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BaiLeY324
11-04-2007, 08:31 PM
There's less negativity now, while going through our worst season in over 5 years, than there was in these past couple of years when we were winning.

Haaaa.

broncosfanscott
11-04-2007, 09:12 PM
I can't really be too negative because of all the injuries that we have had this year. Cutler is still learning and I hope he is healthy to play next week.

LoyalSoldier
11-04-2007, 09:13 PM
Most likely because it is so bad that you can't really argue with it.

NameUsedBefore
11-04-2007, 10:14 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Lonestar
11-04-2007, 11:34 PM
There's less negativity now, while going through our worst season in over 5 years, than there was in these past couple of years when we were winning.

Haaaa.

only because if it is the truth and everyone knows it it is not a negative.

dandaman23
11-05-2007, 12:10 AM
Ya, because I dont think any of us are really expecting as much as we used to out of our Broncos.. Ya know, a couple years ago when we made it to the AFCCG we went 13-3 and had a great season..When we lost which wasnt very often we were more pissed off at the loss because we expected so much out of our team.. Now with all of our injuries and when we can hardly beat crappy teams, and were losing 41-3 to the Chargers, getting crushed by Detroit theres not really much you can expect so we kind of stop getting our hopes up because we know that were probably going to be let down.. Its a sucky feeling to have but it happens.. All we can really do is hope the Broncos can atleast play with some heart for the rest of the season.. I dont know if I can handle another blowout like this though when nobody on the team seems to be playing with heart..

Tned
11-05-2007, 01:25 AM
There's less negativity now, while going through our worst season in over 5 years, than there was in these past couple of years when we were winning.

Haaaa.

lower expectations?

BaiLeY324
11-05-2007, 01:35 AM
I thought I was the only one who wasn't really getting mad over the losses. I thought I was losing my love for the Broncos...

I guess it is because I don't really expect the team to win, so it's not as bad when we lose.

Ugh, I actually forget what it feels like to go on a winning streak. This sucks.

broncosfanscott
11-05-2007, 01:52 AM
I thought I was the only one who wasn't really getting mad over the losses. I thought I was losing my love for the Broncos...

I guess it is because I don't really expect the team to win, so it's not as bad when we lose.

Ugh, I actually forget what it feels like to go on a winning streak. This sucks.

I know, this is the first time in a long time that I am not really pissed when we lose. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the Broncos lose, yet right now I am not surprised. I just hope we can have no injuries the rest of the year and at least one convincing win.

Medford Bronco
11-05-2007, 12:09 PM
I know, this is the first time in a long time that I am not really pissed when we lose. Don't get me wrong, I hate it when the Broncos lose, yet right now I am not surprised. I just hope we can have no injuries the rest of the year and at least one convincing win.


Scott you are one smart man. I agree, I think there
is not much talent here and the losses are not as hurful

The 3 wins are all by a FG. the losses for the most part are us getting smoked really bad.

by 9, 18, 38, 6 and 37,

so its hard to get mad when the team is not good.

I still wish we could even be like last year and the AFC west would be ours
but this team is so much worse than last year it is not even funny :mad:

speardog
11-05-2007, 03:05 PM
Denver has such a young offense it's hard to expect much especially with all the injuries. The defense is pretty disappointing but they are very young on the DL too.

I see a bright future.... just not this year.

champbronc2
11-05-2007, 03:06 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5

It's pretty ugly over there guys.

Lonestar
11-05-2007, 03:25 PM
It's pretty ugly over there guys.
Just popped in to see . It is bad and the same guys pouting over there as before in some cases..

I have not been back there since I left I might need some time to heal my eyes..

NameUsedBefore
11-05-2007, 04:44 PM
Just popped in to see . It is bad and the same guys pouting over there as before in some cases..

I have not been back there since I left I might need some time to heal my eyes..

I actually don't go back there at all because it's such an eye sore.

broncosfanscott
11-06-2007, 03:03 AM
Scott you are one smart man. I agree, I think there
is not much talent here and the losses are not as hurful

The 3 wins are all by a FG. the losses for the most part are us getting smoked really bad.

by 9, 18, 38, 6 and 37,

so its hard to get mad when the team is not good.

I still wish we could even be like last year and the AFC west would be ours
but this team is so much worse than last year it is not even funny :mad:

I know, that bug me too. Our division is a joke and it's too bad we can't take advantage of it. The way things are going, the division winner will only need 9 wins......and that is sad.

Mike
11-06-2007, 10:08 AM
It's on every Bronco board. The "Fire Shanahan" fanatics are running wild.

"Wade Phillips is the one who really built our Super bowl teams!"

"Fire Shanahan. Bring in Jason Garrett!"

Ugh.

There have been a few of them over the past few years and they are gaining momentum. A few years ago I laughed at them...I am not laughing so much anymore. They have legs to stand on.

I know that a lot of people are satisfied with winning records and many Shanahan supporters make the argument that the Broncos have consistently been competitive under Shanahan. That is a good point. But the question that I keep asking myself is am I happy with mediocrity? That is what I see when I look back over the last 4-5 years. What is the real difference between us and, say, KC (since we all like to take pot shots at the mullets :D)? Look at the records over the last few years. That is when it stopped being funny to me.

Shanahan has always managed to sell me on the "we are just a player or two away" bit. But we have yet to find that mythical player(s). In the meantime he has sold out the Broncos future to get that mythical player(s). Constant cap problems, constant draft failures, free-agent failures, hiring/promoting assistants based on the good-ol-boy system instead of by merit. This has to fall squarely on Mike Shanahan. Certainly, Shanahan shouldn't shoulder all of the blame...Sunquist and other people involved with player personnel decisions should take heat. But ultimately Shanahan is the one who in command and has to take responsibility for the performance of his subordinates.

I do not think that Shanahan should go. I think that he is still one of the top 5 coaches in the league. I would absolutely dread seeing him go to SD or KC...or any other AFC opponent for that matter. But I believe that he has to be held accountable for the situation the Broncos are in. Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that the team has to find a new philosophy. The one player away philosophy has to be scrapped. The hiring of coaches/assistants by the good-ol-boy system has got to be scrapped. I would also love to see Shanahan lose his carte blanche. Let Mike concentrate on being the great coach that we know he is and bring in a real player and personnel guru.

topscribe
11-06-2007, 10:19 AM
There's less negativity now, while going through our worst season in over 5 years, than there was in these past couple of years when we were winning.

Haaaa.

Yes, and as a Mod I thank you all! :beer:

Let's all meet over at Kap's cafe. Breakfast is on me! :woot:

-----

Lonestar
11-06-2007, 10:36 AM
It's on every Bronco board. The "Fire Shanahan" fanatics are running wild.

"Wade Phillips is the one who really built our Super bowl teams!"

"Fire Shanahan. Bring in Jason Garrett!"

Ugh.

they just might be correct

Lonestar
11-06-2007, 10:48 AM
There have been a few of them over the past few years and they are gaining momentum. A few years ago I laughed at them...I am not laughing so much anymore. They have legs to stand on.

I know that a lot of people are satisfied with winning records and many Shanahan supporters make the argument that the Broncos have consistently been competitive under Shanahan. That is a good point. But the question that I keep asking myself is am I happy with mediocrity? That is what I see when I look back over the last 4-5 years. What is the real difference between us and, say, KC (since we all like to take pot shots at the mullets :D)? Look at the records over the last few years. That is when it stopped being funny to me.

Shanahan has always managed to sell me on the "we are just a player or two away" bit. But we have yet to find that mythical player(s). In the meantime he has sold out the Broncos future to get that mythical player(s). Constant cap problems, constant draft failures, free-agent failures, hiring/promoting assistants based on the good-ol-boy system instead of by merit. This has to fall squarely on Mike Shanahan. Certainly, Shanahan shouldn't shoulder all of the blame...Sunquist and other people involved with player personnel decisions should take heat. But ultimately Shanahan is the one who in command and has to take responsibility for the performance of his subordinates.

I do not think that Shanahan should go. I think that he is still one of the top 5 coaches in the league. I would absolutely dread seeing him go to SD or KC...or any other AFC opponent for that matter. But I believe that he has to be held accountable for the situation the Broncos are in. Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that the team has to find a new philosophy. The one player away philosophy has to be scrapped. The hiring of coaches/assistants by the good-ol-boy system has got to be scrapped. I would also love to see Shanahan lose his carte blanche. Let Mike concentrate on being the great coach that we know he is and bring in a real player and personnel guru.


Outstanding post I've been advocating this for years since I began to see through the just a player a way routine 2-3 years ago.
I've taken a lot of heat for saying it.
3
Here is what I think should happen even though he finally picked up an assistant coach in Bates that knows something and established himself outside of DEN. Most of his coaches are yes men for that matter all of his staff save perhaps the Greek..

We need to get a real GM that will get a truly professional scouting depart met in here and "help" mikey to make personnel decisions. If mikey does not agree to it and right now his jo jo is awfully weak let him walk it is his decision he will not be fired. He will make a conscious decision to walk away from a contract for life .. He has more money than God he really does not need to work any more unless he wants to.

Even if he were to go some where else it would just be more of the same good mediocrity unless he finds another John and TD together it is not going to happen. Let him go and be mikey somewhere else..

topscribe
11-06-2007, 11:25 AM
There have been a few of them over the past few years and they are gaining momentum. A few years ago I laughed at them...I am not laughing so much anymore. They have legs to stand on.

I know that a lot of people are satisfied with winning records and many Shanahan supporters make the argument that the Broncos have consistently been competitive under Shanahan. That is a good point. But the question that I keep asking myself is am I happy with mediocrity? That is what I see when I look back over the last 4-5 years. What is the real difference between us and, say, KC (since we all like to take pot shots at the mullets :D)? Look at the records over the last few years. That is when it stopped being funny to me.

Shanahan has always managed to sell me on the "we are just a player or two away" bit. But we have yet to find that mythical player(s). In the meantime he has sold out the Broncos future to get that mythical player(s). Constant cap problems, constant draft failures, free-agent failures, hiring/promoting assistants based on the good-ol-boy system instead of by merit. This has to fall squarely on Mike Shanahan. Certainly, Shanahan shouldn't shoulder all of the blame...Sunquist and other people involved with player personnel decisions should take heat. But ultimately Shanahan is the one who in command and has to take responsibility for the performance of his subordinates.

I do not think that Shanahan should go. I think that he is still one of the top 5 coaches in the league. I would absolutely dread seeing him go to SD or KC...or any other AFC opponent for that matter. But I believe that he has to be held accountable for the situation the Broncos are in. Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that the team has to find a new philosophy. The one player away philosophy has to be scrapped. The hiring of coaches/assistants by the good-ol-boy system has got to be scrapped. I would also love to see Shanahan lose his carte blanche. Let Mike concentrate on being the great coach that we know he is and bring in a real player and personnel guru.

Generally a well thought out analysis. However, I don't believe Shanny has
"sold out" the Broncos' future. They have a whole bunch of very young
players out there, who are playing like young players, but who are loaded
with talent. When you consider Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Crowder,
Cutler, Scheffler, and Pears . . . along with even veterans who are playing
positions new to them, in schemes new to them . . . you are going to have
players being overwhelmed at times.

Look at the two teams they just played: Green Bay and Detroit. Were they
considered good last year? They were young and learning new schemes,
that's what they were.

Regarding all the wheeling and dealing, the so-called "failures" in FA and the
draft, examples have been charted several times, showing that all teams
go through that with their personnel. It's called the Cap and free agency.
Actually, to cite the draft isn't fair, considering the talent the Broncos have
picked up the last three years or so. A few have gone down the road, yes,
but that is the case with every team in every draft. But when you consider
D.J., D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Scheffler, Marshall,
Dumervil, Myers, Kuper, and of course Cutler, they have made some hauls.

In FA and trades, they have landed Stokley, Walker, Graham, Henry (if he
gets his act together and is not suspended), Young, Hall, Holland, Sauerbrun,
Ekuban, Adams, Webster, Abdullah, Bailey, Lynch, Bly, and others who are
contributing.

I don't believe the sky is falling for the Broncos. I do believe that, yes, they
have some glaring holes to fill, such as the depth at DT and at LB, but they
still have the nucleus of a very good team.

I was reading today where Cower had more severe and numerous ups and
downs than Shanny has had, and finished out in a blaze of glory with a
15-1 Super Bowl champion.

One more thing: Were Shanny replaced, with whom would the Broncos
replace him? The prospect of going through a decade of coaches to replace
him is far more scary to me than keeping him around. I've been that route,
and I don't mean back in the '90s. I mean I went from age 15 to age 29
through a series of coaches before we had one who brought is a winnig
season.

I don't want to do that again. :coffee:

-----

Medford Bronco
11-06-2007, 11:54 AM
There have been a few of them over the past few years and they are gaining momentum. A few years ago I laughed at them...I am not laughing so much anymore. They have legs to stand on.

I know that a lot of people are satisfied with winning records and many Shanahan supporters make the argument that the Broncos have consistently been competitive under Shanahan. That is a good point. But the question that I keep asking myself is am I happy with mediocrity? That is what I see when I look back over the last 4-5 years. What is the real difference between us and, say, KC (since we all like to take pot shots at the mullets :D)? Look at the records over the last few years. That is when it stopped being funny to me.

Shanahan has always managed to sell me on the "we are just a player or two away" bit. But we have yet to find that mythical player(s). In the meantime he has sold out the Broncos future to get that mythical player(s). Constant cap problems, constant draft failures, free-agent failures, hiring/promoting assistants based on the good-ol-boy system instead of by merit. This has to fall squarely on Mike Shanahan. Certainly, Shanahan shouldn't shoulder all of the blame...Sunquist and other people involved with player personnel decisions should take heat. But ultimately Shanahan is the one who in command and has to take responsibility for the performance of his subordinates.

I do not think that Shanahan should go. I think that he is still one of the top 5 coaches in the league. I would absolutely dread seeing him go to SD or KC...or any other AFC opponent for that matter. But I believe that he has to be held accountable for the situation the Broncos are in. Bowlen needs to step in and tell Shanahan that the team has to find a new philosophy. The one player away philosophy has to be scrapped. The hiring of coaches/assistants by the good-ol-boy system has got to be scrapped. I would also love to see Shanahan lose his carte blanche. Let Mike concentrate on being the great coach that we know he is and bring in a real player and personnel guru.

great post LDB,.....I agree with you wholhearedly. :salute:

Mike
11-06-2007, 11:58 AM
Generally a well thought out analysis. However, I don't believe Shanny has
"sold out" the Broncos' future. They have a whole bunch of very young
players out there, who are playing like young players, but who are loaded
with talent. When you consider Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Crowder,
Cutler, Scheffler, and Pears . . . along with even veterans who are playing
positions new to them, in schemes new to them . . . you are going to have
players being overwhelmed at times.

Yes, they have several young players with potential. I admit Shanahan has done a solid job the last two years drafting.


Regarding all the wheeling and dealing, the so-called "failures" in FA and the
draft, examples have been charted several times, showing that all teams
go through that with their personnel. It's called the Cap and free agency.
Actually, to cite the draft isn't fair, considering the talent the Broncos have
picked up the last three years or so. A few have gone down the road, yes,
but that is the case with every team in every draft. But when you consider
D.J., D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Scheffler, Marshall,
Dumervil, Myers, Kuper, and of course Cutler, they have made some hauls.

DJ up to this point is a bust. D-Will (with all respect to his memory) was a bust...his unfortunate death makes people think fonder of him than they did when he played. Foxy has potential, but so far this season has looked very shaky. Paymah, I haven't seen much in.

Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Kuper have potential...too early to tell.

Scheffler, Marshall, Dumervil, and Cutler look to be solid keepers.

The rest...eh.


In FA and trades, they have landed Stokley, Walker, Graham, Henry (if he
gets his act together and is not suspended), Young, Hall, Holland, Sauerbrun,
Ekuban, Adams, Webster, Abdullah, Bailey, Lynch, Bly, and others who are
contributing.

Bailey was a gem. Stokely was a very good deal. Walker was a solid deal...injuries suck. Young and Hall have potential.

Graham was a bad deal. Too much money for a one-dimensional player. We should have overpaid for a d-lineman.

Henry to this point has to be viewed as a flop. Not only is his substance abuse a distraction, he has shown what others recognized as a problem...injury prone. I have seen nothing impressive out of him that warrents the guaranteed money we spent on him.

Webster is a back-up at best...not a starter.
Adams is trash.
Abdullah...potential.
Bly was a good trade...but the big contract before seeing on the field production makes it questionable. A LOT of money for a #2 CB.

But what about the other deals that have screwed the team. Griese and his contract? Plummer and his contract extension? Even his willingness to sign players with known character problems. IHOP? Dale Carter? MO?

Shanahan has made some moves that are gems (Bailey/Cutler). But for every good move there are the really bad moves.


I don't believe the sky is falling for the Broncos. I do believe that, yes, they
have some glaring holes to fill, such as the depth at DT and at LB, but they
still have the nucleus of a very good team.

This is what I am talking about. His "one-player away" philoshophy has put Denver in the position that they are in. He blatantly disregarded positions of need in order to search for that mythical player. He has also gotten impatient and has sacrificed draft picks and offered huge contracts that will hurt the team in the future. A corporation must always act for today but must balance it out by thinking for the future. Shanahan hasn't been thinking for the future. We are seeing the initial problems of this philosophy...I fear that it will get worse in the next couple of years.

They have a nucleus of superstar position players...QB...WR...CB. But Denver is in the same position today that have been in for the past several years. That nucleus will not help the Broncos succeed without a solid o-line or d-line. Granted, he helped the team by drafting for the d-line last year. But now the o-line is in shambles. At best it is a question mark as is.


I was reading today where Cower had more severe and numerous ups and
downs than Shanny has had, and finished out in a blaze of glory with a
15-1 Super Bowl champion.

Parrallels aside, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. This is a very thin argument.


One more thing: Were Shanny replaced, with whom would the Broncos
replace him? The prospect of going through a decade of coaches to replace
him is far more scary to me than keeping him around. I've been that route,
and I don't mean back in the '90s. I mean I went from age 15 to age 29
through a series of coaches before we had one who brought is a winnig
season.

I don't want to do that again. :coffee:

-----

This is an argument that is thrown around a lot. As I said, I do not think Shanahan should go. I think adjustments need to be made regarding the assistant coaches and personnel decision situation.

That said, being afraid to move ahead just because we don't know what the future might bring is not acceptable to me. Keep Shanahan because he is still a great coach and will win Championships, not because we are afraid of moving on without him. I am not satisfied with mediocrity and will not use fear of struggling as justification for not making changes.

Medford Bronco
11-06-2007, 12:01 PM
players out there, who are playing like young players, but who are loaded
with talent. When you consider Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Crowder,
Cutler, Scheffler, and Pears . . . along with even veterans who are playing
positions new to them, in schemes new to them . . . you are going to have
players being overwhelmed at times.


Regarding all the wheeling and dealing, the so-called "failures" in FA and the
draft, examples have been charted several times, showing that all teams
go through that with their personnel. It's called the Cap and free agency.
Actually, to cite the draft isn't fair, considering the talent the Broncos have
picked up the last three years or so. A few have gone down the road, yes,
but that is the case with every team in every draft. But when you consider
D.J., D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Scheffler, Marshall,
Dumervil, Myers, Kuper, and of course Cutler, they have made some hauls.

In FA and trades, they have landed Stokley, Walker, Graham, Henry (if he
gets his act together and is not suspended), Young, Hall, Holland, Sauerbrun,
Ekuban, Adams, Webster, Abdullah, Bailey, Lynch, Bly, and others who are
contributing.

I don't believe the sky is falling for the Broncos. I do believe that, yes, they
have some glaring holes to fill, such as the depth at DT and at LB, but they
still have the nucleus of a very good team.

I was reading today where Cower had more severe and numerous ups and
downs than Shanny has had, and finished out in a blaze of glory with a
15-1 Super Bowl champion.

One more thing: Were Shanny replaced, with whom would the Broncos
replace him? The prospect of going through a decade of coaches to replace
him is far more scary to me than keeping him around. I've been that route,
and I don't mean back in the '90s. I mean I went from age 15 to age 29
through a series of coaches before we had one who brought is a winnig
season.

I don't want to do that again. :coffee:

-----

I think the talent on this team is average at best

there is very little talent on defense outside of Champ Bailey.

I think Dre Bly is not good at all......The safeties are mediocre
Lynchs best days are behind him and Ferguson is average at best.

The LBs suck and are continually out of postion and miss Al Wilson greatly
I can not stress that enough.

the defensive line is undersized and putrid, including the big name draft guys who cant stop the ru.n.. they can be complimentary if the interior of the line was not always 5 yards back on every running play for the most part.

the offense is a bit better but the line is in flux...I am not sold on any of these young guys as they are getting manhandled week after week.
they miss Nalen and Hamilton so much it is not even funny..

I think Cutler will be good but he needs the line to improve drastically and please get rid of the zone block scheme. it not working. Defenses are so much faster now than they were 10 years ago.. you can incorporate some of it at times. but this line needs to be more tradtional if you want Cutler to actally have time to try to read a defense and not run for his life on most pass plays against a good defene.

just my ramble. this team needs MAJOR changes if it ever wants to even sniff what NE and Indy are right now... I think we might be somewhat better next year, but its a long way off IMO

omac
11-06-2007, 12:19 PM
Generally a well thought out analysis. However, I don't believe Shanny has
"sold out" the Broncos' future. They have a whole bunch of very young
players out there, who are playing like young players, but who are loaded
with talent. When you consider Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Crowder,
Cutler, Scheffler, and Pears . . . along with even veterans who are playing
positions new to them, in schemes new to them . . . you are going to have
players being overwhelmed at times.

Look at the two teams they just played: Green Bay and Detroit. Were they
considered good last year? They were young and learning new schemes,
that's what they were.

Regarding all the wheeling and dealing, the so-called "failures" in FA and the
draft, examples have been charted several times, showing that all teams
go through that with their personnel. It's called the Cap and free agency.
Actually, to cite the draft isn't fair, considering the talent the Broncos have
picked up the last three years or so. A few have gone down the road, yes,
but that is the case with every team in every draft. But when you consider
D.J., D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Scheffler, Marshall,
Dumervil, Myers, Kuper, and of course Cutler, they have made some hauls.

In FA and trades, they have landed Stokley, Walker, Graham, Henry (if he
gets his act together and is not suspended), Young, Hall, Holland, Sauerbrun,
Ekuban, Adams, Webster, Abdullah, Bailey, Lynch, Bly, and others who are
contributing.

I don't believe the sky is falling for the Broncos. I do believe that, yes, they
have some glaring holes to fill, such as the depth at DT and at LB, but they
still have the nucleus of a very good team.

I was reading today where Cower had more severe and numerous ups and
downs than Shanny has had, and finished out in a blaze of glory with a
15-1 Super Bowl champion.

One more thing: Were Shanny replaced, with whom would the Broncos
replace him? The prospect of going through a decade of coaches to replace
him is far more scary to me than keeping him around. I've been that route,
and I don't mean back in the '90s. I mean I went from age 15 to age 29
through a series of coaches before we had one who brought is a winnig
season.

I don't want to do that again. :coffee:

-----

Great post, topscribe. :salute:

Like any team, the Broncos have had some good draft picks and some bad ones. These last few years, though, have produced some quality players that are playing major roles on this team.

I don't see many coaches that are better at running a team than Mikey. Almost all also have their strengths and weaknesses. Mikey can outcoach most of them, even with tough matchups.

topscribe
11-06-2007, 12:46 PM
Yes, they have several young players with potential. I admit Shanahan has done a solid job the last two years drafting.



DJ up to this point is a bust. D-Will (with all respect to his memory) was a bust...his unfortunate death makes people think fonder of him than they did when he played. Foxy has potential, but so far this season has looked very shaky. Paymah, I haven't seen much in.

Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Kuper have potential...too early to tell.

Scheffler, Marshall, Dumervil, and Cutler look to be solid keepers.

The rest...eh.

Your opinion, my opinion. That's what we have here. We'll see. :smile:


Bailey was a gem. Stokely was a very good deal. Walker was a solid deal...injuries suck. Young and Hall have potential.

Graham was a bad deal. Too much money for a one-dimensional player. We should have overpaid for a d-lineman.

Henry to this point has to be viewed as a flop. Not only is his substance abuse a distraction, he has shown what others recognized as a problem...injury prone. I have seen nothing impressive out of him that warrents the guaranteed money we spent on him.

Webster is a back-up at best...not a starter.
Adams is trash.
Abdullah...potential.
Bly was a good trade...but the big contract before seeing on the field production makes it questionable. A LOT of money for a #2 CB.Okay, Webser is a backup. He also is cheap. The Broncos need backups,
too, which makes Webster a good deal. Adams may be past his prime, but
"trash" is a bit extreme, IMO. I already qualified my comment on Henry.
Agreed on signing a DL instead of Graham. I would like to have seen that
kind of money go for, say, Abraham. But Graham is a devastating blocker,
although, again, I agree he is overpriced.


But what about the other deals that have screwed the team. Griese and his contract? Plummer and his contract extension? Even his willingness to sign players with known character problems. IHOP? Dale Carter? MO?Plummer's contract extension followed some sterling play on his part. He
nearly set the record for number of passes without an interception and
quarterbacked the team to three straight playoff years. Griese had a Pro
Bowl year and was considered the best QB of his class by some football
pundits for a while. I don't think we can fault Shanny for granting contracts
anyone else would have done under those circumstances. How could anyone
have forecast the disintegration of either QB?

Isn't Carter ancient history by now? You say what about Carter, I say what
about Bailey, Bly, Abdullah, Lynch. You think the Broncos should have
dismissed the thoughts of Thomas, Moss?--They had issues.


Shanahan has made some moves that are gems (Bailey/Cutler). But for every good move there are the really bad moves.You made my argument for me here. For every really bad move, there are
some gems. What you are describing is a common phenomenon among
teams in the league.


Shanahan hasn't been thinking for the future.Oh? is that why there is so much youth on the squad? :confused:


They have a nucleus of superstar position players...QB...WR...CB. But Denver is in the same position today that have been in for the past several years. That nucleus will not help the Broncos succeed without a solid o-line or d-line. Granted, he helped the team by drafting for the d-line last year. But now the o-line is in shambles. At best it is a question mark as is.Well, of course the OL is having problems. Are the injuries to Nalen,
Hamilton, and Lepsis Shanny's fault? There are only five playes on the OL,
and that is three of them. Now, they have three (out of five) inexperienced
players with talent (well, we'll see about Pears). Lepsis is still not 100%.
(I don't like Holland, though.) Youth, experience, chemistry . . . it is a very
simple explanation why the OL is going through problems.

The DL, I have to largely agree on. "Trash" Adams cannot do it alone, and
he is, admittedly, past his prime. Thomas is still learning a very difficult
position under a new scheme, one he has never played, even in college,
which, BTW, he was out of for a year. But he is the one quality player at
DT. They need to do something dramatic at DT, and yesterday. DE is
stocked, IMO, with Moss, Crowder, Dumervil, Ekuban, Engelberger (for
depth), and maybe Rice, if he can recover some of his old stuff (but the
players are there even if he doesn't).


Parrallels aside, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. This is a very thin argument.That was not an argument. That was an example. One example. I can come
up with a bevy of them, but I am sure you are not deficient in historical
knowledge, are you?


I am not satisfied with mediocrity and will not use fear of struggling as justification for not making changes.Agreed, whole-heartedly. That is what Shanny has been doing. Sometimes
the present suffers so the future can prosper. I believe that is happening
right now. I may be wrong, but I think this is developing into a scary team,
IF they plug some holes at DT and LB.


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Medford Bronco
11-06-2007, 12:48 PM
Agreed, whole-heartedly. That is what Shanny has been doing. Sometimes
the present suffers so the future can prosper. I believe that is happening
right now. I may be wrong, but I think this is developing into a scary team,
IF they plug some holes at DT and LB.


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Please do not foget offensive line. If Cutler is running for his life
he cant make the plays wel all think he is capable of.

topscribe
11-06-2007, 01:00 PM
I think the talent on this team is average at best

there is very little talent on defense outside of Champ Bailey.

I think Dre Bly is not good at all......The safeties are mediocre
Lynchs best days are behind him and Ferguson is average at best.

Walker, Scheffler, Marshall, Stokley, Henry (hope he sticks around), Elam,
Sauerbrun, Nalen, Lepsis, Graham, Thomas, Moss, Dumervil, Crowder, Bly
(two-time Pro Bowler), Lynch (eight-time Pro Bowler).

Sorry, have to disagree with you.


The LBs suck and are continually out of postion and miss Al Wilson greatly
I can not stress that enough.Have to agree here, although I believe D.J. is very good and is getting
better at a position he has never played in a scheme in which he has
never played. Would like to see Gold gone and D.J. at WLB with a decent
MLB, though. Webster is find at SLB, IF the rest of the corps was solid.


the defensive line is undersized and putrid, including the big name draft guys who cant stop the ru.n.. they can be complimentary if the interior of the line was not always 5 yards back on every running play for the most part.Undersized? Adams, 350; Burton 325; Gordon 328; Thomas 314. No, not
undersized. Just bad, that's all. Adams is over the hill, and Gordon and
Burton never made it to the hill. We have Thomas: That's it. We need help.


the offense is a bit better but the line is in flux...I am not sold on any of these young guys as they are getting manhandled week after week.
they miss Nalen and Hamilton so much it is not even funny..That's the nature of being young. You get manhandled for a while. Especially
when you don't have veterans next to you to help you out. Holland can't
even help himself out, and Lepsis is not 100%, obviously. Yes, they do
miss Nalen and Hamilton terribly.


You are dead on in some areas, while I obviously disagree with you in others.
However, you may be right and I wrong in them, too. We'll see.

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topscribe
11-06-2007, 01:02 PM
Please do not foget offensive line. If Cutler is running for his life
he cant make the plays wel all think he is capable of.

They are young, that's all, and without veteran help. As Med expressed, they
miss Nalen and Hamilton badly. But I think the OL will be okay. They will jell
and develop.

But the DL . . . :ahhhhh:

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BANJOPICKER1
11-06-2007, 01:08 PM
The thing that bothers me is waiting another year for our team to be better..I am 47,almost 48 and wont live forever and I want to see another Superbowl win in my life...Waiting stinks..LOL:D

I am too old for this chit!!:listen: