Sloppy scrimmage for new QB Orton, Broncos draws boo birds

[Magnificent Seven]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The largest crowd ever to watch a Denver Broncos practice didn't much like what it saw.

New quarterback Kyle Orton, acquired from the Chicago Bears for Pro Bowler Jay Cutler in the biggest NFL trade of the offseason, was booed by some of the 13,402 fans watching his unofficial debut at Invesco Field when he threw two interceptions and several bad passes during a structured scrimmage Thursday night.

Orton drew the fans' ire when he was picked off twice by cornerback Andre' Goodman, who returned the second interception for a long touchdown.

"I had a good day," Goodman said in a lonely sentiment afterward.

Orton also was jeered when he threw a pass behind wide receiver Chad Jackson, again when he missed a wide-open Jabar Gaffney in the end zone and also when he floated a pass that cornerback Champ Bailey busted up down the middle.

"Fans can cheer. They can boo," Orton said. "We've got good fans, and they're passionate about their football, that's for sure."

Orton wasn't alone in the fans' disapproval. The crowd booed Brett Kern for two poor punts and also let Matt Prater have it for missing consecutive 43-yard field-goal attempts -- one to the right and one way left -- at the end of the scrimmage.

"I heard a few boos," Prater said. "I had heard them during other boos, and then I missed a kick and really heard the boos. That's part of the business."

Prater hit three straight kicks to end the scrimmage and drew polite applause.

New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels was disappointed in a lot of things about the scrimmage but certainly not the fans' reactions.

"It's the National Football League, and that's what people do, and they'll cheer you when you should be cheered and boo you when you should be booed," McDaniels said. "Hey, I've been around for a while. I understand that that's going to happen, and it doesn't surprise me and it doesn't disappoint me."

What disappointed McDaniels was the slew of mistakes all over the field, not that he wasn't expecting to have mixed feelings.

"I learned a long time ago -- in the spring -- that as a head coach, you never have a good practice when you practice offense vs. defense," McDaniels said, "because someone's always going to make a good play and then the other side is on the other end of it.

"So there's a lot of mistakes made tonight on both sides. Kyle obviously made a couple, but he certainly wasn't alone, and we'll go back to work tomorrow morning and fix what's wrong."

McDaniels declined to comment on rampant speculation that safety Brian Dawkins, the cornerstone of his defensive overhaul, has a broken hand and needs surgery.

Dawkins, who's in his first season with the Broncos after 13 years with the Philadelphia Eagles, was hurt Tuesday. The Broncos have declined to reveal the nature or extent of Dawkins' injury, saying only that he'll be out a few days.

Rookie safety David Bruton has replaced Dawkins at strong safety with the Broncos' first unit, and he fueled the speculation that the veteran's injury was more serious than the team is letting on when he said after the Thursday morning walkthrough: "What happened with Dawkins, it's sad, but you get your call, it's time to step up ... and hope for a speedy recovery."

Dawkins wasn't on the field Thursday. He plans to skip Friday's workout to attend a memorial service in Philadelphia for former Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson, who died last week.

McDaniels also declined to confirm reports that the team was close to signing rookie running back Knowshon Moreno, who was the 12th overall pick in the draft.

"I'd love for the guy to sign," said running back Correll Buckhalter, who has been backing up starter LaMont Jordan at training camp during Moreno's weeklong holdout. "It's another added dimension to our offense."

And Buckhalter shrugged off all the boo-birds.

"The booing doesn't bother me at all," he said. "I played in Philly -- you get consistent boos there. You have to have thick skin."

http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story?id=09000d5d811b7846&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[Overtime]

not a good sign. i know it's only training camp, and this is where we want errors to happen, so we can get them corrected, but wow...for 13,000 to be booing at a practice training camp scrimmage....not good.

i hope this is not some sort of premonition of things to come this season.

[Shazam!]

...scrimmages and training camp is not the time to panic everyone.

[Magnificent Seven]

I think these "boos" were misunderstood. They weren't booing Orton or the kickers, they were just booing McDaniels. That's all.

[aberdien]

That's awesome.

[Nature Boy]

Any QB short of Cutler will always be reminded by the fans. McDaniels will always be known as the guy who lost Cutler if he does not find a equivalent replacement or take the Broncos deep into the playoffs before he is canned.

.

[Reidman]

...scrimmages and training camp is not the time to panic everyone.

I agree but it should also be the time when the players are most relaxed and loose since it's not a real game. First scrimmage means nothing though, you are right. Hopefully they focus on the mistakes and work them out in pre-season...

[Northman]

Its a scrimmage game. Im not worried.

[Shazam!]

I'd like to know how many McDaniels haters said "FIRE SHANAHAN" in this decade for not only sloppy scrimmages and practices, but when they played like complete shit in REAL GAMES. My, how poor some people's memories are.

[dogfish]

:lol::lol:

[BroncoWave]

I am all for booing the shit out of my team when they deserve it but a glorified practice a week into training camp is not the time or place. If teams were supposed to be rolling on all cylinders at this point then there would be no point for camp or preseason.

I'm sure everyone that booed tonight did their current job perfectly a week into working wherever they work now! :lol:

[Watchthemiddle]

Cutler threw an int to Urlacher this week.......

Just saying....

Booooo

Camp is one week old. Now is the time to make the mistakes and fix them.

Not worried

[silkamilkamonico]

I think these "boos" were misunderstood. They weren't booing Orton or the kickers, they were just booing McDaniels. That's all.

I think they were booing Pat Bowlen, for not doing what he should have done 6 years ago anbd fired Mike Shanahan. At least that way Denver wouldn't be in this position, trying to rebound from 3 of the most pathetic years in this franchise's last 20.

[tumbana]

Cutler threw an int to Urlacher this week.......

Just saying....

Booooo

Camp is one week old. Now is the time to make the mistakes and fix them.

Not worried

He has also been connecting on multiple TD bombs all week and completing a vast majority of his passes and is looking good doing it. Both the offense and defense have been going at each other. Cutler is also going against the best defense in the NFL when it comes to forcing TOs the last 5 years and had the 3rd most INTs last year. It will only make him better. He has not thrown 3 picks in any practice or scrimmage and certainly not to the craptastic Broncos D.

[Elevation inc]

He has also been connecting on multiple TD bombs all week and completing a vast majority of his passes and is looking good doing it. Both the offense and defense have been going at each other. Cutler is also going against the best defense in the NFL when it comes to forcing TOs the last 5 years and had the 3rd most INTs last year. It will only make him better. He has not thrown 3 picks in any practice or scrimmage and certainly not to the craptastic Broncos D.


bears TC has started, so keep your focus there, bringing your cutler man love over here is pointless....

[TXBRONC]

Cutler threw an int to Urlacher this week.......

Just saying....

Booooo

Camp is one week old. Now is the time to make the mistakes and fix them.

Not worried

So what he's not our quarterback, and using that as excuse for Orton's mistakes is weak.

That being said I agree Orton throwing a couple of picks in a training camp practice is no big deal.

[Elevation inc]

winning cures all.....i feel with a improved defense and our new run game, kyle can be good enough to lead us to a 7-9 or 8-8 record....i dont think he is the answer here long term nor simms but i certainly dont think we are looking at jamarcus russel or anything...lol

now orton could suprise and dominate when games count(a practcie 1 week in certainly isnt news on failure. (its a new freakin system far and above advanced over anything chiacgo ever did)) or he could fail.

but the end result is that at the end of the day if orton doesnt work out he is a FA and can be released after the season with out costing us anything.

on the flip side those that felt we got equal value in the trade are blind.....unless robert ayers becomes the next demarcus ware next year we didnt get even value on the market. however would jason campbell or luke mcnown be any better? i dont think so.....i didnt like the trade, still dont, and am mad about the value. but with that being said we are headed in a very good direction and this team will get better every week. is it enough to lead to the playoffs next year well i will reserve judgement till i see the actuall pre-season games.

many need to keep in mind though that cutler didnt want to be here anymore, he used a wack ass excuse of the cassel trade to force his way out of a situation he didnt ever want to be in once shanny was fired. why else would you ignore your owner who has done nothing but be respectful to you? it had to happen and cutler is the reason we are left picking up the pieces. if he answers bowlens call he doesnt get traded the way he did....

mcd had faults like being a bit to cocky off the bat, but the end result is MCD learned, moved on and is trying to get this team in a position to win games with what he has thats what matters now.....

if orton isnt the answer then you move on with the cards your dealt.....bowlen traded jay cutler, and MCd is trying to make orton work its not to hard for a objective person to see....

trying to discredit cutler or orton or talk up either QB is just pointless....the season tells the story not the speculative media heads and board messengers

regardless the actual preseason games will tell us whats up....our secondary was horrid last year and our new FA guy picks off 2 passes 4 less than we managed all year last year in 16 games....and the fans boo....

the defense was and always has been the problem here, it wasnt plummer, it wasnt griese, it wasnt cutler....its been the defense

so if the defense has a **** hot scrimmage more power to them.....i would rather see a takeaway defense with a good pass rush and a grinding rush offense, than a qb that can throw for 4000 yds and 25 td's...but maybe thats just me......

as others stated the one to worry about is matt prater, not kyle orton. im sure many of those booers never stared down a patriots encyclopedia of a playbook and had to have it down tom brady style by week 1 of there first TC in the new offense....

i will worry if orton throws 2 picks against cincy in week 1....untill then i would rather they make there mistakes now......

in fact if he doesnt make any mistakes he could get really cocky against our defense then when it comes time to play a good defense he could choke horrendously.....i would rather him be kept honest by our defense so he learns to take care of the ball quickly in this new scheme.....

[CoachChaz]

Look at the difference in the learning curve. Orton comes in and learns a technical and complex version of the spread and Cutler goes into an offense run by most high schools. The players are not comparable and niether is either system.

[Fan in Exile]

It seems to me that at least part of this is just sensationalism. I mean it was an hour and a half long practice and he counts maybe eight plays that got boos. Only four passes from Orton that the crowd didn't like.

At the same time it wasn't the entire crowd that was booing it was just part of it. That is such a vague statement that it's meaningless. So what if 1,000 people booed.

I want real reporting tell me if it was a bad decision or if he was getting pressured or if Goodman made an awesome play. This is just pure crap, because the author decided the story was going to be about Orton failing.

[claymore]

The problem I have with it is that I dont believe our defense is that much better than last year. If Orton cant command the offense and drive down the field with this offense against our defense, we are in serious trouble.

[CoachChaz]

What if a receiver missed a timing route? What if our defense is a little better and more complex than last year? We dont know shit...at least not enough to decide our season is screwed because a QB had a bad scrimmage.

[Nomad]

Cutler threw an int to Urlacher this week.......

Just saying....

Booooo

Camp is one week old. Now is the time to make the mistakes and fix them.

Not worried


True! And I look at it this way, the defense is being aggressive!!

[Elevation inc]

What if a receiver missed a timing route? What if our defense is a little better and more complex than last year? We dont know shit...at least not enough to decide our season is screwed because a QB had a bad scrimmage.


good points...

the offense was really inconsistent there 1st week as well last year even with cutler, in fact our entire O didnt really gel untill week 3 of the preseason.....i can rember many people questioning cutlers timing, our rb's and the O-line.....

this becomes news if we start off 0-1 soley becasue of orton.....

[CoachChaz]

good points...

the offense was really inconsistent there 1st week as well last year even with cutler, in fact our entire O didnt really gel untill week 3 of the preseason.....i can rember many people questioning cutlers timing, our rb's and the O-line.....

this becomes news if we start off 0-1 soley becasue of orton.....

Even then I wont worry. If anyone is expecting miracles at any point in Year One...they are destined to be disappointed.

[Dortoh]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/Rydiculous/seinfield.gif

[NightTrainLayne]

Imagine this. . .

Shanny's not fired, and so Cutler and Slowik are still here.

We do the same scrimmage.

Fans are elated because Cutler is spot-on running the same system he has for the past 4 years, and Slowik is having our defense run that crappy, no-pressure, CB's 10 yards off the receiver so-called defense.

And everyone's happy. .. Things couldn't be better. . . Until we face a real team, that plays aggressive defense, or a team with a good offense (we've got just a few of those teams on our schedule this year).

That scenario wouldn't have drawn any boos, but I wouldn't be any more hopeful than I am now. In fact, even with the mistakes I still think the team as a whole is in a better spot. We might not do much this year, but we are positioned to grow and get better.

[BroncosSBBound]

bears TC has started, so keep your focus there, bringing your cutler man love over here is pointless....

Shouldn't that be "boy love"? (snicker)

[topscribe]

Look at the difference in the learning curve. Orton comes in and learns a technical and complex version of the spread and Cutler goes into an offense run by most high schools. The players are not comparable and niether is either system.

Thank you. It's good to be able to see it through the eyes of a coach.

I hope more people listen to you . . .

-----

[LRtagger]

The funniest thing about all of this is the way the media spins everything in Denver to make it negative.

All last year all we heard was how terrible the defense was...we all knew that. We couldnt create turnovers or get pressure on the QB.

Well, it looks like the defense is really improving and Orton made some bad throws including 2 that were INTs...nothing is said about Goodman and how he played great and was a good pickup...nothing has been said about Ayers generating pressure against Harris.

Now if Orton had absolutely shredded the defense yesterday for 5 TDs and 0 INTs, what do you think the stories today would be about? Would they be about how awesome Orton was and how this offense is going to score 30 points per game? No, it would have been about how McD has not improved the defense one bit and how we are going to give up even more points this year then last.

:wacko:

My take from yesterday is we have a defense that seems to be improved and a QB that is not yet comfortable in the system yet. I would say that is a fair assessment, but I guess that doesn't stir controversy.

[BroncoNut]

I was thinking similarly LtRagger.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

On a positive note, the defense had some takeaways... probably more than they managed all of last year. :D

[T.K.O.]

whats all the fuss ? thats fewer ints than cutler was tossing in our last three REAL games when a playoff spot was on the line.
i think its not the end of the world when our new qb in a whole new system with new recievers tosses a couple in a scrimmage....:laugh:

[MOtorboat]

Anybody tell you that I miss practice. If a coach say I miss practice and y’all hear it, then that’s that. I might have missed one practice this year, but if somebody say he doesn’t come to practice, it could be one practice, out of all the practices this year, that’s enough. If I can’t practice, I can’t practice. If I’m hurt, I’m hurt. Its as simple as that. It ain’t about that. It’s not about that at all, you know what I’m saying? But, it’s easy to talk about, it’s easy to sum it up when we just talk about practice. We sitting in here – I supposed to be the franchise player – and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we talkin’ about practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice. Not a game, not, not the game I go out there and die for, and play every game like its my last. Not the game, we talkin’ about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? We’re talking about practice. I know I supposed to be there, I know I supposed to lead by example. I know that, and I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important. I do. I honestly do. But, we talking about practice. What are we talking about? Practice? We talkin’ about practice man. We talkin’, we talkin’ about practice. We talkin’ about practice. We ain’t talkin’ about the game. We talkin’ about practice, man. When you come into an arena, and you see me play, you see me play, don’t you? (Absolutely) You see me give everything I got, right? (Absolutely) We talkin’ about practice right now. (But it’s an issue that your coach brought up.) Man, look, I hear you. It’s funny to me too. It’s strange to me too. But we talkin’ about practice, man. We’re not even talking about the game, the actual game, when it matters. (Inaudible practice question). How the hell can I make teammates better by practicing?

[Lonestar]

Look at the difference in the learning curve. Orton comes in and learns a technical and complex version of the spread and Cutler goes into an offense run by most high schools. The players are not comparable and niether is either system.



most folks forget the OC in Bear-ville was the coach @ IL who would only be interested in jay if he was to come to IL as a safety..

I suspect he is not a offensive Mensa..

FWIW if all he has to do is go deep all the time.. well he got 3.5 years to practice..

[Lonestar]

Now I have not read the thread so this might have been discussed before but IIRC on one of the Picks the WR fell down making a cut and had NO chance to make the reception giving the CB complete access to it..

I can hardly fault Orton if that indeed was the case..

[topscribe]

Now I have not read the thread so this might have been discussed before but IIRC on one of the Picks the WR fell down making a cut and had NO chance to make the reception giving the CB complete access to it..

I can hardly fault Orton if that indeed was the case..

Yes, one INT was a poory (miserably?) thrown pass. The other, the receiver slipped at the wrong time.

-----

[Ravage!!!]

lol already making excuses


well.. the truth is I'm not excited about Orton. I've made that pretty clear. This is one of the very few seasons I can EVER remember not being excited for the season (for the Broncos, I still absolutely love watching the NFL as a whole).

That being said... this practice doesn't mean anything. I watched that small you-tube, and the only thing I see is the confirmation that its going to be a LOT different watching our QB pass this season.

But a person doesn't have to be 'dead on' accurate for the deep ball. They just have to have that threat of going deep. Thats where Orton's arm is different than Cutlers, in regards to the deep pass. Cutler struggled to hit the deep pass last year. As much of a Cutler fan I am, I can admit he flat out STUNK at the deep ball. BUT, the safties and corners always knew he had the capability to beat you DEEP from anywhere on the field.... when in the pocket, rolling to you, or away from you. Thats a HUGE boon for an offense. That is NOT the case with Orton. Thus it brings the safeties in tighter, and coverages can "roll" more to the strong side because the know Orton is no way going to beat them on the backside.

So although we know that the deep ball doesn't come into "play" but once or twice a game, the "threat" of that deep ball can very much affect how a defense plays against you.

[topscribe]

lol already making excuses


well.. the truth is I'm not excited about Orton. I've made that pretty clear. This is one of the very few seasons I can EVER remember not being excited for the season (for the Broncos, I still absolutely love watching the NFL as a whole).

That being said... this practice doesn't mean anything. I watched that small you-tube, and the only thing I see is the confirmation that its going to be a LOT different watching our QB pass this season.

But a person doesn't have to be 'dead on' accurate for the deep ball. They just have to have that threat of going deep. Thats where Orton's arm is different than Cutlers, in regards to the deep pass. Cutler struggled to hit the deep pass last year. As much of a Cutler fan I am, I can admit he flat out STUNK at the deep ball. BUT, the safties and corners always knew he had the capability to beat you DEEP from anywhere on the field.... when in the pocket, rolling to you, or away from you. Thats a HUGE boon for an offense. That is NOT the case with Orton. Thus it brings the safeties in tighter, and coverages can "roll" more to the strong side because the know Orton is no way going to beat them on the backside.

So although we know that the deep ball doesn't come into "play" but once or twice a game, the "threat" of that deep ball can very much affect how a defense plays against you.

Generically, you make a lot of sense. However, you still are implying that
Orton does not have arm strength. He has plenty of arm strength; his problem
is accuracy. This is a matter of mechanics and plenty of practice. Looks as if
McDaniels is addressing the deep ball, so we'll see how that plays out, of
course.

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Appears Orton is not the only QB throwing interceptions in training camp:

http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/1702576/ShowThread.aspx


Jay Cutler Interceptions

Is it just the media trying to scare the life out of every Bears fan? Or is jay cutler legitimately passing a lot of interceptions? I haven't actually made it out to a practice, so I honestly don't know. All I know is the media shows a lot of his passes being picked off or knocked out of a receivers hand before it gets caught. Is the defense truly performing that well or what? I am just curious, watching all of these videos of Cutler's passes being intercepted worries me going into the season. Could someone shed some light on this for me? I would love if our defense was performing that well, but would also like to see our quarterback be a proficient passing threat, of course he's definitely better than Kyle Orton.

[Northman]

Appears Orton is not the only QB throwing interceptions in training camp:

http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/1702576/ShowThread.aspx


Jay Cutler Interceptions

Is it just the media trying to scare the life out of every Bears fan? Or is jay cutler legitimately passing a lot of interceptions? I haven't actually made it out to a practice, so I honestly don't know. All I know is the media shows a lot of his passes being picked off or knocked out of a receivers hand before it gets caught. Is the defense truly performing that well or what? I am just curious, watching all of these videos of Cutler's passes being intercepted worries me going into the season. Could someone shed some light on this for me? I would love if our defense was performing that well, but would also like to see our quarterback be a proficient passing threat, of course he's definitely better than Kyle Orton.


Im not really the Bears Guru on this board so ill let Ravage take this one.

[Shazam!]

Plummer and Cutler's INTs in regular season were never his fault, yet the Broncos are finished in training camp because Orton throws a few INTs.

McDaniels is the worst Coach ever without coaching a game, yet when Denver got shellacked at Detroit 41-7, how many called for Shanahan's head? Why, because he won two Super Bowls with one of or arguably the greatest QB of all time 10 years ago? That's somehow an excuse to let Denver's defense become the laughing stock of the League?

Gimme a ******* break. Some of you guys are ridiculous, and you know who you are. It's not even preseason yet.

[Ravage!!!]

Generically, you make a lot of sense. However, you still are implying that
Orton does not have arm strength. He has plenty of arm strength; his problem
is accuracy. This is a matter of mechanics and plenty of practice. Looks as if
McDaniels is addressing the deep ball, so we'll see how that plays out, of
course.

-----

Perhaps you are right. The knock on Orton is that he is good at the short routes, and really lacks on accuracy through the 15-20 yrd routs (and obviously further). You may feel thats foot mechanics and it may be, but it may also be that his arm strength just isn't really 'strong' enough to thread those needles at the NFL level. The holes are tighter in the NFL (obviously, I'm not telling you anything here) and if has to put that extra "umph" to try and get it there, that could be whats throwing off his footwork and accuracy.

I did buy the season of last year online (can't remember the service, you buy unlimited for one month to watch any nfl game) and watched quite a bit (not all the games) of Orton simply because I saw Tned mention he was going to do that after the trade. Thought it was a good idea. Anyway. Orton doesn't have a strong arm. I mean, its ok. Its adequate in most situations of course, but its those time when you need to thread it, or get it out wider, or get it off in a hurry with zip that he lacks.

The deep ball is really the last of my worries. As long as we can keep the safeties honest and the 8 man boxes to a minimum.

[Shazam!]

Denver won with Jake Plummer.

Man, he certainly had a howitzer for an arm.

After all, his nickname was Jake 'The Bullet' Plummer.

Wow.

Some here should go seek jobs in the NFL as QB Coaches.

[topscribe]

Perhaps you are right. The knock on Orton is that he is good at the short routes, and really lacks on accuracy through the 15-20 yrd routs (and obviously further). You may feel thats foot mechanics and it may be, but it may also be that his arm strength just isn't really 'strong' enough to thread those needles at the NFL level. The holes are tighter in the NFL (obviously, I'm not telling you anything here) and if has to put that extra "umph" to try and get it there, that could be whats throwing off his footwork and accuracy.

I did buy the season of last year online (can't remember the service, you buy unlimited for one month to watch any nfl game) and watched quite a bit (not all the games) of Orton simply because I saw Tned mention he was going to do that after the trade. Thought it was a good idea. Anyway. Orton doesn't have a strong arm. I mean, its ok. Its adequate in most situations of course, but its those time when you need to thread it, or get it out wider, or get it off in a hurry with zip that he lacks.

The deep ball is really the last of my worries. As long as we can keep the safeties honest and the 8 man boxes to a minimum.

In comparison to Cutler, no, Orton does not have a strong arm. But Orton has
shown he can chuck the ball as far as 74 yards. By contrast, Peyton Manning
could muster only 68 yards in the 2002 QB Challenge.

Yet Manning has shown to be competent with the deep ball. The difference,
then, is not arm strength. It is mechanics . . . it has to be.

What is encouraging is how much Orton is throwing deep in camp. It is a sign
that the coaches are working with him on it . . . well, I don't know that they
are, specifically, but that is a sign, right?

Well, we'll see how it all turns out. If Orton can go into the season showing
defenses that he can complete the deep one once in a while, that will help.

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

So, if we actually were stupid enough to gauge our regular season offense on last nights scrimmage, just how bad was it?

1)Would you say Orton completed roughly 50% of his passes, or can someone give an estimate?

2)Any TD's to go along with the 2 int's?

3)How was the running game?

4)Was the offense able to move the chains, or was it seriously just that ugly all the way around and throughout?

[Lonestar]

Generically, you make a lot of sense. However, you still are implying that
Orton does not have arm strength. He has plenty of arm strength; his problem
is accuracy. This is a matter of mechanics and plenty of practice. Looks as if
McDaniels is addressing the deep ball, so we'll see how that plays out, of
course.

-----

I think he is just average on the long ball..

[honz]

We're screwed. When is the 2010 Draft?

[topscribe]

I think he is just average on the long ball..

Oh, that's where you said it. :D

Well, that's all he needs to be, isn't it? Apparently, Orton isn't even up to
"average," yet . . . whatever that is. As I implied, I hope they're working on it.
It does look that way . . .

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