Fo -show MORENO

[Chef Zambini]

Gameball !

[BroncoWave]

Come repent Buff

[Northman]

Tebow!

[SR]

He looked good against a stout defense. Props!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[ikillz0mbies]

Can he do it again?

[Northman]

Can he do it again?

Do you want me to answer or MO? lol

[MOtorboat]

Do you want me to answer or MO? lol

Hey now, I noted all of his best games were against the Chiefs this week. You are right, he needs to build on that performance.

[ikillz0mbies]

The Bucs are up, who have a crap pass defense but their run defense is pretty good. Moreno did trip over himself at the end of the quarter though...

[Jsteve01]

Great thread. All of us critics need to man up an admit he showed out today

[Northman]

Great thread. All of us critics need to man up an admit he showed out today

Speak for yourself.

Ive seen him have a good game here and there. If he could continue this the next few weeks than we can talk about "manning" up. (No pun intended)

[Jsteve01]

Great thread. All of us critics need to man up an admit he showed out today

Speak for yourself.

Ive seen him have a good game here and there. If he could continue this the next few weeks than we can talk about "manning" up. (No pun intended) I said today

[Mike]

Good game for the kid. Looks like he took it to heart. Showed good patience, vision, and held on to the ball. Hope he keeps making progress like this.

[Simple Jaded]

I told you Slowshon was a stud.......

[I Eat Staples]

Moreno had a good game, but he still looks slow and lacks vision. If he can grind out some tough yards and run for first downs like he did today, then with Manning at QB that will be good enough.

We still need to draft Stephan Taylor.

[Northman]

Moreno had a good game, but he still looks slow and lacks vision. If he can grind out some tough yards and run for first downs like he did today, then with Manning at QB that will be good enough.



Agree with this part. Dont know enough about Taylor.

[LTC Pain]

Moreno earned another start ahead of Ball and Hillman. Good job KM. Way to step up when we needed you.

[Jsteve01]

Moreno had a good game, but he still looks slow and lacks vision. If he can grind out some tough yards and run for first downs like he did today, then with Manning at QB that will be good enough.

We still need to draft Stephan Taylor. I love Taylor but with his injury history and my doubts about his speed I'd settle for someone elseelse

[Simple Jaded]

Agree with this part. Dont know enough about Taylor.

Looks to me that Taylor is another Dime-o-Dozen RBBC NFL back but he has a lot of experience in a pro system. Good 3-4 round pick, imo.......

[I Eat Staples]

I love Taylor but with his injury history and my doubts about his speed I'd settle for someone elseelse

I think he'll be available in the mid-3rd round, which is where I'd like to take a halfback. I don't think they're worth using a 1st round pick on in a passing league. He's a strong runner that's hard to bring down, he can replace McGahee and hopefully Hillman can develop into a change of pace guy.

[Buff]

Aside from speed, the thing I've always felt was missing from Moreno's game is a combination of vision and patience. Over the first three years of his career, there were too many times where he should have waited for a hole to develop, or used a cutback lane, but didn't because he was always in a big hurry. The game seemed too fast for him.

Today he looked a little bit more like McGahee and less like the spastic Moreno of old. He showed some patience and some willingness to use his cutback lanes. That said, he's still a bit of a spaz. He trips over random stuff more than most RBs. I don't fully trust him to get his assignment right all the time. But I'm encouraged. I wasn't even sure he was capable of having a game like he did today, and he proved me wrong on that.

We'll need him down the stretch. Hillman is proving to be a 5 touch per game sort of guy, which is disappointing. Manning doesn't sound like he trusts Ball or Hillman to be the guy - so it's Moreno's job to lose for the rest of the way.

[underrated29]

Tampa has the number 1 run defense. Best in the nfl. Their pass d is the weakness.


Who is this Taylor guy?
I've heard of knife Davis, gillisee, monte ball, and I think a Stephen Gilmore.



Ps- north get down on your knees and suck knowshons D. He plays better when you give him some love!

[Simple Jaded]

Aside from speed, the thing I've always felt was missing from Moreno's game is a combination of vision and patience. Over the first three years of his career, there were too many times where he should have waited for a hole to develop, or used a cutback lane, but didn't because he was always in a big hurry. The game seemed too fast for him.

Today he looked a little bit more like McGahee and less like the spastic Moreno of old. He showed some patience and some willingness to use his cutback lanes. That said, he's still a bit of a spaz. He trips over random stuff more than most RBs. I don't fully trust him to get his assignment right all the time. But I'm encouraged. I wasn't even sure he was capable of having a game like he did today, and he proved me wrong on that.

We'll need him down the stretch. Hillman is proving to be a 5 touch per game sort of guy, which is disappointing. Manning doesn't sound like he trusts Ball or Hillman to be the guy - so it's Moreno's job to lose for the rest of the way.

Vision is still an issue, he misses more wide open holes than any RB should. Power is nearly nonexistent.......

[Simple Jaded]

Tampa has the number 1 run defense. Best in the nfl. Their pass d is the weakness.


Who is this Taylor guy?
I've heard of knife Davis, gillisee, monte ball, and I think a Stephen Gilmore.



Ps- north get down on your knees and suck knowshons D. He plays better when you give him some love!

Stepfan Taylor from Stanford.......

[Northman]

Ps- north get down on your knees and suck knowshons D. He plays better when you give him some love!

If he doesnt have a repeat performance next week he will be sucking my D. :D

[Army Bronco]

I thought Knowshon would suck today. Played much better than expected. Hopefully he keeps it going.

[BroncoNut]

Good game for the kid. Looks like he took it to heart. Showed good patience, vision, and held on to the ball. Hope he keeps making progress like this.

according to North and spikerman, Stevie Wonder may as well have had suited up

[Northman]

according to North and spikerman, Stevie Wonder may as well have had suited up

Dunno, if you couldnt see the cutback lanes that would of got him even more yardage (maybe TD's) than i dont think its just Moreno that is blind. lol

[Magnificent Seven]

The rust has been knocked off! Nicely Done, Moreno!

[BroncoNut]

Dunno, if you couldnt see the cutback lanes that would of got him even more yardage (maybe TD's) than i dont think its just Moreno that is blind. lol

well maybe it's my lack of football knowledge at this time

[TXBRONC]

He showed up today when we really needed him too. I wasn't surprised because his games have all come against the Chiefs. Now if can keep this up for next five weeks I'll be pleased as punch.

[Rick]

He played well today, hopefully he continues. maybe he will earn himself a new contract with us, I don't mind his sticking around if he proves worthy.

I did have to chuckle a little bit in the game today and say typical Moreno on one play when he had a lane, he pushes his blocker into someone, his blocker falls down and Moreno proceeds to fall over him.

[Simple Jaded]

DeAngelo Williams started out slow to start his career.......

[spikerman]

according to North and spikerman, Stevie Wonder may as well have had suited up

Touche. I do think he had a pretty good game, but like I said in another thread there looked to be some open areas of the field that he didn't see. If he can keep running like he did yesterday the Broncos should be fine.

[Northman]

DeAngelo Williams started out slow to start his career.......


Thats because he only started 2 games his first two years. Moreno started 22 games his first two years.

[BroncoNut]

Touche. I do think he had a pretty good game, but like I said in another thread there looked to be some open areas of the field that he didn't see. If he can keep running like he did yesterday the Broncos should be fine.

I respect the opinion of you and North. North's a bit more beause he didn't bust my balls on my fandom like you did. You may have something indeed. I'm still missing a lot probably. Not pro or big time anti Moreno at this point. like how he showed yesterday.

[CoachChaz]

I wonder what we would find if we put every running back in the league under the same microscope that we like to put Moreno under. When you guys find a back that hits every hole, finds every cutback lane, catches every pass and doesnt fumble...let me know.

[MileHighCrew]

He ran the ball well and that was good to see, but Manning was on his ass more than he has been and that I really didn't like. Part of that is on Knowshon

[BigDaddyBronco]

Loved to see Moreno cover up the ball with both hands after he got through the hole. He really seemed to understand his role yesterday and played well. Get some yards to keep the defense honest, pick up the blitz and protect Manning, and don't fumble. He looked like a pro yesterday.

[Mike]

I wonder what we would find if we put every running back in the league under the same microscope that we like to put Moreno under. When you guys find a back that hits every hole, finds every cutback lane, catches every pass and doesnt fumble...let me know.

I understand the doubt still remains, he still has a lot to prove. But yesterday he showed clear signs of improvement. We will see where he goes. But either way, I don't know that Denver wins without him yesterday.

[honz]

I haven't seen anyone mention his receiving ability that he showed yesterday. He made that nice diving catch and was able to make another catch over the middle in traffic and then turn it upfield for some YAC.

[Dzone]

The kid looked strong on every run. Even tough effort with great leg drive after the hit. Everytime he gets the ball, you gasp and hope he doesnt get hurt. Healthy, he can be a good back. He has fresh legs and will be our Arian Foster going into the playoffs.

[Northman]

I understand the doubt still remains, he still has a lot to prove. But yesterday he showed clear signs of improvement. We will see where he goes. But either way, I don't know that Denver wins without him yesterday.

Apparently according to Chaz, we need to crown his ass now. Funny considering this is coming from the same guy who thought LeSean McCoy was not a every down back and couldnt carry the load.

[Chef Zambini]

I wonder what we would find if we put every running back in the league under the same microscope that we like to put Moreno under. When you guys find a back that hits every hole, finds every cutback lane, catches every pass and doesnt fumble...let me know.coach, meet trent richardson.
this is what bronco fans expected with the 11th pick of the draft and FIRST RB taken.
KM played well, not stellar, but surprizingly well. he leapfrogged hillman and ball and justified the coaches decision.
"I think the boy got his mind right"
like many others, I wanna see more than ONE WEEK of fo-sho moreno !

[Chef Zambini]

I haven't seen anyone mention his receiving ability that he showed yesterday. He made that nice diving catch and was able to make another catch over the middle in traffic and then turn it upfield for some YAC.
catching balls out of the backfield has always been KM's best genre.
thats why I was the first to call him the astro-not, because he works well in space.
some of us are worried that he is so eager to sliup outside for a pass that he neglects his PRIMARY responsability of pass protection.
just how do you think he found the doghouse in the first place?

[CoachChaz]

So now I'm "crowning" Moreno as a superstar. This thread is getting stupid

[Dzone]

Crown his ass! Knowshon is da man now!
:pound:

[BroncoJoe]

So now I'm "crowning" Moreno as a superstar. This thread is getting stupid

Just north playing his typical lmao card.

Lame.

[silkamilkamonico]

So now I'm "crowning" Moreno as a superstar. This thread is getting stupid


I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion either.

[CoachChaz]

I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion either.

In fact...I dont think I said anything to praise Moreno. I merely mentioned that people have a habit of finding ridiculous reasons to bash a player once they decide they dont like him. Funny thing is...the hatred mostly stems from Moreno being a top 15 pick. Something he had absolutely NOTHING to do with. Wanna hate someone for that? Hate McDaniels.

But next week when we play a tough run defense and he doesnt get as many yards...it'll be all his fault. Retarded

[Ravage!!!]

he played alright. I liked how he would stumble for more yards when being knocked offbalance, and REALLY REALLY liked how he ran with two arms around the ball. I was worried every time he touched it that it would be a fumble. The only problem with him running with two arms around the ball, is it does slow a RB down when he's needing to find that quick cut-lane. So its a "pick your poison" type of thing until he can learn to hang onto the ball without having to keep both arms wrapped.

Until then, I'll keep the no fumbles.

[CoachChaz]

he played alright. I liked how he would stumble for more yards when being knocked offbalance, and REALLY REALLY liked how he ran with two arms around the ball. I was worried every time he touched it that it would be a fumble. The only problem with him running with two arms around the ball, is it does slow a RB down when he's needing to find that quick cut-lane. So its a "pick your poison" type of thing until he can learn to hang onto the ball without having to keep both arms wrapped.

Until then, I'll keep the no fumbles.

Having a back that doesnt fumble once per game is ok with me. I'll trade an extra yard or two for possession of the ball

[Thnikkaman]

So now I'm "crowning" Moreno as a superstar. This thread is getting stupid

Just look at who the comment is coming from.

[ShaneFalco]

Moreno had a good game, nothing spectacular.... Well see how he plays out the rest of the season.

[Northman]

In fact...I dont think I said anything to praise Moreno. I merely mentioned that people have a habit of finding ridiculous reasons to bash a player once they decide they dont like him. Funny thing is...the hatred mostly stems from Moreno being a top 15 pick. Something he had absolutely NOTHING to do with. Wanna hate someone for that? Hate McDaniels.

But next week when we play a tough run defense and he doesnt get as many yards...it'll be all his fault. Retarded


So what are you saying then Chaz? That people should not criticize any player at anytime? That all players are great and they are all on the same level talent wise? I mean shit, you rip into players so why the hypocrisy about this particular player?

[slim]

He played well.

I bet that made Buff mad as hell.

[Buff]

In fact...I dont think I said anything to praise Moreno. I merely mentioned that people have a habit of finding ridiculous reasons to bash a player once they decide they dont like him. Funny thing is...the hatred mostly stems from Moreno being a top 15 pick. Something he had absolutely NOTHING to do with. Wanna hate someone for that? Hate McDaniels.

But next week when we play a tough run defense and he doesnt get as many yards...it'll be all his fault. Retarded

You can't get mad at North for distorting your position if you are going to do the exact same thing to others on the same topic.

[Northman]

You can't get mad at North for distorting your position if you are going to do the exact same thing to others on the same topic.


Thank you.

Talk about ridiculous.

[CoachChaz]

You can't get mad at North for distorting your position if you are going to do the exact same thing to others on the same topic.

Really? Because no one was tearing apart his game despite having a good one? I guess I made that part up. My bad

[Northman]

Really? Because no one was tearing apart his game despite having a good one? I guess I made that part up. My bad

He had a decent game but i (and a few others) pointed out some of the flaws he's continued to have with his on field vision. Your all up in arms about that? Really?

[Superchop 7]

Vic Lombardi said he was singing "in the air tonight" at the top of his lungs coming out of the tunnel. Good for him. We have all watched a young man mature, we have seen perseverance, and he got out of it what he put into it. I tip my cap.

[ShaneFalco]

Vic Lombardi said he was singing "in the air tonight" at the top of his lungs coming out of the tunnel. Good for him. We have all watched a young man mature, we have seen perseverance, and he got out of it what he put into it. I tip my cap.

lol

[Buff]

Really? Because no one was tearing apart his game despite having a good one? I guess I made that part up. My bad

From what I've read, people seemed to give credit where it was due in this thread. He had one decent game - let's not get ahead of ourselves. People are critical of his game because his game has a lot of flaws, not because they are mad he was drafted #12.

[CoachChaz]

So what are you saying then Chaz? That people should not criticize any player at anytime? That all players are great and they are all on the same level talent wise? I mean shit, you rip into players so why the hypocrisy about this particular player?

No. My ONLY point was the kid could run for 200 tards and 5 TD's and inevitably, someone would rip him for hitting a wrong hole...even if he gained 20 yards doing so. But if McGahee did it...he would be worshipped. It's just the insane double standard.

If I rip Decker for his drops, many of the same people that tear into Moreno are the ones to quickly defend the great white hope. At the end of the day, both are average players and the only thing they are consistent about is being inconsistent. If Moreno laid an egg yesterday...the negativity would be warranted. But he didnt

[CoachChaz]

He had a decent game but i (and a few others) pointed out some of the flaws he's continued to have with his on field vision. Your all up in arms about that? Really?

All up in arms about it? Kind of how people get all pissy when I raise concerns about dropped balls and fumbles? I made an observation. That's all

[CoachChaz]

From what I've read, people seemed to give credit where it was due in this thread. He had one decent game - let's not get ahead of ourselves. People are critical of his game because his game has a lot of flaws, not because they are mad he was drafted #12.

Fine. I never said we should hand the keys to the city to him or crown him or anything of the sort.

[Northman]

No. My ONLY point was the kid could run for 200 tards and 5 TD's and inevitably, someone would rip him for hitting a wrong hole...even if he gained 20 yards doing so. But if McGahee did it...he would be worshipped. It's just the insane double standard.

Who exactly? Please post examples of this? If ******* KnowMo did exactly that i would jizz myself. But lets not kid ourselves. He had 85 yds and ran hard. Thats it. Sure, he gets credit because we need him to step it up but come on. You act is if he did go for 200. If McGahee did the same thing yesterday i wouldnt be going nuts, it would just be business as usual. But the difference is McGahee does these kinds of things more consistenly. My only hope is that Moreno can continue to do what he did yesterday. Sure, the Bucs run D is #1 so im not expecting much there but surely down the line he should be able to do what he did yesterday. I dont have my hopes up as so far he has proven me right but im always game for him to prove me wrong because its best for the team.


If I rip Decker for his drops, many of the same people that tear into Moreno are the ones to quickly defend the great white hope. At the end of the day, both are average players and the only thing they are consistent about is being inconsistent. If Moreno laid an egg yesterday...the negativity would be warranted. But he didnt

I personally never said Decker was an allstar, maybe someone else did i dont know. What i do know is at this point Decker is no worse than Eddie Mac was at this point in their careers. Eddie Mac was not a HOF WR and i also stated that if Decker can be that same kind of player than awesome for us. But if we are going to compare these players than i would say advantage Decker because he wasnt a first round draft choice whereas more was expected from Moreno. And yes, its not Knowshon's fault he was drafted in the first round but he was also projected to go there so SOMEBODY would of done it if not the Broncos. We can play the whole "not every player lives up to expectations game" but the reality is more was definitely expected from him and right now at this time he hasnt lived up to it in my opinion. You could probably get any back much cheaper than what we paid him to do man.

[Nomad]

I'll give Knowson the keys to Denver if he hurdles over Ray Lewis.

[rationalfan]

haters gonna hate.

[weazel]

Moreno had a good game. I can't help but think that it wont be long before he lays down some cardboard, turns on a beatbox and starts breakdancing in the backfield again.

[Northman]

I'll give Knowson the keys to Denver if he hurdles over Ray Lewis.

Somewhere Tatum Bell is smiling in a phone kiosk.

[G_Money]

Moreno did more than I expected him to do. He hit holes with authority when they were there and had better vision than he was showing previously. I still don't like his lack of leg drive - if it's 3rd and 1 I don't want to give him the ball because I don't like his yards-after-contact potential. One of the reasons I like throwing the ball to him on short passes is that he can get 5 easy yards that way. On a crowded line, it'll be harder for him. He's not gonna carry people for positive yardage.

So I think to some extent he duplicates Hillman, except Hillman is faster. But I have no complaints about his performance Sunday. When there was a hole, he ran his ass off into it instead of debating it until the hole closed. That's progress. The comments about him working tirelessly and without complaint on the scout team were good to hear too. He might get himself some sort of career as a backup RB yet.

I still want a pile-driver RB in the draft, though. Stepfan Taylor fits the bill, and there are others. Knowshon still didn't show me anything that says I want my offense relying on him to convert crucial downs or yardage - and since he's a backup, that's fine.

If he can give us the rest of the year just what he did Sunday, that'll satisfy me. Manning can handle the rest.

~G

[tomjonesrocks]

Moreno, with the lowest of expectations coming into the game, did his job and contributed. I think some of the high praise is funny--it's not like he set the field on fire. Just shows how little people expect from him.

He's a china doll though so hopefully he can hold up for half a season.

After that though I hope he's no longer a Bronco. This team badly needs to upgrade this position.

[bcbronc]

He had 85 yds and ran hard. Thats it.

111 actually.

[I Eat Staples]

111 actually.

He had 20 carries for 85 yards, I guess the 111 is total yards counting receptions.

[cmc0605]

The point people don't understand about Knowshon Moreno (especially those suspiciously religious about how bad he is) is that while he failed up to live to the status of someone like Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, etc, he still is and always has been extremely serviceable. The people who are saying that he didn't light up the field yesterday or get 200 yards are missing that he still averaged 4.2 ypc (including some no gains or losses in obvious running situations at the end there to kill time); he also averaged 4.8 ypc last season. He's also the most dangerous RB option we have receiving, which is good in a Peyton offense. That is very good for an NFL runningback. Let's not forget that defenses get paid too.

This is also Moreno's fourth year in the league, but when you include things like injuries, he's had less than two full seasons as a "starter." In Willis McGahee's first 3 seasons (where he played) he averaged 4, 3.8, and 3.8 ypc, but actually got better in his later years as he was put into better environments. The point is not to compare, but to point out that when given a good opportunity, things might turn out different than when 11 guys can stack the box because there is no threat of a passing game (like last year). And if people actually understood what they were watching, they'd know that Knowshon has actually done a decent job historically when he's not running into a wall of defenders or getting killed in the backfield.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Knowshon is not going to carry the team and carry half of the defense 10 yards on his back, but he has earned the right to be a #1 or #2 runningback and get playing time and contribute without idiots filling up a whole page on broncosforums if he trips on one play.

[CoachChaz]

The point people don't understand about Knowshon Moreno (especially those suspiciously religious about how bad he is) is that while he failed up to live to the status of someone like Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, etc, he still is and always has been extremely serviceable. The people who are saying that he didn't light up the field yesterday or get 200 yards are missing that he still averaged 4.2 ypc (including some no gains or losses in obvious running situations at the end there to kill time); he also averaged 4.8 ypc last season. He's also the most dangerous RB option we have receiving, which is good in a Peyton offense. That is very good for an NFL runningback. Let's not forget that defenses get paid too.

This is also Moreno's fourth year in the league, but when you include things like injuries, he's had less than two full seasons as a "starter." In Willis McGahee's first 3 seasons (where he played) he averaged 4, 3.8, and 3.8 ypc, but actually got better in his later years as he was put into better environments. The point is not to compare, but to point out that when given a good opportunity, things might turn out different than when 11 guys can stack the box because there is no threat of a passing game (like last year). And if people actually understood what they were watching, they'd know that Knowshon has actually done a decent job historically when he's not running into a wall of defenders or getting killed in the backfield.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Knowshon is not going to carry the team and carry half of the defense 10 yards on his back, but he has earned the right to be a #1 or #2 runningback and get playing time and contribute without idiots filling up a whole page on broncosforums if he trips on one play.

You're in trouble now

[bcbronc]

He had 20 carries for 85 yards, I guess the 111 is total yards counting receptions.

Why wouldn't his receiving yards count? 24 touches for 111 yards is a solid game.

[underrated29]

Why wouldn't his receiving yards count? 24 touches for 111 yards is a solid game.



duh, because RBs job is only to run the ball. The receiving stuff doesnt matter. Just ask MJD, Foster, Mccoy, Rice, Steven Jackson.......I have made that point over and over and over again. Knowshon has gone over 100 total Yards in something like 90% off games where he has had 15 or more touches.

Somehow, though, because it is knowshon those yards are not applicable. For any other RB or WR or any player in Fantasy football, those are great numbers. Knowshon, though, they suck ass.

[BroncoWave]

duh, because RBs job is only to run the ball. The receiving stuff doesnt matter. Just ask MJD, Foster, Mccoy, Rice, Steven Jackson.......I have made that point over and over and over again. Knowshon has gone over 100 total Yards in something like 90% off games where he has had 15 or more touches.

Somehow, though, because it is knowshon those yards are not applicable. For any other RB or WR or any player in Fantasy football, those are great numbers. Knowshon, though, they suck ass.

What's even funnier is that Hillman has shown even less than Knowshon did at this point of his career but Hillman still gets a complete pass while Knowshon has been bashed since day 1.

[Northman]

The point people don't understand about Knowshon Moreno (especially those suspiciously religious about how bad he is) is that while he failed up to live to the status of someone like Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, etc, he still is and always has been extremely serviceable. The people who are saying that he didn't light up the field yesterday or get 200 yards are missing that he still averaged 4.2 ypc (including some no gains or losses in obvious running situations at the end there to kill time); he also averaged 4.8 ypc last season. He's also the most dangerous RB option we have receiving, which is good in a Peyton offense. That is very good for an NFL runningback. Let's not forget that defenses get paid too.

This is also Moreno's fourth year in the league, but when you include things like injuries, he's had less than two full seasons as a "starter." In Willis McGahee's first 3 seasons (where he played) he averaged 4, 3.8, and 3.8 ypc, but actually got better in his later years as he was put into better environments. The point is not to compare, but to point out that when given a good opportunity, things might turn out different than when 11 guys can stack the box because there is no threat of a passing game (like last year). And if people actually understood what they were watching, they'd know that Knowshon has actually done a decent job historically when he's not running into a wall of defenders or getting killed in the backfield.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Knowshon is not going to carry the team and carry half of the defense 10 yards on his back, but he has earned the right to be a #1 or #2 runningback and get playing time and contribute without idiots filling up a whole page on broncosforums if he trips on one play.

Yes, he is a "servicable' yet overpaid backup. Glad we finally agree.

[BroncoWave]

Yes, he is a "servicable' yet overpaid backup.

He is making less than a million bucks this season.

[weazel]

duh, because RBs job is only to run the ball. The receiving stuff doesnt matter. Just ask MJD, Foster, Mccoy, Rice, Steven Jackson.......I have made that point over and over and over again. Knowshon has gone over 100 total Yards in something like 90% off games where he has had 15 or more touches.

Somehow, though, because it is knowshon those yards are not applicable. For any other RB or WR or any player in Fantasy football, those are great numbers. Knowshon, though, they suck ass.

yeah but Knowshon missed two field goals today, that's gotta stop.

[Northman]

He is making less than a million bucks this season.


If he is making more than Ball and Hillman he is overpaid.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Knowshon did better than I expected.

[BroncoWave]

If he is making more than Ball and Hillman he is overpaid.

Given that he is better than both of those guys, not really.

[I Eat Staples]

Why wouldn't his receiving yards count? 24 touches for 111 yards is a solid game.

I'm not saying they don't count, I was just saying that the person you corrected wasn't wrong, they were just talking about rushing yards.

[Buff]

The point people don't understand about Knowshon Moreno (especially those suspiciously religious about how bad he is) is that while he failed up to live to the status of someone like Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, etc, he still is and always has been extremely serviceable. The people who are saying that he didn't light up the field yesterday or get 200 yards are missing that he still averaged 4.2 ypc (including some no gains or losses in obvious running situations at the end there to kill time); he also averaged 4.8 ypc last season. He's also the most dangerous RB option we have receiving, which is good in a Peyton offense. That is very good for an NFL runningback. Let's not forget that defenses get paid too.

This is also Moreno's fourth year in the league, but when you include things like injuries, he's had less than two full seasons as a "starter." In Willis McGahee's first 3 seasons (where he played) he averaged 4, 3.8, and 3.8 ypc, but actually got better in his later years as he was put into better environments. The point is not to compare, but to point out that when given a good opportunity, things might turn out different than when 11 guys can stack the box because there is no threat of a passing game (like last year). And if people actually understood what they were watching, they'd know that Knowshon has actually done a decent job historically when he's not running into a wall of defenders or getting killed in the backfield.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Knowshon is not going to carry the team and carry half of the defense 10 yards on his back, but he has earned the right to be a #1 or #2 runningback and get playing time and contribute without idiots filling up a whole page on broncosforums if he trips on one play.

The backlash against the backlash has spiraled out of control, to the point where you guys are ready to put Knowshon in the HOF to spite his critics. God, you are so condescending it hurts.

But I'm going to sit here and bear it, because Knowshon put up 80-some yards and might be able to walk on water.

[Thnikkaman]

North is right, we can't feel happy for a guy that showed some potential after being benched for most of the season. We should demand the kid cut from the team so that we can see someone else who might be moderately better or worse play. I mean, the Broncos could put me in and I'd get 111 yards against the lowly Chiefs and I would do it for free because sacrificing my mind and body for the Denver Broncos is payment enough.

[weazel]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SAUCED.jpg

[Buff]

North is right, we can't feel happy for a guy that showed some potential after being benched for most of the season. We should demand the kid cut from the team so that we can see someone else who might be moderately better or worse play. I mean, the Broncos could put me in and I'd get 111 yards against the lowly Chiefs and I would do it for free because sacrificing my mind and body for the Denver Broncos is payment enough.

This has turned into a Tim Tebow/Ron Paul sort of thing.

[BroncoJoe]

This has turned into a Tim Tebow/Ron Paul sort of thing.

I first came to the Freak, and now the Forum for Broncos talk. Gotta be honest - the lounge and other areas are FAR more enjoyable now. Everyone is a fricking expert know-it-all I'm better than you you're a dumbass watch the game you moron this player this that player that type of person/poster.

Maybe I need a vacation.

[Nomad]

I first came to the Freak, and now the Forum for Broncos talk. Gotta be honest - the lounge and other areas are FAR more enjoyable now. Everyone is a fricking expert know-it-all I'm better than you you're a dumbass watch the game you moron this player this that player that type of person/poster.

Maybe I need a vacation.

I still want to see Moreno hurdle over Lewis. I heard on ESPN Radio, Lewis will return for the BRONCOS game.

[Thnikkaman]

I first came to the Freak, and now the Forum for Broncos talk. Gotta be honest - the lounge and other areas are FAR more enjoyable now. Everyone is a fricking expert know-it-all I'm better than you you're a dumbass watch the game you moron this player this that player that type of person/poster.

Maybe I need a vacation.

I apologize for my snark; that being said, your post above is exactly how I feel about team related discussions. It seems like it's not enough to just enjoy having a team that is playing winning football.

[CoachChaz]

I wont exclude myself entirely, but it has turned into a place where any opinion or observation is typically taken out of context and blown up into something it isnt...and done so with hatred and resentment. Without naming names, there are a few that do this with almost every thought that isnt their own. The days of civil conversation are past us, apparently. It's sad when religious and political conversations are had with less idiocy than football talk.

[Northman]

The backlash against the backlash has spiraled out of control, to the point where you guys are ready to put Knowshon in the HOF to spite his critics. God, you are so condescending it hurts.

But I'm going to sit here and bear it, because Knowshon put up 80-some yards and might be able to walk on water.

Naaaah, just start complaining about how much Eric Decker sucks. You know who he is right? The 3rd rounder not expected to do much? He is much more disappointing than a #12 overall kind of guy. :lol:

[Northman]

North is right, we can't feel happy for a guy that showed some potential after being benched for most of the season. We should demand the kid cut from the team so that we can see someone else who might be moderately better or worse play. I mean, the Broncos could put me in and I'd get 111 yards against the lowly Chiefs and I would do it for free because sacrificing my mind and body for the Denver Broncos is payment enough.

Hmm, nope. I never said you couldnt be happy for the guy. Not one time.

[BroncoWave]

Naaaah, just start complaining about how much Eric Decker sucks. You know who he is right? The 3rd rounder not expected to do much? He is much more disappointing than a #12 overall kind of guy. :lol:

Where a player was drafted is only important when evaluating a team's front office. It's not a player's fault where he was drafted. Just because Moreno hasn't played like a first rounder doesn't mean he's worthless and has no value to the team.

[CoachChaz]

Naaaah, just start complaining about how much Eric Decker sucks. You know who he is right? The 3rd rounder not expected to do much? He is much more disappointing than a #12 overall kind of guy. :lol:

Perfect example

[Northman]

I wont exclude myself entirely, but it has turned into a place where any opinion or observation is typically taken out of context and blown up into something it isnt...and done so with hatred and resentment.

Happens to me all the time.

[CoachChaz]

Happens to me all the time.

Happens to a lot of people. For example...I can think of one person in particular that has a problem with Decker...that's ME. However, my problem is pretty much limited to his ability to separate, his dropped balls and his tendency to shy away from the tackling of a cornerback. I'm patient to wait for improvement, but I havent seen it yet. People can throw all that stats at me they want, but I know Manning helps those numbers A LOT.

To the point, neither I nor anyone else that might have an issue with Decker has ever compared his abilities or production to Moreno's in regard to their draft status "expectations". But someone did make a mention of it, despite that fact.

[MOtorboat]

coach, meet trent richardson.
this is what bronco fans expected with the 11th pick of the draft and FIRST RB taken.
KM played well, not stellar, but surprizingly well. he leapfrogged hillman and ball and justified the coaches decision.
"I think the boy got his mind right"
like many others, I wanna see more than ONE WEEK of fo-sho moreno !

Trent Richardson has more injury issues than Moreno, more fumbles, less yards less yards per carry and less touchdowns than Moreno had in his first season. I realize there are games to play, but come on...

[Northman]

Happens to a lot of people. For example...I can think of one person in particular that has a problem with Decker...that's ME. However, my problem is pretty much limited to his ability to separate, his dropped balls and his tendency to shy away from the tackling of a cornerback. I'm patient to wait for improvement, but I havent seen it yet. People can throw all that stats at me they want, but I know Manning helps those numbers A LOT.


WOW.

And guess what. This is how i feel about Moreno and his abilities yet im being "irrational" according to you. Funny how people see things differently.

[Northman]

Where a player was drafted is only important when evaluating a team's front office. It's not a player's fault where he was drafted. Just because Moreno hasn't played like a first rounder doesn't mean he's worthless and has no value to the team.

Yes, Moreno has no more/less value than Ball or Hillman. Your 100% correct. But, again not much was expected from Ball or Hillman. You draft guys who are going to be difference makers. If you simply cannot comprehend what that means than i cant help you.

[CoachChaz]

WOW.

And guess what. This is how i feel about Moreno and his abilities yet im being "irrational" according to you. Funny how people see things differently.

Did I use the word "irrational"? Nope. I think the difference is if Decker has a solid game...I can applaud him for it as opposed to nit-picking a few things he didnt do "correctly" after riding the pine for 6 weeks. But hey...he was a first round pick...there is NO excuse for mediocrity

[Northman]

Did I use the word "irrational"? Nope. I think the difference is if Decker has a solid game...I can applaud him for it as opposed to nit-picking a few things he didnt do "correctly" after riding the pine for 6 weeks. But hey...he was a first round pick...there is NO excuse for mediocrity

So your going to flip your lid because we simply pointed out he still had issues with some of his flaws? This is what has gotten you guys all worked up today? Really? Jesus christ man, come on.

[Northman]

Maybe its just time for Tned to make some more "positive" only threads for you guys. Just a suggestion.

[spikerman]

I respect the opinion of you and North. North's a bit more beause he didn't bust my balls on my fandom like you did. You may have something indeed. I'm still missing a lot probably. Not pro or big time anti Moreno at this point. like how he showed yesterday.

I can't believe how much you've busted my balls over an innocent question. hahahaha

[I Eat Staples]

I first came to the Freak, and now the Forum for Broncos talk. Gotta be honest - the lounge and other areas are FAR more enjoyable now. Everyone is a fricking expert know-it-all I'm better than you you're a dumbass watch the game you moron this player this that player that type of person/poster.

Maybe I need a vacation.

By complaining about people complaining, aren't you just adding to the perpetual cycle of complaints?

If you don't like what certain people post, it's easier to just skim over them than let it bother you.

[honz]

If he is making more than Ball and Hillman he is overpaid.
Why? He's better than they are IMO.

[honz]

Where a player was drafted is only important when evaluating a team's front office. It's not a player's fault where he was drafted. Just because Moreno hasn't played like a first rounder doesn't mean he's worthless and has no value to the team.
Moreno should have told teams he could only be drafted in the 3rd round or later based on his skills and talent. What ever happened to integrity?

[BroncoJoe]

By complaining about people complaining, aren't you just adding to the perpetual cycle of complaints?

If you don't like what certain people post, it's easier to just skim over them than let it bother you.

Just saying it gets a bit old someone saying the sky is blue, and invariably someone else will counter no it's not - it's grey.

[LTC Pain]

By complaining about people complaining, aren't you just adding to the perpetual cycle of complaints?

If you don't like what certain people post, it's easier to just skim over them than let it bother you.

Or, use the User CP to put people on ignore. It's very helpful.

[BroncoJoe]

Or, use the User CP to put people on ignore. It's very helpful.

LOL - not really - people quote people all the time!

It's not that big a deal where I feel I have to ignore posters. Just commentary. Arguing is a way of life here.

[Thnikkaman]

It would be nice if the arguing was constructive.

[LTC Pain]

It would be nice if the arguing was constructive.

Posters responding with some form of "stupid" is neither an argument or constructive.

[Thnikkaman]

Posters responding with some form of "stupid" is neither an argument or constructive.

Considering constructive arguments usually critique the opinion and not the person making that opinion, I would have to agree.

[rationalfan]

I first came to the Freak, and now the Forum for Broncos talk. Gotta be honest - the lounge and other areas are FAR more enjoyable now. Everyone is a fricking expert know-it-all I'm better than you you're a dumbass watch the game you moron this player this that player that type of person/poster.

Maybe I need a vacation.

totally agree. more and more, this place feels like it has devolved into the political commentary mindset - people arguing for their biases/theories regardless of fact, history or reason.

of course, not everyone is to blame. but there are some trolls firmly entrenched in these parts.

[underrated29]

This has turned into a Tim Tebow/Ron Paul sort of thing.



Hey, I've always backed knowshon and north is my buddy and he knows because I told him during the chargers game that I was going to run my mouth about knowshon this week because I knew he was going to start and play. He is a big boy, he can take it, plus it's all in good fun.

I highly suspect that next week he will be the one running his mouth about him. Really, I have yet to see anyhow claim knowshon is anything like the tebow boys did during their thing. And really it seems like myself, mo and a few others are really his only real supporters throughout this whole thing.

[Dzone]

Im pulling for Moreno to make a great Rocky Bleier type comeback.
Some rbs are late bloomers

[Simple Jaded]

What's even funnier is that Hillman has shown even less than Knowshon did at this point of his career but Hillman still gets a complete pass while Knowshon has been bashed since day 1.
I'm not aware of anyone that expects Hillman to be a starter, he wasn't even the 12th pick in the 3rd round.......

[Dzone]

Hillmans hamstrings are hamstrung

[Northman]

Hey, I've always backed knowshon and north is my buddy and he knows because I told him during the chargers game that I was going to run my mouth about knowshon this week because I knew he was going to start and play. He is a big boy, he can take it, plus it's all in good fun.

I highly suspect that next week he will be the one running his mouth about him. Really, I have yet to see anyhow claim knowshon is anything like the tebow boys did during their thing. And really it seems like myself, mo and a few others are really his only real supporters throughout this whole thing.

Nah. Knowmo will go for 200+.

But, when it comes to certain individuals on here they just cant deal with sarcasm so thus it becomes and endless line of whining. They tend to take it far too personal which is sad.

[BroncoNut]

Hillman can't block for shit

[Buff]

Hey, I've always backed knowshon and north is my buddy and he knows because I told him during the chargers game that I was going to run my mouth about knowshon this week because I knew he was going to start and play. He is a big boy, he can take it, plus it's all in good fun.

I highly suspect that next week he will be the one running his mouth about him. Really, I have yet to see anyhow claim knowshon is anything like the tebow boys did during their thing. And really it seems like myself, mo and a few others are really his only real supporters throughout this whole thing.

You guys are real martyrs.

[CoachChaz]

So your going to flip your lid because we simply pointed out he still had issues with some of his flaws? This is what has gotten you guys all worked up today? Really? Jesus christ man, come on.

Who flipped their lid? Again...all I said was the kid had a decent game and how it was interesting that people would still insist on looking for minor flaws in it. No one got pissy or angry. It was merely an observation

[underrated29]

You guys are real martyrs.



We were both shaelyn monks in another life. Mo used to be taller.

[MOtorboat]

We were both shaelyn monks in another life. Mo used to be taller.

6-2.

Temple one on one basketball champion 10 years running.

[johnb]

How great would it be if Knowshon can "get 'er done" and becomes the back we thought we were drafting. I think it takes some guys longer than others to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Maybe hes a late bloomer? At the very least he looked very fresh out there. I hope he is the answer.

[Northman]

We were both shaelyn monks in another life. Mo used to be taller.

We are from Pandaria. We chew on leaves.

[Northman]

Who flipped their lid? Again...all I said was the kid had a decent game and how it was interesting that people would still insist on looking for minor flaws in it. No one got pissy or angry. It was merely an observation

That wasnt quite how you worded it initially but its cool. I just find it interesting that people still get worked up about criticism no matter how small it might be.

[Thnikkaman]

We are from Pandaria. We chew on leaves.

Are you seriously still playing WoW?

[capt. Jack]

I always liked this guy, I hope he can stay healthy!

[CoachChaz]

I guess I dont see where I was pissy or angry in any of this. Sounds more like curiosity.

"I wonder what we would find if we put every running back in the league under the same microscope that we like to put Moreno under. When you guys find a back that hits every hole, finds every cutback lane, catches every pass and doesnt fumble...let me know."

Oh well...I've been accused of more when saying less.

[Timmy!]

Are you seriously still playing WoW?

:lol: I find it hilarious that while reading this page there is a WoW mists of Pandaria ad at the bottom of the page. Irony +1

[Northman]

Are you seriously still playing WoW?

.....yes........ lol

[Northman]

I guess I dont see where I was pissy or angry in any of this. Sounds more like curiosity.

"I wonder what we would find if we put every running back in the league under the same microscope that we like to put Moreno under. When you guys find a back that hits every hole, finds every cutback lane, catches every pass and doesnt fumble...let me know."

Oh well...I've been accused of more when saying less.

Good enough for me. Im not sweating it.

[underrated29]

How great would it be if Knowshon can "get 'er done" and becomes the back we thought we were drafting. I think it takes some guys longer than others to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Maybe hes a late bloomer? At the very least he looked very fresh out there. I hope he is the answer.


As we know i am one of his biggest fans but even i dont think that will happen. I think he stays amd play out his contract and signs somewhere else for more money than the low ball offer we give him. Sadly, knowshon is done in denver.

[CoachChaz]

I've always rooted for his success. If for no other reason, because so many people seemed to want him and Ayers, etc. to fail because of who they were drafted by. But sadly, I think the kid could run for 600 yards to close out the season and his walking papers would still be signed.

[Northman]

As we know i am one of his biggest fans but even i dont think that will happen. I think he stays amd play out his contract and signs somewhere else for more money than the low ball offer we give him. Sadly, knowshon is done in denver.

Is his contract up this year?

[underrated29]

[QUOTE=Northman;1779093]Is his contract up this year?[/QUOTE
Technically next year.

Next year he has a 3m salary...and then ufa. I do not see him making it with us past that point.

[CoachChaz]

I'm sure Elway and Fox will find the heir apparent to McGahee elsewhere. Whether it be FA or draft. I'd love to see Moreno step up and earn the spot and spend the money/picks elsewhere...but I doubt it

[Buff]

As we know i am one of his biggest fans but even i dont think that will happen. I think he stays amd play out his contract and signs somewhere else for more money than the low ball offer we give him. Sadly, knowshon is done in denver.

God willing.

[Ravage!!!]

I just don't see anything about Moreno's game that makes me think he can be a #1 RB. I SOOOOo wish that he is as good as advertised when coming out of college, but haven't seen any of that yet. Even this game against KC was ok, but didn't see a guy that said to me "yeah, he's got it." I liked how he fought during the game though, and showed he was making a HUGE effort not to fumble. I liked that a lot.

[Northman]

I'm sure Elway and Fox will find the heir apparent to McGahee elsewhere. Whether it be FA or draft. I'd love to see Moreno step up and earn the spot and spend the money/picks elsewhere...but I doubt it

Well, im sure Knowmo will have the next 5 weeks to show his worth to them.

[CoachChaz]

Well, im sure Knowmo will have the next 5 weeks to show his worth to them.

I dont think it will matter

[Northman]

I dont think it will matter

Maybe. I would probably agree with you and UR that he is done but you never know.

[BroncoNut]

I always liked this guy, I hope he can stay healthy!

particularly amidst the cold and flu season which is basically already here.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If Moreno can spank a few teams and gain decent yards the rest of the season maybe he'll be asked to stay. I would love to see him excel the remainder of the season.

[Simple Jaded]

I have yet to see anyone say "I hate Knowshon and want him to fail because Josh McDaniels drafted him". Ditto for Ayers.

I'm not a fan of Slowshon because he's just not that good, he was a massive, MASSIVE waste of a premium draft pick and I also hated the **** outta Josh McDaniels, but none of that means I root against him when he was on the field. Long before McGahee went down and Denver was left with a rookie and a scrub I was looking forward to watching Moreno in this offense, and should he get anywhere near 600 yards through the remainder of the season I am quite positive the Broncos would welcome him back next season, regardless of his contract.......

[TXBRONC]

I'm sure Elway and Fox will find the heir apparent to McGahee elsewhere. Whether it be FA or draft. I'd love to see Moreno step up and earn the spot and spend the money/picks elsewhere...but I doubt it

Isn't this the last year of Moreno's contract?

[BroncoNut]

God willing.

wow buff. I think you have had a spirtutal awakening jsut now. I'd like to think I had alot to do with that and I am sure that is the case. The prayers have worked. Welcome back to the fold my lost brohter

[atwater27]

I still can't believe anyone would name their kid Knowshawn. Boggles the mind.

[GEM]

Good outing for Moreno. Hopefully for the offenses sake he can continue. Not my favorite player in the world, but he surprised me this week.

[Az Snake]

I still can't believe anyone would name their kid Knowshawn. Boggles the mind.

.

Actually, they named him Shawn.
Then they had to say "no Shawn, no Shawn, NO Shawn, NO SHAWN !!!
They had to yell "NO SHAWN !" so many times that it stuck with him.
Then it was his teachers and coaches and friends. "NO SHAWN !!!"


Just kidding of course, his name is KnowshOn.

Still, we all have been yelling "KNOWSHON, NO, OH NO... !!!" :lol:


One thing that I noticed at KC, Knowshon was hanging on to the ball for dear life.
Think he might have been going through fumble drills at practice all this time ?

Moreno was showing signs of swagger toward the end of the KC game.
To me it showed signs that KM was getting his confidence back.
That's huge if he hopes to continue to be successful !

Good luck Knowshon Moreno !!!
GO BRONCOS !!!


.

[BroncoNut]

thanks snake :hi:

[weazel]

I want Knowshon to run for 250 yards and 4 touchdowns this weekend. Go Moreno!

I wouldnt mind seeing Hillman and Hester get a couple each too!

[TXBRONC]

Good outing for Moreno. Hopefully for the offenses sake he can continue. Not my favorite player in the world, but he surprised me this week.

I wasn't to surprised because Moreno's best games have come against the Chiefs.

[Papa-pwn]

Is his contract up this year?
Technically next year.

Next year he has a 3m salary...and then ufa. I do not see him making it with us past that point.

Actually he is due 1.7 million next year(2013), and then the team has the option to release him free of cost the following year(2014) or pay him 5 million. The cap numbers are different, but that is the money he will be receiving.

Needless to say, he will definitely be back next year as he is cheap and useful. Whether or not he returns in 2014 depends on him breaking out into an above average starter or taking a pay cut.

I believe in him, and as fans we should all be hoping he dominates the rest of the year and beyond.

[Papa-pwn]

I wasn't to surprised because Moreno's best games have come against the Chiefs.

And redskins, and giants, and raiders, and several others

[Simple Jaded]

Papa-Overstatement.......

[Chef Zambini]

in 4 seasons, KM has been paid tens of MILLIONS of dollars! and he has had a handful of decent games, and maybe ONE exceptional games.
to say he has been a poor value would be an understatement.
he had one good game. lets hold off scheduling the parade in his honor,

M 'kah ?

[MOtorboat]

in 4 seasons, KM has been paid tens of MILLIONS of dollars! and he has had a handful of decent games, and maybe ONE exceptional games.
to say he has been a poor value would be an understatement.
he had one good game. lets hold off scheduling the parade in his honor,

M 'kah ?

"Tens of millions" eh?

Lol.

[BroncoWave]

in 4 seasons, KM has been paid tens of MILLIONS of dollars! and he has had a handful of decent games, and maybe ONE exceptional games.
to say he has been a poor value would be an understatement.
he had one good game. lets hold off scheduling the parade in his honor,

M 'kah ?

LOL, here is his year by year earnings so far in his career (counting salary and signing bonus)

2009: 1,752,000
2010: 6,440,750
2011: 2,775,750
2012: 2,630,750

That's a total of $13,599,250.

Yes, a lot of money, but not quite tens of millions. Averaged over his 4 years in the NFL, he makes about 3.39 million a year. If you use the list I linked to as a measuring stick (most recent data I could find) that would rank him 23rd in the NFL in RB salary. Given the inflation of salaries since then it's likely lower than that. So it's not like he's destroying our salary cap.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/position/RB/2009-10

[Ravage!!!]

23rd is still being paid as a starting RB, however. Not like a "stored away" RB that is too good to be amongst the active.

[BroncoWave]

23rd is still being paid as a starting RB, however. Not like a "stored away" RB that is too good to be amongst the active.

You should really stop with this Rav. The fact that you got that out of what I said last week is really making you look bad.

[Ravage!!!]

You should really stop with this Rav. The fact that you got that out of what I said last week is really making you look bad.

Nah, I got exactly what you said.. which I'm sure is why you don't want me to keep mentioning it. It really was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen you ever post, and that says a lot. To think they were keeping our "2nd best RB on the roster stored away because he was "another #1 back and thus not needed"..... I mean, wow.

However, moving forward. Moreno's salary isn't killing us...but I wouldn't be shocked to see him let go after this offseason either way. If you are placed on the inactive list, then its not like you are a priority to keep around.

All that being said, lets hope he kicks ass the rest of the season.

[BroncoWave]

Nah, I got exactly what you said.. which I'm sure is why you don't want me to keep mentioning it. It really was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen you ever post, and that says a lot. To think they were keeping our "2nd best RB on the roster stored away because he was "another #1 back and thus not needed"..... I mean, wow.

However, moving forward. Moreno's salary isn't killing us...but I wouldn't be shocked to see him let go after this offseason either way. If you are placed on the inactive list, then its not like you are a priority to keep around.

All that being said, lets hope he kicks ass the rest of the season.

And you never said who our second best RB is. You can't say my post is stupid if you have nothing to refute it.

[Ravage!!!]

And you never said who our second best RB is. You can't say my post is stupid if you have nothing to refute it.

Yes I can, and will again. I've asked you to show me ONE other team that puts their second best RB on the "inactive" list, because they are "too similar" to the starter. Just one. Give me ONE other team that thinks that having their 2nd best RB sitting and not being able to help, at all, makes sense. You can't even show me that this is a philosophy that Fox follows considering his RB's in Carolina were all similar.

You looked at what was on the field, made up a scenario that fit what you saw, and then believe that what you saw proves what you said. Its completely backwards thinking and has ZERO... logic to it. None, zilch, nada.

You know its true, and you can't admit it because you've backed yourself into a corner, and don't know how to scratch your way out.

[BroncoWave]

Do you even watch the NFL Rav? Stuff like this happens all the time. Every year after the preseason you hear of guys getting cut who are probably better at their position than guys who made the team, but they aren't good on special teams or can't fill a role behind the starter. After your starter at RB, it's nice to have a change of pace guy with some speed, or a guy who can get a tough 1 yard or block in passing situations. Moreno doesn't excel at any of those things, which is likely a big reason he fell out of favor. But when McGahee went out and we needed a guy to carry the rock 20 times, Moreno obviously was best for the job. Hillman isn't big enough to take that workload and Ball is way too one-dimensional. It's a pretty easy thing to comprehend if you actually understand football.

[BroncoWave]

QB is another example you see this in. Some teams have a backup QB who is a dual threat and will come in on trick plays, and a traditional QB as 3rd string. But when the starter goes down, you will see the traditional QB come in to play with the gadget QB staying in his role.

This likely would have been Denver's situation last season if not for the insane pressure to play Tebow.

[Ravage!!!]

yeah.. you obviously know what you are talking about here. I never watch the NFL and you are WAY up on me on this one.

The Panthers don't have their second best RB on the active roster... I mean, they aren't anything alike. THe Pittsburgh Steelers RBs... aren't anything alike. The 49ers, the Falcons, the Saints... none of these teame have RBs that are "similar" to their starter on the ACTIVE roster. no no. Makes MUCH more sense to believe, as you said before, that he was too much of a #1 to be active.

I'm sure that the coaches just figured that if, during a game, McGahee went down or needed a rest, or couldn't finish a half with a twisted ankle... that we would just "wait" for the next game to bring in Moreno. I mean, Moreno has obviously shown that he's soo much better than everyone else over his career, that it was too much of a risk to keep him around.

No no. I'm sure that its not possible that during the week of practice saw an opportunity and busted his ass to win the starting spot this week. No no.. after all.. what you SAW on the field "proves" your theory correct.. ... which is just absolutely funny to read E V E R Y time I see it typed out.

[BroncoWave]

yeah.. you obviously know what you are talking about here. I never watch the NFL and you are WAY up on me on this one.

The Panthers don't have their second best RB on the active roster... I mean, they aren't anything alike. THe Pittsburgh Steelers RBs... aren't anything alike. The 49ers, the Falcons, the Saints... none of these teame have RBs that are "similar" to their starter on the ACTIVE roster. no no. Makes MUCH more sense to believe, as you said before, that he was too much of a #1 to be active.

I'm sure that the coaches just figured that if, during a game, McGahee went down or needed a rest, or couldn't finish a half with a twisted ankle... that we would just "wait" for the next game to bring in Moreno. I mean, Moreno has obviously shown that he's soo much better than everyone else over his career, that it was too much of a risk to keep him around.

No no. I'm sure that its not possible that during the week of practice saw an opportunity and busted his ass to win the starting spot this week. No no.. after all.. what you SAW on the field "proves" your theory correct.. ... which is just absolutely funny to read E V E R Y time I see it typed out.

You don't have enough roster space to make every guy active. Sometimes you have to roll the dice on calls like that.

[bcbronc]

So Rav uve been going around in circles on this for a couple of days now and I'd like to hear your explanation of why, despite being inactive for weeks, Moreno was basically the only running back to get significant touches.

I'm not saying he was "stashed" but I'd like to hear your reasoning on the way things shook out last weekend.

[Simple Jaded]

12th overall picks do not get put on Inactive List, especially if the team considers that player to be the 2nd best at his position. Slowshon is getting yet another chance to prove he can be better than the player the Broncos made a weekly (and healthy) scratch.......

[Chef Zambini]

LOL, here is his year by year earnings so far in his career (counting salary and signing bonus)

2009: 1,752,000
2010: 6,440,750
2011: 2,775,750
2012: 2,630,750

That's a total of $13,599,250.

Yes, a lot of money, but not quite tens of millions. Averaged over his 4 years in the NFL, he makes about 3.39 million a year. If you use the list I linked to as a measuring stick (most recent data I could find) that would rank him 23rd in the NFL in RB salary. Given the inflation of salaries since then it's likely lower than that. So it's not like he's destroying our salary cap.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/position/RB/2009-10so 13 million is not tens of millions?
it aint single digit millions.
it aint hundreds or thousands of millions.
if 13 mill aint tens of millions WTF is it then genii ?
you BOR, CCO zam haters crack me up !

[Chef Zambini]

rav can call anyone he wants stupid or idiot.
to qualify you need only disagree with him.
if you dare to tender an opinion before consulting with him, then you are most definatly an idiot oblivious to even the most obvious elements of rudimentary football.

[MOtorboat]

so 13 million is not tens of millions?
it aint single digit millions.
it aint hundreds or thousands of millions.
if 13 mill aint tens of millions WTF is it then genii ?
you BOR, CCO zam haters crack me up !

13 million is not tens of millions, no. To have "tens" you at least have to have more than 20. It's not about you and your ego, though.

He's being paid less than league average this year, anyway.

[Ravage!!!]

You don't have enough roster space to make every guy active. Sometimes you have to roll the dice on calls like that.
Roll the dice on stashing your 2nd best RB on the inactive roster for WEEKS. I can see you having an argument ofr ONE week.

Give me ONE example.. in the ENTIRE NFL.. that does this. Just one. Hell, I'll make it open to you for more than one position (other than kicker or FB)... give me a team that "stashes" their second best player at ANY position on the "inactive list" for weeks just to "stash" them away. Just one, give me ONE example of any team doing this to back this up.

Don't give me this crap of teams "releasing" a player because he's not needed. That means the player wasn't good enough to make the cut, and would have been inactive..thus cut. Dn't try to make OTHER situations "fit" your terrible theory because you want to have it fit. GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE of this happening. Hell, why didn't Fox do this before when he was using two back of "similar" skill sets when in Carolina?

Take your time on this, I'm just looking for one.


So Rav uve been going around in circles on this for a couple of days now and I'd like to hear your explanation of why, despite being inactive for weeks, Moreno was basically the only running back to get significant touches.

I'm not saying he was "stashed" but I'd like to hear your reasoning on the way things shook out last weekend.

I haven't gone in circles and gave a reasonable explanation in my last post to Bailey. Could have simply been a situation that Moreno came out and showed he was the best man for the job, WINNING it during the week of practice. Could have been something as simple as Moreno having the experience and showing he had a better understanding as to where to block and when. There could be several things that made Moreno the guy to go with this week, or there could have been just ONE thing that made Moreno stand out during the week of practice. There are a LOT of things that could have happened that changed the coaches mind.

But I GUARANTEE YOU.. that he hasn't been put on the "inactive list" for WEEKS..because the coaches thought he was too similar to McGahee, or that he was "too much of a #1" to be on the roster. Thats just simply making up a stupid story, and is just absurd.

[Ravage!!!]

rav can call anyone he wants stupid or idiot.
to qualify you need only disagree with him.
if you dare to tender an opinion before consulting with him, then you are most definatly an idiot oblivious to even the most obvious elements of rudimentary football.

No no.. I pretty much keep just calling YOU an idiot. Bailey may have a ridiculously stupid "idea" or come up with a retarded theory as to the story behind why someone was on the inactive list for weeks, but I'm not calling HIM stupid at all because he's not stupid. That sentiment is just reserved for you.

[SR]

No no.. I pretty much keep just calling YOU an idiot. Bailey may have a ridiculously stupid "idea" or come up with a retarded theory as to the story behind why someone was on the inactive list for weeks, but I'm not calling HIM stupid at all. That is just reserved for you.

Yeah. I was gonna say I can't recall you ever calling me an idiot and we've disagreed plenty.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah. I was gonna say I can't recall you ever calling me an idiot and we've disagreed plenty.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Thats because you are not an idiot. Come to think of it, have we ever agreed?? :lol:

[BroncoJoe]

I think we can all pretty much agree Zam is the only idiot here.

[SR]

Thats because you are not an idiot. Come to think of it, have we ever agreed?? :lol:

I think maybe once. ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Nomad]

What's going in here:lol:

[Northman]

I forgot

[Chef Zambini]

I think we can all pretty much agree Zam is the only idiot here.thanks joe, love you too.

[Chef Zambini]

whats going on?
well after 4 seasons and millions of dollars (more than 9 and less than 20) moreno has earned himself a gameball. maybe his first and only as a bronco.
thats how this thrread started. but like most threads it soon decomposed into the I hate zam how about you thread.
so whaTS GOING ON IS THE SAME OL SAME OL.

[underrated29]

12th overall picks do not get put on Inactive List, especially if the team considers that player to be the 2nd best at his position. Slowshon is getting yet another chance to prove he can be better than the player the Broncos made a weekly (and healthy) scratch.......


Playing devils advocate here......Aaron Rodgers fits the bill to a T. First rd pick, was considered either first or second best at his position (Alex smith) and was the second best player on the roster at his position, but was benched all year long for Favre. Now qb is different than rb, but playing devils advocate with what was posted, this fits the bill.

[Chef Zambini]

sorry, Benched, is a whole lot different than inactive.
not a good example at all, sorry.

[MOtorboat]

So is the fact that he went from inactive to starter a condemnation of Lance Ball and Ronnie Hillman?

Because this actually happened. Moreno went from inactive to starter. How did that happen?

[dogfish]

So is the fact that he went from inactive to starter a condemnation of Lance Ball and Ronnie Hillman?

Because this actually happened. Moreno went from inactive to starter. How did that happen?

he got healthy at the right time, and decided to work hard in practice-- this shit ain't complicated. . .

and he's still not likely to be here next year-- let's hope we can continue to get something out of him for the rest of the season. . .

[Northman]

So is the fact that he went from inactive to starter a condemnation of Lance Ball and Ronnie Hillman?

Because this actually happened. Moreno went from inactive to starter. How did that happen?

First round draft choice. Again, expectations are greater for him than Ball or Hillman. They are still trying to see if he can turn it around.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I love this thread!

[Northman]

he got healthy at the right time, and decided to work hard in practice-- this shit ain't complicated. . .



:lol:
qft

[Chef Zambini]

So is the fact that he went from inactive to starter a condemnation of Lance Ball and Ronnie Hillman?

Because this actually happened. Moreno went from inactive to starter. How did that happen?thats the ten million dollar question isnt it!
reward for effort?
or is it some kind of exit interview?
it is weird.
I am more than curious to see how the RB rotation works out this week !
I am hoping hillman can earn himself more PT because he represents the future.
BALLS time in the game just tells me they dont trust hillman as a blocker.
when the defense sees BALL in the backfield they KNOW it is going to be a passing play !

[Ravage!!!]

Playing devils advocate here......Aaron Rodgers fits the bill to a T. First rd pick, was considered either first or second best at his position (Alex smith) and was the second best player on the roster at his position, but was benched all year long for Favre. Now qb is different than rb, but playing devils advocate with what was posted, this fits the bill.

He wasn't on the "inactive" list. He was at least on the bench, ready to go in, if the need arised. Thats different from what BtB is saying.

[SR]

He wasn't on the "inactive" list. He was at least on the bench, ready to go in, if the need arised. Thats different from what BtB is saying.

Fact

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Ravage!!!]

Fact

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

You better stop agreeing with me, or you are going to freak me out man!!! :lol:

[SR]

You better stop agreeing with me, or you are going to freak me out man!!! :lol:

I'm not ******* agreeing with you! Got it?! ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Simple Jaded]

Playing devils advocate here......Aaron Rodgers fits the bill to a T. First rd pick, was considered either first or second best at his position (Alex smith) and was the second best player on the roster at his position, but was benched all year long for Favre. Now qb is different than rb, but playing devils advocate with what was posted, this fits the bill.

This would fit better if the Broncos had some HoF talent in front of Moreno, too, instead of the 30-year-old the team signed to be his backup.......

[dogfish]

This would fit better if the Broncos had some HoF talent in front of Moreno, too, instead of the 30-year-old the team signed to be his backup.......

nah. . . they knew what they were getting mcgahee for. . . he wasn't their top priority in free agency by accident. . .

[Simple Jaded]

nah. . . they knew what they were getting mcgahee for. . . he wasn't their top priority in free agency by accident. . .

I wouldn't doubt it, but they did give Slowshon the starting job to start that season.......

[TXBRONC]

And redskins, and giants, and raiders, and several others

Ah no.

[dogfish]

I wouldn't doubt it, but they did give Slowshon the starting job to start that season.......

well, yea, for about a minute-and-a-half. . . :laugh:

[Simple Jaded]

well, yea, for about a minute-and-a-half. . . :laugh:

Hey, he earned that minute-and-a-half!.......

[I Eat Staples]

Zam is just misunderstood.

The real idiot is that Papa-pwn guy who came over here from Broncos Country just to tell us how good Moreno is.

[Simple Jaded]

Don't look now but Slowshon doesn't look half bad.......

[BroncoWave]

Don't look now but Slowshon doesn't look half bad.......

He's never been as bad as many of our fans have made him out to be. They are just mad that he's a McDaniels guy and didn't live up to being a first rounder, so he becomes a whipping boy. I still maintain if he were picked in the 3rd round and had the production he's had no one would have a problem with him. But it's somehow his fault that he was picked in the first round.

[Papa-pwn]

Zam is just misunderstood.

The real idiot is that Papa-pwn guy who came over here from Broncos Country just to tell us how good Moreno is.

I'm sorry you think that.

[Simple Jaded]

He's never been as bad as many of our fans have made him out to be. They are just mad that he's a McDaniels guy and didn't live up to being a first rounder, so he becomes a whipping boy. I still maintain if he were picked in the 3rd round and had the production he's had no one would have a problem with him. But it's somehow his fault that he was picked in the first round.

More than anything he was my whipping boy because he is so frustrating to watch, a total spaz with scrub RB skillset. I'd be lying if I said his draft position had nothing to do with it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, sure wouldn't be a first time that's happened.......

[Simple Jaded]

Dude needs to tape his gawd damn shoes on tho.......

[tomjonesrocks]

Don't look now but Slowshon doesn't look half bad.......

He's never been as bad as many of our fans have made him out to be. They are just mad that he's a McDaniels guy and didn't live up to being a first rounder, so he becomes a whipping boy. I still maintain if he were picked in the 3rd round and had the production he's had no one would have a problem with him. But it's somehow his fault that he was picked in the first round.

Make it a 5th rounder and I'm in agreement.

[silkamilkamonico]

Moreno did alright, and he is really good in the passing game and is quite a compliment for Manning out of the backfield. I wish they would work him in more with that.

This team desperatey needs an in between the tackles runner though. He can cleary see without McGahee there's no established run, and Denver had a hard time running the game out yesterday. TB had 2 extra possessions because we couldn't get a first down.

I really hope denver addresses this in the offseason, and I hope they can find a way to keep Moreno involved in the passing game a little more.

[bcbronc]

Moreno did alright, and he is really good in the passing game and is quite a compliment for Manning out of the backfield. I wish they would work him in more with that.

This team desperatey needs an in between the tackles runner though. He can cleary see without McGahee there's no established run, and Denver had a hard time running the game out yesterday. TB had 2 extra possessions because we couldn't get a first down.

I really hope denver addresses this in the offseason, and I hope they can find a way to keep Moreno involved in the passing game a little more.

Not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, but TB is the top rush defense in the league. And it's not just because everyone throws on them, their 3.4 ypc is also #1, so it's not just total yards against. I'm not sure McGahee would have made a difference when it comes to running out the clock yesterday.

Moreno had an okay game. Probably left some yards on the field on a couple of carries when he stumbled or got knocked down to easily. But also had some nice runs and showed some good leg drive on a couple. And that catch when on his backside was a sweet play!!

[NightTerror218]

I am not willing to wait 2 years for Lacy from Bama to ever the draft. Dude is solid and good. Damn good frosh in college :tsk:

I am confident in Mcgahee if he is healthy. If not I would like to look at a Standford RB. Or hillman to gain 10 lbs and go between tackles.

[silkamilkamonico]

I am not willing to wait 2 years for Lacy from Bama to ever the draft. Dude is solid and good. Damn good frosh in college :tsk:

I am confident in Mcgahee if he is healthy. If not I would like to look at a Standford RB. Or hillman to gain 10 lbs and go between tackles.

Yeldon is the stud freshman at Alabama. Lacy is a JR and eligible for the draft this year.

[silkamilkamonico]

Not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, but TB is the top rush defense in the league. And it's not just because everyone throws on them, their 3.4 ypc is also #1, so it's not just total yards against. I'm not sure McGahee would have made a difference when it comes to running out the clock yesterday.

Moreno had an okay game. Probably left some yards on the field on a couple of carries when he stumbled or got knocked down to easily. But also had some nice runs and showed some good leg drive on a couple. And that catch when on his backside was a sweet play!!


I think the issue with both Moreno and even Hillman, is their yards after contact are almost nonexistant. Moreno has been better at creating angles to run through, and Hillman is actually pretty good at it, but the minute they hit a defender that's it they are down. It's a little frustrating to watch. It almost look like they are running into brick walls out there, and I'm speaking on behalf of every week.

[Northman]

Raiders have the 28th ranked defense, if Knowmo cant have success (like a 100 yd game) against them than i think the writing is on the wall. This week i didnt expect him to do much against the #1 ranked defense. Thursday will be a better measurement of his progress.

[NightTerror218]

Yeldon is the stud freshman at Alabama. Lacy is a JR and eligible for the draft this year.

Oh nice, well I would draft him then. He powered through Georgia. I thought they said he was a frosh during the SEC game.

[underrated29]

Raiders have the 28th ranked defense, if Knowmo cant have success (like a 100 yd game) against them than i think the writing is on the wall. This week i didnt expect him to do much against the #1 ranked defense. Thursday will be a better measurement of his progress.


I actually dont think he will. They always seem to shut us down in the run pretty well and i think i heard that the raiders had 2 or 3 of their dbs go out with concussions. If thats legit we will likey just pass and take a quick 28-0 lead on them and bring in some backups

[tomjonesrocks]

Raiders have the 28th ranked defense, if Knowmo cant have success (like a 100 yd game) against them than i think the writing is on the wall.

Ha. He's done it twice in his whole career or something. I wouldn't put money on that. He has been decent so far but 100 yard games are for real RBs.

[G_Money]

Moreno is doing everything I could ever expect of him. He's catching (most) of the balls thrown his way, he's doing a better job of blitz pickup than he has in the past (almost got Osweiler killed in the pre-season, fer chrissake), and when the hole is there, he's making positive yards. Not a lot of dancing around and wasting the hole, which he was doing in the past.

He doesn't run for many yards after contact. He never will. When someone gets a hand on him, he'll go down. I think he had one run where he pushed through contact for extra yards, otherwise it was just, "oh, you touched me? Better fall down." He's a great flag-football player.

He doesn't have explosive speed, but his open-field moves are pretty good. I've been in favor of throwing him the ball in the flat since, well, forever, and now that we're using him in space he's making positive plays for us.

I like Hillman better for the same function (better speed), but Hillman's pass-protection must be lagging behind. Regardless, Moreno and Hillman are the same type of back: use them in space, don't pound them up the middle. If they find a gash in the line they should be able to get positive yards but no hole = no yards. BTW, that's one reason I didn't jump for joy when we traded up for Hillman.

I hope to get a back who can squeeze out a couple of yards on 3rd-and-1 when there's no hole and it's all on want-to, but until then, the Moreno-Hillman combo is serviceable. Because they're utilized the same way, the offense doesn't change much when one or the other is in. It's not like one is a pass-catcher and one is a grinder. Hopefully that helps Manning take full advantage of what they can do in space.

And hopefully we're not trying to convert too many 3rd-and-1s on inside gut runs.

~G

[GEM]

Just want to make sure I got the Moreno/McGahee argument correct...Is BTB saying that McGahee and Moreno are similar runners? :confused: That's what I am understanding from the conversation. Just wow....not even close.

[GEM]

rav can call anyone he wants stupid or idiot.
to qualify you need only disagree with him.
if you dare to tender an opinion before consulting with him, then you are most definatly an idiot oblivious to even the most obvious elements of rudimentary football.

:lol: Pot meet Mr. Kettle. I think you all shall be great friends.

[I Eat Staples]

He's never been as bad as many of our fans have made him out to be. They are just mad that he's a McDaniels guy and didn't live up to being a first rounder, so he becomes a whipping boy. I still maintain if he were picked in the 3rd round and had the production he's had no one would have a problem with him. But it's somehow his fault that he was picked in the first round.

I don't think anybody is saying it's his fault, but you want to get the value of what you payed for so to speak. If you buy a $50,000 car it should drive better than a $10,000 car. It's not the car's fault, but you want to get out what you put in.

[BroncoWave]

Just want to make sure I got the Moreno/McGahee argument correct...Is BTB saying that McGahee and Moreno are similar runners? :confused: That's what I am understanding from the conversation. Just wow....not even close.

No, that's not what I said at all. That's what you get for trusting Rav's interpretation of something. I said Moreno is more similar to McGahee than to Hillman or Ball in that Moreno is more of an every down back than a complementary back. That's why I feel he was inactive, because he's not good enough in any one area to be a change of pace guy like Hillman or Ball (hillman is faster, ball blocks better) but when someone is needed to carry it 20 times, he's the guy.

I never once said they are similar type players, just that they are similar in that they can both carry it 20 times a game, unlike Hillman or Ball.

[GEM]

He's never been as bad as many of our fans have made him out to be. They are just mad that he's a McDaniels guy and didn't live up to being a first rounder, so he becomes a whipping boy. I still maintain if he were picked in the 3rd round and had the production he's had no one would have a problem with him. But it's somehow his fault that he was picked in the first round.


I don't care that he is a McDaniel guy and yea if he was picked in the 3rd round I wouldn't have as much of an issue, but he was picked in the first and with that it carries higher expectations. When those expectations aren't met, prepare for bitching. :shrugs:

[GEM]

No, that's not what I said at all. That's what you get for trusting Rav's interpretation of something. I said Moreno is more similar to McGahee than to Hillman or Ball in that Moreno is more of an every down back than a complementary back. That's why I feel he was inactive, because he's not good enough in any one area to be a change of pace guy like Hillman or Ball (hillman is faster, ball blocks better) but when someone is needed to carry it 20 times, he's the guy.

I never once said they are similar type players, just that they are similar in that they can both carry it 20 times a game, unlike Hillman or Ball.


I didn't see where this conversation originated and just walked into the conversation here a couple pages ago. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Some like him, some don't. He is doing things now that he didn't before so perhaps his benching did some good. I don't think he'll ever be better than he is right now, but for now, he's getting the job done. I like him catching out of the backfield, he's has soft hands. He still can't get short yardage, but that's on the coaches and they should be putting Ball in for those plays. Just know your players. He'll never be my favorite player, I hated him previous to this stretch, but for now, he's helping the Broncos, not hurting them, so I'm ok with it.

[BroncoWave]

I don't care that he is a McDaniel guy and yea if he was picked in the 3rd round I wouldn't have as much of an issue, but he was picked in the first and with that it carries higher expectations. When those expectations aren't met, prepare for bitching. :shrugs:

I am more than prepared for childish, misplaced bitching on this forum. It's pretty much the norm, especially in regards to our former coach.

[GEM]

I am more than prepared for childish, misplaced bitching on this forum. It's pretty much the norm, especially in regards to our former coach.

That comment goes both ways and is childish within itself. :shrugs:

[BroncoWave]

Look, I understand that it's natural that when a first round pick underperforms, fans will be disappointed and critical. But what I don't understand is the absolute hatred and vitriol some of our fans throw his way. You would think he is a Ki-Jana Carter type bust the way he is talked about on here. Has he played like a first rounder? No. But has he played like a guy who belongs on an NFL roster? Absolutely. If you look at his numbers, he averages 4.0 ypc for his career and has 19 total TD in 40 games played. No those aren't great numbers, but 4 yards a pop and a TD every other game are completely respectable numbers. It's not like he's been absolutely horrible. The only way I can explain the outright hatred he has gotten is because he was drafted in the first round by McDaniels. It's very much the same reason I feel so many Broncos fans are so obsessed with Hillis (boy, I sure was right about him) because they feel he was wronged by McDaniels.

I would bet anything that had Moreno been a 3rd round pick by Shanny and had the production he has had in his career, he would not get 1/10 of the hate he has gotten as a Bronco.

[GEM]

Look, I understand that it's natural that when a first round pick underperforms, fans will be disappointed and critical. But what I don't understand is the absolute hatred and vitriol some of our fans throw his way. You would think he is a Ki-Jana Carter type bust the way he is talked about on here. Has he played like a first rounder? No. But has he played like a guy who belongs on an NFL roster? Absolutely. If you look at his numbers, he averages 4.0 ypc for his career and has 19 total TD in 40 games played. No those aren't great numbers, but 4 yards a pop and a TD every other game are completely respectable numbers. It's not like he's been absolutely horrible. The only way I can explain the outright hatred he has gotten is because he was drafted in the first round by McDaniels. It's very much the same reason I feel so many Broncos fans are so obsessed with Hillis (boy, I sure was right about him) because they feel he was wronged by McDaniels.

I would bet anything that had Moreno been a 3rd round pick by Shanny and had the production he has had in his career, he would not get 1/10 of the hate he has gotten as a Bronco.


For me personally, it's the first round distinction that bugs me. Has nothing to do with McDaniels....btw you bring that guy up more than anyone on this site has in the last year. I don't care who made the pick, I have a problem with the draft table that had him so high and he hasn't lived up to it. Wish we wouldn't have gotten him in the 4th cause that is about his talent level.

[BroncoWave]

For me personally, it's the first round distinction that bugs me. Has nothing to do with McDaniels....btw you bring that guy up more than anyone on this site has in the last year. I don't care who made the pick, I have a problem with the draft table that had him so high and he hasn't lived up to it. Wish we wouldn't have gotten him in the 4th cause that is about his talent level.

Sometimes the draft experts and teams just miss on players. That's not Moreno's fault. There are much worse first round picks every single season than Moreno. That's why the draft is a crapshoot. I'm not going to blame or be mad at a player for being drafted too high.

[I Eat Staples]

It doesn't have to do with McDaniels, just the fact he was picked in the 1st round. DT is a McDaniels guy and we're all fine with him because he's shown he's a good player that deserved to be picked in the 1st round.

I didn't like the pick at the time, but McDaniels got that one right. He didn't with Moreno.

[GEM]

True. I know for me a lot of it is having watched his college highlights, I just wonder what happened in his progression to the NFL. It's like night and day.

[Buff]

Look, I understand that it's natural that when a first round pick underperforms, fans will be disappointed and critical. But what I don't understand is the absolute hatred and vitriol some of our fans throw his way. You would think he is a Ki-Jana Carter type bust the way he is talked about on here. Has he played like a first rounder? No. But has he played like a guy who belongs on an NFL roster? Absolutely. If you look at his numbers, he averages 4.0 ypc for his career and has 19 total TD in 40 games played. No those aren't great numbers, but 4 yards a pop and a TD every other game are completely respectable numbers. It's not like he's been absolutely horrible. The only way I can explain the outright hatred he has gotten is because he was drafted in the first round by McDaniels. It's very much the same reason I feel so many Broncos fans are so obsessed with Hillis (boy, I sure was right about him) because they feel he was wronged by McDaniels.

I would bet anything that had Moreno been a 3rd round pick by Shanny and had the production he has had in his career, he would not get 1/10 of the hate he has gotten as a Bronco.

Along those same lines, I don't think he would have gotten had as many opportunities nor would he have had as many fans come to his defense if he were a 3rd rounder. I don't think he would be on the roster this year if we hadn't committed so much $$ to him early in his career.

[BroncoWave]

It doesn't have to do with McDaniels, just the fact he was picked in the 1st round. DT is a McDaniels guy and we're all fine with him because he's shown he's a good player that deserved to be picked in the 1st round.

I didn't like the pick at the time, but McDaniels got that one right. He didn't with Moreno.

DT got a LOT of vitriol as well before he started playing well last season. I just don't remember Shanny's first round failures getting this much heat. That is all.

[BroncoWave]

Along those same lines, I don't think he would have gotten had as many opportunities nor would he have had as many fans come to his defense if he were a 3rd rounder. I don't think he would be on the roster this year if we hadn't committed so much $$ to him early in his career.

Lance Ball somehow sticks on our roster and his numbers are worse than Moreno's.

[bcbronc]

Two quick comments on recent posts....

Re: 100 yard games, part of that is on the offense we ran under joshy boy, and the recent transition on our OL. Tough circumstances for a running back.

Re: Ball being used on 3rd and short, no. Ball has had chances to show he's that guy, but he's not. I'd guess his conversion rate on 3rd and short is less than 20%. I expect we will see Hester get a chance to grab that role, but if not him Moreno is way better option than Ball, and I agree its not Moreno's forte.

[GEM]

DT got a LOT of vitriol as well before he started playing well last season. I just don't remember Shanny's first round failures getting this much heat. That is all.

Now come on.....let's not forget the fans and how they hated Shanny's drafts....Jarvis Moss anyone?

[Day1BroncoFan]

Moreno seems to have a knack for doing the wrong thing at the worst time or, maybe it's my perception. I don't dislike him,
I just think we could use the roster spot for someone better and save money at the same time. He has done better theses last few games so who knows.

[bcbronc]

Along those same lines, I don't think he would have gotten had as many opportunities nor would he have had as many fans come to his defense if he were a 3rd rounder. I don't think he would be on the roster this year if we hadn't committed so much $$ to him early in his career.

He has averaged about 80 yards from scrummage and .5 tds per game. Why wouldn't he have gotten the same opportunities after that production? Its not world beating production, but its not scrap heap production either.

I've said it a few dozen times, the big problem with Moreno is he can't stay healthy. He's always nursing an injury or just coming back from one. I'd he could stay healthy he'd quiet most of the critics, just like DT has.

[BroncoWave]

Now come on.....let's not forget the fans and how they hated Shanny's drafts....Jarvis Moss anyone?

I just don't remember guys like Moss and Ashley Lelie getting the same level of hate of Moreno, or DT before he started playing well last season. Maybe it's just because they are fresher on my mind, but I feel like guys drafted by McD have been given a MUCH shorter leash by the fans. People were ready to get rid of DT after one season. That absolutely did not happen with Moss or Lelie.

[GEM]

Shanny's first rounders:
1995 — No pick — — [l]
1996 15 John Mobley Linebacker Kutztown
1997 28 Trevor Pryce Defensive tackle Clemson
1998 30 Marcus Nash Wide receiver Tennessee
1999 31 Al Wilson Linebacker Tennessee
2000 15 Deltha O'Neal Cornerback California [m]
2001 24 Willie Middlebrooks Cornerback Minnesota
2002 19 Ashley Lelie Wide receiver Hawaii
2003 20 George Foster Offensive tackle Georgia
2004 17 D. J. Williams Linebacker Miami (FL) [n]
2005 — No pick — — [o]
2006 11 Jay Cutler Quarterback Vanderbilt [p]
2007 17 Jarvis Moss Defensive end Florida [q]
2008 12 Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State

How many of those were heated discussions back in the day? A lot of them...guess you don't remember them, but good Lord the conversations we had about Nash, O'Neal and Middlebrooks.

[artie_dale]

I just don't remember guys like Moss and Ashley Lelie getting the same level of hate of Moreno, or DT before he started playing well last season. Maybe it's just because they are fresher on my mind, but I feel like guys drafted by McD have been given a MUCH shorter leash by the fans. People were ready to get rid of DT after one season. That absolutely did not happen with Moss or Lelie.

What? I remember Lelie getting all sorts of hell from us critics. I personally only bash McDaniels for not who he acquired, but for who he got rid of. Those decisions were much more negative than the people he acquired. But, if Knowshon is the topic of discussion, I agree that he is a lackluster player at best. I supported him all the way up to last season and this season, he hasn't given me any reason to expect anything more. Decent filler for now, but not the consistant hope I'd personally like in our backfield. I was really hoping to see what Hillman can do in the driver's seat but if he can't beat out Ball and Moreno.... well, what else should I/we expect?

[artie_dale]

Shanny's first rounders:
1995 — No pick — — [l]
1996 15 John Mobley Linebacker Kutztown
1997 28 Trevor Pryce Defensive tackle Clemson
1998 30 Marcus Nash Wide receiver Tennessee
1999 31 Al Wilson Linebacker Tennessee
2000 15 Deltha O'Neal Cornerback California [m]
2001 24 Willie Middlebrooks Cornerback Minnesota
2002 19 Ashley Lelie Wide receiver Hawaii
2003 20 George Foster Offensive tackle Georgia
2004 17 D. J. Williams Linebacker Miami (FL) [n]
2005 — No pick — — [o]
2006 11 Jay Cutler Quarterback Vanderbilt [p]
2007 17 Jarvis Moss Defensive end Florida [q]
2008 12 Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State

How many of those were heated discussions back in the day? A lot of them...guess you don't remember them, but good Lord the conversations we had about Nash, O'Neal and Middlebrooks.

Excellent points. Crappy players get drafted in the first round... A LOT! Even our beloved Denver Broncos have drafted more crap players in the last 2 decades than quality players. Knowshon doesn't deserve criticizm because McDaniels drafted him. He deserves criticizm for being mid 1st round draft pick and for not being the top RB a team needs a 1st rounder to be. You either live up to it or you don't. If you don't, this is what happens.

[BroncoWave]

Excellent points. Crappy players get drafted in the first round... A LOT! Even our beloved Denver Broncos have drafted more crap players in the last 2 decades than quality players. Knowshon doesn't deserve criticizm because McDaniels drafted him. He deserves criticizm for being mid 1st round draft pick and for not being the top RB a team needs a 1st rounder to be. You either live up to it or you don't. If you don't, this is what happens.

Why is it Moreno's fault he was a first round pick? It's not his fault teams misjudged his talent.

[Buff]

He has averaged about 80 yards from scrummage and .5 tds per game. Why wouldn't he have gotten the same opportunities after that production? Its not world beating production, but its not scrap heap production either.

I've said it a few dozen times, the big problem with Moreno is he can't stay healthy. He's always nursing an injury or just coming back from one. I'd he could stay healthy he'd quiet most of the critics, just like DT has.

The combination of mediocre production and injuries as a RB is normally a death sentence. RBs a dime a dozen - especially middle round backs. He got an extended, extended look based on his 1st round potential.

[turftoad]

Excellent points. Crappy players get drafted in the first round... A LOT! Even our beloved Denver Broncos have drafted more crap players in the last 2 decades than quality players. Knowshon doesn't deserve criticizm because McDaniels drafted him. He deserves criticizm for being mid 1st round draft pick and for not being the top RB a team needs a 1st rounder to be. You either live up to it or you don't. If you don't, this is what happens.
Good post. Crappy players get drafted in the first round by EVERY team. Not just us.

[bcbronc]

Good post. Crappy players get drafted in the first round by EVERY team. Not just us.

Yeah, just look at RBs in the AFC west. KC's the only one without a current bust/disappointment. The rest of us all made a big investment in a RB that hasn't been what our respective fan bases would hope for.

Moreno could be a lot worse. At least he contributes. It's great to hope for a homerun with every first rounder, but better a solid single than a foul ball pop out.