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omac
11-01-2007, 04:01 PM
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071101/SPORTS01/71101058/1049


Lions WR Roy Williams sounds off on Dre' Bly; Sunday's game sold out
November 1, 2007
By CARLOS MONARREZ
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

Dre Bly had better forget about a bulletin board this week. If the Denver Broncos cornerback wants to post remarks Lions receiver Roy Williams made about him Thursday, he should consider using an entire bulletin wall.

The Lions traded By to Denver before this season but he and Williams developed a friendly rivalry while Bly played in Detroit from 2003-06 and made two Pro Bowls.

Williams had some fun Thursday while describing Bly as a tackling-challenged cornerback.

“Dre is not a hitter, period,” Williams said with a smile. “Dre is a no-hitter. Isn’t that term in baseball, a no-hitter? He’s a no-hitter.”

Because Bly and Williams faced each other in practice for years, there may be some question as to who has the advantage Sunday. But Williams didn’t have a doubt.

“Of course I have the advantage,” he said. “I know what I’m doing (on my route), he doesn’t.”

Williams even quantified his hypothetical advantage — and again poked fun at Bly’s tackling.

“I was to run 10 routes on Dre, it’d probably be 60-40, advantage me,” Williams said. “But as far as if Kevin Jones ran at him, 10 out of 10 times Dre is going to miss the tackle.”

Williams was essentially speaking the truth, because Bly is a man-to-man cover corner specialist, instead of the run-stuffing zone coverage the Lions’ Tampa Two system demands of its corners. Williams made a point to say cover corners are the best in the league and he included Bly among the NFL’s elite.

Williams’ verbal strike against Bly may have just been a preemptive measure, since he expects a war of words Sunday.

“There’s going to be trash talking all day,” Williams said. “That’s what Dre does. He’s gonna talk trash to the fans, he’s gonna talk trash to us. He’ll talk trash to the refs. That’s just the way Dre plays.

“He’s a Pro Bowler, he’s won a Super Bowl. He’s a good player and I hate that we let him go; we could have used him. Of course, he’s not the best tackler in the world. That’s why we let him go, because we need corners that can tackle. As far as coverage, he did what he was supposed to do while he was here.”

NOTEBOOK: The Lions have reached a sellout to avoid a television blackout, as the game will be seen on CBS (Channel 62 in Detroit) at 1 p.m. Although, about 200 tickets remain available after the Broncos returned some of their allotment.

champbronc2
11-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Won't the Champ be covering Roy most of the time?

But yes, Bly is a horrible tackler.

Against Jennings on a key 3rd down against the Pack he got juked out and then didn't make the tackle. Another time the back dragged him for a while till Engleberger had to help make the tackle.

topscribe
11-01-2007, 05:35 PM
I'm glad the guy said that. That should put a fire under Dré.

"That's why we let hlm go"? They got two players for him.

-----

Buff
11-01-2007, 06:01 PM
I'd say that's an accurate statement... Every time Dre needs to be bringing the Receiver down, he's making half-assed attempts at poking and swatting the ball instead... And it seems like the receivers pick up an additional 5-10 yards as a result.

He clearly shies away from coming up to the line of scrimmage on run support as we've seen Bailey do so effectively...

I'm not saying he's a bad player-- but he's clearly not getting paid for his tackling.

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Dre was never known for being a hitter.

It's like saying "Rod Smith isn't a pounder".

Big deal.

BroncoWave
11-01-2007, 10:58 PM
Won't the Champ be covering Roy most of the time?

But yes, Bly is a horrible tackler.

Against Jennings on a key 3rd down against the Pack he got juked out and then didn't make the tackle. Another time the back dragged him for a while till Engleberger had to help make the tackle.

I'd rather have Champ on Calvin Johnson. Just imagine how badly CJ would kill Bly on jump balls.

lex
11-01-2007, 11:12 PM
I'm glad the guy said that. That should put a fire under Dré.

"That's why we let hlm go"? They got two players for him.

-----


Im not glad he said that. This probably means Dre is going to run his mouth and Dre is the last guy who should be doing this.

omac
11-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I'd rather have Champ on Calvin Johnson. Just imagine how badly CJ would kill Bly on jump balls.

I was thinking the same thing at the start of the season. CJ's coming back from a bruised back, though, so I'm not sure if he's back to 100%.

Escobar
11-02-2007, 12:07 AM
I was thinking the same thing at the start of the season. CJ's coming back from a bruised back, though, so I'm not sure if he's back to 100%.

He might do it to bailey too, hes human, hes injured, last time he went up against a talented tall recieve was plaxico burress, i believe burress smoked him for 2 tds i belief.

omac
11-02-2007, 01:44 AM
He might do it to bailey too, hes human, hes injured, last time he went up against a talented tall recieve was plaxico burress, i believe burress smoked him for 2 tds i belief.

That could definitely happen, even if Bailey wasn't injured. CJ's got the tools to make any corner look foolish.

frenchfan
11-02-2007, 01:55 AM
Even the best corner can be burnt...

While I finally could see a Broncos game on French TV (we usually have the MNF), I could finally watch our team and our famous CB.

What I have to say is that even if Bailey got burnt on one play, he also saved a TD and was closed to have 2 Ints... Not to mention all the good tackles he made...

About Bly? Seriously... I saw nothing... May be it was a bad game for him. And as far as I didn't see the other games, I can't have a fair opinion about him... Now, I was really disappointed about his game against the Packers... Not because he got burnt on the winning TD in OT, but he because he really made ZERO play during the game!

I hope he will rebound and show us how good he can be !

Any thoughts about that?

PS : I agree with the article : Dré is not a good tackler !

SBboundBRONCOS
11-02-2007, 10:12 AM
im sorry but dre bly is a CB, ive been saying this for the past 4-5 games, he shouldn't have to come up for run support other than maybe 1-2 times a game, same with champ even though he make the tackles he shouldnt have to

if this is how they are gonna play D, look run first and then pass as CBs, you might as well take them out put in 2 more LBs and play a 4-5 defense lol.

seriously though he almost always does a great job taking down his reciever if they catch it. he just shouldnt have to play the run

champbronc2
11-02-2007, 10:28 AM
im sorry but dre bly is a CB, ive been saying this for the past 4-5 games, he shouldn't have to come up for run support other than maybe 1-2 times a game, same with champ even though he make the tackles he shouldnt have to

if this is how they are gonna play D, look run first and then pass as CBs, you might as well take them out put in 2 more LBs and play a 4-5 defense lol.

seriously though he almost always does a great job taking down his reciever if they catch it. he just shouldnt have to play the run
He shouldn't play the run, that's right. The corners are wrong for doing so.

Their reasoning is they don't trust the front 7. They should since that is a general rule of football but they just can't.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 10:57 AM
he just shouldnt have to play the run

I, for one, am glad that you are not our defensive coordinator. We would be letting up twice as many yards on the run than we do now.

Are you serious?

underrated29
11-02-2007, 11:01 AM
dre is a good player, I think he can run his mouth if he wants too, he can back it up.

Just remember all the naysers when he turns in a couple pick6 this year. We just need an ounce of pressure from the line, and dre and champ will be seeing the balls in their hands.

of course teams also have to be passing first.

champbronc2
11-02-2007, 11:06 AM
I, for one, am glad that you are not our defensive coordinator. We would be letting up twice as many yards on the run than we do now.

Are you serious?

Are you serious?

A cornerback's job is to play the pass. He does not play the run first and pass second.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 11:49 AM
I don't think anyone is claiming that CB should not play pass first, what they are saying is that CB should come up and support the run after it has been identified as a running play. Champ Bailey comes up to support the run once the play has been identified as run, Bly does not.

Champ will fight through blocks to get to the runner, Bly does not.

He also "half-hits" and refuses to put a helmet on the ball runner. He looks like he is a sissy QB out there trying to block a defensive player. He ducks his head, lowers his shoulder and hopes the runner doesn't see him so he can get credit for the tackle.

For a CB not to break from coverage and support the run defense is inexcusable and he clearly lacks the ability to make an open field tackle when there is some distance between him and the runner.

That being said, he has great cover skills, BUT tackles are far more likely than Passes defended & interceptions, so you have to be able to perform that task more frequently than the latter two. I would argue that since tackling is a far more utilized skill that someone of his caliber and pay scale should be able to perform it just as good, if not better than the other two skills.


That is like a marathon runner that can outkick his opponent a quarter-mile from the finish, but can't keep up during the other 26 miles.

SBboundBRONCOS
11-02-2007, 12:35 PM
I don't think anyone is claiming that CB should not play pass first, what they are saying is that CB should come up and support the run after it has been identified as a running play. Champ Bailey comes up to support the run once the play has been identified as run, Bly does not.

Champ will fight through blocks to get to the runner, Bly does not.

He also "half-hits" and refuses to put a helmet on the ball runner. He looks like he is a sissy QB out there trying to block a defensive player. He ducks his head, lowers his shoulder and hopes the runner doesn't see him so he can get credit for the tackle.

For a CB not to break from coverage and support the run defense is inexcusable and he clearly lacks the ability to make an open field tackle when there is some distance between him and the runner.

That being said, he has great cover skills, BUT tackles are far more likely than Passes defended & interceptions, so you have to be able to perform that task more frequently than the latter two. I would argue that since tackling is a far more utilized skill that someone of his caliber and pay scale should be able to perform it just as good, if not better than the other two skills.


That is like a marathon runner that can outkick his opponent a quarter-mile from the finish, but can't keep up during the other 26 miles.

im not saying that if its clearly a run that he should keep running with his man for the rest of the play, obviously he needs to come up for support, but when you have 2 of the better CBs in the league making more tackles than your LBs than you have a problem

they are clearly playing the run first and that as a CB is inexcusable if you ask me, and if they keep it up we will continue t be tourched not only in the running game but the passing game as well

second hes playing with a shoulder he seperated a couple weeks ago and id imagine thats not easy, lay off the guy untill the entire rest of our D starts playing anwhere close to respectable defense

TXBRONC
11-02-2007, 12:54 PM
We knew Dre was poor tackler when we signed him.

Lonestar
11-02-2007, 01:05 PM
We knew Dre was poor tackler when we signed him.

Your correct let me add..

We also knew that he was a glory guy, always going for the pick and getting burnt on occassion and that he bites on double moves.

I personally have never been that high on the guy.

Now that he is being forced to play run first because of the lousy DL he is gonna beat like rented mule the rest of the year..

Not that is all his fault! The double move thing is an issues as is the poor tackler aspect. But alot of what is going on would not be a factor, had we gotten viable DT's in the off season.

That is GM thingy whoever is playing GM.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 01:49 PM
im not saying that if its clearly a run that he should keep running with his man for the rest of the play, obviously he needs to come up for support, but when you have 2 of the better CBs in the league making more tackles than your LBs than you have a problem

they are clearly playing the run first and that as a CB is inexcusable if you ask me, and if they keep it up we will continue t be tourched not only in the running game but the passing game as well

second hes playing with a shoulder he seperated a couple weeks ago and id imagine thats not easy, lay off the guy untill the entire rest of our D starts playing anwhere close to respectable defense



im not saying that if its clearly a run that he should keep running with his man for the rest of the play, obviously he needs to come up for support, but when you have 2 of the better CBs in the league making more tackles than your LBs than you have a problem

they are clearly playing the run first and that as a CB is inexcusable if you ask me, and if they keep it up we will continue t be tourched not only in the running game but the passing game as well

second hes playing with a shoulder he seperated a couple weeks ago and id imagine thats not easy, lay off the guy untill the entire rest of our D starts playing anwhere close to respectable defense

Well I am not so sure about playing run first, I looked at the number of tackles made by CB's and here are the results for our CB's:

Bly was 54th out of the CB's on tackles, putting him tied for 123 on this league Dback tackle list. Also putting himself 54th out of 64 starting CB's in the NFL.

So I am not sure this "support the run first" theory holds up because obiviously Dre Bly is no where near the top at tackling for his position league wide. If he supported the run first I would expect to see him a little higher up that list Rrgardless of how he fares on the Broncos tackling list. It is clear that he does very little in run support and a good portion of his tackles come in coverage.

Champ is 7th on the list out of cornerbacks. 4 of the 6 above him are on Tampa 2 defenses where CB's play pass first AND support the run.

Every year Champ is near the top at tackling, because he is not afraid to mix it up and support the run defense. He just does both and does both well even though his primary role is pass defense.

Also you say he has a bum shoulder, well then he shouldn't be trying to injure his other shoulder by leading with it, head down when he tackles. He needs to learn how to wrap guys up.

SBboundBRONCOS
11-02-2007, 01:57 PM
champ is one in a million and you will not find another CB like him.

i understand he is not a good tackler but he shouldnt have to be, so being forced to come up makes him look even worse.

im done arguing because our entire D is pathetic and yes that includes champ right now, i just dont see the point in having 2 good/great CBs or even 1 for that matter if your D cant even semi-perform the way they should, CB is a luxury position not a need. you can get by nearly all the time with a good/great player in the front seven and servicable Cbs but flip that and you have the broncos who cant do anything on the defensive side of the ball.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 02:14 PM
champ is one in a million and you will not find another CB like him.

i understand he is not a good tackler but he shouldnt have to be, so being forced to come up makes him look even worse

I am not sure where this "he shouldn't have to be a good tackler" attitude comes from?

Tackling is the name of the game on defense, that is the action that stops the play. The fact is he SHOULD be a good tackler and there are 53 better tacklers at that SAME position. ALso he is not coming up to tackle SO I am not sure where he is exposed?????

That's like saying a running back shouldn't have to catch passes or pick up blitzes because that is not his primary role. Well guess what, that is part of the job so you better learn how to do it and do it well.

Saying he doesn't have to be good at it is just ridiculous.

Lonestar
11-02-2007, 02:27 PM
Well I am not so sure about playing run first, I looked at the number of tackles made by CB's and here are the results for our CB's:

Bly was 54th out of the CB's on tackles, putting him tied for 123 on this league Dback tackle list. Also putting himself 54th out of 64 starting CB's in the NFL.

So I am not sure this "support the run first" theory holds up because obiviously Dre Bly is no where near the top at tackling for his position league wide. If he supported the run first I would expect to see him a little higher up that list Rrgardless of how he fares on the Broncos tackling list. It is clear that he does very little in run support and a good portion of his tackles come in coverage.

Champ is 7th on the list out of cornerbacks. 4 of the 6 above him are on Tampa 2 defenses where CB's play pass first AND support the run.

Every year Champ is near the top at tackling, because he is not afraid to mix it up and support the run defense. He just does both and does both well even though his primary role is pass defense.

Also you say he has a bum shoulder, well then he shouldn't be trying to injure his other shoulder by leading with it, head down when he tackles. He needs to learn how to wrap guys up.

Do you have a link to this site I'd like to see the numbers on that site, it is not that I do not believe you I just collect these type sites for research sake.

BTW just because they force the CB to support the run first does not mean he makes tackles it means he has to wait a moment before going out into the pattern with his WR and that is what caused him to lose the last battle on the gaming winning BOMB.

He who hesitates is lost..

eessydo
11-02-2007, 02:35 PM
NFL.com

but you have to physically count through the pile because they group FS and SS together with the CB's

Lonestar
11-02-2007, 02:36 PM
I am not sure where this "he shouldn't have to be a good tackler" attitude comes from?

Tackling is the name of the game on defense, that is the action that stops the play. The fact is he SHOULD be a good tackler and there are 53 better tacklers at that SAME position. ALso he is not coming up to tackle SO I am not sure where he is exposed?????

That's like saying a running back shouldn't have to catch passes or pick up blitzes because that is not his primary role. Well guess what, that is part of the job so you better learn how to do it and do it well.

Saying he doesn't have to be good at it is just ridiculous.

there is tackling and then there is pushing someone out of bounds.. NO one will ever confuse his tackling with John Lynch's..

underrated29
11-02-2007, 02:36 PM
and in somehwat fairness to dre, his tackles are that low, because he doesnt tackle well, If he got his man down everytime like champ, (who never lets a guy run through him) then he would i think be higher maybe in the 30's, but since he sucks so bad and the guys get passed him etc. His numbers arent as good.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 02:38 PM
One other thing, we don't know if he was cinching down for the run. I am not sure why he would do that anyway considering he was on an island with the receiver.

It could be that he had a brain fart and didn't stick to his responsibility therefore losing the step and giving up the deep ball.

eessydo
11-02-2007, 02:41 PM
and in somehwat fairness to dre, his tackles are that low, because he doesnt tackle well, If he got his man down everytime like champ, (who never lets a guy run through him) then he would i think be higher maybe in the 30's, but since he sucks so bad and the guys get passed him etc. His numbers arent as good.

It is funny but sad that we are trying to be "fair" to Dre's low ranking by declaring his inability to tackle.

Sorry but this post made me laugh in a good way.

:defense::help::rofl:

omac
11-03-2007, 02:02 AM
Funny, against Pittsburgh, I was reading all these posts on how great Bly played. Now against GB, he's a sucky player.

Face it, with the nature of the corner possition, the player is one play away from playing great or sucking. Bly's a good corner who made great plays against Pittsburgh, but was beat on a major play against GB.

The primary job of a corner is coverage, such that Deon (I think it was him?) said "show me a corner who's good at tackling, and I'll show you a corner who can't cover". I don't necessarily agree with that, but if focus on tackling distracts a corner from his coverage duties, then that's not a good thing. Champ is a rareity. Historically, most good coverage corners aren't that good at tackling.

champbronc2
11-03-2007, 09:30 AM
One other thing, we don't know if he was cinching down for the run. I am not sure why he would do that anyway considering he was on an island with the receiver.

It could be that he had a brain fart and didn't stick to his responsibility therefore losing the step and giving up the deep ball.

He was trying to play the run since he doesn't trust the front 7.

He is wrong for doing that but as a team captain he probably thinks he should do something.

eessydo
11-03-2007, 10:10 AM
He was trying to play the run since he doesn't trust the front 7.

He is wrong for doing that but as a team captain he probably thinks he should do something.

Well you can make assumptions all you want, but we all know that his assignment is his assignment. It does not matter whether or not he trusts the front 7.

We could argue this all day long, Dre can't tackle enough said.

champbronc2
11-03-2007, 10:44 AM
Well you can make assumptions all you want, but we all know that his assignment is his assignment. It does not matter whether or not he trusts the front 7.

We could argue this all day long, Dre can't tackle enough said.
Well yeah, I never said he was right for doing it. Just his reasoning.

Lonestar
11-03-2007, 11:25 AM
Well you can make assumptions all you want, but we all know that his assignment is his assignment. It does not matter whether or not he trusts the front 7.

We could argue this all day long, Dre can't tackle enough said.

His assignment obviously is to watch for the run first or he would not be doing it.

If it were not for the DL inability to stop the run has caused the rest of the defense out of their primary duties.

One can hope that in the off season the DL specially the DT position is addressed since it is complete failure as we speak.

Getting back to Bly and Champ if they have to spend a split second watching for the run any good QB and WR will make them pay for that. Farve did and with all the WR's in DET even Kitna should be able to do that. That is IF they even try they just might run on the Broncos all day. Everyone else has..

The only hope we have of winning more games this year is to get up on the other team big in the first couple of possessions forcing them into or away from the eh running game. The only reason that we beat PIT was because they did not get back to running the ball sooner. The rookie HC panicked and got out of their rhythm IMHO.

DEN has some major holes to fill, biggest (pardon the pun) is at DT..

omac
11-03-2007, 12:33 PM
The only reason that we beat PIT was because they did not get back to running the ball sooner. The rookie HC panicked and got out of their rhythm IMHO.

I disagree about that point, but that was discussed at length in the other thread. :cheers:

eessydo
11-03-2007, 03:28 PM
His assignment obviously is to watch for the run first or he would not be doing it.

I am not sure how you can say this with a straight face, people do things all the time that they are not supposed to do.

Strictly speculation on your part.

Lonestar
11-03-2007, 03:33 PM
I am not sure how you can say this with a straight face, people do things all the time that they are not supposed to do.

Strictly speculation on your part.

NO if he were not supposed to do it the coaches would be in his face about it in meetings and it was not the first time this year him and Champ were doing it. Watch the tapes..

eessydo
11-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Are you sitting in those meetings?

Still no proof here Jr.

WAB
11-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Dre Bly isn't a good tackler. This is news to exactly nobody.

TXBRONC
11-03-2007, 06:21 PM
Dre Bly isn't a good tackler. This is news to exactly nobody.

Yep. As I said previously Shanahan knew what he was getting when he traded for Bly. :nod:

Lonestar
11-03-2007, 07:21 PM
Are you sitting in those meetings?

Still no proof here Jr.

Watch it on your video tapes or tivo that is how I saw him look into he back field first before following his man. If that is not clear enough for you I do not know what it will take.

If his primary duty was to play pass defense he'd be on the WR like stink on dung.. Not watching what is happening in the backfield first and then taking off on the pass route..

WAB
11-03-2007, 09:55 PM
JR that's the technique that both him and Champ employ. They watch the QB at and after the snap.

Tned
11-03-2007, 10:08 PM
JR that's the technique that both him and Champ employ. They watch the QB at and after the snap.

Yea, it's one of the reasons Champ is also such a huge factor in the run defense, and usually he is fast enough to catch up to the WR when he reads it wrong, but gets burned every once in a while, like against GB. I think the benefit to the run game probably out weighs the times he gets burned.

Bly on the other hand doesn't seem to have as much success with it. He has been beat on a fairly consistant basis, and has been helped by bad throws from QBs on several occaissions.

lex
11-03-2007, 10:13 PM
Yea, it's one of the reasons Champ is also such a huge factor in the run defense, and usually he is fast enough to catch up to the WR when he reads it wrong, but gets burned every once in a while, like against GB. I think the benefit to the run game probably out weighs the times he gets burned.

Bly on the other hand doesn't seem to have as much success with it. He has been beat on a fairly consistant basis, and has been helped by bad throws from QBs on several occaissions.

Honestly, I think if Champ was 100% he would have been able to close on that pass play. It looked like he was trying to reach a gear he normally would have but didnt on that night. But its true, Champ does have to play off his man so much that he occasionally will give something up like in the Indy game on that pass play to Clark.

Tned
11-03-2007, 10:19 PM
Honestly, I think if Champ was 100% he would have been able to close on that pass play. It looked like he was trying to reach a gear he normally would have but didnt on that night. But its true, Champ does have to play off his man so much that he occasionally will give something up like in the Indy game on that pass play to Clark.

Good point about the GB game. He had the thigh/quad injury, and that likely prevented him from gettng there. I was only fingertips away from knocking it away.

champbronc2
11-03-2007, 10:48 PM
Good point about the GB game. He had the thigh/quad injury, and that likely prevented him from gettng there. I was only fingertips away from knocking it away.

Would have stopped it for sure.

It was a matter of centimeters making those plays and I believe those quads made the difference negatively.

Lonestar
11-03-2007, 11:17 PM
JR that's the technique that both him and Champ employ. They watch the QB at and after the snap.

yes to see if they need to do run support while they are doing it the WR is flying by them. In the GB it was a fatal mistake by both..

omac
11-04-2007, 05:46 AM
yes to see if they need to do run support while they are doing it the WR is flying by them. In the GB it was a fatal mistake by both..

I don't think it's just to see if they need run support; they like to play the ball and shadow the receiver. It's a pretty high risk style. A lot of corners just try to cover their receivers and guess where the ball's coming from by the reactions of the receiver.

Lonestar
11-05-2007, 12:10 AM
I don't think it's just to see if they need run support; they like to play the ball and shadow the receiver. It's a pretty high risk style. A lot of corners just try to cover their receivers and guess where the ball's coming from by the reactions of the receiver.

did Bly play today I don't remember seeing him on the field and certainly did not here his name called.. If he did play did he touch anyone?

Sure heard every other CB's name called today..