View Full Version : Reggie Bush: Is he overrated and overpaid?
Discuss? I dont think he is earning his pay on the field. He basically sells a lot of jerseys. In spite of what E!SPN tries to tell people his numbers arent good.
SBboundBRONCOS
10-31-2007, 08:16 PM
i think if he learns to hit a hole, i think he can be very dangerous, although i think he would make much more of an impact as a WR just because its a lot easier to get him into open space where he is probably one of the most dangerous players in the NFL
He looks like he is starting to realize what he needs to do as a RB but i do think it will take a while for him to live up to expectations.
i think if he learns to hit a hole, i think he can be very dangerous, although i think he would make much more of an impact as a WR just because its a lot easier to get him into open space where he is probably one of the most dangerous players in the NFL
He looks like he is starting to realize what he needs to do as a RB but i do think it will take a while for him to live up to expectations.
OK, much of that is obvious. Do you think he is overrated and overpaid?
Reggis Bush is a great football player all around, not a great running back. In my opinion he can be the focus point of an offense, just not specifically as a running back. However, if he is forced to run the ball twenty times that is one thing, if he is forced to run the ball in a power style................oh god.
I would love to have Reggie Bush on my team.
SBboundBRONCOS
10-31-2007, 09:51 PM
OK, much of that is obvious. Do you think he is overrated and overpaid?
ok then
no and no
Cleveland Rocks
11-01-2007, 12:24 AM
No,
He reminds me of a young Eric Metcalf.
Just don't have him run up the middle like Bellichick did (with Metcalf).
No,
He reminds me of a young Eric Metcalf.
Just don't have him run up the middle like Bellichick did (with Metcalf).
Yeah, Eric Metcalf is exactly who he is. He's more him than Marshall Faulk. People keep comparing him to Marshall Faulk but thats an insult to Marshall Faulk. Eric Metcalf was a nice player but he didnt get the hype Bush gets.
What I don't like about him is something a sportscaster mentioned; he's been terrible after contact. He doesn't drive through and gain the hard yards. In that case, he's much similar to Tatum Bell. Unless he undergoes a drastic transformation, he's better off catching passes and going to the outside. I agree with King87, he's an excellent all-around football player, but he's lacking in some important runningback physicalness.
What I don't like about him is something a sportscaster mentioned; he's been terrible after contact. He doesn't drive through and gain the hard yards. In that case, he's much similar to Tatum Bell. Unless he undergoes a drastic transformation, he's better off catching passes and going to the outside. I agree with King87, he's an excellent all-around football player, but he's lacking in some important runningback physicalness.
I dont get how he is a great all around football player when he's not all around great at his position? How does that make any sense. To be an all around great player, you should at least be able to play your position first and then add the extras like blocking, tackling, catching etc. But if youre a RB and you cant run between the tackles, youre not usually a good running back, let alone all around FB player.
I dont get how he is a great all around football player when he's not all around great at his position? How does that make any sense. To be an all around great player, you should at least be able to play your position first and then add the extras like blocking, tackling, catching etc. But if youre a RB and you cant run between the tackles, youre not usually a good running back, let alone all around FB player.
He can run to the outside just as well as anyone else can. He is already one of the best pass catching RBs in the game today, and that skill has overtaken blocking in importance in this offensive day and age. Give him some time before you say he cannot run up the gut, Willie Parker couldn't do that his first year and he has gotten better at it. He is a true TD threat every time he catches the ball, and he can play WR. It does make sense, perfect sense. He is not great at anything other then going to the outside, but he has such a broad skill set that it more then makes up for that.
You have to adjust your offense a little for him, but barring QB you have to do that anyway. If you have a power back then most of the time you need offensive lineman who are specifically good at putting up holes in the middle of the field. If you have a speed back you need your lineman to be able to block accordingly. So what if he may require you to have another RB that is your bruiser? Take a look at a lot of the winning teams in the NFL and you will see a two back system.
He can run to the outside just as well as anyone else can. He is already one of the best pass catching RBs in the game today, and that skill has overtaken blocking in importance in this offensive day and age. Give him some time before you say he cannot run up the gut, Willie Parker couldn't do that his first year and he has gotten better at it. He is a true TD threat every time he catches the ball, and he can play WR. It does make sense, perfect sense. He is not great at anything other then going to the outside, but he has such a broad skill set that it more then makes up for that.
You have to adjust your offense a little for him, but barring QB you have to do that anyway. If you have a power back then most of the time you need offensive lineman who are specifically good at putting up holes in the middle of the field. If you have a speed back you need your lineman to be able to block accordingly. So what if he may require you to have another RB that is your bruiser? Take a look at a lot of the winning teams in the NFL and you will see a two back system.
Yeah, yeah. I hear a lot of arguments for him being a good WR, not being a good RB. Running inside is a big part of playing RB and he's not getting it done there. No one ever has disputed that he has value as a receiving threat but thats not the bigger part of his position. A lot of teams have two backs but you have to drill into it more. Basically, youre argument is that he's a half RB and thats exactly the same thing Im saying. Im just not looking past the RB part.
I dont get how he is a great all around football player when he's not all around great at his position? How does that make any sense. To be an all around great player, you should at least be able to play your position first and then add the extras like blocking, tackling, catching etc. But if youre a RB and you cant run between the tackles, youre not usually a good running back, let alone all around FB player.
What do you have against Reggie Bush? Did you pick him in your ff league or something? :D
First of all, I didn't say a great player, I said an excellent all-around player. There are different aspects to a runningback as well as different styles of running. Guys like Marcus Allen and Barry Sanders made their money making people miss. Guys like TD would hit the whole explossively and take defenders with him. Roger Craig got tons of receiving yards for SF, even having a 1,000 yard receiving season. Then there are the hulking goal-line backs specifically for short yardage.
Different styles for different players. The only important thing is if what he brings to his team is of value. Currently, Reggie Bush has pretty good speed going to the outside, and he's pretty good at catching. We have yet to see if he can get better going inside, but he's only in his 2nd season in the NFL, and only now is he being called to handle the load without McAllister.
Bush was a big part reason NO reached the NFC championship game, so his value shouldn't be underestimated, even though it's pretty vogue right now to be down on him, just like it was vogue last year to be up on him.
Yeah, yeah. I hear a lot of arguments for him being a good WR, not being a good RB. Running inside is a big part of playing RB and he's not getting it done there. No one ever has disputed that he has value as a receiving threat but thats not the bigger part of his position. A lot of teams have two backs but you have to drill into it more. Basically, youre argument is that he's a half RB and thats exactly the same thing Im saying. Im just not looking past the RB part.
And neither am I. He is a great outside runner, so is Willie Parker. Parker was absolute trash up the gut in his first year and he slowly adapted. Bush is learning to to that now. He was not asked to do it last year or in college. How many running backs can catch the ball out of the back field and play WR? How many running backs are better when they go to the outside then Bush? I am not saying that Bush is nearly as good as Barry Sanders, but Barry Sanders couldn't go up the gut to save his life. Is he overhyped? Maybe, I mean last year LT was overhyped when he was being called the best running back ever. I mean you can overhype Manning or Brady if you call them the best ever at their respective postion.
I may give you overpaid because he was paid number one first pick money when he was not.;)
Over rated, no. Over paid, yes (what athlete isn't?).
Reggie Bush is one of the best pure athletes the NFL has seen in quite some time. I'll be willing to put money on him putting on 10-15 pounds in the off-season. He'll be good at running up the gut soon enough. As soon as he is, I'll make sure and bring this thread back up.
bengaaaaals1688
11-02-2007, 01:26 PM
And neither am I. He is a great outside runner, so is Willie Parker. Parker was absolute trash up the gut in his first year and he slowly adapted. Bush is learning to to that now. He was not asked to do it last year or in college. How many running backs can catch the ball out of the back field and play WR? How many running backs are better when they go to the outside then Bush? I am not saying that Bush is nearly as good as Barry Sanders, but Barry Sanders couldn't go up the gut to save his life. Is he overhyped? Maybe, I mean last year LT was overhyped when he was being called the best running back ever. I mean you can overhype Manning or Brady if you call them the best ever at their respective postion.
I may give you overpaid because he was paid number one first pick money when he was not.;)
A large reason why Barry couldn't go up the middle wasn't him... it was his lack of anything resembling an offensive line. When Barry did hit the middle he actually performed much better than many will give him credit for. He was a small quick guy, but he had extremely strong legs.
As for Bush... as a football player, I will give him good-great... as a pure RB I will not. I realize he is in only his second year, and I also realize that he was only even thrown into as much action as he is because Deuce got hurt, but Bush can only do really good things when he has an open field. Give him a very small area to work with and he isn't going to do much, which is why he has problems going up the middle, because he can't just rely on speed and lateral movement when going up the middle.
eessydo
11-02-2007, 03:09 PM
A large reason why Barry couldn't go up the middle wasn't him... it was his lack of anything resembling an offensive line. When Barry did hit the middle he actually performed much better than many will give him credit for. He was a small quick guy, but he had extremely strong legs.
Barry ran behind Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover, both pro-bowlers. What do you mean he didn't have anything resembling and offensive line?
Lomas Brown will probably be in the Hall of Fame having made the pro-bowl 7 times from 90-96.
Glover made the pro bowl for 3 consecutive years at Center from 96-98.
You are just making crap up...
bengaaaaals1688
11-02-2007, 04:44 PM
Barry ran behind Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover, both pro-bowlers. What do you mean he didn't have anything resembling and offensive line?
Lomas Brown will probably be in the Hall of Fame having made the pro-bowl 7 times from 90-96.
Glover made the pro bowl for 3 consecutive years at Center from 96-98.
You are just making crap up...
2 lineman does not make a great line. Ever wonder why Barry had to make everything happen on his own?? Every wonder why there were always defenders in the backfield before he even got the ball?? You are the only person who will ever say that Barry Sanders had a good offensive line in front of him.:rolleyes:
Over rated, no. Over paid, yes (what athlete isn't?).
Reggie Bush is one of the best pure athletes the NFL has seen in quite some time. I'll be willing to put money on him putting on 10-15 pounds in the off-season. He'll be good at running up the gut soon enough. As soon as he is, I'll make sure and bring this thread back up.
Go ahead. The fact is that he was being compared to guys like Marshall Faulk, Barry Sanders, Tony Dorsett, etc. But look at the stats of any of those players in their first two years. Face it. His production as a running back sucks. And everyone keeps trying to pretend that its normal for RBs to take two or 3 years to come around...this is garbage. Every player I mentioned, (ie the players he was commonly compared to) started producing in year 1. So even if he does come around, its taken him longer than normal to do it...it will be a waste of at least 2 years.
2 lineman does not make a great line. Ever wonder why Barry had to make everything happen on his own?? Every wonder why there were always defenders in the backfield before he even got the ball?? You are the only person who will ever say that Barry Sanders had a good offensive line in front of him.:rolleyes:
He had two pro bowl offensive line man and a very good WR on his team. Barry Sanders gets a pass on his ineffectiveness up the gut and lack of red zone production because he is classy and fun to watch.
And often times two offensive lineman does make a bad line good. The Bengals have no real stand out lineman barring Jones and Anderson. The Ravens had only one standout lineman in Ogden. The Seahawks had Hutchinson and Jones. If you expect to have three offensive lineman who are standout players then you have extremely high expectations.
bengaaaaals1688
11-03-2007, 09:23 AM
He had two pro bowl offensive line man and a very good WR on his team. Barry Sanders gets a pass on his ineffectiveness up the gut and lack of red zone production because he is classy and fun to watch.
And often times two offensive lineman does make a bad line good. The Bengals have no real stand out lineman barring Jones and Anderson. The Ravens had only one standout lineman in Ogden. The Seahawks had Hutchinson and Jones. If you expect to have three offensive lineman who are standout players then you have extremely high expectations.
He had 2 Pro Bowl lineman... you are correct, however, one of those lineman wasn't Pro Bowl until after the other left. Lomas Brown left in 1995, and Kevin Glover wasn't a Pro Bowler until 1996. Yes, they were good lineman, but as is accepted by almost every fan who watched Barry run and who watches replays of games of him now he didn't have good blocking. If his line really was good, regardless of how many good linemen were there, then he wouldn't have had to make so many plays out of nothing all the time.
And we didn't have standout linemen, we had consistently good linemen to go with Jones and Anderson. Braham, Steinbach, and Williams were very good for us in 2005... Steinbach still would be if he was here, and Williams is underrated by even Bengals fans. You don't need the rest of the line to be great in order for standout's to make you better, but you can't take a line that sucks and make it better with 1 or 2 standouts. The rest of the line still needs to be at least somewhat decent, by NFL standards, or those 2 standouts will mean nothing.
He had 2 Pro Bowl lineman... you are correct, however, one of those lineman wasn't Pro Bowl until after the other left. Lomas Brown left in 1995, and Kevin Glover wasn't a Pro Bowler until 1996. Yes, they were good lineman, but as is accepted by almost every fan who watched Barry run and who watches replays of games of him now he didn't have good blocking. If his line really was good, regardless of how many good linemen were there, then he wouldn't have had to make so many plays out of nothing all the time.
And we didn't have standout linemen, we had consistently good linemen to go with Jones and Anderson. Braham, Steinbach, and Williams were very good for us in 2005... Steinbach still would be if he was here, and Williams is underrated by even Bengals fans. You don't need the rest of the line to be great in order for standout's to make you better, but you can't take a line that sucks and make it better with 1 or 2 standouts. The rest of the line still needs to be at least somewhat decent, by NFL standards, or those 2 standouts will mean nothing.
Levi Jones and Willie Anderson are two standout lineman. Willie Anderson is walking to the hall of fame, just because 95 percent of the ppl who watch football have no clue who he is doesn't mean anything. There is a reason why we paid Levi Jones and drafted him where we drafted him. Steinbach was an above average lineman who went to a team that needed anybody with skills and he got paid a kings ransom for someone of his ability.
People make excuses for players that they love all the time. You make excuses for Rudi, I make excuses for Palmer. Barry Sanders never had a great team around him, but people make it out to sound like it was Barry Sanders versus the world every Sunday.
Levi Jones and Willie Anderson are two standout lineman. Willie Anderson is walking to the hall of fame, just because 95 percent of the ppl who watch football have no clue who he is doesn't mean anything. There is a reason why we paid Levi Jones and drafted him where we drafted him. Steinbach was an above average lineman who went to a team that needed anybody with skills and he got paid a kings ransom for someone of his ability.
People make excuses for players that they love all the time. You make excuses for Rudi, I make excuses for Palmer. Barry Sanders never had a great team around him, but people make it out to sound like it was Barry Sanders versus the world every Sunday.
Honestly, I think the reason it gets characterized as Sanders' line was garbage is because back at that time, the discussion was often Emmitt vs Barry and Dallas had a legendary offensive line at the time. So in relation to Dallas, Detroits OLine wasnt so special and so people referring to Sanders line in negative terms were doing so in relation to what Dallas had. And now years later people still say this but forget the context for why Sanders line being characterized as bad was dont to begin with. In other words, there was a time when this was correct in comparison to the cowboys but the characterization moved forward with time but the context didnt.
Simple Jaded
11-03-2007, 09:16 PM
"......but Barry Sanders couldn't go up the gut to save his life." :rolleyes:
15000+ yards running outside the tackles?
Can we get a round of applause for this brilliant logic.
As for Bush...'Overhyped' is an even better word, he isn't nearly the back he was supposed to be....
"......but Barry Sanders couldn't go up the gut to save his life." :rolleyes:
15000+ yards running outside the tackles?
Can we get a round of applause for this brilliant logic.
As for Bush...'Overhyped' is an even better word, he isn't nearly the back he was supposed to be....
I don't know what Barry Sander games you where watching..........
And yeah, you probably should give me a round of appluase just to show me how much you love me.;)
This is the middle of his second year. For the love of god give him some time. So far all he has done is become one of the best outside runners and certainly the one of the most versatile running backs in the game. Yeah, he is a bust.:elefant:;)
Honestly, I think the reason it gets characterized as Sanders' line was garbage is because back at that time, the discussion was often Emmitt vs Barry and Dallas had a legendary offensive line at the time. So in relation to Dallas, Detroits OLine wasnt so special and so people referring to Sanders line in negative terms were doing so in relation to what Dallas had. And now years later people still say this but forget the context for why Sanders line being characterized as bad was dont to begin with. In other words, there was a time when this was correct in comparison to the cowboys but the characterization moved forward with time but the context didnt.
Pssst, logic isn't allowed here at all. Barry Sanders was a god who played on a team that had offensive lineman who weight a combined total of 14 pounds. Reggie Bush is a total bust and he has shown that he is overrated. That is the truth.:beer::D
dogfish
11-03-2007, 10:01 PM
hell yes he's overrated! he's a one-dimensional, glorified change of pace back who doesn't make the big plays to support his reputation-- people act like he's some sort of amazing gamebreaker, but the hard cold truth is that it's halfway through the season and he doesn't have a single play longer than 25 yards. . . he's a slot receiver who lines up in the backfield-- i've said before and will say again, mojo drew is a better player. . . reggie's a quality scatback who was vastly overdrafted and needs to raise his game about ten notches to ever come close to matching his hype. . . he's got a big reputation because of what he did in college, but in the pros he can't hold a candle to a guy like faulk, or even brian westbrook. . .
hell yes he's overrated! he's a one-dimensional, glorified change of pace back who doesn't make the big plays to support his reputation-- people act like he's some sort of amazing gamebreaker, but the hard cold truth is that it's halfway through the season and he doesn't have a single play longer than 25 yards. . . he's a slot receiver who lines up in the backfield-- i've said before and will say again, mojo drew is a better player. . . reggie's a quality scatback who was vastly overdrafted and needs to raise his game about ten notches to ever come close to matching his hype. . . he's got a big reputation because of what he did in college, but in the pros he can't hold a candle to a guy like faulk, or even brian westbrook. . .
Funny you should mention Westbrook. It took Westbrook several years before he could handle being an every down RB.
Marshall Faulk is one of the best players ever, let alone RB. You could very well end up in the hall of fame as a RB and not be as good as Marshall Faulk.
Bush is a "slot" reciever that lines up in the back field and as a WR and can make an impact on special teams. I think people kind of line up to hate on Bush because of the hype he got, and I fail to see how he is overrated when a lot of the analysists are not so hot on him currently.
dogfish
11-03-2007, 11:14 PM
Funny you should mention Westbrook. It took Westbrook several years before he could handle being an every down RB.
Marshall Faulk is one of the best players ever, let alone RB. You could very well end up in the hall of fame as a RB and not be as good as Marshall Faulk.
Bush is a "slot" reciever that lines up in the back field and as a WR and can make an impact on special teams. I think people kind of line up to hate on Bush because of the hype he got, and I fail to see how he is overrated when a lot of the analysists are not so hot on him currently.
i'm not "hating on him," i'm simply pointing out that he doesn't produce the way the #2 overall pick in the draft should. . . the best comparison for reggie is mojo drew, who was drafted towards the end of the 2nd round-- about where reggie SHOULD have been drafted. . . drew has outproduced and outplayed him both of their first two years now. . .
i'm not buying the "give him several years" stuff, either. . . running back is THE easiest position to transition from college to the NFL-- if you're any good. . . westbrook didn't take several years to develop-- he simply didn't get the opportunities because duce staley was starting and doing a solid job, and andy reid likes to lean on his vets. . . westbrook averaged 4.2 yards per carry as a rookie, and 5.2 his second year. . . he was good right out of the box, and if anything he was limited by some injuries and because they were using him more on special teams and didn't initially think he was big enough or durable enough to be a fulltime runner. . .
let's compare reggie's production to how some of the other backs from his draft class are doing this year. . .
reggie bush - 362 rushing yards (3.8) 234 rec. yards (5.4)
deangelo williams - 303 rushing yards (5.2) 79 rec. yards (5.6)
laurence maroney - 358 rushing yards (4.8)
lendale white - 513 rushing yards (3.7) 56 rec. yards (5.6)
jerious norwood - 272 rushing yards (5.8) 143 rec. yards (8.4)
maurice jones-drew - 407 rushing yards (5.3) 176 rec. yards (9.8)
so where is reggie any better than any of them? only lendale is averaging fewer yards per carry, and none of them are averaging lower yards per catch. . . also, bush is supposed to be so multi-purpose, but he hasn't been used on returns at all this year-- toss in MJD's 500+ return yards, and their value isn't even comparable. . . PLUS, MJD is an excellent goal line and short yardage back, and a very competent blocker for his size-- reggie is useless in the red zone and couldn't block a cornerback, let alone a linebacker. . . MJD outproduced him last year, he's outproducing him this year, and he is more versatile and a better football player. . . the only area where reggie beats him out is number of commercials. . . :lol: :pound:
we won't even compare reggie to joseph addai-- that would just make reg look bad. . .
fair or not, when you're a #2 draft pick in the best draft class in a decade, people expect you to put up elite production-- the way adrian peterson is right now. . . bush was solid last year, but no where near an elite level-- this year he isn't producing worth crap. . . look at what AD is doing with an absolute junk offense in minnesota-- that's the kind of production bush should be putting up if he's going to live up to his hype. . . until he can do that, he is massively overrated and overpaid. . . IMO it's not about potential, skill level, pure athletic ability, system, or anything else-- the bottom line is production, and his is nothing special at all. . .
EDIT: after reading your post a second time, maybe we're just not in agreement as to how highly he's rated. . . i guess there's no real way to measure that, though. . . i certainly see his mug on about a thousand commercials, and hear an awful lot from fans about how electric he is and all that, when he's really not. . . but if we were, hypothetically, to agree that he is rated as an average player, then i would retract my belief that he's overrated. . . but in all honesty i don't see him being rated that way in the court of public opinion. . . overpaid, i think is beyond argument. . .
i'm not "hating on him," i'm simply pointing out that he doesn't produce the way the #2 overall pick in the draft should. . . the best comparison for reggie is mojo drew, who was drafted towards the end of the 2nd round-- about where reggie SHOULD have been drafted. . . drew has outproduced and outplayed him both of their first two years now. . .
i'm not buying the "give him several years" stuff, either. . . running back is THE easiest position to transition from college to the NFL-- if you're any good. . . westbrook didn't take several years to develop-- he simply didn't get the opportunities because duce staley was starting and doing a solid job, and andy reid likes to lean on his vets. . . westbrook averaged 4.2 yards per carry as a rookie, and 5.2 his second year. . . he was good right out of the box, and if anything he was limited by some injuries and because they were using him more on special teams and didn't initially think he was big enough or durable enough to be a fulltime runner. . .
let's compare reggie's production to how some of the other backs from his draft class are doing this year. . .
reggie bush - 362 rushing yards (3.8) 234 rec. yards (5.4)
deangelo williams - 303 rushing yards (5.2) 79 rec. yards (5.6)
laurence maroney - 358 rushing yards (4.8)
lendale white - 513 rushing yards (3.7) 56 rec. yards (5.6)
jerious norwood - 272 rushing yards (5.8) 143 rec. yards (8.4)
maurice jones-drew - 407 rushing yards (5.3) 176 rec. yards (9.8)
so where is reggie any better than any of them? only lendale is averaging fewer yards per carry, and none of them are averaging lower yards per catch. . . also, bush is supposed to be so multi-purpose, but he hasn't been used on returns at all this year-- toss in MJD's 500+ return yards, and their value isn't even comparable. . . PLUS, MJD is an excellent goal line and short yardage back, and a very competent blocker for his size-- reggie is useless in the red zone and couldn't block a cornerback, let alone a linebacker. . . MJD outproduced him last year, he's outproducing him this year, and he is more versatile and a better football player. . . the only area where reggie beats him out is number of commercials. . . :lol: :pound:
we won't even compare reggie to joseph addai-- that would just make reg look bad. . .
fair or not, when you're a #2 draft pick in the best draft class in a decade, people expect you to put up elite production-- the way adrian peterson is right now. . . bush was solid last year, but no where near an elite level-- this year he isn't producing worth crap. . . look at what AD is doing with an absolute junk offense in minnesota-- that's the kind of production bush should be putting up if he's going to live up to his hype. . . until he can do that, he is massively overrated and overpaid. . . IMO it's not about potential, skill level, pure athletic ability, system, or anything else-- the bottom line is production, and his is nothing special at all. . .
EDIT: after reading your post a second time, maybe we're just not in agreement as to how highly he's rated. . . i guess there's no real way to measure that, though. . . i certainly see his mug on about a thousand commercials, and hear an awful lot from fans about how electric he is and all that, when he's really not. . . but if we were, hypothetically, to agree that he is rated as an average player, then i would retract my belief that he's overrated. . . but in all honesty i don't see him being rated that way in the court of public opinion. . . overpaid, i think is beyond argument. . .
I have to stand by my argument about give him some time. Adrian Peterson is the exception, not the rule. And I think that Reggie Bush is being groomed to be a monster in the two back system which is fine. MJD is a little back that is going up the gut.....odds are that he won't last very long. At best he has the career of Warrick Dunn, which is solid but........not all that great with respect to Warrick Dunn. Even if Bush only improves a little going up the middle and stays the way he is as far as receptions and playing WR he is a very fine player.
I have to stand by my argument about give him some time. Adrian Peterson is the exception, not the rule. And I think that Reggie Bush is being groomed to be a monster in the two back system which is fine. MJD is a little back that is going up the gut.....odds are that he won't last very long. At best he has the career of Warrick Dunn, which is solid but........not all that great with respect to Warrick Dunn. Even if Bush only improves a little going up the middle and stays the way he is as far as receptions and playing WR he is a very fine player.
Wow,...just wow.
Wow,...just wow.
If you are going to offer an argument then do so. Three words and puncuation isn't much of one. Give me something to reply with other then wow...just wow..
If you are going to offer an argument then do so. Three words and puncuation isn't much of one. Give me something to reply with other then wow...just wow..
Dogfish pretty well covered it. That you responded with that is "wow,...just wow." Basically, I stand by everything Dogfish said and would really underscore the point he made about the whole notion that it takes 2 years for a RB to develop is nonsense. Deuce McAllisters YPC was about a yard better than Bushs last year and thats even with Bush being in a position to have his YPC optimized. By that I mean, he didnt carry a lot so he wasnt exactly the focal point of the defense, plus most of his big runs were on reverses and such. If you take away running yardage from when he lined up as WR and look purely at when he lined up as a RB, its not pretty.
The fact is though that Bush has paid off for the Saints since theyve sold a ton of merchandise driven by his appeal but on the field, Dogfish nailed it.
bengaaaaals1688
11-04-2007, 01:26 AM
I have to stand by my argument about give him some time. Adrian Peterson is the exception, not the rule. And I think that Reggie Bush is being groomed to be a monster in the two back system which is fine. MJD is a little back that is going up the gut.....odds are that he won't last very long. At best he has the career of Warrick Dunn, which is solid but........not all that great with respect to Warrick Dunn. Even if Bush only improves a little going up the middle and stays the way he is as far as receptions and playing WR he is a very fine player.
Warrick Dunn is one of if I remember correctly, 5 active players to have 10,000 yards rushing. Warrick Dunn has always been a great RB, but unfortunately he was stuck by a man who made Larry Czonka look like a speed back more than a power back. If you watch Dunn run, he is one of the best pure runners in the league, extremely powerful legs, very agile, and amazing vision. He also rarely fumbles. With that point made, I don't expect Bush to ever compare to Dunn as a pure RB.
Warrick Dunn is one of if I remember correctly, 5 active players to have 10,000 yards rushing. Warrick Dunn has always been a great RB, but unfortunately he was stuck by a man who made Larry Czonka look like a speed back more than a power back. If you watch Dunn run, he is one of the best pure runners in the league, extremely powerful legs, very agile, and amazing vision. He also rarely fumbles. With that point made, I don't expect Bush to ever compare to Dunn as a pure RB.
New players come into the league all the time and have good careers like his. I mean he is barely better then Fred Taylor.....Fred Taylor. Warrick Dunn is not one of the best pure runners in the NFL, he isn't even a top 10 RB right now.
bengaaaaals1688
11-04-2007, 10:49 AM
New players come into the league all the time and have good careers like his. I mean he is barely better then Fred Taylor.....Fred Taylor. Warrick Dunn is not one of the best pure runners in the NFL, he isn't even a top 10 RB right now.
Fred Taylor is a great RB who had the unfortunate bad luck of being injured very often. There are 2 players that have over 10,000 yards out of 20 that are not in the HOF, and more than likely after this week Taylor will have 10,000 yards. There is a very good chance that Taylor ends up in the Hall.
Fred Taylor is a great RB who had the unfortunate bad luck of being injured very often. There are 2 players that have over 10,000 yards out of 20 that are not in the HOF, and more than likely after this week Taylor will have 10,000 yards. There is a very good chance that Taylor ends up in the Hall.
If Fragile Fred gets in the hall of fame every single last member in that hall should revolt.
bengaaaaals1688
11-04-2007, 01:04 PM
If Fragile Fred gets in the hall of fame every single last member in that hall should revolt.
As I said, 18 of 20 RB's who have 10,000 yards are in the HOF... the 2 that aren't, are Edgerrin James, and Tiki Barber... neither of which is eligible for the HOF because James is playing and Barber just retired. He can be Fragile Fred, but he will still end his career with over 10,000 yards rushing, and that is nothing to laugh at.
Simple Jaded
11-07-2007, 12:46 AM
I don't know what Barry Sander games you where watching..........
And yeah, you probably should give me a round of appluase just to show me how much you love me.;)
This is the middle of his second year. For the love of god give him some time. So far all he has done is become one of the best outside runners and certainly the one of the most versatile running backs in the game. Yeah, he is a bust.:elefant:;)
Holy crap, you were serious?!?!?!
And I didn't say Bush was a bust, read the post again.....
silkamilkamonico
11-08-2007, 11:52 AM
Bush is every bit as important as making that New Orleans offensive machine go.
He's not a true "runner" in the sense, but he's a matchup nightmare, and the defense always knows where he is when he's out on the field.
Requiem / The Dagda
11-08-2007, 11:46 PM
Bush is an amazing athlete that has the capabilities of doing big things for the Saints. He's averaging over 100 yards of total offense a game. That's special. He's a utility player who can return kicks, catch balls and run the ball. He has a ways to go, but he's a special player in his own right.
Is he overpaid? Absolutely. All the top choices are overpaid.
Simple Jaded
11-09-2007, 02:14 AM
Bush was supposed to be "The Next Gayle Sayers" or at least "The Next Marshall Faulk"....The fact is, so far he's "The Next Eric Metcalf"....
He's closer to Kevin Faulk than Marshall Faulk.
He was over-hyped and over-drafted, imo!
Nothing special....
It has been mentioned that he is the lynch pin of that offense. He makes that offense go. It was also mentioned that he averages 100 total yards of offense a game, that is nothing to sneeze at. It isn't that he is bad, it is the simple fact that it takes a little more then going umm look at his yards to see if he is a good back.
dogfish
11-09-2007, 05:51 PM
It has been mentioned that he is the lynch pin of that offense. He makes that offense go. It was also mentioned that he averages 100 total yards of offense a game, that is nothing to sneeze at. It isn't that he is bad, it is the simple fact that it takes a little more then going umm look at his yards to see if he is a good back.
Bush is an amazing athlete that has the capabilities of doing big things for the Saints. He's averaging over 100 yards of total offense a game. That's special. He's a utility player who can return kicks, catch balls and run the ball. He has a ways to go, but he's a special player in his own right.
Is he overpaid? Absolutely. All the top choices are overpaid.
close, he's actually averaging 91.4 yards of total production per game-- while jerious norwood is averaging 134.5 total yards, and mojo drew is averaging 147.7 total yards. . . . but you don't see those guys on 12 commercials per day, and they don't talk about them every time their teams are mentioned on sportscenter-- or pretty much anywhere else. . . you rarely if ever see them described as the "lynchpin of their offense". . . which i don't buy anyways-- certainly he's a factor, but drew brees is an excellent QB, they have solid talent on the line, and marques colston is a quality WR. . . put another talented young RB on that O, and they'd be just fine without reggie. . .
he's a talented player, no argument, but i just fail to see where he's any more valuable to his team than any of the other good young backs in the league, other than marketing. . . so his skill set may be a bit different-- big deal! he's not the only back who can line up in the slot-- LT used to line up out wide and run downfield routes, and steven jackson caught more passes than reggie last year. . . IMO people make too much of his versatility when he can't do the number one basic thing a RB is supposed to do-- run between the tackles. . . he's made out to be this amazing, unique talent, but when you get right down to production, what's he doing that no one else can do. . . ?? :confused: who cares if he catches more passes and runs some different plays-- when you get right down to it, yards are yards and scores are scores, and he's not putting up enough of either to justify the hype. . . solid player, but he's not better than the other good backs from his draft class, and IMO is not as good as addai or mojo. . .
close, he's actually averaging 91.4 yards of total production per game-- while jerious norwood is averaging 134.5 total yards, and mojo drew is averaging 147.7 total yards. . . . but you don't see those guys on 12 commercials per day, and they don't talk about them every time their teams are mentioned on sportscenter-- or pretty much anywhere else. . . you rarely if ever see them described as the "lynchpin of their offense". . . which i don't buy anyways-- certainly he's a factor, but drew brees is an excellent QB, they have solid talent on the line, and marques colston is a quality WR. . . put another talented young RB on that O, and they'd be just fine without reggie. . .
he's a talented player, no argument, but i just fail to see where he's any more valuable to his team than any of the other good young backs in the league, other than marketing. . . so his skill set may be a bit different-- big deal! he's not the only back who can line up in the slot-- LT used to line up out wide and run downfield routes, and steven jackson caught more passes than reggie last year. . . IMO people make too much of his versatility when he can't do the number one basic thing a RB is supposed to do-- run between the tackles. . . he's made out to be this amazing, unique talent, but when you get right down to production, what's he doing that no one else can do. . . ?? :confused: who cares if he catches more passes and runs some different plays-- when you get right down to it, yards are yards and scores are scores, and he's not putting up enough of either to justify the hype. . . solid player, but he's not better than the other good backs from his draft class, and IMO is not as good as addai or mojo. . .
Stephen Jackson caught all of his passes behind the line of scrimmage, he is FAR less versatile in the passing game then Bush is. And what a RB is supposed to do varies for each team, to limit it to saying that a RB is supposed to do one basic single thing is absurd. In modern day of dominant offenses running between the tackles has lost a lot of luster. Heck, last year Addai was not that great going up the middle. I think it is a waste of time to hold it against someone about their hype, people last year where hyping LT as the greatest back ever (which is so far from the truth that it isn't even funny), does that diminish how good he is?
Reggie Bush can catch passes anywhere on the field, he can run outside well and he sets up his entire offense. This year I see him making great moves and getting extra yards all the time. And as far as doing what others cannot, I don't think you can name very many RBs who can score the TD that he did against the bears in the playoffs.
dogfish
11-09-2007, 06:12 PM
Stephen Jackson caught all of his passes behind the line of scrimmage, he is FAR less versatile in the passing game then Bush is. And what a RB is supposed to do varies for each team, to limit it to saying that a RB is supposed to do one basic single thing is absurd. In modern day of dominant offenses running between the tackles has lost a lot of luster. Heck, last year Addai was not that great going up the middle. I think it is a waste of time to hold it against someone about their hype, people last year where hyping LT as the greatest back ever (which is so far from the truth that it isn't even funny), does that diminish how good he is?
Reggie Bush can catch passes anywhere on the field, he can run outside well and he sets up his entire offense. This year I see him making great moves and getting extra yards all the time. And as far as doing what others cannot, I don't think you can name very many RBs who can score the TD that he did against the bears in the playoffs.
perfect example of the overhyping of reggie bush! you say that SJax caught most of his passes behind the LOS, and that reggie "can catch passes anywhere on the field". . . so what? he's still averaging less than 6 yards per reception this year, where SJ averaged 9 yards per reception last year-- so are reggie's receptions more valuable because he runs different routes? what does it matter if he isn't doing anything once he gets the ball?? production, production, production. . .
also, i didn't say that his inability to run between the tackles diminishes how good he is-- i said that his versatility is overrated because he doesn't run the ball well very well. . .
somethig else worth mentioning is that he is the starter for his team-- players like mojo and norwood are not only outproducing him, they're doing it with fewer opportunities. . .
dogfish
11-09-2007, 06:14 PM
also. . . it seems that some of reggie's teammates may be getting a little tired of the ridiculous hype. . . from PFT:
POSTED 3:42 p.m. EST; UPDATED 4:07 p.m. EST, November 9, 2007
REGGIE STIRRING UP RESENTMENT
With all the talk lately of Reggie Bush's off-field interests and exploits, at least one of his teammates has been motivated to offer up some private criticism.
In the wake of the news that Bush has parted ways with marketing agent Mike Ornstein, the teammate said, "Reggie needs to stop worrying about ***ing Hollywood and focus on rushing for more than 100 yards in a game."
Ouch.
It's harsh, but it's not surprising. The whole "Saint Reggie" image and the millions in non-football money is certain to prompt some of the other 52 guys in the locker room not to like him -- especially when his production is languishing behind other running backs drafted in 2006, and some of the ones drafted in 2007.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
perfect example of the overhyping of reggie bush! you say that SJax caught most of his passes behind the LOS, and that reggie "can catch passes anywhere on the field". . . so what? he's still averaging less than 6 yards per reception this year, where SJ averaged 9 yards per reception last year-- so are reggie's receptions more valuable because he runs different routes? what does it matter if he isn't doing anything once he gets the ball?? production, production, production. . .
also, i didn't say that his inability to run between the tackles diminishes how good he is-- i said that his versatility is overrated because he doesn't run the ball well very well. . .
somethig else worth mentioning is that he is the starter for his team-- players like mojo and norwood are not only outproducing him, they're doing it with fewer opportunities. . .
:beer:
Cheers to that. Well said, dogfish.
silkamilkamonico
11-09-2007, 09:08 PM
It's harsh, but it's not surprising. The whole "Saint Reggie" image and the millions in non-football money is certain to prompt some of the other 52 guys in the locker room not to like him -- especially when his production is languishing behind other running backs drafted in 2006, and some of the ones drafted in 2007.
I do feel bad for Bush. He is vastly overhyped as an individual player, but it mainly comes from sources other than him, and he's the one that has to listen to all the negativity about him.
cpr940
11-09-2007, 09:50 PM
A large reason why Barry couldn't go up the middle wasn't him... it was his lack of anything resembling an offensive line. When Barry did hit the middle he actually performed much better than many will give him credit for. He was a small quick guy, but he had extremely strong legs.
Under Bobby Ross, Sanders had a fullback and ran up the middle or off tackle quite often, definitely more so than under Wayne Fontes.
He did it so well, he rushed for over 2,000 yards.
His lines overall weren't great, but Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover were nasty in their prime. I think they had Bill Fralic there for a year at the end of his career, and he was a very good lineman for the Falcons for a long time. If I remember correctly, Mike Compton was solid, and was good enough to play for 10 years.
I'd take that line over the Saints line as configured right now.
To answer your question the answers are no and no.
His value to the offense is not only in the stats.
And like houses, a player is worth to his team whatever his team says he is worth to them at that time. But like cars, players value CAN depreciate over time, making the contracts untenable. I don't see that with Bush yet.
cpr940
11-09-2007, 09:58 PM
MJD is a little back that is going up the gut.....odds are that he won't last very long. At best he has the career of Warrick Dunn, which is solid but........not all that great with respect to Warrick Dunn.
MJD is way stouter than Dunn, and has a fairly powerful legs. Officially he is listed at 5'7", but over 200 lbs. That's pretty thick for a short guy. Barry Sanders was maybe an inch taller but not a whole lot heavier.
Dunn is 5'10" and maybe 185 in pads.. Totally inaccurate comparison, in my opinion.
(BTW, I had no idea Dunn was closing in on 10,000 career rushing yards).
bengaaaaals1688
11-09-2007, 10:13 PM
Under Bobby Ross, Sanders had a fullback and ran up the middle or off tackle quite often, definitely more so than under Wayne Fontes.
He did it so well, he rushed for over 2,000 yards.
His lines overall weren't great, but Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover were nasty in their prime. I think they had Bill Fralic there for a year at the end of his career, and he was a very good lineman for the Falcons for a long time. If I remember correctly, Mike Compton was solid, and was good enough to play for 10 years.
I'd take that line over the Saints line as configured right now.
I was arguing that Barry could in fact run up the middle, and quite well. Thank you for proving that for me, because I tend to be lazy and not like to go out of my way to find things like that lol.:salute:
As for him having had 2 good OL... I fully agree with it and understand it, but as a whole his lines were never very good.
cpr940
11-09-2007, 10:33 PM
As I said, 18 of 20 RB's who have 10,000 yards are in the HOF... the 2 that aren't, are Edgerrin James, and Tiki Barber... neither of which is eligible for the HOF because James is playing and Barber just retired. He can be Fragile Fred, but he will still end his career with over 10,000 yards rushing, and that is nothing to laugh at.
Well, you're totally forgetting about OJ Anderson, to start. He has 10,273 career rushing yards and will likely NOT get into the Hall of Fame, even though he was crucial to the 89 and 90 Giants playoff teams, including some very tough running in the Super Bowl victory over the Bills.
And remarkably, he got most of these yards in just 8 out of his 15 seasons. He got benched after a season in which he had 1800 yards of total offense for the 1984 Cardinals, and stayed there for 3 years, unable to get out of the doghouse while a lesser back, Stump Mitchell got all his carries.
Then Anderson had to sit behind Joe Morris in NY.
The then 32 year old Anderson, having not been a starter in 5 full seasons, responded in 1989 with 325 carries and 14 touchdowns. He started to share time with Rodney Hampton the next season, and retired in 1993.
So, while we can only imagine the potential yardage he COULD have had, the fact remains that there is precedent for a career 10,000 yards RB to be locked out of the HOF.
Also, this stat you quoted can't obviously include Eddie George, Ricky Watters, Corey Dillon, and Curtis Martin. George, Dillon and Martin aren't yet eligible, and Watters was perceived as talented but selfish, ("For who? For what?") and has a long way to go if he wants to get in. Although he is the only NFL player to ever rush for multiple 1,000 yards seasons for three different teams. He's also one of two eligible RBs with 15,000 yards of total offense who is not in the HOF. Herschel Walker is the other, and he has almost half of his total yards returning kicks.
bengaaaaals1688
11-10-2007, 02:12 AM
Well, you're totally forgetting about OJ Anderson, to start. He has 10,273 career rushing yards and will likely NOT get into the Hall of Fame, even though he was crucial to the 89 and 90 Giants playoff teams, including some very tough running in the Super Bowl victory over the Bills.
And remarkably, he got most of these yards in just 8 out of his 15 seasons. He got benched after a season in which he had 1800 yards of total offense for the 1984 Cardinals, and stayed there for 3 years, unable to get out of the doghouse while a lesser back, Stump Mitchell got all his carries.
Then Anderson had to sit behind Joe Morris in NY.
The then 32 year old Anderson, having not been a starter in 5 full seasons, responded in 1989 with 325 carries and 14 touchdowns. He started to share time with Rodney Hampton the next season, and retired in 1993.
So, while we can only imagine the potential yardage he COULD have had, the fact remains that there is precedent for a career 10,000 yards RB to be locked out of the HOF.
Also, this stat you quoted can't obviously include Eddie George, Ricky Watters, Corey Dillon, and Curtis Martin. George, Dillon and Martin aren't yet eligible, and Watters was perceived as talented but selfish, ("For who? For what?") and has a long way to go if he wants to get in. Although he is the only NFL player to ever rush for multiple 1,000 yards seasons for three different teams. He's also one of two eligible RBs with 15,000 yards of total offense who is not in the HOF. Herschel Walker is the other, and he has almost half of his total yards returning kicks.
If my stats were incorrect, I apologize. I was going off of something I read in the USA Today if I remember correctly, and those were the people put in the paper as being on that list. Now that you mention those guys, however, I am shocked that I had forgotten about them.:tsk:
Simple Jaded
11-10-2007, 10:36 PM
close, he's actually averaging 91.4 yards of total production per game-- while jerious norwood is averaging 134.5 total yards, and mojo drew is averaging 147.7 total yards. . . . but you don't see those guys on 12 commercials per day, and they don't talk about them every time their teams are mentioned on sportscenter-- or pretty much anywhere else. . . you rarely if ever see them described as the "lynchpin of their offense". . . which i don't buy anyways-- certainly he's a factor, but drew brees is an excellent QB, they have solid talent on the line, and marques colston is a quality WR. . . put another talented young RB on that O, and they'd be just fine without reggie. . .
he's a talented player, no argument, but i just fail to see where he's any more valuable to his team than any of the other good young backs in the league, other than marketing. . . so his skill set may be a bit different-- big deal! he's not the only back who can line up in the slot-- LT used to line up out wide and run downfield routes, and steven jackson caught more passes than reggie last year. . . IMO people make too much of his versatility when he can't do the number one basic thing a RB is supposed to do-- run between the tackles. . . he's made out to be this amazing, unique talent, but when you get right down to production, what's he doing that no one else can do. . . ?? :confused: who cares if he catches more passes and runs some different plays-- when you get right down to it, yards are yards and scores are scores, and he's not putting up enough of either to justify the hype. . . solid player, but he's not better than the other good backs from his draft class, and IMO is not as good as addai or mojo. . .
Put another talented back on that O and he'd be starting, like McAllister was before he was injured......
Simple Jaded
11-10-2007, 10:41 PM
I was arguing that Barry could in fact run up the middle, and quite well. Thank you for proving that for me, because I tend to be lazy and not like to go out of my way to find things like that lol. :salute:
As for him having had 2 good OL... I fully agree with it and understand it, but as a whole his lines were never very good.
Why go out of your way to prove something that 99.99% of the people on the planet already know as fact? It's a waste of time......
Simple Jaded
11-10-2007, 11:01 PM
New players come into the league all the time and have good careers like his. I mean he is barely better then Fred Taylor.....Fred Taylor. Warrick Dunn is not one of the best pure runners in the NFL, he isn't even a top 10 RB right now.
Neither is Bush! And the 2nd pick in the draft should be, imo.
LaKellen Tomlinson is the best back in the league, and there has been 4 RB's that have been drafted higher than him when he was taken 5th in 2001.
Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams and Reggie Bush. Bush is the highest draft pick and most popular of all 4, yet he's only proven to be better than Benson, imo.
Overhyped and overdrafted......
dogfish
12-06-2007, 12:03 AM
i really had to search for this thread. . . . it got buried behind a bunch of chiefs stuff that nobody cares about. . . .
:rofl:
POSTED 8:52 p.m. EST, December 5, 2007
SAINT REGGIE LOSING HIS LUSTER
Several years ago, Vikings receiver Randy Moss rankled fans, the media, and teammates by walking off of the field in the closing seconds of a season-ending loss to the Redskins. Though the Vikings backed into the playoffs that year -- and beat the Packers in the game featuring Randy's fake mooning of Lambeau fans -- the actions drew a public rebuke from center Matt Birk.
"It shouldn't happen, and if it happens again there might be some problems," Birk said at the time.
It didn't happen again, because it was the last regular-season game for Moss in purple and gold.
But now another big-name player has tried to do the same thing. With six seconds remaining in Sunday's loss to the Buccaneers, Saints running back Reggie Bush was nowhere to be found as the offense took the field.
Per media reports, coach Sean Payton eyeballed Bush making his way to the locker room, and Payton ordered Bush back to the field.
"There's definitely a learning curve, and keep in mind the tremendous expectations for Reggie Bush from the moment he stepped foot in this league," quarterback Drew Brees said. "So I think that everyone expects him to go out and just be Superman all the time, and that is not the case, especially in this league."
Bush has yet to come close to fulfilling his potential in the NFL, either as a tailback or as a return man. Devin Hester of the Bears is everything that Bush was supposed to be (and more) while running with kicked balls, and players like Bush's USC teammate LenDale White and Bush's UCLA rival Maurice Jones-Drew have become far superior backfield options.
__________________________________________________ ___________
sounds like reggie's getting a little frustrated. . . . maybe he knows he's been exposed. . . .
Let's see here, even the guys on PTI where saying that the Saints where using him wrong. Trust me, the man is a monster and would produce anywhere if the coach had a brain. Maybe he isnt a feature back, but you can still be one of the best players at that position and not be a feature back (see Brian Westbrook until recently).
dogfish
12-06-2007, 12:57 PM
Let's see here, even the guys on PTI where saying that the Saints where using him wrong. Trust me, the man is a monster and would produce anywhere if the coach had a brain. Maybe he isnt a feature back, but you can still be one of the best players at that position and not be a feature back (see Brian Westbrook until recently).
first off, listen to a MNF game-- then tell me why i should give even the tiniest bit of credence to tony kornholio's opinions. . .
secondly, you're saying that sean payton has no brain. . . . ??
seriously??
:pound: :spit:
seems like last year he turned the saints from a 3-13 perennial doormat into an offensive machine that rolled up the most offensive yards and fifth-most points in the league, and went to the conference championship despite a wretched defense. . . . also, he's widely credited for developing tony romo from an afterthought into a league MVP caliber quarterback. . . didn't payton also win coach of the year last season? yea, he's a real 'tard. . . .
:lol:
what excuses will you come up with next?
first off, listen to a MNF game-- then tell me why i should give even the tiniest bit of credence to tony kornholio's opinions. . .
secondly, you're saying that sean payton has no brain. . . . ??
seriously??
:pound: :spit:
seems like last year he turned the saints from a 3-13 perennial doormat into an offensive machine that rolled up the most offensive yards and fifth-most points in the league, and went to the conference championship despite a wretched defense. . . . also, he's widely credited for developing tony romo from an afterthought into a league MVP caliber quarterback. . . didn't payton also win coach of the year last season? yea, he's a real 'tard. . . .
:lol:
what excuses will you come up with next?
And then when you watch PTI you will realized that on MNF the role of Tony K is so be the OMG PATRIOTS AND TOM BRADY AND I LOVE EVERY CORNY STORY THAT WE SHOULD LIKE guy.
Such awesome coaches such as **** Jauron, Dom Capers and Jim Fassel and Mike Ditka won the coach of the year award.....
Did it ever occur to you that the Saints had such an awesome offense largley in due because of Reggie Bush. He was one of their best players last year.. He is not overrated, he is being used incorrectly. And as far as being overrated, so is almost every single big player in the NFL. People where saying that Tomlinson is the best back ever last year, not even close so he is overrated. People are saying that Tom Brady is a top five QB of all time, nope so he is overrated. The same thing for Manning and Larry Johnson applies. A lot of players are overrated, but Reggie Bush isn't overrated for the wrong reasons like Mike Vick was.
NameUsedBefore
12-06-2007, 07:23 PM
Three-point-seven.
Three-point-seven.
such content......
And then when you watch PTI you will realized that on MNF the role of Tony K is so be the OMG PATRIOTS AND TOM BRADY AND I LOVE EVERY CORNY STORY THAT WE SHOULD LIKE guy.
Such awesome coaches such as **** Jauron, Dom Capers and Jim Fassel and Mike Ditka won the coach of the year award.....
Did it ever occur to you that the Saints had such an awesome offense largley in due because of Reggie Bush. He was one of their best players last year.. He is not overrated, he is being used incorrectly. And as far as being overrated, so is almost every single big player in the NFL. People where saying that Tomlinson is the best back ever last year, not even close so he is overrated. People are saying that Tom Brady is a top five QB of all time, nope so he is overrated. The same thing for Manning and Larry Johnson applies. A lot of players are overrated, but Reggie Bush isn't overrated for the wrong reasons like Mike Vick was.
Yes, Reggie Bush is overrated for all the wrong reasons. Reggie Bush played on a team where practically every game they played (certainly during the regular season) USC had more talent than the other team man-for-man. And with that, he only carried the ball about 10-15 times a game. That talent coupled with him only getting 10-15 carries a game made the defenses shift their attention to other areas. This allowed Bush to maximize his APC and get a lot of yards because of big plays but thats not really what being a RB in the NFL is all about. First of all, you dont see the talent disparity among NFL teams that you do between USC and some random PAC 10 school or Fresno St. Second, no one really knew what Reggie would be like when he is asked to do what RBs do. So far its 3.7. When Reggie Bush entered the NFL, he was more of a star than a RB and he still is. Reggie Bush is closer to Eric Metcalf than Marshall Faulk. And its not even close. I like how Deuce McAllister averaged in the 4.0s last year running between the tackles and Reggie Bush couldnt even crack 4.0 running a ton of reverses and getting 1/3 of the carries that Deuce did. So far, Reggie Bush has been a joke of a RB. He has been a decent receiver but its hard to even call him a RB at this point.
such content......
Nothing more needed to be said really. 3.7 means you dont have to be verbose.
Nothing more needed to be said really. 3.7 means you dont have to be verbose.
Yeah, as opposed to looking at the entire situation.........
Yeah, as opposed to looking at the entire situation.........
3.7 encompasses the entire situation, does it not?
3.7 encompasses the entire situation, does it not?
No, it does not. It doesnt tell why his ypc is like that. Maybe factoring in poor offensive line play (Why does everyone rush to defend Drew Brees with that but not Bush) coupled with Bush being the feature back? Look, you can be a great player and not be the feature back. Look at Reggie BUsh as a FOOTBALL player. Not just a RB. He can line up in the backfield, play WR, and stretch out a defense. Sure, you have to have another decent RB but I hate to break this to you boys and girls, a lot of teams have multiple running backs in a two back system. People just hate on Reggie Bush because of some of the hype he got. If he where playing in Denver or in Indy or even Cincy he would have the uber sexy numbers. But hey, lets just ignore reality and hate on the guy.....
No, it does not. It doesnt tell why his ypc is like that. Maybe factoring in poor offensive line play (Why does everyone rush to defend Drew Brees with that but not Bush) coupled with Bush being the feature back? Look, you can be a great player and not be the feature back. Look at Reggie BUsh as a FOOTBALL player. Not just a RB. He can line up in the backfield, play WR, and stretch out a defense. Sure, you have to have another decent RB but I hate to break this to you boys and girls, a lot of teams have multiple running backs in a two back system. People just hate on Reggie Bush because of some of the hype he got. If he where playing in Denver or in Indy or even Cincy he would have the uber sexy numbers. But hey, lets just ignore reality and hate on the guy.....
Sure it does. Its because he's not as good as a lot of people would like to believe. Its a telling stat really especially when, like I said, McAllister averaged over 4.0 last year carrrying it a lot more and running between the tackles.
The reason some people dont like simply saying 3.7 is because what that does not do is acknowledge excuses which is something some people thrive at.
Simple Jaded
12-06-2007, 09:58 PM
Has Bush shown you guys anything more than Selvin Young has flashed in less opportunities? That's not me being a homer cause I don't think Young is anything special....
Granted, I don't watch every second of every game that Bush plays, but with his hype, if he did something I missed, it'd of been all over Sportscenter.
The Next Gayle Sayers? It's looking more and more like the Next Eric Metcalf is too much to expect......
dogfish
12-09-2007, 11:45 PM
POSTED 2:23 p.m. EST, December 9 ,2007
SAINTS, BUSH AT ODDS?
Chris Mortensen of ESPN reports that there's a disagreement between the New Orleans Saints and running back Reggie Bush regarding whether Bush should try to play again in 2007.
Bush's camp, per Mort, wants the player to be shut down, due to a partially torn PCL. But the team thinks that he can play with the injury.
As we recently reported (and as Mort confirms) Bush has been playing with the injury for several weeks.
The 5-7 Saints would like to run the table and try to qualify for the playoffs as a wild card. A collapse by the Bucs could also open the door to the NFC South crown.
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wow, way to play through pain and help your team out there, princess. . . . :rolleyes:
Stargazer
12-10-2007, 12:07 AM
POSTED 2:23 p.m. EST, December 9 ,2007
SAINTS, BUSH AT ODDS?
Chris Mortensen of ESPN reports that there's a disagreement between the New Orleans Saints and running back Reggie Bush regarding whether Bush should try to play again in 2007.
Bush's camp, per Mort, wants the player to be shut down, due to a partially torn PCL. But the team thinks that he can play with the injury.
As we recently reported (and as Mort confirms) Bush has been playing with the injury for several weeks.
The 5-7 Saints would like to run the table and try to qualify for the playoffs as a wild card. A collapse by the Bucs could also open the door to the NFC South crown.
__________________________________________________ _____
wow, way to play through pain and help your team out there, princess. . . . :rolleyes:
He should play. The "bush camp" would definately want him shut down for the year. The guy is an explosive player. And a partially torn posterior cruciate ligament is not good for the knee. He could possibly get injured pretty bad and miss a lot of time. This guy is built on speed & explosiveness. An injury that could possibly get worse is not a good thing for his career. Like I said, he should play. But, his potential long term career in the NFL and his own future would say shut him down for the season.
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