PFM or AP ?

[Chef Zambini]

who is the comeback player of the year. who do you favor, duh, as well as who you think will win !
sorry folks, its AP !if PM had tommy john surgery, it would be a legitimate contest, but what AP is doing after his surgery is unprecedented !
any other year, it would be manning, this year its all day AP.

[slim]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

[underrated29]

Hard to Say. If AP hits 2k yards its him hands down. He could still have the edge I think. We need manning to go off and do a normal PFM and toss like 5tds in back to back games on people. That is what he is lacking.

[Simple Jaded]

Sorry, but if Peterson were old, future in doubt and left for dead by his old team you might be right about not being a "legit contest".......

[Davii]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQO1f0RySzIiFvhJfyGYyX8h73Wd8zJY Qyw6PsD3g5nzI8gnw9Y

[rationalfan]

i'd have to cast my vote for AP. he playing like he never got injured. it's amazing.

another part of my rationale is that, i think, much of manning's injury was overhyped by the media. yes, it was a tough injury to overcome, but there was this nagging, and incorrect, belief that his neck was as brittle as an egg and one strong hit could end his career. so every game he defied this incorrect belief added to the mythology of mannings ordeal.

having written all that, i'd bet my elway jersey that manning wins the award.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

PFM.

What happened to AP was bad and his rapid recovery is extremely impressive, but nobody ever doubted he'd play again. Nobody ever doubted his ability to return to form to do his job, and at this day and age, with guys returning from acl tears, torn triceps/biceps/pectorals, torn achilles tendons, and other muscle and ligament injuries at alarming rates, it's just not as impressive as it was say, 10 years ago. AP is also much younger (in his prime) and had a lot higher % chance of full recovery. AP also was injured in the last game of the season so he didn't miss significant time and the surgery he underwent is extremely routine in today's pro sports. DT tore his achilles last year (normally a year long recovery) and was back for TC - he wasn't a CPOY candidate.

PFM had to overcome nerve damage and 4 surgeries. Much harder to come back from. He's older and had to do his rehab in secret so he could focus and it wouldn't become a media frenzy. Peyton was also released by his team and had to adjust to not only new players, but a new training staff to rehab with. AP was able to have consistent rehab and year-round access to the same training staff. To date, Peyton is having the second best (QBR) season of his career and is not only as good as ever, he's an MVP candidate to boot at 36 years old, well past his physical "prime", which to me shows incredible mental resolve. Now, knowing that Manning has a very good chance at his 5th MVP, I can see him being the MVP and AP getting CPOY. (I doubt Manning would be awarded both).

[topscribe]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
How is Zam wrong in this? I'm sure a lot of people in Minnesota agree with
him, whether I do or not. Probably even some of the more objective people
in Denver aren't too sure.

We don't have to accuse Zam of being a troll every time we disagree . . .
.

[BroncoNut]

man, this is a great question Zam. Not like it's been being talked about on the major NFL networks lately. Man, you really do know your stuff!!! :buff:

[PatriotsGuy]

It will be Manning because they love to wash his balls.

[BroncoNut]

It will be Manning because they love to wash his balls.

probably PAGs. plus he is really the comeback player of the league this season. eff AP. how many games did he miss? of course he had a great season, but Peyton's success at least matches his there in my estimation

[PatriotsGuy]

probably PAGs. plus he is really the comeback player of the league this season. eff AP. how many games did he miss? of course he had a great season, but Peyton's success at least matches his there in my estimation

Who is going to be MVP? Let me guess

[BroncoNut]

Who is going to be MVP? Let me guess

of the league or of the team? of the league, PM, of the team knowshown retardo

[PatriotsGuy]

of the league or of the team? of the league, PM, of the team knowshown retardo

Any relation to Nelly Furtado?

[BroncoNut]

Any relation to Nelly Furtado?

quit screwing around PAGS

[NightTerror218]

IMO AP.....serious knee injury and came back will get mostly likely get 2k yards. That is saying something. If manning hit the 5k yards mark he could be up for it. Because both of those marks only have a handful of people who have hit it.

[BroncoNut]

IMO AP.....serious knee injury and came back will get mostly likely get 2k yards. That is saying something. If manning hit the 5k yards mark he could be up for it. Because both of those marks only have a handful of people who have hit it.

that's just it and why AP will not get the MVP. He got a new knee and has done quite well on it. I think the MD that performed the surgery should get the MVP. and no, the same cannot be said for manning. I never heard of a quarterback that threw with his neck

[PatriotsGuy]

quit screwing around PAGS

It just reminded me of something. A few years back when my daughter was about 14 she was talking about Nelly Furtado and I was like who the heck is that and so she was trying to explain and somehow during the conversation I dared her to make her facebook status "Nelly Furtado more like smelly retardo" and then when I saw she was going to do it I stopped her. Anyway, back to the ball washing.

[NightTerror218]

that's just it and why AP will not get the MVP. He got a new knee and has done quite well on it. I think the MD that performed the surgery should get the MVP. and no, the same cannot be said for manning. I never heard of a quarterback that threw with his neck

I think Manning will get MVP because of the turn around this team has gone. He improved the play of this team. AP is having a huge statistical year but his team is not going the distance on his legs like we are on mannings arm.

[BroncoNut]

I think Manning will get MVP because of the turn around this team has gone. He improved the play of this team. AP is having a huge statistical year but his team is not going the distance on his legs like we are on mannings arm.

good post Nighterror. I know we've had our differnces in the past, but right now you make me proud

[MOtorboat]

Just a friendly reminder that Adrian Peterson did have 970 yards of rushing and 12 touchdowns last year.

Manning didn't play.

[Simple Jaded]

I wonder if the rest of the Broncos team gets sick and tired of the ******* QB getting credit for their play.......

[broncohead]

Manning missed all of last season and AP played most of the season so I think Manning had more of a comeback to overcome. Not to mention Manning has made us a contender. AP does not do that for his team.

[slim]

How is Zam wrong in this? I'm sure a lot of people in Minnesota agree with
him, whether I do or not. Probably even some of the more objective people
in Denver aren't too sure.

We don't have to accuse Zam of being a troll every time we disagree . . .
.

He is wrong because PFM will win the award. He is also wrong because recovering from 4 neck surgeries (also unprecedented) is just as impressive as recovering from a knee surgery. He is also wrong because AP only missed one game last year and this award is typically given to a player that missed the entire previous year. He is also wrong because his spelling and grammar suck.

[BroncoWave]

He is wrong because PFM will win the award. He is also wrong because recovering from 4 neck surgeries (also unprecedented) is just as impressive as recovering from a knee surgery. He is also wrong because AP only missed one game last year and this award is typically given to a player that missed the entire previous year. He is also wrong because his spelling and grammar suck.

Many people who I consider quality analysts have said it should be AP. Honestly, if I were a Vikings fan, I'd probably be as gung-ho about him winning it as most Bronco fans are about PFM. Just because AP didn't miss any games doesn't make it a great comeback.

FTR I think Manning should get it, but to call either side stupid for picking one or the other is just ridiculous in this case.

[topscribe]

He is wrong because PFM will win the award. He is also wrong because recovering from 4 neck surgeries (also unprecedented) is just as impressive as recovering from a knee surgery. He is also wrong because AP only missed one game last year and this award is typically given to a player that missed the entire previous year. He is also wrong because his spelling and grammar suck.
Regarding his spelling and grammar, I used to teach high school level English,
and I see a considerable amount of that from various posters on this board.
Since we're not writing college essays here, I tend to ignore those gaffs.

Regarding who should win the award, I don't disagree with you. I would like to
see Peyton win it. I will admit, however, that part of that is for the reasons you
mentioned, and part of it is because he plays for the Broncos . . .
.

[slim]

Many people who I consider quality analysts have said it should be AP. Honestly, if I were a Vikings fan, I'd probably be as gung-ho about him winning it as most Bronco fans are about PFM. Just because AP didn't miss any games doesn't make it a great comeback.

FTR I think Manning should get it, but to call either side stupid for picking one or the other is just ridiculous in this case.

I am not saying either side is stupid, only that Zam is wrong.

[slim]

Regarding his spelling and grammar, I used to teach high school level English,
and I see a considerable amount of that from various posters on this board.
Since we're not writing college essays here, I tend to ignore those gaffs.

Regarding who should win the award, I don't disagree with you. I would like to
see Peyton win it. I will admit, however, that part of that is for the reasons you
mentioned, and part of it is because he plays for the Broncos . . .
.

My spelling and grammar suck.

Zam is wrong about who will win.

[Chef Zambini]

greeat posts great arguements.
AP and KM had essentially the same injury and operation , did they not?
while PM did take an entire year off, I think APs remarkable turnaround helps hi fior the award. and yes the DOCTOR and training staff deserve the award of some kind as well.
KM would be a contender if not for these two !
I think the comeback player award will go to AP and PFM will just have to console himself with MVP and perhaps a lombardi !

[topscribe]

My spelling and grammar suck.

Zam is wrong about who will win.
Congratulations! You spelled everything right in that post. :D

[ikillz0mbies]

PFM.

What happened to AP was bad and his rapid recovery is extremely impressive, but nobody ever doubted he'd play again. Nobody ever doubted his ability to return to form to do his job, and at this day and age, with guys returning from acl tears, torn triceps/biceps/pectorals, torn achilles tendons, and other muscle and ligament injuries at alarming rates, it's just not as impressive as it was say, 10 years ago. AP is also much younger (in his prime) and had a lot higher % chance of full recovery. AP also was injured in the last game of the season so he didn't miss significant time and the surgery he underwent is extremely routine in today's pro sports. DT tore his achilles last year (normally a year long recovery) and was back for TC - he wasn't a CPOY candidate.

PFM had to overcome nerve damage and 4 surgeries. Much harder to come back from. He's older and had to do his rehab in secret so he could focus and it wouldn't become a media frenzy. Peyton was also released by his team and had to adjust to not only new players, but a new training staff to rehab with. AP was able to have consistent rehab and year-round access to the same training staff. To date, Peyton is having the second best (QBR) season of his career and is not only as good as ever, he's an MVP candidate to boot at 36 years old, well past his physical "prime", which to me shows incredible mental resolve. Now, knowing that Manning has a very good chance at his 5th MVP, I can see him being the MVP and AP getting CPOY. (I doubt Manning would be awarded both).

THIS.

Peterson played 12 games last season and had nearly 1k yards.

Manning played NO GAMES LAST YEAR AND IS COMING OFF FOUR NECK SURGERIES AT AGE 36.

Manning has to at least win Comeback Player of the Year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Congratulations! You spelled everything correctly in that post. :D

Fixed it for you, teach! ;)

[DenBronx]

It will be Manning because they love to wash his balls.

Why are you thinking of Mannings balls and not Bradys? hmmmmmmm


Hands down it's Manning annnnnnnnnnd the MVP.

[DenBronx]

If Manning were only allowed to win 1 of those awards I think I would rather him win MVP.

[BroncoWave]

If Manning were only allowed to win 1 of those awards I think I would rather him win MVP.

Definitely. Comeback player of the year is nice, but MVP is remembered in history. Honestly, if voters decided to split them and give PFM MVP and AP CPOTY I wouldn't be mad about it.

[DenBronx]

Definitely. Comeback player of the year is nice, but MVP is remembered in history. Honestly, if voters decided to split them and give PFM MVP and AP CPOTY I wouldn't be mad about it.

I wouldnt be mad either but I'm stingey and I want him to have both.

[BroncoWave]

I wouldnt be mad either but I'm stingey and I want him to have both.

What would piss me off is if Gaydy wins MVP and AP wins CPOTY. Definitely a possibility. I don't think PFM gets left out in the cold for awards though.

[BroncoJoe]

I'd have to give the nod to PFM - simply because he missed an entire year, while AP missed only one game.

[Chef Zambini]

It will be Manning because they love to wash his balls.I went to a very high end golf course last week and they had these very fancy new ball washers at every tee.
When I looked for the model number, turns out these ball washers are called 'the brady"
.

[Chef Zambini]

What would piss me off is if Gaydy wins MVP and AP wins CPOTY. Definitely a possibility. I don't think PFM gets left out in the cold for awards though.let them have the awards as long as we take home the trophy !
has anyone ever been comeback player of the year and MVP?
in the same year?

[Chef Zambini]

I'd have to give the nod to PFM - simply because he missed an entire year, while AP missed only one game.but joe, doesnt that also speak to the remarkable nature of his comeback?
look at our own KM. he had a similar injury and operation and his re-hab took longer.
KMs own story is CBPOY worthy and in many ways it both helps and hurts the arguements for both manning and AP. I do like the arguement about PFM also having to change teams!
this is the most compelling in favor of PFM although I am not sure voters would consider it.

[Chef Zambini]

man, this is a great question Zam. Not like it's been being talked about on the major NFL networks lately. Man, you really do know your stuff!!! :buff:love the hostility and inherent anamosity.
sorry I am actually interstyed in what bronco fans think, what fellow forum members think. I guess I should just get my views and opinions from espn and be done with it. sorry to bother all you n ice people with this rhetorical thread that nobody has any interst in.

[tomjonesrocks]

Just give all the awards to Brady.

He's so hot. And Pats fans deserve it.

[Cugel]

It's PM in a landslide. There is ZERO doubt he wins that award.

During his rehab, people were questioning whether he could ever play again, and the discussion this summer was all "of COURSE Manning won't be the same player ever again after all his neck surgeries that he was in 2009 & 2010, but if he's even 80% of that player he'll still be better than 80% of the QBs in this league!"

Remember that line in all the media?

Well, right now he's having the 2nd best season of his entire NFL career (2nd to only his 2004 out of this planet season with 49 TD passes), and the only question is whether he is the League MVP for a record 5th time.

NOT whether he's comeback player of the year. AP is having a great season. But, QBs are more valuable than running backs.

How valuable is AP when his team can only win 6 or 7 games and are going to be out of the playoffs after a disappointing season? Not his fault of course, but the voters will look at how well the team does.

The Broncos are going from LUCKY to be 8-8 to 12-4 or 13-3 and a possible #2 seed in the AFC and 90% of it is due to Peyton Manning, while the Vikings are going nowhere (they have games remaining against the Bears, Texans and Packers).



It's just flat out no contest. :ranger:

[bcbronc]

I dunno, usually an ACL on a RB takes a full season to get back to 100%. AP's playing at a historic pace and missed, what, 1 game? To come back as fast and as dominant as he has is amazing.

The devil's advocate side of PFM is that while there was concern whether he'd be able to play again, there wasn't the same level of concern that if he COULD play that the injury would have long term affects. Either the nerve regenerated enough that he could play, or it didn't. It did, and he's ballin.

Probably the four procedures tips the scale in PFM's favour, but both are worthy and I'd have no issue with either winning.

[Joel]

What happened to AP was bad and his rapid recovery is extremely impressive, but nobody ever doubted he'd play again. Nobody ever doubted his ability to return to form to do his job, and at this day and age, with guys returning from acl tears, torn triceps/biceps/pectorals, torn achilles tendons, and other muscle and ligament injuries at alarming rates, it's just not as impressive as it was say, 10 years ago. AP is also much younger (in his prime) and had a lot higher % chance of full recovery. AP also was injured in the last game of the season so he didn't miss significant time and the surgery he underwent is extremely routine in today's pro sports. DT tore his achilles last year (normally a year long recovery) and was back for TC - he wasn't a CPOY candidate.
In all fairness, I must disagree: Peterson tore the ACL AND MCL in the same knee, prompting rampant media speculation about whether he would ever play again, let alone at the same unparallelled level. Repairing an MCL and ACL is far from routine surgery, and even if it were, repairing them and repairing them well enough for Pro Bowl level play are two different things. Being injured at the end of the year mitigated the impact on his 2011 stats, but not the fact a career-threatening injury sidelined him for months.


PFM had to overcome nerve damage and 4 surgeries. Much harder to come back from. He's older and had to do his rehab in secret so he could focus and it wouldn't become a media frenzy. Peyton was also released by his team and had to adjust to not only new players, but a new training staff to rehab with. AP was able to have consistent rehab and year-round access to the same training staff. To date, Peyton is having the second best (QBR) season of his career and is not only as good as ever, he's an MVP candidate to boot at 36 years old, well past his physical "prime", which to me shows incredible mental resolve. Now, knowing that Manning has a very good chance at his 5th MVP, I can see him being the MVP and AP getting CPOY. (I doubt Manning would be awarded both).
That's the thing: Peytons injury was also career-threatening, and any of those surgeries could've left him paralyzed if they went badly. He overcame both that obstacle and summary dismissal by the team where he'd started his entire career and two Super Bowls to perform at a Pro Bowl level with a brand new team at an age when many QBs are no longer performing at all. There's more to the equation than any one man, but the Broncos already have two more wins with Manning than last year, with three games left; the Vikings are better than last year, but still only a .500 team locked into third place in a very inconsistent division.

The commitment, tenacity, progress and accomplishments of both men are remarkable, and each would be a very deserving candidate for CPotY. It actually isn't an easy call, because Manning had slightly farther to go and faced more adversity, but Petersons performance is higher. Each is the lynchpin of his teams offfense, a role neither could retain without full recovery from injuries that could easily have ended their careers. All that said, I would give the nod to Manning just because the stakes were higher and he had to do it on a completely different roster, because even the guy who drafted him thought he was done.

[Chef Zambini]

joel I always enjoy and appreciate reading your posts, even the RARE occasions when i do not agree with you.

I also hope that other posters would look at the way you take on a subject weighing the merits of both sides of the arguemnet rather than dig in your heels and prepare to defend your opinion to the death, utilizing personnal attacks as if some how that would better support your view.


Joel, you are a role model for the kind of member that makes forums worth visiting.

[Joel]

joel I always enjoy and appreciate reading your posts, even the RARE occasions when i do not agree with you.

I also hope that other posters would look at the way you take on a subject weighing the merits of both sides of the arguemnet rather than dig in your heels and prepare to defend your opinion to the death, utilizing personnal attacks as if some how that would better support your view.

Joel, you are a role model for the kind of member that makes forums worth visiting.
I'm not sure how to respond except "thanks very much." I do my best, with mixed success, to be impartial and thorough (invariably precluding brevity; sorry. :redface:) I'm obliged to say the view at readandfindout.coms Community Message Board might be a bit different, with better cause than I like admitting; fortunately, I usually eschew politics here. ;)

[BroncoNut]

Joel is good people

[I Eat Staples]

I also hope that other posters would look at the way you take on a subject weighing the merits of both sides of the arguemnet rather than dig in your heels and prepare to defend your opinion to the death, utilizing personnal attacks as if some how that would better support your view.

Oh, the irony...

[Poet]

I never read an actual report that speculated the end of AP's career. If there were reports, they ended early. ACL injuries do not end many careers anymore and I do recall that early in the offseason it was reported he would be playing this year.

If you are going to give it to one player based on which had the worse injury, PFM all day everyday.

[zbeg]

AP has a legitimate chance at Eric Dickerson's record. I don't know who gets it, but if AP tops 2000 yards rushing (which is pretty amazing even when you aren't coming off an ACL/MCL/PCL tear less than a year ago), he deserves serious consideration at the very least.

I think as the season ends, the question won't be "should PFM or AP win comeback player of the year" but rather "which of these two is the NFL MVP?"

[BroncoNut]

Oh, the irony...

i was thinking the same way. the sad thing is is that Zam thinks he is the most rational, objective, thoughtful and accurate person to ever have lived.

[BroncoWave]

The one argument against Peterson that I don't think is really valid is the "he didn't really miss any games last season, so what is he coming back from?" argument. I've never seen the rule where you have to miss a bunch of games the year before to win CPOTY. I'm not saying Peterson should or will win the award, but I feel like that argument really diminishes what he has accomplished. If he rushes for 2000 yards that close to an ACL surgery that will be one of the single most impressive seasons ever by an NFL player, especially given that he is the only person on that offense who defenses really have to worry about.

[BroncoNut]

what is CPOTY? oh, nevermind. I figured it out.

also, does the CPOTY need to necessarily suffer a physical setback? could a "most improved" player (if you will) be awarded this recognition?

[CoachChaz]

Manning would be the choice for comeback player, but considerin what AP is accomplishing...without a passing game to help...I think he is the MVP right now.

[BroncoNut]

love the hostility and inherent anamosity.
sorry I am actually interstyed in what bronco fans think, what fellow forum members think. I guess I should just get my views and opinions from espn and be done with it. sorry to bother all you n ice people with this rhetorical thread that nobody has any interst in.

just kidding Zam. quit being a girl

[BroncoWave]

what is CPOTY? oh, nevermind. I figured it out.

also, does the CPOTY need to necessarily suffer a physical setback? could a "most improved" player (if you will) be awarded this recognition?

It pretty much always go to a player who was injured the year before. Although coming back from "sucking" to having a great year is an interesting concept.

[silkamilkamonico]

I wish they could give it to both.

For as much as I love Manning and think his comeback is remarkable, AP is simply more remarkable, IMHO. A RB, coming off an ACL tear and surgery, not only playing, but being the best RB in the NFL 7 months after major knee surgery (in which a RB needs to have working desperately) is ridiculous.

AP's body is a genetic freak, in the world of genetic freaks.

[Joel]

I never read an actual report that speculated the end of AP's career. If there were reports, they ended early. ACL injuries do not end many careers anymore and I do recall that early in the offseason it was reported he would be playing this year.

If you are going to give it to one player based on which had the worse injury, PFM all day everyday.
The Vikings are one of the four teams I like, though well behind Denver, Houston and Dallas (in that order.) When I heard about the injury my heart went into my throat and I was quickly scanning the net for reports of how bad it was and what the prognosis was. What I read everywhere was "MCL AND ACL tear, out for season, may never play again, and almost certainly not at a superstar level."

That doesn't make what Manning has done any less remarkable. His injury was even more serious than Petersons extremely serious one, and he has frequently made very clear how noodle-armed he was even months after the surgeries, when he was fully healthy: Even Manning began to doubt he would ever play again, but look at him now. It's close, but Manning's my choice for CPotY.

[Poet]

I never heard that in national news. I never read that on NFL.com. If that is the case, and you are not a liar, then those reports and speculation must have changed very quickly.

Some people thought that a good hit on Manning paralyzed him. A lot of people, including pundits who spoke to doctors, thought he would be out of the league very quickly. AP looks like he's going to be an all-time back and I love watching him play. But no one thought, at least for any considerable length, that his career was going to be over.

If the Vikings miss the playoffs, AP probably gets CPOTY and Manning gets MVP. If they both make the playoffs, I'd give them co-mvp and Manning CPOTY.

I reread this and it could come off that I am accusing Joel of being a liar. Joel is not a liar, I intended it to read "if this is the, and we all do know that Joel is not a liar." I apologize Joel, I unintentionally may have attacked you. This was not my intent.

[Chef Zambini]

king I salute you for clarifying your comments about joel.
not since warner has the NFL had a guy that was worthy of bothe awards, MVP and CBPoY.
this year there are TWO !
both amazing performances in years when both were doubted as even being participants !

[Slick]

I don't think you can go wrong with either guy. Both are studs.

Hopefully Peyton will be hoisting the Lombardi as they name him him Superbowl MVP.

[Chef Zambini]

CPOY, its down to those two!
MVP, other contenders.
weird, if it were not for those two, MORENO would be in the discussion !

[zbeg]

How much do you weigh the fact that teams have gone away from running the ball because it's become a passing league? AP having one of the greatest seasons for a running back ever - in any era - would be impressive, but these days I think it's even more impressive because that's not what offenses do anymore.

[Poet]

It's what his offense does, especially with a line built for run-blocking and a young QB who lacks offensive weapons on the outside.

[I Eat Staples]

How much do you weigh the fact that teams have gone away from running the ball because it's become a passing league? AP having one of the greatest seasons for a running back ever - in any era - would be impressive, but these days I think it's even more impressive because that's not what offenses do anymore.

I think that makes it slightly less impressive. Teams don't NEED to stop the run, because you can't really win without a passing game.

[zbeg]

I think that makes it slightly less impressive. Teams don't NEED to stop the run, because you can't really win without a passing game.

Yeah, I don't know which way to go on that. If it was easier to run, teams would do it more I think. But teams are also not trying to stop it as much. Maybe it's a wash.

[Poet]

It is easier to run, but it's better right now to throw the ball.

[Tebowtime2011]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
How is Zam wrong in this? I'm sure a lot of people in Minnesota agree with
him, whether I do or not. Probably even some of the more objective people
in Denver aren't too sure.

We don't have to accuse Zam of being a troll every time we disagree . . .
. I think he is wrong because AP will win MVP and manning will win comeback player of the year.

[Chef Zambini]

How much do you weigh the fact that teams have gone away from running the ball because it's become a passing league? AP having one of the greatest seasons for a running back ever - in any era - would be impressive, but these days I think it's even more impressive because that's not what offenses do anymore. side to that coin is that defernses now focus more on PASS defense, so a run game is more viable. its always about being ahead of the curve.
defenses build to defend against the downfield pass, the PAts introduce a 2 TE offense that renders 2 top corners moot.
so defenses design ways to stop pass catching TEs. the PATS develop a run game.
always being one step ahead of the adjustments, thats the PATS, thats winning football.

very few teams run the ball with any commitment these days.
so very few defenses are prepared to stop a bona fide all game long rushing attack.

most HCs are like shanny. shut down the first 10 run attempts and they go all pass happy !
they put the responsability for winning on the shoulders of their QB !
if the vikes didnt have a mediocre QB like ponder, they too would be ignoring their run game.
and nowadays some times the QB is the run game!
plenty of examples !

eagles, bears, cowboys.
3 teams that will take themselves out of their own run game.
these are the two most glaring and obvious, there are others !
hell, even the 49ers got away from their 'traditional" run game when their new toy kapernick took the field !

[zbeg]

It is easier to run, but it's better right now to throw the ball.

How so? If it's easier to run, then you should probably run, especially in situations where teams are throwing the ball because they can't run. The Packers desperately are looking for a running game, but they can't do it, so they don't. The Broncos try to run the ball, but with McGahee out, they are inconsistent at best. The Ravens have a great running back, but they are throwing a lot more than running.

It doesn't look like it's easier to run, otherwise teams would run a lot more when they have the lead.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't remember a closer race for either award.......

[Poet]

You cite McGahee and I think it strengthens my argument. You are struggling to run because you're missing your starter. The Ravens are throwing more because they can't just let the defense grind out the games for them. They used to hide Flacco, time will tell if they still need to.

Explain to me why the league is passing the ball more? The rules allow for passing the ball in chunks to occur. Running the ball is not nearly as important as it used to be. That's why the Packers and the Giants, the last two SB winners ranked last in rushing. It was largely irrelevant. Their lines were more built to protect their franchise Qb's and both teams had health issues at RB.

In a league where passing reigns supreme, you can run the ball if you really want to. Look at New England this year. They are a decent running team and can score that way, but when you think NE, you think Brady, Welker, Gronk and Hernadez. Ridley is an afterthought.

As of right now, the running teams are typically hiding a player. The Vikings want to hide Ponder and limit his throws. The Jets and the Falcons hide their young QB's behind a stout running game. Note that once Ryan got experience they have moved to being more of a passing team. The only true elite team that runs the ball primarily is San Fran.

You see more and more successful running plays because of the passing game forcing safeties out of the box.

[Chef Zambini]

I don't remember a closer race for either award.......especially with 2 guys vying for the same 2 awards !

[zbeg]

I don't remember a closer race for either award.......

I definitely didn't think either of these players would have this kind of season last Christmas. Both had legitimate concerns that they would be career-ending. Watching both has been a really nice unexpected treat this season.

[Simple Jaded]

I definitely didn't think either of these players would have this kind of season last Christmas. Both had legitimate concerns that they would be career-ending. Watching both has been a really nice unexpected treat this season.

Exactly, it could go either way and you'd have nothing to complain about. They're both very worthy candidates for both awards.

Tom Brady can suck a fart tho.......

[zbeg]

You cite McGahee and I think it strengthens my argument. You are struggling to run because you're missing your starter. The Ravens are throwing more because they can't just let the defense grind out the games for them. They used to hide Flacco, time will tell if they still need to.


I don't follow. If it's easier to run, then why would the Broncos have trouble running when their quality starter is out?

In other words, it's easier to long-snap the ball, so when the long-snapper is out, the backup long-snapper is going to be about as effective. The easier the task, the easier the replacement.



Explain to me why the league is passing the ball more? The rules allow for passing the ball in chunks to occur. Running the ball is not nearly as important as it used to be. That's why the Packers and the Giants, the last two SB winners ranked last in rushing. It was largely irrelevant. Their lines were more built to protect their franchise Qb's and both teams had health issues at RB

I think it's safe to say that it's easier to throw the ball (the rules enforcement on defensive holding has had a clear effect on the passing game), regardless. So why teams run more would be:

1 - It's more efficient to throw the ball than run the ball,
2 - It's harder to run the ball,
3 - Some combination of the above.

Again, if it was easier to run the ball, then teams would run the ball more when it's beneficial to do so. The Patriots were near the bottom in rushing last season, but had a very effective offense. However, the Patriots were in a lot of situations where running the ball would have been preferred to passing the ball (namely when they had a lead), yet they still threw the ball? Why?

It's not because the Patriots don't understand situational football. Passing efficiency at that point takes a backseat to clock management. If it was in fact easier to run, then teams would run more. There is more incentive to run in those situations. But that's not what we're seeing.

In other words, what I see around the league indicates that if it was easier to run the football than before, teams would be incentivized to run more than they do now. Teams choosing to pass in situations where there's incentive to run strongly indicates that running the ball is not easier.

[zbeg]

Also, regarding PFM's MVP choices - how the heck did Chris Johnson not receive a single MVP vote when he rushed for 2000 yards a few years ago? Not one.

I'm not saying he should have won outright (although I don't think it would have been a travesty by any means), but no votes? Zero? Really?

[Dzone]

Manning got cut by his former team, came back from neck and nerve damage surgeries, was written off as finished and is leading a totally new team to the super bowl. Manning is the Comeback POY hands down.

[Chef Zambini]

Manning got cut by his former team, came back from neck and nerve damage surgeries, was written off as finished and is leading a totally new team to the super bowl. Manning is the Comeback POY hands down.manning did not comeback to his team, he went elsewhere.
its not the wentelsewhere award.
AP cameback to his team.

just joking of course, the point about PFM is a valid one, I just dont think actual voters will show it much consideration.
PFM did have the much greater transition and far greater responsability as the QB, but the type of injury / surgery/ recovery that AP has displayed exceeds any previous example !

[Poet]

Zbeg, of course the Broncos are going to have a harder time running the ball when their starter is out. Much like the Broncos would have a harder time passing the ball if Manning was out. Losing a starter usually means loss of production. I don't understand what you're arguing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like you're saying that if running is easy it doesn't matter who the starter is? That argument is fundamentally flawed.

Last year the Patriots lacked the players to run the ball. They were in the process of overhauling their line. You're building a strawman by saying that if if running is easy you should be able to do it no matter what. That is nonsensical. Of course you're going to have to have some actual talent to run the ball.

Here's an example from my team: our opposition spends so much time worrying about Green and Gresham (when he's in the right personnel grouping) that Ellis has been on a tear that he's never had in his career. In a league where throwing is the norm, you see more nickel and dime packages on first and second down.

Now you can make the argument that it is harder to run the ball for the Vikings because their passing game is shit. However, that's the exception and not the norm.

[Simple Jaded]

manning did not comeback to his team, he went elsewhere.
its not the wentelsewhere award.
AP cameback to his team.

just joking of course, the point about PFM is a valid one, I just dont think actual voters will show it much consideration.
PFM did have the much greater transition and far greater responsability as the QB, but the type of injury / surgery/ recovery that AP has displayed exceeds any previous example !
My vote for the WentElseWhere Award goes to Tim Tebow. :D .......

[Joel]

I never heard that in national news. I never read that on NFL.com. If that is the case, and you are not a liar, then those reports and speculation must have changed very quickly.

Some people thought that a good hit on Manning paralyzed him. A lot of people, including pundits who spoke to doctors, thought he would be out of the league very quickly. AP looks like he's going to be an all-time back and I love watching him play. But no one thought, at least for any considerable length, that his career was going to be over.

If the Vikings miss the playoffs, AP probably gets CPOTY and Manning gets MVP. If they both make the playoffs, I'd give them co-mvp and Manning CPOTY.

I reread this and it could come off that I am accusing Joel of being a liar. Joel is not a liar, I intended it to read "if this is the, and we all do know that Joel is not a liar." I apologize Joel, I unintentionally may have attacked you. This was not my intent.
No harm, no foul. I think it's the "if" that creates the ambiguity (though few memories are infallible,) but I appreciate your meaning. In between work it's hard to find contemporary reports now, because googling Peterson and his injury mostly returns hits about how spectacular his comeback has been, but I did manage to find a couple reports from the time of the injury referencing it as potentially career-ending and likely to cause permanent impairment. At NBC, Mike Florio ended a pre-MRI article on the injury with "It could end up being the worst knee injury suffered by any Vikings player since Daunte Culpepper tore the ACL, MCL, and PCL in 2005. He never had the same mobility. Until Peterson plays again, Vikings fans will fear the same fate for their franchise tailback."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/24/vikings-bracing-for-very-bad-news-on-peterson/

Bleacher Report opined, "These are the injuries that running backs don't bounce back from. This is why they have exceptionally short careers. It's why there are so few featured backs in the league anymore.This isn't necessarily a career-ending injury, but it's hard to imagine Peterson ever being the same kind of back."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/997071-adrian-peterson-injury-star-rbs-injury-terrible-sign-for-fading-franchise

An ACL or MCL tear can be career-ending, and is usually career-limiting; Peterson had BOTH. Many people expected him back, though a number did not—NO ONE expected him to be chasing a 2000 yard season a year later. It's a really tough call, and there are many fine arguments that both players earned an award only one can win. I think the stakes were higher for Peyton though, and the injury more serious (difficult as that is to imagine in comparison to running back tearing TWO knee ligaments.)

[Poet]

I guess I just don't take those opinions seriously because they're more fan and pundit based. Not medicinal based. Then again, doctors weren't screaming that Manning's neck was going to fall off, either.

[underrated29]

Its AD hands down. I think we got hosed on both sides of the ball for these awards but AD going for maybe more than 2k and maybe an all time record something only 5 have done before....after his injury. Ah-mazing!

[BroncoWave]

Yeah if AP cracks 2000 it's going to be hard to go against him, as sad as that makes me. Pretty frustrating too. In almost any other year Peyton would be MVP but he just had to do it the same year as someone else has an absolutely historic season.

[Softskull]

I honestly think that Peyton doesn't give a shit if he's voted the come back player of the year, especially if he wins the SB. I get the feeling that the CBPOTY means something to AP.

Regardless, if AP breaks 2k, it's a no brainer. I love me some PM, but what AP is doing is ridiculous. If Peyton had come back the very next year AND if we were talking about an elbow or shoulder - there wouldn't be any discussion. Peterson as a RB explodes his knee then pushes for the rushing title AND record yardage nine months later. I'm not sure why there's even a conversation.

[DenBronx]

4 neck surgeries? Are you kidding me? Many said Manning would never play again and if he did he would be one hit away from being paralized. What AP had was very common...he healed fast...so what. I mean hes having a great year yeah but thats all the Vikings are doing....they just keep giving him the ball to pile on stats.


Manning went to a whole new team and is having the 2nd best season of his career.

[BroncoWave]

4 neck surgeries? Are you kidding me? Many said Manning would never play again and if he did he would be one hit away from being paralized. What AP had was very common...he healed fast...so what. I mean hes having a great year yeah but thats all the Vikings are doing....they just keep giving him the ball to pile on stats.


Manning went to a whole new team and is having the 2nd best season of his career.

Yeah, morons who don't know what they are talking about said that. Doctors said there was no such risk. What Manning had done is super impressive, but AP's season has been historic.

[Poet]

To be fair, rushing for 2k yards just happened recently. Find me another situation as unique as this. PM went to a team, installed his offense, with young players and made his team a SB contender. He's made the offense and the defense better. AP is a running back having a great season. PM is having one of the best years ever when you look at where and what he's doing.

It's Peyton.

[Softskull]

To be fair, rushing for 2k yards just happened recently. Find me another situation as unique as this. PM went to a team, installed his offense, with young players and made his team a SB contender. He's made the offense and the defense better. AP is a running back having a great season. PM is having one of the best years ever when you look at where and what he's doing.

It's Peyton.

Shut it King. Don't make me come on to my own Broncos Board and bag on our new master. You suck!

So here I go. The defense was improving because of a defensive minded HC and and very good DC. Throw in Von Miller and oodles 'o defensive draft selections that have panned out over the last two years and i think it unfair to give the credit to PM. Besides, this Def is geared to attack with the lead, something the PM et al haven't been that great at so far this year. I also think it fair to say that PM may have the best offensive talent that he's had since his Superbowl win. Again, I love the Manning and we're really comparing between 1A and 1B. But Manning this year is 1B. Peterson's injury on a QB would be Tommy John surgery. The neck issue was serious (grip is everything - right Mo?) but not the same as a double ligament detonation. I'm begging you King - come to your senses.

[zbeg]

Rushing 2k yards has never happened after a devastating knee injury. AP is doing this with a crappy quarterback where people are stacking the box, and AP is still excelling.

I think what Peyton's done is also remarkable, but I don't think it's a slam dunk in either way.

[Poet]

Shut it King. Don't make me come on to my own Broncos Board and bag on our new master. You suck!

So here I go. The defense was improving because of a defensive minded HC and and very good DC. Throw in Von Miller and oodles 'o defensive draft selections that have panned out over the last two years and i think it unfair to give the credit to PM. Besides, this Def is geared to attack with the lead, something the PM et al haven't been that great at so far this year. I also think it fair to say that PM may have the best offensive talent that he's had since his Superbowl win. Again, I love the Manning and we're really comparing between 1A and 1B. But Manning this year is 1B. Peterson's injury on a QB would be Tommy John surgery. The neck issue was serious (grip is everything - right Mo?) but not the same as a double ligament detonation. I'm begging you King - come to your senses.


ACL injuries are not really career threatening anymore. A degenerative nerve is and for a long time people were unsure of what the doctors were going to find. BTB pointed out a lot of ignorant fans and pundits made it sound like a strong sneeze would kill Manning. Still, the reasonableperiod of time where people thought Manning's career was over existed.

It never really existed for AP.

It is true that AP is in fact raping the league against stacked boxes. However, he beat the **** out of a Green Bay defense that is awful. He crushed the Bears who were without Urlacher and Tillman and Jennings were battered. AP is going to Canton, I love watching him play, but it does balance out a little bit is all I'm arguing.

Peyton Manning took his offense to Denver. He took two raw WR's and is making them stars. He took a mediocre playoff by default team and he made them a SB contender. He did. His numbers are as good as Brees, Brady and Rodgers. While he is not lacking for offensive talent, he has the least talent of the big four QB's. I'd even argue that he by far has less talent on offense than those other guys.

He has done this against a brutal schedule. He has an average running game and while the Moreno boost does count, it came late.

AP is having another big time stud year at RB. 2k yards is getting more and more common. Right now Peyton Manning is write a story, an epic story for the ages. It is worthy and will become a legend.

He is the MVP.

Only he, is the MVP.

[BroncoWave]

Shut it King. Don't make me come on to my own Broncos Board and bag on our new master. You suck!

So here I go. The defense was improving because of a defensive minded HC and and very good DC. Throw in Von Miller and oodles 'o defensive draft selections that have panned out over the last two years and i think it unfair to give the credit to PM. Besides, this Def is geared to attack with the lead, something the PM et al haven't been that great at so far this year. I also think it fair to say that PM may have the best offensive talent that he's had since his Superbowl win. Again, I love the Manning and we're really comparing between 1A and 1B. But Manning this year is 1B. Peterson's injury on a QB would be Tommy John surgery. The neck issue was serious (grip is everything - right Mo?) but not the same as a double ligament detonation. I'm begging you King - come to your senses.

I agree, I HATE having to argue against Manning but AP is just having a better season. He is the ONLY weapon Minny has, EVERYONE knows it, and he is still steamrolling teams. The Vikings are one of the least talented teams in the league but AP singlehandedly has them in the playoff hunt.

[BroncoWave]

ACL injuries are not really career threatening anymore. A degenerative nerve is and for a long time people were unsure of what the doctors were going to find. BTB pointed out a lot of ignorant fans and pundits made it sound like a strong sneeze would kill Manning. Still, the reasonableperiod of time where people thought Manning's career was over existed.

It never really existed for AP.

It is true that AP is in fact raping the league against stacked boxes. However, he beat the **** out of a Green Bay defense that is awful. He crushed the Bears who were without Urlacher and Tillman and Jennings were battered. AP is going to Canton, I love watching him play, but it does balance out a little bit is all I'm arguing.

Peyton Manning took his offense to Denver. He took two raw WR's and is making them stars. He took a mediocre playoff by default team and he made them a SB contender. He did. His numbers are as good as Brees, Brady and Rodgers. While he is not lacking for offensive talent, he has the least talent of the big four QB's. I'd even argue that he by far has less talent on offense than those other guys.

He has done this against a brutal schedule. He has an average running game and while the Moreno boost does count, it came late.

AP is having another big time stud year at RB. 2k yards is getting more and more common. Right now Peyton Manning is write a story, an epic story for the ages. It is worthy and will become a legend.

He is the MVP.

Only he, is the MVP.

Denver and Minnesota have an identical .485 SOS. Minnesota has a better strength of victory at .402 to Denver's .396. Can't really argue that Manning is doing it against a tougher schedule.

[Poet]

Denver and Minnesota have an identical .485 SOS. Minnesota has a better strength of victory at .402 to Denver's .396. Can't really argue that Manning is doing it against a tougher schedule.

The Vikings get a SOS boost from playing a lamed Chicago team. What boost did the Broncos get?

[BroncoWave]

The Vikings get a SOS boost from playing a lamed Chicago team. What boost did the Broncos get?

The Ravens didn't have 4 of their 5 top tacklers this week.

[Poet]

The Ravens didn't have 4 of their 5 top tacklers this week.

So we agree that they have a 2-1 advantage in that regard.;)

[BroncoWave]

So we agree that they have a 2-1 advantage in that regard.;)

So 2 games completely discredit what AP has done this season. Gotcha!

[Poet]

So 2 games completely discredit what AP has done this season. Gotcha!

You're smarter than that. It's a factor, be less dramatic baby girl.

[BroncoWave]

You're smarter than that. It's a factor, be less dramatic baby girl.

Ok fine, we also played a deplete Pitt D in week 1 without Harrison, Polamalu, or Clark. 2-2. Your move.

[Poet]

AP has played against five of the ten worst rush defenses in the league.

[Softskull]

King, you're an angry Bengal's fan.

So you compare Peyton to all the others. I agree. He's right in the middle of the upper tier pack. Let's do the same with Adrian.

He's rushing for 1812. Number 2? Marshawn with 1379 with virtually the same number of carries. Not even in the same league. And Marshawn had two intact knee ligs from last year.

I love the Manning, but you're so wrong. Manning is having a great year but his numbers aren't dwarfing the competition. Peterson is off the charts in comparison.

Take a deep breath. You'll see the truth. Peyton has played against five of the worst passing defenses in the league. It doesn't mean he's not a badass - he most certainly is. It just means he's taken advantage of his situation. AP does the same. But in a much more ridiculous manner. Any other year Peyton would be the hands down winner of this contest. This just happens to be an exceptional year.

[bcbronc]

AP has played against five of the ten worst rush defenses in the league.

Or maybe they're bottom 10 because they played AP?



So you compare Peyton to all the others. I agree. He's right in the middle of the upper tier pack. Let's do the same with Adrian.

He's rushing for 1812. Number 2? Marshawn with 1379 with virtually the same number of carries. Not even in the same league. And Marshawn had two intact knee ligs from last year.



This is why I lean slightly to AP. Manning is having a great season by any standard, never mind after missing an entire year. #6 in passing yards, #3 in passing TDs all while with a completely new franchise. Absolutely amazing what he's done.

But AP is on pace to have one of the top 5 yardage seasons EVER after blowing out a knee. All while missing, what, 1 game? It's crazy amazing. Manning would need to be on pace for 5000 yards to be as impressive.

Just looking at the comeback, AP's is more impressive. Peyton's nerve issue was either it would regenerate enough or it wouldn't. There wasn't a lot of concern that if Peyton returned that he wouldn't be the Peyton of old. With AP, not only was there concern that he might never get back to where he was, but the expectation was it would take at least a calendar year to even get to find out.

Whichever wins it, they both deserve it.

Something for perspective on both their expectations coming into this season...in my FF league AP was the 1st pick of the 4th round (behind 13 other backs -- I'm thrilled to remember I took Shonn Greene 2 picks previous...), Peyton Manning was the tenth and last pick of the 4th (behind 7 other QBs).

[zbeg]

King, you're an angry Bengal's fan.

So you compare Peyton to all the others. I agree. He's right in the middle of the upper tier pack. Let's do the same with Adrian.

He's rushing for 1812. Number 2? Marshawn with 1379 with virtually the same number of carries. Not even in the same league. And Marshawn had two intact knee ligs from last year.

I love the Manning, but you're so wrong. Manning is having a great year but his numbers aren't dwarfing the competition. Peterson is off the charts in comparison.

Take a deep breath. You'll see the truth. Peyton has played against five of the worst passing defenses in the league. It doesn't mean he's not a badass - he most certainly is. It just means he's taken advantage of his situation. AP does the same. But in a much more ridiculous manner. Any other year Peyton would be the hands down winner of this contest. This just happens to be an exceptional year.

This is starting to feel like the 2005 DPOY when Champ would have run away with it most years, but Jason Taylor picked that season to be slightly more ridiculous.

Or this year, for that matter. Miller would win DPOY most years, but Watt's going to run away with the award and rightfully so.

At least Elway barely dodged that bullet in 1987, since I guess nobody wants to give a wide receiver the MVP (Jerry Rice, 22 TDs in only 12 games because of the strike. 22! In 12 games! Whaaa??)

[CrazyHorse]

Here's how I see it
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
Comeback Player: Peyton Manning
Offensive Player of the year: Adrian Peterson

[Mike]

Here's how I see it
MVP: Aaron Rodgers
Comeback Player: Peyton Manning
Offensive Player of the year: Adrian Peterson

Why Rodgers? He isn't coming to a new team, with a different offense, and off a major injury. Manning completely changed the atmosphere in Denver in less than a season. Denver without Manning is competing with the rest of the dwellers in the AFCW.

[BroncoJoe]

If Peyton wins, fantastic. I will have ZERO problems if AP wins though. They're both deserving.

[Chef Zambini]

AP may end up with both.
PFM will have to console himself with another ring !

[BroncoWave]

If Peyton wins, fantastic. I will have ZERO problems if AP wins though. They're both deserving.

This is how I feel as well. Unless AP just tanks the last two games he should probably win it. Denver being an upper echelon team with Minny possibly missing the playoffs could sway voters toward Manning though.

[CrazyHorse]

Jamal Lewis and Chris Johnson both eclipsed the 2000 yard mark but neither of them got the MVP. What makes Adrian Peterson different?

[BroncoWave]

Jamal Lewis and Chris Johnson both eclipsed the 2000 yard mark but neither of them got the MVP. What makes Adrian Peterson different?

They weren't coming off a vicious ACL tear in week 16 of the previous season and didn't have an inept QB like Ponder with them.

[Poet]

Jamal Lewis and CJ had who for quarterbacks?

[BroncoWave]

Jamal Lewis and CJ had who for quarterbacks?

Ok I was FOS on that one. Lewis had Kyle Boller and CJ had Vince Young. You got me. :(

[UnderArmour]

If Adrian Peterson gets 2000 yards it needs to be him regardless of if the Vikings make the playoffs or not. This is one of the all time great years by a running back and no QB this year is breaking records or making history. Comeback player of the year should be Manning because he missed an entire season and MVP should be Adrian Peterson.

[bcbronc]

If Adrian Peterson gets 2000 yards it needs to be him regardless of if the Vikings make the playoffs or not. This is one of the all time great years by a running back and no QB this year is breaking records or making history. Comeback player of the year should be Manning because he missed an entire season and MVP should be Adrian Peterson.

I'm the other way around. MVP should go to Manning over AP (but other guys are also in the mix) if MIN doesn't make the playoffs. I never agree with an MVP not making the playoffs, because really who cares if you were that valuable to a non-playoff team. But comeback player of the year I can see going to AP because of the nearly miraculous rate of recovery.

[MOtorboat]

This is a lot like the Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera AL MVP debate this year.

And the playoff thing might just tip the scales.

[Poet]

I suppose it comes down to what's more impressive to you. I find that a QB going to another team and instantly making that team better, to be more impressive. Manning has elite numbers and he basically made the Broncos a SB threat.

AP is having a superior season, 2k yards, while more common these days, is still better than the numbers of Manning. The Vikings do have a shot at the postseason. If that is the case, I assume it will go to AP.

[zbeg]

Personally, I think MVP should be J.J. Watt, but since MVP really means "best offensive player," I guess he's not really eligible.

[artie_dale]

I don't see how PFM wouldn't win League MVP. I don't care about comback player. If PFM wins MVP, the comeback player ought to be a given (to Peyton). Having missed an entire season due to multiple surgeries, regain the strength in his throwing arm, learn AND TEACH a new offense (and he's taught some of the defense), he is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER on this Broncos squad and if he takes them deep in the playoffs, should be recognized that for the entire league. The only player who comes close is Brady (who's in the same familiar system he's been in) with AP (who's in the same familiar system) right behind. I can't give a hoot who wins comeback player. I think all three of those guys are MVP candidates.

[zbeg]

I think who will win (which is different than who I think should win):

MVP Peyton
Comeback player AP
Offensive POY AP
Defensive POY Watt

MVP voting is heavily QB-biased. And Watt's got no chance even though I think any suggestion that he's not having at least as good a year as Peyton or AP is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: Offensive rookie of the year unsure who will win. I think Luck should be the runaway winner, but I don't have a good handle on predicting who will actually win. Before he got hurt, I'd say RG3 but now I don't know.
Defensive rookie: Luke Kuechly

[CrazyHorse]

Why Rodgers? He isn't coming to a new team, with a different offense, and off a major injury. Manning completely changed the atmosphere in Denver in less than a season. Denver without Manning is competing with the rest of the dwellers in the AFCW.

Aaron Rodgers is having a better statistical season and he's doing it without a good running game or defense.


They weren't coming off a vicious ACL tear in week 16 of the previous season and didn't have an inept QB like Ponder with them.

Those are better arguments for comeback player but I think Manning's trump those.

[Bacchus]

If the Vikings make the playoffs AP has to be the MVP. If they do not make the playoffs than PFM should win it. Brady should just suck dick.

[CrazyHorse]

If the Vikings make the playoffs AP has to be the MVP. If they do not make the playoffs than PFM should win it. Brady should just suck dick.

Why not Rodgers? I've changed my mind and Offensive player of the year is a toss up right now between Peterson and Calvin Johnson.

[zbeg]

If the Vikings make the playoffs AP has to be the MVP. If they do not make the playoffs than PFM should win it. Brady should just suck dick.

Why should AP be penalized if his defense plays poorly the last two weeks of the season? The dude has been crushing 9 man fronts all season. Either he should be the MVP or he shouldn't.

AP's got a uphill climb because MVP really means "the best quarterback unless a running back is absolutely insane and then maybe we'll consider him but it's still probably the best quarterback, and suck it defensive players lol" J.J. Watt has been the best player in the league this season and he might get two votes if he's really lucky.

[CrazyHorse]

Why should AP be penalized if his defense plays poorly the last two weeks of the season? The dude has been crushing 9 man fronts all season. Either he should be the MVP or he shouldn't.

AP's got a uphill climb because MVP really means "the best quarterback unless a running back is absolutely insane and then maybe we'll consider him but it's still probably the best quarterback, and suck it defensive players lol" J.J. Watt has been the best player in the league this season and he might get two votes if he's really lucky.

I don't think making the playoffs should matter that much. Breaking the record on the other hand should. Need I remind you Jamal Lewis and Chris Johnson both had 2,000 yard seasons and didn't win the MVP.

[zbeg]

I don't think making the playoffs should matter that much. Breaking the record on the other hand should. Need I remind you Jamal Lewis and Chris Johnson both had 2,000 yard seasons and didn't win the MVP.

Right, because MVP is really "the best quarterback award" most years. Let's just call it what it is and stop pretending that it's actually the award for most valuable player (say, they should have an award for that).

[Poet]

FWIW, Calvin Johnson is having a more impressive season than AP.

[CrazyHorse]

FWIW, Calvin Johnson is having a more impressive season than AP.

Yep, he should be a lock for OPOY now unless AP gets the record.

[zbeg]

Is it crazy to think that Manning might be the 4th most deserving guy in MVP voting (after Megatron, AP, and Watt)? I love what Peyton's done and I know it's very impressive with a new system and everything, but those first three are having seasons like very few we've ever seen, if ever.

I'd love to see Peyton win his fifth MVP award (and I still think he's the favorite to do so), but I can't say I would be particularly mad or think it was a great injustice if any of those guys won it.

[pulse]

This has been rehashed many times but I feel like rehashing it again...

Say these words, "Most Valuable Player." Repeat. Repeat. Think about it. This is about the award for the most valuable player in the league this year. There is a reason that QBs have taken over the award the last twenty years. I am taking nothing away from Adrian Peterson. However, he is not the MVP in this league this year. And let me be clear. What Adrian Peterson is doing in a passing-oriented league is downright astonishing. However, I will argue that what the Vikings and Peterson are doing has a lot to do with why the Vikings are not a Super Bowl contender. The formula for winning Super Bowls in this league right now is excellent QB play in the playoffs, a defense that can rush the passer in the playoffs, minimal turnovers and ***enough*** of a running game to control the clock and play keep-away in the fourth quarter ( i.e. keep the ball out of the hands of the other playoff team's excellent QB). The formula is not pounding the rock the entire game with mediocre-to-bad QB play. This is unfortunately what the Vikings are doing with Adrian Peterson because it is the only shot they've got at winning any game right now. He is the most valuable player in the Vikings' offense because he is all they have to rely on at the moment. But if you insert an elite franchise QB on that squad, two things immediately change: 1) Adrian Peterson is no longer the most valuable player on that team. 2) They are probably winning or at least fighting for the NFC North crown right now. Conclusion, just because Peterson is the most valuable player to the Vikings' organization does not mean he is deserving to be the most valuable player in the entire league.

Is he the best halfback in the league? Absolutely, yes.
Is he the best offensive player in the league this year? I would argue that Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson are both as good at their positions and it is a toss up. Apples and oranges.
Are either of these players responsible for turning their teams from pretenders into real Super Bowl contenders? No.
I argue that Robert Griffin III is a bigger candidate for MVP or possibly even Wilson in Seattle, even if they are rookies! These teams have a legitimate shot and a deep playoff run because of the performance of these two players is making that winning formula. The Vikings do not have a legitimate deep playoff run in them, even if they were to somehow make the playoffs.

That all being said, there is no other player in the league that has done what Peyton Manning has done in any year. Please go find me another player that came back from four quality-of-life threatening neck vertebrae and spinal cord surgeries, took over the most difficult position in sports on a new team and lead that team to a first round bye in the playoffs? That is key. He is taking the Broncos on a legitimate Super Bowl run when he was under threat of losing mobility and motor-controls altogether. There hasn't been another sports figure to pull this off in the history of sports. This may be the most convincing MVP to the NFL Peyton has had in his entire career. End of discussion for me.

[DenBronx]

Manning now has 9 seasons with 12+ wins - An NFL record.

[Chef Zambini]

FWIW, Calvin Johnson is having a more impressive season than AP.FWIW I dont think any footba;ll fan outside of the motorcity wouls agree with you.

[SR]

FWIW I dont think any footba;ll fan outside of the motorcity wouls agree with you.

A lot of people agree with him.

[CrazyHorse]

FWIW I dont think any footba;ll fan outside of the motorcity wouls agree with you.

I agree and I don't live in Detroit. Johnson's lack of TD's is disappointing though.

[Poet]

I agree and I don't live in Detroit. Johnson's lack of TD's is disappointing though.

Is it really? He's double covered every time in the red zone and faces double coverage almost every snap.

Any Wr can be taken out of the game to that extent. The Lions just don't have another realistic scoring threat. Pettigrew is nice, but he's not going to beat you consistently. Titus Young is apparently a malcontent and the Lions still don't have a consistent back.

[CrazyHorse]

Is it really? He's double covered every time in the red zone and faces double coverage almost every snap.

Any Wr can be taken out of the game to that extent. The Lions just don't have another realistic scoring threat. Pettigrew is nice, but he's not going to beat you consistently. Titus Young is apparently a malcontent and the Lions still don't have a consistent back.

It's totally understandable but still disappointing.

[Northman]

Is it really? He's double covered every time in the red zone and faces double coverage almost every snap.

Any Wr can be taken out of the game to that extent. The Lions just don't have another realistic scoring threat. Pettigrew is nice, but he's not going to beat you consistently. Titus Young is apparently a malcontent and the Lions still don't have a consistent back.

Yea, i second that Pettigrew notion. He was very good when he first came in but down the stretch here he has actually been outplayed by Sheff.

[Poet]

Yea, i second that Pettigrew notion. He was very good when he first came in but down the stretch here he has actually been outplayed by Sheff.

It's not like they need another player of CJ's caliber, it's more like they need someone like a gritty number two WR who can hurt a team.

Only Detroit could waste the production of CJ. They really have become the new Bengals.

[slim]

It's not like they need another player of CJ's caliber, it's more like they need someone like a gritty number two WR who can hurt a team.

Only Detroit could waste the production of CJ. They really have become the new Bengals.

They wasted the production of Barry Sanders too!

[Chef Zambini]

from my seat, the lions bigger issue is that they have all those top picks and coin devoted to the defense and it just sucks !
this year, their run game has featured one injured player after another, also part of the dismal gameday performances.
could they use another receiver to make them pay for duobling megatron, of course, but...
that defense,JMHO, is a far grerater dissapointment with all thats been invested.

[Jsteve01]

from my seat, the lions bigger issue is that they have all those top picks and coin devoted to the defense and it just sucks !
this year, their run game has featured one injured player after another, also part of the dismal gameday performances.
could they use another receiver to make them pay for duobling megatron, of course, but...
that defense,JMHO, is a far grerater dissapointment with all thats been invested.exactly. Passing yardage isn't he problem. This one brings to bear much bigger question which is why is it that so many phenomenal defensive coordinators will see such poor performance from their defenses when they get head coaching jobs. See spags Wade and schwarz

[pulse]

Though I still feel the same as when I typed my previous post, I think AP has got the MVP now. He is deserving, no doubt; he did carry the Vikings into the playoffs after all. I still think Peyton's contributions to the Broncos and the league this year were more valuable. A first round bye with a new team? Really? I expected the Broncos to improve, but did anyone see the #1 seed being at play? On the other hand, I don't think anyone realistically expects the Vikings to be able to ride Peterson beyond the divisional round. Perhaps they can knock off Green Bay twice in two weeks. The game is going to be in Green Bay. That is asking a lot more out of Ponder than Peterson. Ponder is really going to have to show some greatness for them to pull off the upset twice. Win or lose, Peterson is going to get the votes at this point. Peyton could still take the Comeback Player of the Year award. Of course, Peyton doesn't care. All he wants is another ring.

[Chef Zambini]

a ring and a lombardi .
nice consolation.
I thnik PFM will accept his crumbs from the table.

[silkamilkamonico]

Peyton Manning should win comeback player of the year.
All Day should win MVP.

Phenomonal seasons by both, considering, and it's unfortunate you had a situation come where they were in the same year. Any other year they both could have very well won both.

[pulse]

This has been rehashed many times but I feel like rehashing it again...

Say these words, "Most Valuable Player." Repeat. Repeat. Think about it. This is about the award for the most valuable player in the league this year. There is a reason that QBs have taken over the award the last twenty years. I am taking nothing away from Adrian Peterson. However, he is not the MVP in this league this year. And let me be clear. What Adrian Peterson is doing in a passing-oriented league is downright astonishing. However, I will argue that what the Vikings and Peterson are doing has a lot to do with why the Vikings are not a Super Bowl contender. The formula for winning Super Bowls in this league right now is excellent QB play in the playoffs, a defense that can rush the passer in the playoffs, minimal turnovers and ***enough*** of a running game to control the clock and play keep-away in the fourth quarter ( i.e. keep the ball out of the hands of the other playoff team's excellent QB). The formula is not pounding the rock the entire game with mediocre-to-bad QB play. This is unfortunately what the Vikings are doing with Adrian Peterson because it is the only shot they've got at winning any game right now. He is the most valuable player in the Vikings' offense because he is all they have to rely on at the moment. But if you insert an elite franchise QB on that squad, two things immediately change: 1) Adrian Peterson is no longer the most valuable player on that team. 2) They are probably winning or at least fighting for the NFC North crown right now. Conclusion, just because Peterson is the most valuable player to the Vikings' organization does not mean he is deserving to be the most valuable player in the entire league.

Is he the best halfback in the league? Absolutely, yes.
Is he the best offensive player in the league this year? I would argue that Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson are both as good at their positions and it is a toss up. Apples and oranges.
Are either of these players responsible for turning their teams from pretenders into real Super Bowl contenders? No.
I argue that Robert Griffin III is a bigger candidate for MVP or possibly even Wilson in Seattle, even if they are rookies! These teams have a legitimate shot and a deep playoff run because of the performance of these two players is making that winning formula. The Vikings do not have a legitimate deep playoff run in them, even if they were to somehow make the playoffs.

That all being said, there is no other player in the league that has done what Peyton Manning has done in any year. Please go find me another player that came back from four quality-of-life threatening neck vertebrae and spinal cord surgeries, took over the most difficult position in sports on a new team and lead that team to a first round bye in the playoffs? That is key. He is taking the Broncos on a legitimate Super Bowl run when he was under threat of losing mobility and motor-controls altogether. There hasn't been another sports figure to pull this off in the history of sports. This may be the most convincing MVP to the NFL Peyton has had in his entire career. End of discussion for me.

*sigh*.... not to toot my own horn, but yeah... Clearly, even losing a mediocre QB is impossible to overcome in the playoffs. Adrian Peterson's presence has been rendered useless.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


But this argument isn’t about which player performed better, it’s about which one is most valuable to their team, taking the unit to a higher level do to his play.

When Peterson went over 100 yards this season, the Vikings only went 6-4 – his personal success didn’t always translate into team success. On the other hand, when Manning passed for 300 yards, the Broncos went 7-2, and 5-1 in games he tossed for three touchdowns as well. For Manning, individual success almost always means success for the team, because as a quarterback, his numbers are a product of connecting with multiple receivers. This season marked only the sixth time in franchise history the Broncos had four players over 500 yards receiving; Manning understands the importance of getting many people involved, making the offense more versatile and difficult to defend.

What sets Manning apart from Peterson is his outward leadership of the team; specifically, the offense. The old gunslinger knows what it takes to attain greatness in the NFL, being named MVP four previous times and winning a Super Bowl, and he’s pushed his teammates new and old to buy in to his system. They’ve done just that, taking on the intricate and sophisticated offense in an incredibly short period of time. When the game goes to commercial, Manning is there huddling his offense up and going over the small details that, when mastered, push a team beyond good and into the realm of greatness. That offense is the second highest scoring group in all of football and the scary thing for opponents is they’re only continuing to improve.

full article - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/06/denver-broncos-peyton-manning-must-be-nfl-mvp-over-adrian-peterson/