Moving DJ inside

[Superchop 7]

Legwold reports DJ will move inside.....along with Brookings......in a 3-4 alignment......this is bad news for Doom who will lose playing time......thoughts?

[SoCalImport]

Why wouldn't the OLBrs in that 3/4 be VonDoom?.

[Mike]

I hope this doesn't screw the mojo the defense had going.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


Which is why upon his return it would be no shock, in fact look for it in some situations, for the Broncos to play a 3-4 look once in a while and simply play all four of the linebackers with Miller and Woodyard as outside linebackers, Brooking and Williams on the inside.

The key to making that work, especially on early downs, would be to find a way for Elvis Dumervil to play in the defensive line. Dumervil would be undersized for that duty in any 3-4 look, so the Broncos could go with a more traditional three-man look up front with Derek Wolfe, Kevin Vickerson and Justin Bannan up front and use Dumervil in a rotational role, with the focus being on passing downs.

Dumervil also led the league in sacks, with 17, as an outside linebacker in the 3-4. He then played down in a three-point stance for most of those sacks.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21896833/broncos-figure-work-d-j-williams-into-lineup

[swaiy]

I dont understand how that would work.

Bannan, Vickerson, and Wolfe on the line? What happens to Woodyard?

On one hand, there would be some wicked disguises for who is going to blitz plus there would be no film on it making it a nice wrinkle to have provided we havent shown that look before.

Who on the DL would draw a double team? Good thing my livelihood isnt based on figuring shit like this out. Im interested to see what they do.

[CoachChaz]

Going to a 3-4 look on a regular basis just creates more problems. I can see running it in some scenarios, but at any regular rate, the personnel just isnt there.

[Northman]

Actually, you can put Doom out at LB. He had his best year in the 3-4 with 17 sacks.

[Chef Zambini]

versatility, flexability.
we have to rtust JDR to utilize his talent to their full potential and match our defensive front to the opponents down, distance and personnel.
of course this would all be so easy if he just moved champ to safety.

[slim]

It was speculation about a sub-package, not a change in base philosophy.

Nice job in completely overstating it, though.

[TXBRONC]

Legwold isn't reporting this as fact he's speculating.

It would be stupid to take Dumervil off the field just to use him as nickle pass rusher.

Legwold apparently doesn't know any of 3-4 looks that Denver uses Dumervil is on the field.

What he's suggesting would be to turn the defense upside when things are just starting to gel. I don't think Fox and Del Rio are foolish enough to make those kind of changes just for the sake of making changes.

[TXBRONC]

It was speculation about a sub-package, not a change in base philosophy.

Nice job in completely overstating it, though.

Thanks Slim.

[NightTerror218]

If you read the legwold report it has 3-4 ONCE IN A WHILE. Not change the defense midseason to 3-4 from 4-3 base.

[SR]

It was speculation about a sub-package, not a change in base philosophy.

Nice job in completely overstating it, though.

My thoughts exactly.

[SR]

Good job SuperCHOP.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

versatility, flexability.
we have to rtust JDR to utilize his talent to their full potential and match our defensive front to the opponents down, distance and personnel.
of course this would all be so easy if he just moved champ to safety.

WELL - of course - move Champ to safety, and Williams would then be a corner back

[shank]

Good job....... Super.......CHOP.

fify

[shank]

Good job....... Super.......CHOP.

fify

[DenBronx]

You guys can correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DJ play ILB when we ran a 3-4? Now we play a 4-3.....might actually play to his strength. Either way this is an all around better defense when he played ILB last time. I think he will play better than Brooking in the middle....and this defense taste blood right now.

So who fills in on special teams now that Mays is on IR?

[DenBronx]

Wait I just read the initial post again. We are moving back to a 3-4? Why are we trying to fix what isnt broke? We are doing fine in a 4-3. I would much rather Doom on the field than Brooking.

[slim]

Wait I just read the initial post again. We are moving back to a 3-4? Why are we trying to fix what isnt broke? We are doing fine in a 4-3. I would much rather Doom on the field than Brooking.

The OP was total bullshit :listen:

[Ravage!!!]

Wait I just read the initial post again. We are moving back to a 3-4? Why are we trying to fix what isnt broke? We are doing fine in a 4-3. I would much rather Doom on the field than Brooking.

We aren't moving to a 34 and DJ has always been a WLB, .. but he did play MLB on year for us while we played a 43. He did "ok". .but it wasnt' his strong suite. Takes a different kind of LB, and different mentality, to play MLB. DJ looks for angles for tackles,a nd MLB is more about just filling holes and blasting through openings. So its not really more to his strong suite, but, it is something DJ has had a year of experience at. Not sure he would be better than Brooking, but he's younger and faster than Brooking.

[Davii]

of course this would all be so easy if he just moved champ to safety.

:pound: You know, I said this exact thing earlier today. I was discussing the attack on our embassy in Libya and was asked what could've been done to improve safety, naturally the answer is Champ. In the world according to Zam everything is fixed by moving Champ.

Iran's pesky nuclear program? Move Champ!
Teenage angst? Champ has it covered!
Cold? Champ can be your safety blanket!
Girl trouble? Champ could be your wingman over the top!
Car trouble? Champ at safety fixes everything!

Act now and you get Safety Champ at an unbelievable value! Hurry, operators are standing by!

[Slick]

I wouldnt be in any big hurry inserting DJ into the line up now that Brooking has replaced Mays. They seem to have a good chemisrty going.

[BroncoNut]

I think we should move them all inside, at night anyway. . nighttime temperatures have been steadily dropping

[slim]

I think we should move them all inside, at night anyway. . nighttime temperatures have been steadily dropping

That is why they have a huddle, Nut. They should be OK outside as long as they share body heat.

[BroncoNut]

That is why they have a huddle, Nut. They should be OK outside as long as they share body heat.

omg lmmfao!!!!!!!!

[slim]

omg lmmfao!!!!!!!!

Stop mocking me, Nut.

[BroncoNut]

Stop mocking me, Nut.

actually I was being ironic becuase my jokes are pretty stupid too. speaking of which I need one for tonight. Ill see if I cna';t find that engineering joke in the jokes thread. I used one of Top's jokes last time and let me just say that I wish I had some chicken wire in front of me

[Davii]

actually I was being ironic becuase my jokes are pretty stupid too. speaking of which I need one for tonight. Ill see if I cna';t find that engineering joke in the jokes thread. I used one of Top's jokes last time and let me just say that I wish I had some chicken wire in front of me

You doing standup tonight Nut?

[BroncoNut]

You doing standup tonight Nut?

I've been tasked this year with being the Lecturer for our K of C meetings. I have to get up at the end of the mmeting and do what is called the Good of the order. make a few comments then tell a joke, try to make people enjoy themselves.

[LTC Pain]

Move Champ to MLB!!! This way he can also stop the run and be in the center of the defensive play! Problem solved!

[Davii]

I've been tasked this year with being the Lecturer for our K of C meetings. I have to get up at the end of the mmeting and do what is called the Good of the order. make a few comments then tell a joke, try to make people enjoy themselves.

Sounds like fun Nut, I'm sure you'll do well. Just relax, that's the key to public speaking, relaxation and confidence.

So, at these K of C meetings, do they have chicken? If not, I think they're missing a great sponsorship opportunity. I mean, K of C brought to you by KFC. Just makes sense.

[BroncoNut]

Sounds like fun Nut, I'm sure you'll do well. Just relax, that's the key to public speaking, relaxation and confidence.

So, at these K of C meetings, do they have chicken? If not, I think they're missing a great sponsorship opportunity. I mean, K of C brought to you by KFC. Just makes sense.

t can be fun, but Im not into it tonite. I need to get soemthing prepared. I think I'll do something on Halloween the Pagan Holiday or something like that. we switched to the 1st and 3rd Thursdays for the holidays this month so that means we are meeting 2 thursdays in a row. Davii, that's like playing a game of football on Sunday and again on Thursday.

I might bring that up tonight Davii, the kfc thing. I like that.

[Davii]

t can be fun, but Im not into it tonite. I need to get soemthing prepared. I think I'll do something on Halloween the Pagan Holiday or something like that. we switched to the 1st and 3rd Thursdays for the holidays this month so that means we are meeting 2 thursdays in a row. Davii, that's like playing a game of football on Sunday and again on Thursday.

I might bring that up tonight Davii, the kfc thing. I like that.

You could also ask what Manning and OJ have in common....

Slow, white, Bronco.

[BroncoNut]

You could also ask what Manning and OJ have in common....

Slow, white, Bronco.

i think I'm going to go wiht this in the spirit of the holidays

what do hillbillys do on halloween?

pumpkin

[slim]

t can be fun, but Im not into it tonite. I need to get soemthing prepared. I think I'll do something on Halloween the Pagan Holiday or something like that. we switched to the 1st and 3rd Thursdays for the holidays this month so that means we are meeting 2 thursdays in a row. Davii, that's like playing a game of football on Sunday and again on Thursday.

I might bring that up tonight Davii, the kfc thing. I like that.

Today is All Saints Day, Nut.

You might could mention that.

[BroncoNut]

You could also ask what Manning and OJ have in common....

Slow, white, Bronco.

oh yeah, I heard the OJ /elway version of that joke years ago. I'm in Redskin country here, they might not get it.

[BroncoNut]

Today is All Saints Day, Nut.

You might could mention that.

I think I will do that slim, and mention that we are 1/3 of the way through the fraternal year already. to the date

[Nomad]

Today is All Saints Day, Nut.

You might could mention that.

And tomorrow is All Souls Day for Catholics.......for non-Catholics, it's the Day of the Dead.

[NightTerror218]

And tomorrow is All Souls Day for Catholics.......for non-Catholics, it's the Day of the Dead.

its weird being born on that day........


you take kids out trick or treating lats night? My neighbor does not get a lot of kids and I am next to middle school.

[Nomad]

its weird being born on that day........


you take kids out trick or treating lats night? My neighbor does not get a lot of kids and I am next to middle school.


I work nights, so I was leaving when they headed out. My sons (15 & 14) took my little girl out for about 30 minutes, but she got cold and tired of walking the snowy sidewalks.

[NightTerror218]

I work nights, so I was leaving when they headed out. My sons (15 & 14) took my little girl out for about 30 minutes, but she got cold and tired of walking the snowy sidewalks.

my street snowblowed the sidewalks. I think I had 20 or so kids come to door. What part of ER are you in. You dont happen to have a jeep with a bronco tire cover over spare do you?

[Simple Jaded]

Actually, you can put Doom out at LB. He had his best year in the 3-4 with 17 sacks.

You gotta question the sanity of any DC that starts Woodyard over Dumervil at OLB in a 34.......

[Rick]

In reality this team should stay 4-3 base as i believe that is where they are strongest.

They do have an interesting talent mix though that i believe could make the defensive front versatile enough to toss in a few different looks throughout the game to confuse the offense.

4-3 base

Doom
Vick
Bannon
Wolfe

Miller
DJ
WW

**********************************
3-4 Pass Rush

Wolfe
Vick
Bannon

Miller
DJ
WW
Doom

*********************************

3-4 Run

Wolfe
Vick
Bannon

Miller
DJ
Brooking
Doom

Maybe experiment in this front with WW at SS?

***************************************

5-2 Front(pass rush heavy)

Miller
Wolfe
Vick
Ayers
Doom

DJ
WW

**********************************************

Don't mind me, I am just Maddonising, still think they could put out some versatile fronts :)

[TXBRONC]

In reality this team should stay 4-3 base as i believe that is where they are strongest.

They do have an interesting talent mix though that i believe could make the defensive front versatile enough to toss in a few different looks throughout the game to confuse the offense.

4-3 base

Doom
Vick
Bannon
Wolfe

Miller
DJ
WW

**********************************
3-4 Pass Rush

Wolfe
Vick
Bannon

Miller
DJ
WW
Doom

*********************************

3-4 Run

Wolfe
Vick
Bannon

Miller
DJ
Brooking
Doom

Maybe experiment in this front with WW at SS?

***************************************

5-2 Front(pass rush heavy)

Miller
Wolfe
Vick
Ayers
Doom

DJ
WW

**********************************************

Don't mind me, I am just Maddonising, still think they could put out some versatile fronts :)

Rick does that all the time. They're in their sub-packages more than they are their base defense.

[Rick]

True, but I am not sure how viable the packages I described really would be. They look good in my distorted sleep deprived mind.

[Superchop 7]

"It seems that teams now are rethinking the (middle linebacker) position," said Harris. "It used to be a pretty one-dimensional spot. You know, stop the run for two downs, come off the field on third (down). But there's no rule I know of that says your middle linebacker can't be a playmaker. And we're starting to see teams understand that now." Len Pasquerelli article.

It seems to me that you could have a base 4-3 and a nice rotation at Mike with DJ and Brooking.......keep em fresh.

fify-fify

[Joel]

I must preface my comments by saying I REALLY hope our coaches aren't stupid enough to fix what isn't broken: A defense that has improved each game since benching Mays in favor of Brooking, or even Irving, culminating in SHUTTIND DOWN one of the NFLs best offenses last week.

Actually, you can put Doom out at LB. He had his best year in the 3-4 with 17 sacks.
Yup, so that's a lot more sensible than making him an undersized 3-4 DE and Woodyard an undersized 3-4 OLB. Remember all the complaints DJ isn't a good tackler because, even though he is always quick to the ball and wraps up, he's so light he gets dragged downfield? DJ's listed at 13 lbs. HEAVIER than Woodyard, so what's likely to happen if Woodyard plays 3-4 OLB? Bearing in mind that the last time we went to a 3-4 DJ moved inside, where his excellent pass coverage was a greater asset and his smaller size less of a liability. Woodyard's playing at a safetys weight, but since, like safeties, 4-3 Wills are primarily concerned with pass coverage, which he plays well, he gets away with it. 3-4 OLBs are wholly different animals who must fight through blocks from T/TEs and run stop more on the outside since the DEs are working inside more than they do in a 4-3. That's why most 3-4 OLBs have 20-30 lbs. on Woodyard, and why he would get run over playing that position. Mays would be a better choice; he sucks in coverage, but most teams underutilize 3-4 OLBs in coverage, and Mays DOES know how to blow up a runner (if, of course, he manages to find one and not run past the tackle....)

A 3-4 makes some sense on paper (until/unless someone got hurt.) OLBs: Miller and Doom, backed by Mays. ILB: DJ and Woodyard/Brooking. DE: Wolfe, Bannan/Ayers. NT: Vickerson. The last would be our Achilles heel, because Vickerson's just not stout enough to be the immovable object over center that a 3-4 NT MUST be, and there is NO ONE to rotate with him/replace him when hurt. He's pleasntly surprised me since we lost Warren for the year, but he's not Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton. Even if he were, this isn't 1960; 3-4 NTs can't be expected to fight through constant double teams 80% of the game, still stuffing runs up the gut and pushing the inside of the pocket.

So, yeah, DJ at Mike might be logical since Mays is awful and Brooking isn't as fast as he used to be. Our Ds weak link was clearly Mays, as demonstrated by the fact simply removing him made it much better. It didn't matter whether Brooking replaced him or, when Brooking was hurt for a few plays against SD, Irving did: Our D is statistically and actually better as long as ANYONE but Mays is at Mike. That doesn't mean we should totally rebuild what's finally working pretty well, and even if we use a situational 3-4 package (hardly a radical idea) putting Woodyard at OLB and Doom at DE (or on the bench) sounds like an awful idea; it's just not a favorable matchup for us. If Woodyard belongs anywhere in a 3-4 LB corps (which is quite debatable) it's ILB, just as Doom belongs at 3-4 OLB, not 3-4 DE.

[Joel]

"It seems that teams now are rethinking the (middle linebacker) position," said Harris. "It used to be a pretty one-dimensional spot. You know, stop the run for two downs, come off the field on third (down). But there's no rule I know of that says your middle linebacker can't be a playmaker. And we're starting to see teams understand that now." Len Pasquerelli article.


It seems to me that you could have a base 4-3 and a nice rotation at Mike with DJ and Brooking.......keep em fresh.


fify-fify
Someone is showing a bad knowledge of NFL history: The 4-3 MLB BEGAN as a playmaker; he stood out from the 4-3 OLBs solely because he could cover, runstop AND blitz with equal proficiency. That combination's lethal anywhere, but particularly in the middle of the field, where the Mike can get to any other spot quickly. The 4-3 MLBs very existence is a direct response to the PASSES increasing prominence in the '50s (I know, I know, but compared to the '30s and '40s pro teams passed a LOT more in the '50s.) So the idea MLBs aren't playmakers, should leave the field on passing downs, is both rather recent and displays, again, a poor grasp of the Mikes origins. The quote is basically saying, "Teams may be reconsidering the Mikes role; it's conceivably possible Mikes can do WHAT THEY WERE CREATED TO DO." No kidding...?



We aren't moving to a 34 and DJ has always been a WLB, .. but he did play MLB on year for us while we played a 43. He did "ok". .but it wasnt' his strong suite. Takes a different kind of LB, and different mentality, to play MLB. DJ looks for angles for tackles,a nd MLB is more about just filling holes and blasting through openings. So its not really more to his strong suite, but, it is something DJ has had a year of experience at. Not sure he would be better than Brooking, but he's younger and faster than Brooking.
He wasn't OK, he was subpar (and that's a generous assessment from someone who's always really liked him.) He was also a lot younger then though, and 4-3 Mikes must really know what they're doing. In fact, they usually must really know what EVERYONE is doing. Does DJ know the game and team better at 30 than he did at 25? Almost definitely.

[Ravage!!!]

Somebody is trying to be pompous. Odd considering that's never been their style in the past. :coffee:

[Chef Zambini]

Legwold reports DJ will move inside.....along with Brookings......in a 3-4 alignment......this is bad news for Doom who will lose playing time......thoughts?i dont hgive a rats as about whats good news or bad news for doom, I care about what is in the BEST INTEREST of our entire defense !
when doom is in, make plays! now when he ta\kes a play or a series off, he will be on the sidelines, not on the field.
WOODYAYARD has EARNED his time on the field!
maybe doom, dj and others should watch some woodyard film !

[Joel]

Somebody is trying to be pompous. Odd considering that's never been their style in the past. :coffee:
It's absurd to say, "Gee, maybe Mikes could do what they were designed for, possibly, in theory." Maybe ships could be used to cross oceans, too. Y'know, theoretically. :rolleyes:

[Chef Zambini]

I must preface my comments by saying I REALLY hope our coaches aren't stupid enough to fix what isn't broken: A defense that has improved each game since benching Mays in favor of Brooking, or even Irving, culminating in SHUTTIND DOWN one of the NFLs best offenses last week.

Yup, so that's a lot more sensible than making him an undersized 3-4 DE and Woodyard an undersized 3-4 OLB. Remember all the complaints DJ isn't a good tackler because, even though he is always quick to the ball and wraps up, he's so light he gets dragged downfield? DJ's listed at 13 lbs. HEAVIER than Woodyard, so what's likely to happen if Woodyard plays 3-4 OLB? Bearing in mind that the last time we went to a 3-4 DJ moved inside, where his excellent pass coverage was a greater asset and his smaller size less of a liability. Woodyard's playing at a safetys weight, but since, like safeties, 4-3 Wills are primarily concerned with pass coverage, which he plays well, he gets away with it. 3-4 OLBs are wholly different animals who must fight through blocks from T/TEs and run stop more on the outside since the DEs are working inside more than they do in a 4-3. That's why most 3-4 OLBs have 20-30 lbs. on Woodyard, and why he would get run over playing that position. Mays would be a better choice; he sucks in coverage, but most teams underutilize 3-4 OLBs in coverage, and Mays DOES know how to blow up a runner (if, of course, he manages to find one and not run past the tackle....)

A 3-4 makes some sense on paper (until/unless someone got hurt.) OLBs: Miller and Doom, backed by Mays. ILB: DJ and Woodyard/Brooking. DE: Wolfe, Bannan/Ayers. NT: Vickerson. The last would be our Achilles heel, because Vickerson's just not stout enough to be the immovable object over center that a 3-4 NT MUST be, and there is NO ONE to rotate with him/replace him when hurt. He's pleasntly surprised me since we lost Warren for the year, but he's not Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton. Even if he were, this isn't 1960; 3-4 NTs can't be expected to fight through constant double teams 80% of the game, still stuffing runs up the gut and pushing the inside of the pocket.

So, yeah, DJ at Mike might be logical since Mays is awful and Brooking isn't as fast as he used to be. Our Ds weak link was clearly Mays, as demonstrated by the fact simply removing him made it much better. It didn't matter whether Brooking replaced him or, when Brooking was hurt for a few plays against SD, Irving did: Our D is statistically and actually better as long as ANYONE but Mays is at Mike. That doesn't mean we should totally rebuild what's finally working pretty well, and even if we use a situational 3-4 package (hardly a radical idea) putting Woodyard at OLB and Doom at DE (or on the bench) sounds like an awful idea; it's just not a favorable matchup for us. If Woodyard belongs anywhere in a 3-4 LB corps (which is quite debatable) it's ILB, just as Doom belongs at 3-4 OLB, not 3-4 DE.all this is exaCTLY WHY WE HAVE jdr and film study. we have to0 rely on JDR to match our personnel to theirs, the down, distance and the opponents tendencies.
JDR has done a fine job making half time adjustments, so we can assume he is good at making those adjustments, we just need to see a better gameplan going in.
I think JDR now, after 7/8 games has a better understanding of his own players strengths and weaknesses and is utilizing their talents better.
he should work DJ in slowly, he must EARN his time on the field. as for Doom, if he needs to come out, i rely on JDR to make that determination !