How bout that Hillman kid??

[smith49]

I know the entire team played well today, so I thought I'd start a thread on a player that we are just getting introduced to.

Not a lot of touches for Hillman, but I saw some nice moves in open field, and some good reads on when to release out of the backfield.

Like I said, not a ton to go on, but I thought the kid looked solid.

[BroncoWave]

Definitely had a good game. He has pretty much sealed his spot over Moreno on the depth chart. Barring a RB injury Moreno is likely done in Denver.

[BroncoNut]

thanks for this thread. I liked what I saw. speed demon

[smith49]

Definitely had a good game. He has pretty much sealed his spot over Moreno on the depth chart. Barring a RB injury Moreno is likely done in Denver.

Yah. I think your right about that BTB.

[smith49]

thanks for this thread. I liked what I saw. speed demon

NP nut. Every few years I have a good observation. Even if its obvious to most.


But yah, that kid can fly.

[threefolddead]

Fun to watch. But you know what this kids greatest asset is. HES NOT MORENO. My lord if I had to watch that idiot run another ball I'd poke my eyesballs out. Hillman looked like a stud. You can tell he has been learning from Willis too. Love it. Moreno needs to be selling cell phones at the mall. He MIGHT be good at that.

[FanInAZ]

Definitely had a good game. He has pretty much sealed his spot over Moreno on the depth chart. Barring a RB injury Moreno is likely done in Denver.

Good, I was done with Moreno after week 1 of last year.

[MOtorboat]

I thought Simms' comment about Hillman "getting a little confidence now" was fitting.

He seemed tentative at first, but when he got into the open a few times, he got some yards, and then he had some runs between the tackles, too.

He's small. I know people want to compare him to MJD and Ray Rice, but he's not built like those guys, he's more like Sproles.

[BroncoWave]

I thought Simms' comment about Hillman "getting a little confidence now" was fitting.

He seemed tentative at first, but when he got into the open a few times, he got some yards, and then he had some runs between the tackles, too.

He's small. I know people want to compare him to MJD and Ray Rice, but he's not built like those guys, he's more like Sproles.

I think pretty much everyone compares him to Sproles.

BTW, when I worked for the Saints I stood next to Sproles once and he is the smallest football player I have ever seen. I thought he was a towel boy or something when I first saw him because he wasn't in uniform.

[MOtorboat]

I think pretty much everyone compares him to Sproles.

BTW, when I worked for the Saints I stood next to Sproles once and he is the smallest football player I have ever seen. I thought he was a towel boy or something when I first saw him because he wasn't in uniform.

I saw a lot of people comparing him to MJD and Rice...either way...

I don't think he'll ever be more than a change of pace back, which is fine, as long as you have a pounder like McGahee.

[smith49]

Fun to watch. But you know what this kids greatest asset is. HES NOT MORENO. My lord if I had to watch that idiot run another ball I'd poke my eyesballs out. Hillman looked like a stud. You can tell he has been learning from Willis too. Love it. Moreno needs to be selling cell phones at the mall. He MIGHT be good at that.


Is it funny that I'm responding to every post in my thread?? I guess that's what watching this eagles v giants game will do to a man.

Yah, not sure I agree with you on this three. I'm pretty sure Hillman has many greater assets than the fact that he's not Moreno. Just sayin.

[BroncoWave]

I saw a lot of people comparing him to MJD and Rice...either way...

I don't think he'll ever be more than a change of pace back, which is fine, as long as you have a pounder like McGahee.

As a 3rd rounder if he can have a Sproles-like career as a change of pace guy it will be well worth the pick.

[MOtorboat]

As a 3rd rounder if he can have a Sproles-like career as a change of pace guy it will be well worth the pick.

I don't really care about where he was picked.

[BroncoWave]

I don't really care about where he was picked.

When analyzing players I agree. But when analyzing the draft pick from the team's side, that's what I'm referring to.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I would like to see Hillman, or someone like him, return punts - seems we are lacking there.

[underrated29]

He's nothing like sproles but if he can play like him that will be awesome!

He reminds me more of a slower cj1k or Reggie bush or jerious Norwood.

[silkamilkamonico]

I would like to see Hillman, or someone like him, return punts - seems we are lacking there.

Yea not real sure why leonard is. Must strictly be a secure blanket for the staff knowing he will secure it.

[Simple Jaded]

I saw a lot of people comparing him to MJD and Rice...either way...

I don't think he'll ever be more than a change of pace back, which is fine, as long as you have a pounder like McGahee.
I heard this comparison, LeSean McCoy too.

This is typical of football fans, they look at a player and instantly compare him to the best in the league. Eddie Royal was gonna be Lee Evans, Devin Hester and Steve Smith all rolled into one neat little package.......

[MOtorboat]

I heard this comparison, LeSean McCoy too.

This is typical of football fans, they look at a player and instantly compare him to the best in the league. Eddie Royal was gonna be Lee Evans and Steve Smith all rolled into one neat little package.......

I'm not saying comparisons are wrong, or unwarranted. I'm saying he compares more to a Sproles, Glyn Milburn, Dave Meggett guy than an MJD, Ray Rice, Curtis Martin type.

It's always easy for the mind to equate what they see with something they've seen before.

[smith49]

He's nothing like sproles but if he can play like him that will be awesome!

He reminds me more of a slower cj1k or Reggie bush or jerious Norwood.


I'm not really sure who he's like, I just liked what I saw when he got the ball in the open. The play he caught about a five yard pass in the middle and broke it outside with speed and a sweet juke got me pretty excited.

I know, small sample size, but I'm just saying I liked what I saw from him.

[underrated29]

Funny you say that because I had Eddie as lee Evans and Wes welker package. I am interested to see how he does now that he has a real qb again.


Btw the only rice comparison I heard was for dougie martin

[underrated29]

I'm not really sure who he's like, I just liked what I saw when he got the ball in the open. The play he caught about a five yard pass in the middle and broke it outside with speed and a sweet juke got me pretty excited.

I know, small sample size, but I'm just saying I liked what I saw from him.



Oh yeah. Something we have sorely missed since ....forever. Speed!

[Simple Jaded]

Funny you say that because I had Eddie as lee Evans and Wes welker package. I am interested to see how he does now that he has a real qb again.


Btw the only rice comparison I heard was for dougie martin

He had a TD today, not sure what he did on PR's.......

[smith49]

I'm not really sure who he's like, I just liked what I saw when he got the ball in the open. The play he caught about a five yard pass in the middle and broke it outside with speed and a sweet juke got me pretty excited.

I know, small sample size, but I'm just saying I liked what I saw from him.



Oh yeah. Something we have sorely missed since ....forever. Speed!

And lots if it. How about the play when Peyton handed him the ball and he ran right. When the defender looked like he was in position to stop him for a loss? Instead of stutter stepping, or reversing field, he just turned on the after burners and made it to the edge for a small but significant gain. That took some serious wheels to pull off.

[Simple Jaded]

Didn't Lamme compare him to Rice? I pretty sure he dropped McCoy's name.......

[underrated29]

Eh it's a start for him

[Dzone]

Hillman looked good and he didnt pull up lame like the guy he replaced.
I do feel a little sorry for Morenos failed career, but I stop feeling sorry for him when I see his Bentley with "Sauced" license plates that he drove drunk in. He disgraced the shield LOL

[Jsteve01]

I heard this comparison, LeSean McCoy too.

This is typical of football fans, they look at a player and instantly compare him to the best in the league. Eddie Royal was gonna be Lee Evans and Steve Smith all rolled into one neat little package.......

I'm not saying comparisons are wrong, or unwarranted. I'm saying he compares more to a Sproles, Glyn Milburn, Dave Meggett guy than an MJD, Ray Rice, Curtis Martin type.

It's always easy for the mind to equate what they see with something they've seen before. I don't know that I can pigeon hole him at this point. He's too young and he actually looks good between the tackles. I gained over 30 lbs of good weight after I turned 21. He could end up at 210 or 215.

[tomjonesrocks]

I still don't see Sproles'-like speed -- but certainly appreciate Moreno on the bench.

Still hoped he'd look more like Jamaal Charles when he burst on the scene or Clinton Portis when he was a Bronco based on blistering speed reports. Doesn't look as shifty or as fast as McCoy either.

Just not seeing that kind of ability so far. Doesn't take much to impress vs Moreno though.

[Rick]

At the moment I am just hoping he is good enough to be a guy that can spell Willis without us going to 2 yards per carry or less averages.

If he proves to do that then i will start hoping for more, but right now unless it is him it appears to be no one that can truly come in and spell Willis.

[Northman]

I don't know that I can pigeon hole him at this point. He's too young and he actually looks good between the tackles.

Unlike someone else.

[TXBRONC]

Unlike someone else.

:nod:

[Ravage!!!]

I have always seen him as a sproles type of back.. and still do. He has the speed of Sproles, and it appears (without actually comparing hight/weight) to be the smaller/quicker back that is your typical complimentary,..out of the backfield...change of pace type of back. Never saw him to ever...EVEr..be a "work horse" kind of back or a Jamal Charles. At all.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Not trying to be Negative Ned here, but I'd hold off the coronation. Hillman had 10 carries for 31 yds (3.1 ypc) and he needed a 12 yard scamper on a busted defense by Oakland to get the average that high. He also had 2 receptions for 32 yds with 29 of them coming on that one big catch and run. He looked - um, okay. I think folks are getting carried away and trying desperately to find positives for Hillman because Moreno and Ball are so bad and because the team played so well yesterday.

His numbers were actually extremely pedestrian yesterday.

[Ravage!!!]

Not trying to be Negative Ned here, but I'd hold off the coronation. Hillman had 10 carries for 31 yds (3.1 ypc) and he needed a 12 yard scamper to get the average that high. He also had 2 receptions for 32 yds with 29 of them coming on that one big catch and run. He looked - um, okay. I think folks are getting carried away and trying desperately to find positives for Hillman because Moreno and ball are so bad and because the team played so well yesterday.

His numbers were actually extremely pedestrian yesterday.

Which is why I don't base my opinion on stat sheets and numbers from a screen. I'm judging based on what I saw on the field. He had a very limited number of plays, and when in there, looked for the open hole...exploded through the open space... actually MADE plays when nothing was in front of him instead of just dancing or running into the back of his lineman.

Numbers REALLY REAALLY never tell the story when watching football. Which is why all the arguments for Moreno and his "4ypc"..dn't mean squat.

[hotcarl]

that kid can flat play

...the clarinet

*whistles big bad bill is sweeeeet william now... into the fog*

[slim]

He looks kind of slow for a speed back.

[BroncoNut]

I thought Simms' comment about Hillman "getting a little confidence now" was fitting.

He seemed tentative at first, but when he got into the open a few times, he got some yards, and then he had some runs between the tackles, too.

He's small. I know people want to compare him to MJD and Ray Rice, but he's not built like those guys, he's more like Sproles.

He has reminded me alot of sproles. I don't know if anyone else (besides you and me) has that same observation

[rationalfan]

Hillman looked good and he didnt pull up lame like the guy he replaced.
I do feel a little sorry for Morenos failed career, but I stop feeling sorry for him when I see his Bentley with "Sauced" license plates that he drove drunk in. He disgraced the shield LOL

really? i didn't know that about moreno's license plate. funny. and sad.

[rationalfan]

He has reminded me alot of sproles. I don't know if anyone else (besides you and me) has that same observation

i don't see the sproles comparison. not quick enough, laterally. doesn't hit top speed as quickly as sproles does.

in a way, hillman reminded me of travis henry; the way his body is positioned for a cut/change of direction, the way he runs "forward" to bring more power than a guy his size should have. if he can play like henry in his prime, that's a very good back. let's hope he doesn't mimic henry's off-field lifestyle.

[slim]

i don't see the sproles comparison. not quick enough, laterally. doesn't hit top speed as quickly as sproles does.

in a way, hillman reminded me of travis henry; the way his body is positioned for a cut/change of direction, the way he runs "forward" to bring more power than a guy his size should have. if he can play like henry in his prime, that's a very good back. let's hope he doesn't mimic henry's off-field lifestyle.

I don't see the Sproles comparison either, but he is nothing like Henry. Henry was a freaking bowling ball.

[CoachChaz]

Wow...if Hillman had blue balls, all he'd have to do is line up here today and he'd have plenty of people in line to blow him.

He looked average yesterday. Not bad...not good...but average. Maybe that changes down the road, but personally, I dont see any comparisons with any of the players mentioned so far in this thread. Sure, maybe his size compares, but that's it. The speed and strength just doesnt show yet. I hope I'm wrong, but I see Hillman as a spare. If Elway was looking for 5-8 carry change of pace back, then he got one. If he was looking for Sproles, Rice, McCoy, etc...he needs to keep looking.

Sorry, but his performance was not all that impressive.

[jhns]

He has far too many plays that go nowhere for me to say he has arrived. He isn't hitting the holes like he needs to. Maybe the line only blocks for McGahee though...

He is still in the first games of his rookie year, so I don't put much into what we are seeing. That said, he hasn't been very good up to this point.

[slim]

Wow...if Hillman had blue balls, all he'd have to do is line up here today and he'd have plenty of people in line to blow him.

He looked average yesterday. Not bad...not good...but average. Maybe that changes down the road, but personally, I dont see any comparisons with any of the players mentioned so far in this thread. Sure, maybe his size compares, but that's it. The speed and strength just doesnt show yet. I hope I'm wrong, but I see Hillman as a spare. If Elway was looking for 5-8 carry change of pace back, then he got one. If he was looking for Sproles, Rice, McCoy, etc...he needs to keep looking.

Sorry, but his performance was not all that impressive.

I agree. I was pretty underwhelmed.

However, I am hoping it was more tentativeness than anything that lead to his apparent lack of quickness.

[CoachChaz]

I agree. I was pretty underwhelmed.

However, I am hoping it was more tentativeness than anything that lead to his apparent lack of quickness.

I guess I would hope the same thing, but I would have a hard time understanding how a kid that has played RB on a regular basis for probably half his life, would be "tentative" when given the chance in an NFL game. Who knows

[Buff]

Not trying to be Negative Ned here, but I'd hold off the coronation. Hillman had 10 carries for 31 yds (3.1 ypc) and he needed a 12 yard scamper on a busted defense by Oakland to get the average that high. He also had 2 receptions for 32 yds with 29 of them coming on that one big catch and run. He looked - um, okay. I think folks are getting carried away and trying desperately to find positives for Hillman because Moreno and Ball are so bad and because the team played so well yesterday.

His numbers were actually extremely pedestrian yesterday.

Well, you did a really shitty job at not being a Negative Ned. Just sayin.

[Buff]

I am thrilled that we finally have a RB with breakaway potential. The the mere threat alone completely changes our backfield. I think he is a perfect complement to a hard-running McGahee. Thrilled to have a scat back with speed.

[slim]

I guess I would hope the same thing, but I would have a hard time understanding how a kid that has played RB on a regular basis for probably half his life, would be "tentative" when given the chance in an NFL game. Who knows

IDK, it was his first real game action in the NFL, so maybe it was nerves. Hell, Moreno has been tentative for 4 years now.

[slim]

I am thrilled that we finally have a RB with breakaway potential. The the mere threat alone completely changes our backfield. I think he is a perfect complement to a hard-running McGahee. Thrilled to have a scat back with speed.

But he didn't really show outstanding speed. :noidea:

[Buff]

I agree. I was pretty underwhelmed.

However, I am hoping it was more tentativeness than anything that lead to his apparent lack of quickness.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

[Buff]

But he didn't really show outstanding speed. :noidea:

You clearly didn't watch the game. Do you and Clay ever watch the effing games?

[slim]

Did you watch the game yesterday?

Save your smugness for Pags.

[slim]

You clearly didn't watch the game. Do you and Clay ever watch the effing games?

I recorded it, so I will watch it again. But my initial thought was that he looked kind of slow for someone that was supposed to be a speed back.

Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities.

[BroncoJoe]

I am thrilled that we finally have a RB with breakaway potential. The the mere threat alone completely changes our backfield. I think he is a perfect complement to a hard-running McGahee. Thrilled to have a scat back with speed.

Not bagging on the kid - I'm thrilled he is finally getting some game action. But comeon - he's going to have to prove himself (which did not happen yesterday) before that happens.

[CoachChaz]

IDK, it was his first real game action in the NFL, so maybe it was nerves. Hell, Moreno has been tentative for 4 years now.

Actually, I think Moreno is still trying to play NCAA ball. I dont think he's tentative...I just think he's failed to adjust to the NFL game. A few changes and Moreno could be a damn good player.

[Buff]

The only conclusion one can draw from his touches yesterday is that the kid is fast... Not that he's a future pro bowler, or that he is a great all-around back, but he looked really freaking fast from where I was sitting. I have no effing idea what you guys are talking about.

[rationalfan]

Actually, I think Moreno is still trying to play NCAA ball. I dont think he's tentative...I just think he's failed to adjust to the NFL game. A few changes and Moreno could be a damn good player.

agreed.

[Buff]

Actually, I think Moreno is still trying to play NCAA ball. I dont think he's tentative...I just think he's failed to adjust to the NFL game. A few changes and Moreno could be a damn good player.

Like, run harder and faster? Just a couple of minor adjustments.

[slim]

The only conclusion one can draw from his touches yesterday is that the kid is fast... Not that he's a future pro bowler, or that he is a great all-around back, but he looked really freaking fast from where I was sitting. I have no effing idea what you guys are talking about.

Where were you sitting?

[Buff]

Where were you sitting?

I seriously don't believe you when you say you watched the game.

[slim]

I seriously don't believe you when you say you watched the game.

Yeah, I never watch football. Especially not Bronco games.

[Buff]

Yeah, I never watch football. Especially not Bronco games.

How can you think Hillman looked slow yesterday? Was it when he completely reversed field and outran the entire defense? I am seriously baffled over here.

[slim]

How can you think Hillman looked slow yesterday? Was it when he completely reversed field and outran the entire defense? I am seriously baffled over here.

Well, I didn't say he was "slow", he just didn't show the kind of speed I was expecting from someone dubbed a "speed back" or for someone being compared to Sproles.

[slim]

At any rate, Buffalo....I think we can agree that he is an improvement over Moreno.

[silkamilkamonico]

I've been pretty underwhelmed with every back on the Denver roster, espcially considering the last 2 years. Little disappointed with Fox in that regard, would have thought with the Rb's he was able to pump out in Carolina I would have hoped he would have been able to find something or someone that can do something special, so far it's just the agelese McGahee.

[silkamilkamonico]

Why does everyone keep saying Hillman is a "speed" back? He has a fast time, but he was never considered to be a "speed back" by anyone coming into the NFL, and all of a sudden he's considered a "speed back" in Denver and that's his forte?

[G_Money]

Hillman's gift is not going to be in flat-out speed. I saw him get run down too many times in college (by bigger guys) to believe that. What I saw yesterday was a player with good vision who was able to properly pick his way through holes on the inside (rather than climbing up the backs of his OL) and could hit the edge. He stops on a dime and even though I don't think he has a 5th gear, he gets to gear 4 very, very quickly.

He's the RB version of Eddie Royal.

If used correctly, that could be very useful to us. Glad to see him getting reps and confidence, and showing more field awareness in one game than Moreno has his whole career.

~G

[Chef Zambini]

how is his BLOCKING ! that , more than any thing else will determine his playing time !

[Buff]

Why does everyone keep saying Hillman is a "speed" back? He has a fast time, but he was never considered to be a "speed back" by anyone coming into the NFL, and all of a sudden he's considered a "speed back" in Denver and that's his forte?

Because he's faster than our other RBs? God forbid we use a descriptive adjective.

[G_Money]

He's OUR speed back, that's for sure. Nobody else on this team has his quicks at the position.

[G_Money]

Which is why I was glad to see the WR reverse to Caldwell, actually. If you want to stretch sideline to sideline, then use somebody with the speed to get there, no matter what position they play.

~G

[BroncoNut]

Well, I didn't say he was "slow", he just didn't show the kind of speed I was expecting from someone dubbed a "speed back" or for someone being compared to Sproles.

true, but you were heading that way

[slim]

true, but you were heading that way

It's all relative, Nut. He is slower than Sproles (at least he was yesterday) and I was lead to believe something else.

[BroncoNut]

Why does everyone keep saying Hillman is a "speed" back? He has a fast time, but he was never considered to be a "speed back" by anyone coming into the NFL, and all of a sudden he's considered a "speed back" in Denver and that's his forte?

he's is really fast in the snow. faster than most black guys

[hotcarl]

speaking of speed why the hell is leonard returning kicks? how about caldwell or anyone else? and whats with airline food?

[BroncoNut]

It's all relative, Nut. He is slower than Sproles (at least he was yesterday) and I was lead to believe something else.

relative schmelative. Sproles schmoles. I don't care what you're excuse is, but buff pretty much said for you what you couldn't say yourself

[hotcarl]

he's is really fast in the snow. faster than most black guys lol

[hotcarl]

speaking of speed why the hell is leonard returning kicks? how about caldwell or anyone else? and whats with airline food?

no one reads the last post on the last page

[echobravo]

Thought Hillman did a decent job especially considering that the Raider were expecting run by the time Hillman was getting a saddle put on him.

[BroncoNut]

lol

remember that HC? snow backs?

[hotcarl]

portis in the snow....

[slim]

relative schmelative. Sproles schmoles. I don't care what you're excuse is, but buff pretty much said for you what you couldn't say yourself

Screw Buff and his big mouth.

[silkamilkamonico]

Because he's faster than our other RBs? God forbid we use a descriptive adjective.


Well, if Denver fans want to consider him a "speed back", they will be disappointed. He was never drafted with the intention of being a speed back, and that was never his forte in college.

[BroncoNut]

Well, if Denver fans want to consider him a "speed back", they will be disappointed. He was never drafted with the intention of being a speed back, and that was never his forte in college.

maybe not in college, but it's his forte now

[silkamilkamonico]

maybe not in college, but it's his forte now


That would obviously be the reason why Denver fails so bad at "developing" Rb's.

[Buff]

Well, if Denver fans want to consider him a "speed back", they will be disappointed. He was never drafted with the intention of being a speed back, and that was never his forte in college.

I think you're being overly specific. Speed was most certainly one of his assets at SDSU, and clearly one of the reasons we drafted him, even if he's not sub-4.4 guy.

[BroncoNut]

That would obviously be the reason why Denver fails so bad at "developing" Rb's.

Huh?

[hotcarl]

someone answer my question: why is leonard returning kicks he is slow and sucks

[Buff]

someone answer my question: why is leonard returning kicks he is slow and sucks

I'd also like to have this answered. In college sometimes I get it because they trust a certain guy more than the rest of the team... But surely we can find someone else to fill this role on a GD professional roster.

[hotcarl]

I'd also like to have this answered. In college sometimes I get it because they trust a certain guy more than the rest of the team... But surely we can find someone else to fill this role on a GD professional roster.

yeah like caldwell or someone. maybe someone fast who can juke people? what is this ruben droughns?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

someone answer my question: why is leonard returning kicks he is slow and sucks

Leonhard was brought in primarily to be the primary punt returner. They lined up everyone they could think of at PR in camp and every one of them sucked. Bolden, Caldwell, Squid, Willis, Hillman, and Carter (and others) all got a shot and they couldn't catch the damned ball. Every practice they'd all muff at least 2 punts. Leonhard is out there because he has reliable hands and doesn't muff punts. That's it. He's not fast and doesn't have great vision, but he can secure the catch and at least make a reliable "fair catch" unlike everyone else not named Decker (who they don't want returning punts and risking injury on STs unless it's an emergency (like vs the Texans when he screwed it up).

Answer your question?

[Buff]

Leonhard was brought in primarily to be the primary punt returner. They lined up everyone they could think of at PR in camp and every one of them sucked. Bolden, Caldwell, Squid, Willis, Hillman, and Carter (and others) all got a shot and they couldn't catch the damned ball. Every practice they'd all muff at least 2 punts. Leonhard is out there because he has reliable hands and doesn't muff punts. That's it. He's not fast and doesn't have great vision, but he can secure the catch and at least make a reliable "fair catch" unlike everyone else not named Decker (who they don't want returning punts and risking injury on STs unless it's an emergency (like vs the Texans when he screwed it up).

Answer your question?

Isn't that a pretty crappy justification for a pro team though?

I mean, surely the job description for a professional team actually entails returning the punt in addition to catching it... I could see that explanation in college, but for crying out loud they have the entire world to pick from - I'd like to think we could find someone who is capable of both catching and running.

[ShaneFalco]

Hillman is the next marshall faulk!!! jajaja!

but seriously didnt he break all his San Diego State records in college?

[MOtorboat]

Hillman is the next marshall faulk!!! jajaja!

but seriously didnt he break all his San Diego State records in college?

No.

[TXBRONC]

Isn't that a pretty crappy justification for a pro team though?

I mean, surely the job description for a professional team actually entails returning the punt in addition to catching it... I could see that explanation in college, but for crying out loud they have the entire world to pick from - I'd like to think we could find someone who is capable of both catching and running.

Ball security is always the first priority.

[ShaneFalco]

No.

not all records but his freshmen record i guess.


In 2010 he finished his freshman season with 1,532 yards rushing breaking not only a Mountain West Conference record but also the school freshman record set by Marshall Faulk (1,429)

[chaoticmayhem]

Moreno needs to be selling cell phones at the mall. He MIGHT be good at that.

Doubt it. I hear Mickey D's is hiring though.

[Ravage!!!]

Actually, I think Moreno is still trying to play NCAA ball. I dont think he's tentative...I just think he's failed to adjust to the NFL game. A few changes and Moreno could be a damn good player.

That could be said for every player that didn't make it at this level.

[Ravage!!!]

The only conclusion one can draw from his touches yesterday is that the kid is fast... Not that he's a future pro bowler, or that he is a great all-around back, but he looked really freaking fast from where I was sitting. I have no effing idea what you guys are talking about.

Yeah. I'm not sure what some are talking about when calling him "slow." I think thats what they wanted to see because he's taking over Moreno's job, hence expecting to see flames shoot out his ass when he runs. Other than that, the kid showed speed and quickness. Undoubtedly.

[Chillez]

Definitely had a good game. Just needs more touches.

[shank]

oh cool a new guy

[slim]

oh cool a new guy

or girl.

[shank]

or girl.
girls aren't allowed to like kobe

[TimHippo]

Yea not real sure why leonard is. Must strictly be a secure blanket for the staff knowing he will secure it.

"The turning point came before his senior year of high school, at the University of Wisconsin football camp. Leonhard ran a 4.4-second 40-yard dash, prompting Barry Alvarez, then the Badgers’ coach, to ask him to run again. After Leonhard ran another 4.4, he said, “I knew that I belonged at that level.”"

"Athleticism rendered his size irrelevant. Leonhard first dunked as a high school freshman, and he won two dunk contests against his Wisconsin teammates, once defeating a player a foot taller."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/sports/football/20jets.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Simple Jaded]

If Leonard still runs a 4.4 I'd be shocked.......

[MOtorboat]

If Leonard still runs a 4.4 I'd be shocked.......

He ran a 4.6 at the combine.

Leonhard should not be associated with fast. He's back there to be a reliable returner who doesn't turn it over.

[TimHippo]

Some of you seem to think he is not athletic for some reason.

"Athleticism rendered his size irrelevant. Leonhard first dunked as a high school freshman, and he won two dunk contests against his Wisconsin teammates, once defeating a player a foot taller."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/sports/football/20jets.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[MOtorboat]

Cool.

If he ever reaches the endzone he can dunk it over the goal posts. How is that even remotely relevant to his ability to return punts?

[TimHippo]

Cool.

If he ever reaches the endzone he can dunk it over the goal posts. How is that even remotely relevant to his ability to return punts?

Motorbob, He can jump over people and run past them with his 4.4 speed.

[Simple Jaded]

I used to wack it once or twice a day in high school, things change. Not literally "in" high school, but you get my point......

[MOtorboat]

Motorbob, He can jump over people and run past them with his 4.4 speed.

Except he ran a 4.6.

Six years ago.

He's not that fast.

[TimHippo]

He ran a 4.6 at the combine.
.

That was an unofficial time (4.58 that you embellish as 4.6) and he had a foot injury (stress fracture) going into the combine and draft.

"MADISON – Jim Leonhard is not accustomed to being injured. Perhaps that is why the pain in his left foot went unheeded during the latter portion of the 2004 football season. Leonhard, a 5-foot-8, 190-pound free safety, could not compete with his teammates at Wisconsin’s Pro Timing Day Wednesday — not with the boot on his left foot protecting a stress fracture.

“I had it probably this last half of this year,” Leonhard said. “Didn’t think it was anything too big until the end and then got an MRI and it showed up to be a little worse than we thought.”

Leonhard received the MRI following the Badgers’ Outback Bowl loss to Georgia.

“I’ve never missed a game, never missed anything all through college and then to have this happen at the end is real frustrating,” he said. “Not really a situation I’ve been in. So, it’s frustrating just watching all these guys work out and just knowing that you should be there with them.”

After an excellent career at Wisconsin, Leonhard could be using this time to impress scouts with his athleticism. Instead, he has been stuck rehabilitating his injury. “I’m doing pool work and bike work and all that,” he said, “just not running. It kind of hurts.”

Still, Leonhard expects to have the boot off soon. Once he is completely recovered he hopes to schedule individual workouts with NFL teams.

“We’ll see,” he said. “We’re just kind of playing it by how it feels and once I get the green light I’ll start hitting up a lot more stuff.”

Leonhard went to the NFL Scouting Combine in February and posted an impressive 19 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press. But he could not run or jump, a feeling of limitation he has not felt since breaking his leg his freshman year of high school. In the seven years in between, Leonhard never missed a game. "

http://wisconsin.scout.com/2/358799.html

[Simple Jaded]

Yeah, so the only thing that proves is that the injuries that have robbed Leonard of his so-called 4.4 speed started on college.......

[TimHippo]

Yeah, so the only thing that proves is that the injuries that have robbed Leonard of his so-called 4.4 speed started on college.......

I dont' think that's it at all.

[Simple Jaded]

I dont' think that's it at all.

Tell me you see 4.4 speed when he is out there.......

[MOtorboat]

Well, he's last in the league in return average for returners with more than 10 returns, so that speed isn't showing up.

[Simple Jaded]

I doubt he could turn in a 4.6 at this point. I don't have a problem with Leonard returning punts, I'm fine with the concervative approach. Watch him break a long TD return, I'd be shocked.......

[TimHippo]

Well, he's last in the league in return average for returners with more than 10 returns, so that speed isn't showing up.

So you are basing your evaluation on 3 games? I think Elway and Fox know what they are doing and probably have a better idea of Leonard's skill set and athleticism than you, don't you think.

Jim Leonard was the main punt returner for 3 seasons. In 2008 he was 6th in the NFL in avg return. 2009 he was 17th. 2010 he was 10th in the league.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerPuntReturn/year/2008

[MOtorboat]

So you are basing your evaluation on 3 games? I think Elway and Fox know what they are doing and probably have a better idea of Leonard's skill set and athleticism than you, don't you think.

Jim Leonard was the main punt returner for 3 seasons. In 2008 he was 6th in the NFL in avg return. 2009 he was 17th. 2010 he was 10th in the league.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerPuntReturn/year/2008

I think I can have a pretty good evaluation of a player in a 1/4 of the season. Its four games, btw.

[TimHippo]

I think I can have a pretty good evaluation of a player in a 1/4 of the season. Its four games, btw.

It'd rather have someone who has 4.4 speed, can dunk a basketball at 5-8, has sure hands, and previous punt returning success then someone like say Quan Cosby or Moreno or Sliding Eric Decker.

[MOtorboat]

It'd rather have someone who has 4.4 speed, can dunk a basketball at 5-8, has sure hands, and previous punt returning success then someone like say Quan Cosby or Moreno or Sliding Eric Decker.

LOL, OK...

FTR, when did Moreno return punts?

[Buff]

It'd rather have someone who has 4.4 speed, can dunk a basketball at 5-8, has sure hands, and previous punt returning success then someone like say Quan Cosby or Moreno or Sliding Eric Decker.

First valid point you've made in the thread... We need to get back on the Cosby train.

[Davii]

I think Elway and Fox know what they are doing.

Wait. Tim Tebow fan says what?

[Pudge]

It'd rather have someone who has 4.4 speed, can dunk a basketball at 5-8, has sure hands, and previous punt returning success then someone like say Quan Cosby or Moreno or Sliding Eric Decker.

LOL, OK...

FTR, when did Moreno return punts?

I can think of three punt returns for TDS from Moreno. Only in madden 12 though... He also broke a couple rushing records that same year, and named the Superbowl MVP

[Chef Zambini]

has moreno EVER played a single down on special teams?

[Chef Zambini]

Ball security is always the first priority.thats why all the players wear jockstraps !

[Chef Zambini]

Yeah, so the only thing that proves is that the injuries that have robbed Leonard of his so-called 4.4 speed started on college.......but if he ran a 4.6 wearing that orthopedic boot I am very impressed !

[Chillez]

oh cool a new guy

Yeah, I'm new guy here. Just thought I give this place a try out.

[NightTerror218]

yeah, i'm new guy here. Just thought i give this place a try out.

welcome

[underrated29]

Yeah, I'm new guy here. Just thought I give this place a try out.




Its way better than the other site. Make sure you are signed in for the lounge. That is where the magic happens.

[Simple Jaded]

Its way better than the other site. Make sure you are signed in for the lounge. That is where the magic happens.

Yeah, the lounge is where U29 stalks sports writers. It's worth the price of admission.......

[NightTerror218]

I hope Hillman tears it up this Sunday

[EMB6903]

Hoping just hillman and Mcgahee are the only ones with rushing attempts this Sunday.

[Chef Zambini]

ball can block. ball can catch.
ball can ball, no reason to exclude hi from the party.
If HILLMANS blocking has improved, ball may not be needed.

[MOtorboat]

ball can block. ball can catch.
ball can ball, no reason to exclude hi from the party.
If HILLMANS blocking has improved, ball may not be needed.

Ball is not as good at all three things as the guy they insist on sitting.

Ball sucks. Hopefully, it's just McGahee and Hillman.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If the guy they're sitting is so much better then the only explaination for sitting him is that he hit on JF's wife or daughter if he has one.

[underrated29]

If the guy they're sitting is so much better then the only explaination for sitting him is that he hit on JF's wife or daughter if he has one.



Or because one plays special teams and one does not. Lance ball is a starter on ST, knowshon is not even a backup on ST because he does not play it. But he is better than ball in every aspect, make no mistake.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Or because one plays special teams and one does not. Lance ball is a starter on ST, knowshon is not even a backup on ST because he does not play it. But he is better than ball in every aspect, make no mistake.

That must be why he's on the bench... Oh wait, he's not on the bench he's not dressing. This is not my opinion by the way, it's the powers that be for the Broncos. Are they wrong or are the people here wrong?

[underrated29]

Right, he is not being dressed because we are not going to dress 4 rbs on gameday. We are going to dress 3. Mcgahee, starters. HIllman, backup. Ball- because he plays ST. If ball did not play ST, it would be knowshon. Ball is only on the roster because he can play ST. Not because he does anything better than knowshon or even close to as good as knowshon for that matter as a RB.

[Ravage!!!]

Not because he does anything better than knowshon or even close to as good as knowshon for that matter as a RB.

Not even close.... seriously? What does Moreno do, so well, that puts him so far ahead of someone like Ball?? What does Moreno do that is so superior to anyone on the roster? If it was that much better, do you really think he wouldn't even be dressed for the games??

The reason Moreno is being benched, is because he does NOTHING better than anyone else, and thus, we can use a special teammer to give us the same benefits that Moreno provides...hence... Moreno is expendable.

[bcbronc]

Ball is better than Moreno? Come on. The reason Ball is in the line up over Moreno is special teams and because Ball's style is a bit like McGahee's. Moreno obviously isn't anything like McGahee while Ball at least tries to be a physical runner.

Doesn't make Ball the better player though, just the better fit for Fox's needs from his dressed 45.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Not even close.... seriously? What does Moreno do, so well, that puts him so far ahead of someone like Ball?? What does Moreno do that is so superior to anyone on the roster? If it was that much better, do you really think he wouldn't even be dressed for the games??

The reason Moreno is being benched, is because he does NOTHING better than anyone else, and thus, we can use a special teammer to give us the same benefits that Moreno provides...hence... Moreno is expendable.

You said better than I would have.

[Ravage!!!]

Ball is better than Moreno? Come on. The reason Ball is in the line up over Moreno is special teams and because Ball's style is a bit like McGahee's. Moreno obviously isn't anything like McGahee while Ball at least tries to be a physical runner.

Doesn't make Ball the better player though, just the better fit for Fox's needs from his dressed 45.

Basically, what you are saying is.. that Ball may not be AS good, but is close enough to make Moreno expendable because Moreno isn't so much better that it would justify a roster spot. I can't disagree with that. Moreno isn't THAT much better than Ball so that we don't lose anything if he's not in the game. Ok.

[NightTerror218]

Basically, what you are saying is.. that Ball may not be AS good, but is close enough to make Moreno expendable because Moreno isn't so much better that it would justify a roster spot. I can't disagree with that. Moreno isn't THAT much better than Ball so that we don't lose anything if he's not in the game. Ok.

From what I am gathering McGahee and Ball have their spots on roster. Moreno and Hillman were fighting for the #2 spot. Moreno lost that spot the day he fumbled in ATL. I could see Ball become expendable if another player steps it up on STs and we not longer need him there. IMO Moreno is better then Ball. I think Johnson was better then ball, but Johnson was not a ST player.

[Ravage!!!]

From what I am gathering McGahee and Ball have their spots on roster. Moreno and Hillman were fighting for the #2 spot. Moreno lost that spot the day he fumbled in ATL. I could see Ball become expendable if another player steps it up on STs and we not longer need him there. IMO Moreno is better then Ball. I think Johnson was better then ball, but Johnson was not a ST player.

Ok, thats your opinion. But apparantly, the coaches see that we aren't losing anything by having Ball in the lineup over Moreno.

What I'm saying is that if Moreno was a LOT better than ball, then he would have a spot on the active roster. As it is, he's not a lot better. The Coaches see that they can benefit from Ball having carries as they can with Morneno. That says a lot. That says that the team doesn't see a big enough difference between Ball and Moreno. Thats been the whole discussion.

But he's not even worthy of having a roster spot for. He's not good enough to make a place for. I don't care if he doesn't play special teams. It seems, that if he wants to make it in the NFL, he BETTER learn to play special teams, because thats probably the only place he'll make it.

[Chef Zambini]

ASPECT, BLITZ RECOGNITION.
ASPECT, BLOOCKING
ASPECT, SPECIAL TEAMS CONTRIBUTIONS, PLURAL.
gosh, when you consider those aspects, KM isnt worth dressing compared to BALL whom some think is mediocre.
WTF does that make KM ?

[NightTerror218]

Ok, thats your opinion. But apparantly, the coaches see that we aren't losing anything by having Ball in the lineup over Moreno.

What I'm saying is that if Moreno was a LOT better than ball, then he would have a spot on the active roster. As it is, he's not a lot better. The Coaches see that they can benefit from Ball having carries as they can with Morneno. That says a lot. That says that the team doesn't see a big enough difference between Ball and Moreno. Thats been the whole discussion.

But he's not even worthy of having a roster spot for. He's not good enough to make a place for. I don't care if he doesn't play special teams. It seems, that if he wants to make it in the NFL, he BETTER learn to play special teams, because thats probably the only place he'll make it.

IMO if Hillman gets injured Moreno will be the number 2 next game. Ball is there because he can help is several different aspects (STs and backup RB). Being able to help in ST is more productive then Moreno being #3 and not getting on the field.

[Chef Zambini]

moreno is a turd, end of discussion.