Early camp opinions

[broncofaninfla]

Ok to date based on what you have read or for the lucky few that have actually attended camp, who are the best performers and disapointments?

The good:
Based on what I've read, Hillis is on the verge of being a featured part of this offense, a star in the making.
Eddie Royal having another solid camp and looks to be primed for a huge year.
Tim Crowder, so far the most impressive OLB in camp.
Josh Barrett seems to be earning more and more playing time.
Marshall, love him or hate him the guy has looked great when he practices.
Marcus Thomas could very well be one of the starting DE's
McKinley looks like a keeper, reminds me of Royal.


The bad:
Ryan McBean, just a big body to date, no impact what so ever on the field
Jarvis Moss so far on the depth chart he is rumored to want to give up.
Lamont Jordan, read several reports that he is slow and not in the top 3 RB's
Chris Simms has been inconsistent and does not look like a solid back up.
Back up QB's in general, wemight be in trouble if Orton goes down.
Orton's deep balls. I've read some good but mostly bad press on how Ortons deep passes have looked to date.

Questions?
Does anybody know how the NT position is looking? How is Fields looking? Baker? Carlton Powell looking good at DE?
:salute:

[Tned]

I've seen some tweets from one of the AM 1510 guys that seem to indicate Fields looks good and will be the starting NT. I've read (somewhere, not sure where) that he was holding his own at the point of attack.

You other points seem in line with what I have seen. I've read some good and some bad about Simms, but mostly bad. I was listening to one of the Denver stations this morning (might have been 1510 or the FAN) and one of them made a comment about how Simms wouldn't be in the NFL if his father wasn't Phil Simms. So, that's their opinion of him.

Early on I read some good things about Jordan, but the last few reports haven't been as good.

Same with Torrain. Sounded like he had a great first day, but the practices since then have been so/so.

Hillis seems like one of the stars of camp. I love the fact that he is shining, because I think he can be a big time impact player. Between his hard nose running, and having some of the best hands on the team, he can be a big time weapon. If Moreno gets into camp soon, I can definately see Moreno and Hillis being a one/two punch, and if Moreno doesn't show he is ready for prime time, Hillis could be the featured back, with someone like Buckhalter teaming up with him.

Again, based on what the radio guys were saying this morning, as good as Crowder looks, if Ayers signs soon (which he did), Crowder still isn't a sure thing to make the roster. Based on the reports I have read, that seems unlikely, but who knows.

The other thing to add is Gaffney. I have read a lot of good thing about Gaffney, both from fans giving reports and media giving reports. It sounds like regardless of whether or not Marshall is ready to go, Gaffney will be a big part of the offense.

[broncofaninfla]

I've seen some tweets from one of the AM 1510 guys that seem to indicate Fields looks good and will be the starting NT. I've read (somewhere, not sure where) that he was holding his own at the point of attack.

You other points seem in line with what I have seen. I've read some good and some bad about Simms, but mostly bad. I was listening to one of the Denver stations this morning (might have been 1510 or the FAN) and one of them made a comment about how Simms wouldn't be in the NFL if his father wasn't Phil Simms. So, that's their opinion of him.

Early on I read some good things about Jordan, but the last few reports haven't been as good.

Same with Torrain. Sounded like he had a great first day, but the practices since then have been so/so.

Hillis seems like one of the stars of camp. I love the fact that he is shining, because I think he can be a big time impact player. Between his hard nose running, and having some of the best hands on the team, he can be a big time weapon. If Moreno gets into camp soon, I can definately see Moreno and Hillis being a one/two punch, and if Moreno doesn't show he is ready for prime time, Hillis could be the featured back, with someone like Buckhalter teaming up with him.

Again, based on what the radio guys were saying this morning, as good as Crowder looks, if Ayers signs soon (which he did), Crowder still isn't a sure thing to make the roster. Based on the reports I have read, that seems unlikely, but who knows.

The other thing to add is Gaffney. I have read a lot of good thing about Gaffney, both from fans giving reports and media giving reports. It sounds like regardless of whether or not Marshall is ready to go, Gaffney will be a big part of the offense.

I'd be really surprised at this point if Crowder didn't make the cut, seems like he has stood out during most of the camp.

I wouldn't be surprised however to see Jordan get cut. In hindsight we would have been better off to keep Pittman and never signed Jordan.

I'm curious as to where Ayers is going to line up, probably OLB but sounds like we need help at DE.

I just read some postive reports on Fields.

I'm still waiting to hear some feedback on Baker and Larsen. Curious to see how they are doing.

[Traveler]

I'd be really surprised at this point if Crowder didn't make the cut, seems like he has stood out during most of the camp.

I wouldn't be surprised however to see Jordan get cut. In hindsight we would have been better off to keep Pittman and never signed Jordan.

I'm curious as to where Ayers is going to line up, probably OLB but sounds like we need help at DE.

I just read some postive reports on Fields.

I'm still waiting to hear some feedback on Baker and Larsen. Curious to see how they are doing.

As we all know, once they actually play some games, all these questions will get cleared up. That said, if Crowder keep playing this well, I wouldn't be shocked to see him and Ayers as the our two starting OLB's with Dumervil being used in the pass rush specialist role. That would leave Moss on the outside looking in because he really doesn't fit on either the DL or at LB.

My concern is still the NT position. We need a bigger, more talented player there. Fields is servicable. Thomas' game is more suited to be a penetrating DT. I actually see him as a better fit at DE. Powell and Parker have been mentioned little.

Don't be surprised to see the team make a move to add another NT once cuts around the league begin or make a trade by packaging Moss and picks for a player.

[NightTrainLayne]

I've seen some tweets from one of the AM 1510 guys that seem to indicate Fields looks good and will be the starting NT. I've read (somewhere, not sure where) that he was holding his own at the point of attack.


I think that it was a quote from McDaniels last week that said that Fields was holding the point of attack well, and that he thought Fields could handle anything that comes at him.

Let's hope so, because that's an important spot to hold down.

[muse]

I wouldn't be surprised however to see Jordan get cut. In hindsight we would have been better off to keep Pittman and never signed Jordan.


True, I thought Pittman deserved a shot in TC this year as he performed way above expectations last year as well as being handy down near the goal line.

Any reports on Carlton Powell? I'm definitely excited about the guy although we can't expect too much of him seeing as this is his first training camp.

[underrated29]

Winners:
hillis
royal
bucky
phonz
crowder
orton

Losers:
jordan- i hope he makes it. I really like him, but he looked horrible on the 2 plays i saw him in last night.
simms- i think he will be fine as a backup, but lets hope we never find out either.
cj jones- he might be a PS, but thats it!

On Bubble:
mckinely will either make the team or the PS- probably the PS
Chad jackson- i think he will make the team. He impressed me most out of the "backup" wide outs.
Nate swift- did we draft him? If we didnt which i dont think we did, he is in trouble i think
fields, powell,thomas- they all make it..................................

work got in the way lost all train of thought.

[topscribe]

Winners:
hillis
royal
bucky
phonz
crowder
orton

Losers:
jordan- i hope he makes it. I really like him, but he looked horrible on the 2 plays i saw him in last night.
simms- i think he will be fine as a backup, but lets hope we never find out either.
cj jones- he might be a PS, but thats it!

On Bubble:
mckinely will either make the team or the PS- probably the PS
Chad jackson- i think he will make the team. He impressed me most out of the "backup" wide outs.
Nate swift- did we draft him? If we didnt which i dont think we did, he is in trouble i think
fields, powell,thomas- they all make it..................................

work got in the way lost all train of thought.

I would think McKinley will be either here or gone. I can't see him sticking
around if the Broncos try to put him on the PS. Think Domenik Hixon.

Nonetheless, from McKinley's reported showing in camp, I really expect him to
be here in September.

The player with the most impact on the offense could be Hillis. I remember the
Jim Brown/Bobby Mitchell and John Riggins/Joe Washington tandems. Both
were just unstoppable. And now they have Moreno coming in (sometime this
decade, hopefully) and Buckhalter in tow. Makes me salivate, just thinking
about it. Are you listening, Josh McDaniels?

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

I think Hillis is going to be great, and he's going to force McDaniels a difficult position because he can do so many things. I wasn't really a Knowshon fan, and if Hillis continues to show what he can do I think Moreno might be really delegated to a part time role, which would suck considering his status but maybe we can get great value for him in a trade. I can't see him being happy here in a backup/part time role.

I would be surprised if Crowder and McKinley did not make the roster, and I would be very surprised if moss did.

I still don't understand the Ayers situation. He isn't playing DE in the 3-4 is he? That totally contrasts what a 3-4 LB is.

[topscribe]

I think Hillis is going to be great, and he's going to force McDaniels a difficult position because he can do so many things. I wasn't really a Knowshon fan, and if Hillis continues to show what he can do I think Moreno might be really delegated to a part time role, which would suck considering his status but maybe we can get great value for him in a trade. I can't see him being happy here in a backup/part time role.

I would be surprised if Crowder and McKinley did not make the roster, and I would be very surprised if moss did.

I still don't understand the Ayers situation. He isn't playing DE in the 3-4 is he? That totally contrasts what a 3-4 LB is.

I would think Ayers is way too light, and too athletic, to waste away tying up
blockers on the DL. Especially now that they have Thomas working out at DE,
where I think Thomas will shine, LB seems to become a greater need for the
presence of a "star." Crowder and Dumervil are doing well, but whereas
Crowder is appearing to be "good," I don't see him as good as Ayers can be.
Dumervil is the best pass rusher on the squad, but he has been marginal in
defending the run, so he likely will be situational. So I see Ayers at LB, don't
you?

-----

[broncofaninfla]

I think Hillis is going to be great, and he's going to force McDaniels a difficult position because he can do so many things. I wasn't really a Knowshon fan, and if Hillis continues to show what he can do I think Moreno might be really delegated to a part time role, which would suck considering his status but maybe we can get great value for him in a trade. I can't see him being happy here in a backup/part time role.

I would be surprised if Crowder and McKinley did not make the roster, and I would be very surprised if moss did.

I still don't understand the Ayers situation. He isn't playing DE in the 3-4 is he? That totally contrasts what a 3-4 LB is.

I think Ayers is penciled in as a OLB BUT I sure hope he can be an impact DE for us. Sounds like we still need help on the DL....

[muse]

I think Ayers will play DE in 4-3 or quasi 4-3 packages (ie with a 2-5 front).

[Lonestar]

I think Ayers is penciled in as a OLB BUT I sure hope he can be an impact DE for us. Sounds like we still need help on the DL....

I suspect we will see him as the DE/OLB that has his hand in the dirt one play and in zone the next..

he is supposed to be a superb player and given good coaching unlike the past few years will become a very good OLB alot like the McGinest type of headache, teams playing NE had for a LOOOONG time..

[LRtagger]

I think Ayers will play DE in 4-3 or quasi 4-3 packages (ie with a 2-5 front).

^^^This

I expect to see a lot of the 2-5 look on passing downs...this in reality equates to a 4-3, but your edge rushers are standing instead of down - essentially it is the same thing.

I think some people have mentioned already seeing this formation in camp...along with the 2-4 nickle package which also showcases WW or Barrett at one of the two inside LB spots.

It should be interesting to watch!

[broncofaninfla]

I know it's early but is anybody else nervous about the Camp reports on Simms?

[CoachChaz]

I know it's early but is anybody else nervous about the Camp reports on Simms?

Only if Orton goes down

[broncofaninfla]

I'd sure feel better if we had another vet in camp competing right now.

[nevcraw]

I think Hillis is going to be great, and he's going to force McDaniels a difficult position because he can do so many things. I wasn't really a Knowshon fan, and if Hillis continues to show what he can do I think Moreno might be really delegated to a part time role, which would suck considering his status but maybe we can get great value for him in a trade. I can't see him being happy here in a backup/part time role.

This is win all around as long as Moreno can live up to the billing.. Teams are not doing the 1 back thing anymore, and I am sure RB's are seeing the positives for the "2 headed Moster" approach as well by having a longer career and fresher legs dtuing the second half of games and season..
IF moreno is as good as people think he and Hillis could be a scary scary team. The only negative would be come contract time for Hillis - paying him what he's worth (but having to tie up that much $$ oon RB) - Would be a good problem to have...

[broncofaninfla]

Has anybody heard any postive reports on TE Quinn? Everything I've read seems to points towards him not being the blocker he was built up to be.

[elsid13]

Only if Orton goes down

*EDIT*

I think he already has.

[claymore]

I think Hillis is going to be great, and he's going to force McDaniels a difficult position because he can do so many things. I wasn't really a Knowshon fan, and if Hillis continues to show what he can do I think Moreno might be really delegated to a part time role, which would suck considering his status but maybe we can get great value for him in a trade. I can't see him being happy here in a backup/part time role.

I would be surprised if Crowder and McKinley did not make the roster, and I would be very surprised if moss did.

I still don't understand the Ayers situation. He isn't playing DE in the 3-4 is he? That totally contrasts what a 3-4 LB is.

Hillis will NEVER be our starting HB. 2-3 RB's will have to go down before that happens.

[silkamilkamonico]

Hillis will NEVER be our starting HB. 2-3 RB's will have to go down before that happens.

Not real sure if that's a coaches decision or what. Buckhalter is looking good, but Jordan hasn't even looked like a quality backup, and if a guy like Hillis is going to give you 5 yards a pop and dish out some headaches I'm all for it. I think we're in trouble as far as depth is concerned if Darius Walker makes the team.

I'm not very enamored with Knowshon anyways, but if he proves me wrong I'm all for that too.

[Northman]

I know it's early but is anybody else nervous about the Camp reports on Simms?

Not really. Orton is the starter so i didnt expect much from Simms or the rookie.

[Northman]

Has anybody heard any postive reports on TE Quinn? Everything I've read seems to points towards him not being the blocker he was built up to be.

Ive heard Quinn has been quite good. Still think we took him too high but if he pans out the way McD believes he will than it will be worth it i guess.

[Lonestar]

Hillis will NEVER be our starting HB. 2-3 RB's will have to go down before that happens.


I do not agree .. if you look back at NE and their game plans and rushing leaders only 2 maybe 3 years out of 8-9 years do they have a stud buffalo like we used to have.. since Bill came to town..

they seemed to have really liked to have 2-3 runners share the yardage/carries/snaps..

most of that time with the top dog getting 800-900 yards and the nest couple getting 350-600..

when they brought in the big gun dillon as a FA and then when they drafted the hotshot malroney it blipped.. but even last year when they got more diversified when Cassell subbed it did not get crazy with one runner..

2008 727-507-363-275-93 with their top RBs
2007 835-384-265-121
2006 812-745-123-117-22
2005 733-245-192-145-59

It has not been in the NE Playbook to run one player into the ground.. Unless something snaps in Josh's mind I see the same thing 900-600-400 as goals for the top few running backs..

why Hillis would not be one of those top two considering moron Moreno is not even in camp yet is beyond my comprehension.. he can do it all run, block, and mike even said he had the best hands on the team last year..

I see no reason other than injury to keep him off the field and not get a lot of snaps.. and last year was at best a fluke injury.. this is one tough dude..

[broncofaninfla]

The longer "No show" stays away, the more convinced I become that Hillis will be the most valuable player in our backfield this season.

[claymore]

Not real sure if that's a coaches decision or what. Buckhalter is looking good, but Jordan hasn't even looked like a quality backup, and if a guy like Hillis is going to give you 5 yards a pop and dish out some headaches I'm all for it. I think we're in trouble as far as depth is concerned if Darius Walker makes the team.

I'm not very enamored with Knowshon anyways, but if he proves me wrong I'm all for that too.

I just think he has injury concerns being a fulltime RB, and is to valuable at FB to risk it.

[claymore]

I do not agree .. if you look back at NE and their game plans and rushing leaders only 2 maybe 3 years out of 8-9 years do they have a stud buffalo like we used to have.. since Bill came to town..

they seemed to have really liked to have 2-3 runners share the yardage/carries/snaps..

most of that time with the top dog getting 800-900 yards and the nest couple getting 350-600..

when they brought in the big gun dillon as a FA and then when they drafted the hotshot malroney it blipped.. but even last year when they got more diversified when Cassell subbed it did not get crazy with one runner..

2008 727-507-363-275-93 with their top RBs
2007 835-384-265-121
2006 812-745-123-117-22
2005 733-245-192-145-59

It has not been in the NE Playbook to run one player into the ground.. Unless something snaps in Josh's mind I see the same thing 900-600-400 as goals for the top few running backs..

why Hillis would not be one of those top two considering moron Moreno is not even in camp yet is beyond my comprehension.. he can do it all run, block, and mike even said he had the best hands on the team last year..

I see no reason other than injury to keep him off the field and not get a lot of snaps.. and last year was at best a fluke injury.. this is one tough dude..

It wasnt a fluke injury, it was a real injury that happened. I would be shocked if he was our #1 RB coming into game one.

[atwater27]

Christ, even with a new coach we will still have a RBBC.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with sharing the rock, it just hurts my fantasy football odds of picking a Denver running back for oh say the last 4 years.

[Mike]

I just think he has injury concerns being a fulltime RB, and is to valuable at FB to risk it.

I doubt he will be the fulltime HB. However, after hearing about his camp so far, I fully expect him to be utilized many different ways to get him the ball. In other words, while he won't be the starting HB, I think he will be more than just the FB.

[claymore]

I doubt he will be the fulltime HB. However, after hearing about his camp so far, I fully expect him to be utilized many different ways to get him the ball. In other words, while he won't be the starting HB, I think he will be more than just the FB.

Thats what I see, I wouldnt be surprised if he has 40 receptions this year. Hopefully Knowson's deal gets done SOON so they can start working together.

[TXBRONC]

I doubt he will be the fulltime HB. However, after hearing about his camp so far, I fully expect him to be utilized many different ways to get him the ball. In other words, while he won't be the starting HB, I think he will be more than just the FB.

He's way to versatile not to have him on the field as much as possible.

[Lonestar]

The longer "No show Morono" stays away, the more convinced I become that Hillis will be the most valuable player in our backfield this season.



edited for accuracy..:salute:

[Lonestar]

I just think he has injury concerns being a fulltime RB, and is to valuable at FB to risk it.

he does not IIRC have an injury issue he had a fluke injury last year coming down on the leg the way he did.. and tearing the hamstring and holding on tot eh ball.. well color that tough guy..



While I did not follow him in college he was a blocking machine for mcfadden and the Jones both first rounders in last years draft.. and do not recall of any injuries in college..

[claymore]

he does not IIRC have an injury issue he had a fluke injury last year coming down on the leg the way he did.. and tearing the hamstring and holding on tot eh ball.. well color that tough guy..



While I did not follow him in college he was a blocking machine for mcfadden and the Jones both first rounders in last years draft.. and do not recall of any injuries in college..

He didnt have any injuries in College because he blocked, and I dont know what IIRC means. :D

[Lonestar]

Christ, even with a new coach we will still have a RBBC.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with sharing the rock, it just hurts my fantasy football odds of picking a Denver running back for oh say the last 4 years.


why are almost all teams going to multiple RB's it is more effective and cuts down on wear and tear.. the defenses have a really tough time keying on one person..

unless we have another TD, LT, AP in morono I see the snaps split into 3rds at the best if not in 4ths


sorry if you will have to draft a RB elsewhere but this is a sign of the times..

[Lonestar]

He didnt have any injuries in College because he blocked, and I dont know what IIRC means. :D

If I Remember Correctly

did you think that blocking is any less wear and tear on the body? if anything it can be more as your taking on BIGGER defenders Every time the ball is snapped..

[claymore]

If I Remember Correctly

did you think that blocking is any less wear and tear on the body? if anything it can be more as your taking on BIGGER defenders Every time the ball is snapped..

Yes I do believe that. Im sure the life span of a FB is much greater than the 3 year lifespan of a RB.

[Lonestar]

Yes I do believe that. Im sure the life span of a FB is much greater than the 3 year lifespan of a RB.



all the more reason to RBBC.. and you also have to remember that went eh FB is on the field he is getting hit or hitting someone on almost every rushing play.. and if he does his job right the RB does not get touched.. or it is a flyweight DB doing the tackle instead of a mean and nasty LB or DE..

[broncofaninfla]

I read that Spencer Larsen looked great this morning, was in on most tackles.
Also read Moss made a respectable showing this morning as well.
Sounds like Ayers is still a little lost but shows promise.

[atwater27]

While I did not follow him in college he was a blocking machine for mcfadden and the Jones both first rounders in last years draft.. and do not recall of any injuries in college..

I just can't believe how ridiculously talented their backfield was. Good GOD!!!

[Lonestar]

I just can't believe how ridiculously talented their backfield was. Good GOD!!!
:salute:

Hillis was recruited to be THE running back then they brought in Mcfadden and Jones one only wonders why he was moved to FB..

[EMB6903]

edited for accuracy..:salute:



you gotta understand that its mostly the agent/FO to blame over the player not arriving at camp at time.

you act like Moreno knows what the #12th overall pick is actually worth.... and what type of contract he deserves... I doubt thats the case... hes just trusting the agent he hired to do his job, thats all...

Moreno is going to be a Bronco for atleast 4 years barring a trade... dont act like missing a couple training camp practices is going to be that big of deal... esspecially for a RB

[EMB6903]

I just can't believe how ridiculously talented their backfield was. Good GOD!!!

ya the funny thing about that is the one that was the most hyped might be the worst of the 3 in the pros....

Its definately a different game played at a much different speed

[Lonestar]

lmao!


I love the fans that dont understand the business side of the game

the fans that dont understand that its mostly the agent/FO to blame over the player not arriving at camp at time.

you act like Moreno knows what the #12th overall pick is actually worth.... and what type of contract he deserves... I doubt thats the case... hes just trusting the agent he hired to do his job, thats all...

Moreno is going to be a Bronco for atleast 4 years regardless of a trade... dont act like missing a couple training camp practices is going to be that big of deal... esspecially for a RB


as a business owner I am acutely aware about/of said things.. can't count the number of union contracts I've been involved in getting done.. and how many strikes that were called and then settled for LESS money than was originally on the table..

all the say is in the players mouth all he has to do is tel him to get it done by the beginning of training camp as I do not want to miss it it is to important to miss..

while he is going to be around for 4 years he is indeed screwing up and chance to start day one.. and any incentives that may be drawn into the contract..

so he could be giving up and a million dollar ROY incentive because they are off 200K in the total package..

I once had group that was on strike for 4 weeks that went back to work after giving back a Quarter an hour that was on the first proposal.. how many years would it take to make back .25 per hour if your out of work and no income.. in this case they LOST a Quarter and hour and missed 4 weeks of time.. while they pounded the pavement in most cases our customer being management types flocked to our counters and even some of the customers of the competition returned their cars and rented from us instead when they saw what was going on..

IMO about 90% of the issues is in the heads of the player.. who have been coddled and ego stroked since 5th grade about how good they are and how much money they are gonna make in the NFL.. and agent feed that ego and lie to them, knowing all the while there is very little wiggle room over what the guy got last year..


sorry h is amoron for not being there and allowing others to take snaps from him.. making them all that much better and placing that much farther behind..

[Superchop 7]

Hillis adds a dimension to the FB position that other teams don't have.

The defense "has" to account for him.

It is in the teams best interest to leave him at FB.

What would make this a complete nightmare for a d-co-ordinator would be an extremely mobile QB.