Does the fact that Osweiler failed to win the backup job make him a failed pick?

[Tned]

I had a lengthy Twitter exchange tonight with Eric Goodman, who is the afternoon drive time host on Mile High Sports radio. He's contention was that the fact that Osweiler couldn't win the backup job, and is starting the season as the #3 QB indicates it was a bad pick, since he was a 2nd round pick. He also went on to ask if there has ever been a QB who was the #3 QB his rookie year whoever amounted to anything. While I could not come up with an example, or multiple, off the top of my head during the exchange, I find it hard to believe there haven't been QBs that turned out to be quality starters, who were #3 their rookie year.

So, I thought it would be a good discussion. Does Osweiler's performance this preseason and his failure to beat out Hanne for the backup spot mean it was a bad pick? Is it a given that a QB picked in the 2nd round should at least be able to be the team's backup year one? Can we judge the pick after one preseason?

Also, what about examples of QBs that were third string their rookie years that then "amounted to something." Is he right, that it's an indication that Brock's fate is already sealed?

What say you?

[sneakers]

Well, when you consider 5 other rookie QBs are starting....(although on bad team), kinda i guess.....this is too much for me!

[gregbroncs]

I don't believe it guarantees he will fail. But it is a bad sign that he could not beat out a guy like Hanie.

[Nomad]

I don't believe it guarantees he will fail. But it is a bad sign that he could not beat out a guy like Hanie.

I agree. He has his time to develop and 'wait & see', but considering he was a second rd pick and #2 pick overall for the BRONCOS in the draft and playing against #2s and #3s of other teams, I expected him to be the #2 QB.

[UnderArmour]

The fact that CALEB HANIE is our backup QB means that the front office severely botched the backup QB situation and the Tebow trade was a failure.

[MOtorboat]

No.

[Nomad]

The fact that CALEB HANIE is our backup QB means that the front office severely botched the backup QB situation and the Tebow trade was a failure.

uh-oh......you went there.:lol:

[MileHighCrew]

to early to tell with him and he was a developmental guy, but he might have been selected too early in the draft considering where he is at and how a later pick like Russell in Seattle stood out.

we will have to wait a few year to see if he is the wizard of oz, or just a guy behind the curtain

[Softskull]

I think the team fully expected Os to be a several year project. Everyone knew he was raw with lots of upside. The only way Hanie gets any playing time is if Peyton needs a piss break. We saw what Hanie was capable of when Cutler went down last year. I suspect that if Peyton did go down, the team might adjust things so Os would get as much playing time as possible.

Although not a perfect fit to your question, Kurt Warner didn't even make his first NFL team. He also was a guy with potential but very raw. When he finally did make a roster, he was third string for the Rams. The NFL had Europe to develope guys back then. Delomme was in that same boat. It may be a bit early to compare Os to Warner, but I like the idea.

[Northman]

Hanie is #2 because he has NFL experience. Elway said that Oz was just fine and had a great camp.

[Tned]

I think the team fully expected Os to be a several year project. Everyone knew he was raw with lots of upside. The only way Hanie gets any playing time is if Peyton needs a piss break. We saw what Hanie was capable of when Cutler went down last year. I suspect that if Peyton did go down, the team might adjust things so Os would get as much playing time as possible.

Although not a perfect fit to your question, Kurt Warner didn't even make his first NFL team. He also was a guy with potential but very raw. When he finally did make a roster, he was third string for the Rams. The NFL had Europe to develope guys back then. Delomme was in that same boat. It may be a bit early to compare Os to Warner, but I like the idea.

My understanding of Osweiler, is like yours, which is that they drafted him knowing that he had upside, but wasn't NFL ready now. That they believed he fit well with the 2-3 year time horizon needed having just signed Manning.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Not at all. If you consider the fact that Hanie was mostly ineffective when he wasn't playing alongside the starters and Oz never got a chance to play with the starters, I think the evaluation of the two was a little skewed in Hanie's favor. Once again, Hanie probably won the job "in practice" due to his experience more than he did because of his skill on the field. If, God Forbid, Manning does go down at some point, I believe Hanie will play himself out of the job in the first game and Oz will get the nod until Peyton returns. Just a hunch.

[MOtorboat]

I went back and read your twitter conversation with Goodman and Spano. I would say I agree with you and Spano, and I think Goodman is either A.) saying this to make a splash, or B.) Just doesn't understand why the pick was made.

There are two facets to the conversation, the pick, and the player who was taken with the pick.

I can understand the argument that the Broncos, after signing Peyton Manning, should not have drafted a quarterback as high as they did in the same year. I can understand why people would have wanted a running back, or an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver to complement Manning. Osweiler doesn't complement Manning; he is going to follow him on the field as the next starter. I can understand why drafting a quarterback with the second pick the team had is questionable this year.

I can't understand labeling Osweiler, the player taken with the picks, as an F because he's second string or third string. If a backup doesn't get on the field this year, other than in mop up situations, then there's no validity to his argument at all, because who the backup was and who the No. 3 was on paper is ultimately irrelevant. Thus, giving Osweiler an F, is shortsighted, at best.

[Softskull]

My understanding of Osweiler, is like yours, which is that they drafted him knowing that he had upside, but wasn't NFL ready now. That they believed he fit well with the 2-3 year time horizon needed having just signed Manning.

You have to put this into context. We have a GM HOF QB coming off the Tebow debacle. It's a passing QB world and the modern QB needs to have the arm/accuracy to make all the throws. Manning gave Elway two things: 1) An aging star QB to set the team straight and eliminate the Tebow issue 2) Time to set up his heir. Nothing in Os being third string changes that.

[Tned]

I went back and read your twitter conversation with Goodman and Spano. I would say I agree with you and Spano, and I think Goodman is either A.) saying this to make a splash, or B.) Just doesn't understand why the pick was made.

There are two facets to the conversation, the pick, and the player who was taken with the pick.

I can understand the argument that the Broncos, after signing Peyton Manning, should not have drafted a quarterback as high as they did in the same year. I can understand why people would have wanted a running back, or an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver to complement Manning. Osweiler doesn't complement Manning; he is going to follow him on the field as the next starter. I can understand why drafting a quarterback with the second pick the team had is questionable this year.

I can't understand labeling Osweiler, the player taken with the picks, as an F because he's second string or third string. If a backup doesn't get on the field this year, other than in mop up situations, then there's no validity to his argument at all, because who the backup was and who the No. 3 was on paper is ultimately irrelevant. Thus, giving Osweiler an F, is shortsighted, at best.

Yea, this sums up my feeling pretty well.

I know not long after the draft, maybe a few weeks, I was talking to a friend at work about the draft, and the Osweiler pick in general, and pointing out how he seemed to be looked at as a 2-3 year prospect, to take over when Manning was ready to retire. He pointed out, and I think very correctly, if that was the way he was looked at, then why didn't the team address more specific needs in this draft (as they did have a lot of holes/needs) and they could very easily gotten a similar QB with a similar pick next year.

Now, if they see something in Osweiler where they think he will be REALLY special, far better than your normal 2nd/3rd round QB, but that he just needs time to grow into it, then I guess the pick makes sense. I've been on the fence about this pick ever since they made it.

[Nomad]

So was Osweiler picked up too early? No, you can't say he is a failure, but according to many here, being picked in the first 2 rds means you are ready to play.

[Northman]

Oz was picked up where he was projected. The only difference is he was picked up by a team who didnt need him to start right away.

[topscribe]

We were told that Osweiler is raw. We know (or should) that he has all of one (1)
year as a starter under his belt. We should have expected that he would
struggle at first on this level. It's the same thing as last year. People were
ready to dump Irving and Rahim Moore because they played like rookies who
did not have the benefit of a preseason.

Fans will be fans, I guess. So-called "analysts," however, have no excuse . . .
.

[Ziggy]

Russel Wilson is a poor example to compare him to. Running QB's always have a chance to make more of an impact earlier on in the NFL. The pocket passers are better long term prospects. Vince Young is a good example of this. Give me the 6'7 rocket armed pocket passer over the 5'11 running QB any day of the week. Osweiller is in the perfect position to bring along slowly. Elway is going to make sure that he doesn't get thrown into the fire before he has to.

By the way, Brett Favre was 3rd string his rookie year behind Billy Joe Tolliver.

[Nomad]

We were told that Osweiler is raw. We know (or should) that he has all of one (1)
year as a starter under his belt. We should have expected that he would
struggle at first on this level. It's the same thing as last year. People were
ready to dump Irving and Rahim Moore because they played like rookies who
did not have the benefit of a preseason.

Fans will be fans, I guess. So-called "analysts," however, have no excuse . . .
.


So when we read people here say Moore and Irving are failures, we can say ****, they need time to develop.

[topscribe]

So when we read people here say Moore and Irving are failures, we can say ****, they need time to develop.
I think it has become obvious this year that they are developing just fine . . .
.

[Northman]

Its really not rocket science here.

Had the Broncos not picked up Manning, Tebow would of been the projected starter going into this season. However, Denver would of still drafted a QB and maybe even gone in the first round to get one had that been the case. And had that senario happened it wouldnt even be a shoe in that Tebow would of remained the starter considering how much he struggles in the passing game. When you look at the rookie QB's who are starting they are all from teams who dont have a bonafide QB to begin with. Flynn? He was just as much a question mark as Wilson despite getting paid a lot more money. Cousins has played well with the 2nd and 3rd stringers in Washington but so has RGIII. Foles has played ok and thats probably the only senario where i think we might see a change at some point whether it be due to Vick's poor play or injury.

There is no reason for Brock to start above Manning and whether he is 2nd or 3rd on the depth is even more meaningless. The FO sees it as they want the most experienced guy to back up Manning. But as Horsepower stated, i seriously doubt if Manning goes down that Hanie will keep the job long before being replaced.

[Nomad]

So what's a good timeline to judge draft picks.....2,3,4 yrs?

[Softskull]

Russel Wilson is a poor example to compare him to. Running QB's always have a chance to make more of an impact earlier on in the NFL. The pocket passers are better long term prospects. Vince Young is a good example of this. Give me the 6'7 rocket armed pocket passer over the 5'11 running QB any day of the week. Osweiller is in the perfect position to bring along slowly. Elway is going to make sure that he doesn't get thrown into the fire before he has to.

By the way, Brett Favre was 3rd string his rookie year behind Billy Joe Tolliver.

I forgot about Farve. So lets start a list of all time great 3rd stringers.

Tom Brady (was actually 4th string at the beginning of his rookie year)
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner
Jake Delhomme

Others?

[Northman]

Frerotte was never great but he did play better than he was projected. I believe he ended up unseating the boy from Notre Dame in Washington originally.

[BigDaddyBronco]

So what's a good timeline to judge draft picks.....2,3,4 yrs?

3 years. They better be on their way in 3 years or they will probably never work out. There are several QB's that show promise right off the bat, but there is a group that needs a season or two and are ready to go by their 3rd season. Way to early to tell with Oz.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Frerotte was never great but he did play better than he was projected. I believe he ended up unseating the boy from Notre Dame in Washington originally.

I thought that was Heath Shuler from Tenn?

[camdisco24]

Agreed with most of what has already been said. I am not surprised Hanne was kept around, simply because John Fox loves having experience at teh QB position. IMO, if Os starts showing progress enough to move to #2, Hanne will be gone mid-season. Os was an investment choice, not an instant improvement pick.

[Northman]

Trent Green, 8th round pick.

[Northman]

I thought that was Heath Shuler from Tenn?

Shuler is his name. I always thought he was a Notre Dame guy?

[chazoe60]

So what's a good timeline to judge draft picks.....2,3,4 yrs?

With QBs it can be even longer than that sparky.

Look at Aaron Rodgers, Hell most of us had forgotten about him by the time he started now he's arguably the best QB in the league.

[Northman]

Your right BDB, he was Tenn. Dont know why i thought he was ND. Must be thinking of that boy who played in New Orleans or Seattle. lol

[Nomad]

3 years. They better be on their way in 3 years or they will probably never work out. There are several QB's that show promise right off the bat, but there is a group that needs a season or two and are ready to go by their 3rd season. Way to early to tell with Oz.

I agree. But I see too often around here, i.e. Moore and other players has a bad rookie or 2nd year, and they are labeled busts.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think there are some guys who need some development time like McNair and maybe ***cough cough*** Tebow, guys who don't get a chance for awhile like Gannon or Rodgers, and guys who get to play early and develop like Rothlesberger, Ryan, etc. There is no way that Oz will get a chance for a 2-3 years barring injury so let's hope he is a Rodgers.

[Ravage!!!]

Considering it doesn't make a damn bit of difference who the #2 and/or #3 is on paper, doesn't mean anything.

I think Elway is having a lot of foresight in drafting a QB the same year as signing Manning. Despite the Broncos wanting to become relevant again now, and win now, Elway's job is to also look out for the team's future and NOT just for this/next season. Osweiller was a project to learn from Manning. He wasn't drafted to start, and comparing him to the 5 rookies that are starting, is pretty short-sighted. There were rookies that weren't starting last year, that are starting this year. Os actually has a big advantage to learn from one of the greatest to play.

To say the pick is a "bust" because he's listed as 3rd, on a piece of paper, is pretty laughable.

[Nomad]

I think there are some guys who need some development time like McNair and maybe ***cough cough*** Tebow, guys who don't get a chance for awhile like Gannon or Rodgers, and guys who get to play early and develop like Rothlesberger, Ryan, etc. There is no way that Oz will get a chance for a 2-3 years barring injury so let's hope he is a Rodgers.



Wouldn't you say all NFL rookies are developmental players their first few years. And in a rare occasion, you'll have a player who comes into the league playing like a seasoned veteran.

[Northman]

Wouldn't you say all NFL rookies are developmental players their first few years. And in a rare occasion, you'll have a player who comes into the league playing like a seasoned veteran.

Indeed.

But since you can never really predict when that will happen you (as a FO or organization) are left with only guessing.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Wouldn't you say all NFL rookies are developmental players their first few years. And in a rare occasion, you'll have a player who comes into the league playing like a seasoned veteran.

Yea, it's probably only like 25% - 40% of them start or make a big impact as a rookie.

[pnbronco]

Tned to your original question, no Oz is not a bust. He just needs time, plus the kid is all arms and legs and as a friend pointed out to me could still be growing because I think it's easy to forget how young he is.

From the beginning of camp to the end I could see improvement. He is eager to learn and understands he has a lot of work ahead of him. They knew he was a project when they brought him. I really hope he gets all the time he needs to develop because that means the future HOF QB is taking all the snaps in the games.

[Npba900]

Hanie is #2 because he has NFL experience. Elway said that Oz was just fine and had a great camp.

Agreed. Hanie is beginning his 5 year as an NFL backup QB he should be able to beat out Brock. However, two years from now, Brock should be the Broncos backup QB.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. Hanie is beginning his 5 year as an NFL backup QB he should be able to beat out Brock. However, two years from now, Brock should be the Broncos backup QB.

Im betting by the end of this season, and absolutely by next season, Brock is "officially" the back-up to Manning.

[Npba900]

Im betting by the end of this season, and absolutely by next season, Brock is "officially" the back-up to Manning.

Lets hope so. I want Brock to be the eventual starter here in Denver.

[ikillz0mbies]

Rav is on point with all this Hanie-Osweiler talk. Broncos drafted Osweiler based on his potential 4-5 years down the line. They don't expect him to immediately be Manning's backup. While Manning hopefully can play for the next 4-5 years, they have Osweiler in the wings, learning/studying behind one of the best. That's the best way to develop a project QB who is high risk/high reward.

[Nomad]

Lets hope so. I want Brock to be the eventual starter here in Denver.

In the end, this is what we all want. BRONCOS are tired of QB shopping. I expect him to be the backup next year, no one would have expected him to beat out Peyton Manning. It wasn't too much to ask to see him beat out Hanie, but it's not the end of the world if he didn't. Manning doesn't have 4-5 yrs so Osweiler better be a sponge ready to play at his 4th yr (taking 3yrs to develop under Peyton) and needs to be held to the same standards as other high rd picks. I give Manning 3 yrs max here.

[Ravage!!!]

That's the best way to develop a project QB who is high risk/high reward.

I think this is a great line. This is what is forgotten most of the time when talking about Os. He wasn't drafted to be like Andrew Luck or RGIII. Although he was expected to go in the second round, that grading is based on his potential/athletic ability/size. There is no doubt that Osweiller, coming out of college, is/was NOT ready to be the starter for an NFL franchise. So guess where we are at his rookie season? Not ready for him to start as a rookie. Ta DA!!

We are/were in a unique situation when drafting Os. Needing a QB for the future, while just getting the greatest football mind to ever play QB in NFL history to start for us. Drafting Os wasn't for the now, it was for the later. It was the taking of potential while having the opportunity to give him training under one of the greatest football minds. We wouldn't have taken Os to be our starter had we not acquired Manning. So the fact that he's not ready to start, now, is precisely on schedule.

[Ravage!!!]

Generally speaking, I'm in favor of getting a QB onto the field as quickly as possible. However, that would be if we didn't have a QB like Manning to learn from. This is a PERFECT situation for a young QB to be under, and I'm THRILLED that Elway had the foresight to make a move to solidify the present as well as prepare for the future.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

IMO, Elway hand picked Brock - Elway did not draft him to immediately compete for the starting position, He drafted him to be behind Manning and learn, so when Manning retired, Brock could take over. Also, right now, Hanie is the backup - because he has pro experience. I understand the situation, as it is right now.

[ikillz0mbies]

I think this is a great line. This is what is forgotten most of the time when talking about Os. He wasn't drafted to be like Andrew Luck or RGIII. Although he was expected to go in the second round, that grading is based on his potential/athletic ability/size. There is no doubt that Osweiller, coming out of college, is/was NOT ready to be the starter for an NFL franchise. So guess where we are at his rookie season? Not ready for him to start as a rookie. Ta DA!!

We are/were in a unique situation when drafting Os. Needing a QB for the future, while just getting the greatest football mind to ever play QB in NFL history to start for us. Drafting Os wasn't for the now, it was for the later. It was the taking of potential while having the opportunity to give him training under one of the greatest football minds. We wouldn't have taken Os to be our starter had we not acquired Manning. So the fact that he's not ready to start, now, is precisely on schedule.

Bingo. The Broncos saw the potential that he brought and saw it was worth a 2nd round pick. Yeah, it's a gamble, but that's what the draft is right? You don't spend a draft picking knowing for certain what you're getting. Each player drafted always brings something different, whether they can contribute now or later. But what is certain is that it there is a developmental stage to bring up rookies. That is what's happening with Osweiler.

[Chef Zambini]

not a failed pick and not a failure, but a poor excuse for a back-up QB and not worthy of our #2 pick overall, especially with so many other needs and so many other options for QB. this was a foolish fixation by elway, its embarassing that now he feels compelled to keep hanie in front of os to hide his mistake !

[Denver Native (Carol)]

not a failed pick and not a failure, but a poor excuse for a back-up qb and not worthy of our #2 pick overall, especially with so many other needs and so many other options for qb. This was a foolish fixation by elway, its embarassing that now he feels compelled to keep hanie in front of os to hide his mistake !

oh my

[Chef Zambini]

Bingo. The Broncos saw the potential that he brought and saw it was worth a 2nd round pick. Yeah, it's a gamble, but that's what the draft is right? You don't spend a draft picking knowing for certain what you're getting. Each player drafted always brings something different, whether they can contribute now or later. But what is certain is that it there is a developmental stage to bring up rookies. That is what's happening with Osweiler.

and so whats happening in seatle?
and what about nick foles in philly?
OS was JEs fixation!
he roomed with JEs son at ASU !
nob ody at DV had the balls to tell JE that he was being too myopic in his evaluation / hopes/ dreams/ aspirations for a kid he knew personnaly and liked.
kellen moore undrafted, will end up throwing more NFL TDs than brock !

[Ravage!!!]

Maybe... maybe not. Its absolutely STUPID to call it a foolish "fixation" when you absolutely know NOTHING. Seriously. You don't know how to grade a QB, you don't know how to rank players, you don't know how to play QB.. how to judge a gQB, and you certainly don't know what Elway saw/sees in Osweiller. You are just making ridiculous remarks based on ZERO knowledge of the situation. ZERO.

[ikillz0mbies]

So now we're going to base a rookie QB's success if they're a 2nd string or 3rd string QB (Kellen Moore, Nick Foles)? If Manning was in Seattle, then we wouldn't even be hearing about Russell Wilson. Each team and the rookie QB's they drafted are all different with the results being situational. There is no cookie cutter format on how rookie QB's pan out.

[Ravage!!!]

not worthy of our #2 pick overall,

I know this wording seems to help you make your case, because it "sounds" better. But honestly, to everyone else (other than you).. knows that "#2 OVERALL.. means its the #2 pick over ALLLLLL the other picks. He wasn't a #2 over-ALL pick, he was a second round pick, taken at #57 OVERALL... and getting 2nd round talent to learn QB from Manning, seems to be a very GOOD idea.

[Ravage!!!]

So now we're going to base a rookie QB's success if they're a 2nd string or 3rd string QB (Kellen Moore, Nick Foles)? If Manning was in Seattle, then we wouldn't even be hearing about Russell Wilson. Each team and the rookie QB's they drafted are all different with the results being situational. There is no cookie cutter format on how rookie QB's pan out.

Another great point. Who are these other rookies beating out in order to play? No one. Basing Os's succes at this point based on some "depth chart" (that means absolutely nothing)... is just bitching to bitch, and sometimes a beat dog begs to get negative attention because its the only attention they get. I think this is what we are seeing from Zam. If it wasn't for his ridiculous, incoherent, rants, he would just be sitting at home in his mother's basement with no human interaction whatsoever.

[chazoe60]

IMO, Elway hand picked Brock - Elway did not draft him to immediately compete for the starting position, He drafted him to be behind Manning and learn, so when Manning retired, Brock could take over. Also, right now, Hanie is the backup - because he has pro experience. I understand the situation, as it is right now.
Carol, there is no room for logic and reason when discussing the Broncos QBs. You should know this by now.

[Nomad]

This question is better asked here......

So would the mindset be the same around here if Mcdaniels had picked Osweiler? :couch: :lol:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Carol, there is no room for logic and reason when discussing the Broncos QBs. You should know this by now.

Sorry - I forgot - just like there is no room for logic and reason when discussing whether a CB should stay at that position, rather than change to safety

[Nomad]

Generally speaking, I'm in favor of getting a QB onto the field as quickly as possible. However, that would be if we didn't have a QB like Manning to learn from. This is a PERFECT situation for a young QB to be under, and I'm THRILLED that Elway had the foresight to make a move to solidify the present as well as prepare for the future.


I'll buy this because Osweiler is in the perfect situation learning from 2 HOF Qbs.

[chazoe60]

This question is better asked here......

So would the mindset be the same around here if Mcdaniels had picked Osweiler? :couch: :lol:


Whoda known Nomad was such a shit stirrer.

[TXBRONC]

I think the team fully expected Os to be a several year project. Everyone knew he was raw with lots of upside. The only way Hanie gets any playing time is if Peyton needs a piss break. We saw what Hanie was capable of when Cutler went down last year. I suspect that if Peyton did go down, the team might adjust things so Os would get as much playing time as possible.

Although not a perfect fit to your question, Kurt Warner didn't even make his first NFL team. He also was a guy with potential but very raw. When he finally did make a roster, he was third string for the Rams. The NFL had Europe to develope guys back then. Delomme was in that same boat. It may be a bit early to compare Os to Warner, but I like the idea.

Good call. Warner was actually out of the League for a couple years or so. Before going to the NFLE he was bagging groceries and playing for the Iowa Barnstormer of the Arena Football League.

[Nomad]

Whoda known Nomad was such a shit stirrer.

I'm here to improvise the 'what ifs'. :D


I'm rooting for Osweiler to succeed. GO TEAM!

[TXBRONC]

I went back and read your twitter conversation with Goodman and Spano. I would say I agree with you and Spano, and I think Goodman is either A.) saying this to make a splash, or B.) Just doesn't understand why the pick was made.

There are two facets to the conversation, the pick, and the player who was taken with the pick.

I can understand the argument that the Broncos, after signing Peyton Manning, should not have drafted a quarterback as high as they did in the same year. I can understand why people would have wanted a running back, or an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver to complement Manning. Osweiler doesn't complement Manning; he is going to follow him on the field as the next starter. I can understand why drafting a quarterback with the second pick the team had is questionable this year.

I can't understand labeling Osweiler, the player taken with the picks, as an F because he's second string or third string. If a backup doesn't get on the field this year, other than in mop up situations, then there's no validity to his argument at all, because who the backup was and who the No. 3 was on paper is ultimately irrelevant. Thus, giving Osweiler an F, is shortsighted, at best.

How could it have gotten by Goodman as to why Osweiler was taken? Elway and Fox have been saying since the pick was made that they are expected him to sit and learn. I suspect that Goodman is bringing this up for the purpose of getting people to talk.

[FanInAZ]

The QB depth chart was decided in advance of training camp. Elway, who started the opening day of his rookie season, was a disaster until Reaves finally benched him so he could watch & learn from the side line. Everything that I've heard from the Broncos said that Elway was going to make sure that this doesn't happen to any Broncos QB under his watch. This is why they started Orton over Tebow, and why they will have Hanie backing up Manning baring a repeat of what happened to the Texans last year happening to the Broncos this year.

[Simple Jaded]

Since when does a Broncos QB have to earn a job to justify his draft position? Maybe somebody should rent a billboard to demand that Elway and Fox make Osweiler the backup.......

[Superchop 7]

My problem with Osweiler is this.......how do you develop a kid that raw if there is no developmental league?

The best thing the Broncos could do is send him to IMG in the off season.......they do good work with young QBs.

I wish him well.

[Superchop 7]

A 7 on 7 league would do wonders for skill positions.

[Simple Jaded]

The fact that CALEB HANIE is our backup QB means that the front office severely botched the backup QB situation and the Tebow trade was a failure.
Caleb Hanie looks better than Tim Tebow. From where the Broncos see it they now have 3 QB's that are better than last years starter, i don't see how that is severely botching anything.......

[tomjonesrocks]

It's not ideal.

I certainly am questioning the pick. Would rather have had Cousins watching preseason...

[Simple Jaded]

It's not ideal.

I certainly am questioning the pick. Would rather have had Cousins watching preseason...
Ideal would be a depth chart of Rodgers, Brady and Stafford. I would have rather the Broncos draft an OL and waited to draft the QBotF but it is impossible to fault the Broncos reasons for drafting Osweiler. It's not like they traded a boatload of picks to move up into the 1st round to draft a 3 year project.......

[NorCalBronco7]

Fox is hell bent on NFL production, so Im not surprised Oz is at 3. But really, how secure is Hanies job? His rope has to be the length of a straw. Hanie hasnt earned the job, he fell into by default. But I genuienly believe Fox and Elway are looking for an reason to put Oz above Hanie in the depth chart, but they are smart enough not to force the change.

[Simple Jaded]

I can't be the only one who didn't think Hanie looked anywhere near as bad as some people are making him out to be.......

[Canmore]

I can't be the only one who didn't think Hanie looked anywhere near as bad as some people are making him out to be.......

Certainly not a fan, but you can count me in with Hanie as the back-up quarterback.

[topscribe]

I have nothing against Hanie. I thought he acquitted himself pretty well in the
preseason. It's just that . . . why is he here? I don't see any way he will help
the Broncos should Peyton go down. I understand that's Hanie's job. So why
is he here?
.

[Canmore]

I have nothing against Hanie. I thought he acquitted himself pretty well in the
preseason. It's just that . . . why is he here? I don't see any way he will help
the Broncos should Peyton go down. I understand that's Hanie's job. So why
is he here?
.


I'm not a fly on the wall at Dove Valley, but I think he is a stop gap for a short term emergency so Osweiler isn't. I know how badly Hanie fared last season replacing Cutler, but that is how I envision the use of Caleb Hanie. If Manning were to go down early with a season ending injury, I'm not so sure how the quarterback rotation would play out. If Hanie struggled, which is a definite possibility, Osweiler might well get some starts, but I feel all of that would have to play out for Osweiler to start.

[NorCalBronco7]

I can't be the only one who didn't think Hanie looked anywhere near as bad as some people are making him out to be.......

He looked terrible. But who gives two shits? It preseason when its all said and done.

[silkamilkamonico]

I have nothing against Hanie. I thought he acquitted himself pretty well in the
preseason. It's just that . . . why is he here? I don't see any way he will help
the Broncos should Peyton go down. I understand that's Hanie's job. So why
is he here?
.

Hes here in case manning goes down for a week or 2....thats it. If theres any point denver is out of the playoff race, Oz would slide into the backup role by default.

[topscribe]

Hes here in case manning goes down for a week or 2....thats it. If theres any point denver is out of the playoff race, Oz would slide into the backup role by default.
I know that. So why is he here?
.

[Simple Jaded]

He looked terrible. But who gives two shits? It preseason when its all said and done.
Terrible? I've seen terrible, it looks far worse than what I saw from Hanie.......

[Chef Zambini]

hey, havin a party in my mom's basement! you guys should all stop by and drink the kool-aid.

[Chef Zambini]

Terrible? I've seen terrible, it looks far worse than what I saw from Hanie.......aqnother tebow referance !

[silkamilkamonico]

Hes here in case manning goes down for a week or 2....thats it. If theres any point denver is out of the playoff race, Oz would slide into the backup role by default.
I know that. So why is he here?
.

Surprised that if denver was 9-2 and in the race for hfa, and manning goes down for a sprained ankle and is out for 2 weeks where we might happen to play 2 shitty teams, that you would say "screw winning hfa, lets get our future qb some reps"

[MOtorboat]

hey, havin a party in my mom's basement! you guys should all stop by and drink the kool-aid.

Is it full of conspiracy juice, and will you have a "jump to conclusions" mat?

Because if so, I'm down.

[Chef Zambini]

mo, every time I get angry and call you a bad name...
please just ignore me !
go broncos !
lets win some mofo games!
starting with those steelers!

[Chef Zambini]

Surprised that if denver was 9-2 and in the race for hfa, and manning goes down for a sprained ankle and is out for 2 weeks where we might happen to play 2 shitty teams, that you would say "screw winning hfa, lets get our future qb some reps"based solely and exclusivly on what I have seen from hanie on the field, in a game, he is incapable of winning ANY games !
he will NOT complete more than half his passes, he will get sacked and throw picks! those are my expectations from hanie.
weber showed more POISE and beter accuracy than hanie

[topscribe]

Surprised that if denver was 9-2 and in the race for hfa, and manning goes down for a sprained ankle and is out for 2 weeks where we might happen to play 2 shitty teams, that you would say "screw winning hfa, lets get our future qb some reps"
Silk, you've been terrific lately at putting words in my mouth. When did I say
"screw winning"? I would just like to know how Hanie would help the Broncos
win, that's all. If this is the scenario that concerns you, then they should go
after a Matt Moore or someone such as that . . . someone who could take
over with a strong arm and complete passes with accuracy. Hanie might be
capable of that, but he hasn't shown he has, to my own satisfaction,
anyway.
.

[silkamilkamonico]

Your impossibly stubborn.Hanie sucks, we get that. I would love to hear your alternative plans.

Osweiler? The guy probably knows 10% of the playbook. If you honestly believe they brought him along the same way as Hanie I would question your outlook on nfl progression.

Webber? No...I would rather have Osweiler potential and dumbed down offense.

A free agent? Yea that works wonders....pay high price for some scrub that multiple other teams cut.

Whats your alternative at this point? Knowshon Moreno and the wild horses?

Easy to tear something down when you havent once brought up a serious argument for an alternative.

[silkamilkamonico]

Surprised that if denver was 9-2 and in the race for hfa, and manning goes down for a sprained ankle and is out for 2 weeks where we might happen to play 2 shitty teams, that you would say "screw winning hfa, lets get our future qb some reps"
Silk, you've been terrific lately at putting words in my mouth. When did I say
"screw winning"? I would just like to know how Hanie would help the Broncos
win, that's all. If this is the scenario that concerns you, then they should go
after a Matt Moore or someone such as that . . . someone who could take
over with a strong arm and complete passes with accuracy. Hanie might be
capable of that, but he hasn't shown he has, to my own satisfaction,
anyway.
.


Matt moore is with the dolphins. You seriously want denver to trade future draft pick(s) for a guy that in a best case scenario will not play and be here for one year?

Thats brilliant....not.

[topscribe]

Matt moore is with the dolphins. You seriously want denver to trade future draft pick(s) for a guy that in a best case scenario will not play and be here for one year?

Thats brilliant....not.
Fine. I said "or someone such as that."

Once again, you're putting words in my mouth.

Please, if you want to make a point, represent yourself, not me . . .
.

[silkamilkamonico]

Matt moore is with the dolphins. You seriously want denver to trade future draft pick(s) for a guy that in a best case scenario will not play and be here for one year?

Thats brilliant....not.
Fine. I said "or someone such as that."

Once again, you're putting words in my mouth.

Please, if you want to make a point, represent yourself, not me . . .
.


Great argument...again...who?

Do you think there are guys like Matt Moore that are currently free agents waitin to be picked up, that would be worth giving a modestly nice contract and could come in and learn tbe playbook almost immediately?

If so, Im waiting for names.

[TXBRONC]

Matt moore is with the dolphins. You seriously want denver to trade future draft pick(s) for a guy that in a best case scenario will not play and be here for one year?

Thats brilliant....not.

Last year Fox described Moore as the kind of quarterback that pulls the pin on a granade and then fails to get rid of it or something to that effect. Btw one of the commentators during the game against the Dolphins last years mentioned it.

[Ravage!!!]

Lets also note, that the competition to back up Manning is different than if the job was "up for grabs" to be the starter. Anyone here believe that Hanie would start over Os if the starting position was between those 2???

[Chef Zambini]

Lets also note, that the competition to back up Manning is different than if the job was "up for grabs" to be the starter. Anyone here believe that Hanie would start over Os if the starting position was between those 2???no, and thats why I say elway is hiding os !

failed pick?
absurd to pass judgement now !
questionable pick, absolutely !

[MOtorboat]

no, and thats why I say elway is hiding os !

failed pick?
absurd to pass judgement now !
questionable pick, absolutely !

"Jump to conclusions" mat.

[Chef Zambini]

everyone draws conclusions, my mat just differs from the factory unit!

[MOtorboat]

everyone draws conclusions, my mat just differs from the factory unit!

Yours is made of tin foil.

[Ravage!!!]

no, and thats why I say elway is hiding os !

failed pick?
absurd to pass judgement now !
questionable pick, absolutely !

I think you are intentionally using your words to be insulting to Elway. "Hiding" is hardly the correct word. It makes more sense to put Os as the 3rd QB right now, since they don't know the future or the situation. Fox prefers vets at QB. Thats been an understood for years. If the Broncos are winning, and Manning sprains an ankle or gets a concussion, who do you suppose Fox is going to want to put behind center? The veteran. The guy that has "been there, done that." Fox wants the experience that comes with reading NFL defenses, and has actually played in a playoff game. No one thinks that Haine is a future QB.

That being said, if Manning is going to miss a LOT of games of the season, we would still see the same thing (depending on the time of year and our record). If we have a losing record and are out of th eplayoffs, Os gets his experience time. If we have a winning record, and its late in the year, Haine is the guy. Its pretty simple.

We saw the same thing with the Rookie in Minnesota last year. But he's starting this season. We've seen this SAME scenario happen time and time again alllll over the map. The rookies that aren't coming in to start, are listed as the 3rd QB. At one time, it mattered who was listed as the 2nd or 3rd QB depending on who could come in during a game for a single play. DOesn't even matter now.

Its just embarrassing that you have this "conspiracy" issue. I say its embarrassing, because if you are posting it here, you are saying it to people when you actually get out from yoru mommy's basement. That means other people are seeing/hearing a Bronco fan, saying some really stupid things. Thats not goof for Bronco nation. So do us a favor... when you finally are able to get the parents to haul you to the super market.... don't talk to people. Its better for us, and its better for them. TIA.

[Chef Zambini]

insulting elway

hello read my signature !

I love elway, buit if you love your kids you still point out when they screw up !
I think the brock pick was a fixation pick,
fueled by JE familiarity with brock who was elways son's teammare/ roommate !

By hand picking B.O. and proclaiming him the heir apparent to PM, ELWAY essentially shuts the door on future prospects over the next 3+ years!
Is BO really that good that in the next 3 years no other prospect is going to be worthy of consideration?

we had so many needs, this #2 pick made little sense in the face of our emmediate needs and its a huge gamble to pan out for the future!
at this point he is worse than hanie , who stinks?
hello?
not a great foundaion for success if you ask me,
and I know you aint askin !

[MOtorboat]

insulting elway

hello read my signature !

I love elway, buit if you love your kids you still point out when they screw up !
I think the brock pick was a fixation pick,
fueled by JE familiarity with brock who was elways son's teammare/ roommate !

By hand picking B.O. and proclaiming him the heir apparent to PM, ELWAY essentially shuts the door on future prospects over the next 3+ years!
Is BO really that good that in the next 3 years no other prospect is going to be worthy of consideration?

we had so many needs, this #2 pick made little sense in the face of our emmediate needs and its a huge gamble to pan out for the future!
at this point he is worse than hanie , who stinks?
hello?
not a great foundaion for success if you ask me,
and I know you aint askin !

By locking down quarterback, they can address other needs in the long term. Elway has a plan here, not overreacting for position. It's a smart pick.

[Chef Zambini]

I think you are intentionally using your words to be insulting to Elway. "Hiding" is hardly the correct word. It makes more sense to put Os as the 3rd QB right now, since they don't know the future or the situation. Fox prefers vets at QB. Thats been an understood for years. If the Broncos are winning, and Manning sprains an ankle or gets a concussion, who do you suppose Fox is going to want to put behind center? The veteran. The guy that has "been there, done that." Fox wants the experience that comes with reading NFL defenses, and has actually played in a playoff game. No one thinks that Haine is a future QB.

That being said, if Manning is going to miss a LOT of games of the season, we would still see the same thing (depending on the time of year and our record). If we have a losing record and are out of th eplayoffs, Os gets his experience time. If we have a winning record, and its late in the year, Haine is the guy. Its pretty simple.

We saw the same thing with the Rookie in Minnesota last year. But he's starting this season. We've seen this SAME scenario happen time and time again alllll over the map. The rookies that aren't coming in to start, are listed as the 3rd QB. At one time, it mattered who was listed as the 2nd or 3rd QB depending on who could come in during a game for a single play. DOesn't even matter now.

Its just embarrassing that you have this "conspiracy" issue. I say its embarrassing, because if you are posting it here, you are saying it to people when you actually get out from yoru mommy's basement. That means other people are seeing/hearing a Bronco fan, saying some really stupid things. Thats not goof for Bronco nation. So do us a favor... when you finally are able to get the parents to haul you to the super market.... don't talk to people. Its better for us, and its better for them. TIA.to summerize;
I dont like hearing what you are saying, it makes me cry,
please stop
there is no sand deep enough for me to stick my head,
I want to rationalize why brock isnt good enough to unseat an incompetent like hanie!
I will use the word VETERAN and blame it on FOX,
yet I will vehemently reject any move to bring in a VET like mcnabb or young,
both of whom are more experinced and more talented than hanie!
and although there is no rational expalnation for hanie playing over os other than :

1. he is a BETTER QB
or
2. JE want to hide (shelter) OS from real game experience.
I refuse to accept either !

does that about sum it up?

[MOtorboat]

Maybe Hanie isn't as bad as you think he is, Zam...

Just saying. I'm not thrilled he's the veteran they chose to go with, but come on, give the guy a little slack. I think keeping three quarterbacks all along was the plan from the get go. The HOFer, the backup and the rookie. I don't think it's an indictment on either Osweiler or the pick.

[Chef Zambini]

Maybe Hanie isn't as bad as you think he is, Zam...

Just saying. I'm not thrilled he's the veteran they chose to go with, but come on, give the guy a little slack. I think keeping three quarterbacks all along was the plan from the get go. The HOFer, the backup and the rookie. I don't think it's an indictment on either Osweiler or the pick.hat could be true ! and I hope it is true!
but based exclusively on what I witnessed this pre-season, hanie sucks! webber was more popised and showed more accuracy ! , but then JE couldnt be so embarrased as to start WEBBER over OS, and right now JE KNOWS that OS is NOT ready to play in a real NFL game !
thats JEs evaluation, not mine ! thats why OS is #3
a complete and total RARETY for a QB who is selected in the second round !
find me another !

[MOtorboat]

hat could be true ! and I hope it is true!
but based exclusively on what I witnessed this pre-season, hanie sucks! webber was more popised and showed more accuracy ! , but then JE couldnt be so embarrased as to start WEBBER over OS, and right now JE KNOWS that OS is NOT ready to play in a real NFL game !
thats JEs evaluation, not mine ! thats why OS is #3
a complete and total RARETY for a QB who is selected in the second round !
find me another !

You're completely overreacting. Completely.

And Brett Favre and Tom Brady.

[Ravage!!!]

Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Drew Brees

[Ravage!!!]

By hand picking B.O. and proclaiming him the heir apparent to PM, ELWAY essentially shuts the door on future prospects over the next 3+ years!
Is BO really that good that in the next 3 years no other prospect is going to be worthy of consideration?

I truly do NOT understand the logic behind this statement. No matter what QB you select in the draft, and no matter when you do that, you are essentially "shutting the door" on future prospects at the QB position. The difference is we now have ours one to learn from one of the very best,WHILE, knowing we have that position addressed. Thus, OPENING the door to fill other positions while GROOMING the most important position on the team. Why do you think its smarter to have an "unknown", open hole, un-filled position with the HOPE of finding someone "better?" How is that smarter? How is that looking to the future? How is that, at all, planning ahead???

I hope you are better with your retirement plan than this line of thinking. Right now, I'm guessing you have the "lets just hope some money falls into our hands at 65. In the meantime, lets just spend without thinking."

[Chef Zambini]

Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Drew Breeswhat is this a list of?
it certainly isnt QBs drafted in the second round !
it certainly ISNT a list of QBs who started out the season as the #3 QB!
so why would you post their names here?
it sure as hell is not a response to me,
unless you want to help demonstrate how far you are willing to stick your head in the sand to avoid reality !

[Chef Zambini]

I truly do NOT understand the logic behind this statement. No matter what QB you select in the draft, and no matter when you do that, you are essentially "shutting the door" on future prospects at the QB position. The difference is we now have ours one to learn from one of the very best,WHILE, knowing we have that position addressed. Thus, OPENING the door to fill other positions while GROOMING the most important position on the team. Why do you think its smarter to have an "unknown", open hole, un-filled position with the HOPE of finding someone "better?" How is that smarter? How is that looking to the future? How is that, at all, planning ahead???


I hope you are better with your retirement plan than this line of thinking. Right now, I'm guessing you have the "lets just hope some money falls into our hands at 65. In the meantime, lets just spend without thinking."are JE and the broncos going to draft another QB in the next 3 years?
of course not! that wha I would call a closed door. you again AVOID the reality of that and refer to the open doors for other positions, thats called rationalization !

[Chef Zambini]

so you admit that JEs plan for the future is brock O.
I liken that to a handful of magic beans for a 401K !

[Ravage!!!]

what is this a list of?
it certainly isnt QBs drafted in the second round !
it certainly ISNT a list of QBs who started out the season as the #3 QB!
so why would you post their names here?
it sure as hell is not a response to me,
unless you want to help demonstrate how far you are willing to stick your head in the sand to avoid reality !

relax. I thought the question was stating its rare to find a QB drafted in the second round or later. What difference does it make if Drew Brees started off as the #3?? He didn't have Peyton Manning on the team. Hell, the SD chargers drafted Eli #1 overall because of Brees starting.

You are the one that is completely out of reality :lol: But you just keep pretending you see the "light" that no one else sees, and continue to believe that Vince Young would be an improvement over ANYONE :lol: In the mean time, we'll just keep patting your head and nodding to your grand theories.

[MOtorboat]

so you admit that JEs plan for the future is brock O.
I liken that to a handful of magic beans for a 401K !

Who has said he isn't?

[Ravage!!!]

are JE and the broncos going to draft another QB in the next 3 years?
of course not! that wha I would call a closed door. you again AVOID the reality of that and refer to the open doors for other positions, thats called rationalization !

Genius, thats the point I just made to you....bonk. Try to keep up. No matter WHEN we drafted a QB for the team's future, we wouldn't be drafting another QB for the next 3 years after that. The difference is, that now we get OUR QB to be learning from one of the very best, instead of the "lets hope there is someone out there, when we draft, later on, without knowing whats around the corner" plan. We have a guy in place, to learn, to study, and to develop under a great QB. How can you not see that this is MUCH more sound than the "lets hope there is something else out there later" plan that you, for some very very odd reason, seem to think is better?

[Chef Zambini]

our hope for the future cant beat out hanie in the present, either you admit that or
you admit that JE does not want to expose the future to the present,
its one or the other !
and either conclusion is pathetic !

[Ravage!!!]

so you admit that JEs plan for the future is brock O.
I liken that to a handful of magic beans for a 401K !

Right, as MO said.... I'm pretty sure that EVERYONE knows this to be a fact....yes. The JE plan is for Brock to be the QB after Manning. Bingo. You finally got one.

[Chef Zambini]

ghosh, whats the chance that there will be future NFL prospects in the draft and FA QB available in the next 3 years?
so remote we better grab a sure thing like brock osweiler while we can !
a guy who is so talented, all he needs is experience, which of course we will deny him in his first year !
yeh this sounds like a brilliant gameplan to me, what was I thinking?
did you water those magic beans today?

[MOtorboat]

ghosh, whats the chance that there will be future NFL prospects in the draft and FA QB available in the next 3 years?
so remote we better grab a sure thing like brock osweiler while we can !
a guy who is so talented, all he needs is experience, which of course we will deny him in his first year !
yeh this sounds like a brilliant gameplan to me, what was I thinking?
did you water those magic beans today?

With that logic they should never draft anyone anytime.

[Chef Zambini]

Right, as MO said.... I'm pretty sure that EVERYONE knows this to be a fact....yes. The JE plan is for Brock to be the QB after Manning. Bingo. You finally got one.
so then you must admit that JE is hiding the future from the present by putting hanie in front of him !
or do you think hanie is beter than brock, our future?

[MOtorboat]

so then you must admit that JE is hiding the future from the present by putting hanie in front of him !
or do you think hanie is beter than brock, our future?

They are not hiding anything.

This was Elway's plan all along, regardless of who that quarterback was.

It's not a conspiracy theory.

[Chef Zambini]

os was not drafted for the NOW,
he was drafted for the FUTURE, but ANY player you draft with your #2 pick in the draft, you expect to be able to contribute in the NOW !
any player, any position! and when you draft a QBin a spot that PRECLUDES any future drafting of the QB position, it is reasonable to expect that guy to beable to assume the role of #2 and be able to copme in as the back-up and keep the team competitive, or at the very least learn and develop from the experience !
again I ask you to name one single QB that was drafted in the second round were this was NOT true !
you cant ! brock is sucjh a project, they want to avoid putting him on the field ! let me remind you the same was true of TT and the clown that sected him and one look at TT and it was easy to see why JMCD was so reluctant to start him in the games !
deja vue all over again !

[MOtorboat]

Elway has a plan!

Burn him at the stake! Zam, your conspiracy theories are hilarious.

[Chef Zambini]

They are not hiding anything.

This was Elway's plan all along, regardless of who that quarterback was.

It's not a conspiracy theory.
plan alll along.
I call that a fixation !
its scary similar to TT and JMCD !
and now between this year and the next 3-4 years the door will be shut on the opportunity to bring in ANY other QB that can contend for the starting job !
what are the odds that BO is the next aaron rogers?
based on the fact that he is right now worse than hainie ,
not very likely !
I hope I NEVER have to watch OS or hanie lead our broncos in a real game over the next 3 years, but if PM is out and OS gets a clipboard instead of a helmet with a green dot, I have to ask JE, WTF were you thinking wasting our second pick on this kid, who now you would rather HIDE than offer game eperince ?
WTF !

[Denver Native (Carol)]

so then you must admit that JE is hiding the future from the present by putting hanie in front of him !
or do you think hanie is beter than brock, our future?

JE is not hiding the future. Hanie is in front of Brock as Hanie has pro experience.

[Chef Zambini]

so then you must admit that JE is hiding the future from the present by putting hanie in front of him !
or do you think hanie is beter than brock, our future?
neither mo or ravage will answer this question !

[Chef Zambini]

JE is not hiding the future. Hanie is in front of Brock as Hanie has pro experience.
so does jmarcus russel,
TT
brady quinn
mcnabb
young, etc.
but no other vet makes ANY sense for our broncos,
HANIEis our answer for the now
and os is our hope for the future?
sleep well tonight, my friends with your heads on your pillows, about ten inches deep in the sand !

[Chef Zambini]

JE is not hiding the future. Hanie is in front of Brock as Hanie has pro experience.so maybe YOU can name a QB that was drafted in the second round that was NOT the #2 QB his rookie season?
in the entire history of the NFL or AFL, can you name one?
try a BYU QB who had to go on his mission first !
good luck !
or a NAVY QB who still had a military commitment to fulfill?
find me one other than BROCK !
search the world wide web !
there must be ONE !

[Chef Zambini]

stAY HEALTHY PEYTON !

[MOtorboat]

neither mo or ravage will answer this question !

I have. You don't like the answer. You think it's a conspiracy theory, or an indictment of Elway's intelligence.

This is the plan. Sign Peyton Manning and a veteran backup. Draft a quarterback in the middle rounds and let him sit the bench. THAT's the answer. THAT's the plan.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have. You don't like the answer. You think it's a conspiracy theory, or an indictment of Elway's intelligence.

This is the plan. Sign Peyton Manning and a veteran backup. Draft a quarterback in the middle rounds and let him sit the bench. THAT's the answer. THAT's the plan.

Sounds like a good plan to me, and also makes a lot of sense - BUT, what the heck does Elway know about the QB position

[Simple Jaded]

so maybe YOU can name a QB that was drafted in the second round that was NOT the #2 QB his rookie season?
in the entire history of the NFL or AFL, can you name one?
try a BYU QB who had to go on his mission first !
good luck !
or a NAVY QB who still had a military commitment to fulfill?
find me one other than BROCK !
search the world wide web !
there must be ONE !

They're basically redshirting Osweiler, Zam, it's not an issue.......

[Hawgdriver]

Yes. It's a failed pick as of 9/3/12. He's taking up roster space. That roster space could go toward depth. Mid-season, we will have injuries. Some position will lack enough depth. Os will be hurting our SB chances at that point.

However, in two years he may be a positive addition. I hope so. It remains to be seen. It's fine to use a negative label at this point, hell, he's taking up space. Neither Hanie nor Os are leading us to a SB, so any QB2 QB3 roster space is wasted, really. Right now.

[Simple Jaded]

Most teams carry 3 QB's, all of them taking up a roster spot.......

[Hawgdriver]

The point is that until you have injuries, you can't say if holding QB2, QB3 is a waste. QB2, QB3 don't rotate and take reps in the game like other positions.

Can a quality QB2 secure a SB victory? Exhibit 1: Plunkett, Exhibit 2: Flutie, Exhibit 3: Hostetler, etc..

Can a quality QB3 secure a SB victory? Exhibit 1: Warner.

Maybe Os is Exhibit 2. That would be awesome. But right now, he's taking up space. It may be standard practice. Well, standard practice is that insurance policies are deadweight. Especially given Elway's comments that PFM is Plan A, and there is only Plan A.

[Simple Jaded]

The majority of teams keep 3 QB's, it is standard operating proceedure. It is not a wasted draft pick, nor is it taking up space, it is simply a fact of F'n NFL life. OL don't rotate either, yet they kept 9.......

[Chef Zambini]

They're basically redshirting Osweiler, Zam, it's not an issue.......nice deflection with a colloge strategy designed to get an exra year of development for guys who have LIMITED 4 year opportunity ! cant name a single QB can ANY of YOU !
OS was overdarfated ! he was a fixation and now JE has to red shirt hiom, or HIDE him from action, sorry to be so anti semantic !
JE does not want the bronco faithful to see how worthless brocko is right now!
WEBBER is beter than OS right now, how would it look if WEBBER went in before OS ?
thats why JE had to keep captain incompetent, hnie !
pathetic !
of course its not a big deal right now. it becomes a big deal if somebody has to play for PM.
its a big deal when you woulfd rather HIDE your future QB than give him real game experience!
that is a very big deal, it is the first time EVER, if you dont count TEBOW !
a FRDC that JMCD was afraid to put in a game as anything other than a gimmick !

[BroncoNut]

I had a lengthy Twitter exchange tonight with Eric Goodman, who is the afternoon drive time host on Mile High Sports radio. He's contention was that the fact that Osweiler couldn't win the backup job, and is starting the season as the #3 QB indicates it was a bad pick, since he was a 2nd round pick. He also went on to ask if there has ever been a QB who was the #3 QB his rookie year whoever amounted to anything. While I could not come up with an example, or multiple, off the top of my head during the exchange, I find it hard to believe there haven't been QBs that turned out to be quality starters, who were #3 their rookie year.

So, I thought it would be a good discussion. Does Osweiler's performance this preseason and his failure to beat out Hanne for the backup spot mean it was a bad pick? Is it a given that a QB picked in the 2nd round should at least be able to be the team's backup year one? Can we judge the pick after one preseason?

Also, what about examples of QBs that were third string their rookie years that then "amounted to something." Is he right, that it's an indication that Brock's fate is already sealed?

What say you?

there's a reason you couldn't think of one example of a rookie qb at #3 qb on the roster moving on to have an above average career in the NFL. It just doesn't happen

[NightTerror218]

IMO the only reason he is #3 is because Elway/Fox want to make a SB push and think with a good backup QB they could still do it if Manning goes down. I think haine blows and Osweiler could be better, they wanted a Vet backup for that scenario. Next season I see no reason to keep a Vet backup to Manning though. Osweiler is going to be a 3rd or 4th year starer giving Manning 2-3 years of play.

[Cugel]

I don't believe it guarantees he will fail. But it is a bad sign that he could not beat out a guy like Hanie.

You might have noticed that Adam Weber looked the best of the three backup QBs and he didn't even make the roster.

Why is that? Answer: Because they're not looking at putting in a rookie as Peyton Manning's replacement. They want a veteran. Hence Haney. Period.

If Osweiler had played like Andrew Luck could he have beaten out Hanie? Maybe. We don't really know the answer to that. Lots of talk about how the Broncos were looking to go with only 2 QBs and were giving Osweiler the chance to prove he's ready, blah, blah, blah.

But, none of that speculation came from Dove Valley. All of it came from sports talk show hosts making assumptions.

In truth, Fox has always HATED starting rookies. He wasn't going to start his 1st pick, Derek Wolfe despite how good he looked in the pre-season until Jason Hunter went down for the season.

And if Manning were hurt and was going to miss a couple of games? Does Fox really want to start a rookie? NO! Of course, if Manning were lost for the season at any point there would be no real purpose in starting Hanie. Hanie is never going to lead the Broncos on a playoff run.

In that case it's Osweiler time. Might as well get him some experience.

But, it's idiotic to assume that because 21 year old Brock Osweiler didn't beat out the veteran Hanie to become the backup to Manning, that he's a bust.

A big part of the reason Denver drafted him is that he's NOT ready. They didn't WANT a 27 year old QB like Russell Wilson who might be ready this year or next.

They WANT a raw rookie with some basic skills whom they can mold into a starting QB the way Green Bay did with Aaron Rogers.

Is Osweiler ever going to become Aaron Rogers? Who knows? He certainly is nothing like him now. But, he's also going to be content to sit on the bench for 3 or 4 years and work on his development because by the time Manning retires he'll only be 24 or 25 years old. (Weber is 27 now and Brandon Weeden whom the Broncos liked and might have tried to draft if he were available and if Manning had chosen another team, is 29).

[BroncoNut]

imo the only reason he is #3 is because elway/fox want to make a sb push and think with a good backup qb they could still do it if manning goes down. I think haine blows and osweiler could be better, they wanted a vet backup for that scenario. Next season i see no reason to keep a vet backup to manning though. Osweiler is going to be a 3rd or 4th year starer giving manning 2-3 years of play.
that's my thinking too. If it comes to where peyton goes down and henne steps in, it will be nmt 4 games before oz starts

[Ravage!!!]

Yes. It's a failed pick as of 9/3/12. He's taking up roster space. That roster space could go toward depth. Mid-season, we will have injuries. Some position will lack enough depth. Os will be hurting our SB chances at that point.

However, in two years he may be a positive addition. I hope so. It remains to be seen. It's fine to use a negative label at this point, hell, he's taking up space. Neither Hanie nor Os are leading us to a SB, so any QB2 QB3 roster space is wasted, really. Right now.

How is he taking up "roster space" when a roster spot would already be filled with someone at that position? Makes ZERO sense. How many situations have you seen where an NFL team hires a guy like Manning to "man the ship" for a 3 year stint? None. Why would it not make sense to have someone learning from him, while they can, instead of "hoping" to find someone later?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Remember when Tebow was our 4th stringer...until Orton needed pulled. The depth chart may say one thing and something completely different could transpire when push comes to shove.

[Simple Jaded]

nice deflection with a colloge strategy designed to get an exra year of development for guys who have LIMITED 4 year opportunity ! cant name a single QB can ANY of YOU !
OS was overdarfated ! he was a fixation and now JE has to red shirt hiom, or HIDE him from action, sorry to be so anti semantic !
JE does not want the bronco faithful to see how worthless brocko is right now!
WEBBER is beter than OS right now, how would it look if WEBBER went in before OS ?
thats why JE had to keep captain incompetent, hnie !
pathetic !
of course its not a big deal right now. it becomes a big deal if somebody has to play for PM.
its a big deal when you woulfd rather HIDE your future QB than give him real game experience!
that is a very big deal, it is the first time EVER, if you dont count TEBOW !
a FRDC that JMCD was afraid to put in a game as anything other than a gimmick !I'm not saying he wasn't overdrafted, l wouldn't have taken a QB that high. I am saying that it's not an issue, the Broncos may actually look at his spot on the depth chart as a good thing.

As far as this being a failed pick, I look at it the same way Manning explained his decision to sign with Denver when he said it's up to him to make it the right decision. It's the same thing with this pick, it's up to Osweiler and the Broncos to make this pick the right decision.

The Broncos didn't think he'd be there with their 3rd round pick and it's not like they took an option QB with massive developmental issues with a 1st round pick. The second round is not too high to take a project and Osweiler certainly appears to have the physical skills to develope. It's not hard to see why Elway was "fixated" on drafting this project.......

[MOtorboat]

Uh-oh. Elway said there's only going to be two active quarterbacks on the Gameday roster (you're only allowed 46 active players). That ought to get Zam's blood boiling.

[12and4]

this thread can't be serious...

[Dzone]

So Osweiler might not even suit up? Bust!

[rationalfan]

How could osweiler be a bust when he had no expectations to succeed? He's a developmental player, not a franchise savior. We all seemed to acknowledge that after the draft. What changed?

By the way, if I could ban one word on this board it would be "bust." it's thrown around too loosely.

[Dzone]

Lol!

[Chef Zambini]

I'm not saying he wasn't overdrafted, l wouldn't have taken a QB that high. I am saying that it's not an issue, the Broncos may actually look at his spot on the depth chart as a good thing.

As far as this being a failed pick, I look at it the same way Manning explained his decision to sign with Denver when he said it's up to him to make it the right decision. It's the same thing with this pick, it's up to Osweiler and the Broncos to make this pick the right decision.

The Broncos didn't think he'd be there with their 3rd round pick and it's not like they took an option QB with massive developmental issues with a 1st round pick. The second round is not too high to take a project and Osweiler certainly appears to have the physical skills to develope. It's not hard to see why Elway was "fixated" on drafting this project.......nobody in the NFL is EVER going to say, " we missed our chance at brock osweiler! "
he wasnt gpoing to be around for our THIRD round pick?
who gives a flying F?
other than JE, nobody !
lame use of a pick, likely to be a poor investment that JE will continue to try and justify by disregarding other QB options for the next 4 years !
oif JE "red-shirts" BO.
just like JMCD red-shirted tebow,
we likely will discover the reasons are the same!

[Chef Zambini]

osweiler is ALREADY the official, ordained, FUYURE of the franchise! this according to the most powerful person in broncoland, ELWAY !
so dont expect JE to bring in anyone who could possibly unseat BO as the heir apparant, that would be an admission of FALIURE !
for now,O is so inept, JE is AFRAID to display his lack of ability against ral NFL starters in a real NFL game !
JE thinks that exposing BO to a real game will NOT be a bevfit to his project, his learning his 'lack of experience"
the big excuse for BO is that he lacks experience!
JEs gameplan for this year is to make sure it stays that way?
brilliant !

[Simple Jaded]

nobody in the NFL is EVER going to say, " we missed our chance at brock osweiler! "
he wasnt gpoing to be around for our THIRD round pick?
who gives a flying F?
other than JE, nobody !
lame use of a pick, likely to be a poor investment that JE will continue to try and justify by disregarding other QB options for the next 4 years !
oif JE "red-shirts" BO.
just like JMCD red-shirted tebow,
we likely will discover the reasons are the same!I give a Flying **** if Osweiler wouldn't be there with their 3rd, you don't, but who gives a Flying **** about what the **** you and I give a Flying **** about? Elway wanted to draft Osweiler bad enough to take him at the end of the 2nd round, that is nowhere near the kind of investment made in the case of Tim Tebow. Osweiler has a much better skill set and the end of the second is a much better place to take a project.

If Tebow were drafted at the end of round 2 he might still be here.

As far as Elway hiding a mistake, he just gave Drayton Florence $1.5 mil for 4 months worth of work and then cut him, so I doubt he's worried about what we think of his personnel decisions.......

[rcsodak]

OMG! He was a 1yr starter, a basketball player who Elway saw POTENTIAL in. To even THINK he could come in and supplant a veteran qb right out of camp, is not only ridiculous, but assinine.
There's a reason he was called the "qb of the future". Is this dude serious or just bored and couldnt think of anything else to say?

[rcsodak]

I give a Flying **** if Osweiler wouldn't be there with their 3rd, you don't, but who gives a Flying **** about what the **** you and I give a Flying **** about? Elway wanted to draft Osweiler bad enough to take him at the end of the 2nd round, that is nowhere near the kind of investment made in the case of Tim Tebow. Osweiler has a much better skill set and the end of the second is a much better place to take a project.

If Tebow were drafted at the end of round 2 he might still be here.

As far as Elway hiding a mistake, he just gave Drayton Florence $1.5 mil for 4 months worth of work and then cut him, so I doubt he's worried about what we think of his personnel decisions.......

Was florence's contract guaranteed or have a signing bonus?
If so, thats too bad. He WAS a bust FA signing. Imho

[tubby]

Lavonte David

[Cugel]

Yea, this sums up my feeling pretty well.

I know not long after the draft, maybe a few weeks, I was talking to a friend at work about the draft, and the Osweiler pick in general, and pointing out how he seemed to be looked at as a 2-3 year prospect, to take over when Manning was ready to retire. He pointed out, and I think very correctly, if that was the way he was looked at, then why didn't the team address more specific needs in this draft (as they did have a lot of holes/needs) and they could very easily gotten a similar QB with a similar pick next year.

Now, if they see something in Osweiler where they think he will be REALLY special, far better than your normal 2nd/3rd round QB, but that he just needs time to grow into it, then I guess the pick makes sense. I've been on the fence about this pick ever since they made it.

That is exactly what I argued from before the draft when people said the Broncos could/should draft a QB.

I have wondered ever since why they couldn't have waited until next year to draft a developmental QB and taken a player who might have made an impact THIS season and certainly next like LB Dont'a Hightower who was available when they picked at #25.

Of course they might not have liked him, but there were certainly picks available in the 2nd round when they picked who might have helped them.

The answer seems to have been due to these considerations:

1. They wanted as much time to develop a rookie QB as possible while Manning is still around. In today's Post they said Manning actually suggested that they use a high draft pick to take a rookie QB who he could mentor.

2. Such a rookie QB would have to be quite young, because he would have to sit behind Peyton Manning for probably at least 3 years and possibly as many as 5 (certainly there's an outside chance Manning plays until he's 40). Someone like Weber would be 32 years old when Manning retired in that scenario and Brandon Weeden would be 34 and about ready to retire! Osweiler is only 21 so he would only be 26 in the longest case scenario where he sits for 5 years, or one year YOUNGER than Weber is right now.

3. There's no guarantee Manning will play more than 1 season so they needed to make a move THIS season. Personally, I discount this possibility, but they seem to have taken it more seriously. If Jerry Rice could play into his 40's I see no reason why Peyton Manning can't. The QB is now much more protected in the pocket than even 10 years ago, and Manning seldom gets hit because he releases the ball so soon. But, they need some protection against an early Manning retirement.

4. Elway fell in love with Osweiler's potential. His son goes to AZ State and there's that connection. He scouted Osweiler and liked his size and mechanics.

5. Osweiler was so raw that he would fall into the 2nd round, which was the highest Elway wanted to draft a QB. Yet, he's a decent prospect from a physical standpoint. It was expected that if he had played an additional year in college he could have been a potential 1st round pick. He was certainly a consensus 2nd round pick this year.

All these reasons combined to make Elway draft Osweiler. Xanders may not have liked it, but then Xanders was quickly gone after the draft and his disagreements may well have greased the skids under his departure.

This is Elway's show now and he's the boss. Period.

[Cugel]

Remember when Tebow was our 4th stringer...until Orton needed pulled. The depth chart may say one thing and something completely different could transpire when push comes to shove.

Are you suggesting that Manning will BOMB like Kyle Orton did, so they need an extra QB? :laugh:



Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
Yes. It's a failed pick as of 9/3/12. He's taking up roster space. That roster space could go toward depth. Mid-season, we will have injuries. Some position will lack enough depth. Os will be hurting our SB chances at that point.

However, in two years he may be a positive addition. I hope so. It remains to be seen. It's fine to use a negative label at this point, hell, he's taking up space. Neither Hanie nor Os are leading us to a SB, so any QB2 QB3 roster space is wasted, really. Right now.


This post is even more idiotic than the previous one!

Exactly WHICH player did the Broncos cut who would be so great an impact player this season?

Syd'Quan Thompson whom they didn't even want on their practice squad?

Mike Mohammed (ditto)?

Drayton Florence, whom they cut because he couldn't even beat out Tony Carter, despite their having given him a $1 million signing bonus?

I've thought over the list of players they cut and NOT ONE OF THEM would have had any impact this season!

You can certainly argue that Denver should have drafted someone in the 2nd round who could have come in and played a role this season and next instead of Osweiler. We'll just have to wait and see how he develops to know if that was a mistake or not.

But, you CAN'T say that they cut some potentially great player! (No Adam Weber isn't going to be great either. He's an undrafted 27 year old guy who is sitting on a practice squad. NOBODY even wanted him on their 53 man roster and the Broncos could re-sign him today if they wanted him and were willing to make room on their roster for him).

They had a few guys who were cut and picked up by other teams, but none of them was that great that their loss will be a big deal.

[Dzone]

Hopefully Osweiler turns out better than this LOL
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/malibubluff/nypost.jpg

[Simple Jaded]

Was florence's contract guaranteed or have a signing bonus?
If so, thats too bad. He WAS a bust FA signing. Imho

$1.5 mil signing bonus, iirc. True, he was definitely a bust.

Forgive me rationalfan, unless Carter is much improved Drayton Florence deserves the bust label.......

[catfish]

Are you suggesting that Manning will BOMB like Kyle Orton did, so they need an extra QB? :laugh:




This post is even more idiotic than the previous one!

Exactly WHICH player did the Broncos cut who would be so great an impact player this season?

Syd'Quan Thompson whom they didn't even want on their practice squad?

Mike Mohammed (ditto)?

Drayton Florence, whom they cut because he couldn't even beat out Tony Carter, despite their having given him a $1 million signing bonus?

I've thought over the list of players they cut and NOT ONE OF THEM would have had any impact this season!

You can certainly argue that Denver should have drafted someone in the 2nd round who could have come in and played a role this season and next instead of Osweiler. We'll just have to wait and see how he develops to know if that was a mistake or not.

But, you CAN'T say that they cut some potentially great player! (No Adam Weber isn't going to be great either. He's an undrafted 27 year old guy who is sitting on a practice squad. NOBODY even wanted him on their 53 man roster and the Broncos could re-sign him today if they wanted him and were willing to make room on their roster for him).

They had a few guys who were cut and picked up by other teams, but none of them was that great that their loss will be a big deal.

I agree with your assement, the use of the pick could be questioned, but now that it has been done it is way too early to see if it works out or not. My personal thought is that Osweiler will be fine, but won't be so great that a similar talent won't be available next year or the following year. The pick could have been used to close some roster holes to help get you guys to the superbowl. Seems a bit like not paying your mortgage in order to save for retirement, but it's spilled milk now and I hope it works out for the best.

[silkamilkamonico]

5. Osweiler was so raw that he would fall into the 2nd round, which was the highest Elway wanted to draft a QB. Yet, he's a decent prospect from a physical standpoint. It was expected that if he had played an additional year in college he could have been a potential 1st round pick. He was certainly a consensus 2nd round pick this year.

This is a very good point of discussion. Osweiler was an extrememly young and raw prospect. He likely would have been a first round pick if he stayed another year, and could of very well been a top 10 pick. Elway wanted Brock Osweiler, not necessarily "any young QB", IMHO.

IMHO, Elway felt drafting a 21 year old kid to sit and learn from Peyton Manning (I am sure Elway is going to do everything possible to personally help Osweiler develop as well) is much better than even if Osweiler stayed a year in school and refined his potential to be a first draft pick.

I think it's brillinat myself, and I am not completey convinced Osweiler will work out as denver's future. I will say, I am trusting that Elway knows what he's doing, and I certainly wouldn't bomb Elway if Osweiler didn't work out.

[Mike]

Man, people are dumb. I didn't like the pick at the time and think it was a waste, but comeon man. He may be a bust in the long run, but was viewed as a project going into it...

I think you got to be a special kind of stupid to make that argument already.

[Ravage!!!]

This is a very good point of discussion. Osweiler was an extrememly young and raw prospect. He likely would have been a first round pick if he stayed another year, and could of very well been a top 10 pick. Elway wanted Brock Osweiler, not necessarily "any young QB", IMHO.

IMHO, Elway felt drafting a 21 year old kid to sit and learn from Peyton Manning (I am sure Elway is going to do everything possible to personally help Osweiler develop as well) is much better than even if Osweiler stayed a year in school and refined his potential to be a first draft pick.

I think it's brillinat myself, and I am not completey convinced Osweiler will work out as denver's future. I will say, I am trusting that Elway knows what he's doing, and I certainly wouldn't bomb Elway if Osweiler didn't work out.

Not only did we get a 1st round talent in the 2nd roudn THIS year (saving on several things)...but another reason not to wait until NEXT year is the simple possibility that Manning may not make it 3 years. What if he doesn't? What if he makes it only 2? Then, what if you didn't have a prospect at QB that you could take that you feel could develop into a top QB? Os had already made the decision not to go back to school, so not playing through his senior year had already been chosen. Now its making the best out of a talented young man.

I'm with Silk on th is one. I don't really know if Os will work out for Denver in the long run. Lets face it, the odds are HIGHLY against ANY QB taken (unless you are a Luck type of QB) to make it in the NFL. But considering the circumstances, we absolutely have a chance to develop a young kid under fantastic circumstances and a great situation. The "thinking" and "Mind" of a QB is his most valuable asset in the NFL. Os can already throw the ball (of course he could get better)...but getting the chance to study and learn under manning is a HUGE dividend. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But I don't think this is something to "hang" Elway over..... no way.

[jhildebrand]

He isn't a failed pick until he fails in enough games to get himself cut/gone.

EDIT: Was Aaron Rodgers a failed pick for 3-4 seasons? :confused:

[NightTerror218]

Elways talks about a QB confidence as a key part about whether they fail or not in the NFL. I have no problems with Oz riding the pine this year as #3 and then possibly being the #2 next year after getting a year under his belt.

[Chef Zambini]

Not only did we get a 1st round talent in the 2nd roudn THIS year (saving on several things)...but another reason not to wait until NEXT year is the simple possibility that Manning may not make it 3 years. What if he doesn't? What if he makes it only 2? Then, what if you didn't have a prospect at QB that you could take that you feel could develop into a top QB? Os had already made the decision not to go back to school, so not playing through his senior year had already been chosen. Now its making the best out of a talented young man.

I'm with Silk on th is one. I don't really know if Os will work out for Denver in the long run. Lets face it, the odds are HIGHLY against ANY QB taken (unless you are a Luck type of QB) to make it in the NFL. But considering the circumstances, we absolutely have a chance to develop a young kid under fantastic circumstances and a great situation. The "thinking" and "Mind" of a QB is his most valuable asset in the NFL. Os can already throw the ball (of course he could get better)...but getting the chance to study and learn under manning is a HUGE dividend. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But I don't think this is something to "hang" Elway over..... no way.
Youmake a great arguement for the CIRCUMSTANCES, NOT the candidate!
right now our FUTURE, is too incompetent to unseat HANIE!
He is so pahetic, our future, that JE is afraid to expose him to a real game !
he wont benefit from real game experience?
again, I ask, what other QB taken in the second round, was not the back-up for his new NFL team! OS is the ONLY ! thats because he is unworthy !
if he could do it, he would be given a chance! instead JE has to red shirt a pro and HIDE him from the reality of the game and spare them both the embarrasement of seeing how incompetent he currently is !
if not, LET HIM PLAY !
() which of course, we all hope he never does over the next 3 years)

[Chef Zambini]

Elways talks about a QB confidence as a key part about whether they fail or not in the NFL. I have no problems with Oz riding the pine this year as #3 and then possibly being the #2 next year after getting a year under his belt.
more rationalization !
where is the list of all tyhose other QBs taken in the second round, that were NOT their teams first in line back-up?
75 years of football, where is that LIST?
here it is
1. brock osweiler
2 thru infinity. absolutely nobody else !
Brock o was a fixation, and a "reach" selection, whose presense will eliminate ANY considerations for drafting or bringing in ANY OTHER QB that can become our starting QB !
we have MANNING, and then we have shit!
sorry, I have watched hanie in these pre-season games, he looks like shit!
and OS, he is apperently worse than shit, because he is rated by the guy that drafted hin as less than hanie.
so os is worse than shit.
you guys can spread all the shinola you weant, we still have the best 51 man roster after TC

[Ravage!!!]

Until he's actually "hidden".. your speculation, hyperbole, and exaggeration is nothing less than ridiculous spew that holds zero water and clout. I ahve absolutely NO .. none... zero... reason to believe that if the competition truly came down between Hanie and Os to be the starter, that Os would be the man. Right now, we are talking nothing more than a title on a piece of paper that means diddly squat to the happenings of this team, or the draft choices that are involved. This is just another made-up topic of "concern" and criticism that you have jumped on, and latched yourself to, because it gives you the attention you long for.

[NightTerror218]

more rationalization !
where is the list of all tyhose other QBs taken in the second round, that were NOT their teams first in line back-up?
75 years of football, where is that LIST?
here it is
1. brock osweiler
2 thru infinity. absolutely nobody else !
Brock o was a fixation, and a "reach" selection, whose presense will eliminate ANY considerations for drafting or bringing in ANY OTHER QB that can become our starting QB !
we have MANNING, and then we have shit!
sorry, I have watched hanie in these pre-season games, he looks like shit!
and OS, he is apperently worse than shit, because he is rated by the guy that drafted hin as less than hanie.
so os is worse than shit.
you guys can spread all the shinola you weant, we still have the best 51 man roster after TC

It doesn't matter. Elway already talked about taking things slow with Oz letting him learn behind Manning. IMO i dont give a fly **** because he is not our starting QB, Manning is. I do not want to imagine Manning going down. If he does, depending on where we are and games left could mean a lot more time for Oz on the field. I think Fox will play Oz if we are creaming anyone in the 4th.

[Mike]

more rationalization !
where is the list of all tyhose other QBs taken in the second round, that were NOT their teams first in line back-up?
75 years of football, where is that LIST?
here it is
1. brock osweiler
2 thru infinity. absolutely nobody else !
Brock o was a fixation, and a "reach" selection, whose presense will eliminate ANY considerations for drafting or bringing in ANY OTHER QB that can become our starting QB !
we have MANNING, and then we have shit!
sorry, I have watched hanie in these pre-season games, he looks like shit!
and OS, he is apperently worse than shit, because he is rated by the guy that drafted hin as less than hanie.
so os is worse than shit.
you guys can spread all the shinola you weant, we still have the best 51 man roster after TC

You don't know what the FO is thinking, so this is all speculative bullshit. They could be slow-rolling the QB and letting him adjust, digest, and learn. You know, developing talent.

[Chef Zambini]

He isn't a failed pick until he fails in enough games to get himself cut/gone.

EDIT: Was Aaron Rodgers a failed pick for 3-4 seasons? :confused:
not failed WASTED !
and now that OS is the proclaimed heir apparent, our broncos will NOT allow themselves to even consider another over the next 3 years !
did you say aaron rogers?
whern was he ever listed as the teams #3 QB?
when was he held out of a game or a play that brett farvre could not compete?
aaron rogers pushed bret favreout the door before he was done, before he was ready to go !
when brock osweiler pushes a healthy peyton manning to the bench, I will shut up! til then, this is an albatrose around the neck of my beloved john elway !
sorry JE, this was not a smart football decision, and now you are acting like JMCD trying to hide it !

[MOtorboat]

not failed WASTED !
and now that OS is the proclaimed heir apparent, our broncos will NOT allow themselves to even consider another over the next 3 years !
did you say aaron rogers?
whern was he ever listed as the teams #3 QB?
when was he held out of a game or a play that brett farvre could not compete?
aaron rogers pushed bret favreout the door before he was done, before he was ready to go !
when brock osweiler pushes a healthy peyton manning to the bench, I will shut up! til then, this is an albatrose around the neck of my beloved john elway !
sorry JE, this was not a smart football decision, and now you are acting like JMCD trying to hide it !

ror

[MOtorboat]

The best parts about Zam's tirades are when people point out specific inaccuracies (in this case the "no third string QBs have ever been good" wonk) and several days later he goes right back to it...

Wait, didn't you call US the ostriches?

[Ravage!!!]

not failed WASTED !
and now that OS is the proclaimed heir apparent, our broncos will NOT allow themselves to even consider another over the next 3 years !
did you say aaron rogers?
whern was he ever listed as the teams #3 QB?
when was he held out of a game or a play that brett farvre could not compete?
aaron rogers pushed bret favreout the door before he was done, before he was ready to go !
when brock osweiler pushes a healthy peyton manning to the bench, I will shut up! til then, this is an albatrose around the neck of my beloved john elway !
sorry JE, this was not a smart football decision, and now you are acting like JMCD trying to hide it !

This is just drivel at best. Rodgers was on the bench for 3 years. Guess what, do they consider it a wasted pick since they didn't draft another QB?? Rodgers didn't "push" Favre out the door until the 1st round pick had been around for a while. How DARE GB waste that pick, and how DARE them not consider another QB in allll those years they had Favre and Rodgers on the bench!!!

Of course Denver won't draft another QB. Why would they? Why would they need to? Whats the point? Hopefully we'll have good enough records (which is the point anyway) to not have HIGH 1st round picks, anyway. You absolutely are making zero sense.

[Chef Zambini]

You don't know what the FO is thinking, so this is all speculative bullshit. They could be slow-rolling the QB and letting him adjust, digest, and learn. You know, developing talent.
what is speculative?
that JE called BO our FUTURE?
tha HANIE will play before BO does?
you think saying hanie stinks is speculative?
you think that since JE has proclaimed BO as our future, that wont stop the broncos from having a look at another QB down the rode?
what is speculative?
when I watched JE reluctantly applaud the on the field success of TEBOW, whilke trying to clear the VOMIT from his throat,
I said JE resents the TT success,'
JE wants TT to fail!
you all told me that was speculative too !
sorry, but I invision REALITY based on what I see and based on the actions of others!
hanie stinks and JE would rather put hanie on the field than see OS go out there and embarrase himself and john?
WTF should I speculate about that?
can OS mkae that huge leap from worse than hanie to our broncos bright shiny future?
now we are talking speculation !

[MOtorboat]

DAMM ClouDS!

[NightTerror218]

what is speculative?
that JE called BO our FUTURE?
tha HANIE will play before BO does?
you think saying hanie stinks is speculative?
you think that since JE has proclaimed BO as our future, that wont stop the broncos from having a look at another QB down the rode?
what is speculative?
when I watched JE reluctantly applaud the on the field success of TEBOW, whilke trying to clear the VOMIT from his throat,
I said JE resents the TT success,'
JE wants TT to fail!
you all told me that was speculative too !
sorry, but I invision REALITY based on what I see and based on the actions of others!
hanie stinks and JE would rather put hanie on the field than see OS go out there and embarrase himself and john?
WTF should I speculate about that?
can OS mkae that huge leap from worse than hanie to our broncos bright shiny future?
now we are talking speculation !

Man Oz has it made. He will get paid million to never step on the field because of Elway fears of looking bad. So what happens when Manning goes down or retires? We stick with haine?

[Chef Zambini]

The best parts about Zam's tirades are when people point out specific inaccuracies (in this case the "no third string QBs have ever been good" wonk) and several days later he goes right back to it...

Wait, didn't you call US the ostriches?this is exactly why you are sucj a turd sometinmes MO ! I NEVER said anything like
" no third string QB was ever any good"
and you know it! you cant have an honest discussion like J-steve and others, you have to make shit up ! I resnt you LYING about what I posted ! I will always fight when you deliberatly misrepresent me, and then all these threads turn to shit because of YOU ! grow up, debate like a man ! stop with the lies ! try to be better that !
are you so pathetic that when yopu cant win an arguement you have to resort to lying?
thats pathetic! do you want everyone to think you are pathetic?
still weaiting on your answer on what OTHER QB drafted in the SECOND round, was listed as his new teams #3 QB!
still waiting, give us an answer, not a LIE !

[Chef Zambini]

Man Oz has it made. He will get paid million to never step on the field because of Elway fears of looking bad. So what happens when Manning goes down or retires? We stick with haine?aPP apparently!
Hanie is listed as the #2
he goes in if PM goers down.
at least for this year.
JE does NOT want BO to see the field this year unless its from behind a clip-board! sorry excuse for a second round pick QB, fnot good enough to even benefit from real game action?
the same was true of TEBOW !
the siimilarities of their rookie incompetence and "red-shirt" treatment are horrifyingly similar! you are lying to yourseves if you dont see the parralels !
lying to yourself/ raionalization/ justification/ refusing to see the reality !

[NightTerror218]

aPP apparently!
Hanie is listed as the #2
he goes in if PM goers down.
at least for this year.
JE does NOT want BO to see the field this year unless its from behind a clip-board! sorry excuse for a second round pick QB, fnot good enough to even benefit from real game action?
the same was true of TEBOW !
the siimilarities of their rookie incompetence and "red-shirt" treatment are horrifyingly similar! you are lying to yourseves if you dont see the parralels !
lying to yourself/ raionalization/ justification/ refusing to see the reality !

Oz will see the field in any blowout game in the 4th quarter.....he is going to be eased in.

[MOtorboat]

this is exactly why you are sucj a turd sometinmes MO ! I NEVER said anything like
" no third string QB was ever any good"
and you know it! you cant have an honest discussion like J-steve and others, you have to make shit up ! I resnt you LYING about what I posted ! I will always fight when you deliberatly misrepresent me, and then all these threads turn to shit because of YOU ! grow up, debate like a man ! stop with the lies ! try to be better that !
are you so pathetic that when yopu cant win an arguement you have to resort to lying?
thats pathetic! do you want everyone to think you are pathetic?
still weaiting on your answer on what OTHER QB drafted in the SECOND round, was listed as his new teams #3 QB!
still waiting, give us an answer, not a LIE !

Brett Favre, for like the eighth time.

Go suck an egg.

[Chef Zambini]

This is just drivel at best. Rodgers was on the bench for 3 years. Guess what, do they consider it a wasted pick since they didn't draft another QB?? Rodgers didn't "push" Favre out the door until the 1st round pick had been around for a while. How DARE GB waste that pick, and how DARE them not consider another QB in allll those years they had Favre and Rodgers on the bench!!!

Of course Denver won't draft another QB. Why would they? Why would they need to? Whats the point? Hopefully we'll have good enough records (which is the point anyway) to not have HIGH 1st round picks, anyway. You absolutely are making zero sense.
noce FAILED attempt! when was rogers not the #2 guy?
what game was rogers not the next in line?
he didnt play because favre never came out !
hello he holds the record for consecutive starts in the entire NFL history!
and thats for ALL players!
are you really trying to help ypour arguement by trying to say ROGERS did NOT push favre out the door?
really?
wow, huge hit to your credibility there champ !
were you trapped in a coal mine when that all went downwhen brock pushes a healthy manning to the bench,
it would be reasonable to compare brock to rogers(is circumstances only)
until then you sound like a fool !
we can all hope that PM never misses a start in the next 3 years!
at this point, it wouild be more plausable and sensable to compare manning to favre!
that would be a foundation for a successful arguement !
when was ROGERS ever worse than hanie?
because right now OS is worse than hanie!
and thats john elways opinuion !

[Chef Zambini]

Brett Favre, for like the eighth time.

Go suck an egg.

what about brett favre?
was he drafyted in the second round?
was he listed as the #3 QB?
did I miss something?
is that egg hard boiled or raw?

[Mike]

what is speculative?
that JE called BO our FUTURE?
tha HANIE will play before BO does?
you think saying hanie stinks is speculative?
you think that since JE has proclaimed BO as our future, that wont stop the broncos from having a look at another QB down the rode?
what is speculative?
when I watched JE reluctantly applaud the on the field success of TEBOW, whilke trying to clear the VOMIT from his throat,
I said JE resents the TT success,'
JE wants TT to fail!
you all told me that was speculative too !
sorry, but I invision REALITY based on what I see and based on the actions of others!
hanie stinks and JE would rather put hanie on the field than see OS go out there and embarrase himself and john?
WTF should I speculate about that?
can OS mkae that huge leap from worse than hanie to our broncos bright shiny future?
now we are talking speculation !

It is speculative because you don't know what the FO is thinking. You don't know why they kept Hanie and how it relates to what they think of Oz. I didn't like the pick either, but you are putting your hate before logic.

The simple answer is that they want to groom Oz and are giving him time to learn/grow/develop, and they want to have a veteran on the roster in case something happens with Manning so they don't have to toss Oz in the fire. And so what if Hanie is better right now? Right now (4 preseason games) isn't anything to base anything around. Anyone who does that is foolish.

[Chef Zambini]

I'm not saying he wasn't overdrafted, l wouldn't have taken a QB that high. I am saying that it's not an issue, the Broncos may actually look at his spot on the depth chart as a good thing.

As far as this being a failed pick, I look at it the same way Manning explained his decision to sign with Denver when he said it's up to him to make it the right decision. It's the same thing with this pick, it's up to Osweiler and the Broncos to make this pick the right decision.

The Broncos didn't think he'd be there with their 3rd round pick and it's not like they took an option QB with massive developmental issues with a 1st round pick. The second round is not too high to take a project and Osweiler certainly appears to have the physical skills to develope. It's not hard to see why Elway was "fixated" on drafting this project.......its an issue because now it appears JE is going to defend his selection and make continued bad decisions to justify it and save himself embarassment!
he will NOT be considering ANYONE else for the job, now that he has proclaimed BO as the heir apparent !

I never called brock a failure or a bust.
He is a project, an over drafted project who right now is worse than HANIE who right now is incapable of benefitting from real game action, he is so bad! but in 3 yearshe will be the leader of our broncos?
the same people who are calling him the next aaron rogers are calling me speculative?
please !
I have called brock a personal fixation, elwayshand picked fixation! and i am dissapointed that nobody at DV weas able to say"wait a minute john, lets think this thru".

[Chef Zambini]

so favre was drafted in the second round, just like OS
and aaron rogers sat on the bench for 3 years
juys like we HOPE for os,
so thast makes OS just like favre and rogers?
right, and these same people call me speculative?
I pray that BO is either the next rogers or favre, but for now he is worse than hanie, who sucks !
you can however feel justified in comparing me to jerry glamville !

[Chef Zambini]

Oz will see the field in any blowout game in the 4th quarter.....he is going to be eased in.thats speculation on your part. os is listed as the #3 he has not played a single meaningful down with the #1 team, whay would you speculate that he would leap frog hanie who has played as the #2, has played significant time with the #1 s and is listed on our depth chart to start the season as our 32 QB! ?
this is not some camp ploy depth chart this is the broncos plan of action ! no manning, we get hanie.
Os will not be seeing the field! a guy who needs experience is noit going to be getting any.
but people arounfd here feel more comfortable calling it "red-shirting' instead of "hiding"
mrtgaGE VS SACRIFICE, SAME PATHETIC OBSTANANCE !

[MOtorboat]

Zam.

Spamming threads since 1883.

[Ravage!!!]

he's like a whipped dog. Figures attention, even when getting beat upside the head, is better than no attention at all.

[jhildebrand]

not failed WASTED !

No difference to me. We won't know if the pick is wasted until we know. Truth be told the same things you are arguing about Os right now could have, and were, applied to Tebow. The reality is we haven't seen Os in a live regular season game. Until then I wouldn't read much into things.

We don't know enough about Os. Period. Just like Tebow, I want to see the kid get some reps with the #1's and 2's in practice. A good amount. But this situation is different because we have Manning. You can't do that. Not with the window available. Don't get me wrong, I didn't and don't like the Os pick. But if you are going to draft on up side and potential and raw skills you do it precisely as Elway has. Look at Reid and Philly. He drafts QB's even though he has bonafide starters. How has that worked for them?



and now that OS is the proclaimed heir apparent, our broncos will NOT allow themselves to even consider another over the next 3 years !
I don't buy that. That's reading into the future when we have no clue what will happen. Os is a 2nd round pick in an owner friendly CBA when it comes to draft choices. Nothing says Elway wouldn't take a Landry Jones or Matt Barkley if they fell like a Rodgers/Locker. Elway knows the deal-it is a QB league and as such you can't have too many.



did you say aaron rogers?
whern was he ever listed as the teams #3 QB?

Does it really matter when they are behind a guy who is still considered in the prime of their career? :confused: It may be the end but it is still prime. You have to capitalize on that.


aaron rogers pushed bret favreout the door before he was done, before he was ready to go !

This is a little bit of revisionist history! Ted Thompson pushed Brett out the door. Go back and watch all the NFLN coverage. Brett wanted to compete. Thompson wanted "his guy." Rodgers went 8-8 even after sitting behind a first ballot HOF.



when brock osweiler pushes a healthy peyton manning to the bench, I will shut up! til then, this is an albatrose around the neck of my beloved john elway !
sorry JE, this was not a smart football decision, and now you are acting like JMCD trying to hide it !

Im not trying to hie anything. Again, I don't like this pick but I understand it. Low risk high reward. The albatross around Elway's neck is Manning's. That is the albatross if you are going to argue one.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't see how Manning can be considered an Albatross. WHo in their right might could blame Elway for hiring Manning?

[Mike]

I don't see how Manning can be considered an Albatross. WHo in their right might could blame Elway for hiring Manning?

I blame Elway for making the Broncos a legititmate contender again. Damn him.

[jhildebrand]

I don't see how Manning can be considered an Albatross. WHo in their right might could blame Elway for hiring Manning?

The argument I was making was Os can't be an albatross. He is a second round pick who has a team friendly contract. Manning on the other hand has a much larger contract, a risk (if you buy it (I don't) in his neck, and finally there would be a very loud contingent if this team failed to make the playoffs this season with Manning after having made it with such a "terrible" QB.

I don't get why we are so concerned about Os? I don't like the pick but the truth is this season, next, and possibly 3 years from now it wont matter.

Plan A, remember!

[silkamilkamonico]

this is not some camp ploy depth chart this is the broncos plan of action ! no manning, we get hanie.
Os will not be seeing the field! a guy who needs experience is noit going to be getting any.
but people arounfd here feel more comfortable calling it "red-shirting' instead of "hiding"
mrtgaGE VS SACRIFICE, SAME PATHETIC OBSTANANCE !


You were stating this exact garbage when Tebow was listed as the #3 QB behind Brady Quinn last year. Was he really the #3? Were they lying then, or was that their "plan of action"?

[NightTerror218]

thats speculation on your part. os is listed as the #3 he has not played a single meaningful down with the #1 team, whay would you speculate that he would leap frog hanie who has played as the #2, has played significant time with the #1 s and is listed on our depth chart to start the season as our 32 QB! ?
this is not some camp ploy depth chart this is the broncos plan of action ! no manning, we get hanie.
Os will not be seeing the field! a guy who needs experience is noit going to be getting any.
but people arounfd here feel more comfortable calling it "red-shirting' instead of "hiding"
mrtgaGE VS SACRIFICE, SAME PATHETIC OBSTANANCE !

He is the franchise QB of the future. If we are blowing someone out of course manning will get pulled. And what exactly would putting in haine do? nothing, put in the rookie to get some live action experience is a whole lot more useful in the long run. In the grand scheme of things giving him little time here and there could mean a lot in his development which they are going to take slow....according to Elway.

[weazel]

I guess you could say that... but then again, Fox likes veterans and probably wants a guy who has seen a little more game action ready to go. Too bad it's Hanie lmao

[Chef Zambini]

You were stating this exact garbage when Tebow was listed as the #3 QB behind Brady Quinn last year. Was he really the #3? Were they lying then, or was that their "plan of action"?JE leap frogged tebow into the starting role to placate his idiot zealot followers and because he thought it would guarantee a LOSS and put him one step closer to his master plan of drafting LUCK ! JE always wanted luck! he thought playing TEBOW would be the best way to get there !
TT was put in place to FAIL !
he completed all of 2 passes against the dolphins, but still mamaged to win!
they gave the kid a standard gameplan for a real NFL QB in his game against the LIONS and he looked like a total incompetent ! Fox even said, we caNT PLAY HIM LIKE A REAL qb he woulkd be destined to FAIL in a standard NFL offense!
The MEDIA, especially steve young, called them out fror not designing a more appropriate offense for TT, and that why they developed an offense to give him a better chance at success.
JMCD tried to hide TT from the field , other than the occasional dog and pony show version of the wildcat.
JMCD knew after watching TT in camp he was NEVER going to be a real NFL QB !
JE, after watching BO in camp, now also feels that BO is not ready for the bright lights of a real NFL football game! can that change/ yes.
will it change?
not this year.
this year brock is apparently so pathetic he cant even benefir from field experience?
yet in 3 years he is suppose to be the new leader of our broncos?
a franchise QB?
in 3 years, yet this year he is worse than hanie and cant even benefit from experience?
all the evaluators say he is a raw talent, with potential, "lacking experience'
so what is JE going to deny him this year?
thats right, experience !
red shirt resriction for a league with no red shirt advantage?
but dont call it "hiding"

and dont you dare use a phraSE LIKE mortgaged , even though JE himself called it a SACRIFICED PRESENT for the future !

[Ravage!!!]

whip.. whip... whip.....

[Chef Zambini]

He is the franchise QB of the future. If we are blowing someone out of course manning will get pulled. And what exactly would putting in haine do? nothing, put in the rookie to get some live action experience is a whole lot more useful in the long run. In the grand scheme of things giving him little time here and there could mean a lot in his development which they are going to take slow....according to Elway.wrong.
according to elway and his official start of the season, NOT SOME BS TRAINING CAMP depth chart, HANIE, not BROCKO is the one that is going to go into the game when manning goes out.
to say otherwise IS speculating.

[Chef Zambini]

The argument I was making was Os can't be an albatross. He is a second round pick who has a team friendly contract. Manning on the other hand has a much larger contract, a risk (if you buy it (I don't) in his neck, and finally there would be a very loud contingent if this team failed to make the playoffs this season with Manning after having made it with such a "terrible" QB.

I don't get why we are so concerned about Os? I don't like the pick but the truth is this season, next, and possibly 3 years from now it wont matter.

Plan A, remember!
yes we have a plan A
my concern is our poor excuse for a plam B ! ONE THAT APASRENTLY je is locked into and now too stubborn to admit a mistake!
going to stick with the BO plan, even if he would embarass himself in a real game.
gonna ighnore ANy other QB options over the next 3 years also because we already got our guy in this years second round and have a ganeplan already in place!
ALBATROS is exactly the right analogy !

[MOtorboat]

yes we have a plan A
my concern is our poor excuse for a plam B ! ONE THAT APASRENTLY je is locked into and now too stubborn to admit a mistake!
going to stick with the BO plan, even if he would embarass himself in a real game.
gonna ighnore ANy other QB options over the next 3 years also because we already got our guy in this years second round and have a ganeplan already in place!
ALBATROS is exactly the right analogy !

Literally five hours later, you're still going?

[jhildebrand]

yes we have a plan A

Glad we agree there. Moving on...



my concern is our poor excuse for a plam B ! ONE THAT APASRENTLY je is locked into and now too stubborn to admit a mistake!
You do realize this is the McD/Tebow argument in reverse...right!? :confused: People wanted McD to admit Tebow was a failure because of Tebow, an admitted project, simply because he didn't beat out Orton. Tebow was deemed a failure, an argument I fought, prior to seeing sustained game time on the field in games that counted. He has a winning record.

Why would JE call Os a mistake at this point? :confused: We have seen next to nothing of the kid! Like Tebow he is an admitted project drafted on upside. I wanted Cousins or Foles if this team wasn't going to get Weeden or Russell. But I understand the Os pick.



going to stick with the BO plan, even if he would embarass himself in a real game.

Dude, Os has been a pro for like 5 minutes. Of course he is raw. They said he was. Cutler didn't beat out Plummer. It happens. It takes time.



gonna ighnore ANy other QB options over the next 3 years also because we already got our guy in this years second round and have a ganeplan already in place!
ALBATROS is exactly the right analogy !

You have no way of knowing what JE and company MAY or MAY NOT do in the future. Jake Locker was going to be a #1 or #2 overall drafted QB until he went back to school. Anything can happen. The albatross analogy is ridiculous. An albatross "somthing that greatly hinders accomplishment." How exactly is Os going to hinder Manning and Company from winning a championship? :confused: Let me help, he isn't!

If the Chargers, the friggin Chargers mind you, can draft Drew Brees in the 2nd and still turn around and draft Rivers and jettison Brees, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. This league has plenty of QB's drafted in the 2nd who were later replaced. I am honestly puzzled as to why you geniunely believe this team is locked in with Os forevermore. If JE has shown anything, he has shown he is willing to make a move if it makes the team better Os would be no exception to that!

[Ravage!!!]

Good God.... if Os isn't better than what we saw of Tebow, then it truly was a major failure.

However.... I absolutely can't stop rolling my eyes at the "je can't admit it was a mistake." What was a mistake? We haven't played a single game, OS hasn't completed a single year in the NFL, and zim zam thinks there is some kind of "mistake to admit" to. I do apologize to "The Truth." I thought he was the biggest maroon on the board. I'm quickly reminded otherwise.

[Chef Zambini]

I compare os to an albatros because he precludes the broncos from aking advantage of ANY other Qb opportunities while PM is still here and while os is still DECLARED the heir apparent even though he has done NOTHING to show he has earned it, other than being drafted and proclaimed!
JE has hitched his wagon to OS, he is already getting defensive about the pick ! so much so, he is now AFRAID to lehim take the field and get any experience!
I do appreciate the manner in which you depate my assertions/ opinions.
thanks for acting like an adult. I appreciate your perspective and your demeanor, i just dont share your opinion or lack of concern.
If right now, OS aint good enough to unseat hanie, who i think absolutly stinks, we have a big problem! and it is in fact, JEs commitment to BO that makes it such a big problem for our future, and hopefully not our present !

[jhildebrand]

I compare os to an albatros because he precludes the broncos from aking advantage of ANY other Qb opportunities while PM is still here and while os is still DECLARED the heir apparent even though he has done NOTHING to show he has earned it, other than being drafted and proclaimed!



Let's just end this silly argument right now. If Os is the "heir apparent" why the hell is he listed as the 3rd string QB? :confused: I don't think any heir apparent is a 3rd stringer. Clearly NOTHING is being handed to the kid!


EDIT: You also insist they wont take advantage of any other QB scenarios. What scenario has popped up that they could enter into? I know they had interest in Matt Moore. If they were so in LOVE with Hanie, they would have him on more than a one year deal. If Os was the heir, he would be #2 no ifs ands or buts about it. They gave him a shot, as I said above, and decided to carry an extra roster spot by keeping Hanie. If that doesn't say something about what they think of Os RIGHT NOW, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Chef Zambini]

Good God.... if Os isn't better than what we saw of Tebow, then it truly was a major failure.

However.... I absolutely can't stop rolling my eyes at the "je can't admit it was a mistake." What was a mistake? We haven't played a single game, OS hasn't completed a single year in the NFL, and zim zam thinks there is some kind of "mistake to admit" to. I do apologize to "The Truth." I thought he was the biggest maroon on the board. I'm quickly reminded otherwise.I have not asked JE or anyone to admit a mistake. my concern id that JE in defense of the os selection has proclaimed him "the future" he has admitted to "sacrificing the present for the future"
these are his EXACT words! having said all this, and outlining his JUSTIFICATION for the selection, JE is now compelled to stand by it, defend it and see it thru !
he will IGNORE other QB oportunities along the way because, "we already have our future on the roster"
this future, is currently WORSE than HANIE !
worse than hanie, chew on that for a while and what it implies !
Now, JE has proclaimed that hanie, not BO will step in for manning.
How can you not see the similarities to TEBOW who was also held out of games when the guy that selected him in the draft realized after watching him in camp, just how incompetent he was?
be patient, it does not matter?
fine, lets start the list of QBs that JE will ignore bewteen now and whenever OS becomes the starting bronco QBs!
a list of all the FA QBs and drafted QBs that JE could have considered, but chose NOT to becuase he has already pushed all his chips to the center of the table on his osweiler bet!
menwhile perhaps you can explain to me why is it than when BO's biggest fans said of him BEFORE the draft, he just lacks experience", yet that experience is exactly what JE is going to deny him this year by making him the #3 QB !

[jhildebrand]

I have not asked JE or anyone to admit a mistake!

You sure about that? :confused:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/430263-Does-the-fact-that-Osweiler-failed-to-win-the-backup-job-make-him-a-failed-pick?p=1709401#post1709401


too stubborn to admit a mistake! Sounds like you want him to admit a mistake.

[NightTerror218]

Boobs

[Chef Zambini]

Let's just end this silly argument right now. If Os is the "heir apparent" why the hell is he listed as the 3rd string QB? :confused: I don't think any heir apparent is a 3rd stringer. Clearly NOTHING is being handed to the kid!


EDIT: You also insist they wont take advantage of any other QB scenarios. What scenario has popped up that they could enter into? I know they had interest in Matt Moore. If they were so in LOVE with Hanie, they would have him on more than a one year deal. If Os was the heir, he would be #2 no ifs ands or buts about it. They gave him a shot, as I said above, and decided to carry an extra roster spot by keeping Hanie. If that doesn't say something about what they think of Os RIGHT NOW, then I don't know what to tell you.
JE called him the future! je admitted in an interview that he indeed sacrificed the present for the FUTURE !
when JE waqs asked is brock osweiler the heir apparent, he said, "you dont make a commitment of youyr second pick in the draft, if you dont believe he can be your future"
Just like with jmcd and TT, JE has painted himself into a corner !
he justified the selection by proclaiming BO the "FUTURE"
now I see him doing lame things, just like JMCD to hide from his commitment and pray for a metamorphosis from brock. but thats NOT what concerns me the most ! what concerns me the most is JE defensive posturing that will preclude him from considering any other QB !
so Os and JE are joined at the hip.
he hangs like an albatros around Jes neck.
Maybe he can undergo a metamorphosis and become aaron rogers and brett favre all rolled into one. again, this is the guy who is currently worse than HANIE, a guy who apparently cant benefit from real game action.

[NightTerror218]

JE called him the future! je admitted in an interview that he indeed sacrificed the present for the FUTURE !
when JE waqs asked is brock osweiler the heir apparent, he said, "you dont make a commitment of youyr second pick in the draft, if you dont believe he can be your future"
Just like with jmcd and TT, JE has painted himself into a corner !
he justified the selection by proclaiming BO the "FUTURE"
now I see him doing lame things, just like JMCD to hide from his commitment and pray for a metamorphosis from brock. but thats NOT what concerns me the most ! what concerns me the most is JE defensive posturing that will preclude him from considering any other QB !
so Os and JE are joined at the hip.
he hangs like an albatros around Jes neck.
Maybe he can undergo a metamorphosis and become aaron rogers and brett favre all rolled into one. again, this is the guy who is currently worse than HANIE, a guy who apparently cant benefit from real game action.


no you assume but not what could actually happen. Your last line was an assumption. The only fact is that the #2 QB is a veteran with real game experience.

[Chef Zambini]

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Broncos select Brock Osweiler as heir apparent to Manning - The ...


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Apr 28, 2012 – Just one month after the Broncos gave Peyton Manning a red-carpet welcome, they came up with his exit strategy. Even for the greats, job ...









Broncos sign Brock Osweiler, Ronnie Hillman to complete rookie ...


www.denverpost.com › Sports › Broncos


Jul 24, 2012 – Brock Osweiler, a second-round draft pick, received a four-year ... Still, the Broncos believe Osweiler can become Manning's heir apparent ...









Meet the Denver Broncos Eventual Heir Apparent to Peyton - K99


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Apr 28, 2012 – With the 57th overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft the Denver Broncos selected who? A quarterback? After they just spent $80 million on one?









Meet the Denver Broncos Eventual Heir Apparent to Peyton - K99


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Brock Osweiler/ Facebook 99. ... brock. Send to a friend!Share on facebook!Share on twitter! Brock Osweiler/ Facebook. Listen Live ...









Elway Couldn't Pass On Manning's Heir Apparent « CBS Denver


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May 15, 2012 – (AP) – John Elway says he just couldn't pass on Peyton Manning's heir apparent, even though he hopes Brock Osweiler will be holding a ...

[jhildebrand]

You know there is a difference between the press calling him the heir apparent and JE actually saying it...right? :confused:

[Chef Zambini]

Osweiler is just 21 and a one-year starter at Arizona State, where John Elway's son Jack played quarterback briefly as a freshman.

"Jack is one of my best friends," Osweiler said.
this was part of the problem, part of the myopic fixation.
now JE is goiung out of his way to justify it !



Read more: Broncos select Brock Osweiler as heir apparent to Manning - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20500934/Broncos-select-Brock-Osweiler-as-heir-apparent-to-Manning#ixzz25jiS57tf
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[Chef Zambini]

You know there is a difference between the press calling him the heir apparent and JE actually saying it...right? :confused:he was asked, in an interview, "is brock the heir apparent". JE did not use those words but he did say, " you dont make that kind of commitment in the draft if the guy is not your future"
I am paraphrasing, I dont have the exact quote, but it was JE justifying brocks second round pick and specificly the use of our second pick over-all when JE called brock osweiler "our future".
and since then JEs actions and words have just further indemnified him to the selection!
does anyone here actually think that JE will enterain other QB prospects NEXT year?
anyone?

[Simple Jaded]

I can't believe so many people think Osweiler being 3rd string actually means something.

What a difference a year makes, last year word gets out that Tebow is the 4th best QB in camp and nobody wanted to believe it, this year the 2nd round pick starts out 3rd and not only do we believe it but it's proof positive that it's a wasted pick.

Where are the cries that Elway and Fox are trying to sabotage Osweiler's career? I demand a recount! Shananigans.......

[jhildebrand]

I can't believe so many people think Osweiler being 3rd string actually means something.

What a difference a year makes, last year word gets out that Tebow is the 4th best QB in camp and nobody wanted to believe it, this year the 2nd round pick starts out 3rd and not only do we believe it but it's proof positive that it's a wasted pick.

Where are the cries that Elway and Fox are trying to sabotage Osweiler's career? I demand a recount! Shananigans.......

I think the phrase in Denver actually is Shanahanigans. :D

[MOtorboat]

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Broncos select Brock Osweiler as heir apparent to Manning - The ...


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Apr 28, 2012 – Just one month after the Broncos gave Peyton Manning a red-carpet welcome, they came up with his exit strategy. Even for the greats, job ...









Broncos sign Brock Osweiler, Ronnie Hillman to complete rookie ...


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Jul 24, 2012 – Brock Osweiler, a second-round draft pick, received a four-year ... Still, the Broncos believe Osweiler can become Manning's heir apparent ...









Meet the Denver Broncos Eventual Heir Apparent to Peyton - K99


k99.com/meet-the-denver-broncos-eventual-heir-apparent-to-peyton...


Apr 28, 2012 – With the 57th overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft the Denver Broncos selected who? A quarterback? After they just spent $80 million on one?









Meet the Denver Broncos Eventual Heir Apparent to Peyton - K99


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Brock Osweiler/ Facebook 99. ... brock. Send to a friend!Share on facebook!Share on twitter! Brock Osweiler/ Facebook. Listen Live ...









Elway Couldn't Pass On Manning's Heir Apparent « CBS Denver


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May 15, 2012 – (AP) – John Elway says he just couldn't pass on Peyton Manning's heir apparent, even though he hopes Brock Osweiler will be holding a ...

This post is awesome on so many levels.

[jhildebrand]

does anyone here actually think that JE will enterain other QB prospects NEXT year?
anyone?

I wouldn't put it past him if the situation were right. After all, the guy, one game short of the AFCCG, did exactly that. It is just too hard to say because we haven't played one snap of the 12/13 season. ANYTHING can and does happen with this league.

[Simple Jaded]

I hope Elway takes another QB in the 2nd round next year too, just for shits and grins.......

[Chef Zambini]

no you assume but not what could actually happen. Your last line was an assumption. The only fact is that the #2 QB is a veteran with real game experience.its not my assumption. its not my decision. JE has chosen to hide BO from the lighs! the BRONCOS have put hanie in front of brock not me!
because he is a vet?
brady quinn is a vet
jmarcus russel is a vet
what about all the vet free agents?
and not just this year, nex year too !
a vet without experience is still a rookie !
so next year os will still be a rookie, a guy who has NEVER played in a real NFL game.
my problem is not so much with os, its JEs apparent inability to look beyond os.
not in the draft
not this year, and not for the rest of brocks career.
JE has hitched his wagon to this kid and with every interview and decision, like red shirting him,
he is destroying any hope of an exit strategy.

[MOtorboat]

When you say Elway is "hiding" Osweiler, that is a giant assumption, at best.

[Simple Jaded]

its not my assumption. its not my decision. JE has chosen to hide BO from the lighs! the BRONCOS have put hanie in front of brock not me!
because he is a vet?
brady quinn is a vet
jmarcus russel is a vet
what about all the vet free agents?
and not just this year, nex year too !
a vet without experience is still a rookie !
so next year os will still be a rookie, a guy who has NEVER played in a real NFL game.
my problem is not so much with os, its JEs apparent inability to look beyond os.
not in the draft
not this year, and not for the rest of brocks career.
JE has hitched his wagon to this kid and with every interview and decision, like red shirting him,
he is destroying any hope of an exit strategy.Exit strategy for what, exactly?.......

[Chef Zambini]

Exit strategy for what, exactly?.......exit strategy for os as the heir apparent.

[Simple Jaded]

exit strategy for os as the heir apparent.

He is the heir apparent, why would they want an exit strategy?.......

[Chef Zambini]

just in case he is the next jmarcus russel
or the next brady quinn, or
ryan leaf
or matt lienert
or vince young
or any other huge number of high hope QBs that were drafted to be the heir apparant,
but only turned out to be an apparant error.
if OS cant justify gametime ahead of hanie,
I think he has a better chance of being an apparant error.

[Simple Jaded]

just in case he is the next jmarcus russel
or the next brady quinn, or
ryan leaf
or matt lienert
or vince young
or any other huge number of high hope QBs that were drafted to be the heir apparant,
but only turned out to be an apparant error.
if OS cant justify gametime ahead of hanie,
I think he has a better chance of being an apparant error.

Forget your argument for a moment and ask yourself if he looked like an apparent error. He looked fine to me, especially considering his lack of experince, and I didn't even want them to draft a QB. Judge his skillset and not his place on the totem pole.......

[Chef Zambini]

I watched the local cardinals WASTE 10 years trying to make another ASU QB something he was not.
I dont want my broncos to suffer the same ill fate.
the cards REFUSED to consider an exit strategy, the more the fans complained the higher they built their fenses.

[Chef Zambini]

Forget your argument for a moment and ask yourself if he looked like an apparent error. He looked fine to me, and I didn't even want them to draft a QB. Judge his skillset and not his place on the totem pole.......
he, os, looks ok. he does NOT look like someone that would preclude me from considering other candidates.
as I said before nobody is EVER going to say,
"dang, we missed our chance at brock osweiler"
and he certainly doesnt make me think we should forsake the pursduit of alternatives in the future; the next 3 years !!

[Chef Zambini]

... and he did NOT play against a #1 defense, maybe noit even the second teams defense !

[Simple Jaded]

he, os, looks ok. he does NOT look like someone that would preclude me from considering other candidates.
as I said before nobody is EVER going to say,
"dang, we missed our chance at brock osweiler"
and he certainly doesnt make me think we should forsake the pursduit of alternatives in the future; the next 3 years !!Oh but somebody is gonna stand up and say "dang, we missed out on our chance at (fill in the blank)" instead? Who might that be, then?.......

[MOtorboat]

he, os, looks ok. he does NOT look like someone that would preclude me from considering other candidates.
as I said before nobody is EVER going to say,
"dang, we missed our chance at brock osweiler"
and he certainly doesnt make me think we should forsake the pursduit of alternatives in the future; the next 3 years !!

Assumption junction.

:elefant:

[jhildebrand]

Oh but somebody is gonna stand up and say "dang, we missed out on our chance at (fill in the blank)" instead? Who might that be, then?.......

Last year it was Dalton for me. I was high on Dalton early on and through the draft. This year I liked Cousins, Russell, and Foles before Os.

[Chef Zambini]

Oh but somebody is gonna stand up and say "dang, we missed out on our chance at (fill in the blank)" instead? Who might that be, then?.......heck if I know, but those whos could be as many as 25-30 candidates, versus our brock who has the job locked down.
I just have a feeling that maybe one or even dare i say it TWO of those othewr 20PLUS possibiliteis might turn out better than the guy that isnt as good as hanie and isnt good enough to enter a real game.
just maybe.

[hotcarl]

is this a "tned take? because those are awesome. sit ubu sit

[BroncoJoe]

Not so fast, guys:


For the Broncos, Caleb Hanie, who has worked as the No. 3 quarterback this week, and linebacker Keith Brooking fit the profile. Hanie is in his fifth season, Brooking his 14th.

Read more: Jake Plummer, who now lives in Boulder, visits with Denver Broncos - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21494279/jake-plummer-who-now-lives-boulder-visits-denver#ixzz25tFpWfky
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[Chef Zambini]

Potential roster moves. NFL teams often take advantage of a provision in the collective bargaining agreement just before the season opener to save a little guaranteed salary. By league rules, all vested players ( players with four or more seasons accrued in the league) on the roster for the regular-season opener have their base salaries guaranteed.

So, at times, teams will release one or more of those veteran players who are not expected to play in the game Sunday, and then re-sign them Monday

Blog: First-and-Orange

The Denver Post's NFL reporters post analysis, notes and more on this blog focussing on the Denver Broncos.
to lift the guarantee.

For the Broncos, Caleb Hanie, who has worked as the No. 3 quarterback this week, and linebacker Keith Brooking fit the profile. Hanie is in his fifth season



Read more: Jake Plummer, who now lives in Boulder, visits with Denver Broncos - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21494279/jake-plummer-who-now-lives-boulder-visits-denver#ixzz25tUT0500
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse great find joe, this is interesting news, but may be little more than a financial maneuver.
when OS takes the field , I will consider it legit, we both hope that never happens this year or next !

[MOtorboat]

lol

[Ravage!!!]

unbelievable

[Chef Zambini]

whats so unbelievable?
hanie sucks and if they can avoid paying him more money than he is worth, why not?
its n ot like ANY other team is going to claim him for their own and be forced to put him on their active rosyter ! even the cardinals would not want him !
so if the broncos do this, BO is the #2 and would see the field if PM cant !

[MOtorboat]

whats so unbelievable?
hanie sucks and if they can avoid paying him more money than he is worth, why not?
its n ot like ANY other team is going to claim him for their own and be forced to put him on their active rosyter ! even the cardinals would not want him !
so if the broncos do this, BO is the #2 and would see the field if PM cant !

Osweiler is taking second-string snaps. Your spamming this thread is now nearly obsolete, and you still can't accept it.

[chaoticmayhem]

Does it matter? You have a choice between a rookie QB or a 5 year veteran with a lackluster career. If Manning goes down..the Broncos are screwed either way. Brock is going to be the future starter though when Manning is done.

[Chef Zambini]

hje should be! he should have been from the second PS game of the season because hanie is close to worthless !
about as worthless as all the 'justification" as to why BO was third string !
I said all along he should be #2 anything else is a condemnation of his selection! I said all along that if he could not benefit from real game action he is therefore a poor cndidate for heir apparant! Nothing about my opinion has changed, and other than a financial maneuver, nothing about the status quo has really changed !
lets see where hanie ends up after his one day cut, ok?
does the red shirt come off?
lets wait and see.

[MOtorboat]

he should be #2 anything else is a condemnation of his selection!

Which is stupid.

Stop spamming. You're wrong.

[Chef Zambini]

so on tuesday, if the broncos declare OS the #2 and hanie #3 you say that is stupid?

[MOtorboat]

so on tuesday, if the broncos declare OS the #2 and hanie #3 you say that is stupid?

What?

[Chef Zambini]

huh?

[Ravage!!!]

I said all along he should be #2 anything else is a condemnation of his selection!

That is what is unbelievable. Its a ridiculous thought, its been wrong from day 1 that you've said it, and its absurd that you continue to spout such ridiculousness. I get it. You think the Os pick was a bad pick. Its fine that you ahve that opinion. But the "facts" that you use to BACK this opinion, is absurd. Completely and totally absurd. This "we won't look for another QB now".... is probably the dumbest thing I've read on these message boards.

But you are welcome to your tin foil hat ideas, though.

[Chef Zambini]

so youn think that next year the broncos are going to draft a potential starting QB, or bring in a FA QB to compete for the role of back-up?
really?
is that what you think?

[MOtorboat]

so youn think that next year the broncos are going to draft a potential starting QB, or bring in a FA QB to compete for the role of back-up?
really?
is that what you think?

No. They probably won't. What's ridiculous is that you're actually worried about that.

[Ravage!!!]

so on tuesday, if the broncos declare OS the #2 and hanie #3 you say that is stupid?

what? How do you get this? Truly, its amazing.

[Ravage!!!]

so youn think that next year the broncos are going to draft a potential starting QB, or bring in a FA QB to compete for the role of back-up?
really?
is that what you think?

No. I think they absolutely will not. What doesn't make sense, is that you think ANY team would. What team wo uld look for a QB when they have Manning, and a mentored student to learn from him, already? Why would they? You think that just throwing the ball is the most important thing about a QB? How about learning how to study, how to read, how to practice at the pace of a game? THese things are invaluable to a young QB that we have the opportunity to provide OUR young QB. The fact, that you think we SHOULD... for some weird reason.... have left a slot open PURELy so that we MIGHT ahve the chance to look for a QB later, makes zero sense. Why would we leave a needed position open, so that we MIGHT have a guy that we POSSIBLY would want to draft.. .later??? How does that make a SINGLE ounce of sense to you? Why would I want the broncos to bring a FA in to "compete" for the back-up role? WHy would I want that? Why do we need that? You are SOOOO obsessed with such ridiculous ideas, that you can't see the forest through the trees.

[Jsteve01]

Please delete this thread immediately. Tia

[Simple Jaded]

Last year it was Dalton for me. I was high on Dalton early on and through the draft. This year I liked Cousins, Russell, and Foles before Os.

Why do you think Osweiler's will never reach or surpass those QB's? Cousins has a backup skillset, Russell's height will always be an issue and Foles has only the experience that Osweiler lacks.......

[NightTerror218]

Haine is released officially and OZ is #2.....

/thread