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View Full Version : Should Broncos opt out of Manning's contract after this year, or commit to $40 million more?



Tned
11-14-2012, 08:28 AM
Ok, seems like a dumb question, but....

There were a lot of people very angry at the Broncos committing $96 million to one player and were adamant it was the wrong move. That the money should be spent on four or five very good players instead of one formerly great player coming off of a major injury at 36 years old.

So, with this option:


Sure, he signed a five-year, $96 million contract. But the thing was written to give Denver an out after one year (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/26/peyton-realizes-hes-on-a-one-year-deal/). If the Broncos choose not to pull the plug, they’ll pay Peyton $20 million in 2013 and $20 million in 2014, unless during the 2013 season he suffers an injury to the exact area of his neck that required a quartet of surgeries.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/14/peyton-is-earning-his-next-40-million/

Should the Broncos extend Manning for two more years and $40 million more, or should they ride him for all he's worth this season, and then go with Brock or pickup someone like Quinn or Vick in the offseason?

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 08:39 AM
No.

SR
11-14-2012, 08:47 AM
Absolutely not. Pay the man.

Mike
11-14-2012, 09:03 AM
They should bring Tebow back.







trololololol

chazoe60
11-14-2012, 09:14 AM
Yes. This team is well on its way to being an elite team we don't need that over-paid schlub. Besides, I wanna see Chop and Chef's heads explode when Osweiler throws his first interception. :laugh:

Northman
11-14-2012, 09:19 AM
Keep him, no question.

Northman
11-14-2012, 09:22 AM
They should bring Tebow back.







trololololol


1778

Thnikkaman
11-14-2012, 10:04 AM
Keep him. Even if he's injured he is valuable as a mentor to whoever is next.

I want to see him be a Bronco coach when his playing days are done.

Buff
11-14-2012, 10:11 AM
You may as well ask if fans prefer to win or lose.

Of course you pay the guy - what more could you possibly hope for out of a QB? $20 million/year at the most important position in sports for a perennial MVP candidate is a bargain when you consider how much more relevant he makes the entire organization.

Chef Zambini
11-14-2012, 10:25 AM
You may as well ask if fans prefer to win or lose.

Of course you pay the guy - what more could you possibly hope for out of a QB? $20 million/year at the most important position in sports for a perennial MVP candidate is a bargain when you consider how much more relevant he makes the entire organization.
well said!

remember how 'relevant' tebow made us/
now we are just ho-hum winners.

osweiler,
I hope we get to see him in week 17 when out play-off birth is secure and we rest a healthy manning on the sidelines.
of course we pay manning, hell its not my money !

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 10:38 AM
You may as well ask if fans prefer to win or lose.

Of course you pay the guy - what more could you possibly hope for out of a QB? $20 million/year at the most important position in sports for a perennial MVP candidate is a bargain when you consider how much more relevant he makes the entire organization.

I've really only seen a couple posters legitimately argue that the contract hurts Denver's chances at winning, but Denver is paying the going rate for an elite quarterback and still has cap room to spare.

I don't think you risk allowing him back on to the free agent market, nor do you opt out and try to low ball him. That's bad business practice.

Chef Zambini
11-14-2012, 10:41 AM
hooked, right in the eye socket.

Softskull
11-14-2012, 11:16 AM
It was the best $19 Million the Broncos have ever spent. Did anyone do the cost benefit analysis on getting rid of Tebow in the deal? We keep Manning and ride that ******* for all he's worth.

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Yeah, when reading the title, I really did think it was a dumb question.

But I was surprised by the number of people that actually thought Manning wasn't worth the contract to begin with. Something about his head falling off. But 'm sure Vande doesn't feel that way anymore...just as I'm sure Joel will be the first to vote that we should opt out.

Tned
11-14-2012, 11:51 AM
Yeah, when reading the title, I really did think it was a dumb question.

But I was surprised by the number of people that actually thought Manning wasn't worth the contract to begin with. Something about his head falling off. But 'm sure Vande doesn't feel that way anymore...just as I'm sure Joel will be the first to vote that we should opt out.

Remember, there are no dumb questions, only dumb people that ask questions.... Wait, did I just slam myself... :confused:

Seriously, I posed it for two reasons, first the PFT piece on their opt out caught my attention and second, because there were quite a few people that were adamant that $96 million spent on Manning could put this franchise back years, if not a decade. Too much money spent on one position, that at best would be a short term gain and you would need a new QB in a few years.

slim
11-14-2012, 11:54 AM
The money was never an issue.

Dumb.

Hawgdriver
11-14-2012, 12:41 PM
Money well spent.

Superchop 7
11-14-2012, 12:50 PM
Yes. This team is well on its way to being an elite team we don't need that over-paid schlub. Besides, I wanna see Chop and Chef's heads explode when Osweiler throws his first interception. :laugh:

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________-

I have been Brocks biggest supporter on the boards, I have no idea where this is coming from......hell....we should have given up the whole draft to make him the first pick.

Poet
11-14-2012, 12:57 PM
Guys, just ask yourself, what would Oakland do?

Tned
11-14-2012, 12:58 PM
Guys, just ask yourself, what would Oakland do?

Say Manning's too slow and get a track start to be QB.

Poet
11-14-2012, 01:02 PM
Say Manning's too slow and get a track start to be QB.

Exactly.

camdisco24
11-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Based on how John Elway has treated most of our players thus far, I would bet money they pay Manning. Elway knows what it's like to be a player and I can't imagine Manning would be very happy if the Broncos opted out.

MileHighCrew
11-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Not only should they pay him, but they should take blood samples from Manning and Elway, clone them and make a warehouse of super QB babies so I never have to suffer with another Orton/Tebow QB situation in my life.

FanInAZ
11-14-2012, 01:47 PM
I miss read the choices, is there any way for me to officially change my vote?

FanInAZ
11-14-2012, 01:49 PM
Guys, just ask yourself, what would Oakland do?

Trade away 2 picks to get Palmer.

slim
11-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Not only should they pay him, but they should take blood samples from Manning and Elway, clone them and make a warehouse of super QB babies so I never have to suffer with another Orton/Tebow QB situation in my life.

Those babies would be all teeth and forehead!

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:02 PM
I would totally respond to this thread but my foot currently resides in my mouth.

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
While we are exorcising old demons let's just admit that McDaniels actually got a couple things right:

1. Passing on Dez Bryant for DT was actually a very good move
2. The value he got for Marshall was very good and the move actually worked.
3. The king's ransom for Tebow was terrible but if Fox and mccoy didn't find a way to revamp everything and eek into the PO's (as gimmicky as it was) manning might be a 49er right now. But now we can just pretend we traded all those picks to baltimore for manning :D

Davii
11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Those babies would be all teeth and forehead!

Artist rendering

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnK39HN_FYDhGsTBLZlL94etS1D-rwmqBwJjypXAG_cFNDhBx2Hg

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:11 PM
While we are exorcising old demons let's just admit that McDaniels actually got a couple things right:

1. Passing on Dez Bryant for DT was actually a very good move
2. The value he got for Marshall was very good and the move actually worked.
3. The king's ransom for Tebow was terrible but if Fox and mccoy didn't find a way to revamp everything and eek into the PO's (as gimmicky as it was) manning might be a 49er right now. But now we can just pretend we traded all those picks to baltimore for manning :D

1) Correct. Bryant is a mess.
2) DT is getting better but imagine Manning with a Seasoned Marshall? The sky would be the limit so im still siding with Marsh on that one.
3) Manning coming to Denver had nothing to do with Tebow, that was all John Elway there. If Manning wanted to be a Niner he would be there.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:14 PM
1) Correct. Bryant is a mess.
2) DT is getting better but imagine Manning with a Seasoned Marshall? The sky would be the limit so im still siding with Marsh on that one.
3) Manning coming to Denver had nothing to do with Tebow, that was all John Elway there. If Manning wanted to be a Niner he would be there.

If we had never played Tebow and had back to back 4-12 seasons with Orton (which is what would have happened) do you think this would have been as attractive a destination to Manning? I don't.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
Seriously? Are we really going to give McD credit for Manning being here?

Good Lord....

Fullback32
11-14-2012, 02:18 PM
2) DT is getting better but imagine Manning with a Seasoned Marshall? The sky would be the limit so im still siding with Marsh on that one.

While watching the Bears game the other night, I wondered if Marshall has ever asked himself if he should have been less of an asshat in Denver and stayed so that he would now have Peyton Manning throwing to him instead of Mr Sullen Whiney Boy. Oh yeah, that would now be Jason Campbell tossing him the ball. Good luck with that Brandon.

Davii
11-14-2012, 02:19 PM
Seriously? Are we really going to give McD credit for Manning being here?

Good Lord....

So long as we're handing out credit can we thank Shanahan as well? After all, we would've never had Orton/Tebow/McD without Plummer/Cutler/Shanny....

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:19 PM
Seriously? Are we really going to give McD credit for Manning being here?

Good Lord....

McDaniels is the gift that keeps on giving!

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 02:21 PM
While watching the Bears game the other night, I wondered if Marshall has ever asked himself if he should have been less of an asshat in Denver and stayed so that he would now have Peyton Manning throwing to him instead of Mr Sullen Whiney Boy. Oh yeah, that would now be Jason Campbell tossing him the ball. Good luck with that Brandon.

I think McD was the asshat.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Seriously? Are we really going to give McD credit for Manning being here?

Good Lord....

He absolutely gets some credit for putting some of the pieces on this team that made it an attractive one to Manning though. Obviously Elway gets the majority of the credit and deservedly so, but let's not act like McD left this roster completely devoid of any talent. I know that doesn't fit into this board's narrative of him but quite a few of our major contributors were brought on by him.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
So long as we're handing out credit can we thank Shanahan as well? After all, we would've never had Orton/Tebow/McD without Plummer/Cutler/Shanny....

Well, if Kaiser had not traded for Elway, none of the Super Bowl years would have been possible, which means Plummer/Cutler/Shanny never happens and it's the end of the world as we know it!

slim
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
He absolutely gets some credit for putting some of the pieces on this team that made it an attractive one to Manning though. Obviously Elway gets the majority of the credit and deservedly so, but let's not act like McD left this roster completely devoid of any talent. I know that doesn't fit into this board's narrative of him but quite a few of our major contributors were brought on by him.

Define "quite a few"

chazoe60
11-14-2012, 02:24 PM
Well, if Kaiser had not traded for Elway, none of the Super Bowl years would have been possible, which means Plummer/Cutler/Shanny never happens and it's the end of the world as we know it!

If Floyd Little decided to play elsewhere the Denver Broncos very well might not even exist today. It's all Floyd's fault and he deserves all the credit as well as the blame. Let's burn his house down and build him a bigger one in it's place.

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 02:24 PM
1) Correct. Bryant is a mess.
2) DT is getting better but imagine Manning with a Seasoned Marshall? The sky would be the limit so im still siding with Marsh on that one.
3) Manning coming to Denver had nothing to do with Tebow, that was all John Elway there. If Manning wanted to be a Niner he would be there.

Exactly. As much as DT is fun to watch, Marshall is still the better WR. What other position would we have gotten had we not had to spend on a WR? Don't know. I'll give credit in the sense that McD picked DT over Bryant, but that was a choice he had to make because he got rid of the prime WR we already had.

Davii
11-14-2012, 02:25 PM
He absolutely gets some credit for putting some of the pieces on this team that made it an attractive one to Manning though. Obviously Elway gets the majority of the credit and deservedly so, but let's not act like McD left this roster completely devoid of any talent. I know that doesn't fit into this board's narrative of him but quite a few of our major contributors were brought on by him.

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, but even when it is... it's still ******* broken.

Fullback32
11-14-2012, 02:25 PM
I think McD was the asshat.

I cannot refute that statement.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:26 PM
If Floyd Little decided to play elsewhere the Denver Broncos very well might not even exist today. It's all Floyd's fault and he deserves all the credit as well as the blame. Let's burn his house down and build him a bigger one in it's place.

If Lamar Hunt was a lesser man, the AFL would have flamed out and the NFL would not exist.

chazoe60
11-14-2012, 02:26 PM
I cannot refute that statement.

Of course you can't refute what Rav thinks.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:26 PM
Exactly. As much as DT is fun to watch, Marshall is still the better WR. What other position would we have gotten had we not had to spend on a WR? Don't know. I'll give credit in the sense that McD picked DT over Bryant, but that was a choice he had to make because he got rid of the prime WR we already had.

No way. When it's all said and done, DT will be twice the player that Marshall is.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:28 PM
All Hail Lamar Hunt!

We has brought us Peyton Manning and a chance at a trophy!

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:28 PM
If we had never played Tebow and had back to back 4-12 seasons with Orton (which is what would have happened) do you think this would have been as attractive a destination to Manning? I don't.

I was surprised that Manning even came here even with the year we had last year. For the most part it was done with smoke and mirrors which is why i think Elway had far more to do with getting Manning to sign on than what our record was. People forget we were an 8-8 team, thats a far cry from a true contender. Im sure John gave Peyton a lot of assurances when trying to woo him here.

Davii
11-14-2012, 02:28 PM
If Floyd Little decided to play elsewhere the Denver Broncos very well might not even exist today. It's all Floyd's fault and he deserves all the credit as well as the blame. Let's burn his house down and build him a bigger one in it's place.

Well none of this would've been possible without the original owner, Bob Howsam. Therefore, next SB should be, "this one's for Bob".

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:29 PM
While watching the Bears game the other night, I wondered if Marshall has ever asked himself if he should have been less of an asshat in Denver and stayed so that he would now have Peyton Manning throwing to him instead of Mr Sullen Whiney Boy. Oh yeah, that would now be Jason Campbell tossing him the ball. Good luck with that Brandon.

I suppose if he had a crystal ball he could of answered that. Did you know we would have Manning here? I know i didnt. :lol:

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 02:29 PM
No way. When it's all said and done, DT will be twice the player that Marshall is.

How so? But who's talking "said and done?" Marshall, right now, is beter than DT. He was second in the NFL with TD catches, and that was with Cutler throwing him the ball over Manning. Marshall is twice the guy to try and defend, and does it week in and week out with teams having to double team and bracket him due to the fact they don't have a decent on the other side of the field. Marshall is a Beast across the middle and in traffic. He doesn't have the flat out speed that DT has, but he has more than enough, and is MUCH tougher to bring down after the catch than DT is.

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:29 PM
I think Thomas, Beadles and Ayers are the only McDaniels acquisitions playing...

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:30 PM
Define "quite a few"

Quite a few might be an overstatement, but he is certainly responsible for DT and Decker being in the WR corps, probably something pretty high on Manning's concern list.

And obviously Tebow, who made our team attractive enough last season to woo a guy like Manning.

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:31 PM
No way. When it's all said and done, DT will be twice the player that Marshall is.

Lets hope so, he's got a lot of work to do yet.

Fullback32
11-14-2012, 02:31 PM
Of course you can't refute what Rav thinks.

Well, McDummy was an asshat.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
If God did not create the world, then none of this is possible.

Therefore, thank you God for bringing us Lamar Hunt who begot the AFL, which begot the NFL, which brought us John Elway, who brought us Mike Shannahan, who brought us Jake Plummer, who brought us Jay Cutler, who got Mike Shannahan fired, which begot Josh McDaniels, who brought us Tim Tebow, who sucked, but also gave us a playoff win, which help us to land Peyton Manning.

Amen!

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
I think Thomas, Beadles and Ayers are the only McDaniels acquisitions playing...

Decker, Bruton. Walton was a starter before injury.

Fullback32
11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
I suppose if he had a crystal ball he could of answered that. Did you know we would have Manning here? I know i didnt. :lol:

John Elway prophesized it.

weazel
11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
I think they should go to arbitration and ask for their money back! :elefant:

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
If God did not create the world, then none of this is possible.

Therefore, thank you God for bringing us Lamar Hunt who begot the AFL, which begot the NFL, which brought us John Elway, who brought us Mike Shannahan, who brought us, Jake Plummer, who brought us Jay Cutler, who got Mike Shannahan fired, which begot Josh McDaniels, who brought us Tim Tebow, who sucked, but also gave us a playoff win, which help us to land Peyton Manning.

Amen!

I digress, if the Big Bang never happened than none of this would of happened and Slim would of never came from apes.

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
John Elway prophesized it.

I must of missed that bus.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:34 PM
I was surprised that Manning even came here even with the year we had last year. For the most part it was done with smoke and mirrors which is why i think Elway had far more to do with getting Manning to sign on than what our record was. People forget we were an 8-8 team, thats a far cry from a true contender. Im sure John gave Peyton a lot of assurances when trying to woo him here.

Wouldn't you agree that a 3 or 4 win season last year would have made that a much harder sell for Elway. What Tebow did made it an easy sell. All Elway had to say was "If this crappy QB can lead our team to a division win an playoff win, imagine what you can do for us"

slim
11-14-2012, 02:34 PM
How so? But who's talking "said and done?" Marshall, right now, is beter than DT. He was second in the NFL with TD catches, and that was with Cutler throwing him the ball over Manning. Marshall is twice the guy to try and defend, and does it week in and week out with teams having to double team and bracket him due to the fact they don't have a decent on the other side of the field. Marshall is a Beast across the middle and in traffic. He doesn't have the flat out speed that DT has, but he has more than enough, and is MUCH tougher to bring down after the catch than DT is.

OK, we can agree to disagree. I would much rather have DT. It's really not even close, IMO.

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Decker, Bruton. Walton was a starter before injury.

He won't be when he comes back.

A coach fired less than two years ago only contributed three starters, a special teamer and a rotational player to a team of 53.

Wow, that's bad. Yeah, he gets no credit at all...

chazoe60
11-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Well none of this would've been possible without the original owner, Bob Howsam. Therefore, next SB should be, "this one's for Bob".

Without Walter Camp we're all Fascinists, which is a political ideology which mixes Communism and Fascism, and we'd speaking a mix of Chinese and German called Germese and watching a more boring version of soccer called tie-ball. Tie-ball is like soccer but played on a smaller field with a much bigger ball and smaller goal. Every game ends in a 0-0 tie so as not to upset anyone. Everyone in the league is awarded a championship ring and then sent to work the fields and all honor and glory go to the state.



Thank God for Walter Camp delivering us from the clutches of Communism/Fascism

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:36 PM
Elway definitely gets the lion's share of the credit. But Fox and McCoy deserve their's too. They bit the bullet in a league where they might not ever be hired again for switching to an offense they did and managing to eek out some wins. If anyone believes Manning would still be here without that PO appearance and win over Pittsburgh, they aren't being honest with themselves. This team was 1-4 and staring 3-13 4-12 in the face. At that point Elway has nothing to sell but $$$

slim
11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
He won't be when he comes back.

A coach fired less than two years ago only contributed three starters, a special teamer and a rotational player to a team of 53.

Wow, that's bad. Yeah, he gets no credit at all...

No credit.

Period.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:38 PM
I digress, if the Big Bang never happened than none of this would of happened and Slim would of never came from apes.

Who you calling an ape?

TXBRONC
11-14-2012, 02:38 PM
How can Elway do otherwise considering:

1.) Manning is playing at an elite level.

2.) If Denver makes the playoffs and then goes on and makes a deep run how could Elway justify not paying Manning the extra $40 million?

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:39 PM
Wouldn't you agree that a 3 or 4 win season last year would have made that a much harder sell for Elway. What Tebow did made it an easy sell. All Elway had to say was "If this crappy QB can lead our team to a division win an playoff win, imagine what you can do for us"

Hard to say. We dont know what the thought process of Manning was when he hit FA market. This was a young team and not really the "best" option for a guy like Manning if you look at it logically. The Niners are far more prepared for a Championship run than the Broncos so i really dont think record had much to do with it. Manning was looking for something and maybe it was a good relationship within the organization. Im sure he saw some talent on this team and probably felt we overachieved but i dont think what we did last year was a selling point. Could of been money, i dont know what the Niners or Titans were offering so maybe that was a factor.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:40 PM
If McDaniels doesn't draft Tebow, Manning is not here today. I 100% believe that to be fact. Manning wouldn't have come anywhere near this franchise had we been coming off back to back 4 win seasons with Orton.

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:40 PM
No credit.

Period.

Shanahan contributed Clady, Kuper, Bailey, Woodyard, Williams, Dumervil. And he was fired almost five years ago.

I think Shanahan needs his props.

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:40 PM
TX gets the thread back on track :clap2:

Now for the 2nd deariling: Clady needs to be paid. At some point with Clady, Manning, Dumervil, Champ being paid the money gets thin. Miller is gonna get paid too.

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 02:40 PM
Wouldn't you agree that a 3 or 4 win season last year would have made that a much harder sell for Elway. What Tebow did made it an easy sell. All Elway had to say was "If this crappy QB can lead our team to a division win an playoff win, imagine what you can do for us"

Yeah.. but McD wouldn't even play Tebow. If it wasn't for Fox and McCoy to figure out an offense to work around Tebow, then we wouldn't have been where we were at. Having to work around Tebow and proving that our coaches could work around a bad QB, is no different than working around Orton and saying the same thing.

I don't think Tebow had a single bit of difference to Manning coming to Denver. I think it was stictly the fact that this situation was best for Manning. It was in the AFC (and he didn't want to go to NFC where he could take away MVPs, pro-bowls, or Super Bowl runs from his brother).. didn't have a coach that was a control freak that would get in the way for Manning controlling things (like Harbaugh in SF), and had John Elway as the GM.... which could relate to Manning and the pressures of the position and being an Icon..... like the pressures he was getting from Tennessee.

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:41 PM
If McDaniels doesn't draft Tebow, Manning is not here today. I 100% believe that to be fact. Manning wouldn't have come anywhere near this franchise had we been coming off back to back 4 win seasons with Orton.

Yeah.

No.

Miller has more to do with Manning coming here than Tebow.

I was waiting for that...

:tsk:

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:42 PM
Elway definitely gets the lion's share of the credit. But Fox and McCoy deserve their's too. They bit the bullet in a league where they might not ever be hired again for switching to an offense they did and managing to eek out some wins. If anyone believes Manning would still be here without that PO appearance and win over Pittsburgh, they aren't being honest with themselves. This team was 1-4 and staring 3-13 4-12 in the face. At that point Elway has nothing to sell but $$$

This team was also 8-8 and got very fortuante that the Raiduhs do what they do best. It wasnt like Denver flat out took the division here even though they had their chances.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:43 PM
Welp, I've once again made the fatal mistake of using my own brain instead of lining up with this board's narrative of McD. Have a nice day guys! :)

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:43 PM
If McDaniels doesn't draft Tebow, Manning is not here today. I 100% believe that to be fact. Manning wouldn't have come anywhere near this franchise had we been coming off back to back 4 win seasons with Orton.

Your opinion but i disagree.

MOtorboat
11-14-2012, 02:43 PM
If by saying Tebow was the reason Manning is here and you meant because Tebow sucked dick so bad as a quarterback he left Elway no other choice but to acquire a future hall of famer, then I suppose you might have a case.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:44 PM
If by saying Tebow was the reason Manning is here and you meant because Tebow sucked dick so bad as a quarterback he left Elway no other choice but to acquire a future hall of famer, then I suppose you might have a case.

Where did I say he is THE reason? I said he is A reason. If you take out any of the reasons (Elway, Tebow, not wanting to be in the NFC, etc...) Manning is probably not here.

Ravage!!!
11-14-2012, 02:45 PM
If McDaniels doesn't draft Tebow, Manning is not here today. I 100% believe that to be fact. Manning wouldn't have come anywhere near this franchise had we been coming off back to back 4 win seasons with Orton.

So you are saying that by drafting poorly, and then not starting his bad choices, and by giving Denver it's worst record in franchise history...requires that he gets credit for for Manning coming here? Mmmm.. kay

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:45 PM
Welp, I've once again made the fatal mistake of using my own brain instead of lining up with this board's narrative of McD. Have a nice day guys! :)

So, no one can have a differing opinion on said subject now your taking your toys and going home?

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:46 PM
This team was also 8-8 and got very fortuante that the Raiduhs do what they do best. It wasnt like Denver flat out took the division here even though they had their chances.

Hence my original comment:
eek into the PO's (as gimmicky as it was). Everything about it was gimmicy-the o, the backing in, the luck in opponent's starters/stars being out, etc...Everyting but the Pitt win.

slim
11-14-2012, 02:48 PM
Welp, I've once again made the fatal mistake of using my own brain instead of lining up with this board's narrative of McD. Have a nice day guys! :)

It doesn't seem like you are using your brain at all.

McD's crappy drafting lead us to Manning? That is just silly talk.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 02:49 PM
So, no one can have a differing opinion on said subject now your taking your toys and going home?

Trying to defend McD on this board is like trying to beat a brick wall in tennis. Really not worth my time. In the eyes of 99% of this board he is and always will be the devil.

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:49 PM
If by saying Tebow was the reason Manning is here and you meant because Tebow sucked dick so bad as a quarterback he left Elway no other choice but to acquire a future hall of famer, then I suppose you might have a case.

In all fairness, this team was 1-4 with Orton and the weakest part of the schedule. Yes Tebow sucks (see punt protector and NY Jets). But it is still hard to argue Manning would be here if this team finished 4-12. While Tebow was terrible he afforded Fox and McCoy the opportunity to win games that they otherwise wouldn't have and couldn't have with Orton.

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:52 PM
Trying to defend McD on this board is like trying to beat a brick wall in tennis. Really not worth my time. In the eyes of 99% of this board he is and always will be the devil.

Well, but did it ever occur to you that people think there isnt anything to defend? I mean the guy was a complete trainwreck in many facets of how he ran/coached this team. Obviously you feel differently and thats ok but for some of us seeing someone try and defend a guy like that is pure lunacy. But im sure there are those who look at me the same way when discussing guys like Cutler. Just nature of the game mate.

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 02:53 PM
It doesn't seem like you are using your brain at all.

McD's crappy drafting lead us to Manning? That is just silly talk.

No his drafting didn't lead us into anything but Spygate. But the only draft part he got right was DT over Dez. He also got great value for Marshall. As to my original comment, I loathed the tebow trade as being a "king's ransom" but it is nice to (personally) look at those wasted picks as trading for manning. None of that undoes the extraordinary waste that is Moreno, Ayers (not so much as time passes), Quinn the TE, Alfonso smurf, et al.

Northman
11-14-2012, 02:56 PM
In all fairness, this team was 1-4 with Orton and the weakest part of the schedule. Yes Tebow sucks (see punt protector and NY Jets). But it is still hard to argue Manning would be here if this team finished 4-12. While Tebow was terrible he afforded Fox and McCoy the opportunity to win games that they otherwise wouldn't have and couldn't have with Orton.

Yea, but you dont give credit to drafting Tebow for that. At some point there may of been ANYONE who replaced Orton (who was our 4th string guy again?) and had they managed to win some games Manning may have still come here. People talking like Tebow was the ONLY reason we did that are out of their minds. Tebow provided the motiviation, Fox/McCoy provided the gameplan, and we got some serious lucky bounces but any of that could of happened behind another QB. It wasnt the player but the senario that enabled us to reach 8-8. If it were truly just based off a Tebow Manning wouldnt of even been a thought.

BroncoNut
11-14-2012, 03:06 PM
While watching the Bears game the other night, I wondered if Marshall has ever asked himself if he should have been less of an asshat in Denver and stayed so that he would now have Peyton Manning throwing to him instead of Mr Sullen Whiney Boy. Oh yeah, that would now be Jason Campbell tossing him the ball. Good luck with that Brandon.

I actually like mr sullen whiney. Alot. he's gonna be a great one.

but to get back to your point, maybe. but who knew that Campbell was going to have to take over. i think Brandon really likes playing ball with Jay, and anyway, maybe Jay will be back in a week or 2, depending on what the doctor says.

Buff
11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
While watching the Bears game the other night, I wondered if Marshall has ever asked himself if he should have been less of an asshat in Denver and stayed so that he would now have Peyton Manning throwing to him instead of Mr Sullen Whiney Boy. Oh yeah, that would now be Jason Campbell tossing him the ball. Good luck with that Brandon.

I think Brandon was perfectly happy to go anywhere that was going to pay him. Which Miami did. Now he has a strong-armed QB and his old offensive coordinator, I doubt he has any regrets.

jhildebrand
11-14-2012, 03:10 PM
Yea, but you dont give credit to drafting Tebow for that. At some point there may of been ANYONE who replaced Orton (who was our 4th string guy again?) and had they managed to win some games Manning may have still come here. People talking like Tebow was the ONLY reason we did that are out of their minds. Tebow provided the motiviation, Fox/McCoy provided the gameplan, and we got some serious lucky bounces but any of that could of happened behind another QB. It wasnt the player but the senario that enabled us to reach 8-8. If it were truly just based off a Tebow Manning wouldnt of even been a thought.

i gave te credit to fox and mccoy (after elway) in my original comments. I also said Tebow afforded them the opportunity to do something to try and win that Orton couldn't do (or any other QB on the roster (Adam Weber) for that matter). I also acknowledged the real possibility that had that failed McCoy and maybe Fox might never again see an nfl job. Guys like Fassel and Schottenheimer have been stripped from the nfl for less. That offense doesn't work without Tebow. It doesn't work now even with him because the league caught up and figured it out!

slim
11-14-2012, 03:19 PM
I actually like mr sullen whiney. Alot. he's gonna be a great one.
.

:lol:

He is not a young QB anymore. He is what you see...an average NFL QB.

Northman
11-14-2012, 03:26 PM
:lol:

He is not a young QB anymore. He is what you see...an average NFL QB.

Dont you have some dishes to wash?

DenBronx
11-14-2012, 03:58 PM
Two things.

#1 No.

#2 Who is the guy who voted Yes?

Tned
11-14-2012, 04:34 PM
If McDaniels doesn't draft Tebow, Manning is not here today. I 100% believe that to be fact. Manning wouldn't have come anywhere near this franchise had we been coming off back to back 4 win seasons with Orton.

We wouldn't have drafted Tebow, if McDaniels didn't think Cassel was the next coming of Brady.

Tned
11-14-2012, 04:40 PM
Trying to defend McD on this board is like trying to beat a brick wall in tennis. Really not worth my time. In the eyes of 99% of this board he is and always will be the devil.

Why do you feel the need to defend a guy that brought the franchise to its knees; led the team to the worst stretch in franchise history; and, embarrassed the owner in several regards? :confused:

slim
11-14-2012, 04:42 PM
Two things.

#1 No.

#2 Who is the guy who voted Yes?

Oh shit, someone really did vote yes.

My money is on bullgator.

Tned
11-14-2012, 04:43 PM
Oh shit, someone really did vote yes.

My money is on bullgator.

I knew I should have made it a public poll!

slim
11-14-2012, 04:52 PM
I knew I should have made it a public poll!

As admin, is there anyway you could figure it out? Then you could tell us and we could have a public lynching.

cmc0605
11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
This reminds me of when people ask whether or not a team should intentionally lose in order to move up the draft boards. It confuses means with ends. The goal in football is to win, it's not to stock pile players or first round draft picks. Admittedly, it's not a perfect comparison since the "lose intentionally" talk only begins when the team doesn't have a playoff shot anyway. But it's equally absurd in the mind of players, coaches, and management.

In this example, there is only one situation in which it would make sense to dump Manning in favor of a few other good players-- and that is if the combination of those players could give us a better shot of winning than right now.

The fact is that there is no plausible combination of free agents or draft picks that would make this realistic within the timeframe of 1-2 years. If we were talking about an all pro linebacker with a huge salary then it might be a different story, but the QB position is so essential in today's football game that winning with a mediocre or developing QB is a thing of the past. There is no QB available that we can field next year that can give us anything close to what Manning has given us. Not only would the passing threat drop off dramatically, but the chemistry developed and the scheme applied would change substantially. The fact is that we are currently competitive with any team in the NFL and are in the super bowl discussion; as long as this is the case, there is no reason to go off in a radically different direction.

Tned
11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
As admin, is there anyway you could figure it out? Then you could tell us and we could have a public lynching.

I don't think so. I don't think it records it unless you make it public from the get go. Also, someone already said it was an accident. I think fan in AZ or something a few pages earlier.

slim
11-14-2012, 05:09 PM
I don't think so. I don't think it records it unless you make it public from the get go. Also, someone already said it was an accident. I think fan in AZ or something a few pages earlier.

So the face of evil now has a name....boys, you know what to do.

Tned
11-14-2012, 05:12 PM
I miss read the choices, is there any way for me to officially change my vote?

:duck:

Buff
11-14-2012, 05:23 PM
This reminds me of when people ask whether or not a team should intentionally lose in order to move up the draft boards. It confuses means with ends. The goal in football is to win, it's not to stock pile players or first round draft picks. Admittedly, it's not a perfect comparison since the "lose intentionally" talk only begins when the team doesn't have a playoff shot anyway. But it's equally absurd in the mind of players, coaches, and management.

In this example, there is only one situation in which it would make sense to dump Manning in favor of a few other good players-- and that is if the combination of those players could give us a better shot of winning than right now.

The fact is that there is no plausible combination of free agents or draft picks that would make this realistic within the timeframe of 1-2 years. If we were talking about an all pro linebacker with a huge salary then it might be a different story, but the QB position is so essential in today's football game that winning with a mediocre or developing QB is a thing of the past. There is no QB available that we can field next year that can give us anything close to what Manning has given us. Not only would the passing threat drop off dramatically, but the chemistry developed and the scheme applied would change substantially. The fact is that we are currently competitive with any team in the NFL and are in the super bowl discussion; as long as this is the case, there is no reason to go off in a radically different direction.

The draft pick analogy doesn't work for me. For instance, had we pulled out some meaningless win against AZ or SD down the stretch a couple years ago when we had long been eliminated from playoff contention, we likely wouldn't have gotten Von Miller. In that instance, the reward of winning one meaningless game would have been short lived - whereas Von Miller provides countless opportunities at multiple wins down the road and is very clearly the best defensive player from that draft.

The rest of your point is well taken - you can't be so enamored with building for the future that you ignore the present - but the draft analogy I don't agree with.

Rick
11-14-2012, 05:53 PM
If they game up on Manning after this season it would be the first or second dumbest decision made by the Broncos since the start of 2009. Maybe ever.

Thnikkaman
11-14-2012, 05:58 PM
Two things.

#1 No.

#2 Who is the guy who voted Yes?

The person who voted no asked if he could change his vote since he didn't initially understand the question.

Day1BroncoFan
11-14-2012, 06:11 PM
I haven't read the entire thread yet but considering our situation at the moment, only an idiot would let Manning go.

weazel
11-14-2012, 06:13 PM
If you don't get the giggles when you think about Peyton freaking Manning being the QB on the Broncos, you aren't a fan

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 06:14 PM
Why do you feel the need to defend a guy that brought the franchise to its knees; led the team to the worst stretch in franchise history; and, embarrassed the owner in several regards? :confused:

Because I try to look at things with logic instead of emotion. No doubt he did many bad things and deserved to be fired, but that doesn't mean one should ignore the positives (and yes, there were positives) about this time here. I had no problem with his firing and am much happier with Fox, but I feel like someone should bring some balance to McD discussions, but most on here will have none of that.

Rick
11-14-2012, 06:20 PM
McDanials did 2 good things as far as I am concerned. DT and Decker is turning into a very good WR tandem and I think DT will be easily one of the best in the league very soon.

Other than that...Nothing.

Tned
11-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Because I try to look at things with logic instead of emotion. No doubt he did many bad things and deserved to be fired, but that doesn't mean one should ignore the positives (and yes, there were positives) about this time here. I had no problem with his firing and am much happier with Fox, but I feel like someone should bring some balance to McD discussions, but most on here will have none of that.

I've pointed out a LOT of things McDaniels did well, but there is no denying he was not ready for as much control as he was given and was a train wreck as a head coach/GM, which is the role he quickly got after his feud with the Goodmans.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 06:29 PM
I've pointed out a LOT of things McDaniels did well, but there is no denying he was not ready for as much control as he was given and was a train wreck as a head coach/GM, which is the role he quickly got after his feud with the Goodmans.

I completely agree with this. That was my biggest problem with the situation, how much power Bowlen gave McD. I still think McD is a great football mind but he clearly is not able to handle personnel. If McD were the coach under the current setup where Elway has full player control, I think the results of his head coaching career would be much different. I recently heard Michael Lombardi (who is pretty plugged into the GM community) say that McD is still one of the hottest coaching candidates and will likely get another opportunity soon. If the narrative of this board were true no team would ever touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Tned
11-14-2012, 06:37 PM
I completely agree with this. That was my biggest problem with the situation, how much power Bowlen gave McD. I still think McD is a great football mind but he clearly is not able to handle personnel. If McD were the coach under the current setup where Elway has full player control, I think the results of his head coaching career would be much different. I recently heard Michael Lombardi (who is pretty plugged into the GM community) say that McD is still one of the hottest coaching candidates and will likely get another opportunity soon. If the narrative of this board were true no team would ever touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Agreed. I said from almost the start, that McDaniels would probably be fired in 2-3 years in Denver, but eventually go on to be a very good/great HC. I still believe that.

That said, you are overcompensating a bit in your defense of him, because his bad (due to Bowlen/Ellis giving him full control) FAR outweighs any good that he did. I hate it, because I'm one that liked the way he ran camp (other than the ego stuff with Marshall), loved the excitement on the sideline ("we're trying to win a ******* game"), loved the fact he looked/sounded like he was "living the dream" at his pressers. However, his ego and "know it all kid" attitude just trumped all the good. He wouldn't even let coordinators and other coaching staff meet with reporters. He was beyond a control freak, but didn't have the experience/skill set yet to back it up.

BroncoWave
11-14-2012, 06:44 PM
Agreed. I said from almost the start, that McDaniels would probably be fired in 2-3 years in Denver, but eventually go on to be a very good/great HC. I still believe that.

That said, you are overcompensating a bit in your defense of him, because his bad (due to Bowlen/Ellis giving him full control) FAR outweighs any good that he did. I hate it, because I'm one that liked the way he ran camp (other than the ego stuff with Marshall), loved the excitement on the sideline ("we're trying to win a ******* game"), loved the fact he looked/sounded like he was "living the dream" at his pressers. However, his ego and "know it all kid" attitude just trumped all the good. He wouldn't even let coordinators and other coaching staff meet with reporters. He was beyond a control freak, but didn't have the experience/skill set yet to back it up.

I wouldn't have to be as over the top as I am if so many weren't over the top in the other direction. When I heard things like "he set our franchise back 10 years", I feel the need to call out that nonsense. I could post more about his numerous negatives, but what's the point? Those have been covered tenfold on this board. Since most people refuse to recognize any positives that came out of his tenure here, I try to argue more from that side. What fun is a message board when everyone posts the exact same opinion?

Tned
11-14-2012, 06:52 PM
I wouldn't have to be as over the top as I am if so many weren't over the top in the other direction. When I heard things like "he set our franchise back 10 years", I feel the need to call out that nonsense. I could post more about his numerous negatives, but what's the point? Those have been covered tenfold on this board. Since most people refuse to recognize any positives that came out of his tenure here, I try to argue more from that side. What fun is a message board when everyone posts the exact same opinion?

Clearly, he didn't set our franchise back 10 years, but he did cause the greatest fan apathy in 30 years or beyond, led the Broncos to the worst stretch in franchise history, presided over a scandal, traded away a franchise QB because he thought Matt Cassel was da bom (I'm not cool, did I use that right?), got into a pissing contest with the star wide receiver, for no reason, traded a first round pick to pickup a slow, undersized CB in the 2nd round. The list goes on and on.

Oh, did I mention that he shortened the season ticket waiting list from 10-12 years to 3-5 years? Not only has there never been a bigger train wreck in Broncos history, there have been few greater train wrecks in NFL in the modern era.

As I say, I agree he has loads of potential and has a great football mind, but overall as a head coach, it would have been hard to do worse if your goal was to sabotage a franchise.

Dean
11-14-2012, 07:47 PM
They should bring Tebow back.







trololololol

We don't use a fullback much. ;)

Az Snake
11-14-2012, 09:06 PM
.


Everyone knows who is responsible for Peyton "choosing" the Broncos.

Papa John brought Manning to Denver !

They "teamed up" to "slice" into the Colorado pizza market.
Both are making bundles of money.

Meanwhile, $20 million/yr is a paltry sum to pay for an elite QB and a dam good coach.
No brainer, pay the Man !!!


.

FanInAZ
11-14-2012, 09:13 PM
The person who voted no asked if he could change his vote since he didn't initially understand the question.

Actually, I understood the question, but I misread the answer. I was on the light rail at the time and I was distracted by the commotion of all of the people getting on & off at the stop we were at right as I was voting.

Tned
11-14-2012, 09:23 PM
.


Everyone knows who is responsible for Peyton "choosing" the Broncos.

Papa John brought Manning to Denver !

They "teamed up" to "slice" into the Colorado pizza market.
Both are making bundles of money.

Meanwhile, $20 million/yr is a paltry sum to pay for an elite QB and a dam good coach.
No brainer, pay the Man !!!


.

Nicely done. Now I'm hungry, but there is no Papa John's here. So sad...

Nomad
11-14-2012, 09:41 PM
.


Everyone knows who is responsible for Peyton "choosing" the Broncos.

Papa John brought Manning to Denver !

They "teamed up" to "slice" into the Colorado pizza market.
Both are making bundles of money.

Meanwhile, $20 million/yr is a paltry sum to pay for an elite QB and a dam good coach.
No brainer, pay the Man !!!


.


Papa Manning:D!!

Tebowtime2011
11-14-2012, 11:12 PM
Keep him. Even if he's injured he is valuable as a mentor to whoever is next.

I want to see him be a Bronco coach when his playing days are done. most likely if he were to coach it would be for the colts.

Davii
11-14-2012, 11:27 PM
most likely if he were to coach it would be for the colts.

Depends... Don't think just because he played there so long that he would automatically go back... The organization would have say as well, what if they already have a qb coach they're invested in? What if Manning wins a couple rings here? There are way too many variables. Hell' it's possible he's not pleased with the way he was handled at the end...

BroncoWave
11-15-2012, 12:06 AM
I don't think Manning will ever be a coach. How many all-time great players wind up being coaches? It's not a whole lot. I feel like when you are that great, sometimes it's hard to teach things in simpler terms to someone who has a much lower level of talent than you.

FanInAZ
11-15-2012, 12:31 AM
I don't think Manning will ever be a coach. How many all-time great players wind up being coaches? It's not a whole lot. I feel like when you are that great, sometimes it's hard to teach things in simpler terms to someone who has a much lower level of talent than you.

I remember hearing years ago that the reason Larry Bird & Magic Johnson didn't succeed at coaching was that they couldn't figure out how to teach their players how to do things that came naturally to them. That & the fact that too many of the best players were divas before the term became popularized.

Buff
11-15-2012, 12:37 AM
I don't think Manning will ever be a coach. How many all-time great players wind up being coaches? It's not a whole lot. I feel like when you are that great, sometimes it's hard to teach things in simpler terms to someone who has a much lower level of talent than you.

If anything, I think he is on a management/ownership track like Elway. Guy is already worth a gazillion dollars, now he owns 20+ pizza joints.

bcbronc
11-15-2012, 04:13 AM
How so? But who's talking "said and done?" Marshall, right now, is beter than DT. He was second in the NFL with TD catches, and that was with Cutler throwing him the ball over Manning. Marshall is twice the guy to try and defend, and does it week in and week out with teams having to double team and bracket him due to the fact they don't have a decent on the other side of the field. Marshall is a Beast across the middle and in traffic. He doesn't have the flat out speed that DT has, but he has more than enough, and is MUCH tougher to bring down after the catch than DT is.

Not really much difference between the two tbh. Both big, BM is 3rd in the league in yards, DT 4th 13 yards behind. BM has more catches 67-54, but DT has more YAC 336-225. More TDs for BM but more options for Manning to throw to here. So would you rather have DT + 2 2nds or BM + 1 1st?

For me, the deciding factor is that BM's personality disorder wouldn't have been diagnosed without going to Miami, and Miami still dealt him at a loss 1 year later.

Less drama and more explosive, I'd rather have DT. Marshall is a great player though, the only one from the Great Purge that proved to be anything more than mediocre.


Clearly, he didn't set our franchise back 10 years, but he did cause the greatest fan apathy in 30 years or beyond, led the Broncos to the worst stretch in franchise history, presided over a scandal, traded away a franchise QB because he thought Matt Cassel was da bom (I'm not cool, did I use that right?), got into a pissing contest with the star wide receiver, for no reason, traded a first round pick to pickup a slow, undersized CB in the 2nd round. The list goes on and on.

Meh, we're not where we are as a franchise today without McDaniel's tenure. I like where we are, so I can consider McDaniel's stint as net positive. We needed to purge the mediocracy, and it took a year of losing to do it. Now we got Von and McDaniel's just a foot note.


Oh, did I mention that he shortened the season ticket waiting list from 10-12 years to 3-5 years? Not only has there never been a bigger train wreck in Broncos history, there have been few greater train wrecks in NFL in the modern era.

The economy must have played at least some roll in that.



As I say, I agree he has loads of potential and has a great football mind, but overall as a head coach, it would have been hard to do worse if your goal was to sabotage a franchise.

short term pain for long term gain. We're a contender now, and we wouldn't be if we still had Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis and no Von Miller. Agreed with McDaniel's was given more power than he could handle, and some of his draft evaluations weren't very good, and he was a douche. But when it comes to getting rid of those guys I named, imo it's been shown to absolutely have been the right move.

Tned
11-15-2012, 07:34 AM
Meh, we're not where we are as a franchise today without McDaniel's tenure. I like where we are, so I can consider McDaniel's stint as net positive. We needed to purge the mediocracy, and it took a year of losing to do it. Now we got Von and McDaniel's just a foot note.


Oh my God, I just needed to quote this for posterity. A "net positive"? Wow.



The economy must have played at least some roll in that.

Really? Way to just pull something out of thin air.

1. That's why there were some games with 10,000 no shows. People that had already paid for their tickets didn't even both coming to the game. Now, the Broncos are setting records for the fewest no shows in team history.

2. That's why club seats that they were having trouble giving away during the McDaneils era are completely sold out now.

The waiting list for season tickets is now back up to nearly 40,000 people.



short term pain for long term gain. We're a contender now, and we wouldn't be if we still had Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis and no Von Miller. Agreed with McDaniel's was given more power than he could handle, and some of his draft evaluations weren't very good, and he was a douche. But when it comes to getting rid of those guys I named, imo it's been shown to absolutely have been the right move.


No, we wouldn't be exactly where we are without what amounted to one of the worst head coaching stints in the history of the NFL, but that's like saying that a guy that nearly dies from testicular cancer, goes on to adopt two kids, has a nice little family and then someone else says, see, that cancer that cost him his testicles, landed him on a year of chemo in a hospital and bankrupted him, was REALLY a good thing....

Timmy!
11-15-2012, 07:45 AM
This thread is full of lulz....

Northman
11-15-2012, 08:00 AM
Depends... Don't think just because he played there so long that he would automatically go back... The organization would have say as well, what if they already have a qb coach they're invested in? What if Manning wins a couple rings here? There are way too many variables. Hell' it's possible he's not pleased with the way he was handled at the end...

Agreed.

For as loved and as long as Favre played in GB i dont think he would coach them (if he decided to go that route) because there is a bit of bitter feelings there. While Manning and Irsay supposedly left on good terms im not so sure Peyton would run into open arms there. What Peyton is doing now with us has to be some kind of redemption for the Colts giving up on him.

bcbronc
11-16-2012, 02:31 AM
Oh my God, I just needed to quote this for posterity. A "net positive"? Wow.

Yup, addition by subtraction + Von Miller = net positive. But I'm open to hearing you argue we'd be in better shape as a franchise without Von and with Cutler instead of Manning.

Because without the McDaniel's era, we don't have either...no #2 draft pick, instead we carry on 8-8 almost make the playoffs and draft in the middle of RD1...and no Peyton Manning if Cutler was still here, at least not likely.



Really? Way to just pull something out of thin air.

1. That's why there were some games with 10,000 no shows. People that had already paid for their tickets didn't even both coming to the game. Now, the Broncos are setting records for the fewest no shows in team history.

2. That's why club seats that they were having trouble giving away during the McDaneils era are completely sold out now.


This means what exactly? Fans had something better to do than go watch a bad team already out of the playoffs? Fan apathy was growing after a decade without a playoff game? People had no interest in going to see the magic Kyle Orton could produce any given Sunday? I mean do you think it was the coach keeping all these people away, or the product on the field? Put another way, do you think the fans would have come back if McDaniel's managed to put a winning product on the field?

Either way, it's completely meaningless. It was a bad time for fans and franchise, no kidding. But an actual tank and rebuild was what this franchise needed, not another UFA band aid almost getting us a 17th game. Fans deciding not to bother going to those games doesn't change the long term benefit that #2OA pick is providing.



The waiting list for season tickets is now back up to nearly 40,000 people.


Ya, I know. Hurricane Joshy was supposed to have set us back a decade--at least--and one year after he's gone we're div champs and win our 1st playoff game since '05...two years after he's gone we're looking good to repeat as div champs, have our first >.500 season in a while, and are considered one of the major players in the conference. Tix sales are back up, merch sales are back up, we're a primetime mainstay (cept when our opponent's too sad), etc etc etc.


No, we wouldn't be exactly where we are without what amounted to one of the worst head coaching stints in the history of the NFL, but that's like saying that a guy that nearly dies from testicular cancer, goes on to adopt two kids, has a nice little family and then someone else says, see, that cancer that cost him his testicles, landed him on a year of chemo in a hospital and bankrupted him, was REALLY a good thing....

Well I don't really get this analogy because I don't live in a country where people go bankrupt because they get cancer, but if you asked that guy if he'd trade his two adopted kids and his nice little family for that lost testicle, what do you think he'd say?

Would you trade Von Miller and Peyton Manning today for two more years of Shanahan instead of McDaniels? I love Shanny as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't.

Tned
11-16-2012, 07:44 AM
This means what exactly? Fans had something better to do than go watch a bad team already out of the playoffs? Fan apathy was growing after a decade without a playoff game? People had no interest in going to see the magic Kyle Orton could produce any given Sunday? I mean do you think it was the coach keeping all these people away, or the product on the field? Put another way, do you think the fans would have come back if McDaniel's managed to put a winning product on the field?


The Broncos were only starting Kyle Orton, because things blew up after your hero, Josh McDaniels, attempted to trade for the guy he thought was the next coming, Matt Cassel.

Ravage!!!
11-16-2012, 11:13 AM
I find it absolutely mind-boggling how anyone could see that the product on the field today is BECAUSE of McDaniels. Thats such backwards thinking, that it doesn't even make sense.

Ravage!!!
11-16-2012, 11:16 AM
There are nicer buildings put up after large earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, floods, and hurricanes. So after people see their town being wiped out and then spend the hard work and time rebuilding what was destroyed to the ground..... do you think they believe the disaster was "for the best" in the end?

The question was asked "would the fans have bought seats if McDaniels would have won?" yes, but he DIDN'T. Thats the point. We aren't winning now BECAUSE of what McDaniels did, but because of the rebuilding effort to FIX the destruction that he caused. We are winning despite having to deal with that unbelievable crap that stopped here in Denver. Its impressive on how well Elway and Fox have done to recoupe, and it shows that this team wasn't nearly as "void" of talent than McDaniels made it look.

I'm not thanking the hurricane for having a nicer building today. Thats the result of fixing was something else, destroyed.

Jsteve01
11-16-2012, 02:45 PM
There are nicer buildings put up after large earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, floods, and hurricanes. So after people see their town being wiped out and then spend the hard work and time rebuilding what was destroyed to the ground..... do you think they believe the disaster was "for the best" in the end?

The question was asked "would the fans have bought seats if McDaniels would have won?" yes, but he DIDN'T. Thats the point. We aren't winning now BECAUSE of what McDaniels did, but because of the rebuilding effort to FIX the destruction that he caused. We are winning despite having to deal with that unbelievable crap that stopped here in Denver. Its impressive on how well Elway and Fox have done to recoupe, and it shows that this team wasn't nearly as "void" of talent than McDaniels made it look.

I'm not thanking the hurricane for having a nicer building today. Thats the result of fixing was something else, destroyed.this is a fantastic analogy

capt. Jack
11-16-2012, 06:10 PM
He and Elway will own this team in 10 years! Getting Manning is one of the best things the Broncos ever did!

bcbronc
11-17-2012, 03:25 AM
There are nicer buildings put up after large earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, floods, and hurricanes. So after people see their town being wiped out and then spend the hard work and time rebuilding what was destroyed to the ground..... do you think they believe the disaster was "for the best" in the end?

The question was asked "would the fans have bought seats if McDaniels would have won?" yes, but he DIDN'T. Thats the point. We aren't winning now BECAUSE of what McDaniels did, but because of the rebuilding effort to FIX the destruction that he caused. We are winning despite having to deal with that unbelievable crap that stopped here in Denver. Its impressive on how well Elway and Fox have done to recoupe, and it shows that this team wasn't nearly as "void" of talent than McDaniels made it look.

I'm not thanking the hurricane for having a nicer building today. Thats the result of fixing was something else, destroyed.

come on Rav, it's pretty silly to compare the destroyed homes and lost lives of a natural disaster to a losing season in football. Yeah, obviously you're not going to say "our new waterfront is so nice it was worth the 17 people that died in that storm!" But when an old, decrepit, glued together building with no indoor plumbing, dry rot and a leaky roof gets knocked down and a sparkling new plaza gets rebuilt, why sit and lament how nice the facade of the old building was?

Simply and undeniably, McDaniels, for all his **** ups--and there were many--has been absolutely vindicated in purging the core he inherited. It was a core of mediocre football players (with the exception of the baggage-heavy Marshall). History is lineal, it's not BECAUSE of McDaniel's that were here, but we couldn't be here without McDaniels.

There's a reason farmers will use fire to clear a field for planting. Not only is it easier, but the resulting ash makes fertile soil. McDaniels inherited a stagnant swamp of 8-8 and almost making the playoffs, and when he got booted he left behind a fertile field ready for competent football people to cultivate. Fox and Elway have done a great job of that so far, and no one was happier than me when Fox was named HC.

I understand McDaniels was an ass, and hurt some feelings, and traded away some favourite players. Still doesn't change the fact that an actual rock bottom rebuild was exactly what this franchise needed, not staying the course with overrated players and UFAs on their miracle mile. I don't miss McDaniels one bit, but I don't miss the mire we were stuck in for a decade either.

Canmore
11-17-2012, 04:28 AM
If you don't get the giggles when you think about Peyton freaking Manning being the QB on the Broncos, you aren't a fan

I laugh all the time. Peyton Manning is a member of the Denver Broncos. How weird is that? Guess what? He is throwing the ball like ...Peyton Manning. He is a steal.

Ravage!!!
11-17-2012, 11:31 AM
I understand McDaniels was an ass, and hurt some feelings, and traded away some favourite players. Still doesn't change the fact that an actual rock bottom rebuild was exactly what this franchise needed, not staying the course with overrated players and UFAs on their miracle mile. I don't miss McDaniels one bit, but I don't miss the mire we were stuck in for a decade either.

I think this is the biggest mistake of them all. I don't even know how this makes sense considering the young, pro-bowl, talent we had on this team. WHY would ANY coach dismantle that? It's probably why NONE have. It makes no sense now, and didnt' make sense then. YOU want to give credit to McDaniels because of the product we have on the field, when its obvious that the product we have on the field is a result of rebuilding AFTER McDaniels, and DESPITE McDaniels. You can't POSSIBLY be giving ANY credence to the fact that we very well could have CASSEL as our starting QB right now, or even Tim Tebow when you give him credit for whats on the field at this moment. THAT was his great "rock bottom rebuild" plan. Brilliant.

When a disaster tears down and wipes out a city, new, shiny, taller, newer buildings are in place. The City looks nicer, cleaner, and prettier. The streets are rebuilt for better traffic flow and everything runs much more smoothly. Doesn't mean I'm giving 'credit' to the disaster, which is what McDaniels was..... a complete and total disaster. Name me another coach in history, that has taken this complete bs "rock bottom rebuild" that you feel we "needed?" ONe. Give me ONE coach that fired away the kind of YOUNG talent we had, in the short amount of time that he was here. I mean, if its something we "needed".. then surely other teams in history have "needed" such an absurd amount of purge, right?

BroncoJoe
11-17-2012, 11:52 AM
Are we going to have this conversation next year too? My understanding is the only reason that clause is in there is in the event Manning's neck wasn't healed, or gets hurt again. Each year has an option. There's no way in hell they let him go.

bcbronc
11-18-2012, 12:17 AM
I think this is the biggest mistake of them all. I don't even know how this makes sense considering the young, pro-bowl, talent we had on this team. WHY would ANY coach dismantle that? It's probably why NONE have. It makes no sense now, and didnt' make sense then. YOU want to give credit to McDaniels because of the product we have on the field, when its obvious that the product we have on the field is a result of rebuilding AFTER McDaniels, and DESPITE McDaniels. You can't POSSIBLY be giving ANY credence to the fact that we very well could have CASSEL as our starting QB right now, or even Tim Tebow when you give him credit for whats on the field at this moment. THAT was his great "rock bottom rebuild" plan. Brilliant.

When a disaster tears down and wipes out a city, new, shiny, taller, newer buildings are in place. The City looks nicer, cleaner, and prettier. The streets are rebuilt for better traffic flow and everything runs much more smoothly. Doesn't mean I'm giving 'credit' to the disaster, which is what McDaniels was..... a complete and total disaster. Name me another coach in history, that has taken this complete bs "rock bottom rebuild" that you feel we "needed?" ONe. Give me ONE coach that fired away the kind of YOUNG talent we had, in the short amount of time that he was here. I mean, if its something we "needed".. then surely other teams in history have "needed" such an absurd amount of purge, right?

Rav, the young "pro bowl talent" has all gone on to be decidedly mediocre, with the exception of Marshall and you can't just ignore his baggage.

Do you think Manning comes here if Cutler is still here? Obviously we don't know either way, but I don't think PM wanted to come somewhere and cost someone there job. We didn't have a legitimate NFL QB, and I believe that was PART of the appeal.

I even said I wasn't giving the credit to McDaniels. The credit goes to Fox and Elway for drafting Miller and wooing Manning. You can go on hypotheticals all you want, but fact is Manning is our QB now, not Cassels, not Tebow. Fact is we've upgraded all the talent we lost...McGahee >>>> Hillis, Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x100 Cutler, Decker, DT, Stokley >= Marshall, Royal, Lloyd (this is the only position that's close, and even if you feel Marshall et al is better than what we currently have, it's not by much either way), Scheffler isn't better than either of our top 2 TEs.

The talent you wanted to build around wasn't going to take us anywhere. That's the only thing I give McDaniels "credit" for, getting rid of a stagnant, over rated core that wasn't going anywhere. You can go around and around on this forever, but until you tell me how we'd be better off without Miller and with Cutler instead of Manning, then you're just avoiding the reality of the situation.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not giving McDaniels credit for building the team we have now. But he did clear a field full of weeds and scrub brush so that JE and JF could come in and plant some cash crops. Those plants are starting to mature and getting ready for harvest, and like it or not, it wouldn't have been possible without McDaniels blowing shit up.

as for another coach that did this "complete bs" rock bottom rebuild...how 'bout dem Cowboys? Remember when Jimmy Johnson traded away their only good player? How'd they do the next season? You think Cowboy fans are still crying like kicked puppies over their best player getting traded and then having a 1-2 win season immediately after? I'm betting they got over it, just like I have.

You should too. Things haven't been this good in Broncos Country since The Duke retired. Thank the football gods we stopped band aiding our way to 8-8 and FINALLY did the proper rebuild we'd been needing for a decade.