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Astrass
11-07-2007, 12:54 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7415662?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5



Injuries, an inexperienced starting quarterback and a porous run defense have contributed to Denver's 3-5 record.

The biggest problem, though, starts up top.
Mike Shanahan is an offensive genius and Hall of Fame-caliber head coach. But as a personnel guru, Shanahan should have gotten fired long ago.

This off-season, maybe that will happen.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen needs to reassess an organizational structure that gives Shanahan total control over roster moves. Even if it rallies to win the mediocre AFC West, Denver is showing the same cracks perennial winners like San Francisco, Miami and Green Bay did before their slides began.


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The Broncos could easily be 0-8, having won all three games on the final play. Two of the losses — including last Sunday's 44-7 drubbing in Detroit — were the most lopsided since Shanahan became coach in 1995.

Poor free-agent decisions and drafts are beginning to cripple the franchise that Shanahan built.

Shanahan could do no wrong when constructing a mini-dynasty. Between 1996 and 1998, six free-agent signings reached the Pro Bowl. A seventh selection (left tackle Tony Jones) came via a trade with Baltimore. Shanahan also astutely identified other talented starters and backups, augmenting a stacked roster from previous drafts. The result was two Super Bowl titles.

But Shanahan lost his Midas touch — and Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway — shortly after the second title in 1998. Denver is one of the NFL's busiest teams every year during the off-season, yet only two veteran acquisitions this decade (safety John Lynch and cornerback Champ Bailey) have reached the Pro Bowl.

Admittedly, I thought Denver was poised for a Super Bowl run this season and even told Shanahan so in August. But some of Denver's 2007 moves were as bad as my prediction.

Running back Travis Henry faces a year-long NFL suspension should his appeal of a failed drug test be denied. Dre' Bly is being paid like a shut-down cornerback but hasn't made that kind of impact. Daniel Graham is being used primarily as a blocking tight end, a role that doesn't justify giving him $20 million in guaranteed money. Simeon Rice is quickly joining Denver's ample list of big-name defensive line busts.

Judging by their injury problems, Denver stuck too long with mainstays like wide receiver Rod Smith, center Tom Nalen and Lynch. Five of Denver's seven players on injured reserve are 30-somethings. Ten starters and both specialists are at least 29 years old.

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).

Shanahan's failings in this regard are damning. Yet it speaks volumes for Shanahan the coach that Denver was 51-29 the previous five seasons with one AFC Championship game appearance.

Scapegoating Shanahan's underlings for these problems is easy, but the issues run deeper than the front office. One NFL general manager said Shanahan gives some assistant coaches significant say in veteran personnel acquisitions. This can be dangerous, especially when assistants become blind to player weaknesses that a more objective scout can see.

There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions.

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Unlike in Seattle with Mike Holmgren, I strongly doubt Shanahan would willingly cede his front office power to concentrate exclusively on Xs and Os. Shanahan is a control freak and will never forget his miserable head coaching experience being subservient to Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis in the late 1980s.

Bowlen has steadfastly stood by Shanahan in tough times before. Shanahan also can point to having drafted quarterback Jay Cutler as hope for the future. If he continues to develop, Cutler can help Denver more quickly regain its status among the NFL's elite.

But — as loathe as Shanahan is to say the word — there is substantial rebuilding looming. Ultimately, Bowlen must take a long look at whether a coach nicknamed "The Mastermind" should be masterminding that effort.

************************************************** *****

Before anyone says Sundquist is the GM not Shanny, I'm sure the writer knows this and is besically pointing out that the amount of Power Shanny has over the decision making basicaly makes him the GM.

IMO...I think this article is pretty correct. Sundquist needs to get the boot at the end of the year and they need to hire someone who is competent. Shanny needs to let this part of his job go. He seems to spread himself too thin.

silkamilkamonico
11-07-2007, 02:11 PM
Great article and I agree with it whole heartedly.

Shanahan has turned the Denver Broncos into the AFC version of Washington Redskins.

NameUsedBefore
11-07-2007, 02:22 PM
One NFL general manager said Shanahan gives some assistant coaches significant say in veteran personnel acquisitions. This can be dangerous, especially when assistants become blind to player weaknesses that a more objective scout can see.


IMO that's one of the bigger problems with Shanahan.

Astrass
11-07-2007, 03:26 PM
IMO that's one of the bigger problems with Shanahan.

Agreed....I think this is a rather large issue: See Browncos

DenBronx
11-07-2007, 03:59 PM
i think shanahan is a great coach.

however, i think he is a lousy decision maker when it comes to recruiting.

fire sunquist and dont give shanny anymore power to make these kinds of decisions. just let him coach dammit!

OB
11-07-2007, 04:29 PM
Hell fire him - there are at least 70,000 fans that think they can do a better job :laugh:

But I agree with the article 100%

I knew he had his faults but that article really made them pop out at me - you dont really realize HOW bad it is until you put it to paper and see the #'s

Although none of those #'s would be being scrutinized if we could JUST WIN!!!!!!!!!!

And IMO, Shanny should be willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen and if that means giving up some control, he need to put the pride away and do so

Day1BroncoFan
11-07-2007, 04:57 PM
When there are that many high draft picks that are a bust, something is definitely amiss. :defense:

Retired_Member_001
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Great article and I agree with it whole heartedly.

Shanahan has turned the Denver Broncos into the AFC version of Washington Redskins.

:salute::salute::salute:

SBboundBRONCOS
11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
When there are that many high draft picks that are a bust, something is definitely amiss. :defense:

agreed, and it still wouldnt be so bad if they could semi-contirubte but i would bet that most of them are not even in the NFL anymore

Retired_Member_001
11-07-2007, 05:05 PM
Hell fire him - there are at least 70,000 fans that think they can do a better job :laugh:

But I agree with the article 100%

I knew he had his faults but that article really made them pop out at me - you dont really realize HOW bad it is until you put it to paper and see the #'s

Although none of those #'s would be being scrutinized if we could JUST WIN!!!!!!!!!!

And IMO, Shanny should be willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen and if that means giving up some control, he need to put the pride away and do so

When it comes to making decisions on drafting players I'm pretty sure 70,000 fans COULD do better. Do we need to bring back Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie and George Foster back to remind you of some of Shanahan's horrible decision making?


Although none of those #'s would be being scrutinized if we could JUST WIN!!!!!!!!!!

Winning and drafting are different things. Even if we were winning, Shanahan would be getting criticism.

broncofanatic1987
11-07-2007, 05:31 PM
Before anyone says Sundquist is the GM not Shanny, I'm sure the writer knows this and is besically pointing out that the amount of Power Shanny has over the decision making basicaly makes him the GM.

IMO...I think this article is pretty correct. Sundquist needs to get the boot at the end of the year and they need to hire someone who is competent. Shanny needs to let this part of his job go. He seems to spread himself too thin.

Shanahan is the Vice President of Football Operations.

What makes you think Sunquist isn't competent? He doesn't make the personnel decisions. He negotiates the contracts, but Shanahan has final say. I agree that Shanahan should be stripped of making personnel decisions, but it's completely out of line to assume Sundquist isn't a competent GM.

Astrass
11-07-2007, 06:35 PM
Shanahan is the Vice President of Football Operations.

What makes you think Sunquist isn't competent? He doesn't make the personnel decisions. He negotiates the contracts, but Shanahan has final say. I agree that Shanahan should be stripped of making personnel decisions, but it's completely out of line to assume Sundquist isn't a competent GM.

He isnt.....look at Bly's contract for example.

broncofanatic1987
11-07-2007, 06:53 PM
He isnt.....look at Bly's contract for example.


Is Bly's contract out of line with other cornerbacks of his experience and accomplishments? Don't forget, he is a two time Pro Bowler with a Super Bowl ring, that many people probably thought was being misused in Detroit's defensive scheme. Despite what you might think of his performance this year, players get paid as much for what they did in the past as they are for what they're expected to do in the present and future. If he's not living up to expectations, that's not Sundquist's fault. And, Shanahan still has final say.

SBboundBRONCOS
11-07-2007, 06:53 PM
He isnt.....look at Bly's contract for example.

**cough cough rice and graham cough** :laugh:

TXBRONC
11-07-2007, 06:57 PM
**cough cough rice and graham cough** :laugh:

Rice's contract is incentive based. Graham's contract was dictated by the market.

fcspikeit
11-07-2007, 07:15 PM
i think shanahan is a great coach.

however, i think he is a lousy decision maker when it comes to recruiting.

fire sunquist and dont give shanny anymore power to make these kinds of decisions. just let him coach dammit!

So what happens if he wants out because he is not in control of everything as he is now?

Do you think there is another team out there that is willing to give Shanny all the control as he has now to coach for them?

If demoting him was going to lead to his demise do you feel it would be worth it?

Or would you except the bad to keep the good?

BFI
11-07-2007, 07:52 PM
So what happens if he wants out because he is not in control of everything as he is now?

Do you think there is another team out there that is willing to give Shanny all the control as he has now to coach for them?

If demoting him was going to lead to his demise do you feel it would be worth it?

Or would you except the bad to keep the good?

Those are some good questions. I dont know if Shanny would be willing to give up the GM responsibilties and just coach. No other team has given their coach the kind of power that Bowlen has given Shanny.

Will an owner with a losing team/mentality (Cardinals, Rams, Dolphins, Bills, Jets) be willing to give over that much power to get a consitantly winning team? To get a team that hasnt seen even a glimpse of the playoffs in a long time?
(Something that we Bronco fans have enjoyed for about a decade now...)

And I have to wonder...if Shanny does just go to coaching...how much of a better coach he would be, and if Sundquist et. al are actually good at scouting talent......though these past few drafts have been better....

DenBronx
11-07-2007, 08:45 PM
So what happens if he wants out because he is not in control of everything as he is now?

Do you think there is another team out there that is willing to give Shanny all the control as he has now to coach for them?

If demoting him was going to lead to his demise do you feel it would be worth it?

Or would you except the bad to keep the good?


there would be a few teams that would but if he wants to remain in denver then i think he would step down in a few areas. his main priority is coaching. if were in the rebuilding stages then i dont really want mike rebuilding the team. he has had over 9 years to rebuild. if it hurts his ego then im sure he will move on but shanahan doesnt seem like that kind of guy at all. i think he wants whats best for the team.

sunquist should be replaced, this is a must before we even get into shanahan talks.

TXBRONC
11-08-2007, 02:07 PM
there would be a few teams that would but if he wants to remain in denver then i think he would step down in a few areas. his main priority is coaching. if were in the rebuilding stages then i dont really want mike rebuilding the team. he has had over 9 years to rebuild. if it hurts his ego then im sure he will move on but shanahan doesnt seem like that kind of guy at all. i think he wants whats best for the team.

sunquist should be replaced, this is a must before we even get into shanahan talks.


Why is a must if Sundquist is the one charge? That doesn't make any sense.

Dean
11-09-2007, 07:58 AM
It's my opinion that Mike Shanahan has already coached under Al Davis in a situation in which he had little control of the operations of the team. In fact Shanahan fired Art Shell from his staff and Davis hired him back. Then Davis fire Shanahan midway through the next season. I just can't see any way Mike would remain the Broncos coach without the authority to control personnel.

Very few teams have had the winning record that the Broncos have enjoyed during Mike's tenure as head coach. We may not like how he stocks his teams with talent but he has been successful at getting the job done over the long haul. We don't know if this is a mere blip on the radar or a trend. IMO care must be taken not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Losing NFL teams tend to go through coach after coach for years before they finally find a suitable replacement.

TXBRONC
11-09-2007, 02:22 PM
It's my opinion that Mike Shanahan has already coached under Al Davis in a situation in which he had little control of the operations of the team. In fact Shanahan fired Art Shell from his staff and Davis hired him back. Then Davis fire Shanahan midway through the next season. I just can't see any way Mike would remain the Broncos coach without the authority to control personnel.

Very few teams have had the winning record that the Broncos have enjoyed during Mike's tenure as head coach. We may not like how he stocks his teams with talent but he has been successful at getting the job done over the long haul. We don't know if this is a mere blip on the radar or a trend. IMO care must be taken not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Losing NFL teams tend to go through coach after coach for years before they finally find a suitable replacement.

Lions and Bengals anyone?

broncosfanscott
11-11-2007, 03:26 AM
That is a good article and I agree with it. I have heard a few times on TV that Shanny should give up some of the control he has so he can focus more on coaching. He has started to draft better over the past two seasons and hopefully will get better and stop picking up players that other teams release. I know we had a lot of late round players when we won our two Super Bowls, yet this doesn't happen all the time.

Simple Jaded
11-11-2007, 04:08 AM
It's my opinion that Mike Shanahan has already coached under Al Davis in a situation in which he had little control of the operations of the team. In fact Shanahan fired Art Shell from his staff and Davis hired him back. Then Davis fire Shanahan midway through the next season. I just can't see any way Mike would remain the Broncos coach without the authority to control personnel.

Very few teams have had the winning record that the Broncos have enjoyed during Mike's tenure as head coach. We may not like how he stocks his teams with talent but he has been successful at getting the job done over the long haul. We don't know if this is a mere blip on the radar or a trend. IMO care must be taken not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Losing NFL teams tend to go through coach after coach for years before they finally find a suitable replacement.


The Broncos have had all of 4 head coaches in 3 decades, there are 30 other NFL franchises that wish they could say that.

I've been saying for years that I wish Shanahan was no longer running the draft and free agency, but I never wanted it to be at the expense of losing the 2nd best HC in the game.

Broncos fans should be careful what they wish for.

Denver needs a GM with a keen eye for talent who also has the common sense to take the obvious pick instead of "The Next Rod Smith" sleeper from Akron type pick

Denver seriously needs to revamp the scouting department, but make no mistake about it, what Shanahan wants should always carry more weight.

It works fine in NE.

But if Shanahan insists on keeping his absolute authority he better continue the good drafts he's had lately.

Because, until lately, his drafts have been pathetic.

"There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions."

This needs to change if there is to be any improvement, imo. He's been wrong FAR TOO OFTEN to be acting like this.

If Tom Caughlin can change, so can Shanahan......

broncosfanscott
11-11-2007, 11:36 AM
The Broncos have had all of 4 head coaches in 3 decades, there are 30 other NFL franchises that wish they could say that.

I've been saying for years that I wish Shanahan was no longer running the draft and free agency, but I never wanted it to be at the expense of losing the 2nd best HC in the game.

Broncos fans should be careful what they wish for.

Denver needs a GM with a keen eye for talent who also has the common sense to take the obvious pick instead of "The Next Rod Smith" sleeper from Akron type pick

Denver seriously needs to revamp the scouting department, but make no mistake about it, what Shanahan wants should always carry more weight.

It works fine in NE.

But if Shanahan insists on keeping his absolute authority he better continue the good drafts he's had lately.

Because, until lately, his drafts have been pathetic.

"There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions."

This needs to change if there is to be any improvement, imo. He's been wrong FAR TOO OFTEN to be acting like this.

If Tom Caughlin can change, so can Shanahan......

Exactly. In order to get the right players for the team, you need to have everybody's input.

Lonestar
11-12-2007, 12:58 AM
Exactly. In order to get the right players for the team, you need to have everybody's input.

so where do you stand on the issue?