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underrated29
08-05-2009, 11:15 PM
First off met up with pnbronco and also ran into socal, montrose, buff and some guys from the mane. Let me also say that i am not trying to steal the OM guys thunder by doing these reports. THey know this, but just want to make sure everyone else does too. We all agree that the more eyes, reports and coverage for our team the better. Hope to see everyone tomorrow morning too.


Once again i got their late as i had to work, but pn saved me a good seat so i was able to see things better. I tried to concentrate soley on the RB,DL,AYERS,Jarvis,and somewhat the Qbs and Somewhat the formations.

As always i am no expert so if you see something wrong with what i say tell me, so i can learn and adjust.

Jarvis Moss- His rep suites him. Big slim. He is big and slim. He has good speed and good moves, but his strength sucks. I feel bad for him because he cant gain weight. Every has said it but it is true he needs the weight to be able to get passed the OL. His problem is once they lock on to him he is toast. I saw him a couple times try the bullrush once they were locked on and he was unsuccessful. He needs to pump those legs up big time. Squats, lunges whatever. If he can get more power out of his legs he might just be able to make up for lack of stregth.

To me from seeing him move, he seems like a perfect fit at LB, yet i did not see him lined up there once. Before i would have said no chance at making the team. With nick out he might make it, but still doesnt look good.

RB- once again no torain. So i got to see bucky,jordan,hillis,darius.

Jordan-my man- he sucked once again.:tsk: I think maybe when we really hit and go full blast he will lower the shoulder more and use his power, but for now he got owned pretty much everytime. And they were running goaline from the 2. He still couldnt pound it in. Although, to his defense they had us running wide a lot. NOthing up the guy pound it styel. Also the defense pretty much knew which 3 plays we were going to run. Still. Unless he has a great preseason- he is in deep trouble me thinks. Sucks because i like him.

Darius- didnt see him but once or twice, made a catch in the flats- nothing to report.

Hillis- is lined up all over the place, for everything. WR,HB,FB,Punt- he is really going to be featured. One cool goaline play that i like is hillis is at FB runs and chips the defender before making a hard cut out wide. The Qb if timed right hits him with the ball and looks like an easy score, first down, whatever short yard situation we are in. A nice little misdirection if you will.

I didnt see him run much if at all, but all you FF players he would be a great Flex imo.

Bucky-he got the most runs. He did better than all the others, even though he is not my favorite. He caught well, showed great speed to the outside in goaline. Also had some nice jukes running up the middle. One particular play in goaline (weather this was i form, goaline not sure but the ball was on the 2) bucky had a run right behind the C i think, but had great vision to see the hole open up off tackle made a hard cut to it and exploded for the TD. Nice play. He will make the team easily and much to my dismay probably be the starter until knowhon takes it away.

Bucky also got into a little face slapping match with i think chris baker (who is huge by the way). So he has some fight. I still though am not sold on him in pass pro- he did fine, but i am a tough critic and fine doesnt work for me when its our Qbs last line of defense.

The Qbs- I think before i get into those that we (all fans) have inadvertantly been kinda hyped up because Kyle has separated himself as the clear #1. This is the case no doubt. However, we did downgrade at the position. No matter which side of the fence you are on about Jay. Its a reality that Kyle is not as talented as Jay. So there is a downgrade at the Qb. I only say it as after reading peoples replys and stuff i think a lot of us, or maybe just me, kinda took kyle as a small bump in the road but nothing else. He is good for us and will imo do well, really well. But he is not as accurate imo as well as some of his reads and throws. I know there are a lot of factors- new offense, hasnt gelled, line, plays etc etc. But just wanted to throw that out there.

Kyle O- Didnt focus too much on him, but overall he looked pretty good. Had some REAL nice touch throws that were perfect and also had some Needle strikes. I was very critical of one play however. He threw a 5-8 yard slant to bucky and bucky had to jump up for the ball. There was no one near him at the time. HAd this been live though bucky would have been destroyed. NOt sure how many people saw this, but i did and i did not like it. (remember i am a tough critic in my evaluations) so maybe i am blowing it out of proportion, but i was not happy. I know throws happen like that, but Kyle had no pass rush and Buck was open.

Simms- saw less of him, he had a false start, so the big uglies and he had to jog a lap- they did not run, they jogged. He had some good throws and i think it was he who threw a High Laser in the back of the endzone for a crossing leaping Brandon Floyd. Great pass as there was coverage and it had to be high enough to clear the DBs. It was, and it was a nice TD.

Tom Bra- He is a rook, watched him more after practice while they were giving out autographs. He had pretty good zip and has a nice tight spiral. Def a project, but might just might turn into something. I didnt watch enough of him to really say.


MY MAIN FOCUS - AYERS!

Ok- as has been reported when he knows his assignment he is good. Real good. A great pass rusher. Saw a lot of him working 1 on 1 with the DL. He used a different move each time and did well. Harris, polumbus and licht <- i think none really did very well against him. However, dropping in coverage he looked slow- real slow and tentative. Needs to practice this area big time. I also noticed one major thing which i discussed with the OM boys. To me its a negative and a tip off to the OL, but when Ayers was going to rush-(from the DE, or atleast on the line, where he was lined up most of the time) he kept his heel up. When he was going to drop back in coverage his heel was down. Maybe thats normal, but we think its a negative and a tip off. Rookie mistake he will need to correct.

When ayers was lined up at DE- he moved to the left and right end, and often went up against D. graham. Lots of times he seemed to just stand there when the ball was snapped. I have two theories on this, i will explain in a sec. Anyways- he would stand there and then start his rush. Bull rush, swim move, juke whatever a good second or two after the snap. First, theory is that he is diognosing the play as to where it is run, if its a run, or pass-whatever. I dont think so. Second theory which i do think so, and do hope is that he already knows he can get to the qb and since he cant do anything when he gets there he starts later. You could definitley tell he was not going 100% more like 60%- so thats why i think he was waiting and then going. i could be wrong, but those are the only two things i could think of.

Lined up at LB- he looked lost to me. He had happy feet and i dont think he could decide where or what he wanted to do. So he kinda danced around with his feet. Now maybe Nolan had him in some zone and he was tracking the qbs eyes, i dont know. But he seemed kinda out of it to me. He still did the heel thing though, both at Lb and De.

Inthe 11 vs 11 he was in on some good tackles and got to the Qb sometimes too. I really like what he brings so far and am thrilled with him only being here for a couple days. he should be legit! He is not legit yet, like phonz. Phonz carries that swagger and that confidence that you can just see. I know he is legit. Ayers isnt there yet, but i am betting he will be. Great Pick!

The DL as a whole was fairly impressive to me. They did real well in the 1 vs 1. But that is kinda expected as our O line is so so going solo, but as a whole they are a wall. Still the 1 on 1 the d guys looked good. Some of them are sooo huge- i was really surpised at the size we have there. For the most part they got the better on the 1 on 1. I hope the OM guys agree with me but this is what i saw. Polumbus looked good and Kory Licht was owned once or twice but he was overall not to shabby either. I am comfortable with him as a backup C. Plumbus is a monster- more than comfortable with him as a backup T.

Formations- we ran a lot of 3,4,5 wide with the QB in shot, or 3-4 wide with the qb under C and the RB behind or off to the side. I dont know what you call those formations. Sorry. But i did focus on the routes our WR ran. I like the routes. Lots of crossing, go, and short slants. It seems like our Qb should have a player on all levels of the field. Long, mid and short range, and also right, left and middle. Thats 9 different levels to where we seemed to have a guy. So to me our Qb if he sees 2-3 defenders in one of the 9. Then he should automatically know that he has 7 other areas left with possible only 5 defensman. Someone is bound to be open. I might be oversimplifiying this. and probably am, but its a thought.

In our goaline, we seemed to run, right, left and the little play where hillis at FB chips the defender then swings out for the pass. I would like to see us use some striat up beat you up runs. I am sure we have them, but didnt run them

We have one route where Quinn- the TE ran tonight, was in a 4-5 wide. He ran up the seam and has a double move. he moves out and then back in at about 7 yards, continuing up the seam, then he makes another move in/out. I saw him go back in and pointed out that he should have gone outside. Sure enough Josh Mcd came and pointed the same thing out. This will be a great play for us, esp if royal or stokes or one of those masters run it.

Thinks i liked or caught my eye.

THey had the players slip and slide, they wet down the turf and had the players (maybe only rooks) slide and get all wet. I was told it was to simulate playing in the rain or when conditions are wet.

kenny peterson. was a man animal tonight. I saw him all over the place, and he looked good in 1 on 1 too.

scheff, royal, stokely, and even chad Jax- all looked good tonight. Making some nice grabs and nice routes.

David Burton- hung out after practice taking rep after rep on the jugs machine. Nice work david. I like his ethic.

some batted balls, ints and the DL mainly shut down the run tonight. I still feel that we will be solid against the RUn. If our Dl doesnt get the job done, which is iffy our LB will clean house.

Things i didnt like-

Chad Jax had a catch and let, what looked like phonz strip it away for a pick.

Ayers either batted a ball down or stripped it, but he did not chase after it. he just stood there and go chewed out by nolan and some other coach.

Cj Jones had a drop on an easy catch

My man Josh barrett to me struggled as a gunner on punts. He looked slower or something not sure what but i didnt look right to me. He also came in to wide and didnt really force phonz back in the middle. he got chewed out for that too.


Ok thats all there might be more but its 10 now and i am sure no one will read this this late. And by tomorrow it willbe old. Have a good night.

NameUsedBefore
08-05-2009, 11:31 PM
I wonder if having drafted Ayers has just destroyed Moss mentally. Too bad to see L. Jordan failing so hard, too.

underrated29
08-05-2009, 11:38 PM
posibly. I saw moss trying really hard tonight. He as giving great effort. But it wasnt coming together really.

and yes Pn and i were joking becuase i like jordan and dislike buckhalter, but bucky was owning and jorday was not. Sad because i thought he had big potential here. Hopefully preseason will get him going.

Tned
08-05-2009, 11:40 PM
Hey, great detailed report :2thumbs:

One question. Are you saying that Moss wasn't lining up as a linebacker, but lining up as a defensive end, or when he was in, he was playing linebacker, but up on the line in a rush mode?

Also, were they mostly running 3-4 or 4-3?

Simple Jaded
08-05-2009, 11:41 PM
Are the Broncos still running their ZBS? I've heard/read that they will but some annual magazines report that they won't, it'd be a shame to see that go.......

Tned
08-05-2009, 11:43 PM
Are the Broncos still running their ZBS? I've heard/read that they will but some annual magazines report that they won't, it'd be a shame to see that go.......

Good question, I haven't heard anyone address that in any of the reports. In the offseason, McD said they would mix in some ZBS, but primarily would not be running ZBS.

underrated29
08-05-2009, 11:52 PM
Hey, great detailed report :2thumbs:

One question. Are you saying that Moss wasn't lining up as a linebacker, but lining up as a defensive end, or when he was in, he was playing linebacker, but up on the line in a rush mode?

Also, were they mostly running 3-4 or 4-3?


Are the Broncos still running their ZBS? I've heard/read that they will but some annual magazines report that they won't, it'd be a shame to see that go.......



Good questions. as for the first tned. I do not know. I am not skilled enough to be able to tell. My guess would be lining up at DE and not as the LB. but its hard for me to recognise that still. Also i had the stupid field marker guys right in front of me a lot so i had to really lean to see what was going on.


as for the zbs, i am sure i seen it a couple times, esp on buckys run, but after that i am not sure. Is there really any way to indetify it easily?

Simple Jaded
08-05-2009, 11:57 PM
Good question, I haven't heard anyone address that in any of the reports. In the offseason, McD said they would mix in some ZBS, but primarily would not be running ZBS.

That's what I'm afraid of, I'm speaking of annual football rags like Lindy's and Sporting News when it comes to the rumors of changing the running game, I couldn't tell you which ones though.

Josh McDaniels ran the ZBS down Denver's throat in the 08 NE/Den matchup, I'm hoping we see that offense.......

Simple Jaded
08-06-2009, 12:17 AM
Good questions. as for the first tned. I do not know. I am not skilled enough to be able to tell. My guess would be lining up at DE and not as the LB. but its hard for me to recognise that still. Also i had the stupid field marker guys right in front of me a lot so i had to really lean to see what was going on.


as for the zbs, i am sure i seen it a couple times, esp on buckys run, but after that i am not sure. Is there really any way to indetify it easily?

Conventional run plays will have more one-on-one blocking and they'll be trying to establish a new line of scrimmage, whereas the lineman in a ZBS do more steering and positioning.

Watch the Center on wide runs, from what little I understand he'll combo block and then release and take on a LB, the Broncos don't cut-block on the backside as much as they used to but that is another tell, the lineman will slide down the line and pick up any defender coming into their zone.

Between the tackles runs are apparently more difficult to tell apart from conventional run plays, the ZBS doesn't have much pulling and trapping.

Watch what the RB is looking at too, if he is still cutting back behind the OL that is washing the DL laterally, that could be a Zone play.

There are people far more qualified to learn you on what to look for than I am, but those are some things I've been told to look for.......

Elevation inc
08-06-2009, 02:49 AM
Conventional run plays will have more one-on-one blocking and they'll be trying to establish a new line of scrimmage, whereas the lineman in a ZBS do more steering and positioning.

Watch the Center on wide runs, from what little I understand he'll combo block and then release and take on a LB, the Broncos don't cut-block on the backside as much as they used to but that is another tell, the lineman will slide down the line and pick up any defender coming into their zone.

Between the tackles runs are apparently more difficult to tell apart from conventional run plays, the ZBS doesn't have much pulling and trapping.

Watch what the RB is looking at too, if he is still cutting back behind the OL that is washing the DL laterally, that could be a Zone play.

There are people far more qualified to learn you on what to look for than I am, but those are some things I've been told to look for.......

my interpretation is that they were sticking with the ZBS but were adding some pulling guard elements(whatever that means) my guess is this is why we targeted olsen and people were like WTF...lol

I rember kahn and Montorse saying the still saw the ZBS a bunch but we were mixing in a couple otehr things they were unfamiliar with....

probally just gonna make us much more versatile....which is a good thing....I heard olsen is really good and could even be a starter mid season.....

Tned
08-06-2009, 08:03 AM
my interpretation is that they were sticking with the ZBS but were adding some pulling guard elements(whatever that means) my guess is this is why we targeted olsen and people were like WTF...lol

I rember kahn and Montorse saying the still saw the ZBS a bunch but we were mixing in a couple otehr things they were unfamiliar with....

probally just gonna make us much more versatile....which is a good thing....I heard olsen is really good and could even be a starter mid season.....

McDaniels said the opposite a few months ago. They would be going to his offense, but would retain some of the ZBS.

Ok, it took me a while to find the quote, that I know I had read/heard, but here it is. This was in a press conference just after the draft. When asked about the zone blocking scheme:


"That was really their bread-and-butter [referring to the Broncos]," McDaniels said. "We [referring to New England] did more gap schemes in New England, where we're going to pull a guard. I can't give that up. That's kind of my baby. But you're going to see both."

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=denverbacks20090429

Now, it is possible, between the draft and now he has changed his position, but I doubt it, since it seems in every other way he is installing the NE offense here, so I doubt he would recreate all the plays to base them on zone blocking. Instead, I imagine he has added some zone blocking run plays to his book, but only time will tell.

broncofaninfla
08-06-2009, 08:14 AM
Good stuff under!!

GEM
08-06-2009, 09:58 AM
my interpretation is that they were sticking with the ZBS but were adding some pulling guard elements(whatever that means) my guess is this is why we targeted olsen and people were like WTF...lol

I rember kahn and Montorse saying the still saw the ZBS a bunch but we were mixing in a couple otehr things they were unfamiliar with....

probally just gonna make us much more versatile....which is a good thing....I heard olsen is really good and could even be a starter mid season.....

From my understanding the pulling guard pulls the guard from his natural position back over to the side the RB is running creating a path that takes the DE out of the play.

My godson plays Guard and I've watched an ishload of practices with him practicing pulling. It's one of his favorite parts of the position.

Spiritguy
08-06-2009, 10:28 AM
I read a camp report or something this morning that stated they were working the ZBS between the 20's and going to the power blocking in the red zone.

Buff
08-06-2009, 10:48 AM
First off met up with pnbronco and also ran into socal, montrose, buff and some guys from the mane.

Wait, is there another buff that I'm not familiar with?

Tned
08-06-2009, 11:31 AM
Wait, is there another buff that I'm not familiar with?

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/member.php?u=671

NightTrainLayne
08-06-2009, 11:36 AM
There's only one Buff in my book.

Elevation inc
08-08-2009, 02:27 AM
yeah just read that they plan on using the ZBS with a mix of pulling between the 20's but going to a power game in teh redzone, sound like the best of both worlds....our run game shit be top 5 next year with the plaeyrs we have and the OL....it could be we can win next year if we are physical, control the clock and grind teams down with power.....

muse
08-08-2009, 05:45 AM
I read a camp report or something this morning that stated they were working the ZBS between the 20's and going to the power blocking in the red zone.

That's a pretty good strategy I think. I also read somewhere that in NE, McDaniels tended to run more zone plays against 3-4 fronts whilst using power running more against the 4-3. But the power blocking isn't new to this OL since they used it a lot when Peyton was the feature back (I think there was a quote after the NYJ game saying that).

I'm guessing that they're not changing the pass blocking either after last year's performance.