I despise Moreno

[weazel]

that is all

[Buff]

I agree (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/284452-Knowshon-Moreno-is-a-Below-Average-RB).

He is dead weight and has no redeeming qualities to this team. I wish we would have cut him after last season like we should have.

[slim]

I ride with Buff.

[SR]

I still maintain that he has the potential to be a solid third down back, but after that fumble lastnight I don't want to patiently wait for the light to turn on. I'm over him.

[slim]

He has no potential, for anything. He is useless.

[GEM]

I actually get angry when I hear his name or see his jersey. Hate is not a strong enough word. I hate him as much as I hate the word potential.

[SR]

I actually get angry when I hear his name or see his jersey. Hate is not a strong enough word. I hate him as much as I hate the word potential.

I will potentially beat you in fantasy football this week and you will hate it.

[Buff]

1580

[Army Bronco]

I hate that he has soiled Steve Atwater' s number!

[weazel]

1580

what a DB

[slim]

I bet his mom doesn't even like him.

[Buff]

I like how he celebrates after every decent sized gain too.

[GEM]

what a DB

You forgot....for 500, Alex.

[Northman]

I actually get angry when I hear his name or see his jersey. Hate is not a strong enough word. I hate him as much as I hate the word potential.

As much as the game pained me last night it was a bit hilarious for my wife. The minute Morono took the handoff i was screaming "Nooooooooo" and sure as **** enough he coughed it up. My wife was laughing at me because i was yelling at the tv so much during that.

[Chef Zambini]

I dont hate him, I just think he is a waste, have felt that way since his rookie year.
hillman willbe a dissapointment if he cant replace him, once healthy !

[DenBronx]

Knowsho.....you are dead to us.

[slim]

I wonder what's up with Hillman?

Dude needs to nut up.

[G_Money]

Blitz protection is a big deal, and rookies usually struggle. One of the reasons I was high on Forte a few years ago is that he could do it all coming out of college: run up the middle, hit the edge, catch passes, and just as importantly he could pass protect.

I dunno if Hillman is deficient there (most rooks are, as I said) but Moreno is deficient as a pass protector too and has had several years to (fail to) improve. Moreno drives me crazy. I never thought he'd be this inadequate at basic responsibilities, like getting a yard or holding onto the ball. He's killing me.

Put him out of my misery. The glaring differences between what McGahee brings and what Moreno flops around doing depress me. Moreno needs to get demoted down the depth chart immediately.

~G

[MOtorboat]

I love Moreno.

:sauced:

[silkamilkamonico]

Really do not like Moreno either. At this point I can't figure out who I hate more, him or dumpervil.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I was pissed about the fumble, because it was typical Moreno. But I was even more pissed about his run in the second half after being benched so long and he comes out and runs with both arms wrapped around the football right into the back of the Oline for a loss. I really just get pissed about everything he does. The reception out of the backfield was good, I guess.

[BroncoFanatic]

I'm sick of fumbles....period. Willis can't seem to go a game without one either

[slim]

I'm sick of fumbles....period. Willis can't seem to go a game without one either

You mean except for the game last night?

[rationalfan]

i despise this re-re-re-hashed anti-moreno sentiment.

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player. but it's beyond ridiculous that moreno is lambasted for every minor mistake while others aren't. i mean, did people call for mcgahee to be cut after his fumble against pittsburgh? same kind of play, but somehow moreno is worthless for making it while mcgahee just made a mistake. objectivity, try it.

also interesting/borderline hilarious: the belief that somehow hillman is better than moreno; despite the fact the coaches, who see him play every day in practice, have decided to use moreno and not hillman. i hope hillman develops into an all-pro, but after being inactive for two weeks it's pretty apparent he isn't the sproles clone some people say he is. at least, not yet.

[BroncoNut]

I actually get angry when I hear his name or see his jersey. Hate is not a strong enough word. I hate him as much as I hate the word potential.

your boobs made me stop to read this post, I never grow weary of them. They are like 2 magical mountains. but in response to the text specifially, by hating someone, you are really hurting yourself.

[Buff]

I've got to hand it to rationalfan - he might be the only person on the boards who can out-smug me on a consistent basis.

[weazel]

You forgot....for 500, Alex.

I notice that shirt isnt getting any wetter...

[Ravage!!!]

i despise this re-re-re-hashed anti-moreno sentiment.

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player. but it's beyond ridiculous that moreno is lambasted for every minor mistake while others aren't. i mean, did people call for mcgahee to be cut after his fumble against pittsburgh? same kind of play, but somehow moreno is worthless for making it while mcgahee just made a mistake. objectivity, try it.

also interesting/borderline hilarious: the belief that somehow hillman is better than moreno; despite the fact the coaches, who see him play every day in practice, have decided to use moreno and not hillman. i hope hillman develops into an all-pro, but after being inactive for two weeks it's pretty apparent he isn't the sproles clone some people say he is. at least, not yet.

after reading all this, I agree, Moreno sucks.

[BroncoNut]

bobby turner was busted for a DUI last night after the game. doesn't really surprise me becuase he was making all sorts of illegal turns during the game.

[Mike]

i despise this re-re-re-hashed anti-moreno sentiment.

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player. but it's beyond ridiculous that moreno is lambasted for every minor mistake while others aren't. i mean, did people call for mcgahee to be cut after his fumble against pittsburgh? same kind of play, but somehow moreno is worthless for making it while mcgahee just made a mistake. objectivity, try it.

also interesting/borderline hilarious: the belief that somehow hillman is better than moreno; despite the fact the coaches, who see him play every day in practice, have decided to use moreno and not hillman. i hope hillman develops into an all-pro, but after being inactive for two weeks it's pretty apparent he isn't the sproles clone some people say he is. at least, not yet.

McGahee does something positive during games...so he is given leeway. Right now most of us hope that Hillman is better because honestly how can he be any worse.

[weazel]

i despise this re-re-re-hashed anti-moreno sentiment.

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player. but it's beyond ridiculous that moreno is lambasted for every minor mistake while others aren't. i mean, did people call for mcgahee to be cut after his fumble against pittsburgh? same kind of play, but somehow moreno is worthless for making it while mcgahee just made a mistake. objectivity, try it.

also interesting/borderline hilarious: the belief that somehow hillman is better than moreno; despite the fact the coaches, who see him play every day in practice, have decided to use moreno and not hillman. i hope hillman develops into an all-pro, but after being inactive for two weeks it's pretty apparent he isn't the sproles clone some people say he is. at least, not yet.

I kind of despise this post

[Northman]

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player.

Bingo. Nailed it.

[Northman]

I've got to hand it to rationalfan - he might be the only person on the boards who can out-smug me on a consistent basis.

Yea, never get sick of his chest pumping. Reminds me a lot of Lex.

[weazel]

Yea, never get sick of his chest pumping. Reminds me a lot of Lex.

reminds me of the song, "I am woman, hear me roar"

[rationalfan]

I've got to hand it to rationalfan - he might be the only person on the boards who can out-smug me on a consistent basis.

this board is splattered with more smug than i or you produce. much more.

[GEM]

i despise this re-re-re-hashed anti-moreno sentiment.

of course, anyone can feel anyway they want about a given player. but it's beyond ridiculous that moreno is lambasted for every minor mistake while others aren't. i mean, did people call for mcgahee to be cut after his fumble against pittsburgh? same kind of play, but somehow moreno is worthless for making it while mcgahee just made a mistake. objectivity, try it.

also interesting/borderline hilarious: the belief that somehow hillman is better than moreno; despite the fact the coaches, who see him play every day in practice, have decided to use moreno and not hillman. i hope hillman develops into an all-pro, but after being inactive for two weeks it's pretty apparent he isn't the sproles clone some people say he is. at least, not yet.

McGahee gains 100 yards a game. At least he's just not plain out horrible at everything, like Moreno. Comparing apples to oranges here, Mr. Rational. ;) Moreno puts this team to a disadvantage every time he suits up. He's a multi-year player who never improves...so to compare him to a rook in Hillman is effing dumb. BTW....Hillman has injured hammies....what's Moreno's excuse. Kind of hard to prove anything when you can't play. He isn't playing because they are allowing him the time to heal and they trusted that until he could play, Moreno could fill the void....which he can't.

You know what I despise....this need to defend a player who sucks.

[rationalfan]

Yea, never get sick of his chest pumping. Reminds me a lot of Lex.

chest pumping? more like wallowing through the murk of hyperbole.

[Northman]

chest pumping? more like wallowing through the murk of hyperbole.

Keep telling yourself that. Your no different than anyone else on this board when it comes to praising and bashing players.

[rationalfan]

Comparing apples to oranges here, Mr. Rational. ;)

from chuck klosterman: “Apples and oranges aren't that different really. I mean they're both fruit. Their weight is extremely similar. They both contain acidic elements. They're both roughly spherical. They serve the same social purpose. With the possible exception of a tangerine I can't think of anything more similar to an orange than an apple.

[rationalfan]

Keep telling yourself that. Your no different than anyone else on this board when it comes to praising and bashing players.

seriously?

[GEM]

Hyperbole is defending a player who absolutely sucks. I mean what basis are you defending him? At least he can block....oops. At least he can hit holes....oops. At least he can hold onto the ball....oops. There is not much in his job description he is good at....moreso, things that he is not HORRIBLE at.

[GEM]

from chuck klosterman: “Apples and oranges aren't that different really. I mean they're both fruit. Their weight is extremely similar. They both contain acidic elements. They're both roughly spherical. They serve the same social purpose. With the possible exception of a tangerine I can't think of anything more similar to an orange than an apple.

Doesn't change the fact that Moreno sucks.

[rationalfan]

Hyperbole is defending a player who absolutely sucks. I mean what basis are you defending him? At least he can block....oops. At least he can hit holes....oops. At least he can hold onto the ball....oops. There is not much in his job description he is good at....moreso, things that he is not HORRIBLE at.

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.

[BroncoNut]

the only thing I could say to defend Moreno is that he really doesn't get that many touches and may have some type of confidence issue. He should be coached up or gotten rid of I guess. You can get rid of contract players. he doesn't have to stay the course if a deal is worked out. might lose some noney overall, but why not cut the losses. Whatever his issue, he doesn't seem to be good for this system anyway, can't disagree there.

[Northman]

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.

Here's a thought, its a messageboard. Maybe its you who should get over it.

[GEM]

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.


I don't know if I can lower expectations anymore. My only expectation is the coaching staff keeps him off the field. He won't do anything positive, I've come to understand this. But it's like accepting mediocrity and asking for more every time he steps foot on the field. No thanks.

[silkamilkamonico]

For the Moreno haters:

We all know the guy sucks and should be cut.

JE/JF seem to think somewhat highly of him and plans on continuing to use him above 2 other RB's on the roster we think are better. Moreno is so bad it has to take an idiot to not see that.

The question needs to be asked. Is this organization currently run by a bunch of idiots?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[GEM]

the only thing I could say to defend Moreno is that he really doesn't get that many touches and may have some type of confidence issue. He should be coached up or gotten rid of I guess. You can get rid of contract players. he doesn't have to stay the course if a deal is worked out. might lose some noney overall, but why not cut the losses. Whatever his issue, he doesn't seem to be good for this system anyway, can't disagree there.

He sucked when he was the 1st string RB so that excuse doesn't work. Send him Shanny's way.

[Buff]

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.

That's because he really IS that bad. He IS worse than advertised and has gotten the benefit of the doubt more than most NFL RBs ever get in a career. Not less. More. So I categorically reject your claim that he is overly criticized. If anything, he is under-criticized.

[GEM]

For the Moreno haters:

We all know the guy sucks and should be cut.

JE/JF seem to think somewhat highly of him and plans on continuing to use him above 2 other RB's on the roster we think are better. Moreno is so bad it has to take an idiot to not see that.

The question needs to be asked. Is this organization currently run by a bunch of idiots?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

I did ask my dad last night if he thought Moreno was messing around with Elway's daughter or something. What does the kid have on the powers that be that keeps him around.

[Northman]

I don't know if I can lower expectations anymore. My only expectation is the coaching staff keeps him off the field. He won't do anything positive, I've come to understand this. But it's like accepting mediocrity and asking for more every time he steps foot on the field. No thanks.

It would actually be a lot easier to move on if the team would just quit giving him chance after chance after chance only to see him flounder constantly.

[BroncoNut]

Gem, something tells me that you would be kindof a demanding and selfish lover. Please prove me wrong.

[slim]

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.

Lower my expectations? To what?

He can't hold on to the ball, pick up a blitz, or gain two yards when the line blocks it for two....should we expect less than this?

[GEM]

Gem, something tells me that you would be kindof a demanding and selfish lover. Please prove me wrong.


I can be very, very giving nut. But if you aren't doing it right, I will let you know.

[BroncoNut]

I can be very, very giving nut. But if you aren't doing it right, I will let you know.

that's your problem. we dont' need to know that.

[GEM]

that's your problem. we dont' need to know that.

Then you're doing it wrong.

[Northman]

I can be very, very giving nut. But if you aren't doing it right, I will let you know.

Hmmm, your very giving huh? Can you talk dirty a little more while i look at your avy? Please? :)

[Mike]

For the Moreno haters:

We all know the guy sucks and should be cut.

JE/JF seem to think somewhat highly of him and plans on continuing to use him above 2 other RB's on the roster we think are better. Moreno is so bad it has to take an idiot to not see that.

The question needs to be asked. Is this organization currently run by a bunch of idiots?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

I am not a hater, per se. I am over expecting anything truly productive out of him though and don't feel comfortable with him touching the ball. But I feel the same about Ball. Denver is just short on reliable RBs....which is what I expect is Moreno's saving grace in the FO.

As to the FO, they can make mistakes. They stuck with Orton well past bounds of rationality.

[MOtorboat]

Touchdown Moreno!

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Knowshon+Moreno+Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Denver+hLBev olnbb6l.jpg

[BroncoNut]

Hmmm, your very giving huh? Can you talk dirty a little more while i look at your avy? Please? :)

go jerk it somewhere else north

[BroncoNut]

Then you're doing it wrong.

that's what she said

[Dzone]

Hate is too strong a word to attach to a football player, but "really shitty running back" seems to fit Moreno just fine.

[Northman]

He's an underachiever and if not for his first round status of where he was drafted he would be cut already.

[silkamilkamonico]

This entire Moreno debacle is really making me starting to question the level of skill assessment from JE/JF and the rest of the front office. This might be a bad thing moving towards the future of this organization.

[BroncoNut]

He's an underachiever and if not for his first round status of where he was drafted he would be cut already.

what does the first round status have to do with it. He's a bust, so what? move on

[Northman]

This entire Moreno debacle is really making me starting to question the level of skill assessment from JE/JF and the rest of the front office. This might be a bad thing moving towards the future of this organization.

So what team will you root for now?

[Mike]

This entire Moreno debacle is really making me starting to question the level of skill assessment from JE/JF and the rest of the front office. This might be a bad thing moving towards the future of this organization.

Maybe Moreno fetches a mean cup of coffee?

[slim]

This entire Moreno debacle is really making me starting to question the level of skill assessment from JE/JF and the rest of the front office. This might be a bad thing moving towards the future of this organization.

Moreno gives us the best chance to win.

[Northman]

what does the first round status have to do with it. He's a bust, so what? move on

Has a lot to do with it actually. Take Hillis for instance. Drafted in the 7th round yet has around the same numbers as Moreno yet teams dont think twice about cutting/trading him. Fact is, no team wants to admit when they made a mistake taking a first round player so thus they will force the triangle into the circle until they simple cant do it anymore or find someone who will surplant said player.

[Buff]

Maybe Moreno fetches a mean cup of coffee?

Is that a euphemism?

[BroncoNut]

Has a lot to do with it actually. Take Hillis for instance. Drafted in the 7th round yet has around the same numbers as Moreno yet teams dont think twice about cutting/trading him. Fact is, no team wants to admit when they made a mistake taking a first round player so thus they will force the triangle into the circle until they simple cant do it anymore or find someone who will surplant said player.

I dont' quite understand. is it a pride thing? is that what you are saying? 1st round busts happen all the time.

[slim]

Well, RF and MO both have hardons for Moreno. I think we can all agree about that.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Maybe he does really well at practice? It kept Orton in a job for years between Chicago and Denver...

[Mike]

Is that a euphemism?

Negged for making me reach for a dictionary. Take your highfalutin words away from me Buffalo.

[BroncoNut]

Maybe he does really well at practice? It kept Orton in a job for years between Chicago and Denver...

:shrugs: I dont' know. maybe they're shopping him now?

[BroncoNut]

Negged for making me reach for a dictionary. Take your highfalutin words away from me Buffalo.

kinda surprised you don't know what a euphamism is. you come off as pretty smart, but i guess you're really not

[Mike]

kinda surprised you don't know what a euphamism is. you come off as pretty smart, but i guess you're really not

Good thing I have devilish good looks to get me by in this rough old world.

[slim]

Good thing I have devilish good looks to get me by in this rough old world.

Your firm ass is legendary in the workout thread.

[Ravage!!!]

hyperbole is also demeaning a player who isn't as bad as you think he is.

and, i'm not as much defending moreno (really? calling him "average" is defending him?) as complaining about the chorus of people who act like anything he does is a sin. people, get over it. he's not a superstar. we know this. lower the expectations and move on. damn.

The only people this would bother, would be the ones that have a need/desire/feeling to defend him. If you don't have a need/desire/feeling to defend him, why would you care so much about how other people view him? I mean, really? He's not good, and as a result, he's not liked. He's not good, therefore, he isn't given the leeway that McGahee is. DO you think we would give just ANY QB the benefit of the doubt if they threw 3 INTs???

I suppose you are hoping for more of the.... "gosh darn, man. He's just not as good as I want him to be and I wish he would work harder, and be better, than we had hoped. That sure would be swell. But, alas, he's not. Probably just not born with the proper genetics that would require him to be successful at this level of football. I guess we, as Bronco fans, can just wish harder that further 1st round draft picks will succeed at a much higher rate and achieve a greater plain of excellence."

[Mike]

Your firm ass is legendary in the workout thread.

It's the squats and dumbell lunges.

[BroncoNut]

Good thing I have devilish good looks to get me by in this rough old world.

yeah. my dad always used to say on good looks: here today and gone tommorrow. I suggest you might develop a bit more smarts young man

[BroncoJoe]

I am completely indifferent on Moreno. Keep him, cut him, I don't really care.

[Mike]

yeah. my dad always used to say on good looks: here today and gone tommorrow. I suggest you might develop a bit more smarts young man

Fat, drunk, and....I would rather take the Flounder path.

[Rick]

Moreno HAS to be on his way out.

3 carries, 2 yards and a fumble...

We need a backup bad. If that backup is Hillman then so be it, get him on the field, but we really need a guy that can come in and actually spell Willis.

[Dzone]

They should cut Moreno. He's no good. Period.

[slim]

I am completely indifferent on Moreno. Keep him, cut him, I don't really care.

As long as they don't play him, I guess can get on board with that.

[Northman]

Touchdown Moreno!

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Knowshon+Moreno+Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Denver+hLBev olnbb6l.jpg

Only one problem, no football as usual. :laugh:

[Northman]

I dont' quite understand. is it a pride thing? is that what you are saying? 1st round busts happen all the time.

Indeed they do. However with the money invested (at least before this year) organizations are not too quick to pull the trigger until they know for certain that said player is just garbage.

[MOtorboat]

Only one problem, no football as usual. :laugh:

Thats because he already scored, beotches!

Wut, wut!

:sauced:

[Nomad]

I am completely indifferent on Moreno. Keep him, cut him, I don't really care.

Agree!

But as silk said, the coaches must like him or want to get their money's worth. He was a 'WTF' pick at #12 but he did really good in college and I was hoping it translated into the NFL.
Also, I expect him to get better under Manning. Last night was a debacle for the whole team.

[Northman]

Thats because he already scored, beotches!

Wut, wut!

:sauced:

lmao

[jhildebrand]

If we are going to keep him then start lining him up in the slot and out wide on plays. Two back sets and sneak him into the flats. That could have been done last night all night long. Handing him the ball only turns into an espisode of soul train or dancing with the stars. Truth be told I prefer we cut him and start practice squad shopping for DT'/LBs to promote to the starting roster. Anything, literally anything, would be better.

[jhildebrand]

lower the expectations and move on. damn.

What? :confused: Why? :confused: He was the #12 overall pick before guys like Orakpo, Matthews, Ziggy Hood, et al. #12 picks need to produce. Your first round picks need to be on the field and producing right away! That was always a main argument against a QB who is no longer here: He was a #1 and needed to be on the field and ready. Same holds true for Moreno. He lacks focus and continues to make poor decisions. He doesn't even bother to work on ball security which just means he is LAZY.

[rationalfan]

Sometimes these Moreno threads feel the comments section on political news stories.

The views on Moreno, and this thread, have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I'm part of the mess.

[Dapper Dan]

So here's the stats:

Averages 4.75 yards every time he touches the ball

He gets a touchdown every 30.6 touches

He fumbles every 68.88 touches

[BeefStew25]

Sometimes these Moreno threads feel the comments section on political news stories.

The views on Moreno, and this thread, have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I'm part of the mess.

I say remove yourself from this gawd awful cesspool.

[Simple Jaded]

from chuck klosterman: “Apples and oranges aren't that different really. I mean they're both fruit. Their weight is extremely similar. They both contain acidic elements. They're both roughly spherical. They serve the same social purpose. With the possible exception of a tangerine I can't think of anything more similar to an orange than an apple.Ya know the saying I don't get? "You want to have your cake and eat it too".......of course I wanna eat my cake, why wouldn't I wanna eat my cake? I like cake.......l like cake but I don't like it enough to just look at it. If I can't eat my cake then I don't want the F'n cake.......

[Simple Jaded]

Maybe somebody could correct me but on the drive before the last TD I coulda swore Manning was talking to Slowshon and pointing straight at William Moore, who would sack Manning after coming in untouched while Moreno went left.

It coulda been a typical Manning bluff but it looked like he was telling Moreno who to block and Moreno blew it. Moreno is solid as a receiver but I have no idea where he stole this reputation as a great blocker.......

[NorCalBronco7]

Agreed. He can suck my left nut.

[MOtorboat]

So here's the stats:

Averages 4.75 yards every time he touches the ball

He gets a touchdown every 30.6 touches

He fumbles every 68.88 touches

Yup.

[Army Bronco]

I actually get angry when I hear his name or see his jersey. Hate is not a strong enough word. I hate him as much as I hate the word potential.

As much as the game pained me last night it was a bit hilarious for my wife. The minute Morono took the handoff i was screaming "Nooooooooo" and sure as **** enough he coughed it up. My wife was laughing at me because i was yelling at the tv so much during that. Lol, i do the same thing.. Whenever No-gain Moreno is in I yell "nooo, what are you doin Fox" . That dude cant block, rarely passes the line of scrimmage with the ball on runs. I think its time McDog nuts take him to NE and away from our team.

[Pudge]

I'm usually on the same page as everyone on this board but you guys are critizing him for one game, he got us a touch down a week ago no one complained about that. He averaged 4.8 ypc last year and 4.3 the year before that. Which is on par with marshawn lynch, maybe even better. Injuries have plagued him. He coughs up one ball, (still has six less than Adrian petersons first four seasons) that imo we recovered, and you all condemn him. Let's ignore the three picks by the goat... I hate to be this guy but I guess I'm going to be that guy

[ShaneFalco]

Sauced

[Northman]

I'm usually on the same page as everyone on this board but you guys are critizing him for one game, he got us a touch down a week ago no one complained about that. He averaged 4.8 ypc last year and 4.3 the year before that. Which is on par with marshawn lynch, maybe even better. Injuries have plagued him. He coughs up one ball, (still has six less than Adrian petersons first four seasons) that imo we recovered, and you all condemn him. Let's ignore the three picks by the goat... I hate to be this guy but I guess I'm going to be that guy

Emmm, no.

[Jsteve01]

Look I was calling for Moreno to be cut, but if you don't think 2 games in that Manning's constant play changes combined with the no huddle are contributing to some of this craziness then you've got your head in the sand. You don't just start running a new offense as complicated as this one and change plays like most people change underwear without it taking some time to adjust.

[BroncoJoe]

Honestly, I'm still waiting for the guy to do something to warrant my support of him - beyond wearing Orange and Blue.

Still waiting...

[Mike]

Honestly, I'm still waiting for the guy to do something to warrant my support of him - beyond wearing Orange and Blue.

Still waiting...

He'll flash....and then get injured.

[Dzone]

Disappointing. He could have been the first great Italian running back since Francos Italian army:tsk:

[Army Bronco]

The problem i see with him is that there were days when he looked elite. Like when he ran over the Chiefs a year or so ago. Rhen there were disasters and days when he danced at the LOS. Then of course he would break a toe nail and hes out

[weazel]

Lower my expectations? To what?

He can't hold on to the ball, pick up a blitz, or gain two yards when the line blocks it for two....should we expect less than this?

maybe we should start expecting him to run backwards?

[Simple Jaded]

I'm usually on the same page as everyone on this board but you guys are critizing him for one game, he got us a touch down a week ago no one complained about that. He averaged 4.8 ypc last year and 4.3 the year before that. Which is on par with marshawn lynch, maybe even better. Injuries have plagued him. He coughs up one ball, (still has six less than Adrian petersons first four seasons) that imo we recovered, and you all condemn him. Let's ignore the three picks by the goat... I hate to be this guy but I guess I'm going to be that guyWho is ignoring Manning's picks? The only reason they're not mentioned in this particular thread is because this thread is about how the OP despises Moreno, and that's all. And I quote; "I despise Moreno, that is all".

Btw, the only thing Moreno has in common with Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson is their profession, if you want people to take your argument seriously you should aim lower.......

[Gimpygod]

from chuck klosterman: “Apples and oranges aren't that different really. I mean they're both fruit. Their weight is extremely similar. They both contain acidic elements. They're both roughly spherical. They serve the same social purpose. With the possible exception of a tangerine I can't think of anything more similar to an orange than an apple.

i hate quasi- intellectual bs posted by people who think, incorrectly, they are smart. Which orange makes the best apple pie? Fortunately this quote, although ridiculous, is still twice as useful as Knoshow.

[BroncoNut]

Indeed they do. However with the money invested (at least before this year) organizations are not too quick to pull the trigger until they know for certain that said player is just garbage.
Please don't spar with me Northman. It's apparent that you really don't have an answer to my questions.

[Chef Zambini]

hey GG good to hear from you!
wow, takes a brave soul to call out chuck K !
bravo!
hello chuck, while there are similarities between apples and oranges, hence the cliche comparison, they are dramaticly different !
nutrients, color, cooking applications, texture, peel, growing season etc
apples and oranges cliche for a reason !

[Chef Zambini]

Look I was calling for Moreno to be cut, but if you don't think 2 games in that Manning's constant play changes combined with the no huddle are contributing to some of this craziness then you've got your head in the sand. You don't just start running a new offense as complicated as this one and change plays like most people change underwear without it taking some time to adjust.let me know when you se a player change his underwear at the LOS in front of 60thousand live and millions on TV!
soling their underwear, yes, changing it... let me know.
for what, FOUR YEARS NOW, people continue to make excuses for KMs sub-par performances.
he stinks!
we all pray hillman, once healthy can push him to a permanent place on the sidelines ( and eventually out of town)
KM was JMCD very firsty draft pick, he was destined to FAIL !
I dont hate the guy,
' i have never called him worthless,
just incompetent, dissapointing and a poor value !

[BroncoNut]

I'm usually on the same page as everyone on this board but you guys are critizing him for one game, he got us a touch down a week ago no one complained about that. He averaged 4.8 ypc last year and 4.3 the year before that. Which is on par with marshawn lynch, maybe even better. Injuries have plagued him. He coughs up one ball, (still has six less than Adrian petersons first four seasons) that imo we recovered, and you all condemn him. Let's ignore the three picks by the goat... I hate to be this guy but I guess I'm going to be that guy

kinda agree with you antoniobrady. it's not really fair.

[slim]

kinda agree with you antoniobrady. it's not really fair.

People need a whipping boy, Nut. You know that.

[Chef Zambini]

Moreno gives us the best chance to win.this is an example of why we need a specail sarcasm color for blatantly sarcastic posts !

[BroncoNut]

People need a whipping boy, Nut. You know that.

Ispose, still doesnt' make it right though.

[Simple Jaded]

The more I watch that play that ended Denver's second to last drive the more I'm convinced Moreno screwed the pooch. Clady chips on the RDE and then breaks off to block the blitzing LB that Moreno picks up, meanwhile Manning is getting sacked by the player Manning is pointing at when talking to Moreno before the snap.

Manning gets up with arms out as if to say "WTF?". This was 3rd and 8 in 4 down territory, resulted in a punt.

Could Joseph Addia be an option?.......

[G_Money]

Moreno gets called out because of his huge draft status and yes, talent level. If Lance Ball, undrafted free agent making very little money, happens to have success, then great. More than we expected. If he fails, well, that's why he's the backup.

Moreno should be the starter. He was drafted and paid to be the starter, but he can't be because his failings as a back (poor vision, no leg drive, bad pass protection skills, inconsistent hands, no top gear, etc) outweigh his strengths (none of which come to mind at the moment).

Moreno has more talent than Ball, but Ball is more consistent on the field. At some point I care less about talent than production and consistency. If Ball and Moreno produce the same, but Ball has consistency while Moreno either gets 5 yards or zero yards, then on third and one I want the guy who will get me the one yard - and we can't rely on Moreno for that.

Unreliable, highly paid (23 mil counts as highly-paid) players who make stupid decisions on and off the field aren't gonna win friends and influence people. And more to the point, watching Knowshon get QBs killed in the pre-season and now in the regular season means his on-field time is gonna get more and more limited.

Peyton won't play you if you can't keep his jersey clean. It's pretty simple at that point. He's had RBs who couldn't get yards or catch balls, but if they can't help him get extra time to complete passes to those who CAN get yards and pass balls, then they're out.

Moreno's trying to Tatum Bell his way down the depth chart. If Hillman also ascends via merit, then that's fine. If not, our backfield could quickly become a mess, and I don't wanna see that.

~G

[Buff]

Moreno gets called out because of his huge draft status and yes, talent level. If Lance Ball, undrafted free agent making very little money, happens to have success, then great. More than we expected. If he fails, well, that's why he's the backup.

Moreno should be the starter. He was drafted and paid to be the starter, but he can't be because his failings as a back (poor vision, no leg drive, bad pass protection skills, inconsistent hands, no top gear, etc) outweigh his strengths (none of which come to mind at the moment).

Moreno has more talent than Ball, but Ball is more consistent on the field. At some point I care less about talent than production and consistency. If Ball and Moreno produce the same, but Ball has consistency while Moreno either gets 5 yards or zero yards, then on third and one I want the guy who will get me the one yard - and we can't rely on Moreno for that.

Unreliable, highly paid (23 mil counts as highly-paid) players who make stupid decisions on and off the field aren't gonna win friends and influence people. And more to the point, watching Knowshon get QBs killed in the pre-season and now in the regular season means his on-field time is gonna get more and more limited.

Peyton won't play you if you can't keep his jersey clean. It's pretty simple at that point. He's had RBs who couldn't get yards or catch balls, but if they can't help him get extra time to complete passes to those who CAN get yards and pass balls, then they're out.

Moreno's trying to Tatum Bell his way down the depth chart. If Hillman also ascends via merit, then that's fine. If not, our backfield could quickly become a mess, and I don't wanna see that.

~G

Pretty well summed up, G... Except I I think production and consistency both fall under the talent umbrella. If Ball has more of both, he is by definition more talented than Moreno. That is where I keep getting hung up - people want to consistently remind me of Moreno's potential and talent - when frankly I don't think he has much of either.

[MOtorboat]

Are we talking about the same Lance Ball that has 660 yards in five NFL seasons?

[BroncoNut]

Are we talking about the same Lance Ball that has 660 yards in five NFL seasons?

in very limited play. remember mike ball? whatever happened to him?

[slim]

Mike Bell. He is dancing at the blue iguana.

[Dzone]

You now Moreno is bad when people breathe a sigh of relief when he goes out and Lance Ball comes in

[Simple Jaded]

The more I watch that play that ended Denver's second to last drive the more I'm convinced Moreno screwed the pooch. Clady chips on the RDE and then breaks off to block the blitzing LB that Moreno picks up, meanwhile Manning is getting sacked by the player Manning is pointing at when talking to Moreno before the snap.

Manning gets up with arms out as if to say "WTF?". This was 3rd and 8 in 4 down territory, resulted in a punt.

Could Joseph Addia be an option?.......Shit, wasn't even Moreno. Nevermind.......

[rationalfan]

Moreno gets called out because of his huge draft status and yes, talent level. If Lance Ball, undrafted free agent making very little money, happens to have success, then great. More than we expected. If he fails, well, that's why he's the backup.

Moreno should be the starter. He was drafted and paid to be the starter, but he can't be because his failings as a back (poor vision, no leg drive, bad pass protection skills, inconsistent hands, no top gear, etc) outweigh his strengths (none of which come to mind at the moment).

Moreno has more talent than Ball, but Ball is more consistent on the field. At some point I care less about talent than production and consistency. If Ball and Moreno produce the same, but Ball has consistency while Moreno either gets 5 yards or zero yards, then on third and one I want the guy who will get me the one yard - and we can't rely on Moreno for that.

Unreliable, highly paid (23 mil counts as highly-paid) players who make stupid decisions on and off the field aren't gonna win friends and influence people. And more to the point, watching Knowshon get QBs killed in the pre-season and now in the regular season means his on-field time is gonna get more and more limited.

Peyton won't play you if you can't keep his jersey clean. It's pretty simple at that point. He's had RBs who couldn't get yards or catch balls, but if they can't help him get extra time to complete passes to those who CAN get yards and pass balls, then they're out.

Moreno's trying to Tatum Bell his way down the depth chart. If Hillman also ascends via merit, then that's fine. If not, our backfield could quickly become a mess, and I don't wanna see that.

~G

good points. but george foster never got called out like moreno. neither did jarvis moss. or ashley lelie (though, certain people loved ripping on him). or willie middlebrooks.

they're all denver first round draft picks who had high expectations of talent and production, and they all fell well short of those expectations while being well compensated. yet, moreno's treated like the football equivalent of a pedophile while they were simple "bad players" or "over-drafted" or whatever.

some of you think i'm trying to defend moreno. moreso, i'm quite fascinated by the level of hate he attracts. it's unnatural.

personally, i think he's the crucible through which all of the fans' mcd hate/frustration flows. that's my read.

[slim]

good points. but george foster never got called out like moreno. neither did jarvis moss. or ashley lelie (though, certain people loved ripping on him). or willie middlebrooks.

they're all denver first round draft picks who had high expectations of talent and production, and they all fell well short of those expectations while being well compensated. yet, moreno's treated like the football equivalent of a pedophile while they were simple "bad players" or "over-drafted" or whatever.

some of you think i'm trying to defend moreno. moreso, i'm quite fascinated by the level of hate he attracts. it's unnatural.

personally, i think he's the crucible through which all of the fans' mcd hate/frustration flows. that's my read.

What are you talking about? All of those players have been the butt of jokes on these message boards for years. How can you say no one has called them out?

[Buff]

good points. but george foster never got called out like moreno. neither did jarvis moss. or ashley lelie (though, certain people loved ripping on him). or willie middlebrooks.

they're all denver first round draft picks who had high expectations of talent and production, and they all fell well short of those expectations while being well compensated. yet, moreno's treated like the football equivalent of a pedophile while they were simple "bad players" or "over-drafted" or whatever.

some of you think i'm trying to defend moreno. moreso, i'm quite fascinated by the level of hate he attracts. it's unnatural.

personally, i think he's the crucible through which all of the fans' mcd hate/frustration flows. that's my read.

Your first sentence is patently false. First round picks are always scrutinized at a higher level, and none of those guys were immune. Perhaps a LT isn't going to be as scrutinized as intensely as a RB, but that doesn't mean they weren't criticized frequently.

I freely admit my disdain for Moreno has reached unhealthy levels... But its partly (IMO) because people defend him so blindly based on nothing but his draft slot, which has caused me to become more entrenched in my position. I personally don't understand why people go to such lengths to look for stats that might disprove what seems to be a common sense evaluation. You say the criticism has gone overboard, I say people have become irrational in their defense of him.

[echobravo]

Ah NO-SHOW, makes me hearken back to the salad days of Gaston Greene, or maybe it was Tony Dorsett:)

[slim]

Ah NO-SHOW, makes me hearken back to the salad days of Gaston Greene, or maybe it was Tony Dorsett:)

Salad days is a very underused phrase.

For that, I salute you. :salute:

[G_Money]

Ayers, Foster and Moss didn't have a ball in their hands. Neither did Middlebrooks. On defense, unless you're being obviously picked apart, it's hard to tell whether you're being effectively blocked/stifled or if you're just plain bad because the camera doesn't stay on you.

It stays on Moreno, so we can see with every play how badly he is performing relative to his draft status and expected impact. I was a Moss hater from the start (I believe I blew a gasket in the draft thread back on the Freak) but we play a rotational DL - he wasn't in there that much to be taken advantage of. When Moreno puts it on the ground or loses two on third-and-one or runs right by the blitzer about to kill his QB without so much as a By-Your-Leave, then it's salt in an open wound.

We're already pissed off about Knowshon, and every time he appears I grit my teeth and wait to have bamboo shoved under my fingernails. That's not how I like to watch my team play. The anticipation is as bad as the eventual failure. With Moss, I might not even know he's on the field until he fails - that's half my pain gone right there. And even if he fails, maybe a LB or another DL makes a great play to "fix" the situation.

When Moreno fails, he's on an island - there's nobody to pick up the slack.

He's just frustrating to watch, even when I'm just watching Steve Atwater's cherished number jog out into the offensive huddle. I'm hoping this is the last year I have to suffer that.

~G

[slim]

Not to mention that Moss and Middlebrooks were never starters (and rarely saw the field).

Kind of hard to bitch about a guys performance when he isn't even performing.

[slim]

Not to mention that Moss and Middlebrooks were never starters (and rarely saw the field).

Kind of hard to bitch about a guys performance when he isn't even performing.

And yet we still talked a lot of shit about them :salute:

[rationalfan]

Your first sentence is patently false. First round picks are always scrutinized at a higher level, and none of those guys were immune. Perhaps a LT isn't going to be as scrutinized as intensely as a RB, but that doesn't mean they weren't criticized frequently.

I freely admit my disdain for Moreno has reached unhealthy levels... But its partly (IMO) because people defend him so blindly based on nothing but his draft slot, which has caused me to become more entrenched in my position. I personally don't understand why people go to such lengths to look for stats that might disprove what seems to be a common sense evaluation. You say the criticism has gone overboard, I say people have become irrational in their defense of him.

first, my first line isn't "patently false." your interpretation is. my point is these other busts aren't criticized at the same level as moreno. i would argue that's quite true.

when you reference people defending moreno it's like you're suggesting people treat him as a star because of his draft status? but even the people who calmly compliment him admit he's underwhelmed. remember, there's a difference between celebrating a player and objectively critiquing a player.


He's just frustrating to watch, even when I'm just watching Steve Atwater's cherished number jog out into the offensive huddle. I'm hoping this is the last year I have to suffer that.

this is a very interesting comment. is there disdain for moreno because he's wearing atwater's number? truthfully, is that part of the issue for a lot of people? i've never considered that.

[Ravage!!!]

this is a very interesting comment. is there disdain for moreno because he's wearing atwater's number? truthfully, is that part of the issue for a lot of people? i've never considered that.

Not for me, I never considered it. Its his lousy play that causes my dislike for him. That and, despite it not being his fault, he's aweful for a 1st round pick. If he played a position where it wasn't common to see 4th -5th-6th round players contribute as much as he has, on a much more regular basis, then perhaps his 1st round contributions wouldn't be so criticized. But if you are a RB, taken in the first round, you BETTER be damned special..... and he is absolutely NOT special.

[weazel]

And yet we still talked a lot of shit about them :salute:

and they are no longer here... no-show still is

[slim]

and they are no longer here... no-show still is

Well, we are clearly not talking enough shit about former first round busts. I think RF is right about that.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I don't care if Moreno is average, above average or below average. I don't care what his draft position is or how he performs in relation to it. I don't care about what his stats show or don't show about is performance or lack of performance.

All I know is when I see him on the field I get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, I can't explain it and don't really care to find out why. I don't get this feeling because he's wearing Atwater's old number.

All I know is I want him to go away, maybe we can trade him to the bares.

His latest fumble was the last straw for me, I am done, can't wait to see him in another teams or no other teams uni.

[Dapper Dan]

Obviously, John Elway, John Fox, and the rest of the organization are blind idiots for allowing such an awful player to touch the ball. Knowshon literally runs backwards and fumbles every single time he touches the ball. How can we trust anyone who allows a player like that on the field? Without a doubt, if Moreno plays another down, Elway, Fox, and who old crew has to go.

[Nomad]

Obviously, John Elway, John Fox, and the rest of the organization are blind idiots for allowing such an awful player to touch the ball. Knowshon literally runs backwards and fumbles every single time he touches the ball. How can we trust anyone who allows a player like that on the field? Without a doubt, if Moreno plays another down, Elway, Fox, and who old crew has to go.

You should of wrote that in yellow! :couch: :D

[Dapper Dan]

You should of wrote that in yellow! :couch: :D
Sheet. The only color I heard was red. Someone said red.

[Cane]

Eh Moreno has some big play ability. He did have that big catch that lead to a TD after he made some guys miss and get to the goaline. I think he is a decent back.

[ShaneFalco]

bored at school
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg208/scaled.php?server=208&filename=12781knowshonmoreno.jpg&res=landing

[Timmy!]

I hereby proclaim Buff as right about Moreno.

[Buff]

I hereby proclaim Buff as right about Moreno.

If you and Slim are on board that's enough for me. Now I just need you guys to convince (ir)rational fan.

[Simple Jaded]

Btw, there is no way on Gods green earth that Atlanta recovered Moreno's fumble, the overhead camera shot proves it.......

[ShaneFalco]

this sig is starting to creep me out for some reason, moreno always staring at me. Like i wronged him. I imagine him saying "Hey man, why did you do me like this?"

[MOtorboat]

Thankfully, Fox and Elway aren't as stupid as the fans.

[Dzone]

This is a lot like the last days of Orton, when there was only a couple people left defending him lol

[ShaneFalco]

i miss orton sigs....

the bearded boy wonder...

[Poet]

The thing is, Moreno is better than Terrell Davis.

[shank]

screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeech!!!!

[capt. Jack]

Maybe he can switch to defense!

[Dzone]

Laurence Maroney is better than Moreno. Moreno is actually a clone of Maroney. Thats 2 rbs that Mcdouche was in love with
How much do you want to bet Moreno will end up playing and sucking for the McPatriots?

[Army Bronco]

The thing is, Moreno is better than Terrell Davis. but is he better than Sammy Winder and Steve Sewell were?

[BroncoNut]

The thing is, Moreno is better than Terrell Davis.

I don't know if I'd go quite that far just yet

[Army Bronco]

The thing is, Moreno is better than Terrell Davis.

I don't know if I'd go quite that far just yet Borderline blasphemy isn't it.

[Poet]

On second thought, Terrell Davis sucks and so does Moreno.

[SR]

On second thought, Terrell Davis sucks and so does Moreno.

You go to hell. And you die. I hope Andy Dalton contracts syphilis.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Poet]

You go to hell. And you die. I hope Andy Dalton contracts syphilis.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Impossible. No one bangs male gingers.

[SR]

Impossible. No one bangs male gingers.

When said ginger's income is in the millions of dollars chicks will bang him and when they do I hope he contracts an STD so bad he can't play

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Poet]

When said ginger's income is in the millions of dollars chicks will bang him and when they do I hope he contracts an STD so bad he can't play

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

This is proof that Seeing Red is secretly Andy Dalton and Andy Dalton hates himself as a person. And playing in Cincinnati.

[SR]

This is proof that Seeing Red is secretly Andy Dalton and Andy Dalton hates himself as a person. And playing in Cincinnati.

Hey dipshit. We're Facebook friends. You know I'm not Andy Dalton. But IF I were Andy Dalton I would DEFINITELY hate playing in Cincinasti

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Poet]

Hey dipshit. We're Facebook friends. You know I'm not Andy Dalton. But IF I were Andy Dalton I would DEFINITELY hate playing in Cincinasti

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Whatever you say, Dalton!

[Army Bronco]

Hey dipshit. We're Facebook friends. You know I'm not Andy Dalton. But IF I were Andy Dalton I would DEFINITELY hate playing in Cincinasti

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Whatever you say, Dalton! Whos Andy Dalton??

[Poet]

Yo mama.

[Northman]

Whos Dalton??

http://www.steadyburn.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/swayze_roadhouse.jpg

[Army Bronco]

Whos Dalton??

http://www.steadyburn.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/swayze_roadhouse.jpg Rrrrrrrroad House!

[Army Bronco]

Yo mama. Yeah, probably so. The last time the bengals had a male as a QB was Boomer Esiaison.

[Poet]

I'm not sure if you're aware of who David Klingler was, because he was an awful bust, but he was a man. Seeing Red is yo mama.

Boomer is a douche.

[slim]

Boomer sucks.

[Dzone]

Marinaro sucks. If I see that guy carry the ball one more time I swear Im going to p-uke

[MOtorboat]

I'm not sure if you're aware of who David Klingler was, because he was an awful bust, but he was a man. Seeing Red is yo mama.

Boomer is a douche.

David Klingler...:pound:

Just the mere mention of his name should bring in to perspective that Moreno isn't even close to a bust...

[Cugel]

It will be interesting to see if Moreno gets cut this season. The Broncos are going to have to trim 2 players from the 53 man roster when Virgil Green and DJ Williams come off suspension.

IF they felt comfortable using Ronnie Hillman in pass-protection Knowshon might already be gone. But, that's not going to last forever. They drafted Hillman to replace Knowshon. They have similar styles of running, similar skills, except Hillman is younger and faster, and Knowshon is a better pass-blocker right now.

It's simply a question of time before they give Hillman a chance to be McGahee's primary backup.

With 2 fumbles in 2 games Knowshon is definitely playing his way off the roster!

[Northman]

David Klingler...:pound:

Just the mere mention of his name should bring in to perspective that Moreno isn't even close to a bust...

Well ****, dont even have to go that far back. Akili Smith anyone? .....

[chaoticmayhem]

Moreno is garbage.

[Army Bronco]

David Klingler...:pound:

Just the mere mention of his name should bring in to perspective that Moreno isn't even close to a bust...

Well ****, dont even have to go that far back. Akili Smith anyone? ..... Ken Anderson????

[Poet]

Well ****, dont even have to go that far back. Akili Smith anyone? .....

If memory serves Smith followed Klingler, I don't believe there was a stopgap QB between the two. 90's were rough.

[Chef Zambini]

until HILLMAN can demonstrate that he is a dependable BLOCKER, KM still has a roster spot !

[Army Bronco]

David Klingler...:pound:

Just the mere mention of his name should bring in to perspective that Moreno isn't even close to a bust...

Well ****, dont even have to go that far back. Akili Smith anyone? ..... Ken Anderson????K.Anderson played like in 72 for the Bengals

[jhildebrand]

Well ****, dont even have to go that far back. Akili Smith anyone? .....

KiJana Carter says :wave:

[MOtorboat]

KiJana Carter says :wave:

Ah, perspective is nice, isn't it?

Carter had 1600 all-purpose yards in seven seasons. Moreno, well...a whole hell of a lot better. He actually is a serviceable back, contrary to what you read on this site.

[Poet]

Carter blew his ACL in his first season with the Bengals. His second year they used him as a short yardage guy which was awful because he took even more abuse. He wasn't a bad pick.

Moreno isn't a bad back. People think that if you're a first rounder and you're not a Pro Bowler you're bad and a bust. It's worth noting that there's zero arguments to support the notion that Moreno is a bad back. It has been proven that most people who think he is bad are stupid and smell bad.

[Simple Jaded]

Child please. Contributing and drawing a paycheck doesn't preclude Moreno from being a bust, he's a bust because he simply had no business going 12th overall. Nobody uses a 1st round pick on a F'n backup, much less a Lottery Pick.

Who is a bigger bust, Jamarcus Russell or David Carr? Russell by a long shot, but Carr is still a massive bust in his own right. Moreno has a chance to turn it around but he was a F'n bust since the moment Doogie put his draft board together.......

[MOtorboat]

Child please. Contributing and drawing a paycheck doesn't preclude Moreno from being a bust, he's a bust because he simply had no business going 12th overall. Nobody uses a 1st round pick on a F'n backup, much less a Lottery Pick.

Who is a bigger bust, Jamarcus Russell or David Carr? Russell by a long shot, but Carr is still a massive bust in his own right. Moreno has a chance to turn it around but he was a F'n bust since the moment Doogie put his draft board together.......

You should do some research on the whole "Nobody uses a 1st round pick on a F'n backup, much less a Lottery Pick" because that happens all the time.

First round picks are WAY overvalued by fans.

[Poet]

A bust is a pick that doesn't pan out. Many would argue you're not a bust if you get hurt, others wouldn't. JaMarcus Russell is a bust. Ryan Leaf is a bust. Reggie Bush, while not living up to being drafted that highly, is not a bust.

[MOtorboat]

A bust is a pick that doesn't pan out. Many would argue you're not a bust if you get hurt, others wouldn't. JaMarcus Russell is a bust. Ryan Leaf is a bust. Reggie Bush, while not living up to being drafted that highly, is not a bust.

Knowshon Moreno is not a bust...

[Poet]

Knowshon Moreno is not a bust...

That's what I just said.

[Papa-pwn]

It will be interesting to see if Moreno gets cut this season. The Broncos are going to have to trim 2 players from the 53 man roster when Virgil Green and DJ Williams come off suspension.

IF they felt comfortable using Ronnie Hillman in pass-protection Knowshon might already be gone. But, that's not going to last forever. They drafted Hillman to replace Knowshon. They have similar styles of running, similar skills, except Hillman is younger and faster, and Knowshon is a better pass-blocker right now.

It's simply a question of time before they give Hillman a chance to be McGahee's primary backup.

With 2 fumbles in 2 games Knowshon is definitely playing his way off the roster!

He has one fumble. So does McGahee.

[Papa-pwn]

This thread honestly is an embarrassment to educated Bronco fans worldwide.

How can you say you hate a player on the Broncos, and still consider yourself a fan? That doesn't even make sense.

Sure, you can point out flaws, and say you believe other players would do better in his position, but being such sensationalists and hypocrital really is disappointing.

The truth is, Moreno is a solid RB, and one of 6 Broncos to score a touchdown for us this year. He has done well with his limited opportunities, with limited help from OL. His TDs and yards per touch are great, and his fumbles per touch are lower than league average. He is adequate in pass protection, and is a reliable receiver. He has a spot on 32 teams in the NFL based on those qualities alone. Not to mention his hard nosed attitude, that makes him one of the few players to keep on playing hard, even in a blow out loss. Same for the fact that he celebrates after good plays made, by himself and his teammates.


The lack of maturity, reason, and intelligence in this thread is outright offensive. I do not wish for the Broncos to have fans represent them so poorly, it is a shame.

Yes, he has made mistakes, so has every player and coach in every level of every sport. Why are his so much more damning than anyone else's? Again, I attribute it to a lack of maturity in the fan base.

[Papa-pwn]

This thread honestly is an embarrassment to educated Bronco fans worldwide.

How can you say you hate a player on the Broncos, and still consider yourself a fan? That doesn't even make sense.

Sure, you can point out flaws, and say you believe other players would do better in his position, but being such sensationalists and hypocrital really is disappointing.

The truth is, Moreno is a solid RB, and one of 6 Broncos to score a touchdown for us this year. He has done well with his limited opportunities, with limited help from OL. His TDs and yards per touch are great, and his fumbles per touch are lower than league average. He is adequate in pass protection, and is a reliable receiver. He has a spot on 32 teams in the NFL based on those qualities alone. Not to mention his hard nosed attitude, that makes him one of the few players to keep on playing hard, even in a blow out loss. Same for the fact that he celebrates after good plays made, by himself and his teammates.


The lack of maturity, reason, and intelligence in this thread is outright offensive. I do not wish for the Broncos to have fans represent them so poorly, it is a shame.

Yes, he has made mistakes, so has every player and coach in every level of every sport. Why are his so much more damning than anyone else's? Again, I attribute it to a lack of maturity in the fan base.

[bcbronc]

Moreno is a solid role player. Where he was drafted means SFA at this point in his career.

[BroncoJoe]

Moreno is going to have a breakout game tomorrow!

[Army Bronco]

This thread honestly is an embarrassment to educated Bronco fans worldwide.

How can you say you hate a player on the Broncos, and still consider yourself a fan? That doesn't even make sense.

Sure, you can point out flaws, and say you believe other players would do better in his position, but being such sensationalists and hypocrital really is disappointing.

The truth is, Moreno is a solid RB, and one of 6 Broncos to score a touchdown for us this year. He has done well with his limited opportunities, with limited help from OL. His TDs and yards per touch are great, and his fumbles per touch are lower than league average. He is adequate in pass protection, and is a reliable receiver. He has a spot on 32 teams in the NFL based on those qualities alone. Not to mention his hard nosed attitude, that makes him one of the few players to keep on playing hard, even in a blow out loss. Same for the fact that he celebrates after good plays made, by himself and his teammates.


The lack of maturity, reason, and intelligence in this thread is outright offensive. I do not wish for the Broncos to have fans represent them so poorly, it is a shame.

Yes, he has made mistakes, so has every player and coach in every level of every sport. Why are his so much more damning than anyone else's? Again, I attribute it to a lack of maturity in the fan base. To be a fan does not limit your free choice. Calling fans who hate a player on their team is not uneducated but a show of opinion and free choice just like your choice to attack such fans. I love America but do not always like our leaders. Does that make me uneducated and less of a patriot? I dont hate Moreno as a person, yes he has shown flashes of a good back, but has also made mistakes. He is inconsistent, he cant stay healthy, and has been bad more times than good. McGahee has carried more of the work. If Moreno stops dancing at the LOS and gets positive yards consistently, then fans will like him. Get off your soap box man. You do not decide what is right in this world and neither do I. You are listing stats for 2 games and the rest of us are referring to his entire NFL career.

[Chef Zambini]

we are allowed to hate other bronco fans.
we are not allowed to hate ANy current bronco player or coach or member of the staff.
once they are gone, we are allowed to express our hatred for their obvious incompetence.
HATE is a strong word, "very much dislike' is easier on the ears.
if I could use only one word to discribe moreno it would be
UNRELIABLE.
CANT DEPEND ON km to stay healthy
pick up his blocking assignment
block efficiently
get positive yards
catch the ball
hang on to the ball
justify his roster spot
play special teams
drive sober.

hurry up hillman, we need you to put KM in his place on the sidelines !

[Army Bronco]

Ok, i looked this up; Moreno has 8 carries 15 yards, a 1. 5 ypc. Lance Ball has 3 carries for 18 yards. 6 ypc. I dont like him.

[Poet]

There is a dude named Papa-Pwn.

That's ******* fantastic.

[Nomad]

To be a fan does not limit your free choice. Calling fans who hate a player on their team is not uneducated but a show of opinion and free choice just like your choice to attack such fans. I love America but do not always like our leaders. Does that make me uneducated and less of a patriot? I dont hate Moreno as a person, yes he has shown flashes of a good back, but has also made mistakes. He is inconsistent, he cant stay healthy, and has been bad more times than good. McGahee has carried more of the work. If Moreno stops dancing at the LOS and gets positive yards consistently, then fans will like him. Get off your soap box man. You do not decide what is right in this world and neither do I. You are listing stats for 2 games and the rest of us are referring to his entire NFL career.

I like reading your takes, and today, you've been solid.

[Chef Zambini]

ball looked to be the beter blocker in camp! IDKW Km is getting more playing time? !
maybe fox has KM on his fantasy team?

[Ravage!!!]

ball looked to be the beter blocker in camp! IDKW Km is getting more playing time? !
maybe fox has KM on his fantasy team?

That, or Fox knows wht he's talking about compared to you "looked to be" when you aren't there.

[Army Bronco]

To be a fan does not limit your free choice. Calling fans who hate a player on their team is not uneducated but a show of opinion and free choice just like your choice to attack such fans. I love America but do not always like our leaders. Does that make me uneducated and less of a patriot? I dont hate Moreno as a person, yes he has shown flashes of a good back, but has also made mistakes. He is inconsistent, he cant stay healthy, and has been bad more times than good. McGahee has carried more of the work. If Moreno stops dancing at the LOS and gets positive yards consistently, then fans will like him. Get off your soap box man. You do not decide what is right in this world and neither do I. You are listing stats for 2 games and the rest of us are referring to his entire NFL career.

I like reading your takes, and today, you've been solid. Thanks nomad. I was actually having a really bad morning at home..lol

[Dzone]

To be a fan does not limit your free choice. Calling fans who hate a player on their team is not uneducated but a show of opinion and free choice just like your choice to attack such fans. I love America but do not always like our leaders. Does that make me uneducated and less of a patriot? I dont hate Moreno as a person, yes he has shown flashes of a good back, but has also made mistakes. He is inconsistent, he cant stay healthy, and has been bad more times than good. McGahee has carried more of the work. If Moreno stops dancing at the LOS and gets positive yards consistently, then fans will like him. Get off your soap box man. You do not decide what is right in this world and neither do I. You are listing stats for 2 games and the rest of us are referring to his entire NFL career.
Outstanding.

The lack of maturity, reason, and intelligence in Papa-Pwns post is outright offensive. His attitude is an embarrassment to Bronco fans worldwide. Thank goodness most Bronco fans are not self righteous like Papa-Pwn

[chaoticmayhem]

I thought I left Papa-Pwn over on that other Broncos message board. He was wrong over there and he's still wrong over here. Moreno sucks and had bust written all over him since day 1.

Name me one slow, indecisive RB with a lack of power and vision with a knack for fumbling the ball that was EVER something great in the NFL. Moreno falls into that category. Time to cut the anchor loose and move on.

[Northman]

That's what I just said.

He's a semi-bust.

[MOtorboat]

He's a semi-bust.

So, like an A Cup?

[Poet]

Let's just foray into nipple discussions.

[Northman]

So, like an A Cup?

Probably D.

[jhildebrand]

The truth is, Moreno is a solid RB, and one of 6 Broncos to score a touchdown for us this year. He has done well with his limited opportunities, with limited help from OL.

All this coming from the guy who, on another forum, took a sig bet from me on YOUR insistence that Hillis was a joke and would be out of the league after the Broncos. He only graced the cover of Madden, played for the Browns and now Chiefs. You welched on your sig bet too. :tsk: Talk about embarassing!

The reality is Moreno is no where near worthy of being the #12 pick. You guys can all defend him, like you have done all the other McD moves, but the guy sucks. He is good at one thing and that is catching the ball out of the backfield. Like all the other McD moves, he will be gone soon.

[bcbronc]

Again, who cares at this point that Moreno was the #12 pick. He's a vet now, where he was drafted has as much relevance for evaluating his play as his jersey number does.

Everyone agrees that KM isn't performing to the hope you have for the first running back taken in a draft year. But that doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the teams. I'm not one that enjoys being rude or condescending to my beloved fellow posters, but honestly if you can't acknowledge or recognize the contributions Moreno has made over the years you're either a blind hater or don't understand football.
And again for the denser crowd, draft status means diddely squat after four years in the league.

[Dzone]

I'm not one that enjoys being rude or condescending to my beloved fellow posters, but
And again for the denser crowd...
LMAO
If you dont enjoy it, you shouldnt do it

[Army Bronco]

but honestly if you can't acknowledge or recognize the contributions Moreno has made over the years you're either a blind . Then i need my PRK eye surgery redone.

[shank]

Probably D.

wow, north really is doesn't get the joke guy now.

[Simple Jaded]

You should do some research on the whole "Nobody uses a 1st round pick on a F'n backup, much less a Lottery Pick" because that happens all the time.

First round picks are WAY overvalued by fans.
Didn't say that busts are uncommon, what l'm saying is that nobody, absolutely nobody, uses a 1st round pick on a RB in the hopes that he can run up his G's ass once or twice a game.

If a team traded a 1st round pick for Moreno so he could backup another RB you would laugh your ass off, just like the rest of us would.......

[bcbronc]

Then i need my PRK eye surgery redone.

not necessarily.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For me, I find it hard to evaluate Moreno anymore. Moreno's carries have been severely limited the past two seasons. Of course McGahee is going to look better, he gets the majority of the carries and has a chance to get into a rhythm. Moreno, as a spot duty player, gets a handful of carries these days and based on that is his body of work. He had that bad fumble in the Falcons game which is inexcusable, but McGahee fumbled vs the Steelers, too.

On most of Moreno's carries this season he's at least gotten positive yardage and has picked up a couple 1st downs on 3rd down. He's probably the best receiver out of the backfield we have. People keep talking about Hillman being that guy, but Hillman was never a receiver in college. He averaged 15 catches per season at SDSU - less than 2 per game. I, like everyone else, want to see what Hillman can do, but if he isn't the best receiver, isn't good in blitz pickup, and isn't truly healthy, then it's a waste to put him out there right now because he'll struggle and everyone will call him a bust, too.

At this point, I'd like to see Moreno at least be somewhat productive, but if he's carrying the ball 5 times a game, it's going to be hard to praise or criticize him too much. His body of work to this point just isn't enough for me to say, "same old Moreno". If Manning only got to throw 5 passes a game and went 2/5 for 15 yards and a pick, does that make him bad? Of course not. As of now Knowshon is a backup. Unless he really gets the start due to injury to McGahee, or at least starts splitting carries with McGahee, we really won't know for sure. He has a total of 8 carries so far this season. One was for a TD and one was a Fumble. I just think it's too early to really make an accurate assessment of his performance.

His fumble vs Atlanta was bad, but what made it worse was that Manning had just thrown 3 ints so everyone was already pissed off. Moreno by fumbling became the target of their ire. That, combined with a terrible possession call after the fumble, made it easy for everyone to jump right back on the I hate Moreno bandwagon. Personally, I want to see more from Moreno and I want to see Hillman to see if he truly is a better option.

[Northman]

LMAO
If you dont enjoy it, you shouldnt do it

Yea, i found that pretty hilarious too.

[Northman]

wow, north really is doesn't get the joke guy now.

:confused:

I understood what MO was getting at and played along. How is that not getting the joke?

[Northman]

For me, I find it hard to evaluate Moreno anymore. Moreno's carries have been severely limited the past two seasons. Of course McGahee is going to look better, he gets the majority of the carries and has a chance to get into a rhythm. Moreno, as a spot duty player, gets a handful of carries these days and based on that is his body of work. He had that bad fumble in the Falcons game which is inexcusable, but McGahee fumbled vs the Steelers, too.

On most of Moreno's carries this season he's at least gotten positive yardage and has picked up a couple 1st downs on 3rd down. He's probably the best receiver out of the backfield we have. People keep talking about Hillman being that guy, but Hillman was never a receiver in college. He averaged 15 catches per season at SDSU - less than 2 per game. I, like everyone else, want to see what Hillman can do, but if he isn't the best receiver, isn't good in blitz pickup, and isn't truly healthy, then it's a waste to put him out there right now because he'll struggle and everyone will call him a bust, too.

At this point, I'd like to see Moreno at least be somewhat productive, but if he's carrying the ball 5 times a game, it's going to be hard to praise or criticize him too much. His body of work to this point just isn't enough for me to say, "same old Moreno". If Manning only got to throw 5 passes a game and went 2/5 for 15 yards and a pick, does that make him bad? Of course not. As of now Knowshon is a backup. Unless he really gets the start due to injury to McGahee, or at least starts splitting carries with McGahee, we really won't know for sure. He has a total of 8 carries so far this season. One was for a TD and one was a Fumble. I just think it's too early to really make an accurate assessment of his performance.

His fumble vs Atlanta was bad, but what made it worse was that Manning had just thrown 3 ints so everyone was already pissed off. Moreno by fumbling became the target of their ire. That, combined with a terrible possession call after the fumble, made it easy for everyone to jump right back on the I hate Moreno bandwagon. Personally, I want to see more from Moreno and I want to see Hillman to see if he truly is a better option.

Nah, he's just bad. But its all a matter of opinion. Limited touches or not Moreno never provides a spark nor does anything special and in the case of the Atlanta game just created more problems. Personally, ive seen everything ive seen from Moreno and am ready to move on.

[Chef Zambini]

Again, who cares at this point that Moreno was the #12 pick. He's a vet now, where he was drafted has as much relevance for evaluating his play as his jersey number does.

Everyone agrees that KM isn't performing to the hope you have for the first running back taken in a draft year. But that doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the teams. I'm not one that enjoys being rude or condescending to my beloved fellow posters, but honestly if you can't acknowledge or recognize the contributions Moreno has made over the years you're either a blind hater or don't understand football.
And again for the denser crowd, draft status means diddely squat after four years in the league.ok, so draft status aside lets list all the fine contributions Km has madein 4 years.
lets alk about endurance
lets talk about fourth quarter first downs and TDs
lets alk about his special teams contributions
lets evaluate his reliability as a blocker, teammate, member of society.
how much have we PAID KM over those 4 years/
worth every penny?
MORENO is medicre at best, regardless of where he was drafted !
he is unreliable and has been over-paid for what he has delivered !
he needs to be replaced, not praised, not given yet another 'wait and see"

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Nah, he's just bad. But its all a matter of opinion. Limited touches or not Moreno never provides a spark nor does anything special and in the case of the Atlanta game just created more problems. Personally, ive seen everything ive seen from Moreno and am ready to move on.

You say that, because you've already made your decision. If Moreno went out this week and ran for 100 yds on 20 carries (5 ypc) and two TDs, but had a fumble, you'd key in on the fumble or on one of the runs where he was bad or where he missed an assignment. That's the thing now. So many people have made the decision that Moreno sucks that no matter what the guy does from here on out, he's toast as far as the majority of the fanbase is concerned. He's Kyle Orton. No matter how he plays, people will pick him apart.

Now, do I think if we cut Moreno tomorrow it would make a huge difference on this team? No. I'm not trying to defend Moreno as much as I'm saying I don't have enough data to make an educated decision. Unless/until Hillman proves he's a better option, Moreno will be on this team and see the field, especially on 3rd down.

[Northman]

You say that, because you've already made your decision. If Moreno went out this week and ran for 100 yds on 20 carries (5 ypc) and two TDs, but had a fumble, you'd key in on the fumble or on one of the runs where he was bad or where he missed an assignment. That's the thing now. So many people have made the decision that Moreno sucks that no matter what the guy does from here on out, he's toast as far as the majority of the fanbase is concerned. He's Kyle Orton. No matter how he plays, people will pick him apart.

Now, do I think if we cut Moreno tomorrow it would make a huge difference on this team? No. I'm not trying to defend Moreno as much as I'm saying I don't have enough data to make an educated decision. Unless/until Hillman proves he's a better option, Moreno will be on this team and see the field, especially on 3rd down.

Actually, Moreno could have a great game today and i would still say he isnt that great. For me when it comes to a player its all about consistency.

[Chef Zambini]

if moreno gets 100 yards on 20 carries send me his sweaty jock and i will eat it !
I doubt he gets 20 TOUCHES in ANY game this season !
never mind the production !
if he makes 4 successful blitz reads and blocks i will start a thread to sing his praises !
iof he just takes the field with any of the special teams I will send roses to his mom on mother's day !

[Chef Zambini]

Actually, Moreno could have a great game today and i would still say he isnt that great. For me when it comes to a player its all about consistency.BINGO !
we all remember eddie royals first game!

[jhildebrand]

Again, who cares at this point that Moreno was the #12 pick. He's a vet now, where he was drafted has as much relevance for evaluating his play as his jersey number does.

Bull shitzu! 1st round picks aren't a commodity! Try telling Xanders that it doesn't matter where Moreno was selected :lol: Where he was picked has as much relevance now as it did then! Just because you choose to forget the circumstances and history surrounding the pick doesn't mean everybody else does. Let me remind you, McD had just taken over a team that had a great young core on offense. The problem was on the defense. That was clear to even the most casual of football fans.

There were guys like Orakpo (next pick taken), Ziggy Hood, Clay Matthews, Ray Maualuga, and more. Then you factor in the fact that the regime at the time made the pick in part to keep Moreno from going to SD. :tsk: The reality is 1st round picks are expected in today's nfl to be able to come in and contribute immediately-to be more polished than those selected after them. Moreno is still making the same mistakes (ball security) now that he did as a rookie. Simple, correctable mistakes at a time when he should be demonstrating to the league that he is an elite player. This argument is laughable because the opposite of what you are suggesting is what was used against a QB who was here last year. :lol:



Everyone agrees that KM isn't performing to the hope you have for the first running back taken in a draft year. But that doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the teams. I'm not one that enjoys being rude or condescending to my beloved fellow posters, but honestly if you can't acknowledge or recognize the contributions Moreno has made over the years you're either a blind hater or don't understand football.


Please illuminate these contributions KM has made and take the time to illustrate how those same contributions haven't been made by lesser players i.e. Lance Ball. The reality is there is nothing so far in KM's career to justify his being the #12 pick.



And again for the denser crowd, draft status means diddely squat after four years in the league.

Yes. Because the teams consistently missing on their 1st rd picks or not having any at all are on an equal footing with the best teams of the league. :rolleyes:

[MOtorboat]

Just a friendly reminder:
Knowshon Moreno, 2,618 yards, 19 touchdowns.
Lance Ball, 759 yards, 2 touchdowns.

[Simple Jaded]

One of the arguments for Tim Tebow is that he shouldn't be evaluated like other 1st round picks, which was utter bullshit. However, Moreno is nowhere near that level of incompetence, so bringing Tebow up in a "Moreno=Bust" discussion is a double-edged sword.......

[Simple Jaded]

if moreno gets 100 yards on 20 carries send me his sweaty jock and i will eat it !
I doubt he gets 20 TOUCHES in ANY game this season !
never mind the production !
if he makes 4 successful blitz reads and blocks i will start a thread to sing his praises !
iof he just takes the field with any of the special teams I will send roses to his mom on mother's day !

Oh man! I like you Zam but I would pay money to see someone eat a sweaty jock, l am rooting for Slowshon even more now. :D.......

[BroncoJoe]

Accordng to Klis via Tned, Moreno inactive today.

[swaiy]

Looks like we get to see Hillman put in some work.

[Simple Jaded]

Accordng to Klis via Tned, Moreno inactive today.

How bout Hillman? Looks like Zam's Fumunda Cheese burrito smothered in underwear is gonna have to wait.......

[Simple Jaded]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5163/knowshon-moreno

Looks like Hillman will be active. Still think they need to get Caldwell's speed on the field.......

[summit pass]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5163/knowshon-moreno

Looks like Hillman will be active. Still think they need to get Caldwell's speed on the field.......

I completely agree with Caldwell needs to be on the field, but he is listed as inactive again.

[bcbronc]

Bull shitzu! 1st round picks aren't a commodity! Try telling Xanders that it doesn't matter where Moreno was selected :lol: Where he was picked has as much relevance now as it did then! Just because you choose to forget the circumstances and history surrounding the pick doesn't mean everybody else does. Let me remind you, McD had just taken over a team that had a great young core on offense. The problem was on the defense. That was clear to even the most casual of football fans.

yeah, the casual football fan saw that offense as great. It wasn't, and take a look how the pieces have developed outside of Denver. With the possible exception of Marshall, a whole lotta average.

But of course you're sidetrack has absolutely nothing to do with Moreno's performance on the field. All that matters is whether a given player can contribute to the team. That's it, whether coverting a couple of 3rd downs in a game, or putting up 150 yards and 2 TDs. Both are contributions, and if the 2 first downs come from a 1st rounder and the 2 TDs from a UDFA, it makes absolutely no difference outside their rookie seasons.

If Moreno is making positive plays--as he did vs PIT with a TD and a couple of 3rd down conversions--that's what matters. Obviously when he has games where a fumble is his most noticeable play, he's not helping the team win, and his game time status today shows that. But in his fourth season Moreno isn't a "1st rounder" anymore, he's simply one of 53 guys on the roster.

I mean do you factor in Tom Brady's and Peyton Manning's draft status when comparing their careers? If so, Tom Brady blows Peyton Manning out of the water when talking GOAT at QB.


There were guys like Orakpo (next pick taken), Ziggy Hood, Clay Matthews, Ray Maualuga, and more. Then you factor in the fact that the regime at the time made the pick in part to keep Moreno from going to SD. :tsk:

This applies to pretty much every guy taken in a draft, save probably 3-5 players any given year. Pick a guy, any guy, and there's probably guys taken later who ended up being better players. Youre expecting the best player to go #1, second best #2, etc until the end of the draft is pretty silly tbh, and completely irrelevant in this conversation.


The reality is 1st round picks are expected in today's nfl to be able to come in and contribute immediately-to be more polished than those selected after them.

EXACTLY!! "To come in and contribute immediately". So what does that have to do with evaluating a player in his 4th year?


Moreno is still making the same mistakes (ball security) now that he did as a rookie. Simple, correctable mistakes at a time when he should be demonstrating to the league that he is an elite player. This argument is laughable because the opposite of what you are suggesting is what was used against a QB who was here last year. :lol:

Did I use this argument against Tebow? No.

Personally, I don't like ever taking a RB in the 1st round, unless he has an absolutely through the roof speed/size package. But I don't look at draft position when evaluating a players performance, because it has absolutely no bearing on anything, save rookie season expectations.

I mean do you think it matters to NE Patriot fans that Ray Rice has been a more productive second rounder than Kevin Faulk was? I'd guess no because Faulk made key plays at key times. Moreno isn't going to be the next Ladamian Tomlinson like some projected, but if he can be the next Kevin Faulk he's still a useful player.

So far, despite a young OL, numerous different offensive systems, terrible QBs and always banged up or returning from injuries, Moreno has provided an average of 69 yards + .5 TDs in every game he's played in. This includes games he's been #2 and received limited touches. Not elite numbers, but not chopped liver either.

[jhildebrand]

Just a friendly reminder:
Knowshon Moreno, 2,618 yards, 19 touchdowns.
Lance Ball, 759 yards, 2 touchdowns.

Just a friendly reminder this team didn't waste a pick on Ball to be a back up.

[MOtorboat]

Just a friendly reminder this team didn't waste a pick on Ball to be a back up.

As long as you continue the ridiculous fixation on draft position, there's not much use having any sort of discussion about it.

[Simple Jaded]

How is Moreno's draft position not relevant? The 12th overall draft pick of the 2009 draft was a healthy scratch today, on a team with Lance Ball.......that's a bust. Can he go from bust to boom? Sure, Why not! He still has plenty of time to turn his career around but at the very least you expect a starter with that draft pick.......

[chaoticmayhem]

Moreno will never turn his career around. He doesn't possess the natural skills do it no matter how much he works at it.

[MOtorboat]

How is Moreno's draft position not relevant? The 12th overall draft pick of the 2009 draft was a healthy scratch today, on a team with Lance Ball.......that's a bust. Can he go from bust to boom? Sure, Why not! He still has plenty of time to turn his career around but at the very least you expect a starter with that draft pick.......

He was drafted 3 1/2 years ago.

Again, how is it relevant how he got to Denver at this point? It isn't.

[shank]

was hoping to see a little more of hillman today, but the game didn't go the right way to get a rookie touches. as much as i support moreno, i think hillman will be a better back with time.

[Hawgdriver]

I wanted to see Moreno succeed. At some point you write people off. You have to, or you it reflects on you.

MO. Admit it.

[MOtorboat]

I wanted to see Moreno succeed. At some point you write people off. You have to, or you it reflects on you.

MO. Admit it.

Well, if we can have a reasonable discussion about Moreno, sure, he's disappointed. But he's about average for running backs taken in the first round the last 10 years, but people want a hall of famer...Logical reasoning can understand he is what he is. Illogical reasoning leads to threads like this.

[Hawgdriver]

Well, if we can have a reasonable discussion about Moreno, sure, he's disappointed. But he's about average for running backs taken in the first round the last 10 years, but people want a hall of famer...Logical reasoning can understand he is what he is. Illogical reasoning leads to threads like this.

Fair enough. I'm tempted to research this, to determine the expected production of a 12 spot RB, but too drunk to do that. My intuition is that you are about right. There are plenty of high 1st round lamers: Ronnie Brown comes to mind. Plenty of others if I looked. I'm satisfied that "Moreno has disappointed" is precise and damning enough.

[MOtorboat]

Fair enough. I'm tempted to research this, to determine the expected production of a 12 spot RB, but too drunk to do that. My intuition is that you are about right. There are plenty of high 1st round lamers: Ronnie Brown comes to mind. Plenty of others if I looked. I'm satisfied that "Moreno has disappointed" is precise and damning enough.

I've done the research :wave:

He's right in the middle.

[Hawgdriver]

I've done the research :wave:

He's right in the middle.

Don't make me out-research you, bitch.

[Simple Jaded]

He was drafted 3 1/2 years ago.

Again, how is it relevant how he got to Denver at this point? It isn't.
It's relevant to how he's become a bust at this point.......

[MOtorboat]

It's relevant to how he's become a bust to this point.......

How so? You have a preconceived label that you want to put on him.

It has nothing to do with actual production. Obviously, his time is coming to an end, so you'll get what you want, but Moreno is far from a bust. Hell, even for running backs drafted in the first round he's about average. And average, in the NFL, isn't bad.

[Simple Jaded]

How so? You have a preconceived label that you want to put on him.

It has nothing to do with actual production. Obviously, his time is coming to an end, so you'll get what you want, but Moreno is far from a bust. Hell, even for running backs drafted in the first round he's about average. And average, in the NFL, isn't bad.
He's a bust because of his lack of actual production. I'm pulling for him too, MO, I look forward to whatever production they get from him. I'm not even writing him off, just arguing with the notion that he's not a bust. He can still turn it around if he develops skills he's never had, DeAngelo Williams did.......

[MOtorboat]

He's a bust because of his lack of actual production. I'm pulling for him too, MO, I look forward to whatever production they get from him. I'm not even writing him off, just arguing with the notion that he's not a bust. He can still turn it around if he develops skills he's never had, DeAngelo Williams did.......

Define "bust." Define "lack of actual production."

Discussing this without actual parameters is useless. I have numbers to back up my beliefs (he's average, in terms of first running back production). You have "he sucks" and he's "a bust."

Come with something.