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pegcage
09-10-2012, 01:27 AM
I know that they are trying, but they just do not measure up to the regular officials. The regulars must be laughing and saying, "Hey, the replacements are proving our case! We deserve better contracts and more money."

I watched 3 games on Sunday, concluding with the Steelers/Broncos. In all the games I watched, the officials were nothing short of awful.

In the Broncos game, several non calls went against the Broncos. The most blatant was when Peyton ran a play while the Steelers had 12 men on the field, trying to substitute. He is great at that, and with the regular officials, it is always flagged. But it was not called in the game Sunday night. There were other incidents, too. And the worse call of the night was when they allowed a play to be nullified, and Mike Tomlin to challenge a play that obviously he had by that time figured out was a bad challenge. I do not know if any of you have ever heard of the Keystone Cops of silent movie days, but that is what they look like.

The NFL must settle this deal with the officials quickly, or the entire season is going to get very poor officiating.

Simple Jaded
09-10-2012, 02:14 AM
I thought the officiating was pathetic for both sides. Among other things it looked like they got bullied into that challenge by Tomlin.......

sneakers
09-10-2012, 02:50 AM
lol we would have complained just as much about the refs if the regular ones were there and not replacements

Nomad
09-10-2012, 04:49 AM
At least we can complain about these guys and their inexperience is the excuse. What's gonna be the excuse when we complain about the reg refs when they come back.

Conclusion....fans just like to complain about the refs...period.......unless, of course , the call goes the BRONCOS way:lol:

sneakers
09-10-2012, 04:57 AM
Given what they are used to reffing (division II, last reffed 15 years ago, etc) I think the replacement refs are doing a great job! I mean, would you have the courage to go on national tv, and be the butt of all jokes?

Nomad
09-10-2012, 05:02 AM
Given what they are used to reffing (division II, last reffed 15 years ago, etc) I think the replacement refs are doing a great job! I mean, would you have the courage to go on national tv, and be the butt of all jokes?

Didn't seem to bother Kyle Orton:drum: Sorry I couldn't resist.:D

MOtorboat
09-10-2012, 07:43 AM
Now, I was watching RedZone, but I thought the crew that officiated the Denver game were, by far, the worst of the day. They bungled a lot.

Two things that will be pointed at in the media all week:
The fourth timeout granted to Seattle at the end of the game.

The missed block in the back on the Packer punt return (but, as Broncos fans know, the regular refs miss as many as five blocks in the back on punt returns too)

BroncoJoe
09-10-2012, 07:46 AM
Ditto, Mo. I'd rather have the regular officials, but in all honesty, they'd be mentioning bad calls today on all the sports channels even if the regular guys were out there...

pegcage
09-10-2012, 08:00 AM
I hardly ever criticize the real officials, because all in all, they know what they are doing. Sure, sometimes calls go against your team and you get mad. But I am saying that the replacement officials are plain incompetent. I love watching Peyton play the "mean" card and call a quick play to catch the other team with too many men on the field. Last night, the way that he lined up and the quick play should have been a signal to the officials that was what he was doing. It was inexcusable that they completely overlooked it. I bet Peyton was livid. And rightly so. They did also cost the Steelers a couple of times, too, and the most blatant was the challenge thing when Indy got an extra play, and Mike Tomlin got a red face.

CoachChaz
09-10-2012, 08:35 AM
I will agree and disagree with the sentiments in this thread. YES...we will always complain about officiating. NO...I do not believe most of us would be this disgusted with the regular referees. I expect a few bad calls and missed calls in a game. But when the referees dont even know the rules...it's absurd. I have noticed a few common things in all the games I've watched since Wednesday. Illegal formation will be called 4-5 times a game...contact wil be allowed between the WR and CB on the outside...holding never happens.

OrangeHoof
09-10-2012, 09:53 AM
While they aren't as skilled as the regular refs I think they do a decent enough job. I sat in a sports bar yesterday and watched parts of numerous games. In general, they did fine but the players have to understand the refs' instincts are not the same as the regular NFL ones. They aren't protecting the QBs and WRs as much as the regular ones which, IMO, is good news. I hate to see drives extended with candy-ass personal fouls for plays where the defender is just doing what they instinctively do or what their momentum causes them to do.

Overall, they're letting the players play, just like in the playoffs and I'm in favor of that.

Now, for things like going to the 2 minute warning before kicking the extra point, etc., that's just ticky-tack. There's no 2 minute warning in college so they aren't used to dealing with it.

And trying to catch the team with 12-men because of the hurry-up is another one they just aren't expecting. You can't expect these officials to be up on all the little tricks like a veteran NFL crew.

In general, I'm happy with their performance and whenever I see a questionable call/no call, I remind myself that I saw plenty of times where the union refs screwed up those calls too.

Fullback32
09-10-2012, 10:00 AM
I will agree and disagree with the sentiments in this thread. YES...we will always complain about officiating. NO...I do not believe most of us would be this disgusted with the regular referees. I expect a few bad calls and missed calls in a game. But when the referees dont even know the rules...it's absurd. I have noticed a few common things in all the games I've watched since Wednesday. Illegal formation will be called 4-5 times a game...contact wil be allowed between the WR and CB on the outside...holding never happens.

The rules...precisely. I know the rule book is big and there's a lot of them. I used to referee high school football back in Texas and we used the NCAA rules - big book as well - but you still need to learn it and know it. But dang it, if those guys are going to be out there, they need to know what the rules in the NFL are. Seriously refs, what is it about contact after five yards that they do not understand?

In every game I've watched this week, including the Dallas game, the replacement refs were not calling holding for the most part. Now, to be fair they were ignoring the holding rule on both sides. But still when I see clear and obvious holds, like Von or Doom being held around the neck, c'mon refs. I don't know if the NFL told them not to call it or it what, but you have to wonder considering that ALL the replacement crews seem to be following the same pattern.

Nomad
09-10-2012, 10:17 AM
I did learn last night that if they are unsure why they threw the flag, then illegal formation will be the call. :lol: I would suck as an official so I am glad it is them. Just like umping a baseball game, I tend to stray away when they look for volunteers. I am not sure what is keeping the regs and NFL apart, but if I know negotiations, the refs want more than they are worth and the NFL is being tight asses.

weazel
09-10-2012, 10:21 AM
do you not remember last season? the officiating was probably at an all time low last season, so I think they picked the wrong time to hold out for more money. The replacements are making mistakes but so did the regulars.

Dzone
09-10-2012, 10:24 AM
I dont think it affected the outcome.
The NFL rulebook has some stupid penalties anyway. The personal foul on Rahim was absurd and shouldnt have been a penalty

CoachChaz
09-10-2012, 11:03 AM
Just watch the tape of the GB-SF game. Other than our game, this was the biggest week 1 game and had by far the worst officiating. Hopefully, they'll all get better

cmc0605
09-10-2012, 11:05 AM
I only watched two games yesterday...the Denver game the GB/49ers game. In both cases the officiating was terrible (though I hear it was better for other games). The announcers in both cases were making jokes and saying "wrong call." The GB game was especially bad. An offensive lineman jumped before the snap...it was so obvious and the entire defense started pointing at him and stopped paying attention. No false start penalty. There was an obvious block in the back (two of them) on a big punt return for a TD. A flag was thrown and then picked up! Many calls were made that shouldn't have been (inconsistency) and most of the flags came out very late. It was ugly.

ForgettingBrandonMarshall
09-10-2012, 11:25 AM
My biggest issue with the replacement refs as of yesterday was ball spotting. The one play that sticks out the most was when big Ben did a QB sneak on 4th and short and they spotted it about a yard ahead of where he was. I realize that trying to spot the ball is tough job, but it just seemed as though some of their spots were not even close...

Northman
09-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Actually, the Cards/Seahawks had some bad officiating down the stretch as Pete Carroll and company got a extra timeout.

Nomad
09-10-2012, 12:01 PM
Actually, the Cards/Seahawks had some bad officiating down the stretch as Pete Carroll and company got a extra timeout.

And still lost:lol:

I give the guy some credit for admitting his screw up and will learn from his mistake.....something reg refs never do. These replacements can only get better as they get up to the speed of the game and get to know the rules better.

CoachChaz
09-10-2012, 12:32 PM
And still lost:lol:

I give the guy some credit for admitting his screw up and will learn from his mistake.....something reg refs never do. These replacements can only get better as they get up to the speed of the game and get to know the rules better.

Only because Braylon Edwards couldnt catch a cold.

rationalfan
09-10-2012, 01:29 PM
objectively, i don't think the complaints about the refs in last night's game thread were any more than complaints about the refs in any other game thread i've witnessed. the refs will always be blamed for everything; whether they're scabs or the union-approved folks.

FlyByU
09-10-2012, 01:56 PM
Out of all the games yesterday that I seen which was 6 total the refs we had last night were by far the worst. Personally I like the replacement refs better most of the time as they seem to allow the players to play and they don't throw flags on all the wimpy new NFL rules about looking at the QB wrong and stepping to close to the WR when catching the ball crap. This may all change as they get more experience with each game they will get better IMO most human beings do get better the longer they work on a job.

pegcage
09-10-2012, 02:51 PM
I have been watching Peyton play for years, and have never seen the refs miss his catching the other team with too many men on the field. At the very least you would think these college refs have seen him play. He does it almost every game. From my recliner, I know when Peyton rushes up to the line to run a play and does not wait for the play clock to wind down, he is up to something. Oh, well, as someone said, it could be worse. At least they are experienced college refs.

OrangeHoof
09-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Oh, and the other thing I like is that what looks like a catch is generally a catch just like the old days.

CoachChaz
09-10-2012, 04:34 PM
The one defense I will give the referees. The 2 biggest complaints in our game seem to be ball spotting and the 12 men on the field missed call. Both are reviewable scenarios. Foxy could have tossed the red flag on any of them and chose not to.

Collinsworth confused me on the 12 men non call. He also mentioned that "it is a reviewable call, but even if you win it, it only makes it 3rd and 12, so it may not be worth the risk." Maybe I'm crazy, but I'll take 3rd and 12 over 4th and 17 EVERY DAY

Denver Native (Carol)
09-10-2012, 04:38 PM
All replacement referee mistakes are not created equal. There are some – like the missed block in the back call on Randall Cobb's punt-return touchdown in the Green Bay-San Francisco game – that are bad, but nothing you wouldn't normally see with the regular refs. (Remember, they make just as many ticky-tack and no-calls.)

On a whole other level is stuff like this moment in Sunday night's game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Denver Broncos, when the replacement officials called for the two-minute warning in the fourth quarter after a Broncos touchdown but before Peyton Manning and company had a chance to go for a two-point conversion.

As anyone who has watched more than a handful of NFL games knows, if a touchdown is scored before the two-minute warning, the conversion comes first. An extra point or two-point conversion is an extension of the touchdown play. The clock doesn't start. Peyton Manning's twins likely knew this rule, and they're only 17 months old.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/09/replacement-refs-didnt-know-two-minute-warning-rule-/1

Denver Native (Carol)
09-10-2012, 04:40 PM
video - http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000060138/Replacement-refs-reward-Steelers-free-timeout

Denver Native (Carol)
09-10-2012, 09:34 PM
With no resolution to talks between the NFL and its locked-out referees in sight, the league has devised a schedule for replacement referees through the first five weeks of the season, a league official told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Monday.

The league and the NFL Referees Association, which covers more than 120 on-field officials, are at odds over salary, retirement benefits and operational issues.

In early June, the league locked out the officials, who are part-time NFL employees, after their collective bargaining agreement expired. The NFL Referees Association and the league met for three days at the beginning of September before talks collapsed.

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8363525/nfl-official-replacement-refs-schedule-weeks

OrangeHoof
09-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Obviously, the NFL has to plan ahead. It would be stupid to try to schedule these refs on a week-by-week basis. Of course, the head ref who worked the Wednesday night game is also working the Monday nighter in Oakland so maybe they don't have enough crews to go around.

NightTrainLayne
09-11-2012, 09:41 AM
I haven't seen enough of a negative difference to really complain about.

Most of the biggest mistakes are more procedural, i.e. 2 minute warning before XP attempt. Yeah, that might give one team or another more time to prepare, but it's not that big of a deal to me. I think the normal refs are losing leverage every day that goes by.

Ravage!!!
09-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Not me. HAD that red-flag challenge, or mssing the player come of the field, or the other really bad call (can't remember what it was at the moment) changed the outcome of the Denver Bronco game.... we would be saying more. The replacements have been bad bad. The ONLY good thing about them, is that they are tentative about throwing the PI call.... so its more fun to watch the passing game without seeing a PI call each and every time.

CoachChaz
09-11-2012, 09:49 AM
Not me. HAD that red-flag challenge, or mssing the player come of the field, or the other really bad call (can't remember what it was at the moment) changed the outcome of the Denver Bronco game.... we would be saying more. The replacements have been bad bad. The ONLY good thing about them, is that they are tentative about throwing the PI call.... so its more fun to watch the passing game without seeing a PI call each and every time.

That has been the only positive that I can come up with. In most games, the players have been allowed to play on the outside and I like that. It's the way it should be. The GB/SF game is kind of the exception. Everything got flagged in that one

Ravage!!!
09-11-2012, 09:52 AM
That has been the only positive that I can come up with. In most games, the players have been allowed to play on the outside and I like that. It's the way it should be. The GB/SF game is kind of the exception. Everything got flagged in that one

I didn't get to watch that game much. But generally, that would be the on thing I would hope the "official" officials bring from the replacements.

CoachChaz
09-11-2012, 09:58 AM
There were some PI calls on both offense and defense that were VERY questionable as well as a few non calls that were blatant. The call on Finley was the craziest. It was an obvious PI in the end zone, but the back judge didnt flag it...it came from the side. Finley got up to argue and got a little too close to Perrish Cox, who stood up and flipped Finley, then stepped on his ankle. Back judge saw none of it because he ran to the sideline to ask the other offical what he was calling.

I could go on and on about the SF/GB game. I dont think I've ever seen a more pooly officiated game. Even at the middle school/high school levels.

TXBRONC
09-11-2012, 10:07 AM
The officating isn't nearly as good with replacement refs but it isn't like it just effects the Broncos. The lower quality hits our opponents as well.

OrangeHoof
09-11-2012, 10:08 AM
Need I remind Bronco fans the worst call made by the refs during last year's playoff between the Broncos and Steelers? That backward pass in the fourth quarter that the Broncos recovered but the officials blew the whistle and awarded it to the Steelers. I've yet to see a call from the replacements as blatantly bad as that one - and that was by the union refs.

Do the replacements look shaky and unsure of themselves? Definitely. But I've yet to see anything as bad as some of the calls from last year's playoffs. I'm still miffed they gave the Patriots that touchdown where the ball hit the ground and the TE surrounded it and skidded out of the end zone. All year long we'd been told if the ball hits the ground, it's not a catch and then, magically, when the Patriots catch one like that in the end zone, it's perfectly okay.

I agree that the union is losing leverage with each game that goes by which the replacements haven't totally botched.

What does seem to get the players riled up is that a lot of the dirty play in the interior isn't being called. Once the offense figures out that it is open season again on cut blocks and chop blocks, you're going to see a lot of protests and fisticuffs from defenders.

NightTrainLayne
09-11-2012, 10:27 AM
The replacements will get better with each game, or that at least stands to reason. If so, then this last weekend was likely the worst performance we'll see overall.

As they get better with each passing week, the other side's leverage will completely disappear.

jhildebrand
09-11-2012, 10:40 AM
The replacement refs are terrible. The NFL shook the crews up at the end of the PS and added a few new ones. The game is too fast for them and it shows.

There were a couple of very poor spots that hurt the Broncos. One was a run where a Pittsburgh RB was brought down bounced and they gave them the spot after the bounce. Pitt hurried up and got the next play off which resulted in a false start. Fox couldnt challenge. The ball carrier was down 3 yards back as he was touched by Mays. The regular refs wouldn't have botched a simple play.

Missed PI calls are one thing. When they are as blatant as some have been there is no excuse for it.

About the only thing I have yet to see called (which is fine with me) is the bull spit defensive holding on a WR after 5 yards and the maintain the catch going to the ground.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-11-2012, 01:27 PM
Before assessing the accuracy of the call I'm about to make, let's establish a few truths about you, me and the NFL.

First and foremost, no matter who the referees are - in any sport, at any level - fans, coaches and players will disagree with their calls in some capacity. Let's face it, if a questionable call is made against your (or my) team, history tells us that you'll disapprove and cry foul (pun, obviously, intended).

Second, as the son of an official, I've come to learn one golden rule about officiating: The less one notices that a referee exists, the more likely it is that he or she is doing their job correctly. If coaches, players, fans or game commentators aren't fixated on the actions, or inactions, of the refs, then everyone is happy. The more anyone focuses on officials, chances are that officiating crew is having a rough day.

http://milehighsports.com/2012/09/11/its-time-for-the-nfl-to-pony-up-and-pay-the-refs/

Nomad
09-11-2012, 06:52 PM
http://milehighsports.com/2012/09/11/its-time-for-the-nfl-to-pony-up-and-pay-the-refs/

I agree with what you quoted and the griping will never stop regardless of reg refs or replacement refs.....I'm guilty of it from time to time.. I have nothing against the reg officials and ce), but without the replacements, we wouldn't be watching the NFL right now. I don't get the nitpicking and whining because we all know they are inexperienced, but we are getting to watch football.

I haven't seen/know all the details why the NFL and reg refs are apart in negotiations but what I gather is they want full time benefits for part time work.

Canmore
09-11-2012, 07:06 PM
Spotting the ball is an every down adventure. It goes downhill from there.