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View Full Version : John Elway challenged by Broncos fans during call with ticket holders



Denver Native (Carol)
09-04-2012, 09:01 PM
The article says Thursday, but I think it should be Tuesday (today)


Tough questions don't come from the media. They come from the media that tries to represent the public.

The Broncos cut out the middle man Thursday when more than 8,000 season-ticket holders joined a fan forum conference call with the team's top two football executives, John Elway and Matt Russell.

Elway stared down 300-pound defensive tackles in the pocket for 16 years as a Broncos quarterback. But that was nothing compared to the grill the executive vice president of football operations was placed on by Dan, who wanted to know why Jeremiah Johnson was cut instead of "Know-show," the sarcastic name occasionally used by critics of running back Knowshon Moreno.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21466761/john-elway-challenged-by-broncos-fans

Superchop 7
09-04-2012, 09:08 PM
Agree with him on Moreno.....disagree on moore.....

Dzone
09-04-2012, 09:50 PM
Good that the people paying for the tickets are holding his feet to the fire

BroncoWave
09-04-2012, 10:02 PM
The fan that asked why he kept "no-show" over JJ is a moron. Has he ever watched either of them play?

rcsodak
09-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Knowshon was kicking it in the kc game when he got hurt. That gives me hope he can turn his career around.
The last thing this team needs is to put a player (JJ) in a pass play and his poor protection gets the $100M Man sidelined indefinitely.
And i agree about Q being 'the thumper'.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Good that the people paying for the tickets are holding his feet to the fire

Also good that he is talking to the people who are paying for the tickets.

shank
09-05-2012, 07:27 AM
buff has season tickets?

Buff
09-05-2012, 09:45 AM
The fan that asked why he kept "no-show" over JJ is a moron. Has he ever watched either of them play?

Yeah, he probably values speed and production at the RB position. Weird.

BroncoWave
09-05-2012, 10:03 AM
Yeah, he probably values speed and production at the RB position. Weird.

What has JJ ever produced at the RB position? We have Ronnie Hillman for speed.

Buff
09-05-2012, 10:11 AM
What has JJ ever produced at the RB position? We have Ronnie Hillman for speed.

What has Moreno ever produced other than mediocrity? The gap between JJ and KM is not nearly as big as some like to imply, and the idea of keeping JJ over Moreno is certainly not as stupid as you make it out to be. Both were fighting for a roster spot headed into the last preseason game.

slim
09-05-2012, 10:43 AM
What has Moreno ever produced other than mediocrity? The gap between JJ and KM is not nearly as big as some like to imply, and the idea of keeping JJ over Moreno is certainly not as stupid as you make it out to be. Both were fighting for a roster spot headed into the last preseason game.

Yeah, the coaches and front office do not have the ability to see which player is better.

It is a good thing you are here to set them straight.

BigDaddyBronco
09-05-2012, 11:11 AM
Yeah, the coaches and front office do not have the ability to see which player is better.

It is a good thing you are here to set them straight.

Of course this is the same group that thought Orton should start over Tebow, when all the fan base wanted to see Tebow play. Looks like the fans are right some of the time.

BroncoWave
09-05-2012, 11:38 AM
What has Moreno ever produced other than mediocrity? The gap between JJ and KM is not nearly as big as some like to imply, and the idea of keeping JJ over Moreno is certainly not as stupid as you make it out to be. Both were fighting for a roster spot headed into the last preseason game.

Look at what Moreno has produced in regular season games and what JJ has produced. Tell me how it even compares. And if JJ is so good why did no one snatch him off our practice squad?

And how exactly would you know both were fighting for a roster spot? Do you have some access to the coaches' meetings that we don't? Based on watching both guys play, I don't see how it was even a question which one would make the team.

Poet
09-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Moreno is Buff's new Jake Plummer.

BroncoWave
09-05-2012, 11:44 AM
If Moreno had been picked in the 3rd or 4th round not a single fan would question his productivity or roster spot. But since he was a first rounder, he is held to some mythical standard to keep his roster spot. Nevermind the fact that he is easily better than any RB on our roster outside Willis. Just because he hasn't lived up to his draft pick doesn't mean he's not a solid contributor to the team.

broncofaninfla
09-05-2012, 11:45 AM
I haven't been much of a Moreno fan to date but I agree with the depth chart and the players Denver kept and cut as far as the running backs are concerned.

Buff
09-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Look at what Moreno has produced in regular season games and what JJ has produced. Tell me how it even compares. And if JJ is so good why did no one snatch him off our practice squad?

And how exactly would you know both were fighting for a roster spot? Do you have some access to the coaches' meetings that we don't? Based on watching both guys play, I don't see how it was even a question which one would make the team.

Look at the sample size. Look at how much the franchise has invested in Moreno. A regular season comparison isn't really fair because JJ has barely gotten a sniff.

And guys who have their roster spot locked down don't start and play deep into the 4th preseason game listed at 3rd string on the depth chart. It's obvious he still had more to prove going into that game - and he actually had a good game for once in his life. Good for him. I hope he can string a few more together. If not, I've got more faith in Lance Ball anyway.

Chef Zambini
09-05-2012, 11:52 AM
What has Moreno ever produced other than mediocrity? The gap between JJ and KM is not nearly as big as some like to imply, and the idea of keeping JJ over Moreno is certainly not as stupid as you make it out to be. Both were fighting for a roster spot headed into the last preseason game.true but as JE candidly pointed out, the critical concern is pass protection, NOT run production !
picking up the blitz, being an effective BLOCKER, that takes precident over run production and pass catching for ANY guy listed as a bronco RB !
any decent FB is a better choice than both KM and JJ !
we may see a TE lined up in the backfield this season !

Buff
09-05-2012, 11:54 AM
If Moreno had been picked in the 3rd or 4th round not a single fan would question his productivity or roster spot. But since he was a first rounder, he is held to some mythical standard to keep his roster spot. Nevermind the fact that he is easily better than any RB on our roster outside Willis. Just because he hasn't lived up to his draft pick doesn't mean he's not a solid contributor to the team.

I vehemently disagree with this opinion. He IS worse than people give him credit for, not better. Worse. That's why I've been on a tirade for 24 hours - people keep trying to convince me that Moreno gets a bad rap because of his draft slot - well yeah, that and his subpar NFL skill set and 6.5 second 40.

BroncoWave
09-05-2012, 11:58 AM
Look at the sample size. Look at how much the franchise has invested in Moreno. A regular season comparison isn't really fair because JJ has barely gotten a sniff.

And guys who have their roster spot locked down don't start and play deep into the 4th preseason game listed at 3rd string on the depth chart. It's obvious he still had more to prove going into that game - and he actually had a good game for once in his life. Good for him. I hope he can string a few more together. If not, I've got more faith in Lance Ball anyway.

So why is JJ still sitting on our practice squad and not signed by someone else?

Denver Native (Carol)
09-05-2012, 11:58 AM
IMO, I have confidence in Elway and the coaches, because they are so much closer to the situation than a fan is, are at every practice, evaluate practice and game film, etc. that they kept the best 53.

Thnikkaman
09-05-2012, 12:01 PM
I did enjoy the quote on Elway knowing how to fall.

BroncoWave
09-05-2012, 12:02 PM
Look at the sample size. Look at how much the franchise has invested in Moreno. A regular season comparison isn't really fair because JJ has barely gotten a sniff.

And guys who have their roster spot locked down don't start and play deep into the 4th preseason game listed at 3rd string on the depth chart. It's obvious he still had more to prove going into that game - and he actually had a good game for once in his life. Good for him. I hope he can string a few more together. If not, I've got more faith in Lance Ball anyway.

Moreno was drafted by McD. Fox has nothing invested him. As proven by Tebow, this regime has no problem getting rid of his first round picks. Nice try though.

Buff
09-05-2012, 12:04 PM
So why is JJ still sitting on our practice squad and not signed by someone else?

I think Moreno is a lousy RB. Not everyone shares my opinion.

It's not that I'm high on JJ, it's that I'm extremely low on Knowshon.

Buff
09-05-2012, 12:06 PM
Moreno was drafted by McD. Fox has nothing invested him. As proven by Tebow, this regime has no problem getting rid of his first round picks. Nice try though.

A first round pick is still a first round pick regardless of the regime that brought him in. Obviously a #12 pick is going to get a longer leash than a UFA after they've invested all that guaranteed $$. To your earlier point - he likely would have been cut after last year if he were being evaluated as a UFA and not a first rounder. So it goes both ways.

MOtorboat
09-05-2012, 12:54 PM
I vehemently disagree with this opinion. He IS worse than people give him credit for, not better. Worse. That's why I've been on a tirade for 24 hours - people keep trying to convince me that Moreno gets a bad rap because of his draft slot - well yeah, that and his subpar NFL skill set and 6.5 second 40.

Woo-sah

Mike
09-05-2012, 12:59 PM
The only real problem that I have with Moreno is just when he starts showing signs of good things....he gets hurt. Hope this year is the year he gets past it, but not counting on it.

Ravage!!!
09-05-2012, 01:15 PM
So why is JJ still sitting on our practice squad and not signed by someone else?

People could have asked the same question about Rod Smith at one time. Kurt Warner moved from team to team, and was left to be taken for free for the expansion teams, and they passed. Being on the practice squad because you are sitting behind a first rounder, doesn't mean much. Lets face it, first round picks are given a LOT more opportunities to succeed, BECAUSE of that "mythical" expectations you talk about. People hold them to a higher standard, but the coaches give them a longer leash because of that very same slot they were taken in.

I'm not saying JJ is another Rod SMith or Kurt Warner, but to say that being on the practice squad and no one else taking you is "evidence" to prove contrary is pretty wrong.

Chef Zambini
09-05-2012, 01:24 PM
IMO, I have confidence in Elway and the coaches, because they are so much closer to the situation than a fan is, are at every practice, evaluate practice and game film, etc. that they kept the best 53.I disagree! I think webber might be better than BOH HANIE and brocko, but he NEVER got a legitimate chance to show the fans as much, by playing with the FIRST string offense !
bad PR for a "wlk-on" to outplay your hired vet and heir apparent !
because BO is so inept at this point, he has to be red-shirted, we are forced to also keep an incompetent like hanie to stand in for him! that gives us the best 51 man roster!
I am calling it "aresa51" I coined that phrase for our broncos , just now, so Mo will be along shortly to dispute it !
kick the ball !

Ravage!!!
09-05-2012, 01:27 PM
Weber isn't better. People used that "didn't play with the first team" excuse for other QBs last year as well.

I'm also hoping that our coaching staff is smart enough to use the entire 53 man roster rather than short-change ourselves 2 players.

Dzone
09-05-2012, 01:30 PM
Moreno is a better hurdler than JJ

Northman
09-05-2012, 01:32 PM
The only real problem that I have with Moreno is just when he starts showing signs of good things....he gets hurt. Hope this year is the year he gets past it, but not counting on it.

Indeed.

Would be nice to see him step up but not counting on it.

silkamilkamonico
09-05-2012, 02:22 PM
I vehemently disagree with this opinion. He IS worse than people give him credit for, not better. Worse. That's why I've been on a tirade for 24 hours - people keep trying to convince me that Moreno gets a bad rap because of his draft slot - well yeah, that and his subpar NFL skill set and 6.5 second 40.

You have obviously created a blind argument based purely on biased hate.

Moreno's 40 time was 4.55
Johnson's 40 time was 4.62

Johnson was coming off surgery which is why it's slower, but it Moreso shows this uninformed opinion of Moreno being "slow".

Everyone informed NFL fan knows Moreno is very good at blitz pickup, and creating some terrible argument for Jeremiah Johnson because of his "speed" (only) is utterly stupid, unless you honestly don't care about a RB doing a good job protecting Peyton Manning. Then again, there probably are a select unintelligent few who honestly think having Jeremiah "speed" Johnson is more important than a healthy Peyton Manning.

Moreno is also significantly better than "speed" Johnson in the passing game, but again, there are probably a select few that wants Manning to hand the ball off to speed all game rather than tossing the ball around the field to weapons in the receiving game like Moreno.

BroncoJoe
09-05-2012, 02:30 PM
He's not the elite talent the Broncos believed he was when they drafted him, but that's not exactly Moreno's fault. Players like Moreno are often unfairly held to a higher standard when they are drafted higher than they should have been drafted. Blame the general manager and not the player.

In a way, Moreno is being punished simply because he was not drafted by John Elway. Moreno's effort is not in question, and he's returned to the field less than nine months after he had surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee. That's not easy to do, and plenty of other players have taken longer to recover from the same injury.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1299348-why-knowshon-moreno-deserves-a-roster-spot-in-denver

Ravage!!!
09-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Moreno is slow. Track 40 times don't necessarily translate to the field, and I know I've been one to say that I'm not a big Moreno fan...but the big reason I don't believe in Moreno anymore is because that boy is just flat-out-Slowwwww.

BroncoJoe
09-05-2012, 02:49 PM
I've never really seen him in the open field, so I can't say whether or not he's "slow". He's more impatient than anything, IMO.

I have serious doubts he's slow though.

Thnikkaman
09-05-2012, 02:53 PM
I trust the eyes of our Front office now more than I have in the past 4 years more than I trust anyone who regularly posts on this message board.

Ravage!!!
09-05-2012, 03:05 PM
I've never really seen him in the open field, so I can't say whether or not he's "slow". He's more impatient than anything, IMO.

I have serious doubts he's slow though.

Well, not slow compared to me, personally.

Buff
09-05-2012, 04:05 PM
You have obviously created a blind argument based purely on biased hate.

Moreno's 40 time was 4.55
Johnson's 40 time was 4.62

Johnson was coming off surgery which is why it's slower, but it Moreso shows this uninformed opinion of Moreno being "slow".

Everyone informed NFL fan knows Moreno is very good at blitz pickup, and creating some terrible argument for Jeremiah Johnson because of his "speed" (only) is utterly stupid, unless you honestly don't care about a RB doing a good job protecting Peyton Manning. Then again, there probably are a select unintelligent few who honestly think having Jeremiah "speed" Johnson is more important than a healthy Peyton Manning.

Moreno is also significantly better than "speed" Johnson in the passing game, but again, there are probably a select few that wants Manning to hand the ball off to speed all game rather than tossing the ball around the field to weapons in the receiving game like Moreno.

All of my arguments in life are created solely out of biased hate.

Thnikkaman
09-05-2012, 04:11 PM
All of my arguments in life are created solely out of biased hate.

Buff is the Darth Vader of Broncos Analysis.

Cugel
09-05-2012, 07:10 PM
Weber isn't better. People used that "didn't play with the first team" excuse for other QBs last year as well.

I'm also hoping that our coaching staff is smart enough to use the entire 53 man roster rather than short-change ourselves 2 players.

You will never convince the idiots Rav. :rolleyes:

Fans just get attached to some mediocre player like Adam Weber and won't let it go. "He played better than Hanie!"

Well, so what? Hanie is a veteran with real game experience in both the regular season and the playoffs. He played in an emergency role in the NFC Championship game against the Packers and played reasonably well.

He pretty much sucked last season for the Bears which is why he didn't keep his job. But the Broncos want TWO things:

#1 -- A VETERAN backup QB who doesn't cost a lot. A guy who can come in and play a game or at most 2 if Manning is hurt.

#2 -- A rookie developmental QB to groom for 3 or 4 years behind Peyton Manning.

Adam Weber is NONE of those things. He has NEVER started a regular season game. He was an UNDRAFTED FA who spent last year on the practice squad and is now on the practice squad on another team. If the Broncos decided they wanted him they could STILL get him.

He looked good in some meaningless preseason games against guys who are now working at Home Depot. So what?

Is he better than Brock Osweiler? He's 27 and Osweiler is 21. Manning is going to play at least another 2 years and probably more, baring injury. Osweiler would only be 23 or 24 years old when he gets his chance.

Meanwhile he's totally raw. What of it? That's WHY they drafted him.

It was MANNING'S SUGGESTION that they use a high draft pick on a QB to groom behind him and he would mentor that QB. That's what he's doing with Osweiler. They needed a guy like Osweiler who would be happy to be the backup for the next three seasons.

Weber would be 30-32 years old by the time Manning retires! He needs to start NOW if he's ever going to!

So, he went to a team with crappy QBs where he will probably get a chance this season.

Good luck to him! But nobody who isn't completely insane thinks that guy is going to be another Kurt Warner or Brett Favre (guys who bounced around the league before getting their chance to start and became HOF players).

pnbronco
09-05-2012, 09:47 PM
JJ is a much, much nicer person that Moreno, so that's my bias. I hope the Moreno stays healthy and can show some of the skills I've seen flashes of. According to:


Lindsay Jones ‏@PostBroncos
Johnson said he had another practice squad offer, but chose to stay in Denver rather than re-learn a new system.

I'm glad he's around and I hope he learns enough on PS to translate to making the 53 in the future.

Softskull
09-05-2012, 11:42 PM
JJ is a much, much nicer person that Moreno, so that's my bias. I hope the Moreno stays healthy and can show some of the skills I've seen flashes of. According to:


Lindsay Jones ‏@PostBroncos
Johnson said he had another practice squad offer, but chose to stay in Denver rather than re-learn a new system.

I'm glad he's around and I hope he learns enough on PS to translate to making the 53 in the future.

Pola, you seem to have a great character meter. Living here in the land of the unholy, I rarely get to see, not to mention meet the Broncos. What kind of guy is (in your opinion) Moreno. Anyone you think is an unsung hero of the team? How about people that were sent packing over the last few years? Anyone that seemed like a good character guy that was given a bad rap? Thanks

ShaneFalco
09-05-2012, 11:57 PM
Funny . Not one word about the dui.

pnbronco
09-05-2012, 11:59 PM
Pola, you seem to have a great character meter. Living here in the land of the unholy, I rarely get to see, not to mention meet the Broncos. What kind of guy is (in your opinion) Moreno. Anyone you think is an unsung hero of the team? How about people that were sent packing over the last few years? Anyone that seemed like a good character guy that was given a bad rap? Thanks

JJ is just one of the kids that nice all the time. It doesn't matter if it one on one or a crowd around. I go to camp so much that most years I get to visit with the kids and just joke around with them, except for this year. Dang there were so many people. Anyway I've noticed that Moreno only "acts" nice when there is a large crowd around or cameras. I'm not saying he's a bad person, just that JJ is a kid that I can saw I'm really proud of all your hard work and his face lights up like a Christmas tree.

Steven Johnson seems to be in the super sweet kid and a really hard worker. I look forward to watching him.