Official(Slit My Wrists) Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

[broncophan]

Jesus.....this will be 17 years in a row that they will have a losing season......breaking a record of futility for ANY pro sports team.Have been a fan for 32 years.....but can't take a whole lot more.
What is pathetic....is they were starting to get a decent team built....but the trades the past season and a half....(Bay,Nady, McClouth,Sanchez, Wilson,Morgan.....and many more)......have once again turned them into no other than a minor league team.

By the way.....watching them right now.....17-2 Cubs....and it is only the 5th inning.....:confused:

[MOtorboat]

Suck it up and take it like a man.

Signed,

A Royals fan.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah...what MO said.


Signed,

An Orioles fan

[BroncoBJ]

There will be better days in the future. :salute:

Signed a Yankees fan. :elefant:

Or as Mo would say " A bandwagon Yankees fan" :lol:

But yea, the Pirates might have a good team if they didn't trade all them players. They've all been pretty good.

[sneakers]

At least you ended your 17 game loosing streak against the brewers this year....

[Devilspawn]

I would feel bad for Pirates fans, but 95% of them are Steelers fans, so they can kiss the left cheek of my Silver & Black Yankee ass.

And since 90% of the hockey fans just saw their team win the Stanley Cup, they can scroll their lips to my right cheek.

And since the Pirates traded away the players that would've helped them win the division, like current Red Sock Jason Bay for example, :tsk: they can lick my hole for dessert.

Who knew I'd hate a team of pirates? :noidea:

[GEM]

I would feel bad for Pirates fans, but 95% of them are Steelers fans, so they can kiss the left cheek of my Silver & Black Yankee ass.

And since 90% of the hockey fans just saw their team win the Stanley Cup, they can scroll their lips to my right cheek.

And since the Pirates traded away the players that would've helped them win the division, like current Red Sock Jason Bay for example, :tsk: they can lick my hole for dessert.

Who knew I'd hate a team of pirates? :noidea:

Well if that isn't the best damn post of the whole friggen year, I don't know what is!!! :laugh:

[Poet]

I'm a Reds fan so I'm not exactly sitting on much greener pastures.

[broncophan]

Opening day.....Go Pirates......

One of the few days that I can say the Pirates are tied for first place.....:)

Enjoy the season baseball fans......

[CoachChaz]

Opening day.....Go Pirates......

One of the few days that I can say the Pirates are tied for first place.....:)

Enjoy the season baseball fans......

They are looking good today

[broncophan]

Yea.....they must be......am following the game trax on espn.

Alot of young guys again this season.....hopefully they play well together throughout the year.
McCutchen and Jones will be the key for their offense.....and I have said for the last 3 seasons......Zach Duke could win 15-20 games for alot of major league teams....other than the bucs'...lol

[broncophan]

My Pirates will be going for the sweep tonight against the Cubs.
12-15 for the pirates so far this season......not too bad.....have won alot of close games.....but when they lose they lose bad.......I read where their average margin is 7 runs when they lose......ouch.

[MileHighCrew]

The Pirates will sweep the Durham Bulls this weekend

[broncophan]

The Pirates will sweep the Durham Bulls this weekend

You are wrong.....we play the St. Louis Cardinals this weekend........we wish we were playing the Durham Bulls.........

[MileHighCrew]

either way a loss is a loss

[shank]

that portion of your thread title is offensive to many people who have had to deal with the hardship of having known someone in that position, and i would like you to change it immediately.

















my great uncle was a pirate.

[broncophan]

Yea......"Pittsburgh Pirates" is offensive to alot of people.............

[BroncoAV06]

McCutchen is going to be a very solid OF. Give it about 2-3 years and he will be playing on a team where people will know his name....

[broncophan]

McCutchen is going to be a very solid OF. Give it about 2-3 years and he will be playing on a team where people will know his name....

lol.....I keep hoping the Pirates have finally changed and they will keep promising players......

McCutchen and Garret Jones are both very solid.....
and as I have said......Zach Duke would win about 15 games a season on most teams.

I think it is the Barry Bonds curse.....everything started going downhill when they traded him....


on a positive note......7-0 pirates in the 4th....

[broncophan]

The 16-20 Pirates go for the sweep today at Wrigley........GO BUCS

[broncophan]

:tsk::tsk:...........................:rolleyes::ro lleyes:.........:mad::mad:..........

Well.....my pirates started their June swoon about the second week of May this season......so they sucked earlier than usual this season.......they have currently lost 8 in a row.
23 -40 for the season......14-15 at home......and 9-25 on the road.......if only they could play all their games at home.......they would be decent.

[BroncoAV06]

Again, yay McCutchen! Fantasy stud.

[broncophan]

well.....the pirates are trying to avoid their 11th straight loss tonight against the White Sox......and Wednsday night the pirates has 6 errors........6!!!!.......things like that get the manager fired......which may not be a bad thing......although the Pirates have alot more problems than their manager......we need an owner/gm who cares a little bit about winning......rather than the bottom line.......heres to 18 seasons in a row with a losing record............did I mention they had 6 errors last night??.....what kind of team commits 6 errors in one game???

Edit.......just read where the pirates announced today that Manager John Russel and GM Neal Huntington signed contract extensions this past off season....and the Pirates announced it today while the team has a 10 game losing streak......lol.

[OrangeHoof]

Place your bets. More wins this season: Pittsburgh Pirates or Somali Pirates?

[broncophan]

Place your bets. More wins this season: Pittsburgh Pirates or Somali Pirates?

Well......I think the Pittsburgh Pirates have won 2 games since you posted this(they have only won 2 of about their last 20 games).......and so far.....I have not heard anything about the Somali Pirates getting any wins.....so I think my pirates are safe......I was a little worried there for a while.:D:laugh:

[OrangeHoof]

Don't count out those Somalis though. They have a longer season.

I feel kinda sorry for Pirate fans. Such a proud franchise and now they are about to set a record for most consecutive losing seasons. Just like the town they represent, they just ain't what they used to be.

[broncophan]

Don't count out those Somalis though. They have a longer season.

I feel kinda sorry for Pirate fans. Such a proud franchise and now they are about to set a record for most consecutive losing seasons. Just like the town they represent, they just ain't what they used to be.

Yes......it really is a shame......I still go over.......about a 3 hour drive......two or three times a year and watch them play......
I always go early in the season.....when I at least still have hope.....that they will be.....even a competative team...:confused:....lol
PNC park is one of the top stadiums in baseball.....and they can't even put a competative team on the field....some day....things will get better.....I STILL hope...

[broncophan]

:tsk:...........................

[broncophan]

it's long over due that the pirates organization needs to start spending some of their earnings to get some players:.....from ESPN.com

Pirates made $29.4M in 2007 and 2008Email Print Comments636 Associated Press

PITTSBURGH -- Don't feel too sorry for the cellar-dwelling Pittsburgh Pirates. Losing has been profitable.

The Pirates made nearly $29.4 million in 2007 and 2008, according to team financial documents, years that were part of a streak of futility that has now reached 18 straight losing seasons. The team's ownership also paid its partners $20.4 million in 2008.

The documents offer a rare peek inside a team that made money by getting slightly less than half its income (about $70 million) from MLB sources -- including revenue sharing, network TV, major league merchandise sales and MLB's website. The team also held down costs, keeping player salaries near the bottom of the National League, shedding pricier talent and hoping that untested prospects would blossom.


Pirates' bounty
Highlights of the Pirates' 2007-08 financial statements, as obtained by The Associated Press:

2008 2007
Gate receipts $32,129,368 $34,422,355
Revenue sharing $39,046,312 $30,302,652
Total club-gen. income $76,017,669 $74,990,600
MLB
revenue $69,975,768 $63,645,726
Total income $145,993,437 $138,636,326
Player
salaries $51,040,233 $50,871,186
Total expend. $124,203,035 $122,438,772
Profit (after taxes) $14,408,249 $15,008,032

The club's earnings were included in nearly 40 pages of statements that the Pirates submitted to Major League Baseball and were recently obtained by The Associated Press. Team officials briefed local reporters on portions of the material Sunday. The AP wasn't invited to the session, which owner Bob Nutting said was "aimed at the recent leak."

"The numbers indicate why people are suspecting they're taking money from baseball and keeping it -- they don't spend it on the players," said David Berri, president of the North American Association of Sports Economists and the author of two books detailing the relationship between finances and winning. "Teams have a choice. They can seek to maximize winning, what the Yankees do, or you can be the Pirates and make as much money as you can in your market. The Pirates aren't trying to win."

Club executives vehemently disagreed with that assessment. Yet the numbers show Pittsburgh hasn't spent as much as its opponents -- and hasn't won.

By 2010, the Pirates had baseball's lowest opening-day payroll -- $34.9 million or just $2 million more than in 1992, the club's last winning season. The Pirates run of consecutive losing seasons is now the worst in the history of major American pro sports teams. They lost their 83rd game of the year Saturday to the Mets.

Pirate officials say they are trying to field a competitive team, and that there is nothing nefarious in the team's financial dealings. MLB backs them up, saying Pittsburgh has complied with the rules for revenue sharing, which are supposed to help less well off clubs compete with likes of the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox.

Still, Pittsburgh fans have long complained that the club's various owners have been more interested in profits than performance, and top sports economists who reviewed highlights of the team's statements wondered if it now makes more money losing than it could by winning.

"If they won and were forced to increase their payroll from $34 million to $75 million or $80 million ... how profitable would they be?" Berri said. "There's a ceiling in terms of gate revenues."

Economist Roger Noll, a Stanford University economist, said: "Probably the Pirates would be less profitable if they tried to improve the team substantially."

Pirates president Frank Coonelly said the team spends its revenue-sharing money in several ways designed to create a winner: scouting; amateur draft choices; a new Dominican Republic academy that cost more than $5 million; player development; and, an expensive new computer system used in player evaluation.

According to the documents, the Pirates spent $23.2 million in 2008 and $21.2 million in 2007 for player development, in line with other clubs.

The Pirates' strategy of building with prospects rather than with proven players was illustrated this month when they paid nearly $12 million for amateur draft picks, putting them at or near the top of baseball, and raising their draft expenditures to $31 million for the last three years.

They also spent another $2.6 million for 16-year-old Mexican pitching prospect Luis Heredia, the highest price they've paid for an international prospect. General manager Neal Huntington, who was hired three years ago, said the team has a plan for the future and is in the middle of executing it.

Coonnelly said in an interview with the AP last week that Pittsburgh, one of baseball's smaller markets, still will need help after it climbs in the standings.

"Even when we're winning, we will be a revenue-sharing recipient ... and in much better position to generate revenue and, depending on how we control other expenses, to generate additional income," he said. "But you can win without an $80 million payroll. We're seeing it this year."

Indeed, San Diego had the second-lowest opening day payroll and the Padres are leading the NL West. Tampa Bay went to the World Series in 2008 with a relatively low budget.

Revenue-sharing funds come from each team's local revenues -- every team is charged 34 percent -- and are redistributed among the lower-revenue teams. The only stipulation is that the money should be spent on making the team competitive. There is no set amount for payroll.

"The Pirates have fully complied with the Basic Agreement requirements for the use of revenue-sharing proceeds," Rob Manfred, MLB's executive vice president for labor relations, told the AP in an e-mail. The Basic Agreement is the labor contract between the MLB's 30 clubs and the players union.

The Pirates issued a statement Sunday, saying it was wrong for the financial statements to have been released to the AP.

"Someone with access to the Club's financial statements has breached his/her fiduciary obligation to the Club by providing a copy of the Club's audited financial statements for the 2007 and 2008 seasons to the Associated Press," the statement read. "The Club is a private company that has no obligation to publicly report its financial results and, like most private companies, has consistently declined to do so."

The statement also said "the revenues generated by the club are being reinvested back into the club in both long-term and short-term investments needed to completely overhaul and rebuild this baseball team."

"The Club has paid no dividends to its partners. Moreover, while it is quite common for a Chairman of the Board of Directors of a partnership to draw a salary, (owner since 2007) Bob Nutting has never received any salary."

Apart from the financial statements, the AP obtained a check stub of a payment made from a Pirates account to settle a bill with Seven Springs ski resort, which is owned by the Nutting family. The check bore a Pirates logo, which at first look suggests a financial transaction between the two operations, but the team says it came from a since-closed joint advertising account.

"I can tell you for certain there has not been a dime that has left the Pirates organization to fund any other business of any of the partners of the Pirates," Coonelly said.

The $20.4 million payment to partners two years ago wasn't for dividends, Coonelly said, but to cover the owners' taxes on the Pirates' profits and to pay a partner who loaned the team money seven years ago when the Pirates' credit was so bad it couldn't obtain bank financing. While such tax payments are common in a partnership, they're unavailable to the common investor.

Coonelly, previously an attorney for MLB, defended the Pirates' right to make a profit, but said he would not stay with the team if he suspected any Pirates funds were being channeled to ownership.

"I would not have left the commissioner's office if I wasn't convinced that Bob Nutting was committed to putting a winning product on the field," he said. "I would not have left the commissioner's office and I wouldn't remain at the Pirates if the Pirates were simply generating resources to fund other businesses."

Still, fans and critics ask how a team that won five World Series from 1909-1979 and nine division titles from 1969-92 can be so bad.

"I think it's very important for smaller markets teams to be careful about spending payroll, but there's a reason to be skeptical and cynical about what's going on (in Pittsburgh)," Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College economist, said.

To cut payroll, the Pirates have shed former All-Stars Jason Bay, Freddy Sanchez, Nate McLouth and Jack Wilson in trades, along with nearly every other player who was arbitration eligible -- or close to it -- or free agency: Tom Gorzelanny, Ian Snell, John Grabow, Xavier Nady, Adam LaRoche, Damaso Marte, Nyjer Morgan, Ronny Paulino and Sean Burnett.

They also dealt slugger Jose Bautista to Toronto for a backup catcher who has since left their system, and cut NL All-Star closer Matt Capps without getting anything in return because he sought a $500,000 raise.

The team says it needs money to have the flexibility to make better investments going forward.

So while fans wait for $6 million draft pick Jameson Taillon and $2 million draft pick Stetson Allie to develop -- both right-handers throw nearly 100 mph -- they're not exactly flocking to PNC Park.

The gem of a stadium opened in 2001 at a cost of $262 million, with the Pirates covering $44 million, after the team long lobbied for a baseball-only venue that would maximize revenues. Attendance peaked during the inagura1 season at 2.4 million, but declined to a low of about 1.6 million last year. During the two years covered by the documents, gate receipts (more than $66 million) barely were enough to cover the expenses for ballpark and game operations, public relations, marketing and administration costs, much less payroll.

Still, the club is profitable, taking in $15,008,032 in 2007 and $14,408,249 in 2008. Coonelly said Sunday the Pirates made $5.4 million in 2009.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press