Starting to hate the owners

[Superchop 7]

Greedy.....they get sweet deal after sweet deal.....new stadiums with taxpayer money....new player deals to get more money for themselves.....And for a few more dollars they will take the refs out of the game .....to get a better deal for themselves. No conscience.....no integrity.....just a new beachouse or 20.

[slim]

It is kind of puzzling.

Destroy the integrity of the game to save a few bucks. Yay!

[Dzone]

That display last night was repulsive. The owners dont care because the money is still pouring in in record numbers

[catfish]

as much as people piss and moan about unions, monopolies are infinately worse. You are dealing with the effects of a sanctioned monopoly, Owners will not give a damn what you think till it hits them in the pocket

[slim]

as much as people piss and moan about unions, monopolies are infinately worse. You are dealing with the effects of a sanctioned monopoly, Owners will not give a damn what you think till it hits them in the pocket

And that will ultimately be their undoing.

Kind of funny, actually.

[Buff]

I actually have a tiny bit of sympathy for Goodell on this one. He is merely the mouthpiece for the owners and they are hiding behind him on this issue. He's kind of like a press secretary.

[Chef Zambini]

pensions, refs have them the rest of the league is on a 401K, the NFL fears other UNIONS will demand pensions, thats why the hard-ball on negotiations!
however, bottom line for the refs its a less than $3 million dollar decision for a $3 billion dollar industry, TV revenue ONLY !
according to some less than .001 of what the NFL generates in revenue!
"integrity of the sheild' i keep hearing this from the mouth of the commish but nothing could be further from the truth on this one!
how can a league have integrity when its officials dont even know the rules, set aside their incompetence!
I no longer watch the NBA because of the officiating, pro wrestling is a farce, now my beloved NFL is somewhere inbetween, and sinking to the botom.

[smith49]

I don't disagree with any of you. However, there are some other issues. I've actually changed my stance on this because of how bad the replacements are. One of the issues that I happen to agree with the owners is having a small pool of extra officials that can replace officials that are underperforming. It's something the owners want but the union will not agree to. Unions and accountability just don't go together I guess.

Again, I've changed my stance and I think at this point the owners need to cave on some of these issues and get the league back to an integral(don't know if that's a real word) state.

[rationalfan]

yes, the replacement refs are annoying. yes they're bad for the game's safety/integrity/image/everything. but complaining about it isn't going to help. at all. nothing changes until the nfl sees large numbers of fans or corporate dollars turning away from the games on sundays.

i don't ever see that happening. until the fans give up their fandom, the owners have us by the balls, so to speak.

[nevcraw]

The owners were wrong last year and they are wrong again.. Goodell is looking like a huge doucher for backing the call last night. They are screwing with coaches livelihoods, players livelihoods and safety while pretending that players safety is paramount.
Those of you hate that unions (and I am impartial btw) hopefully can now see why unions get formed in the first place -- to protect a collective group of individuals from the corruption of power and greed. Although on the flip side those groups often succumb to the same problems..

[Nomad]

yes, the replacement refs are annoying. yes they're bad for the game's safety/integrity/image/everything. but complaining about it isn't going to help. at all. nothing changes until the nfl sees large numbers of fans or corporate dollars turning away from the games on sundays.

i don't ever see that happening. until the fans give up their fandom, the owners have us by the balls, so to speak.

Yes, when the owner sees an empty stadium and lost revenue on merchandise and shut off the TVs on Sundays, then they'll cave in. I can perhaps see a little integrity/image going but not much because the NFL (of what I knew) is slowing degrading and that's before the replacement refs. Safety....I don't see it any less safe than last year. I guess now fans can stop with the NFL is a bunch of pussies mantra because now they're complaining about safety and I'll always repeat this, the NFLPA signs of on all the new rules so the players know this. Safety and integrity seem to be the cliche right now.

Buff is right because John Clayton said the same thing last night that Roger Goodell is basically the press secretary for the owners.

[Superchop 7]

Wait until someone gains leverage on one of the replacement refs.......he throws a game for a big payday knowing this thing will eventually settle....takes the $ and runs.

For me.....whatever the networks are selling.....whoever the corporate sponsor is......I ain't buying.

I am not going to another game....not with scab refs.

[BroncoJoe]

LOL. I'm going to watch every game possible (as usual) and am going to the Raiturd game Sunday.

All you pissed off at the owners. Where's the outcry/outrage about the refs walking out on their current, pretty damn sweet deal?

[Softskull]

yes, the replacement refs are annoying. yes they're bad for the game's safety/integrity/image/everything. but complaining about it isn't going to help. at all. nothing changes until the nfl sees large numbers of fans or corporate dollars turning away from the games on sundays.

i don't ever see that happening. until the fans give up their fandom, the owners have us by the balls, so to speak.

My favorite sport was baseball throughout my youth. I haven't been back to a Pro baseball game since the strike in 95. I suspect they dont miss my couple o' hundred bucks a year.

[Buff]

yes, the replacement refs are annoying. yes they're bad for the game's safety/integrity/image/everything. but complaining about it isn't going to help. at all. nothing changes until the nfl sees large numbers of fans or corporate dollars turning away from the games on sundays.

i don't ever see that happening. until the fans give up their fandom, the owners have us by the balls, so to speak.

After last night, I think it's gotten much tougher for the owners to ignore the complaining.

When you've got virtually every major media outlet, the POTUS, and fans of every team complaining about the state of the game, I think more than a few owners are going to be compelled to act. Very credible people are challenging the integrity of the game - I think some owners are going to realize that the financial impact may not be immediate, but that the status quo can't go on for much longer or they will damage the brand.

In short, I agreed with this viewpoint last week when Steve Young advanced it... But I think the game has changed after last night.

[Buff]

LOL. I'm going to watch every game possible (as usual) and am going to the Raiturd game Sunday.

All you pissed off at the owners. Where's the outcry/outrage about the refs walking out on their current, pretty damn sweet deal?

I think the main lack of outrage is that no one really knows what deal they previously had or what deal they are looking for - everyone knew the players were making millions and millions of dollars so it made it easier to point a finger during their lockout. People don't really know if the refs are being reasonable or unreasonable.

[smith49]

LOL. I'm going to watch every game possible (as usual) and am going to the Raiturd game Sunday.

All you pissed off at the owners. Where's the outcry/outrage about the refs walking out on their current, pretty damn sweet deal?

I think the main lack of outrage is that no one really knows what deal they previously had or what deal they are looking for - everyone knew the players were making millions and millions of dollars so it made it easier to point a finger during their lockout. People don't really know if the refs are being reasonable or unreasonable.


I think your right Buff. However, it's not hard to search it out and see what the issues are. I know most people think its just about $$$, but its not. I think if people would take the time to search it out a bit they would find that the owners have some legit points but also so do the refs. It's a huge mess either way. At this point both sides are to blame IMO, and both sides need to get it worked out. The nfl probly needs to cave a bit but I don't see that happening.

[GEM]

It is kind of puzzling.

Destroy the integrity of the game to save a few bucks. Yay!

That's bullshit, slim. Mr. Goodall says the integrity of the game is very important. He would never do such a thing. He says players getting dui's is detrimental to the integrity of the game. Something as minimal as referees who actually know the rules of the game are not important. Duh!

[GEM]

pensions, refs have them the rest of the league is on a 401K, the NFL fears other UNIONS will demand pensions, thats why the hard-ball on negotiations!
however, bottom line for the refs its a less than $3 million dollar decision for a $3 billion dollar industry, TV revenue ONLY !
according to some less than .001 of what the NFL generates in revenue!
"integrity of the sheild' i keep hearing this from the mouth of the commish but nothing could be further from the truth on this one!
how can a league have integrity when its officials dont even know the rules, set aside their incompetence!
I no longer watch the NBA because of the officiating, pro wrestling is a farce, now my beloved NFL is somewhere inbetween, and sinking to the botom.

Zam just mentioned pro wrestling with the nfl and the nba. :laugh:

[BroncoTech]

LOL. I'm going to watch every game possible (as usual) and am going to the Raiturd game Sunday.

All you pissed off at the owners. Where's the outcry/outrage about the refs walking out on their current, pretty damn sweet deal?

They were locked out and the only sweet deal is the 9 billion in profits the NFL expects this year. More profit than the GDP of many countries. There's other things to do on Sundays than watch the NFL and I'll be doing it.

[BroncoJoe]

They were locked out and the only sweet deal is the 9 billion in profits the NFL expects this year. More profit than the GDP of many countries. There's other things to do on Sundays than watch the NFL and I'll be doing it.

First, it's 9 billion in revenue, not profit. Big difference.

Second, WTF cares about the GDP of other countries? Like stated prior, it is sickening how the successful are now ridiculed in this country.

Finally, good for you. I'm going to watch the sport I love and be fully entertained.

[BroncoTech]

Great, look for me to be standing with the working men and not the corporate whores who already have more money than they could spend in 5 generations.

[BroncoJoe]

Great, look for me to be standing with the working men and not the corporate whores who already have more money than they could spend in 5 generations.

Go cry with the 99%'ers. I don't give a rats ass.

[Nomad]

Why do the refs need pensions? Why can't they just invest their part-time six figured job into their own retirement? Right now, according to John Clayton, if the NFL caves in to this pension thing, then they are concerned it open a pandoras box that all the office workers, field maintenance, and other NFL employees are going to want high pensions as well.

Pensions are the only hold up.

[BroncoTech]

You gave a shit when you thought the refs walked out on their 'sweet deal'. The fact is they were locked out by greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the almighty dollar.

[BroncoTech]

Why do the refs need pensions? Why can't they just invest their part-time six figured job into their own retirement? Right now, according to John Clayton, if the NFL caves in to this pension thing, then they are concerned it open a pandoras box that all the office workers, field maintenance, and other NFL employees are going to want high pensions as well.

Pensions are the only hold up.

Why do the owners need 9 billion dollars?

[BeefStew25]

You gave a shit when you thought the refs walked out on their 'sweet deal'. The fact is they were locked out by greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the almighty dollar.

That is awesome you work for free.

[BroncoJoe]

You gave a shit when you thought the refs walked out on their 'sweet deal'. The fact is they were locked out by greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the almighty dollar.

Not really, no. Don't know who you are, but you've clearly not read my opinion on the matter. They were locked out WHEN THEY GOT GREEDY AND WOULDN'T AGREE TO A FAIR PROPOSAL FROM THE LEAGUE.


Why do the owners need 9 billion dollars?

Did you fail miserably at something recently? Such unwarranted hostility.

[BroncoTech]

It's beneath argument that you've missed the point.

[BroncoJoe]

It's beneath argument that you've missed the point.

In other words, "I forgot what my point is", or "I am too dumb to articulate it".

[BroncoTech]

Not really, no. Don't know who you are, but you've clearly not read my opinion on the matter. They were locked out WHEN THEY GOT GREEDY AND WOULDN'T AGREE TO A FAIR PROPOSAL FROM THE LEAGUE.



Did you fail miserably at something recently? Such unwarranted hostility.


They were asking for an extension of the current contract or a contract based on the current one are the reports available. Never heard the report about the union getting greedy.

[BroncoTech]

Oh you got my number and I articulated it just fine.

[BroncoJoe]

They were asking for an extension of the current contract or a contract based on the current one are the reports available. Never heard the report about the union getting greedy.

Perhaps you should read more. Why do you think they want an extension of the current contract?

Also, you realize the without the NFL, these refs all have well paying jobs in respectable professions. Are they part of the greedy, rich a-holes that you're so upset with?

[BroncoTech]

Perhaps you should read more. Why do you think they want an extension of the current contract?

Because that's where most negotiations begin.

Also, you realize the without the NFL, these refs all have well paying jobs in respectable professions. Are they part of the greedy, rich a-holes that you're so upset with?

Respectable professions and having more money than you can spend in 5 generations are 2 different things.

[catfish]

Why do the owners need 9 billion dollars?

the savings to NFL teams over the last contract on the contract that Goodell has offered works out to 62K per team per year for 7 years, you are being subjected to this shit show of refereeing for less than 2 million a year from a brand that brings in 9 billion a year, who is greedy now?

[BeefStew25]

Lets kick his ass Joe.

[BroncoTech]

Lets kick his ass Joe.

Do what conservatives do and make up cases on why they believe against own best interests.

[MOtorboat]

Do what conservatives do and make up cases on why they believe against own best interests.

Making money is against my best interest?

[BeefStew25]

Do what conservatives do and make up cases on why they believe against own best interests.

My best interests would be to get everything for free. Except that doesn't really work, contrary to what your large brain thinks.

[Nomad]

My best interests would be to get everything for free. Except that doesn't really work, contrary to what your large brain thinks.

And not work. :lol:

[BroncoTech]

Making money is evil when the workers of Apple at foxconn, the darling firm of wall street makes billions yet installs suicide nets on their dorms to prevent worker's suicide. Making money is evil when the nation's largest employer, Walmart hires only part time workers and refuses to pay healthcare but instead hands out medicaid forms out with every application. Making money is evil when your gross income is 9 billion nd you cant cover your employees pension costs. Since when is success a bad thing? I think I just told you.

[MOtorboat]

Oh, lord...

[BeefStew25]

Your brain needs a Chinese made airbag.

[BroncoTech]

Nice chatting, gotta run.

[BeefStew25]

Enjoy your 100% american made car tonight buddy.

[Chef Zambini]

thank goodness the nightmare is over, but shame on ROGER G for allowing the lock-out to take place !
WTF was he thinking?
I usually side ith goodell.
I like the guy, think he is genuine and the best comish in pro sports.
( I know that aint sayin' much)
But part of his job is to protect the OWNERS from themselves, and first and foremost,
as he himself has always stated, to protect the 'shield' and the integrity of the game.

the NFL locked out the refs, to force negotiations, this attempt at 'sdaving some coin"
cost the NFL its sacred integrity !
shame on the owners and RG, who acted more like the monkey to the organ grinder, than a comissioner on this one !
yes, I know he got directly involved with negotiations, AFTER being totaslly embarassed by the product on the field..
he also rides in air force jets, stays in the finest hotels and gets the best of everything thanks to his TITLE!
sorry, roger, you diosapointed me on this one, you sold the integrity of the league for a handful of magic beans.
not smart, not sensable, not professional, and LACKING in integrity.
keep thios in mind when you negotiate the next official HELMET contract, dufus !

[BroncoJoe]

thank goodness the nightmare is over, but shame on ROGER G for allowing the lock-out to take place !
WTF was he thinking?
I usually side ith goodell.
I like the guy, think he is genuine and the best comish in pro sports.
( I know that aint sayin' much)
But part of his job is to protect the OWNERS from themselves, and first and foremost,
as he himself has always stated, to protect the 'shield' and the integrity of the game.

the NFL locked out the refs, to force negotiations, this attempt at 'sdaving some coin"
cost the NFL its sacred integrity !
shame on the owners and RG, who acted more like the monkey to the organ grinder, than a comissioner on this one !
yes, I know he got directly involved with negotiations, AFTER being totaslly embarassed by the product on the field..
he also rides in air force jets, stays in the finest hotels and gets the best of everything thanks to his TITLE!
sorry, roger, you diosapointed me on this one, you sold the integrity of the league for a handful of magic beans.
not smart, not sensable, not professional, and LACKING in integrity.
keep thios in mind when you negotiate the next official HELMET contract, dufus !

Wow Zam - GREAT insight! We're all so very lucky to have your commentary on these boards. Please continue to increase our knowledge on the game. I anxiously await your next post.

[Ravage!!!]

Roger can't force or tell the owners what to do. He can't "save them from themselves"... thats not his job. The owners didn't want to pay pension, and they were pretty strong on that stance. Had they been able to get ANY kind of decent officiating to hold the fort down, then they (the owners) would still not be backing off.

The NFL is a business. These billionaires aren't idiots, they aren't stupid, and they didn't become billionaires because they dont' know how to MAKE money. "Saving a bit of coin" is how you make money.

But Roger Goodell is a jackass, and I'm glad the heat of this one comes crashing down on him.

[BroncoTech]

I'm glad the owners overcame their arrogance and got the real refs back to work. Saddened that the only team not owned by wealthy plutocrats is the team took it on the chin by the replacements.

It's an issue that will continue as these city governments try to lower the the pensions of police and firefighters though. Somehow replacement firefighters sound pretty scarey.

I likened the replacement referees to a 6 hour round of golf. It's golf, and not that bad, but I knew it could be better.

[Nomad]

Most police and firefighters are full time so I agree, they deserve a pension for the job they do but pensions are a dying benefit.

For me, it wasn't about the replacements more than it was the idea of part time referees getting a pension. I don't see people beating down the door of Concoco-Phillips for part time worker benefits. Most knew that the replacements were inexperienced and some knew the product and the expectations were lowered. I also believe the regular referees down been down grading as far as quality perhaps it's all the new rules the NFL and NFLPA (don't forget they sign off on any new rule changes so thank players as well for these new rule changes). Goodell is by far a saint, owners will be owners and unions will be unions. I would say most of the negative venom threw at replacements had more to do with a union players and media standing behind their union referees.

I do understand all this, but again I didn't agree with the pension. I want you to come support Local 76 IBEW next time we have negotiations, yes, I'm a union electrician but I still disagree with part time pensions regardless of how well you do your job.


Now it's time for all your to whine about the regular refs....carry on.

[Chef Zambini]

roger could have veoed the lock-out.
That was within his power as comissioner.


at least the NFL media is allowed to speak freely about the league and its refs and comish, unlike the NBA !
even the NFL channel, owned an operated by the NFL, openly chastized the league and the comish office !
god bless freedom of speech !