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Mike
10-30-2007, 01:28 PM
Shanahan losing his play-calling nerve
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 10/30/2007 12:58:59 AM MDT

In the NFL, the red zone is where coaches earn their money.

After all these years with the Broncos, is coach Mike Shanahan bankrupt of new ideas?

On a Monday night when the whole country saw our local heroes are not ready for prime time, Denver lost to Green Bay 19-13 on such a heart-stopping touchdown pass in overtime by Packers legend Brett Favre that it felt like sudden death for any dreams of a Super Bowl that had been entertained by Broncomaniacs.

"It's a tough one to lose," Shanahan said.

But the truth is: With Denver trailing by three points and a golden opportunity to win the game in the final seconds of regulation, Shanahan lost his nerve.

That's not the innovative, gutsy Denver coach we remember as brighter than the diamonds in a championship ring.

The creeping middle-age conservatism in Shanahan is causing Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler to lose his faith, not to mention his temper.

Cutler groused he is being asked way too often why this Denver red-zone offense too often plays out like a meek game of Mother, may I?

"We talk about this every week," a grumpy Cutler complained.

Can't blame the guy for being ticked. Nothing ever changes.

Rather than place the game in the strong arm of Cutler on third down with the football resting at the 4-yard line and 22 seconds showing on the scoreboard clock, Shanahan called a conservative quarterback draw, hoping to fool the Packers' defense.

It was a play that might have worked 15 years ago, when John Elway was quarterback of the Broncos.

But anyone who believes that asking Cutler to imitate the legendary No. 7 is unfair had to be offended at the decision.

Cutler should have been given the run/pass option that a rollout play would have allowed.

Instead, the draw play left the young quarterback with nowhere to run or hide, and Cutler stumbled, failing to gain so much as a yard.

So Denver place-kicker Jason Elam and his Keystone Cops were forced to scurry helter-skelter and boot a field goal that meekly tied the game at 13-13on the final play of regulation.

The Broncos never saw the football again, with Favre adding a fresh coat of bronze on the statue that awaits him in Canton, by firing an 82-yard TD strike to Greg Jennings on the first snap of overtime.

Denver cornerback Dré Bly admitted he never saw the lightning bolt from the gray-bearded NFL god that hit him. Old Favre remains so stupid good, the veteran can make even a shutdown corner look like an oxymoron.

"Anytime you're 1-4 in the red zone against a team that's 5-1 and playing pretty well, it's hard to win those types of football games," said Shanahan, now coaching as if he does not completely trust his players.

With 8 minutes, 25 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and Denver behind 13-10, the Broncos faced a fourth down at Green Bay's 37-yard line, needing to gain six to keep the drive alive.

Remember when Shanahan had the offensive weapons and gambling spirit that made defenses sweat in precisely such tense situations?

"The wind was blowing, and it's a 55-yard (field goal)," explained Shanahan, "and I'm saying, 'Hey, that's when the percentages are going the other way."'

So he punted.

Shanahan, once the most fearless offensive genius in the game, did not even consider letting his quarterback throw the football on fourth down.

That's sad. The Broncos have become the same play-the-percentages, hope-and-pray, no-risk, no-reward team that makes parity just another word for mediocrity in the language of the NFL.

With leading receiver Javon Walker and top rusher Travis Henry both injured, Shanahan wore a bad poker face on national TV. Every time he inspected his offensive options, the coach looked like he wanted to fold his play card. And rip it to shreds. And stomp on it.

With a record of 3-4 and a tough road ahead, the Broncos can no longer play it safe.

This is a Denver team that's going to tax all the gray matter in Shanahan's beautiful football mind merely to avoid the red-faced embarrassment of a lost season.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7317484

SBboundBRONCOS
10-30-2007, 01:48 PM
honestly i think he has, i have yet to see a bomb this year and that is starting to worry me, i mean even if we went for it to keep the D honest but we are not even trying

Lonestar
10-30-2007, 01:48 PM
good find while I rarely agree with kizla he seems to be pretty close on point here.

Frankly I'm not so sure how many more times this deck can be reshuffled.

With so many injuries that have happened perhaps it is now time for us to play the hell out of the back up and see if they can learn from the time on the field and see if they can handle it for the future..

Or whether it is wholesale house cleaning time..

broncosfanscott
10-30-2007, 09:01 PM
honestly i think he has, i have yet to see a bomb this year and that is starting to worry me, i mean even if we went for it to keep the D honest but we are not even trying

I am waiting myself. I know Walker is out, yet could we go deep to Marshall every now and then. I mean the only deep play I know was last week against the Steelers and it was picked off in the endzone. At least keeping opposing defenses in check with the threat of a deep throw would be nice.

TXBRONC
10-30-2007, 09:12 PM
I am waiting myself. I know Walker is out, yet could we go deep to Marshall every now and then. I mean the only deep play I know was last week against the Steelers and it was picked off in the end zone. At least keeping opposing defenses in check with the threat of a deep throw would be nice.

Jay has gone deep to Marshall on few occasions. I'm fairly sure that Jay's longest completion of the eye (49 yards) was to Marshall in the games against the Jaguars.

SBboundBRONCOS
10-30-2007, 10:24 PM
Jay has gone deep to Marshall on few occasions. I'm fairly sure that Jay's longest completion of the eye (49 yards) was to Marshall in the games against the Jaguars.

yeah but i want a 49 yarder for a TD :rockon:

omac
10-30-2007, 11:09 PM
I don't totally disagree with the article, as it has some good points. The only thing I don't like about the writer is how he subtly tries to pass his own his views as Shanahans .....


"Anytime you're 1-4 in the red zone against a team that's 5-1 and playing pretty well, it's hard to win those types of football games," said Shanahan, now coaching as if he does not completely trust his players.

The statement Shannahan made doesn't come anywhere close to implying that Shanahan doesn't trust his players. It was a bad attempt at trying to use a quote to further solidify the concept of his article.

That and his "sin of ommision". He states ...


With 8 minutes, 25 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and Denver behind 13-10, the Broncos faced a fourth down at Green Bay's 37-yard line, needing to gain six to keep the drive alive.

Remember when Shanahan had the offensive weapons and gambling spirit that made defenses sweat in precisely such tense situations?

"The wind was blowing, and it's a 55-yard (field goal)," explained Shanahan, "and I'm saying, 'Hey, that's when the percentages are going the other way."'

So he punted.

Shanahan, once the most fearless offensive genius in the game, did not even consider letting his quarterback throw the football on fourth down.

Too bad he didn't mention the Jaguars game, where we were left with poor field possition at 4th down, yet he elected to go for a first down, despite it not being a high percentage play. Ofcourse, when it didn't succeed, everyone questioned the call.

Let's also forget the running, last second field goal call to win against Buffalo.

Or the quarterback option, with the lateral to Travis Henry.

Whatever, no need to let facts get in the way of his point. :D

omac
10-30-2007, 11:17 PM
The creeping middle-age conservatism in Shanahan is causing Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler to lose his faith, not to mention his temper.

Cutler groused he is being asked way too often why this Denver red-zone offense too often plays out like a meek game of Mother, may I?

"We talk about this every week," a grumpy Cutler complained.

Can't blame the guy for being ticked. Nothing ever changes.

Is Cutler saying that he responds to that question by reporters every week, or is he saying he talks to his coach about that every week? We don't even know if Cutler's "grumpy" because of the question, the playcalling, or just losing the game.

It's a pretty vague statement, yet the writer assumes a whole lot of stuff with it. Notice how he sandwiches that into his paragraphs to make it sound like Cutler is complaining about Shanahan's playcalling.

It's almost tabloid journalism. :D

omac
10-30-2007, 11:23 PM
Here's 2 other scenarios, each with their own spin ....

If the Broncos had gone for a risky pass play and it was intercepted, we'd hear "why didn't Shanny go for the field goal and bring the game to overtime?"

If the Broncos won the coin toss and scored on the ensuing possesion, we'd hear, "Shanny put the Broncos in a possition to win the game at overtime."

Truth is, it was a close game that could've gone either way, and the coach is an idiot when his call fail, and is a genius when those same calls succeed.

sneakers
10-30-2007, 11:30 PM
I agree with punting it rather than a 55-yard field goal. But if we were going for points I don't know if I would rather have them go for it on 4th and 6, or kick the field goal. :confused:

sneakers
10-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Here's 2 other scenarios, each with their own spin ....

If the Broncos had gone for a risky pass play and it was intercepted, we'd hear "why didn't Shanny go for the field goal and bring the game to overtime?"

If the Broncos won the coin toss and scored on the ensuing possesion, we'd hear, "Shanny put the Broncos in a possition to win the game at overtime."

Truth is, it was a close game that could've gone either way, and the coach is an idiot when his call fail, and is a genius when those same calls succeed.

You're right, in an alternate universe, shanny could have made a different decision, and we would have all been calling him a genius.

speardog
10-31-2007, 04:34 AM
I think the article is a load of second guessing crap. Shanny knows he has a very young, inexperienced QB and he is protecting the QB, which Cutler needs because Jay is daring with his throws and he will throw ints.

Red zone execution is also the hardest thing for a QB to master because all your windows get smaller.

The funny thing is when Cutler gets more experience all of a sudden people will think Shanny is a genius.

Den21vsBal19
10-31-2007, 08:39 AM
I've got to admit that 4th & 6 bugged me, although I didn't realise it would have been into the wind..................

Surely it would have been a 'bunch' type formation and put it into the endzone for the likes of Marshall to fight for?

And what would have been wrong with a fade to Marshall/Sheff on that 3rd & 1? Put it on the back pylon, and high enough that unless they get it it's incomplete and we take a relaxed FG?

Y'know, for all the talk of dumbing things down for Jake, and opening the playbook up for Jay, I don't see a lot of evidence of it, we're pretty well running the same plays, maybe from different formations, but a similar ethic.........

Medford Bronco
10-31-2007, 09:00 AM
I've got to admit that 4th & 6 bugged me, although I didn't realise it would have been into the wind..................

Surely it would have been a 'bunch' type formation and put it into the endzone for the likes of Marshall to fight for?

And what would have been wrong with a fade to Marshall/Sheff on that 3rd & 1? Put it on the back pylon, and high enough that unless they get it it's incomplete and we take a relaxed FG?

Y'know, for all the talk of dumbing things down for Jake, and opening the playbook up for Jay, I don't see a lot of evidence of it, we're pretty well running the same plays, maybe from different formations, but a similar ethic.........


I just do not understand the call on the goal line

why not run a crossing pattern into the End Zone to see if someone opens up, if not then air mail it to the stands.

I was poed for sure :mad:

have some guts. its not like Cutler is Trent Dilfer or something

Retired_Member_001
10-31-2007, 11:29 AM
We could get just about any coach in the NFL, we have a history of winning and a good owner.

I say we go looking for a new head coach. Yes I mean it, minus the last second timeout against Oakland, we haven't seen true magic from Mike Shanahan this season. All we have seen is poor play calling.

Despite not being the official GM he has more of a say in things than anyone else, and his decision making in FA, Draft and so on SUCKS. I bet you another head coach would make better decisions.

Mike Shanahan = Mastermind?

More like Mike Shanahan = Couldbeblind.

Mike
10-31-2007, 11:39 AM
We could get just about any coach in the NFL, we have a history of winning and a good owner.

I say we go looking for a new head coach. Yes I mean it, minus the last second timeout against Oakland, we haven't seen true magic from Mike Shanahan this season. All we have seen is poor play calling.

Despite not being the official GM he has more of a say in things than anyone else, and his decision making in FA, Draft and so on SUCKS. I bet you another head coach would make better decisions.

Mike Shanahan = Mastermind?

More like Mike Shanahan = Couldbeblind.

Let's not get crazy.

Mike Shanahan is still one of, if not the, best X's and O's coach out there. He is still one of the best coaches out there.

Like I said in another thread. His problem is that he has surrounded himself with crap for assistants...Dinger and Dennison in particular. I would rather bring in new assistants than see Shanahan go.

I would also like to see him relinquish his personnel decision authority.

Lonestar
10-31-2007, 11:50 AM
Let's not get crazy.

Mike Shanahan is still one of, if not the, best X's and O's coach out there. He is still one of the best coaches out there.

Like I said in another thread. His problem is that he has surrounded himself with crap for assistants...Dinger and Dennison in particular. I would rather bring in new assistants than see Shanahan go.

I would also like to see him relinquish his personnel decision authority.

Lets make that FINAL personnel decision authority.

I am beginning to believe your correct about Assistant coaching but remember while there may be a lot of talking to the coaches about personnel he is the final say and even in the play calling I think the BUCK still stops in mikey-ville before it goes to the QB's headset.
Even if someone is calling something from above mikey is till the X $ O guy that call into Jay.

So they may be making the correct call and being overridden on the calls.

WE will never know.

I do know that since Kubes left things are much different in play calling..

Was he really making the calls? Did he have a great relationship with Jake?

Did humdinger try to have that with Jake or did he just move on to Jay?
Does humdinger draft the game plan and call the game from above?

many questions, so much speculation and no way to know for sure..

broncofanatic1987
10-31-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm not a big fan of Shanahan's play calling. He should have called for a pass to either Marshall or Scheffler in the back of the end zone.

I don't think it's time for him to be fired. He's not going to give up his control of the personnel decisions. The moment he is asked to do that, he will likely resign.

This last loss was more about bad defense than bad play calling. We can only hope that the Broncos get a high draft position and can pick from the cream of the crop in 2008. I would like to see them draft some offensive linemen in the first or second round. Guys who can just line up and push defenders off the line of scrimmage. That probably won't happen but it would sure be nice. Obviously getting some defensive tackles would be a good thing. Perhaps a linebacker or two is in order. A safety would be nice. We definitely need a safety considering the fact that when Lynch gets hurt, they turn to Foxworth rather than Abdullah or Cox.

Getting back to the play calling, I would like Shanahan to open up the playbook and let the offense take chances. The defense is so weak that the offense has to be aggressive to even have a chance. Let Cutler grow by putting faith in his abilities and letting him have faith in his abilities and those of his teammates.

Den21vsBal19
10-31-2007, 12:19 PM
I just do not understand the call on the goal line

why not run a crossing pattern into the End Zone to see if someone opens up, if not then air mail it to the stands.

I was poed for sure :mad:

have some guts. its not like Cutler is Trent Dilfer or something

POed?!?!??! :eek:


I got a rollicking off the missus for screaming WHAT THE HECK!!!!! (or words to that effect ;)) at the TV at 3am :laugh:

Requiem / The Dagda
10-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Shanahan's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Perhaps it comes down to better execution of the plays called, rather than the assumption that poor ones are being called.

Retired_Member_001
10-31-2007, 01:28 PM
Let's not get crazy.

Mike Shanahan is still one of, if not the, best X's and O's coach out there. He is still one of the best coaches out there.

Like I said in another thread. His problem is that he has surrounded himself with crap for assistants...Dinger and Dennison in particular. I would rather bring in new assistants than see Shanahan go.

I would also like to see him relinquish his personnel decision authority.

I'm sorry but I just can't help thinking that.

Shanahan WAS an amazing coach. I have doubts whether this greatness hasn't dissapeared from him or something.

It was a crazy idea, but I can't help thinking it.

Mike
10-31-2007, 01:36 PM
Shanahan's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Perhaps it comes down to better execution of the plays called, rather than the assumption that poor ones are being called.

Good execution from the 20 to the red-zone...they just can't execute once they get inside the red-zone? :confused:

You may be right and execution might play a part, but I believe that play-calling is the key problem in the red-zone.


I'm sorry but I just can't help thinking that.

Shanahan WAS an amazing coach. I have doubts whether this greatness hasn't dissapeared from him or something.

It was a crazy idea, but I can't help thinking it.

I understand your argument. The case can be made. So I won't belittle it.

Consider this though:
Who would you choose to replace him?
Bringing in a new headcoach will most certainly result in a change of system/style which ultimately result in a few losing seasons. Are you ready for that?

Like I said, you have an argument...I don't think you are crazy. I would just like to see the team bring in fresh minds as assistants and address the personnel decision problem before losing Shanahan.

eessydo
10-31-2007, 01:46 PM
Shanahan losing his play-calling nerve

That's not the innovative, gutsy Denver coach we remember as brighter than the diamonds in a championship ring.

The creeping middle-age conservatism in Shanahan is causing Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler to lose his faith, not to mention his temper......


Rather than place the game in the strong arm of Cutler on third down with the football resting at the 4-yard line and 22 seconds showing on the scoreboard clock, Shanahan called a conservative quarterback draw, hoping to fool the Packers' defense.

This seems so contradictory to me, first he calls the play calling conservative, then he states that Shanahan was trying to catch the defense off guard with the play he called. So which is it? Is it vanilla, or is it a play that over 99% of the head coaches in this league would not call in that situation, I say it is the latter.

Unfortunately it was not well executed by Cutler. If it really was a draw, it didn't look like one, he looked lost and uncomfortable running that play. That is the life of a team with a QB with less than one full season under his belt.

Hopefully that play can be analyzed by Shanahan and his young QB, and in the future they can give Cutler a few options for checkdown plays depending on what the defense is showing.

Had Cutler scored, people would be raving about what a genius Shanahan is and the guts he had to spread the defense out and call a draw on an obvious passing down. This writer sucks as he really is just trying to incite a fan riot. I can't believe someone in editing read this crap and passed it off to the print room as a viable opinion that is "fit to print." He trips all over himself and omits truth to custom mold to his negative opinion.

eessydo
10-31-2007, 02:06 PM
I am waiting myself. I know Walker is out, yet could we go deep to Marshall every now and then. I mean the only deep play I know was last week against the Steelers and it was picked off in the endzone. At least keeping opposing defenses in check with the threat of a deep throw would be nice.

I would also like to dispel this myth that we are not extending the field with our passing game. We currently average 11.8 YPP which puts us tied for 9th in the league. We are tied for 13th for plays over 20+ yards, which happens to be the mean for this statistic so we are roughly average here, and we have 1 play for over 40+ yards this year.

We have never truly had a vertical passing game. As I am sure everyone knows by now, Shanahan game of the Bill Walsh tree, otherwise known as the "west coast offense" tree. Controlled passing game with a few calculated strikes down field, which is exactly what we have done to the tune of 11.8 YPP.

Now how much of that is YAC, couldn't find that statistic, but who really cares. We have a quality passing game at 238.6 per game being executed by a QB who has not even played a full season of games. Besides, I have see a couple of deep balls by Cutler this year and they tend to be into double and triple teams. He has yet to truly read the safety in coverage and I think that Shanahan will cut him loose when he can identify that issue.

Lonestar
10-31-2007, 05:15 PM
I would also like to dispel this myth that we are not extending the field with our passing game. We currently average 11.8 YPP which puts us tied for 9th in the league. We are tied for 13th for plays over 20+ yards, which happens to be the mean for this statistic so we are roughly average here, and we have 1 play for over 40+ yards this year.

We have never truly had a vertical passing game. As I am sure everyone knows by now, Shanahan game of the Bill Walsh tree, otherwise known as the "west coast offense" tree. Controlled passing game with a few calculated strikes down field, which is exactly what we have done to the tune of 11.8 YPP.

Now how much of that is YAC, couldn't find that statistic, but who really cares. We have a quality passing game at 238.6 per game being executed by a QB who has not even played a full season of games. Besides, I have see a couple of deep balls by Cutler this year and they tend to be into double and triple teams. He has yet to truly read the safety in coverage and I think that Shanahan will cut him loose when he can identify that issue.


You can find YAC here it is the hard way but better than nothing 765 this year out of 1670 total passing yards.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/broncos/

Almost half of Marshalls yards are YAC 223 of 513

omac
10-31-2007, 08:32 PM
You can find YAC here it is the hard way but better than nothing 765 this year out of 1670 total passing yards.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/broncos/

Almost half of Marshalls yards are YAC 223 of 513

Very nice research. :salute:

I wonder why they aren't throwing deep more often? Brandon Marshall's a pretty big guy for a WR, so maybe he doesn't have great separation speed?

dogfish
10-31-2007, 08:43 PM
Too bad he didn't mention the Jaguars game, where we were left with poor field possition at 4th down, yet he elected to go for a first down, despite it not being a high percentage play. Ofcourse, when it didn't succeed, everyone questioned the call.

Let's also forget the running, last second field goal call to win against Buffalo.

Or the quarterback option, with the lateral to Travis Henry.

Whatever, no need to let facts get in the way of his point. :D


my thoughts exactly. . . no matter WHAT he calls, armchair generals and second-guessers will gripe about it if it doesn't work-- and praise the exact same call if it does. . .


*shakes head*



this debate may be legit, but kiszla is still a moron-- he probably wouldn't even know which team had the ball if the guy sitting next to him didn't tell him. . . .

Lonestar
10-31-2007, 08:55 PM
Very nice research. :salute:

I wonder why they aren't throwing deep more often? Brandon Marshall's a pretty big guy for a WR, so maybe he doesn't have great separation speed?


somebody that big can make his own separation IMO. Let him go down field and go up for a ball I'll take my chances with someone 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter almost every time. same goes for Scheffler..

Both under-utilized IMO..

topscribe
10-31-2007, 09:12 PM
Shanahan's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Perhaps it comes down to better execution of the plays called, rather than the assumption that poor ones are being called.

I got the impression on that play that Cutler is not all that free to check off
yet on a play. Yes, as Shanny said, the DBs were bracketed on safeties
outside. But two LBs were hunched over the DTs. An inside run wasn't going
anywhere . . . I don't care if we had Jim Brown in his prime in there. Cutler
had to be looking right at them. It might have been a good call, had the
defense aligned as expected, but they didn't. And there was no audible.

-----

omac
11-01-2007, 01:50 AM
somebody that big can make his own separation IMO. Let him go down field and go up for a ball I'll take my chances with someone 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter almost every time. same goes for Scheffler..

Both under-utilized IMO..

You're right, they are under-utilized considering their advantage in physical matchups.

They've been using Scheffler more as of late; his injuries really did slow down his progress this season.

One thing I've noticed with Marshall is that he hasn't gotten the veteran's knack of adjusting/fighting for the ball, or helping his QB. In that timing slant against the Colts (or was it Jaguars?) where Cutler's pass was intercepted, Mikey was giving him an earful for letting the defender get the inside possition; he didn't even fight the defender for the possesion, he just watched. In one of the recent games, Cutler had to release the ball pretty fast because of the pressure, and he put it in a spot behind towards the sideline where only Marshall had a chance at it. He didn't go for it; he wasn't even aware that Cutler needed help.

Marshall's great at receiving the ball, hanging on to the ball, keeping his feet inbouds, yards after reception. I just don't think Mikey's too confident yet with Marshall that if a deep ball's underthrown, that he could fight the defender for the ball, or at least prevent the interception.

Scheffler, though, will throw his body everywhere and fight for anything, which is probably why he's a favorite target for Jay.

Lonestar
11-01-2007, 01:52 AM
You're right, they are under-utilized considering their advantage in physical matchups.

They've been using Scheffler more as of late; his injuries really did slow down his progress this season.

One thing I've noticed with Marshall is that he hasn't gotten the veteran's knack of adjusting/fighting for the ball, or helping his QB. In that timing slant against the Colts (or was it Jaguars?) where Cutler's pass was intercepted, Mikey was giving him an earful for letting the defender get the inside possition; he didn't even fight the defender for the possesion, he just watched. In one of the recent games, Cutler had to release the ball pretty fast because of the pressure, and he put it in a spot behind towards the sideline where only Marshall had a chance at it. He didn't go for it; he wasn't even aware that Cutler needed help.

Marshall's great at receiving the ball, hanging on to the ball, keeping his feet inbouds, yards after reception. I just don't think Mikey's too confident yet with Marshall that if a deep ball's underthrown, that he could fight the defender for the ball, or at least prevent the interception.

Scheffler, though, will throw his body everywhere and fight for anything, which is probably why he's a favorite target for Jay.

Until Walker is back I'd like to see Scheffler split out wide and see if they put a CB on him..

omac
11-01-2007, 01:53 AM
my thoughts exactly. . . no matter WHAT he calls, armchair generals and second-guessers will gripe about it if it doesn't work-- and praise the exact same call if it does. . .


*shakes head*



this debate may be legit, but kiszla is still a moron-- he probably wouldn't even know which team had the ball if the guy sitting next to him didn't tell him. . . .

Yep, he shows no journalistic integrity, bordering on sensationalism. :D

omac
11-01-2007, 01:58 AM
Until Walker is back I'd like to see Scheffler split out wide and see if they put a CB on him..

That might not be a bad idea; I've noticed Mikey putting Selvin Young split wide a few times too, but he's not yet too good at catching the ball. Scheffler shouldn't be able to burn any corner, but he should get a good shot if Cutler throws it high towards the outside, where the defender can't reach it.

Retired_Member_001
11-01-2007, 06:28 AM
I understand your argument. The case can be made. So I won't belittle it.

Consider this though:
Who would you choose to replace him?


I can't answer that now. The only time I could answer that question is at the end of the season when we know who is available.



Bringing in a new headcoach will most certainly result in a change of system/style which ultimately result in a few losing seasons. Are you ready for that

Like I said, you have an argument...I don't think you are crazy. I would just like to see the team bring in fresh minds as assistants and address the personnel decision problem before losing Shanahan.

Not nessecaraly, if we got a good enough head coach then it doesn't mean we would have losing seasons before sucess. Look at what Mike Tomlin is doing in Pittsburgh in his rookie year, let alone his first year in Pittsburgh. Look at Wade Phillips in Dallas.

I say we should look at who is available, if we find a good head coach, then I would atleast consider making a change.

No disrespect to a legendry coach, Shanahan, but there is no doubt he is starting to lose it.

Tned
11-01-2007, 06:52 AM
Until Walker is back I'd like to see Scheffler split out wide and see if they put a CB on him..

Yea, what happened to the days of movement and misdirection? Get some formation shifts, where Scheffler motions out to the slot or even out wide.

I believe I remember correctly that they said on Monday night that Cutlers passer rating when out of the pocket was something like 137, highest in the leauge, when out of the pocket.

That sound familiar? Can anyone think of another QB that played for Denver who's first name started with Ja and who's QB rating and success was much better out of the pocket? This isn't rocket science, but the coaches seem to want to fight it.

This offense, with the tiny O-linemen, works much better when the QB gets out of the pocket on a consistant basis. This accomplishes several things.


It slows down the pass rush, because the ends have to protect the back side of the play on bootleg/rollouts.
Once you get the defense a little back on your heels, not knowing what the QB is going to do and starting to protect the 'back side', then the o-line is able to create more holes for the running plays.
When the holes start to open up for the running plays, stretch plays and off tackle, then the defense begins to overpursue the run on the play side, and the QB PA rollouts and RB cutbacks have an opportuntiy to make big plays on the back side.


The Broncos had success with this for years, and then last year with Heimerdinger and Dennison they almost completely threw this out the window, and the offense has now been in a 31 game slump, including both preseasons.

If they want to run a traditional offense, get a traditional offensive line. If they want to play with 5 TE's on the offensive line, then they need to get back to the movement and misdirection which has been what has worked with these tiny o-lines.

frenchfan
11-02-2007, 02:13 AM
Yea, what happened to the days of movement and misdirection? Get some formation shifts, where Scheffler motions out to the slot or even out wide.

I believe I remember correctly that they said on Monday night that Cutlers passer rating when out of the pocket was something like 137, highest in the leauge, when out of the pocket.

That sound familiar? Can anyone think of another QB that played for Denver who's first name started with Ja and who's QB rating and success was much better out of the pocket? This isn't rocket science, but the coaches seem to want to fight it.

This offense, with the tiny O-linemen, works much better when the QB gets out of the pocket on a consistant basis. This accomplishes several things.


It slows down the pass rush, because the ends have to protect the back side of the play on bootleg/rollouts.
Once you get the defense a little back on your heels, not knowing what the QB is going to do and starting to protect the 'back side', then the o-line is able to create more holes for the running plays.
When the holes start to open up for the running plays, stretch plays and off tackle, then the defense begins to overpursue the run on the play side, and the QB PA rollouts and RB cutbacks have an opportuntiy to make big plays on the back side.


The Broncos had success with this for years, and then last year with Heimerdinger and Dennison they almost completely threw this out the window, and the offense has now been in a 31 game slump, including both preseasons.

If they want to run a traditional offense, get a traditional offensive line. If they want to play with 5 TE's on the offensive line, then they need to get back to the movement and misdirection which has been what has worked with these tiny o-lines.Tned... I agree with you...

And you're right : Jay rating outside the pocket is 137 and the best in the league...
Against the PAcks, we started with bootlegs plays all the way... And it worked very well... Then, all of the sudden, we stopped it and came back to "classical" pocket throw... Result : 0-3 in the 2nd quarter !

Shanny is a great coach and make great game plans... But on game day, I don't think he is the best... Now, it's not all his fault...
Just think of the last pass of Jay that should have been a TD (Marshall was opened and the throw was awful !) and should have gave us the win... That was a great call... a very bad execution (blame on Cutler for being too confident about his arm on that one).
The next one was a total BS though... A QB draw !!!! :eek:
I would have let another chance to Jay with a pass...