins, then that is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

Any good coach tailors their schemes to their players talent. If you have a fast running back, you are going to run sweeps and stretch plays to get him outside, if you have a bruiser, you re probably going to go for more of a three yards and cloud of dust power run up the middle.

Quite often, us fans let our biases about players clowd the ultimate goal, which is winning, and the coaches job is to win with the players he has.

[Tned]

no, im just tired of losing, tired of this team continually getting chumps, and making hair brained decisions.

I'm tired of having inconsistent, INT throwing QB's, tired of a defense that never performs, tired of missing the playoffs, and basically just tired of being tired.

Orton is clearly not the answer, and if I can see that bright as day, then surely McDaniels must see it too?

Ok, your McDaniels, it's clear as day. How do you fix the problem? Clearly, you can also see it's clear as day that Brandster isn't the answer. So, what is 'your' solution?

[Scarface]

Brandstater is a seventh round rookie who is struggling to take snaps let alone run an offense that requires you to make line calls against NFL defenses. They have a host of players to evaluate: Receivers, tight ends, running backs and offensive linemen. They need a QB in the game who can call the plays efficiently so the rest of the players can be evaluated. Since Brandstater is a project, they aren't going to waste reps on him fumbling around at the expense of seeing the other players who will actually play this year perform.

Only he wouldn't be making line calls against NFL defenses. Most of the guys playing in the 4th quarter won't even make the final NFL roster.

I think the real reason he didn't play is that he wants to get Simms and Orton as much work as possible to get them acclimated to the new offense they're in.

[Lonestar]

Only he wouldn't be making line calls against NFL defenses. Most of the guys playing in the 4th quarter won't even make the final NFL roster.

I think the real reason he didn't play is that he wants to get Simms and Orton as much work as possible to get them acclimated to the new offense they're in.


also seeing and adjusting to eh defenses they see at the LOS..

With a true spread offense there is always going to be an open man to throw to if they see the mismatch..

Like SFO did on both of their touchdowns..

trying to crucify the QB day one is nuts.. or flat hate because he is not jay.. take your pick depending on the poster..

AS PNB said these games are paid practice.. or a scrimage against someone other than your own teammates..

[broncohead]

no, im just tired of losing, tired of this team continually getting chumps, and making hair brained decisions.

I'm tired of having inconsistent, INT throwing QB's, tired of a defense that never performs, tired of missing the playoffs, and basically just tired of being tired.

Orton is clearly not the answer, and if I can see that bright as day, then surely McDaniels must see it too?

Your judging this all off of one preseason game. We still have 3 to go.

[Overtime]

Your judging this all off of one preseason game. We still have 3 to go.

sorry I just don't see Orton working out. maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I just dont see this guy being a long term solution and being a quality QB.

you can polish a turd any which way possible, but at the end of the day, a turd is still a turd, polished or not.

[MOtorboat]

maybe I'm jumping the gun here

You are. He's played one preseason game.

[Lonestar]

sorry I just don't see Orton working out. maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I just dont see this guy being a long term solution and being a quality QB.

you can polish a turd any which way possible, but at the end of the day, a turd is still a turd, polished or not.


well you do not like Moreno or Orton who do you like on this team?

[Tned]

you can polish a turd any which way possible, but at the end of the day, a turd is still a turd, polished or not.

I love the way people think they know more than professionals in the NFL -- the guys paid millions to evaluate talent, put the best team on the field and win games. Then, when they win, they are criticized for winning with polished turds or smoke and mirrors.

[MOtorboat]

I love the way people think they know more than professionals in the NFL -- the guys paid millions to evaluate talent, put the best team on the field and win games. Then, when they win, they are criticized for winning with polished turds or smoke and mirrors.

I think some people really forget how good this organization has been in the last 20 years...

[Lonestar]

I love the way people think they know more than professionals in the NFL -- the guys paid millions to evaluate talent, put the best team on the field and win games. Then, when they win, they are criticized for winning with polished turds or smoke and mirrors.


You know I have used the smoke and mirrors several times in the past..

And it was not necessarily meant as a negative.. like you seem to be thinking it was..

mike was a mastermind on offense and he designed the offense to fit the players for the most part while he was here.. that is what I meant as smoke and mirrors not having the greatest talent and making it work and be successful..

no one in the NFL would have taken and molded our OLINE that past say 10 years.. and many of them would have never played on any other team coming out of college had they not went through our apprentice program.. we all know that.. same applies to most of the RB's we have had here save perhaps Poortis he would have been taken by someone later in the draft..

But the rest of them!!! what were the odds of them making it in say SAN or MIA..

his defensive prowess sucked and I believe he is the root of all evil when it came to player acquisition.. but as a OC very few if any better..


He won a lot of games considering the level of talent on this team he should not have won.. that is what I meant by smoke and mirrors..

[Overtime]

I think some people really forget how good this organization has been in the last 20 years...

with the exception of 2005, and 2003? we haven't been all that great since our Super Bowl wins.

now the last 20 years overall, yes we've been pretty good, but since the Super Bowl years we haven't had much to talk about.

i'm just sick of the mediocrity. Many other teams have a big name QB, and a stout defense, why can't we?

I'm tired of the countless merry go round at QB.

Grieseball, Jarious Jackson, Plummer, Ramsey, Brister, Van Pelt, Cutler, now Orton and Simms.

I can't fathom for the life of me whatever possessed McDaniels to deal Cutler for Orton...McDaniels musta been drunk or high, or both.

we mighta been better off getting Kevin O'Connell. If he wanted Cassell so bad, why didn't he just get him anyways? but Orton??? I mean that's like signing Trent Dilfer, or worse, that's like signing Brody Croyle.

Why can't we have a Big Ben Roethlisberger, or a Donovan McNabb, or a Peyton Manning, or a Tom Brady?

why the hell are we so damn dysfunctional as of late?

[MOtorboat]

Three starting quarterbacks in 9 years isn't necessarily dysfunctional, by any means. Listing the backup quarterbacks to prove a merry-go-round is kind of a weak argument, really.

Cutler keeps proving he's not a winner. He's already throwing people under the bus in Chicago, it appears...Orton had a bad game, and guess what, it didn't mean anything.

You're over-reacting. Badly.

[Tned]

I think some people really forget how good this organization has been in the last 20 years...

Hence the reason I have said in the past, and will say again, Broncos fans have been VERY spoiled the last two decades plus. What has it been, something like four losing seasons in the last 25 years and a few .500 seasons, or something like that.

Broncos fans believe they have some kind of divine birth right to to have winning seasons, playoff berths and SB appearances, which applies to them only, and not the other 31 teams in the league.

[Lonestar]

I think some people really forget how good this organization has been in the last 20 years...

I think you really mean to say when he had quality players he had during the earlier years he built a lot of momentum and as they retired or moved on we coasted for quite a few years..

Pat has always provided the funds and backing for mike to have the best.. but IMHO mike failed miserably as a GM and caused the backslide into what we had the past few years a putrid coaching staff (save a couple) and really poor drafting cause a talent drain to the point of where we now might have 35 new players on a staff of 53 come the start of the season..

not counting on all the new coaches that might actually be able to coach..

[Lonestar]

Hence the reason I have said in the past, and will say again, Broncos fans have been VERY spoiled the last two decades plus. What has it been, something like four losing seasons in the last 25 years and a few .500 seasons, or something like that.

Broncos fans believe they have some kind of divine birth right to to have winning seasons, playoff berths and SB appearances, which applies to them only, and not the other 31 teams in the league.


yes Pat taught us how to expect more than we had the first 25 years.. and we got spoiled.. lets hope this latest change will indeed bring us back to what we expect again..

[Lonestar]

Three starting quarterbacks in 9 years isn't necessarily dysfunctional, by any means. Listing the backup quarterbacks to prove a merry-go-round is kind of a weak argument, really.

Cutler keeps proving he's not a winner. He's already throwing people under the bus in Chicago, it appears...Orton had a bad game, and guess what, it didn't mean anything.

You're over-reacting. Badly.


Also I do not remember Orton throwing anyone under th bus like jay has..

I like that Jake never did that either.. whether it was the WR or TE making a bad play he always said I need to improve..

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I can't fathom for the life of me whatever possessed McDaniels to deal Cutler for Orton...McDaniels musta been drunk or high, or both.

There have been many articles which have stated that McD wanted to sit down with Cutler. There have also been many articles that said it was Bowlen who gave the go ahead to trade Cutler - WHY - because Cutler did NOT feel he owed the owner of the Broncos a phone call.

Here is Bowlen's take on it - along with other discussion:

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels...spx?ID=1121617

[BroncoWave]

with the exception of 2005, and 2003? we haven't been all that great since our Super Bowl wins.

now the last 20 years overall, yes we've been pretty good, but since the Super Bowl years we haven't had much to talk about.

Hence, we got rid of Shanny and started in a new direction.


i'm just sick of the mediocrity. Many other teams have a big name QB, and a stout defense, why can't we?

There are also many other teams who pick in the top 10 every year. It could always be worse.


I'm tired of the countless merry go round at QB.

Grieseball, Jarious Jackson, Plummer, Ramsey, Brister, Van Pelt, Cutler, now Orton and Simms.

Like MO said, using backup QB's to solidify your argument is about as weak as it gets. Get real.


I can't fathom for the life of me whatever possessed McDaniels to deal Cutler for Orton...McDaniels musta been drunk or high, or both.

Please drop this ignorant BS. We got much more than Orton back in that deal and you know it.


we mighta been better off getting Kevin O'Connell. If he wanted Cassell so bad, why didn't he just get him anyways? but Orton??? I mean that's like signing Trent Dilfer, or worse, that's like signing Brody Croyle.

:lol: this isn't even worth justifying with an intelligent response.


Why can't we have a Big Ben Roethlisberger, or a Donovan McNabb, or a Peyton Manning, or a Tom Brady?

If those types of players were so easy to get every team would have one. You have to be one of the most impatient fans ever.

[Tned]

yes Pat taught us how to expect more than we had the first 25 years.. and we got spoiled.. lets hope this latest change will indeed bring us back to what we expect again..

Even as 'bad' as the last three years have been, probably two thirds of NFL fans would have liked to have those three years as their 'worst' three year stretch in the last 25 years.

[Lonestar]

Even as 'bad' as the last three years have been, probably two thirds of NFL fans would have liked to have those three years as their 'worst' three year stretch in the last 25 years.


I will not disagree with that.. but they are mostly loser franchises also.. and in most cases would have had 5-7 coaches in that 20 year time frame also..

Pat brought in quality personnel to run his franchise and allowed them a pretty free hand in doing so.. even after several good years some folks go stale or lose the edge..

I suspect we all saw that happens 3-4 years ago..

[Overtime]

Three starting quarterbacks in 9 years isn't necessarily dysfunctional, by any means. Listing the backup quarterbacks to prove a merry-go-round is kind of a weak argument, really.

Cutler keeps proving he's not a winner. He's already throwing people under the bus in Chicago, it appears...Orton had a bad game, and guess what, it didn't mean anything.

You're over-reacting. Badly.

you seem to forget that Jarious Jackson was a starter at one point, Brister started for us a few times.

We had an opportunity to pick up Byron Leftwhich who I think would have been eons better than Kyle Orton, and we didn't.

[Tned]

I will not disagree with that.. but they are mostly loser franchises also.. and in most cases would have had 5-7 coaches in that 20 year time frame also..

Pat brought in quality personnel to run his franchise and allowed them a pretty free hand in doing so.. even after several good years some folks go stale or lose the edge..

I suspect we all saw that happens 3-4 years ago..

You call them 'loser' franchises, I call them 'typical' NFL franchises. You are just one of the MANY Broncos' fans with no perspective or who has lost perspective. Even though you lived through the early years, which were tough years, you have become spoiled, lost perspective. You aren't alone.

You can call two thirds or more of the NFL teams 'loser' franchises, but that's simply not the case, they are 'typical' franchises that go through typical NFL winning/losing cycles. The Broncos have avoided that for the last 25 years, with no back to back losing seasons during that 25 year stretch. How many other teams can boast that? It has spoiled us Broncos fans and caused us to lose touch with reality.

[MOtorboat]

you seem to forget that Jarious Jackson was a starter at one point, Brister started for us a few times.

One game, or two doesn't count. As far as quarterback, this team has been fairly stable. With that thinking, I sure do miss the Shawn Moore days...:rolleyes:


We had an opportunity to pick up Byron Leftwhich who I think would have been eons better than Kyle Orton, and we didn't.

I am just going to have to disagree with you, considering Leftwich is probably going to be sitting behind a rookie, until said rookie proves he's not that good (and Josh Freeman will)...

[BroncoWave]

you seem to forget that Jarious Jackson was a starter at one point, Brister started for us a few times.

We had an opportunity to pick up Byron Leftwhich who I think would have been eons better than Kyle Orton, and we didn't.

Jackson started ONE game in week 17 of a season when we had already sealed up our playoff spot. He threw 22 passes in his entire career. How dumb do you think we are?

Jarious Jackson was never our starting QB no matter how you want to spin it.

As for Brister, that was right after Elway retired. What did you expect, for us to replace Elway with another Hall of Famer right off the bat? If so you have the most unrealistic expectations ever.

In this supposed QB "down time" you talk about, we have had 3 QB's voted to the Pro Bowl or as the first alternate. Many teams would kill for that kind of QB play in a 10 year span.

[Lonestar]

you seem to forget that Jarious Jackson was a starter at one point, Brister started for us a few times.

We had an opportunity to pick up Byron Leftwhich who I think would have been eons better than Kyle Orton, and we didn't.


last time Brister played in DEN was 1999 and started NO games..

http://www.nfl.com/players/bubbybrister/profile?id=BRI521505

jackson did start one game in 2003 was 4-9 for 44 yards and an 18.5 rating..

http://www.nfl.com/players/bubbybrister/profile?id=BRI521505

and there you go thinking again..

[Lonestar]

You call them 'loser' franchises, I call them 'typical' NFL franchises. You are just one of the MANY Broncos' fans with no perspective or who has lost perspective. Even though you lived through the early years, which were tough years, you have become spoiled, lost perspective. You aren't alone.

You can call two thirds or more of the NFL teams 'loser' franchises, but that's simply not the case, they are 'typical' franchises that go through typical NFL winning/losing cycles. The Broncos have avoided that for the last 25 years, with no back to back losing seasons during that 25 year stretch. How many other teams can boast that? It has spoiled us Broncos fans and caused us to lose touch with reality.



if they have not won consistently they are losers how can you not see that .. are they average on your scale well fine by me but I guess that is the difference between you and me..

we have been blessed the past 25 years to have an owner that has paid good money to put quality on the field.

Just as Robert Craft has done..
the owners Rooney in PIT..
what Daniel Snyder is trying to do as well as Jerry Jones..

there is a cycle and we have been fortunate to avoid it for the most part.

but that does not mean that during the last part of mike term here he was putting out a quality product.. it simple meant his team could out score the other one and yes that means winning.. But how many of those "winners were you really proud of since the super bowl years..

Just how many times did our team fail in the Red zone since the HOF players retired.. how many years did we hear the same promises of one of the top things to improve was red zone scoring..

if it were not for game winning kick from 35+ yards out by Jason just how long would mike have lasted..

Yes I know that is part of the game.. but perhaps I have higher standards than some have..

define in your own minds what you want to see squeaky winning or beat their brains in..

I'll take the later..

when there is submission like we have been doing the past few years to SAN..

[Tned]

if they have not won consistently they are losers how can you not see that .. are they average on your scale well fine by me but I guess that is the difference between you and me..

we have been blessed the past 25 years to have an owner that has paid good money to put quality on the field.

Just as Robert Craft has done..
the owners Rooney in PIT..
what Daniel Snyder is trying to do as well as Jerry Jones..

there is a cycle and we have been fortunate to avoid it for the most part.

but that does not mean that during the last part of mike term here he was putting out a quality product.. it simple meant his team could out score the other one and yes that means winning.. But how many of those "winners were you really proud of since the super bowl years..

Just how many times did our team fail in the Red zone since the HOF players retired.. how many years did we hear the same promises of one of the top things to improve was red zone scoring..

if it were not for game winning kick from 35+ yards out by Jason just how long would mike have lasted..

Yes I know that is part of the game.. but perhaps I have higher standards than some have..

define in your own minds what you want to see squeaky winning or beat their brains in..

I'll take the later..

when there is submission like we have been doing the past few years to SAN..

Let me try and clear up what you "don't see".

We were blessed to have John Elway carry teams beyond their real potential.

We were blessed to have a head coach the last 15 years that could 'rebuild' a roster on the fly.

You talk about Pitt, you talk about NE.

New England in the first half of the '90s had 6 or fewer wins in a 6 out of 7 season stretch. Yes, that is a 'typical' NFL franchise, one that goes through up periods and down periods.

Twice in the last 25 years, Pitt has had six season stretches where half of them were losing seasons. Again, 'typical' of the cyclical nature of the NFL that Denver has avoided.

First, Denver avoided it because of a player named John Elway who had a crap load of come back wins and allowed Denver to win a lot of games they had no business winning.

Then, Denver avoided those typical NFL cycles, because Shanahan managed to rebuild a roster roughly three times without ever having back to back losing seasons, something few coaches/GM's have ever accomplished.

You want to talk down to me and insinuate I simply have low standards, fine. However, then I will suggest you get in touch with reality, because clearly you are not when it comes to your expectations of an NFL franchise.

Newsflash, winning seasons are not some kind of birthright granted to Denver fans, we have been damn lucky to experience no down times in the last 25 years.

[Lonestar]

Let me try and clear up what you "don't see".

We were blessed to have John Elway carry teams beyond their real potential.

We were blessed to have a head coach the last 15 years that could 'rebuild' a roster on the fly.

You talk about Pitt, you talk about NE.

New England in the first half of the '90s had 6 or fewer wins in a 6 out of 7 season stretch. Yes, that is a 'typical' NFL franchise, one that goes through up periods and down periods.

Twice in the last 25 years, Pitt has had six season stretches where half of them were losing seasons. Again, 'typical' of the cyclical nature of the NFL that Denver has avoided.

First, Denver avoided it because of a player named John Elway who had a crap load of come back wins and allowed Denver to win a lot of games they had no business winning.

Then, Denver avoided those typical NFL cycles, because Shanahan managed to rebuild a roster roughly three times without ever having back to back losing seasons, something few coaches/GM's have ever accomplished.

You want to talk down to me and insinuate I simply have low standards, fine. However, then I will suggest you get in touch with reality, because clearly you are not when it comes to your expectations of an NFL franchise.

Newsflash, winning seasons are not some kind of birthright granted to Denver fans, we have been damn lucky to experience no down times in the last 25 years.



yes those teams have had down years but I'll guess that if you look back to when Robert Craft bought the team they have been pretty consistent winners.. over the billion years that the Rooney's owned the steelers there have been a few years here and there with down seasons..

But both of these owners in particular have done smart things they have brought in franchise Coaches and GM's.. I suspect the same thing applies to the Ravens.. for the most part they have an excellent GM..and are working on that franchise coach..

It is not a birthright to have a winning team never said it was.. But Pat has done everything he can to bring one to DEN and the fans have as you said spoiled.. nothing wrong with having a wining tradition nothing wrong with having higher standards than say CLE or CIN..

AS for your standards if you took it personal I'm sorry I was using the you as a generic term.. I'll try to use Y'all in the future..

[Tned]

yes those teams have had down years but I'll guess that if you look back to when Robert Craft bought the team they have been pretty consistent winners.. over the billion years that the Rooney's owned the steelers there have been a few years here and there with down seasons..

But both of these owners in particular have done smart things they have brought in franchise Coaches and GM's.. I suspect the same thing applies to the Ravens.. for the most part they have an excellent GM..and are working on that franchise coach..

It is not a birthright to have a winning team never said it was.. But Pat has done everything he can to bring one to DEN and the fans have as you said spoiled.. nothing wrong with having a wining tradition nothing wrong with having higher standards than say CLE or CIN..

AS for your standards if you took it personal I'm sorry I was using the you as a generic term.. I'll try to use Y'all in the future..

Ok, I'm done trying to apply reason wehre it isn't wanted. You're right, all those other franchises are just losers, except for the God granted golden franchise of the Broncos.

I give up, I agree, the last 10 years have been horrible, one of the worse in the league. Even though we only had two losing seasons, because we are Denver, that is like 8 losing seasons for all other franchises.