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View Full Version : What Have We Learned About This Team in the Preseason?



Ziggy
08-29-2012, 03:19 AM
Most of the starters are done for the preseason. All that's left is the game of backups. We're probably going to know very little more after that game than we do now. So what exactly do we know? This is my take.

Offense-
QB- Elway took a big gamble signing Peyton Manning to a huge contract. He is who John Elway thought he was. How nice is it to see open receivers actually get the ball? Manning has single handedly changed the expectations and level of performance around Dove Valley.

FB- Yes, we have a real fullback. Gronk has been doing a great job opening holes and eliminating linebackers from the play. I've been impressed with him.

RB- McGahee looks great. Despite not having the breakaway speed, he gets the most out of every carry. He still has the agility and vision to be an effective #1 back. Hillman will have to get fully healthy before we know what we have in him. Lance Ball is average and reliable. You know exactly what you're going to get out of him night in and night out. He'll never be more than a quality #3 back in the NFL. Knowshon fits the role of a 3rd and mid to long range back perfectly. He works well out in space, has good hands, and does an excellent job of picking up the blitz.

WR- Decker is obviously ahead of the curve with Manning. The chemistry between the two is undeniable. I'm going to be patient with DT. He's still learning how to run routes, and trying to get on the same page with Manning. The talent is there. Hopefully it will all come together at some time during the season. Stokely looks like he's 28 again. Still slow as molasses, still knows how to get open, and still has hands like glue. I have no idea who the 4th WR will be. Caldwell was a lock early on, but he's fallen by the wayside some in the preseason. This may be a position that the Broncos scour the waiver wire for at the end of the week. Willis has been hot and cold as well.

TE- Dreesen is solid. His blocking has been good, and he can catch the ball. Tamme has been a huge disappointment. He can't block and he hasn't been able to regin the ball in consistently. Manning won't keep throwing to a guy that he doesn't trust to hang on to the ball. Virgil Green is still a solid blocker and backup fullback. I expect him to make the cut, but this might be another position that the Broncos bolster through the waiver wire. It would be a contraversial move, but I'd love to see the Broncos go after Chris Cooley. He can block, he can get open, and he can catch the dang ball.

OL- This is where it gets messy. Clady looks like he's returning to form. Franklin looks like he's improving in pass blocking and has always been a beast against the run. Manny Ramirez has been a very pleasant surprise. He's been left to block one on one most of the preseason, and has more than held his own in pass blocking. If you pay close attention, you'll notice that the Broncos almost always use Beadles and Walton to double one pass rusher, while the other three lineman are left to handle thier men alone. Beadles and Walton are fine in pass protection as long as the other team is rushing only four. When they rush more, it gets ugly. Need an example? Watch the San Fran game. Mannings big hit came on a play where the Dline stunted and Beadles completely let his man come free through the middle. The play where Hanie was strip sacked? Beadles was left to block one on one on a stunt and was beaten like a drum again. Ramirez is clearly a better guard than Beadles. Don't be surprised to see him moved to LG when Kuper gets back on the field. Don't get me started on the backups. I don't think the Broncos have a single quality backup lineman outside of Manny Ramirez.




Defense-
Dline- This unit has been the biggest surprise of the preseason. There is talent, depth, and power in that Dline. How long has it been since we could say that? The Broncos starting Dline has been superb. Warren looks like he's back to form. He's eating up double teams and opening up opportunities for his linemates. Big Vick is big Vick again. He's been consistently pushing lineman back towards the QB and collapsing the pocket. He's solid against the run as well. Unrein is a quality backup. Wolfe is making an impact despite missing OTA's. He's in on just about every play with the starting defense, playing end on run downs and tackle on passing downs. Many considered Ayers a solid starter last season. This season he's a solid backup. Beal flashed early, but has faded some. He might be the odd man out here. Doom is back to his 2009 form. Is it just me or does he look quicker this year? Malik Jackson has made his mark in the preseason as well. His versatility on the line makes him even more valuable. I expect to see his role increase as the season goes on. When was the last time the Broncos had two promising rookie defensive lineman on the roster?

Linebackers-
Outside of Von Miller there's little to be happy about. Von looks great. I'd like to see him rushing the passer more and covering TE's and RB's less. Joe Mays is still the misguided missle. It's going to take a lot for this defense to cover up his mistakes. Wesley Woodyard is a 3rd down linebacker at best. He's not starter material. Our glimmer of hope here is Danny Trevathan. He seems to have a nose for the ball and can cover well. It's too early to tell if he's Wesley Woodyard 2, or a promising young every down linebacker. He was playing well before the injury, and I thought he had a chance to supplant Woodyard. I'd love to see Brooking get healthy and take over the MLB job. I'd rather have a slower, more instinctive MLB that will get to the right gap (albeit slower than most) and put himself in position to make a tackle, than a guy that takes himself out of most plays with missed tackles and wrong angles. His hammy may have done him in though. It's not hard to see why they are keeping DJ around. He may be a knucklehead off of the field, but he's still the 2nd best linebacker on this roster. This is another position that the Broncos may try to improve via the waiver wire, or even through trade.

Safety-
I'm liking the Mike Adams signing more and more every game. He doesn't do anything flashy. He just gets the job done and you can count on him to be in the right place. Rahim Moore is a big risk out there on the field. His athleticism doesn't seem to translate well in game action. He's still making mental errors that could cost this team games. Quinton Carter was hurt early on in camp and hasn't been able to get back on the field. Our ace in the hole may be Jim Leonhard. He's another solid vet that knows how to be in the right place at the right time. He actually might be the best safety on this roster. I'm hoping that he's healthy enough to play a lot in Thursday's game. He also might be our best punt returner outside of Eric Decker.

Cornerback-
Champ is still blanketing the other team's best receiver and playing at a pro bowl level. Tracy Porter is a huge upgrade over Goodman, and Chris Harris is picking up where he left off last season. The Broncos only weak spot here is the 4th corner. I'll take that. This unit has been massively upgraded in the offseason. Between the defensive line and the corners, we might just be able to overcome some of the linebacker woes.



Special Teams-
Our kickers are solid. Our return game needs a serious boost. I'd love to see the Broncos bring in a return guy and add some gusto to this phase of the game. For now though I'll settle for our returners holding onto the ball.

Overall I'm pleased. I didn't expect the Broncos to win the Super Bowl this season, and still don't. The depth is a major concern, but I do think that we can win the division, make some serious noise in the playoffs, and head into the offseason with just a few holes to fill to put us over the edge. I can't wait for the season to start.

sneakers
08-29-2012, 05:35 AM
lol old broncos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsknDhfj0eg&feature=player_detailpage#t=964s

sneakers
08-29-2012, 05:44 AM
also here:

from 1988 hahahah tony dorsett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xshpH1xwA&feature=player_detailpage#t=502s

sneakers
08-29-2012, 05:50 AM
Whatever happened to that squidkwon thompson guy who showed flashes of being a good return guy before he got hurt....is he still with the team?

Superchop 7
08-29-2012, 07:52 AM
Statistically speaking.....Leonhard was the best safety in the NFL against the pass last year. Very good writeup.....will be interested to see who they pursue on waivers.

OrangeHoof
08-29-2012, 08:33 AM
What became of Bolden as a 4th CB/return guy?

Jsteve01
08-29-2012, 08:51 AM
I like Bolden long term. Just needs to fully recover from a year off. he's extremely motivated and athletic. he was definitely a risk/reward type pick but you can afford those in the 4th round. I know Zam will like this but I wonder if Florence ends up as a our big nickel back/safety in a Braxton type transition to safety. I seem to remember Tyrone taking to that change pretty well.

Great write up Ziggy, I can't think of one thing I disagree with you about (which of course makes it great)

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 09:04 AM
Wish Denver would just 86 the FB position and get another target out wide for Manning. Don't need a FB they just get in the way.

Ravage!!!
08-29-2012, 09:27 AM
Wish Denver would just 86 the FB position and get another target out wide for Manning. Don't need a FB they just get in the way.

Thats what Barry Sanders said the first year Ross brought one in. Then Barry proceeded to run for his only 2000 yrd season, following that FB.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 09:37 AM
Thats what Barry Sanders said the first year Ross brought one in. Then Barry proceeded to run for his only 2000 yrd season, following that FB.

Was that the season that helped Barry get his only playoff win in a time when the game wasn't even passer friendly?

It's 2012.

Davii
08-29-2012, 09:42 AM
Wish Denver would just 86 the FB position and get another target out wide for Manning. Don't need a FB they just get in the way.

I respectfully disagree. When our run game is kicking it gives Manning more flexibility, and time, to do his thing. I think there was twice on Sunday we ran play action out of the I formation and both times we had wide open receivers. I could be wrong as I didn't review game tape, etc, but that's what I recall from seeing it live.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 09:46 AM
I respectfully disagree. When our run game is licking it gives Manning more flexibility, and time, to do his thing. I think there was twice on Sunday we ran play action out of the I formation and both times we had wide open receivers. I could be wrong as I didn't review game tape, etc, but that's what I recall from seeing it live.

I think it's ok to disagree. I do look at the offense like spread the field for Manning and let him work. I think he's too good and that is more beneficial than a FB. maybe in certain situations yes, but really, spread the field for Petyon m'fing Maning!

Ravage!!!
08-29-2012, 10:03 AM
Was that the season that helped Barry get his only playoff win in a time when the game wasn't even passer friendly?

It's 2012.

Passer friendly? The Lions didn't have much of a passing game despite people like Elway, Kelly, Favre, Marino and Young putting up GOOD passing numbers (friendly or not). The run game of Detroit didn't have a passer to keep people honest, and the FB proved to be a HUGE value despite Barry Sanders complaining about not wanting one.

I just think a FB in short situations and goalline (which is where he will be used the most)...is great. Not to mention, we had a HUGE benefit at FB when we were winning Super Bowls. Not only was it big blocking for Davis, but was a nice threat on passing downs out of the back-field as well.

Football wasn't that much different then as it is now.

TXBRONC
08-29-2012, 10:07 AM
I think the season be summed up just bit differently. The offense and the defense are looking solid enough to compete with teams they face this year. As far the depth is concerned I don't see it being the concern others do. Yes when they all been in there at the same time they've struggled but all that means to me is that you don't want 22 back up players to be on the field at the same. In fact there isn't a team in this League that would be comfortable starting that many reserve players and that's espcially true for the quarteraback position.

I'm not worried about Von covering tight ends and running backs in preseason. I would bet that at least in part it was to get him some work covering receivers but I can't picture him playing very much in coverage during the regular season.

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 10:27 AM
Whatever happened to that squidkwon thompson guy who showed flashes of being a good return guy before he got hurt....is he still with the team?

He's had his chances in camp to return kicks, but he hasn't shown a whole lot. I don't think he's talented enough at either corner or KR to keep on the roster.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 10:27 AM
Passer friendly? The Lions didn't have much of a passing game despite people like Elway, Kelly, Favre, Marino and Young putting up GOOD passing numbers (friendly or not). The run game of Detroit didn't have a passer to keep people honest, and the FB proved to be a HUGE value despite Barry Sanders complaining about not wanting one.

Again, Elway, Favre, Marino, Young played in an era where the rules made it harder to pass. When CB's were allowed to smother the WR's, the FB and run game played a huge role. It's 2012 and the rules are much different. Detroit was not a physical team last year. Lorenzo Neal would not have made a difference, he only would have made the passing game worse by taking field options away from Stafford, and they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

No use of FB's seems to work out for guys like Brady, Brees, and Manning in Indy. I wish they would just not use it in denver.

I
just think a FB in short situations and goalline (which is where he will be used the most)...is great. Not to mention, we had a HUGE benefit at FB when we were winning Super Bowls. Not only was it big blocking for Davis, but was a nice threat on passing downs out of the back-field as well.

Football wasn't that much different then as it is now.

Short yardage situatiosn are great. Use a TE or something. Don't waste a roster spot on a FB. OPen th field up for Peyton mf'ing Manning.

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 10:28 AM
What became of Bolden as a 4th CB/return guy?

Bolden will be the 4th or 5th corner, and he's been returning some kicks in the preseason. He's going to need some time to develop. I expect him to be one of the primary kickoff returners during the season.

chazoe60
08-29-2012, 10:32 AM
I completely agree with you about Ramirez.

The one guy who has completely shocked me this preseason and may be the most improved player on the roster is Mitch Unrein. I just thought he'd be roster filler but he has worked his way into the rotation and was even starting at points this preseason. He has gotten much better. In fact he's been getting doubled teamed quite a bit in games, whoda thunk?

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Again, Elway, Favre, Marino, Young played in an era where the rules made it harder to pass. When CB's were allowed to smother the WR's, the FB and run game played a huge role. It's 2012 and the rules are much different. Detroit was not a physical team last year. Lorenzo Neal would not have made a difference, he only would have made the passing game worse by taking field options away from Stafford, and they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

No use of FB's seems to work out for guys like Brady, Brees, and Manning in Indy. I wish they would just not use it in denver.

I

Short yardage situatiosn are great. Use a TE or something. Don't waste a roster spot on a FB. OPen th field up for Peyton mf'ing Manning.

If you want to talk about elite teams, 4 out of the last 5 super bowl wins are by teams that use the FB.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 11:16 AM
If you want to talk about elite teams, 4 out of the last 5 super bowl wins are by teams that use the FB.


Who were the FB's they used?

I am going to assume Giants used one correctly, even though I don't know who it is.

Ravage!!!
08-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Again, Elway, Favre, Marino, Young played in an era where the rules made it harder to pass. When CB's were allowed to smother the WR's, the FB and run game played a huge role. It's 2012 and the rules are much different. Detroit was not a physical team last year. Lorenzo Neal would not have made a difference, he only would have made the passing game worse by taking field options away from Stafford, and they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

No use of FB's seems to work out for guys like Brady, Brees, and Manning in Indy. I wish they would just not use it in denver.

I

Short yardage situatiosn are great. Use a TE or something. Don't waste a roster spot on a FB. OPen th field up for Peyton mf'ing Manning.

I just don't see your point. What does the rules that didn't help those guys throw "as easily" have to do with the use of a FB? Didn't Favre and Marino throw the ball as many times per game, as most the QBs are today? So they had to throw it into tighter windows, but do you think the NFL doesn't run the ball at all? What about protection?

So you want to use someone that isn't as good at their job (as a FB would be at his)... for situations that are VERY important to a football team, so that you can ..??.. have another roster spot for a WR that will never see the field??? How does having a FB on the team stop Manning from opening up the field and throwing in passing situations? I HOPE to god you aren't suggesting we should be running a "spread" offense all the time so that Manning can throw every down. Thats exactly what Manning did NOT want, and one of the reasons he picked Denver to begin with... was because of the offense that we approached him with when coming in for the interview.

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Who were the FB's they used?

I am going to assume Giants used one correctly, even though I don't know who it is.

Giants- Henry Hynoski
Steelers- David Johnson
Packers- John Kuhn

All of these guys are used in the same way Gronk is being used by Denver. They're mostly on the field only in short yardage and goal line situations.

NightTerror218
08-29-2012, 11:35 AM
Giants- Henry Hynoski
Steelers- David Johnson
Packers- John Kuhn

All of these guys are used in the same way Gronk is being used by Denver. They're mostly on the field only in short yardage and goal line situations.

Kuuuhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Dzone
08-29-2012, 11:41 AM
Mike Wallace returns to Steelers. Hope he doesnt get one on one with Rahim

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 11:53 AM
I just don't see your point. What does the rules that didn't help those guys throw "as easily" have to do with the use of a FB? Didn't Favre and Marino throw the ball as many times per game, as most the QBs are today? So they had to throw it into tighter windows, but do you think the NFL doesn't run the ball at all? What about protection?

Passer friendly rules allow WR's to get off the line cleaner because they can't be touched after 5 yards = easier for them to get open = easier to pass. It's why your seeing so many passing yards in today's game, and why 3,500 yards is no longer a "great" season. Favre and Marino threw as many times as basically half the QB's in the NFL.


I just don't understand your point of how it doesn't matter because 2 or 3 QB's in the day passed for as much as half of the NFL. It would clearly indicate to me that it's either easier to pass in todays game, or QB's are just that much better, which we all know is rubbish.




So you want to use someone that isn't as good at their job (as a FB would be at his)... for situations that are VERY important to a football team, so that you can ..??.. have another roster spot for a WR that will never see the field??? How does having a FB on the team stop Manning from opening up the field and throwing in passing situations? I HOPE to god you aren't suggesting we should be running a "spread" offense all the time so that Manning can throw every down. Thats exactly what Manning did NOT want, and one of the reasons he picked Denver to begin with... was because of the offense that we approached him with when coming in for the interview.

I would want to use someone BETTER at their job, like Peyton m'fin Manning. Spread the field out, put another WR out there, let the other team blitz with no FB abnd let Peyton M'fin Manning pick the defense apart with the open field.

It's what he did in Indianapolis, and I think don;'t believe for one second he would rather change to an offense with a FB than continue doing what worked well for so many years in Indy if he had the choice.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Giants- Henry Hynoski
Steelers- David Johnson
Packers- John Kuhn

All of these guys are used in the same way Gronk is being used by Denver. They're mostly on the field only in short yardage and goal line situations.


Giants yes. They are a physical game that doesn't ask their QB to dictate tempo the entire game.

David Johnson wasn't even on the Steelers roster in their last SuperBowl. In fact no FB was. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season#Depth_chart

With as much as Aaron Rodgers spread out the field and used multiple TE sets, I would be curious on how often Kruk was used as a true FB. He was probably used more as a RB because of all the injuries that year.

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 12:58 PM
Giants yes. They are a physical game that doesn't ask their QB to dictate tempo the entire game.

David Johnson wasn't even on the Steelers roster in their last SuperBowl. In fact no FB was. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season#Depth_chart

With as much as Aaron Rodgers spread out the field and used multiple TE sets, I would be curious on how often Kruk was used as a true FB. He was probably used more as a RB because of all the injuries that year.

Wikipedia, really? C'mon Silk. You're usually better than that. David Johnson was the fullback for the Pittsburgh Steelers in thier last super bowl.
http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLV_roster.php
He's out for the season with a torn ACL this year. Sean McHugh played the position in the super bowl you referred to. He was listed as a TE, but the Steelers used him at fullback.
http://www.sportspool.com/football/super_bowl/Superbowl_XLIII_roster.php

Cugel
08-29-2012, 01:02 PM
What became of Bolden as a 4th CB/return guy?

He's been disappointing so far. He has a long way to go to be a starting quality DB in the NFL if he ever gets there. Great talent, but not remotely ready for prime time.

They gave up on him early as a KR when he was holding the ball away from his body. The special teams coach actually ran out onto the field about 30 yards to scream at Bolden one practice to stop holding the ball like a loaf of bread on KRs.

They quickly went to Willis, but he's had his struggles lately too. Kick returner really isn't as important as it used to be with kickoffs sailing out of the end-zone at Mile High. If you kicker allows ANY return at Mile High by kicking short of the end-zone, you have a weak legged kicker!

Ziggy
08-29-2012, 01:08 PM
Matt Willis has been a bit of a disappointment as well. The Broncos would be wise to talk to Jabar Gaffney. He's nothing special, but he doesn't drop many passes. I wonder if there will be any WR/KR's on the market in a few days. The Raiders snatched up Roscoe Parrish the same day he was cut by Buffalo.

BCJ
08-29-2012, 01:09 PM
Was that the season that helped Barry get his only playoff win in a time when the game wasn't even passer friendly?

It's 2012.

Look at 2005 or 06 when Edgerrin James had over 1500 yards and Manning, while one of his bottom total yards season, had a 104.4 QB rating. A well balanced team helps build wins. Manning had 14 of them that year.

Also, DL is a major plus and thank God because our LBs look thin as hell. WR is a major concern if we get injured from DT or even Decker. Stokely looking as our 3rd wideout doesn't leave us with much depth.

Manning proved he is on against a good defense. I hope Johnson makes it as one of the RBs.

Cugel
08-29-2012, 01:09 PM
Passer friendly rules allow WR's to get off the line cleaner because they can't be touched after 5 yards = easier for them to get open = easier to pass. It's why your seeing so many passing yards in today's game, and why 3,500 yards is no longer a "great" season. Favre and Marino threw as many times as basically half the QB's in the NFL.

I would want to use someone BETTER at their job, like Peyton m'fin Manning. Spread the field out, put another WR out there, let the other team blitz with no FB abnd let Peyton M'fin Manning pick the defense apart with the open field.

It's what he did in Indianapolis, and I think don;'t believe for one second he would rather change to an offense with a FB than continue doing what worked well for so many years in Indy if he had the choice.

Obviously, it's not just the pass-defense rule changes. The biggest change was to the rules protecting the QB. Because when the new pass-interference/defensive holding rules came into effect, defenses said "OK. If we can't hand check WRs down the field any more or re-direct them or block them within 10 yards of the line, then we're going to hit the QB on EVERY pass play. If your QB tries to take advantage of the new rules to pass 35-40 times a game he won't last for 1/2 a season!"

The league started seeing more and more QBs getting hurt, and instituted new rules so now you can't touch the QB unless he's holding the ball. And with Peyton Manning, it's tough to get there before he releases the ball. You can't even take one step any more and hit the QB or hit him with your helmet, or drive him into the ground and plant him, or hit him with your helmet at all, or hit him in the head at all.

Or breath on him. Or give him a dirty look! ("Unnecessary Roughness on number 99 defense. Glaring at the QB! 15 yards. Repeat first down.") :laugh:

Obviously, this makes a huge difference. The QB can stand back there and dissect the D and there's little the defense can do about it except get pressure right up the middle in his face and clog his throwing lanes. (See Giants 2 SB wins over Tom Brady).

Cugel
08-29-2012, 01:15 PM
Matt Willis has been a bit of a disappointment as well. The Broncos would be wise to talk to Jabar Gaffney. He's nothing special, but he doesn't drop many passes. I wonder if there will be any WR/KR's on the market in a few days. The Raiders snatched up Roscoe Parrish the same day he was cut by Buffalo.

WR is the one area where they probably don't pick up any veterans. True, none of the WRs covered themselves in glory by dropping the ball 7 times last game, but you really only need 3 decent WRs and they have that with Decker, DT and Stokely. And despite the drops, Bubba Caldwell is still the 4th WR. Your 5th WR is a special teams guy who will only play WR in emergencies.

It won't matter much whether that's Willis or Greg Orton, or somebody else for that matter.

God help us if Willis ever gets into the starting role at WR, because that would mean a succession of devastating injuries to the guys ahead of him on the depth chart!

Cugel
08-29-2012, 01:19 PM
Look at 2005 or 06 when Edgerrin James had over 1500 yards and Manning, while one of his bottom total yards season, had a 104.4 QB rating. A well balanced team helps build wins. Manning had 14 of them that year.

Also, DL is a major plus and thank God because our LBs look thin as hell. WR is a major concern if we get injured from DT or even Decker. Stokely looking as our 3rd wideout doesn't leave us with much depth.

Manning proved he is on against a good defense. I hope Johnson makes it as one of the RBs.

I too like Johnson, but he's not making the team. Either they keep 3 RBs in which case they keep Lance Ball as #3. Or they keep 4 and Knowshon makes the team.

I thought Knowshon was toast, but apparently he's played well enough in the last game that Vic Lombardi says he's now a lock.

I don't know about "lock" because they could always decide to go with 3 RBs, and Knowshon doesn't play STs, but it's likely he makes it.

sneakers
08-29-2012, 03:37 PM
Kuuuhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnn

never say this again, it's annoying as hell lol

NightTerror218
08-29-2012, 04:23 PM
never say this again, it's annoying as hell lol

hahahahahaha

Joel
09-01-2012, 05:16 PM
Obviously, it's not just the pass-defense rule changes. The biggest change was to the rules protecting the QB. Because when the new pass-interference/defensive holding rules came into effect, defenses said "OK. If we can't hand check WRs down the field any more or re-direct them or block them within 10 yards of the line, then we're going to hit the QB on EVERY pass play. If your QB tries to take advantage of the new rules to pass 35-40 times a game he won't last for 1/2 a season!"

The league started seeing more and more QBs getting hurt, and instituted new rules so now you can't touch the QB unless he's holding the ball. And with Peyton Manning, it's tough to get there before he releases the ball. You can't even take one step any more and hit the QB or hit him with your helmet, or drive him into the ground and plant him, or hit him with your helmet at all, or hit him in the head at all.
Or breath on him. Or give him a dirty look! ("Unnecessary Roughness on number 99 defense. Glaring at the QB! 15 yards. Repeat first down.") :laugh:

Obviously, this makes a huge difference. The QB can stand back there and dissect the D and there's little the defense can do about it except get pressure right up the middle in his face and clog his throwing lanes. (See Giants 2 SB wins over Tom Brady).
Somewhat tangentially to the teams current state, I think it's a combination of both: Tighten the rules on defenders hitting receivers AND QBs and we'll naturally see the kind of passing explosion we have over the last decade. I still expect the Competition Committee to soon rein in what has gotten very much out of hand. Turning the NFL into Arena League is one thing, but when awful teams are even money to beat great teams as long as they keep chunking the ball 50 yards downfield and hoping the right guy catches it, long-time fans who invest money in the NFL turn away in disgust. The Patriots first play in last years Super Bowl may be a harbinger of things to come: Brady takes a three step drop and hurls the ball on a deep post even though there was no one within fifteen yards of the ball when it hit the ground; since he was in the pocket he got called for grounding, and since he was also in the end zone the Giants safety scored the first points of the game.

The funny thing is, with all the bubble wrap around QBs there are only two elite pocket passers in the game: Brady and Manning. Brady went out for the season after a perfectly legal ankle tackle a few years ago, prompting a rule against hitting passers below the knees, and even that and the other rules didn't keep Manning from missing all of last year with a serious pre-season injury. Even with panicked rules changes, playing that kind of football requires more than just a great passer: It also requires solid players at all five offensive line positions, plus a TE and FB who can pass block well. When Manning and Brady had that those put up double digit wins and won Super Bowls; when they didn't, they had season-ending injuries.

It's no accident dual-threat throwback T-QBs are increasingly popular; the era of the pure pocket passer ended with Troy Aikmans career when he got his second concussion in one year. Put statues like Brian Griese and Kyle Orton on the '85 Bears and their accuracy would compensate for their weak arms to give them fine careers. Today they're wash outs grossly inferior to the likes of Jake the Snake and Tim Tebow, who have strong and inaccurate arms but know how to avoid a rush and even pick up first downs with their feet.

It's kind of weird, really, because, for all the talk of innovation, the resurgence of the 3-4 and dual-threat QBs makes todays NFL look increasingly like the original AFL, or the NFL in the '50s.

I can't speak to the team though; I'm just hoping I can find streams so that'll change once the season starts.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2012, 07:06 PM
The era of the pure pocket passer died? That's of significant development, you'd think it'd of made a newspaper somewhere. :rolleyes:

Btw, there are exactly zero elite "Dual-threat, throw back T-QB's", all the top QB's in the league are pocket passers, so the point about the "grossly inferior" QB's era being over is just typical Joel bullshit.......

Joel
09-01-2012, 09:29 PM
The era of the pure pocket passer died? That's of significant development, you'd think it'd of made a newspaper somewhere. :rolleyes:

Btw, there are exactly zero elite "Dual-threat, throw back T-QB's", all the top QB's in the league are pocket passers, so the point about the "grossly inferior" QB's era being over is just typical Joel bullshit.......
Even Eli Manning knows how to scramble, perforce. Pure pocket passers have gone the way of the dodo, for much the same reason. Rodgers is a dual-threat QB, and most agree he is fairly elite; he's probably the best model because, as good as he is with his feet, he is a passer first and foremost. I don't expect Michael Vick or Big Ben to be as successful (I certainly hope not, because they're awful human beings,) but they're both pretty good dual-threat QBs also. Feel free to stop trolling me any time now, btw.

Simple Jaded
09-01-2012, 11:15 PM
Being able to move doesn't mean you're not a pocket passer. Being able to throw from the pocket makes you a pocket passer.

Aaron Rodgers is a pocket passer who just so happens to have plus mobility. You're just talking about immobile QB's, who btw, still have a role in today's NFL.......

Chef Zambini
09-02-2012, 12:32 PM
we have learned that the positions they knew were weak in,LB and safety, they failed to properly addfress in the draft and now at the end of free agency and they remain huge question marks for our defense. we learned that playing NFL qb is not just like riding a bike, and we also learned that brock osweiler is our FUTURE yet at this point he is too incompoetent to unseat a poor excuse for a back-up in hanie

Simple Jaded
09-02-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm not sure what the big F'n deal is, the way I look at it this is Osweiler's redshirt season.......

TXBRONC
09-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Even Eli Manning knows how to scramble, perforce. Pure pocket passers have gone the way of the dodo, for much the same reason. Rodgers is a dual-threat QB, and most agree he is fairly elite; he's probably the best model because, as good as he is with his feet, he is a passer first and foremost. I don't expect Michael Vick or Big Ben to be as successful (I certainly hope not, because they're awful human beings,) but they're both pretty good dual-threat QBs also. Feel free to stop trolling me any time now, btw.

No they haven't gone the way of the dodo bird. A quarterback like Manning or Brady will never go out of vogue because you don't need to have good running speed to make it in the NFL. You need quick feet so that you can slide away from pressure. Rothelisberger doesn't use his foot speed to gain yards, he uses it to buy time.

Chef Zambini
09-03-2012, 03:21 AM
brady is a pure pocket passer. he is the exception, not the rule.

ShaneFalco
09-03-2012, 06:23 AM
i really dislike the type of wr caldwell is, maybe its just me.

shank
09-03-2012, 07:15 AM
i really dislike the type of wr caldwell is, maybe its just me.

that's racist.

Joel
09-03-2012, 04:05 PM
Being able to move doesn't mean you're not a pocket passer. Being able to throw from the pocket makes you a pocket passer.

Aaron Rodgers is a pocket passer who just so happens to have plus mobility. You're just talking about immobile QB's, who btw, still have a role in today's NFL.......
Yes, "PURE pocket passer" refers to immobile QBs; not those who can pass from the pocket (which most NFL QBs can do pretty well,) but those who can do nothing else. Guys who can no more buy time with their feet than run for first downs or throw bootleg passes. They're useless without a solid pass blocking wall, because defenders pour through any hole and end the pure pocket passers drive, if not season or career.

The NFL has two great pure pocket passers (that we know of...:) Peyton Manning, who performed exceptionally well when the Colts had Tarik Glenn, Ryan Lilja/Jeff Gandy, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott and Ryan Diem, but got hurt in the preseason and missed all of last year when those guys retired or scattered to the four FA winds following the Colts two SB trips. The other is Tom Brady, who had Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal and Nick Kaczur. It's still a pretty good line, mainly because they drafted well the past few years in acquiring Sebastian Vollmer and Nate Solder as the two starting tackles protecting Bradys flanks (possibly because Nick Kaczur is no star,) but Brady still missed all but the first game of 2008 with an injury, just as Manning did last year. Those who believe their performance not largely dependent on the Colts and Pats offensive line need only compare the records of Drew Bledsoe and Matt Cassel in NE to their records elsewhere.


No they haven't gone the way of the dodo bird. A quarterback like Manning or Brady will never go out of vogue because you don't need to have good running speed to make it in the NFL. You need quick feet so that you can slide away from pressure. Rothelisberger doesn't use his foot speed to gain yards, he uses it to buy time.
Roethlisberger is more about evading tackles than gaining yards, but quite capable of the latter as well. Pure pocket passers can do neither; every NFL QB can pass from the pocket, but the pocket passer can do so nowhere else, and needs solid protection precisely because he can't evade tacklers. Pure pocket passers still get drafted, sometimes very good ones, but are quickly booed out of town everywhere that lacks the impenetrable offensive line needed to maintain their vital pockets (which is just about everywhere.) It's just a lot easier, cheaper and more efficient to find an erratic but mobile QB like Roethlisberger than to pay a guy like Peyton Manning $20 million/year AND find no less than five offensive linemen to keep his jersey clean.

Put it this way: Would you rather have a Carson Palmer/Philip Rivers or an Aaron Rodgers/Ben Roethlisberger/Michael Vick? How many NFL FOs prefer (i.e. highly draft) the former?

Joel
09-03-2012, 04:10 PM
that's racist.
No, it's Recheist, but I believe you're thinking of his brother. ;)

MOtorboat
09-03-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't know how this devolved into the "pocket passer is dead" thread (it isn't...in fact that's not even remotely true.), but Ziggy, that was pretty good positional analysis about where this team is at, at this point.

TXBRONC
09-03-2012, 09:41 PM
Yes, "PURE pocket passer" refers to immobile QBs; not those who can pass from the pocket (which most NFL QBs can do pretty well,) but those who can do nothing else. Guys who can no more buy time with their feet than run for first downs or throw bootleg passes. They're useless without a solid pass blocking wall, because defenders pour through any hole and end the pure pocket passers drive, if not season or career.

The NFL has two great pure pocket passers (that we know of...:) Peyton Manning, who performed exceptionally well when the Colts had Tarik Glenn, Ryan Lilja/Jeff Gandy, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott and Ryan Diem, but got hurt in the preseason and missed all of last year when those guys retired or scattered to the four FA winds following the Colts two SB trips. The other is Tom Brady, who had Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Steve Neal and Nick Kaczur. It's still a pretty good line, mainly because they drafted well the past few years in acquiring Sebastian Vollmer and Nate Solder as the two starting tackles protecting Bradys flanks (possibly because Nick Kaczur is no star,) but Brady still missed all but the first game of 2008 with an injury, just as Manning did last year. Those who believe their performance not largely dependent on the Colts and Pats offensive line need only compare the records of Drew Bledsoe and Matt Cassel in NE to their records elsewhere.


Roethlisberger is more about evading tackles than gaining yards, but quite capable of the latter as well. Pure pocket passers can do neither; every NFL QB can pass from the pocket, but the pocket passer can do so nowhere else, and needs solid protection precisely because he can't evade tacklers. Pure pocket passers still get drafted, sometimes very good ones, but are quickly booed out of town everywhere that lacks the impenetrable offensive line needed to maintain their vital pockets (which is just about everywhere.) It's just a lot easier, cheaper and more efficient to find an erratic but mobile QB like Roethlisberger than to pay a guy like Peyton Manning $20 million/year AND find no less than five offensive linemen to keep his jersey clean.

Put it this way: Would you rather have a Carson Palmer/Philip Rivers or an Aaron Rodgers/Ben Roethlisberger/Michael Vick? How many NFL FOs prefer (i.e. highly draft) the former?

That is not necessarily true. The really good quarterbacks like Manning and Brady know how to slide around in the pocket. Outside of Jeff Saturday Manning didn't have great offensive line but he knows how to slide away from pressure and get rid of the ball quickly. Being able to run is secondary to being slide around in the pocket, read defenses, and throw accuracy. Being able to run is gravy.

Simple Jaded
09-03-2012, 10:25 PM
So the PURE, immobile, useless without a good pass blocking, pocket passer is dead? Good to know.

Btw, Phylis Rivers says Hi.......

Hawgdriver
09-03-2012, 10:58 PM
I've learned I'm not sure I can trust R. Moore, but I love to be proved wrong.

TheTruth
09-04-2012, 12:49 PM
Most of the starters are done for the preseason. All that's left is the game of backups. We're probably going to know very little more after that game than we do now. So what exactly do we know? This is my take.

Offense-
QB- Elway took a big gamble signing Peyton Manning to a huge contract. He is who John Elway thought he was. How nice is it to see open receivers actually get the ball? Manning has single handedly changed the expectations and level of performance around Dove Valley.

FB- Yes, we have a real fullback. Gronk has been doing a great job opening holes and eliminating linebackers from the play. I've been impressed with him.

RB- McGahee looks great. Despite not having the breakaway speed, he gets the most out of every carry. He still has the agility and vision to be an effective #1 back. Hillman will have to get fully healthy before we know what we have in him. Lance Ball is average and reliable. You know exactly what you're going to get out of him night in and night out. He'll never be more than a quality #3 back in the NFL. Knowshon fits the role of a 3rd and mid to long range back perfectly. He works well out in space, has good hands, and does an excellent job of picking up the blitz.

WR- Decker is obviously ahead of the curve with Manning. The chemistry between the two is undeniable. I'm going to be patient with DT. He's still learning how to run routes, and trying to get on the same page with Manning. The talent is there. Hopefully it will all come together at some time during the season. Stokely looks like he's 28 again. Still slow as molasses, still knows how to get open, and still has hands like glue. I have no idea who the 4th WR will be. Caldwell was a lock early on, but he's fallen by the wayside some in the preseason. This may be a position that the Broncos scour the waiver wire for at the end of the week. Willis has been hot and cold as well.

TE- Dreesen is solid. His blocking has been good, and he can catch the ball. Tamme has been a huge disappointment. He can't block and he hasn't been able to regin the ball in consistently. Manning won't keep throwing to a guy that he doesn't trust to hang on to the ball. Virgil Green is still a solid blocker and backup fullback. I expect him to make the cut, but this might be another position that the Broncos bolster through the waiver wire. It would be a contraversial move, but I'd love to see the Broncos go after Chris Cooley. He can block, he can get open, and he can catch the dang ball.

OL- This is where it gets messy. Clady looks like he's returning to form. Franklin looks like he's improving in pass blocking and has always been a beast against the run. Manny Ramirez has been a very pleasant surprise. He's been left to block one on one most of the preseason, and has more than held his own in pass blocking. If you pay close attention, you'll notice that the Broncos almost always use Beadles and Walton to double one pass rusher, while the other three lineman are left to handle thier men alone. Beadles and Walton are fine in pass protection as long as the other team is rushing only four. When they rush more, it gets ugly. Need an example? Watch the San Fran game. Mannings big hit came on a play where the Dline stunted and Beadles completely let his man come free through the middle. The play where Hanie was strip sacked? Beadles was left to block one on one on a stunt and was beaten like a drum again. Ramirez is clearly a better guard than Beadles. Don't be surprised to see him moved to LG when Kuper gets back on the field. Don't get me started on the backups. I don't think the Broncos have a single quality backup lineman outside of Manny Ramirez.




Defense-
Dline- This unit has been the biggest surprise of the preseason. There is talent, depth, and power in that Dline. How long has it been since we could say that? The Broncos starting Dline has been superb. Warren looks like he's back to form. He's eating up double teams and opening up opportunities for his linemates. Big Vick is big Vick again. He's been consistently pushing lineman back towards the QB and collapsing the pocket. He's solid against the run as well. Unrein is a quality backup. Wolfe is making an impact despite missing OTA's. He's in on just about every play with the starting defense, playing end on run downs and tackle on passing downs. Many considered Ayers a solid starter last season. This season he's a solid backup. Beal flashed early, but has faded some. He might be the odd man out here. Doom is back to his 2009 form. Is it just me or does he look quicker this year? Malik Jackson has made his mark in the preseason as well. His versatility on the line makes him even more valuable. I expect to see his role increase as the season goes on. When was the last time the Broncos had two promising rookie defensive lineman on the roster?

Linebackers-
Outside of Von Miller there's little to be happy about. Von looks great. I'd like to see him rushing the passer more and covering TE's and RB's less. Joe Mays is still the misguided missle. It's going to take a lot for this defense to cover up his mistakes. Wesley Woodyard is a 3rd down linebacker at best. He's not starter material. Our glimmer of hope here is Danny Trevathan. He seems to have a nose for the ball and can cover well. It's too early to tell if he's Wesley Woodyard 2, or a promising young every down linebacker. He was playing well before the injury, and I thought he had a chance to supplant Woodyard. I'd love to see Brooking get healthy and take over the MLB job. I'd rather have a slower, more instinctive MLB that will get to the right gap (albeit slower than most) and put himself in position to make a tackle, than a guy that takes himself out of most plays with missed tackles and wrong angles. His hammy may have done him in though. It's not hard to see why they are keeping DJ around. He may be a knucklehead off of the field, but he's still the 2nd best linebacker on this roster. This is another position that the Broncos may try to improve via the waiver wire, or even through trade.

Safety-
I'm liking the Mike Adams signing more and more every game. He doesn't do anything flashy. He just gets the job done and you can count on him to be in the right place. Rahim Moore is a big risk out there on the field. His athleticism doesn't seem to translate well in game action. He's still making mental errors that could cost this team games. Quinton Carter was hurt early on in camp and hasn't been able to get back on the field. Our ace in the hole may be Jim Leonhard. He's another solid vet that knows how to be in the right place at the right time. He actually might be the best safety on this roster. I'm hoping that he's healthy enough to play a lot in Thursday's game. He also might be our best punt returner outside of Eric Decker.

Cornerback-
Champ is still blanketing the other team's best receiver and playing at a pro bowl level. Tracy Porter is a huge upgrade over Goodman, and Chris Harris is picking up where he left off last season. The Broncos only weak spot here is the 4th corner. I'll take that. This unit has been massively upgraded in the offseason. Between the defensive line and the corners, we might just be able to overcome some of the linebacker woes.



Special Teams-
Our kickers are solid. Our return game needs a serious boost. I'd love to see the Broncos bring in a return guy and add some gusto to this phase of the game. For now though I'll settle for our returners holding onto the ball.

Overall I'm pleased. I didn't expect the Broncos to win the Super Bowl this season, and still don't. The depth is a major concern, but I do think that we can win the division, make some serious noise in the playoffs, and head into the offseason with just a few holes to fill to put us over the edge. I can't wait for the season to start.



We had a good D last year but lost our DC. We had a tough up and coming QB last year and replaced him with an ageing fossil. future hall of famer but fragile and won't finish the year. We thought we could do without Cutler,Royal,Marshall,Hillis, Tbow and others but have yet to fill any of these spots long term.

And we also know that the team is still being owned by Skat Bowlen and run by John Elgay....The very two donkies that have ripped away good players whenever we started compiling them. And we know we will be trying to refill those positions once again next year. We know its an endless turnstyle the way these two donkies run things. And we know you can't build something that way. As a result we know we will usualy reside in the basement as we do these days nearly every year.

Thanks Skat. Thaks Elgay

chazoe60
09-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Stupid is as stupid types.

Traveler
09-04-2012, 01:41 PM
What we've learned is the NFL better watch out for this team "NEXT" year. We'll work out most of the kinks this year, but we'll really be a force to be reckoned with next season.

TheTruth
09-04-2012, 10:19 PM
What we've learned is the NFL better watch out for this team "NEXT" year. We'll work out most of the kinks this year, but we'll really be a force to be reckoned with next season.


Its always NEXT YEAR for us because of the way Skat and Elgay run this team. I would much prefer Cutler here throwing to Marshall and Royal year in and year out with awesome chemistry by now. Hillis in the backfield and Tbow backup to Cutler.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Skat Bowlen loves to find the long term answers and get rid of them once they clash in any way shape or form with the coach in question who also wont be here for more then couple of years. Thanks for the revolving door way of building a team.

Thanks Skat
Thaks Elgay

Jsteve01
09-04-2012, 10:54 PM
What we've learned is the NFL better watch out for this team "NEXT" year. We'll work out most of the kinks this year, but we'll really be a force to be reckoned with next season.


Its always NEXT YEAR for us because of the way Skat and Elgay run this team. I would much prefer Cutler here throwing to Marshall and Royal year in and year out with awesome chemistry by now. Hillis in the backfield and Tbow backup to Cutler.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Skat Bowlen loves to find the long term answers and get rid of them once they clash in any way shape or form with the coach in question who also wont be here for more then couple of years. Thanks for the revolving door way of building a team.

Thanks Skat
Thaks Elgay dude your name is the epitome of misnomer. Go away

Jsteve01
09-04-2012, 10:56 PM
So youre aware that said revolving door has only churned subpar players from the previous regime. Correct? Your drivel has made me sick to my stomach

Joel
09-04-2012, 10:56 PM
That is not necessarily true. The really good quarterbacks like Manning and Brady know how to slide around in the pocket. Outside of Jeff Saturday Manning didn't have great offensive line but he knows how to slide away from pressure and get rid of the ball quickly. Being able to run is secondary to being slide around in the pocket, read defenses, and throw accuracy. Being able to run is gravy.
Tarik Glenn was an elite tackle, and Diem was pretty darned good as well. Lilja is still a fine guard—in KC. Manning's been rightly praised for many things, but mobility, in any sense, has never been among them; back in 2005, when his line only allowed 16 sacks all year, it didn't matter. Two Super Bowls later that line was gone, and Mannings Colts had to back into the playoffs with a .500 record in a very weak Division, then last year he missed the whole season with an injury. $20 million/year is a perfectably reasonable price for high performance from a QB like Manning, because the linemen needed to keep him in one piece will run at least that much. The question is whether a team can drop $40 million/year on six players.


So the PURE, immobile, useless without a good pass blocking, pocket passer is dead? Good to know.

Btw, Phylis Rivers says Hi.......
I covered Rivers; what is he, like 2-20 in the playoffs? He had the good fortune to enter the league after we and the Faders collapsed, but what good did it do him even when he had Tomlinson and Gates?


What we've learned is the NFL better watch out for this team "NEXT" year. We'll work out most of the kinks this year, but we'll really be a force to be reckoned with next season.
I hope you're right, because next year looks like our best and only shot. It'll probably take most of this season to integrate all the new offensive personell into a comprehensive system; usually does with a new QB.

Joel
09-04-2012, 10:59 PM
Oh, and someone tell "TheTruth" Elway has only been in the front office for one year. Blaming him for the Cutler trade makes as much sense as blaming FDR for the Civil War (i.e. none.) Sorry, man, but when you come on a Broncos board bashing Elway and praising Tebow it implies you've had too much Gatorade.

Timmy!
09-04-2012, 11:01 PM
Over/under on posts before ban currently at 13. Place ur bets.

Simple Jaded
09-05-2012, 02:04 AM
Tarik Glenn was an elite tackle, and Diem was pretty darned good as well. Lilja is still a fine guard—in KC. Manning's been rightly praised for many things, but mobility, in any sense, has never been among them; back in 2005, when his line only allowed 16 sacks all year, it didn't matter. Two Super Bowls later that line was gone, and Mannings Colts had to back into the playoffs with a .500 record in a very weak Division, then last year he missed the whole season with an injury. $20 million/year is a perfectably reasonable price for high performance from a QB like Manning, because the linemen needed to keep him in one piece will run at least that much. The question is whether a team can drop $40 million/year on six players.


I covered Rivers; what is he, like 2-20 in the playoffs? He had the good fortune to enter the league after we and the Faders collapsed, but what good did it do him even when he had Tomlinson and Gates?


I hope you're right, because next year looks like our best and only shot. It'll probably take most of this season to integrate all the new offensive personell into a comprehensive system; usually does with a new QB.Ok, you go ahead and take Vick, I'll take Phylis.

My point is, those pathetically inferior, pure pocket passers are alive and doing very well.

Btw, wtf is a Skat that this Truth dude is talking about?.......

TheTruth
09-05-2012, 02:36 AM
Oh, and someone tell "TheTruth" Elway has only been in the front office for one year. Blaming him for the Cutler trade makes as much sense as blaming FDR for the Civil War (i.e. none.) Sorry, man, but when you come on a Broncos board bashing Elway and praising Tebow it implies you've had too much Gatorade.

If you read carefully you noticed i said Skat and Elgay not just Elgay. Elgay helped bring in (yet another) short term answer(not the answer) in the form of Manning. And im sorry if i liked Tbow's upside and youth over Mannings upteenth season and operations. He likely won't be here next year or he will be too broke down to get it done. We need alot of upgrades not this one year hope for a miracle solution. The Colts didn't quit on him for no reason.

And skat didn't want Cutler and his two receivers Royal and Marshall and he and Josh D didn't have any interest in Hillis even when we had no other reasonale options. Why isn't Tbow at least a backup to Manning who won't finish the season?

Both Skat and Elgay bring in Manning fresh out of Geriatric park as if this is the way to build a consistent winner. Maybe you guys are pacified by this mirrage but im tired of not commiting to good players we have developed and using the revolving door method of building a team

Thanks Skat.
Thanks Elgay.

Chef Zambini
09-05-2012, 02:58 AM
If you read carefully you noticed i said Skat and Elgay not just Elgay. Elgay helped bring in (yet another) short term answer(not the answer) in the form of Manning. And im sorry if i liked Tbow's upside and youth over Mannings upteenth season and operations. He likely won't be here next year or he will be too broke down to get it done. We need alot of upgrades not this one year hope for a miracle solution. The Colts didn't quit on him for no reason.

And skat didn't want Cutler and his two receivers Royal and Marshall and he and Josh D didn't have any interest in Hillis even when we had no other reasonale options. Why isn't Tbow at least a backup to Manning who won't finish the season?

Both Skat and Elgay bring in Manning fresh out of Geriatric park as if this is the way to build a consistent winner. Maybe you guys are pacified by this mirrage but im tired of not commiting to good players we have developed and using the revolving door method of building a team

Thanks Skat.
Thanks Elgay.th e TRUTH is tebow did NOT want to be in denver! TRUTH is TEBOW WANTED OUT !
the TRUTH is manning was the most coveted free agent since the minister of defense left the eagles for the packers and became a catalyst for the lombardii
(reggie white just in case you dont know the truth)
the truth is, JE stepped in after JMCD turned the broncos franchise in to a wasteland of lost talent!
every talented WR we had wanted out because TEBOW was our QB!
thats the TRUTH !
marshal
lloyd
gafney
royal, NONE of them wanted to play with tebow !
YOU saying that JE and the owner are at fault makes you sound retarded, thats the TRUTH !
TT is a great FB and a great human being, but he is a poor excuse for an NFL QB, that is the truth !

chazoe60
09-05-2012, 07:02 AM
I've asked before and I'll ask again, can someone be banned for being stupid?

Get it done mods. Tia

BigDaddyBronco
09-05-2012, 07:07 AM
It's like two retards fighting over a booger.

TheTruth
09-06-2012, 08:51 AM
I've asked before and I'll ask again, can someone be banned for being stupid?

Get it done mods. Tia

Dont get your pantys all in a bunch Arn Anderson

chazoe60
09-06-2012, 09:44 AM
Dont get your pantys all in a bunch Arn Anderson

Okay, now I'm convinced this is another one of Dog's alter ego accounts.

Dzone
09-06-2012, 10:08 AM
LOL...this issome good shit here

SR
09-06-2012, 11:40 AM
th e TRUTH is tebow did NOT want to be in denver! TRUTH is TEBOW WANTED OUT !


Where the **** did you gather that little gem up from?

Thnikkaman
09-06-2012, 11:47 AM
This isn't the Smack forum. We should try to keep it on topic.

MOtorboat
09-06-2012, 11:50 AM
Where the **** did you gather that little gem up from?

His jump to conclusions mat in his basement.

GEM
09-06-2012, 01:50 PM
Can we please leave the elementary names for people out of conversations? Elgay and skat? Who is skat? I guess someone thinks it is real clever or something, but TheTruth is...it's just plain silly and makes the entire post unreadable. TheTruth is that the poster posing as TheTruth is most likely one of our previously banned characters who still hasn't learned how to post within our rules or how to be a productive part of a message board. We may not know who you are yet, but you aren't doing too good of a job flying under the radar.

Simple Jaded
09-06-2012, 08:08 PM
Where the **** did you gather that little gem up from?

Skip Bayless for one, he was saying this before Manning even made his decision. A few others ,too. He didn't demand a trade but he wanted a chance to start.......

TheTruth
09-06-2012, 11:14 PM
Can we please leave the elementary names for people out of conversations? Elgay and skat? Who is skat? I guess someone thinks it is real clever or something, but TheTruth is...it's just plain silly and makes the entire post unreadable. TheTruth is that the poster posing as TheTruth is most likely one of our previously banned characters who still hasn't learned how to post within our rules or how to be a productive part of a message board. We may not know who you are yet, but you aren't doing too good of a job flying under the radar.

24601!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEM
09-07-2012, 10:33 AM
24601!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To pay that any mind would mean I care who you are.

Nomad
09-07-2012, 10:38 AM
to pay that any mind would mean i care who you are.

lol!

hotcarl
09-07-2012, 02:39 PM
take oIT I1(one) day at a t a time and GAME at a time... somtop peeking into the backfield if 6you hwaant to be the head of a matress firm. LeAVE it OUT OF THIS<,., no more ferry goodmoth.

Chef Zambini
09-07-2012, 02:45 PM
earl campbell hot links!
I think of them every time I see hot carl's avatar !

hotcarl
09-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Mmmm earl campbell dogs

Chef Zambini
09-07-2012, 02:49 PM
earl campbell hot links!
I think of them every time I see hot carl's avatar !http://www.earlcampbell.com/EC/Gallery-Life_After_Football.html

Joel
09-08-2012, 09:47 AM
They are pretty darned tasty, Chef, yeah. Sadly, I can't get any kind of kielbasa here. *is a sad panda*

Nomad
09-08-2012, 09:48 AM
They are pretty darned tasty, Chef, yeah. Sadly, I can't get any kind of kielbasa here. *is a sad panda*

You gonna miss hotcarl, Joel.:lol: