What makes a DPOY?

[Hawgdriver]

I'd like to know what goes on in the mind of a Defensive Player of the Year ("DPOY") voter.

The TV talkers bring up the # of sacks all the time. Going into the final week of the season, JJ Watt has 20.5, Aldon Smith has 19.5, and Von Miller has 17.5. Here are all of their stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/defense.htm#defense::6

But JJ Watt bats down passes at the line of scrimmage. Von Miller makes sensational non-sack plays. Miller has forced fumbles, pressures, and that coverage interception pick-six.

Aldon Smith is a sack machine, but is not a front runner for DPOY. Apparently Aldon Smith was really benefitting from the disruption caused by Justin Smith. In the 6 quarters Justin Smith has been absent, the 49ers have surrendered 70 points. In the other 54 quarters, the 49ers allowed 190 points. That's like 11 pts/quarter versus 3.5 pts/quarter--almost a touchdown per quarter difference when Justin Smith was gone. I think Aldon's chances are remote, especially after being a non-factor in consecutive games against playoff quality opposition.

I watched Geno Smith play yesterday. That dude was one heck of a force. He was causing havoc all the time. I don't know how much that is captured in a statistic, if it is at all. I don't think it is. But he was causing a lot of problems. I think he's not getting enough attention. He passed the eyeball test. I don't think he's better than JJ Watt, but I have him above Aldon Smith.

I wonder if DPOY voters look at the film enough to know the indirect, not-captured-by-stats production of these players. It's gotta be hard to compare these dudes outside of the numbers.

Having watched Von Miller, I know that he has been a central part of the intense QB pressure and run stopping that has resulted in one of the best all-around defenses in the league this year. I think Denver's defense, as a unit, is playing better than Houston's. To some degree, the DPOY is something of a team award in addition to being primarily a player award. The team makes the player better, sure, but the player also makes the team better.

I know JJ Watt, like Geno Smith, is a one-man wrecking crew. A lot of tackles for a loss--a lot of tackles, period, for a lineman. He should probably get the award, especially if he breaks the sack record. But Von is the more dynamic force. I have to think that the unpredictability and speed-shock-power-force mix that is Miller makes him especially unstoppable and especially hard for opposing offenses to contain. The turnovers are game-changing, game-winning plays. How many of those pick-sixes were a direct result of the pressure that Von and Elvis bring every play?

Of course I'm rooting for a Bronco to bring home some hardware. But I'd really like to know what the scoresheets look like for DPOY voting.

[Dapper Dan]

You've been hacked by Joel.

[Joel]

You've been hacked by Joel.
No, I can't post with that kind of depth and intelligence about defensive line play. My knowledge of the defensive line doesn't extend much beyond "DTs stop runs up the gut and collapse the pocket; DEs play the outside run and rush the passer." I sometimes have to remind myself of UTs, and posted a question in Football 101 a while back about 3-4 LB pass coverage duties. I'm still a bit vague on the latter, but feel 3-4 LB coverage underutilized against the short quick passes to half a dozen different receivers so popular today (but then, people are obsessed with sacks nowadays.)

I will say Watt creates MANY turnovers, too. Probably the most memorable was jumping up to knock down a Cincy pass in the playoffs last year but instead wrapping both hands around it and trotting into the endzone untouched. He's all over the field, and both fumbles and picks follow in his wake. But perhaps his biggest contribution is that moving around and drawing double teams lets guys like Whitney Mercilus, Antonio Smith, Connor Barwin and Bradie James make a lot of their own great plays. If the Texans had a QB who was more accurate and less of a statue (and Brian Cushing) they'd be the team to beat.

A third stand out player in our front seven, especially at DT or MLB, would make our D truly brutal, presenting opponents the same dilemma teams with many good receivers pose: You can't double EVERYONE.

For DPoY, the Broncos and Texans are the teams I watch most, and I'd give it to Watt without a second thought.

[Dapper Dan]

Racist.

[Poet]

Apparently I'm an idiot because I don't know much about Geno Smith.

[Softskull]

Apparently I'm an idiot because I don't know much about Geno Smith.

I'll help you brother. Geno = Badazz

[Poet]

I'll help you brother. Geno = Badazz

I didn't know that I was Geno.

[Hawgdriver]

You've been hacked by Joel.

Next time I'll tl;dr for the ADD crowd. :D

[Dapper Dan]

I'm still confused about the QB from WVU being such a good defensive player in the NFL.

[Poet]

I'm assuming he's referring to Geno Atkins.

[zbeg]

I'd like to know what goes on in the mind of a Defensive Player of the Year ("DPOY") voter.

The TV talkers bring up the # of sacks all the time. Going into the final week of the season, JJ Watt has 20.5, Aldon Smith has 19.5, and Von Miller has 17.5. Here are all of their stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/defense.htm#defense::6

But JJ Watt bats down passes at the line of scrimmage. Von Miller makes sensational non-sack plays. Miller has forced fumbles, pressures, and that coverage interception pick-six.

Aldon Smith is a sack machine, but is not a front runner for DPOY. Apparently Aldon Smith was really benefitting from the disruption caused by Justin Smith. In the 6 quarters Justin Smith has been absent, the 49ers have surrendered 70 points. In the other 54 quarters, the 49ers allowed 190 points. That's like 11 pts/quarter versus 3.5 pts/quarter--almost a touchdown per quarter difference when Justin Smith was gone. I think Aldon's chances are remote, especially after being a non-factor in consecutive games against playoff quality opposition.

I watched Geno Smith play yesterday. That dude was one heck of a force. He was causing havoc all the time. I don't know how much that is captured in a statistic, if it is at all. I don't think it is. But he was causing a lot of problems. I think he's not getting enough attention. He passed the eyeball test. I don't think he's better than JJ Watt, but I have him above Aldon Smith.

I wonder if DPOY voters look at the film enough to know the indirect, not-captured-by-stats production of these players. It's gotta be hard to compare these dudes outside of the numbers.

Having watched Von Miller, I know that he has been a central part of the intense QB pressure and run stopping that has resulted in one of the best all-around defenses in the league this year. I think Denver's defense, as a unit, is playing better than Houston's. To some degree, the DPOY is something of a team award in addition to being primarily a player award. The team makes the player better, sure, but the player also makes the team better.

I know JJ Watt, like Geno Smith, is a one-man wrecking crew. A lot of tackles for a loss--a lot of tackles, period, for a lineman. He should probably get the award, especially if he breaks the sack record. But Von is the more dynamic force. I have to think that the unpredictability and speed-shock-power-force mix that is Miller makes him especially unstoppable and especially hard for opposing offenses to contain. The turnovers are game-changing, game-winning plays. How many of those pick-sixes were a direct result of the pressure that Von and Elvis bring every play?

Of course I'm rooting for a Bronco to bring home some hardware. But I'd really like to know what the scoresheets look like for DPOY voting.

Watt's also doing a lot of things that don't show up in the box score. I agree that we can just drop Aldon Smith out of the conversation because he's a pass rush specialist who really benefits a lot from Justin Smith. He was pretty ineffective last night with Justin out, and Seattle was able to take him out of the game and make him a non-factor.

Miller does benefit from Dumervil and Wolfe, although not to the same degree that Aldon benefits from Justin's presence. Watt is good against the run, he forces fumbles, and of course he causes pressure and he sacks the quarterback. Oh, and he's leading the league in sacks despite never rushing off the edge. Wait. What? How is that even a thing? Dear god.

Watt does not have the benefit of other players to help him out. He's playing a position where it's hard to put up big sack numbers, and he's still able to do what he's done. He leads the league in tackles for loss. He leads the league in sacks. He also forces fumbles (4 forced fumbles compared to Miller's 6). He cannot be single-teamed and often when he's double teamed, it still goes badly for the offense.

Then there are the passes defended, which just adds to how incredibly disruptive he is to offenses. Look at the pass defense stats by position.

CB - 23
CB - 23
CB - 20
CB - 19
CB - 17
CB - 17
CB - 17
CB - 17
S - 16
CB - 17
CB - 16
J.J. Watt - 15
CB - 15
CB - 14
S - 14
CB -14
CB - 13
CB - 13
CB - 13
CB - 13
CB - 13
S - 13
CB - 12
CB - 12
CB - 12
CB - 12
CB - 12
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
CB - 11
S - 11
S - 11
S - 11

Which one of these doesn't belong?

He's doing dominant defensive lineman things better than the other defensive linemen. He defends against the run. He causes pressure and inaccurate throws. He gets to the quarterback for sacks. And he defends more passes than most defensive backs in the league.

I love Von, and I think in most years he'd be the clear #1 DPOY. But Watt isn't just the best defensive player in the league - I think this is the best defensive season for any one player in NFL history. It is absolutely bonkers how good he has been.

I disagree that Von is the more dynamic force. Watt is doing as much as Von plus more and doing so from a more difficult position and he doesn't have the benefit of defensive players like Dumervil to take the pressure off. He's doing it on his own and he's doing a better job of it. He has been incomprehensibly good. He's not a person. He's a Madden custom character that somehow got saved to the Texans real life roster.

If I had an MVP vote, I'd vote for Watt even though I know he has no chance at the award, which is a shame. Watt is easily the windmill slam DPOY and I don't think it's remotely close.

[Dapper Dan]

I'm assuming he's referring to Geno Atkins.

Geno Atkins is a horrible quarterback.

[Poet]

Geno Atkins is a horrible quarterback.

He sacks himself, a lot.

[CrazyHorse]

As good as Von Miller is I have to go with Watt at this point. If Miller has a phenomenal game against the Chiefs that could change.

[MOtorboat]

Don't forget about Charles Tillman. 10 forced fumbles, three interception returns for a touchdown and 81 tackles.

[Dapper Dan]

Yo, Von Miller, I'm real happy for you and IMA let you finish, but JJ Watt is having one of the best defensive performances of all time.

[Poet]

Mo, I think Von Miller and Watt outclass Tillman for the discussion.

[MOtorboat]

Mo, I think Von Miller and Watt outclass Tillman for the discussion.

Probably. I'm just sayin'.

[Hawgdriver]

I'm assuming he's referring to Geno Atkins.

Dammit. Yes. Smith on the brain.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

JJ Watt

[Poet]

It's probably Watt. I really don't want it to be Watt. I want it to be Atkins or Miller.

[MasterShake]

It's probably Watt. I really don't want it to be Watt. I want it to be Atkins or Miller.

If it wasn't for Watt, Miller would get it easy but you just can't dispute how overall disruptive Watt is. Given the choice for my team, I'll stick with Von though. He is priceless in the run game and there is no one else I want on 3rd and long rushing the passer.

[BroncoNut]

Don't forget about Charles Tillman. 10 forced fumbles, three interception returns for a touchdown and 81 tackles.

I believe the OP wants discussion to focus on defensive lineman of interest you moron

[BroncoNut]

Dammit. Yes. Smith on the brain.

yeah, that screwed me up too, then I was thinking that there just must be an nfldp with the same name as geno smith.

[slim]

Watt, no question.

[hotcarl]

I think it has in large part been a fallacy of "coachthink" to believe that the valididity of an athletes play can be determined by strictly subjective standards. the true measurement of a players value can best be summed pu in three simple words: "me so horny"

[Hawgdriver]

I think it has in large part been a fallacy of "coachthink" to believe that the valididity of an athletes play can be determined by strictly subjective standards. the true measurement of a players value can best be summed pu in three simple words: "me so horny"

What do we get for 10 dollars?

Aside: In my copyright class, instructor played first 2 minutes of x-rated version of song you mention, totally unaware (or so he acted) of the content. Was fun watching the faces of the cultured law student girls when skyywalker asked if 'her mama would be disgusted if she sees her [kitty] busted' IDK maybe they aren't as nice as I'm projecting, maybe they are freaks. /aside

Anyway, Geno Smith has my vote.

Just watched this profile of JJ Watt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0cMskVjUwk). Dude may be every bit the 5-sigma athletic freak that Von is. Didn't realize his vertical was that insane, especially for an interior lineman.

[Chef Zambini]

Don't forget about Charles Tillman. 10 forced fumbles, three interception returns for a touchdown and 81 tackles.
a SAFETY ?

FOR DPOY ?
your joking, right/
trolling?
how can a safety possibly be considered as a viable candidate for DPOY?
be serious Mo, our responses here mean everything!
a safty, please.

[slim]

a SAFETY ?

FOR DPOY ?
your joking, right/
trolling?
how can a safety possibly be considered as a viable candidate for DPOY?
be serious Mo, our responses here mean everything!
a safty, please.

Uh, Tillman is not a safety :listen:

[Timmy!]

Uh, Tillman is not a safety :listen:

Can u imagine how great he could be if they moved him to safety?

[MOtorboat]

a SAFETY ?

FOR DPOY ?
your joking, right/
trolling?
how can a safety possibly be considered as a viable candidate for DPOY?
be serious Mo, our responses here mean everything!
a safty, please.

Priceless.

[BroncoNut]

I sense some sexual tension between Zam and Mo

[slim]

In the history of the award, here is a breakdown by position:
LB - 15
DE - 9
DT - 7
CB - 5
S - 5

It is all about the front 7, always has been and always will be.

[BroncoNut]

HotCArl makes me laugh

I think that Geno Atkins or whatever is the DPOY

[BroncoNut]

Uh, Tillman is not a safety :listen:

lmao!! did someone suggest he was?

[slim]

lmao!! did someone suggest he was?

Yeah, Zam did. But in his defense, he thinks everyone is (or should be) a safety.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah, Zam did. But in his defense, he thinks everyone is (or should be) a safety.

I just think his post in this thread was downright awesome, actually.

[zbeg]

Just watched this profile of JJ Watt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0cMskVjUwk). Dude may be every bit the 5-sigma athletic freak that Von is. Didn't realize his vertical was that insane, especially for an interior lineman.

Yeah, Watt's a freak and he's really smart. He's picked up the nuances of line play really quickly and he's unstoppable from a physical standpoint.

Man is it fun to watch Miller and Watt. Both seem like pretty easygoing guys and are very easy to root for. I wish Watt didn't play in the AFC, but what can you do?

[zbeg]

Uh, Tillman is not a safety :listen:

Everyone know Watt is the best safety in the league anyway.

[Joel]

What do we get for 10 dollars?

Aside: In my copyright class, instructor played first 2 minutes of x-rated version of song you mention, totally unaware (or so he acted) of the content. Was fun watching the faces of the cultured law student girls when skyywalker asked if 'her mama would be disgusted if she sees her [kitty] busted' IDK maybe they aren't as nice as I'm projecting, maybe they are freaks. /aside

Anyway, Geno Smith has my vote.

Just watched this profile of JJ Watt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0cMskVjUwk). Dude may be every bit the 5-sigma athletic freak that Von is. Didn't realize his vertical was that insane, especially for an interior lineman.
He's frightening, and not just on the stat sheet, though that's pretty scary, too. How the F--K does a DE have 15 passed defended?!

Sorry, MS, but I must disagree: Miller's a stud, and I love him being on the team, but if I had to choose I'd prefer Watt rushing the passer on third and long; he has more sacks AND (a lot) more passes defended, and just blows holes in offensive lines. I don't think Antonio Smith and Whitney Mercilus are great players, it just LOOKS that way because Watt demands so many double teams. That says something, too: Miller's a phenomenal player, but doesn't demand double teams every down, and Watt is STILL more disruptive and racks up better stats. There's a reason Houston didn't hesitate to bid Super Mario farewell.

[Poet]

To be fair, last year the Texans had the best defense in the game and Watt was a marginal player (read rookie). Williams played like 4 games for them as well.

[Joel]

To be fair, last year the Texans had the best defense in the game and Watt was a marginal player (read rookie). Williams played like 4 games for them as well.
Watt started all of them though, more than marginal for a rookie. He began slowly, as one would expect of a rookie, but made his presence known more after November, and played VERY well in the postseason, picking up a sack and pick six in the first game (as you surely remember,) then 9 solo tackles and 2.5 sacks against the Ravens. I'm not saying he was any threat to Miller for DRoY, but you could tell he'd be good.

THIS year he's trying to lead the league in sacks AND passes knocked down (which I'm pretty sure no one has ever done) while almost incidentally forcing 4 fumbles and racking up 65 solo tackles.

[Poet]

He had 5.5 sacks as a rookie and his regular season was not remarkable. His playoff play was very good but you are really overstating a lot of things, especially what he did last year.