Giving up sacks

[catfish]

Last year the O-line ended up tied for 9th most sacks given up for the season with 42, so far this year through 3 games they are tied for 9th most sacks given up with 8, on pace for 42.6 sacks for the year.

Is the O-line a concern at this point?

[Dzone]

Yes, the O line is a concern at this point

[Krugan]

Wait, I thought the onlines issues where based off last year mess.

Sigh, the holes we dig....

[silkamilkamonico]

Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

[Mike]

Yes, o-line is a concern.

So is either the route design on pass plays or the way the receivers are running them.

And have to throw in the inability of our receivers to get any separation.

All three are combining to a world of suck.

[catfish]

Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

I am tending to give them the benefit of the doubt based on facig 3 really tough defenses in the first 3 weeks, I am hoping it gets better as they get to the part of the schedule that isn't as tough. I cant imagine that having Manning in would have 0 effect, there has to be some drop in sacks going forward. Either that or Tebow was a hell of a lot shiftier back there than I thought

[catfish]

Yes, o-line is a concern.

So is either the route design on pass plays or the way the receivers are running them.

And have to throw in the inability of our receivers to get any separation.

All three are combining to a world of suck.

The scary part is all of these thing were brought up repeatedly last year. Once again I will give them all benefit of the doubt based on 3 really tough defenses so far

[Northman]

Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

You got me.

I thought for sure it would be different. Ooooops.

[catfish]

You got me.

I thought for sure it would be different. Ooooops.

don't concede yet, these are 3 of the toughest defenses in the league. you may be right at the end of the season:)

[I Eat Staples]

You got me.

I thought for sure it would be different. Ooooops.

As did I, but to be fair I think we're really missing Kuper and Watt is going to do damage to just about every team.

Manny Ramirez should not be a starter in this league, before the season I thought he was a retired baseball player. We'll be better with Kuper back, but Beadles and Walton are really wearing down on my patience.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Things should get a littler better once Kuper is back. Ramirez was getting blown up the last two games. Manning does not have much of a pocket usually and has even been running out of the pocket to throw the ball. If this improves with the return of Kuper, I think manning will look a little better.

[CoachChaz]

Well...we did nothing to improve our OL between then and now. Why should we expect significant improvement? Same with WR, DT, MLB, etc

[BigDaddyBronco]

These last two games have just shown us how far away we are from being elite. But we still have lots of time to gell and get better (and get Kuper healthy), so the season isn't over or anything. I still like our chances in winning the AFC West.

I think this team will struggle defensively against teams that are either elite running teams or elite passing teams in stopping the run or pass, where they need to get better is in taking away the run or pass as best they can and slowing down their scoring. if they didn't give up those three quick TD's yesterday they would have had a good chance of beating Houston yesterday.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well...we did nothing to improve our OL between then and now. Why should we expect significant improvement? Same with WR, DT, MLB, etc

But...but... we have Osweiler and Moreno and Ayers.....

[CrazyHorse]

Kuper needs to replace Ramirez and Koppen needs to replace Walton. That just leaves us with Beadles as our weakest link on the offensive line. Carter or Leonard should replace Moore and Brooking should replace Mays.

[silkamilkamonico]

You got me.

I thought for sure it would be different. Ooooops.

I specifically remember a handful of people arguing that our oline was actually nothing to be concerned about, it was an issue that came with tebow, and us "idiots" would see differently with Manning and his quick release, in a specific thread.

I'm not saying they flat out wrong, but i will say for as adament as they were about everyone else being wrong and not understanding, it sure looks like the oline is a concern up until this point.

[Northman]

I specifically remember a handful of people arguing that our oline was actually nothing to be concerned about, it was an issue that came with tebow, and us "idiots" would see differently with Manning and his quick release, in a specific thread.

I'm not saying they flat out wrong, but i will say for as adament as they were about everyone else being wrong and not understanding, it sure looks like the oline is a concern up until this point.

Nah, i was right there with them. I thought it would be night and day and technically it should be. Watching Brady and Ryan use quick releases tells me that is something we should be doing but we arent. Either way, if its the receivers, the oline, the OC, whatever it is needs to be corrected.

[catfish]

Nah, i was right there with them. I thought it would be night and day and technically it should be. Watching Brady and Ryan use quick releases tells me that is something we should be doing but we arent. Either way, if its the receivers, the oline, the OC, whatever it is needs to be corrected.

I think you are eating crow prematurely, but I respect the fact that you are doing it

[weazel]

Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

I never used Mannings quick release as a reason they would be better but I did think his immobile play would make it easier for them to protect him. I thought one of the reasons they gave up so many sacks was because tebow would just start running in any given direction and they wouldnt know where to steer the Defensive linemen. Can't use that excuse with a statue standing back there.

[silkamilkamonico]

Manning is real good I think at manipulating the pocket. I don't think there is much of a pocket at times for him to do anything. I do think he still does a good job standing in there and being patient.

One thing I think is clear about the first 3 games with Manning, and that's that he isn't afraid to take a big hit and stands in there as long as he absolutely can. The fact that our Wr's can't win 1 on 1 battles makes him hold on for the sack, and certainly doesn't help the cause.

We don't have guys that can win individual matchups in coverage, like a Clark or a Wayne. Decker is a good route runner who doesn't get separation on a consistent basis, and I'm sure his drops aren't giving Manning any confidence to make him a priority either.

[jhildebrand]

Yes, the O line is a concern at this point

At this point? :confused: It was an issue last year, too. I remember stating time and again that Orton was getting hit in his 3rd step of a 5 step drop. The 0 gap blitz was and still is an issue. Walton recognizes it now but he is too weak!


Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

I have been asking the same thing. The same people, aside from North, who made that assertion are now trying to lay blame elsewhere or talk about how it is a team game.


Well...we did nothing to improve our OL between then and now. Why should we expect significant improvement? Same with WR, DT, MLB, etc

Which is why the Osweiler pick is such a terrible one! If you are going plan A-DO IT. A rookie O lineman might be better than Ramirez, Walton, or Beadles. The Chargers in their 14-2 season had 2 rookies on the O line!


Kuper needs to replace Ramirez and Koppen needs to replace Walton. That just leaves us with Beadles as our weakest link on the offensive line. Carter or Leonard should replace Moore and Brooking should replace Mays.

Brooking looks terrible. I agree on Kuper and Koppen. Switch Beadles to RT and Franklin to G.

[jhildebrand]

Also fortgot to mention that Walton consistently snaps the ball low in shotgun which is costing Manning about .5 a second in timing. Walton has to go.

[silkamilkamonico]

At this point? :confused: It was an issue last year, too. I remember stating time and again that Orton was getting hit in his 3rd step of a 5 step drop. The 0 gap blitz was and still is an issue. Walton recognizes it now but he is too weak!



I have been asking the same thing. The same people, aside from North, who made that assertion are now trying to lay blame elsewhere or talk about how it is a team game.



Which is why the Osweiler pick is such a terrible one! If you are going plan A-DO IT. A rookie O lineman might be better than Ramirez, Walton, or Beadles. The Chargers in their 14-2 season had 2 rookies on the O line!



Brooking looks terrible. I agree on Kuper and Koppen. Switch Beadles to RT and Franklin to G.


North is the only one from that group that is even around to debate it. The others won't seem to touch the subject. Ironically, I don't even remember North as being someone in that thread who was calling out others for "being stupid and not getting it".

[CoachChaz]

Brooking has been playing weakside. Let him play the middle. He may be old, but his effort will exceed that of Mays

[jhildebrand]

North is the only one from that group that is even around to debate it. The others won't seem to touch the subject. Ironically, I don't even remember North as being someone in that thread who was calling out others for "being stupid and not getting it".

Nah. North usually remains civil and tends to take his time before taking a definitive stance on a subject. I do know he cited the quick release but as you said he is the only one around to touch it and has enough integrity to admit that this line can't even give Manning enough time for that quick release to matter-at least through 3 games.

[jhildebrand]

Brooking has been playing weakside. Let him play the middle. He may be old, but his effort will exceed that of Mays

You may get your wish. I have a feeling the league is gonna stick it to Mays for that Schaub hit. He is the perfect candidate to take a suspension AND fine he isn't a big name, well known player throughout the league.

I think Belichick finally has it coming too!

[weazel]

Brooking has been playing weakside. Let him play the middle. He may be old, but his effort will exceed that of Mays

lol ask Shaub's ear about Mays' effort

[Northman]

North is the only one from that group that is even around to debate it. The others won't seem to touch the subject. Ironically, I don't even remember North as being someone in that thread who was calling out others for "being stupid and not getting it".

Well yea, i try not to go THERE when stating my opinions. Im not always perfect i know this but i dont recall myself saying anything like that. I was just confident that i felt Manning would be able to read the defenses faster and have a quicker release which would take pressure off the Oline. So far that hasnt happened and i just have to admit when im wrong. Maybe Cat is right and it gets better but so far there isnt much for me to hang my hat on when stating my opinion on that while at the same time giving a lot of grief to Tebow in the process. While i still dont consider Tebow a great QB i do have to scale back my own criticisms one some of the issues that plagued us last year when the same issues are happening this year with a better QB. I have no problems admitting when i am wrong.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

It's all about chemistry. Missing Kuper plays a role, but so does playing with a different QB. At least 3 of the sacks given up this season were on Manning where he either misread a blitz and a guy came free (in Pittsburgh) or stepped up into the sack like he did yesterday. The defender was blocked but Manning stepped up to see the field better and got past his protector where the defender could reach him. Moreno and McGahee are both responsible for two of the sacks, also. Moreno whiffed on blitz pickup vs Pittsburgh once and McGahee ran the wrong way once vs Atlanta forcing Manning just to go down for a "touched down" sack before he got hit.

These are chemistry and practice fixes. Plain and simple. It's not like our O-line is getting blown off the ball every snap or pushed back into Manning's face, but there are times where one O-lineman is left without someone to block and he doesn't know or react to help out someone who is left with a particularly tough opponent (like JJ Watt) or who gets a late blitzer to account for and is left in a 2 on one situation as the lone blocker. Chemistry with the WRs is also a factor. Being able to know a blitz is coming and adjust your route to be the "hot" receiver and then actually running the correct route where Manning can get you the ball makes a big difference - Stokely is that guy right now because he knows Manning better than anyone else. There's a reason Manning alsways seems to go to Stokely when he's in trouble or under pressure, because Stokely runs the right route to give Manning a chance.

Look at DT yesterday with Manning on the missed TD throw. DT was supposed to run the route much quicker and much shallower than he did and Manning was expecting a quick pass so the ball had passed DT before he even turned his head. These are all things that get developed over many weeks of work and practice as well as ironed out in a game scenario. It's not a simple as just knowing who to block and running simple routes. It's all about timing. We're still working on it. It doesn't help that we've had three of the toughest defenses in the league with 3 of the best coordinators back-to-back-to-back.

[vandammage13]

North is the only one from that group that is even around to debate it. The others won't seem to touch the subject. Ironically, I don't even remember North as being someone in that thread who was calling out others for "being stupid and not getting it".

I do remember North saying some things about things going to be different with Manning, but he was usually pretty reasonable about it...

At least he's around to admit when he's wrong, which is more than I can say for most.

[BroncoJoe]

A QB's quick release doesn't mean squat if the receivers are running the wrong routes, or taking their sweetass time getting to where they're supposed to be.

Just my $.02

[Northman]

A QB's quick release doesn't mean squat if the receivers are running the wrong routes, or taking their sweetass time getting to where they're supposed to be.

Just my $.02

I highly doubt thats the entire problem. Especially when ive seen some very poor throws in double coverage, behind the receiver, etc.

[vandammage13]

I highly doubt thats the entire problem. Especially when ive seen some very poor throws in double coverage, behind the receiver, etc.

There are tons of problems, frankly...

Too much to put on one player...which actually makes it more troubling.

[rationalfan]

the Oline seems average at best, far from a dumpster fire. manning is sliding around the pocket, mostly avoiding the collapsible points of the line. he'll get drilled at times; mostly from the blitz. he's getting time to make his reads. but he's not finding anything to throw to. and, i think, he's forcing it too much when there aren't open receivers (but, when you're behind the entire game ...).

there are several problems with the offense. what's encouraging is that last year the broncos coaches proved they're not afraid to change the gameplan when things aren't working. i'm hoping they can do same thing this year.

and, speaking of last year, you can't compare this offense to last year's offense. there are different players and schemes (even if they're both mccoy's schemes, comparing the read option to this pass-heavy plan isn't a fair analysis). the Oline, running backs and tight ends have to perform much differently this year vs. the final 3/4 of last year. anyone who says otherwise is trying to push an agenda.

as for the receivers, i'm beginning to think tebow's scrambling helped them more than i ever realized, allowing them to FINALLY get separation from the defense. yesterday, i also found myself wondering how much fun brandon lloyd would be having with peyton. seems like that would be worth a lot more than a 5th or 6th round pick.

[BroncoWave]

Yes. Oline is a huge concern.

Where are all the people arguing how Manning's quick release would limit sacks now?

It would if we had WRs capable of getting open. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.

[I Eat Staples]

as for the receivers, i'm beginning to think tebow's scrambling helped them more than i ever realized, allowing them to FINALLY get separation from the defense. yesterday, i also found myself wondering how much fun brandon lloyd would be having with peyton. seems like that would be worth a lot more than a 5th or 6th round pick.

His contract was going to expire, and he wasn't going to re-sign with us.

[BroncoWave]

His contract was going to expire, and he wasn't going to re-sign with us.

That's too bad too. He would far and away be our best WR.

[ShooterJM]

but there are times where one O-lineman is left without someone to block and he doesn't know or react to help out someone who is left with a particularly tough opponent (like JJ Watt) or who gets a late blitzer to account for and is left in a 2 on one situation as the lone blocker.


Generally, that's on the center to call the correct line shift.

[BroncoJoe]

I highly doubt thats the entire problem. Especially when ive seen some very poor throws in double coverage, behind the receiver, etc.

Never said it is "the entire problem". And, I've seen every QB in the league, both now and past, throw those passes.