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Northman
08-14-2009, 11:59 PM
Ill start with the good:

1)Defense and defensive scheme looked much better. We definitely got more pressure on the Qb and got 4 sacks in the process (remainder of game pending).

2)Players that absolutely shined:

Peyton Hillis
Knowshon Moreno
Eddie Royal
Alphonso Smith
Kenny McKinley

Now, for the bad:

Qb's:
Orton stunk it up big time no doubt about it. What makes it worse is that this is using vanilla offenses and defenses. The first 2 were absolute bad reads and forcing the ball where it shouldnt be going. The 3rd was a duck and certainly raises the suspicions about Orton's supposed arm strength. Couldnt have turned out worse for Kyle when he really needed to show he can be counted on to take care of the ball. Call it second guessing or whatever he has a lot of work to do if he is this far behind with the system. But i dont put all the blame on him and ill get to that in a minute.

Simms looked pretty good with the second and third stringers. Definitely showed more mobility than Orton but i still wonder about his frailty should he ever get leveled by a defender. But it would seem on the surface that if there is a need for a play to be made outside of the pocket with a Qb who can at least get it down the field Simms would be able to pull it off better than Orton. But its one game so we will see how it goes.

Playcalling:
What was different? We saw the same kind of playcalling last year with Shanahan with a emphasis on pass more than run EXCEPT when Simms first came in where he ran and setup the pass and it worked. Go figure. I hope McD learned from tonight that he cant leave his starting QB out to dry by making him try and be Jay Cutler and carry this team through the air. You have running backs so use them. I dont care if you have to pound it with all 10 of them, do it. You have to make the defense fear the run before you can start making plays down the field. You dont have the Qb who can carry your team when the chips are down so you have to rely on all the other weapons that are there for you.


This isnt a meltdown of any kind nor do i care to have Jay Cutler back. But there is one guy who will be responsible for how this team does this year and that would be McDaniels. I said from the beginning that McD can make any changes he wants so as long as this team wins again. Im still expecting a 9-7 record this year as he is the one that felt he needed a change at the Qb position and thus allowing a situation to unfold that we couldnt recover from. Good luck McD, your going to need it.

NameUsedBefore
08-15-2009, 12:06 AM
I hope the timeouts were just preseason garbage. That one before the end of the first half was dumb particularly when you have a bad defense. The one after San Fran scored but before they kicked the PAT had me scratching my head.

Kaylore
08-15-2009, 12:09 AM
Offense: Pretty good outside of Orton and some dropsies.

Defense: Excellent. 3 Turnovers and we were in the game the whole game. Very Patriots-eque

Special Teams: HOLY CRAP WE HAVE SPECIAL TEAMS!!!!!

For all the systems being overhauled, they look much better for their first preseason game than I expected. If we lose road games by one point this year It'll be hard to complain.

titan
08-15-2009, 12:09 AM
Just hoping Moreno's injury isn't serious - he's supposed to have an MRI on his knee tomorrow.

BroncoWave
08-15-2009, 12:11 AM
I posted this in the game thread and will here too:

There were SOME positives.

Hillis is still a stud.
Moreno is a stud if he stays healthy.
Smith and McKinley were both great on kick returns.
The run defense was MUCH better than last season. Actual technically sound tackles instead of pathetic arm tackle attempts.
We had a pretty nice pass rush. 4 sacks that I recall.
Royal and Stoke were both great, and when Marshall gets back our passing game should improve on what happened tonight.
Simms was good and looks to have made this QB race a battle again.

Northman
08-15-2009, 12:11 AM
Offense: Pretty good outside of Orton and some dropsies.

Defense: Excellent. 3 Turnovers and we were in the game the whole game. Very Patriots-eque

Special Teams: HOLY CRAP WE HAVE SPECIAL TEAMS!!!!!

For all the systems being overhauled, they look much better for their first preseason game than I expected. If we lose road games by one point this year It'll be hard to complain.


Yea, i forgot about the ST's. MUCH BETTER. :beer:

Hawgdriver
08-15-2009, 12:13 AM
Offense: Pretty good outside of Orton and some dropsies.

Defense: Excellent. 3 Turnovers and we were in the game the whole game. Very Patriots-eque

Special Teams: HOLY CRAP WE HAVE SPECIAL TEAMS!!!!!

For all the systems being overhauled, they look much better for their first preseason game than I expected. If we lose road games by one point this year It'll be hard to complain.

How bad is the Orton/QB situation, I want your opinion. I'm not terribly worried but I don't have experience like you.

Superchop 7
08-15-2009, 12:16 AM
Loaded at WR

Bad Intentions
08-15-2009, 12:27 AM
Moreno left after the third INT though it looked like the injury occurred after his 2nd run. He ran again for a nice little gain and was able to move the pile. He than ran a wheel route and stopped/slowed favoring his right leg. Orton threw his 2nd INT shortly after. Then on the following drive, Knowshon threw the block that was flagged as a chop block on the 3rd INT. He jumped up to make a play on the return and was pushed down and rolled (not really on his knee, but more on his hip... pretty sure the injury was prior to this play). When he got up he was really favoring his right knee and basically hopped to the sideline. A few tv timeouts later he was heading back to the locker room for an MRI. The news was that Greek checked his knee with the later/bilateral force and Moreno turned down ice for his knee before heading to the locker room. He looked like he was trying to jog but was still favoring his knee. The only thing that worries me is the memory of Olandis Gary playing against the Rams for a full half on a torn ACL. But, it is favorable that he was able to run after the injury seemingly occurred and on one run he ran with authority.

Hoping that it's a bruise or a sprain as it is currently being diagnosed. MRI coming tomorrow and chances are that we won't know the truth with McD's policy regarding injuries. Guess we'll know when we play Cincy.

Bad Intentions
08-15-2009, 12:33 AM
11:32 ET
Broncos RB Knowshon Moreno hurt his right knee in the second quarter and Denver coach Josh McDaniels is facing scrutiny that he might have left him in for a play after the injury.

West
08-15-2009, 12:42 AM
Good points everyone.


The Good:

Knowshon will be a crowd favorite real quick with his running style. Hope he's fine.

McDaniels is looking real smart for trading up for Alphonso Smith. That was a GREAT play on that deep ball.

The D looked a lot better than I expected. Good penetration and Dumervil is gonna be a terror coming off the edge.

Hillis ran hard but seemed to bounce it to the outside too much, even when there was nothing outside. Use your 250 lb body and get the tough yards.

The Bad:

Orton. He couldn't hit the broad side of the barn tonight. I didn't think his 1st pick could get much worse but the 3rd one was probably one of the worst passes i've ever seen. Simms looked head and shoulders better. And we're in some deep shit if Chris Simms is going to be our QB. Let alone Orton.

Missed Assignments (I know its preseason). The 2 passing TDs to Britt Miller were pretty awful.




I'm probably missing some things but thats all that really stood out for right now.

Reidman
08-15-2009, 12:44 AM
I see what McDaniels is doing with the offense. Dinkin and dunkin with 7-10 yd routes, screen passes. Game almost put me to sleep the first half but it appeared effective, minus the interceptions of course...also liked how he mixed things up, more so with Simms in there...

I think Moreno is going to be a beast. Hillis was a stud as expected....:beer:

Bad Intentions
08-15-2009, 12:47 AM
You folks better not get your hopes up on Moreno. I think he's done for they year. Just a gut feeling (nightmare worry).

West
08-15-2009, 12:52 AM
You folks better not get your hopes up on Moreno. I think he's done for they year. Just a gut feeling (nightmare worry).

:yardog:

He didn't even have a limp going into the locker room. You need to calm down.

broncohead
08-15-2009, 12:54 AM
:yardog:

He didn't even have a limp going into the locker room. You need to calm down.

He did a little on the field but looked like something he could walk off. But I also understand that we shouldn't take any chances.

Devilspawn
08-15-2009, 12:55 AM
I see what McDaniels is doing with the offense. Dinkin and dunkin with 7-10 yd routes, screen passes. Game almost put me to sleep the first half but it appeared effective, minus the interceptions of course...also liked how he mixed things up, more so with Simms in there...
You know who also put me to sleep with his playcalling? Gruden. When I woke up, we were in the Conference Championship. Take it for what it's worth.

West
08-15-2009, 12:56 AM
He did a little on the field but looked like something he could walk off. But I also understand that we shouldn't take any chances.

I agree. Its the pre-season. He'll be back by the start of the season at the very least. Knowing Knowshon's attitude.. He'll wanna play the next game.

Tned
08-15-2009, 01:11 AM
I'll give my thoughts in a sec, catching up on the news in a few spots, but this was a tweet from Vic Lombardi:


@VicLombardi on the Broncos team bus...McDaniels looking forlorn.

and


@YahooSports NFL Kyle Orton was bad for Broncs, but I noticed the limited offense the most. Dinking/dunking and INTs are worrisome.

Tned
08-15-2009, 03:04 AM
Ok, random thoughts.

Offense:

With the exception of the three INTs and one near INT to Gaffney, I thought Orton looked pretty good. Now, unfortunately, three iNTs in a half is a bit 'except'. While it's hard to tell watching on TV, especially live, without rewinding the DVR, it appeared Orton typically locked on to his receiver early and didn't make progressions. Also, on several plays he and Stokely either didn't appear in sync, or Stokely was failing to get seperation from the DB.

In general, I thought the offense did a very good job of moving the ball.

Didn't get anywhere near long enough view of Moreno, and hope his injury isn't serious. What we did see of him, had me come away from the game with this. I understand what people said about the fact that while he might not have the fastest top gear, he gets to his top gear VERY fast. On a couple of his runs, you could really see his burst and how quickly he accelerates. He also showed some power on a run that by all rights should have been no gain and he pushed the pile.

Like last year, Hillis proved to be one of, if not the most consitant back. Granted most of his runs were against 2nd team defenders, but he showed both power and vision, and a decent burst. I still believe it is very likely that in the end Moreno and Hillis split carries, even though the RB rotation in game one wouldn't indicate that will happen.

Jordan and Buckhalter. I didn't come away too impressed. They each had a couple decent runs, but more times that not, they didn't seem to find the holes nor look very explosive.

The O-line looked pretty good in pass protection and run blocking, they and the tight ends didn't really do much good or bad that I remember.

Defense:

Like the offense, some good, some bad.

On the bad side, they gave up a couple big pass plays to Vernon Davis and at least one longish run in the first series. In the first couples series they came off a little like a 'gambling' defense, either they were going to get to the QB or allow a solid gain by SF. In later series, they seemed a little more stingy.

On the good side, we saw three sacks from the first teamers, two from the OLB spots, and one from an end. Later, Baker had a nice power move to get into the backfield and get a sack. He was playing against second or third teamers, but it was encouraging none the less.

The first team seemed to do a fairly good job of tackling, but the second team missed quite a few tackles. Given the number of tackling and drills I read about aimed at improving fundamentals, I was surprised to see the missed tackles, even if it was the 2nd and 3rd string guys.

Special Teams:
Mixed bag. At least one short kick. Mostly good coverage, and a couple decent returns. It was enough to be encouraged.

Overall:
While Ortons INTs tainted the game, overall, I think there is plenty to be encouraged about.

The offense moved the ball with relative ease, although the ball was turned over before scoring.

The defense was getting pressure on the QB, something that has happened in quite some time.

Hawgdriver
08-15-2009, 03:21 AM
Good comments T.

While the attention is on the 'QB controversy', I'm starting to think this season will depend more on the health and performance of Moreno.

Overtime
08-15-2009, 08:20 AM
2)Players that absolutely shined:

Knowshon Moreno


do what? he shined? 3 attempts for 18 yards is shining? r u kidding me???

sorry but that's not shining.

had he shined, he'd have had like 5 carries for 80 yards or something...that's shining.

his performance was typical of a pre-season game and nothing more.

he neither shined nor disappointed....well until he got injured......:rolleyes:

Rick
08-15-2009, 08:45 AM
he'll have 10 carries for 21 yards, which will be a premonition of how his career will turn out in Denver, because he'll be the biggest bust since Kansas City drafted Greg Hill, and a wasted draft pick, and a waste of however many million dollars.

he didn't earn the nickname NO-SHOW MORENO by doing anything spectacular that's for sure.

so ya, there ya have it.


Well considering he had just 3 less yards in 7 less caries then you predicted for 3.9yards MORE per carry than you predicted...never mind nothing more I need to say, you said it all.

Overtime
08-15-2009, 08:55 AM
Well considering he had just 3 less yards in 7 less caries then you predicted for 3.9yards MORE per carry than you predicted...never mind nothing more I need to say, you said it all.

oh come on now, i was only 7 carries, and 3 yards off dammit.

:D

Kaylore
08-15-2009, 08:57 AM
How bad is the Orton/QB situation, I want your opinion. I'm not terribly worried but I don't have experience like you.

Well it's a new system and it was the first preseason game. You want to make mistakes early and that's what preseason is for. It's definitely too early to jump off a cliff, but that hasn't stopped Broncos fans before. There are concerns about them that are legitimate.

He threw three of them in one half. He threw two of them in scoring position, and the other backed up in our own endzone. Those are the two worst places to throw interceptions. He looked sharp to that point, so I think patience is required. However those kind of mistakes will not be tolerated.

I'm also beginning to worry why when the lights are on and Bronco Country is watching he has his worst games. That's not a good sign.

Let's see how he bounces back and plays at home. He needs more time to learn this offense and McDaniels gets time to find "his" team.

Dean
08-15-2009, 09:10 AM
Good points everyone.


The Good:

Knowshon will be a crowd favorite real quick with his running style. Hope he's fine.

He does have quick feet and good vision. Now, let's hope for no serious problems.


McDaniels is looking real smart for trading up for Alphonso Smith. That was a GREAT play on that deep ball.

I wasn't impressed. Smith was beat and had the ball not been underthrown the pass was a TD. I thought he kept players on the field too long but that's just me. Gambling for a two point PAT and reliance on the pass in a pre-season game is okay but I would hope it doesn't carry over into the season.


The D looked a lot better than I expected. Good penetration and Dumervil is gonna be a terror coming off the edge.

They exceeded my expectations as well. I liked the pressure. However, McBean was continually driven off the LOS and Fields seldom required a double team. We still gave up too many third down plays later in the game. What were they- 14 for 18 passing? Anyway, I expected more in that area.


Hillis ran hard but seemed to bounce it to the outside too much, even when there was nothing outside. Use your 250 lb body and get the tough yards.

He sure looks much better than third or fourth string on the depth chart. What's up with that?


The Bad:

Orton. He couldn't hit the broad side of the barn tonight. I didn't think his 1st pick could get much worse but the 3rd one was probably one of the worst passes i've ever seen. Simms looked head and shoulders better. And we're in some deep shit if Chris Simms is going to be our QB. Let alone Orton.

Either we as a team run the ball or we are in trouble.


Missed Assignments (I know its preseason). The 2 passing TDs to Britt Miller were pretty awful.

I thought that our receiver's blocking was much weaker than normal.





I'm probably missing some things but thats all that really stood out for right now.

Lots of work is ahead for the entire team. I was most surprised by Orton's performance. I expected 5 to 10 yard passes while always playing within his abilities. I thought that our O-line would be exceptional. They were good but not what they were last year IMO.


P.S. Coincidentally, Merril Hoge the day before yesterday said that he didn't know if Knowshon could take the pounding. I hope that he is wrong.

gobroncsnv
08-15-2009, 09:28 AM
Overall:
While Ortons INTs tainted the game, overall, I think there is plenty to be encouraged about.

The offense moved the ball with relative ease, although the ball was turned over before scoring.

The defense was getting pressure on the QB, something that has happened in quite some time.

Your second point reminds me of our offense last year.

As far as the D getting pressure, it WAS good to see the front 7 getting pressure and sacks. Was kind of interesting though, to hear the 9r's commentators talking about the 3 second clock their qb's were supposed to release on. What I did like about the sacks is that the qb had no where to turn to get away. There just seemed to be more of an upfield push.

I liked Baker's bull rush as well. I think we'll be seeing more of him. It was against 2nd-3rders, so wouldn't mind seeing him run with the big dogs for a bit.

The long 3rd down completions have GOT to go, regarding our D. Hello 2005 AFC championship game.

On ST's, when we were receiving punts, it was pretty cool to see that the gunners were pretty well bottled up, and there was a bit of room for the returner to make some moves. This will be worth watching.

My overall opinion, we got some gellin' to do.

Northman
08-15-2009, 09:46 AM
do what? he shined? 3 attempts for 18 yards is shining? r u kidding me???

sorry but that's not shining.

had he shined, he'd have had like 5 carries for 80 yards or something...that's shining.

his performance was typical of a pre-season game and nothing more.

he neither shined nor disappointed....well until he got injured......:rolleyes:

From what i saw he far outplayed Jordan and Buckhalter. As Tned pointed out his burst into the lanes was excellent. Its not his fault that he got hurt before he could show more. But its ok, your entitled to your opinion. Sounds like your a Knowshon hater so i dont know how much stock to put into your take there. But considering what i saw compared to the others he shined.

Kaylore
08-15-2009, 09:58 AM
3 attempts for 18 yards is 6 yards per carry. That's better than most of the backs in preseason, so I agree that he shined.

NightTrainLayne
08-15-2009, 10:10 AM
I fell asleep last night soon after the game was over. . .. Was there or is there going to be a Post-game press conference? And if it hasn't happened yet, anyone know when it will take place?

Poet
08-15-2009, 10:10 AM
Not to be a bearer of bad news, but two last preseason Kenny Irons, one of my teams RB tore his ACL and was able to walk off the field with a minor limp. His NFL career is over.

I don't think that's the case for Moreno, and I HOPE it isn't, but it is possible that he did bang himself up real bad.

Tned
08-15-2009, 10:26 AM
I fell asleep last night soon after the game was over. . .. Was there or is there going to be a Post-game press conference? And if it hasn't happened yet, anyone know when it will take place?

I couldn't get KOA to stream, turned to ESPNnews and then fell asleep on the couch. Then moved to the laptop in bed, and kept dozing off. Took me over an hour of falling asleep, waking up and typing a little and then falling asleep, in order to post my 'observations' of the first game. :laugh; West might be right, I might be getting old. :sad:

So far, I haven't seen anything about a post game press conference.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-15-2009, 10:28 AM
Last night, I believe it was well into the 1st qtr, Gary Miller made the comment that at that point, every one of the Broncos' offensive plays were run from a different formation. To me, that does not indicate that we were running a vanilla offense, but rather that McD was putting in as many offensive plays as he could to see where the offense was, as a unit.

Also, sometime after Orton threw his 3rd interception, Reggie Rivers stated that Orton was solely responsible for one, and that on the other two, there was miss-communication between Orton and the receiver.

Taking into consideration - almost a 100% new coaching staff, new schemes on offense and defense, and many new players, I will look at last night as nothing more than seeing how well the players have progressed with every thing so far. Now, if the same mistakes are being made thru the rest of the preseason games, and flows over into the regular season - things will not be good.

Mike
08-15-2009, 10:30 AM
The team looked about how I expected them to look. Like a bunch of new players learning a new system and don't know what to expect from the guys around them. In other words, like preseason game 1 in rebuild mode.

I actually liked most of what I saw on defense. They certainly won't be top 10, but I think they will be respectable. I liked the physical play and aggressiveness. It was nice seeing the sacks and pressure. Easy to see that this defense will be much better than the last couple of years.

The offense, outside of Orton, looked solid. Orton looked serviceable until the INTs. I won't worry unless I see a repeat performance next week. Hillis is a stud. He should be the starter...especially if Moreno is out. Moreno looked good and will be a playmaker. Buckhalter looked ok. Jordan not so much. O-line looked good. WRs looked good.

Bottom line, Orton made a few bad decisions and it cost him. Outside of that, Denver as a team looked decent given the circumstances. I think that there is much to build on.

Northman
08-15-2009, 10:39 AM
Last night, I believe it was well into the 1st qtr, Gary Miller made the comment that at that point, every one of the Broncos' offensive plays were run from a different formation. To me, that does not indicate that we were running a vanilla offense, but rather that McD was putting in as many offensive plays as he could to see where the offense was, as a unit.

You do understand each coach has their own playbook correct? So although we saw some formations that were a little different than Shanahan's it was still pretty basic stuff. To my knowledge i have never seen a coach show his cards in the preseason let alone the first preseason game.


Also, sometime after Orton threw his 3rd interception, Reggie Rivers stated that Orton was solely responsible for one, and that on the other two, there was miss-communication between Orton and the receiver.

From what is saw, the first one was going to Graham in the back of the endzone but was a far riskier play than the guy who was on the outside. The second one could of been a miscommunication with Stokely and Orton or just a great play made by Bly. And the third was just a duck which had no velocity on it. Either way, INT's are INT's and are not what this team needs. We cant give a rash a shit to guys like Plummer and Cutler for throwing bad passes and then not give Orton the same criticism. Although this is just one game that was a VERY poor performance for a guy who is supposedly known for taking care of the ball.


Taking into consideration - almost a 100% new coaching staff, new schemes on offense and defense, and many new players, I will look at last night as nothing more than seeing how well the players have progressed with every thing so far. Now, if the same mistakes are being made thru the rest of the preseason games, and flows over into the regular season - things will not be good.

Agreed.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-15-2009, 10:45 AM
You do understand each coach has their own playbook correct? So although we saw some formations that were a little different than Shanahan's it was still pretty basic stuff. To my knowledge i have never seen a coach show his cards in the preseason let alone the first preseason game.

I do understand that, and I also understand that in practically every preseason game, the starting unit plays very little - does not play the entire first half.

Tned
08-15-2009, 10:45 AM
You do understand each coach has their own playbook correct? So although we saw some formations that were a little different than Shanahan's it was still pretty basic stuff. To my knowledge i have never seen a coach show his cards in the preseason let alone the first preseason game.


Well, depending on whether or not you take him at his word, McDaniels said that the Broncos would show a lot more in the preseason games than other teams do, because they had to use this time to learn the new schemes and get players comfortable. I paraphrased, but that's essentially what he said.

I think the point about the different formations, wasn't indicating different than Shanahan, but that McDaniels was trying to get as many formations and plays out there as possible, to get his players reps and familiar with the scheme.

Carol was simply saying with McDaniels comments about them not hiding their schemes as teams normally do, and the commentator talking about how each play was a different formation (compared to the plays called so far in the game), you can then assume that McDaniels was not calling a vanilla offense.

Northman
08-15-2009, 10:48 AM
Carol was simply saying with McDaniels comments about them not hiding their schemes as teams normally do, and the commentator talking about how each play was a different formation (compared to the plays called so far in the game), you can then assume that McDaniels was not calling a vanilla offense.

If thats truly the case than i can say that about every NFL team in the preseason. I really saw nothing different than ive seen over the course of 20 plus years of preseason football.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-15-2009, 11:16 AM
If thats truly the case than i can say that about every NFL team in the preseason. I really saw nothing different than ive seen over the course of 20 plus years of preseason football.

But the different formations may be new to the Broncos. Obviously McD has his own set of offensive plays, and I am sure they are not the same ones that Shanahan had. Even if some were the same, you now have a bunch of new players trying to mesh together.

BroncoWave
08-15-2009, 11:24 AM
do what? he shined? 3 attempts for 18 yards is shining? r u kidding me???

sorry but that's not shining.

had he shined, he'd have had like 5 carries for 80 yards or something...that's shining.

his performance was typical of a pre-season game and nothing more.

he neither shined nor disappointed....well until he got injured......:rolleyes:

Have you ever considered since you are the ONLY person on this board and among any reputable NFL scout that has this opinion? When you think one thing and EVERYONE ELSE thinks another, you are either a revolutionary or you are just flat wrong. And 99 times out of 100, option B usually seems to be the case.

BroncoWave
08-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Gambling for a two point PAT and reliance on the pass in a pre-season game is okay but I would hope it doesn't carry over into the season.

You must not watch too much preseason football because almost EVERY team does that. Not many teams want to play overtime in the preseason, and you will rarely if ever see a preseason game go into OT. I knew instantly when we scored that TD we were going to go for 2.

But honestly, how bad an idea is that anyway? The percentage of 2 point conversions working is roughly the same of the percentage of winning the toss and winning in OT so while it may seem like a stupid gamble, the odds actually play out the same. You just hardly ever see it in the regular season because coaches know they will be crucified by the irrational fans and media who don't really know what they are talking about.

Dean
08-15-2009, 11:45 AM
You must not watch too much preseason football because almost EVERY team does that.

You're right I probably only watch about 40% (conservatively) of them and no, they don't. Though it is more common.


Not many teams want to play overtime in the preseason, and you will rarely if ever see a preseason game go into OT. I knew instantly when we scored that TD we were going to go for 2.

Remember that we are the team whose coach thought we needed all the thime we could get to acclimate the players to the new schemes.


But honestly, how bad an idea is that anyway? The percentage of 2 point conversions working is roughly the same of the percentage of winning the toss and winning in OT so while it may seem like a stupid gamble, the odds actually play out the same. You just hardly ever see it in the regular season because coaches know they will be crucified by the irrational fans and media who don't really know what they are talking about.

Show me a link with those odds.:lol:

BroncoWave
08-15-2009, 11:52 AM
You're right I probably only watch about 40% (conservatively) of them and no, they don't. Though it is more common.



Remember that we are the team whose coach thought we needed all the thime we could get to acclimate the players to the new schemes.
Yes, but at that point you have a bunch of guys on the field who will rarely if ever see the field in the regular season.



Show me a link with those odds.:lol:

This link is from a few years ago but I can't imagine those percentages have changed much over the years.

http://www.docsports.com/two-point-conversion.html

From the article:

"Last year NFL teams converted 50 percent of their two point tries. This year so far in college percentages are up to 50 percent as well with 24 of 48 successful attempts."

And obviously, the winning percentage of NFL teams in overtime is 50% so according to these stats, your odds of winning the game by going for 2 are EXACTLY the same as winning it in OT. (Now obviously it also depends on how much time is left for the other team to score)

G_Money
08-15-2009, 12:05 PM
He misstated, but not by a lot:

http://amhpub.amherst.edu/deickman09/blog/2008/09/17/going-for-it/


For starters, the odds of making any given two-point conversion in the past few years has been right around 50%. I believe last year it was something around 49.5%, which, for all intents and purposes, might as well mean that any team that goes for it in this situation has a 50-50 shot at winning. Ironically, excatly the same odds of winning the OT coin toss.

The odds of winning an OT game are 3:2 in favor of the coin toss winner. So the odds of converting the 2-points are significantly better than your odds of winning OT if you lose the coin toss, but not as good as if you win it. Still, the odds of winning the coin toss AND winning the game (50% for one, 60% for the other) come out not a lot ahead. It's a viable proposition.

But I don't think I would consider it a strategy for the season as much as a desire not to stay longer in SF and risk injuring more people. Guys aren't ready for whole games yet, let alone overtimes. We don't go for a 2-point conversion, Simms or another RB gets hurt, and we crucify McDaniels even more.

He saw enough to fix for one week.

At least he should have - I sure did. *makes a face*

~G

Denver Native (Carol)
08-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I fell asleep last night soon after the game was over. . .. Was there or is there going to be a Post-game press conference? And if it hasn't happened yet, anyone know when it will take place?

Last night, I believe it was Vic who talked with McD on the field after the game, but I really don't remember what was said :D

Here is the only thing that I have found so far, which is Reggie Rivers in the locker room after the game, talking with Orton, and then Simms.

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=60786@kcnc.dayport.com

Also just found the following on KOA850: http://www.broncosradionetwork.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=Interviews.xml

McDaniels
Orton
Simms

Denver Native (Carol)
08-15-2009, 12:48 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/ Post game comments:

McDaniels, Orton, Simms, and post game report - McD, Hillis, Simms, Orton, and more

Tned
08-15-2009, 12:52 PM
A tweet from Darrell Reid this morning:


@Footz95 Thanx 4 All The Support Last Nite! Close Game But Ultimately The 9ers Made More Plays Than We Did. Its Still Preseason And We Will Improve..

dogfish
08-15-2009, 01:07 PM
simms puts a lot more zip on the short-to-intermediate throws than orton, and seems to have a little bit quicker release and better mobility inside the pocket. . . i'd like to see him get a chance to start one of the pre-season games and play with the number one offense against a number one defense. . . i thought they were pretty comparable players before either of them came here (solid backup/borderline starter types), and based on last night i think simms deserves a fair chance to compete for the starting job. . .

eddie royal is a badass. . . but our receiving group lacks a physical presence without brandon marshall. . .

in limited opportunities, i thought smith showed good patience, vision and instincts setting up his blocking in the return game. . . .

i think dumervil is going to make the transition successfully, and emerge as our best OLB this year. . .

it was fantastic seeing us get sacks, but IMO the run defense sstill looked a little soft right up the middle. . . i saw fields get blown off the ball by the double team on a few plays. . .

chris baker impressed, and not just on that sack. . . i thought he looked VERY quick for his size, and he was active in run pursuit, not giving up on plays that went away from him. . . i think he makes the roster this year, and carves out a spot in the rotation by mid-season or sooner. . .

spencer larsen is just a football player, and i think 3-4 ILB suits him well. . . . i'd feel fairly comfortable with him as a starter, and if he doesn't earn that job he can be a very reliable long term backup and special teamer who provides quality depth at the position. . . .








From what is saw, the first one was going to Graham in the back of the endzone but was a far riskier play than the guy who was on the outside. The second one could of been a miscommunication with Stokely and Orton or just a great play made by Bly. And the third was just a duck which had no velocity on it. Either way, INT's are INT's and are not what this team needs. We cant give a rash a shit to guys like Plummer and Cutler for throwing bad passes and then not give Orton the same criticism. Although this is just one game that was a VERY poor performance for a guy who is supposedly known for taking care of the ball.


a number of times over the offseason, i pointed out to people that orton, for his career, has the exact same interception per attempts ratio as jay cutler-- one pick per every 33 attempts. . . all that nonsense about orton being a smart game manager and taking such great care of the football is nothing but 100% pure MYTH. . . . the guy didn't rack up a lot of picks because the bears didn't let him throw the ball all that much, that's all there is to it. . . if mcD wants to run the spread and wing it all over the place, orton is going to throw plenty of picks. . .

i think all the people who were celebrating about replacing cutler with orton because "he makes better decisions, doesn't lock on to one receiver, takes better care of the ball, etc etc" got quite an eye-opener last night. . . . orton actually does all of that shit, and he turns the ball over just as much as jay-- and he doesn't have the velocity to put it through small windows to beat good coverage when the ball has to come out (our third down conversion percentage last year dwarfed chicago's). . . .

maybe mcdaniels really is the quarterback whisperer, and he can develop orton into a good NFL QB. . . he's still young, and it's not fair to judge him too severely on his first pre-season game in a complicated new system. . . but people who thought we were getting a QB that would come in and be just as productive as jay without any of the faults were living in a dream world. . . .