Thoughts, after game 3 vs. Texans

[Hawgdriver]

I expected us to lose. I hoped we would win, but that was a good team. Not a huge surprise, right.

Unhappy with DT. Anyone else feel the same?

I'm tired of Decker's drops. These WRs are not going to take us to great places with that kind of play.

Was Moore a reason why we got burnt deep so often?

I hope this team regroups and picks up some convincing wins, because Broncos could be a good playoff team if they pull it together.

[shank]

pretty sick about the play of our WRs and safeties today. main contributors to today's loss IMO. first long TD was on adams biting on a shallow route, 2nd long TD both adams and moore bit on shallow routes.

[I Eat Staples]

Moore is awful. It's no coincidence that our defense was playing its best while his ass was sitting on the bench.

[Nomad]

Joe Mays will be light in the wallet about Wednesday.

[chazoe60]

Rahim Moore absolutely needs to be replaced. I don't understand why he ever sees the field.

[shank]

also, wtf was decker thinking when he fielded that punt at the end of the game? ******* idiot. between that and the slide, him and i are not on speaking terms right now.

[smyles909]

Thoughts on the game! Sustaining drives with the Offence is crucial for Manning to be on the same page with the other WR. The O-Line needs to block better to open up more running lanes. Defense Line needs to be able to bring pressure without sacrificing LB blitz. You can get away with an average secondary if you have solid Line play. I didn't think Moore played terrible at all. I'll bet that on both long TD's, The defense was aligned in a Cover 3 formation with 1 safety help. When I rewind watch the plays over and over, it seems to me that Adams had Center field on both plays while Moore covered the flats where the TE/Slot receiver was running into his area. This also allows Moore to come up for run support which would explain his high tackle count. I think Houston saw something in film that they put this in their playbook. I read an article that Andre Johnson highlighted that. So it was more so Houston understanding the scheme that Denver did during certain situations and game planning their routes accordingly. Porter looked bad in those TD's not because he was beat, but because he was no where near the vicinity to make a play on the ball. Adams who was the other safety following behind was out of position.

[smyles909]

Where are the speed players you draft specifically for PR and KR? Decker? There are ton of small, swift, and extremely fast athletes out there. I don't understand why Broncos don't have one.

[Dirk]

I am so over DT. He seems to drop balls when it matters most. Same with Decker. If it wasn't for an aging Stokely this game wouldn't have been so close.

Mays has got to go as well as Moore.

I still wish we would have given up that first for Wallace when he was available.

Oh well, we have lost to 2 potential SB teams this year. Atlanta and Houston could be the teams to beat so not all that bad. We'll see how it goes from here.

[Dzone]

Could have been a different outcome if we had an answer for JJ Watt...I dont know what his stats were, but he was all over the place
D Thomas dropping passes and not even making an effort to drag his left foot in the end zone-disappointing

[Northman]

Watt's is a beast.

[Mike]

Would have like to have seen Hillman get a few more touches.

Our OC is absolutely lousy. Worst in the league, IMO.

Coach made the wrong call in not going for the onside kick.

Growing pains are to be expected. Not too concerned about the 1-2 start.

WRs have to do better with getting separation. Saw this problem last year.

Loved the defense hitting hard. Totally got inside Shaub's head for a little while. Long enough for us to get back in the game anyways.

Hate the refs. They are making games borderline unwatchable.

[Dzone]

Schaub loses part of his ear????? Oh Mays is soooo suspended. His hit is getting mass media coverage now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/matt-schaub-loses-piece-ear-illegal-hit-013507090--nfl.html

[Northman]

Yea, i was a bit disappointed in Mays and Miller with their personal fouls. Dont want us to start getting a reputation of being cheap shot artists.

[CoachChaz]

I'll be willing to wait a little longer on DT and see if he ever grows up. I think a lot of his issues with drops are really just a maturity problem and focus. Decker...there is just no excuse for this POS. I dont think I have EVER seen a WR slide when he still has 5 or more yards of running room. That alone shows me where his heart is. Add the usual drops, the punt return gaff and the dropped TD that Dreessen saved his ass on...and I vote for looking very hard for another receiver. It's sad that PM's top choices are Stokely and 2 TE's.

I'm sure there is something in the NFLPA agreement that prevents it, but if I were the Broncos, I'd start fining DT and Decker for dropped balls. For God's sake, it's the ONE absolute job requirement for a WR and they cant seem to get it.

[tomjonesrocks]

How Denver is losing to these teams is big. Having both these games essentially over by halftime (or sooner) has me pretty ******* annoyed. Teams letting Denver crawl back into it only to finish them off with a final score that belies how bad the game actually was doesn't really soften how shitty these games have been to watch.

The last 2 weeks have sucked ass. If Denver doesn't beat Oakland, "you can cancel Christmas", that's a wrap. If the Raiders blow up a ******* 2-3 TD lead in the first or second quarter I'm going to throw my game snacks at the goddamn TV. Sick of this shit.

This team needs to get it together fast. The season is on the line in the next one--and against the most hated rival.

PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS? Honestly, I don't think so. Not from what we've seen in the first 3 weeks. This team's on the outside looking in unless major changes are made.

[Northman]

How we lose to these teams is big. Having both these games essentially over by halftime (or sooner) has me pretty ******* annoyed. Teams letting Denver crawl back into it only to finish them off with a final score that belies how bad the game actually was doesn't really soften how shitty these games have been to watch.

The last 2 weeks have sucked ass. If Denver doesn't beat Oakland, "you can cancel Christmas", that's a wrap. If the Raiders blow up a ******* 2-3 TD lead in the first or second quarter I'm going to throw my game snacks at the goddamn TV. Sick of this shit.

This team needs to get it together fast. The season is on the line in the next one--and against the most hated rival.


I agree. The final score does not really indicate the beating that this team is taking.

[vandammage13]

Lol... remember being chided for a thread I made a few weeks ago about Decker dropping passes...

...Vindication..

[tomjonesrocks]

I agree. The final score does not really indicate the beating that this team is taking.

Blowouts were supposed to be over with Manning's arrival. So I am pretty disappointed. I hope those that say things will improve are right because this schedule does not allow for losing to any team that's not elite. Time is already running out to turn things around.

[weazel]

also, wtf was decker thinking when he fielded that punt at the end of the game? ******* idiot. between that and the slide, him and i are not on speaking terms right now.

those two plays showed me a lot about where that guys head is at.

[I Eat Staples]

What I don't understand about Decker is that he was known for having great hands in college. He wasn't flashy but he caught the ball when it was thrown to him. Judging by him doing a QB slide, I'd say his problem is that he's afraid to get hit. He's more worried about protecting himself than stretching out and making a catch.

DT is a beast, so we're going to have to live with the drops and hope he gets his act together. He has too much talent to just give up on. His problem is that he's thinking about taking every pass to the house before he even catches it. He needs to realize that sometimes a 12 yard grab for a first down is just as big as taking a screen pass for a TD.

[tomjonesrocks]

Schaub loses part of his ear????? Oh Mays is soooo suspended. His hit is getting mass media coverage now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/matt-schaub-loses-piece-ear-illegal-hit-013507090--nfl.html

Holy Shit. Agree--Mays is toast. The people here defending that hit would not be defending it if it were Manning missing part of his ear.

[vandammage13]

What I don't understand about Decker is that he was known for having great hands in college. He wasn't flashy but he caught the ball when it was thrown to him. Judging by him doing a QB slide, I'd say his problem is that he's afraid to get hit. He's more worried about protecting himself than stretching out and making a catch.

DT is a beast, so we're going to have to live with the drops and hope he gets his act together. He has too much talent to just give up on. His problem is that he's thinking about taking every pass to the house before he even catches it. He needs to realize that sometimes a 12 yard grab for a first down is just as big as taking a screen pass for a TD.

That is what's puzzling to me as well.

I actually was forced to watch a lot of Minnesota Gopher games since my wife is from there...It was some of the most boring football ever, but the one bright spot was Decker. Dude caught absolutely everything that was thrown his way, so needless to say, I was excited when we picked him up.

I'm not sure what the problem is, but I think you might be on to something there...He just might be intimidated by the more agressive, physical hitting of the NFL...I really can't think of any other reason why a guy who was so sure-handed could all of a sudden not know how to catch the ball.

[underrated29]

Holy Shit. Agree--Mays is toast. The people here defending that hit would not be defending it if it were Manning missing part of his ear.



Lance ball sucks so bad. Thats what i take away from this game. Maybe they are sending onowshon a message. Maybe not but all the posters ajd even the coaches are flat out retarded if they would rather have lance ball starting over knowshon.

[CoachChaz]

What I don't understand about Decker is that he was known for having great hands in college. He wasn't flashy but he caught the ball when it was thrown to him. Judging by him doing a QB slide, I'd say his problem is that he's afraid to get hit. He's more worried about protecting himself than stretching out and making a catch.

DT is a beast, so we're going to have to live with the drops and hope he gets his act together. He has too much talent to just give up on. His problem is that he's thinking about taking every pass to the house before he even catches it. He needs to realize that sometimes a 12 yard grab for a first down is just as big as taking a screen pass for a TD.

The drop in the endzone that Dreessen saved his ass on is another example in this growing list of evidence

[tomjonesrocks]

Lance ball sucks so bad. Thats what i take away from this game. Maybe they are sending onowshon a message. Maybe not but all the posters ajd even the coaches are flat out retarded if they would rather have lance ball starting over knowshon.

Can't agree. One of the few things the team got right on this one was keeping no-show on the bench. If Ball fumbles and loses the team a game when they're going in for a score then I'll reconsider. You can't have that from an average to below average RB. Until then I'm fine with Ball until Hillman is ready to make Moreno officially expendable.

McGahee getting stuffed time and time and time again after the first quarter is more disconcerting than Ball.

In any case, memories of Lance Ball are at the bottom of my takeaways from this pile of...

[Northman]

Lance ball sucks so bad. Thats what i take away from this game. Maybe they are sending onowshon a message. Maybe not but all the posters ajd even the coaches are flat out retarded if they would rather have lance ball starting over knowshon.

They can cut both, i dont care. Both are worthless.

[Dzone]

Atlanta Houston could be playing in the Super Bowl. They are ranked 1-2 in many of todays power rankings. Crown their asses

[Hawgdriver]

Could have been a different outcome if we had an answer for JJ Watt...

Watt v. Ramirez, 99 v. 65, Man v. Boy.

[Hawgdriver]

I'll be willing to wait a little longer on DT and see if he ever grows up. I think a lot of his issues with drops are really just a maturity problem and focus.

It seemed to me that Manning was frustrated with DT because he wasn't running his routes. If DT and Manning aren't on the same sheet of music, there ain't no music.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

My thoughts:

The one thing I really can't complain too much about is the officiating in this game. The replacement refs did an adequate job. They missed a couple of calls, but typically made up for it. One being the Illegal Contact on Champ. Champ is allowed to establish position and he did when Johnson made his double move. Johnson then turned and ran into Champ. The ball was uncatchable either way. They should've let that one go. We got it back on the PI against Decker in the endzone. There's no way that was PI. Sure, there was some contact, but once again, the defender can establish position and Decker backed into him. There's no way that was a catchable ball either. By the time Decker tried to adjust to the ball's flight the ball was 5 yards over his head and was passing him. It would be nice if the refs called a couple more penalties on the other team, but I didn't see many flagrant fouls that weren't called other than a minor facemask here or there while guys were getting tackled that you could only see on replay - easily missed. Oh, that roughing the passer on Miller was horseshit though. Miller was one step from Schaub and had already lowered the shoulder when Schaub released the ball. May's hit was obviously a penalty. The refs did not effect the outcome of this game as they had the week before.

The offense:

One word: sloppy. They seemed out of sync and out of rhythm early on again. The O-line wasn't working well as a team (on most of Manning's sacks, Ramirez was left to block Watt one-on-one and no outside rusher came on Franklin's side, so Franklin blocked nobody and Ramirez got beat). Manning made some bad reads and I don't know if it was the playcalling or the audibling (I can't lay all the blame on McCoy, Manning has free reign to adjust the plays and looks like he's doing it every snap) but there were a few times the play we ran was exactly what the defense was planning for. Lots of Texans front seven guys came unblocked while O-lineman blocked nobody which means that either the O-line or Manning, or both were confused on some protection schemes. Our WRs didn't help. They seemed to be completely out of sync with Manning and when he did deliver the ball, they dropped a couple of catchable ones. Manning wasn't perfect either. He had two dropped INTs and that pass to DT on the square in that was really high. Should DT have caught it? Yes. Was there absolutely no reason for DT to have to stop, jump, and fully extend for it? Yes. Manning just sailed it. Had he hit him in the numbers, it would've been a big play because there wasn't a defender within 20 yards. As for Decker's slide, don't get me started. He was 5 yards from the nearest defender and didn't even try to juke, run over, or evade - he just went down like a hooker at a pole smoking convention.

Our running game is suspect. It's not even talent, it's scheme. We ran almost exclusively out of 3 WR sets - most of them shotgun draws. None of our RBs are really designed for that type of offense except maybe Hillman. Those draw plays are designed for speedy backs who can catch the defense flat footed in pass coverage. None of our backs do that. They take the ball, dance a little, and get dragged down. The only reason McGahee had positive yardage on most plays is because he's 240 lbs and tough to arm tackle. Hopefully the return of Kuper will be a boon to both the rushing and the passing game. After a good game vs Pittsburgh, Ramirez has regressed mightily. He is actually worse than both Beadles and Walton. He holds on most plays, flagged or not, and just can't stop guys that cross his face.

The defense:

Rahim "the Dream" is driving me crazy. Like I said last week, all he does after the snap of the ball is stand there and look confused. He takes no action until either the play is by him or someone catches the ball or runs in front of him, then he'll try to make a tackle. On both deep routes we gave up, he had deep left field responsibility. On both routes he stood there and watched the receiver run right by him (as a matter of fact, both made their inward break to the post as soon as they cleared him standing there flat footed) then decided to bite on the underneath coverage (in both cases the TE) that Mike Adams already had responsibility for and was running with. QBs have mind powers over the kid because he goes exactly where they want him to, every time. He has no instincts out there and is a non-factor vs both the run and pass. He's made absolutely ZERO impact plays in three games. He needs to be replaced. Leonhard might be slow, but he's smart. Carter is better than Moore. I'd like to see Mike Adams moved to FS and Carter or Leonhard moved to SS. I have no idea what happened to/with Porter yesterday. I don't know why he was benched but I'm sure they had their reasons (I missed the first quarter). I know he was the guy who got beat on both deep throws, but without Safety help and all day to throw, how many guys can run stride for stride with Andre Johnson? Chris Harris played extremely well except for that one bad angle on the jump ball where he lost his footing, but the kid goes hard every play.

As for the front 7, they are totally hit and miss. Bannan had a darned good game yesterday and seemed to be the only guy on the DL who played well every snap. We need to find a complement to Doom at LDE not named Von Miller. We have to be able to use Miller as more than just a pass rusher - and when we do, we need to disguise it better. He's our most athletic LB and just lining him up as an obvious rusher all the time is severely limiting his ability to make plays. I was hoping Malik Jackson might step up at LDE. He's more of a DE than a DT anyway. That allows Wolfe to move and stay inside at 3 technique where we need him. Mays is still Mays - only effective running straight downhill and hitting like a freight train, but still as step late to the hole and terrible in coverage. We need a real MLB on this team. We just don't have one. We don't have someone out there who can react to the offense and get the front 7 lined up right. Champ and Adams do a decent job of adjusting the secondary, but the front seven just lines up in their base set and stays there until the ball is snapped. I'm still not seeing any DL get their damned hands up into the passing lanes. That frustrates the shit out of me.

We're a work in progress. We lost to a damned good team yesterday. We need to start faster and put the other team on the defensive early for our scheme and personnel to work. This team is built to play with the lead, not come from behind all the time. We will improve, I have no doubt. Both the Pats and Steelers are 1-2 just like us and by the looks of it we just played our two toughest opponents in back-to-back weeks. I'm making the prediction that we will win this division. I only see 2 really tough opponents left - NE in NE and Baltimore in Baltimore. Other than that, we're as good if not better than everyone else we play.

[slim]

Lol... remember being chided for a thread I made a few weeks ago about Decker dropping passes...

...Vindication..

Yeah, no one to scapegoat this year.

[jhildebrand]

Thoughts after the Texans game:

Mike McCoy is a hinderance to this offense. The wrong coordinator got away in Dennis Allen. If we are going to have a true OC or someone calling the game, even if it is only at times, I would like to see Studesville step into that role. He showed enough in his stint as interim HC to warrant it. McCoy has been around long enough to show "he is who we think he is." He seems to have LaBeau figured out which is great but so does most of the rest of the league.

Our running game is the same as it was with Orton under center last year: ineffective. The OL is a major part of this but the backs can't escape the blame. Several replays showed, and were highlighted yesterday, where the Texans double teamed Decker and Thomas. That means this team should be able to run. It just isn't happening. We need to see more of Hillman but I get why that didn't happen yesterday.

DL has been pretty good through 3. I was concerned with Rodgers being named the new DL coach. That doesn't seem to be an issue. Bannan seems to be on his ass a lot again in his second stint with the Broncos. It may be time to look at Marcus Thomas.

Trade Moreno while you can for any OL in the league. Ramirez is useless.

Secondary looked terrible yesterday. They miss the leadership of Dawk. I am hoping it is just the fact they played some major WR 2 weeks in a row. I am willing to give them a pass for yesterday.

Dumervil showed up on the stat sheet. Nice to see.

Finally, this O has to find a way to score on opening drives especially at home. 3 1st Quarter points through 3 games simply isn't good enough.

[weazel]

Thoughts after the Texans game:

Mike McCoy is a hinderance to this offense. The wrong coordinator got away in Dennis Allen. If we are going to have a true OC or someone calling the game, even if it is only at times, I would like to see Studesville step into that role. He showed enough in his stint as interim HC to warrant it. McCoy has been around long enough to show "he is who we think he is." He seems to have LaBeau figured out which is great but so does most of the rest of the league.

Our running game is the same as it was with Orton under center last year: ineffective. The OL is a major part of this but the backs can't escape the blame. Several replays showed, and were highlighted yesterday, where the Texans double teamed Decker and Thomas. That means this team should be able to run. It just isn't happening. We need to see more of Hillman but I get why that didn't happen yesterday.

DL has been pretty good through 3. I was concerned with Rodgers being named the new DL coach. That doesn't seem to be an issue. Bannan seems to be on his ass a lot again in his second stint with the Broncos. It may be time to look at Marcus Thomas.

Trade Moreno while you can for any OL in the league. Ramirez is useless.

Secondary looked terrible yesterday. They miss the leadership of Dawk. I am hoping it is just the fact they played some major WR 2 weeks in a row. I am willing to give them a pass for yesterday.

Dumervil showed up on the stat sheet. Nice to see.

Finally, this O has to find a way to score on opening drives especially at home. 3 1st Quarter points through 3 games simply isn't good enough.

I agree

It makes me miss Shanahan;s scripted plays to start a game... doesnt make me miss Shanahan's inability to make changes as the game went along though.

[G_Money]

Thoughts:

- The mish-mash offense of McCoy and Peyton isn't working so far. We are too predictable in the running game (If I can call it based on personnel sets and situations then the D can too) and McGahee will keep getting hurt running the way that he does, so the backup needs to have some element of surprise on their side. For God's sake, if they're putting 7 men at the line then throw the damn ball! We need to run the no-huddle more at home.

I understand not running it all the time on the road due to crowd noise, but at home (and at altitude) we can destroy defenses with it. It's the only progress we really make. We can move the ball early in the game but we self-destruct and either turn it over or settle for field goals because the scoring part of this offense is rudimentary, especially in red-zone tactics. Peyton's got a real running game for the first time in a while, but if we don't know WHEN to utilize it then it won't help us turn the offense into a well-oiled machine. See: what Houston did to us versus what we did to them the first 3 quarters. Kubes knows how to work the run and the pass and complement each facet. We aren't doing that. We run until it stops working, then we give up and try to pass, then that fails so we go back to the run... very herky-jerky. Better play-calling and process is a must.

- We need better receivers. DT not dragging his foot is unforgivable. He drags it and we have the extra 90 seconds we need for that last drive. Decker sliding is a JOKE. The dropped passes might be understandable if John Elway was blasting em off their hands at a hundred miles and hour, but Peyton's throwing pillow-soft ducklings out there and we're flailing at them like hyper-ventilating 7th graders. Peyton only trusts Stokely and Tamme, with good reason, and they should be 4th-option types. Fire Moreno and get Johnson off the PS to give him another set of quality receiving hands, or utilize Hillman more in that role. Manning can't do much without guys willing to actually RECIEVE his passes.

- Blocking has to get better. I know Manny's not the starter, but he's got to get better. Beadles and Walton still can't hold up. Clady's never recovered to the monster he was before his knee injury, and Franklin should be inside, not outside. Glad we addressed the line in the draft...oh, wait...nevermind. Maybe next year. The problem is our heavy package removes receiving options. Other teams have 260 pound fullbacks or 290 pound tight ends who can catch, and we don't have that. We bring in backup OL for heavy packages and that pulls out Manning's trust receivers in Stokely and Tamme, because they're both light in the pants. Manning rolling out with his stubby legs and throwing on the run is not what I want to see from this offense.

- Safety play is still killing us. I'm hoping Carter getting back on the field instead of Moore will help, because Adams can't do it all himself (or sometimes even just do his job, though he's still far better than Moore). We're thin in the secondary. Chris Harris is vital to our pass defense, too vital - especially with all the multiple TE sets we'll be seeing soon that are hard to defend with Harris and Moore against 6'5 loads.

The problem is there's not a lot we can do about our issues other than ride them out. We decided DT and Decker were okay as the top two receivers, and they haven't been. We added a safety in FA and STILL can't clear up our defensive backfield question marks. Kuper coming back might make the OL better, but if not then we're stuck. Thank God we have Osweiler though, to throw those Hail Marys that have won us the last couple of games.

I never though this was gonna be the year to go all the way - there's an adjustment period to a new QB, a new offense, new staff. We should be good enough to win the West, and I'm impressed with the fight on the team to bring the score close on two games that got away from us early. I like the coaching staff fine (except for McCoy) and our personnel doesn't seem that far away.

But the players we have need to play up to their talent level. Too many of them aren't. And we can't afford many more baby steps on the road to getting the offense to mesh. Those guys are gonna have to put it together this week. No more easy drops, baseball slides, blown blocking assignments, horrendous mis-reads by the QB...

Amateur Hour has to end. We've lost to two of the 5 best teams in the league, and there's no shame in it. But the mistakes we made against them would cost us against lesser teams too. Gotta get our heads in the game and maximize THIS talent - adding extra talent is an off-season problem, and we still have a lot we can do with the current group if they'll step up and perform.

~G

[Northman]

but Peyton's throwing pillow-soft ducklings out there

That was funny G. Good description.

I will only add that your correct. If we go out and lose too Oakland next week than the whole mantra about losing to tough teams because null and void. Consistency and beating the teams your supposed too is what defines you.

[ShooterJM]

That was funny G. Good description.

I will only add that your correct. If we go out and lose too Oakland next week than the whole mantra about losing to tough teams because null and void. Consistency and beating the teams your supposed too is what defines you.

+1, Broncos have beat one decent team and lost to two good ones. All we really know at this point is they're not a great team. Now we'll start finding out if they're a good team.

[slim]

My thoughts: We traded our magic beans for some cow that has no milk.

[Mike]

Kill the cow!

[hotcarl]

adams sucks!!!

[BroncoNut]

adams is pretty bad, but I still think he was a good pick given our situation

[Mile High]

Watts was a beast, but Kuper will help solidify the O line. D LINE and LBs I am getting worried.

[Nomad]

Watts was a beast, but Kuper will help solidify the O line. D LINE and LBs I am getting worried.

That's because he's an Alaskan boy:D

[BroncoNut]

Watts was a beast, but Kuper will help solidify the O line. D LINE and LBs I am getting worried.

alot of people on here think I am pretty football dumb, but our secondary is worse off I think. we need to select for these positions next draft.. should have last one

[OrangeHoof]

What I don't understand about Decker is that he was known for having great hands in college. He wasn't flashy but he caught the ball when it was thrown to him. Judging by him doing a QB slide, I'd say his problem is that he's afraid to get hit. He's more worried about protecting himself than stretching out and making a catch.


After he took that wicked hit that knocked him out of the Steeler game in last year's playoffs, I wonder if Decker isn't a bit gun shy. Doesn't explain the drops because he was dropping passes last year but it might explain some crocodile arms.