Manning points finger at himself - Tebow blames others

[Broncos Mtnman]

Just one more reason why I love this guy and one more reason why I'm so happy that the Tebow circus has left town!!


Manning - ''At the end of the day, they're interceptions,'' Manning said. ''The quarterback signs the check on every ball he throws. There's an old saying that the most important part of every play is to possess the ball at the end of that play. That's the quarterback's job. I have to do a better job of that.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/peyton-manning-points-finger-himself-211310401--nfl.html


Tebow - And even though Tebow's first possession ended in a Jets field goal, it would/could/should have been more, thanks to Tebow badly underthrowing a wide-open Stephen Hill on a second-and-20 pass attempt. How open is Hill? Well, there's literally no one within five yards of him. And there's no defender within range of Tebow either. Your average guy at a tailgate could throw the ball 35 yards in the air and hit Hill for a touchdown. Tebow badly underthrew him and, as you can see in the reaction on the Jets "highlights" video at NFL.com, then frustratingly waved at Hill, instructing him that he should've come back to the ball. After the game, Tebow was asked about the throw and said it was "both" his fault for the underthrow and Hill's fault for not coming back to the ball.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19829971/tim-tebows-usually-frustration-free-armor-is-starting-to-crack

[NightTerror218]

I would not call that Tebow blaming anybody. He does what hes always does. Never takes sides and is always general. I have seen people mention that was not the easiest pass for tebow throwing across his body as he was on the move rolling out to the right (not his good side). He did not stop to set up and throw he was running and threw the ball. But i am not going to say that was Hills fault. Could Hill had made and adjustment and caught it probably. But Tebow really screwed the pooch on that throw. It was under thrown and should have been made. That bad pass was on tebow.

[nevcraw]

Yeah - Manning never yells at his receivers.. and yet another Tebow bashing thread = yawn!

[turftoad]

Yeah - Manning never yells at his receivers.. and yet another Tebow bashing thread = yawn!

Big diff. Manning has earned the right, Tebow? Not so much.

[silkamilkamonico]

Manning blames himself.
Tebow blames himself and others.
Cutler blames others.


Denver has made a consistent upgrade in this department at the qb position the last 5 years and its nice to see they finally seemed to get it right!

[topscribe]

Manning blames himself.
Tebow blames himself and others.
Cutler blames others.


Denver has made a consistent upgrade in this department at the qb position the last 5 years and its nice to see they finally seemed to get it right!
Cutler to Tebow is an upgrade? :tsk:
.

[Nomad]

What did Elway do!?! :lol:

[EMB6903]

Cutler to Tebow is an upgrade? :tsk:
.


An aging Manning is most definitely an upgrade to Jay Cutler in his prime.

[NightTerror218]

An aging Manning is most definitely an upgrade to Jay Cutler in his prime.

I think that will be seen this season with Culter. When we had him last he was a pro bowl QB with Marshall. I think he will top that season this year.

[Simple Jaded]

It was just a bad throw by Tebow, plain and simple, if you saw the replay then you saw that there wasn't any need to "throw it low and to the pylon" as Tebow explained. The throw was so bad that Hill didn't have a chance to adjust. Stephen Hill if you're smart you'll take this one on the chin because he's Tim Tebow and you're not. The last thing you wanna do is get sideways with millions of obscenely stupid and very vocal fans in your rookie season.

Tebow was throwing on the run to his off-hand but that distance was right in his wheelhouse and shoulda been an easy TD.......

[Bugs Baloney]

__________________________________________________ __________
"Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

Manning blames himself.
Tebow blames himself and others.
Cutler blames others.
__________________________________________________ __________


That is a pretty dead on analysis.

TBH, I haven't missed Cutless for a minute. What a first class whiner that guy is. :tsk:

[EMB6903]

I think that will be seen this season with Culter. When we had him last he was a pro bowl QB with Marshall. I think he will top that season this year.

aside from Mannings rookie year...

Jay Cutlers best year doesnt touch Mannings worst.

And the scary thing is Peyton is already back to his old self. Its amazing to think he has only been taken down or even touched 1 time so far this pre season. Hes shown great accuracy and poise in the pocket.

Mistakes will happen, esspecially being away from the game for 18 months, but so far...?

Hes looked great and is only going to get better.

[NightTerror218]

aside from Mannings rookie year...

Jay Cutlers best year doesnt touch Mannings worst.

And the scary thing is Peyton is already back to his old self. Its amazing to think he has only been taken down or even touched 1 time so far this pre season. Hes shown great accuracy and poise in the pocket.

Mistakes will happen, esspecially being away from the game for 18 months, but so far...?

Hes looked great and is only going to get better.

Yes he looks great. I do not think he is going to be the old manning but by far a bigger upgrade. I am just saying Culter is going to have a great season this year and pretty sure will make pro bowl.

[Simple Jaded]

Yes he looks great. I do not think he is going to be the old manning but by far a bigger upgrade. I am just saying Culter is going to have a great season this year and pretty sure will make pro bowl.

ProBowl in the NFC is a tall order, Brees and Rodgers are a given and MVP candidates.......

[NightTerror218]

ProBowl in the NFC is a tall order, Brees and Rodgers are a given and MVP candidates.......

Given 1 great NFC QB will be in superbowl. He could beat out stafford who is wayyyy better then Newton.

[MOtorboat]

Here's the thing about that play. There was NO reason for Tebow to start moving to his right. None. There wasn't any pressure up the middle or from the left, so there was zero reason for him to get antsy. Yet he did. And that's why that throw was bad. Because his footwork is poor, his timing in the pocket is pathetic and he can't read the field.

[Simple Jaded]

Given 1 great NFC QB will be in superbowl. He could beat out stafford who is wayyyy better then Newton.

Most likely comes down to Newton, Stafford, Ryan, Vick and Manning. Cutler isn't going to put up Stafford numbers so it'll have to come from other factors.......

[NightTerror218]

Most likely comes down to Newton, Stafford, Ryan, Vick and Manning. Cutler isn't going to put up Stafford numbers so it'll have to come from other factors.......

Did you see Culvert in 08? 4500+ yards. I think with Marshall he can get closer to that mark again. Bear have had crap for WR for some time.

[Bugs Baloney]

By week 5 or 6 I believe we will start seeing a little more zip on Manning's passes.
Not saying he is throwing weak rainbow passes, but we can all see his arm strength isn't back to 100% yet.

Specific duties we perform, whether it's swinging a golf club, washing dishes, playing the drums or throwing a football,
use their own specific muscles. The more these repetitive motions are performed, the more those specific muscles develop and strengthen.

[NightTerror218]

By week 5 or 6 I believe we will start seeing a little more zip on Manning's passes.
Not saying he is throwing weak rainbow passes, but we can all see his arm strength isn't back to 100% yet.

Specific duties we perform, whether it's swinging a golf club, washing dishes, playing the drums or throwing a football,
use their own specific muscles. The more these repetitive motions are performed, the more those specific muscles develop and strengthen.

He threw a rocket at Stokley into a tight window that really caught my attention on the TD drive.

[Simple Jaded]

Did you see Culvert in 08? 4500+ yards. I think with Marshall he can get closer to that mark again. Bear have had crap for WR for some time.

Damn right I saw them, you're preaching to the choir. But Stafford has no running game and the best WR in the game, my guess is he makes a run at the passing yards leader.

Also, consider the fact that Cutler is the least popular QB in the league.......

[NightTerror218]

Damn right I saw them, you're preaching to the choir. But Stafford has no running game and the best WR in the game, my guess is he makes a run at the passing yards leader.

Also, consider the fact that Cutler is the least popular QB in the league.......

that is true....also have to see other factors too. He is also on an unpopular team that I think is the reason he was shafted last season for Pro Bowl and Newton got it.

[Bugs Baloney]

Sorry to say, to all the Cutler defenders, since leaving Denver the guy just implodes all over himself.

IMO that is what he deserves! I see more of the same coming for him this year. With that terrible OL
they have there in Chicago. He will be sacked 5 times a game and put up another 20+ INT's this year.

More of the same if I'm correct?!!?

[NightTerror218]

Sorry to say, to all the Cutler defenders, since leaving Denver the guy just implodes all over himself.

IMO that is what he deserves! I see more of the same coming for him this year. With that terrible OL
they have there in Chicago. He will be sacked 5 times a game and put up another 20+ INT's this year.

More of the same if I'm correct?!!?

I am not defending him, I just think he is going to have a good year. He had one last season too.

[EMB6903]

I am not defending him, I just think he is going to have a good year. He had one last season too.

I liked Cutlers game in Denver. Just as much as I do seeing him in Chicago, I would not be surprised if hes a pro bowl starter this year.

That being said. Its Peyton Manning were talking about.

[ShaneFalco]

What a pathetic and false thread.

[nevcraw]

man - what did tebow do to all of u for such disdain.. Tebow didn't do anything wrong by motioning him to come back.. to characterize it as such is plain bs.

[MOtorboat]

man - what did tebow do to all of u for such disdain.. Tebow didn't do anything wrong by motioning him to come back.. to characterize it as such is plain bs.

Ok, Dan Marino.

Why WOULDN'T the wide open receiver standing in the end zone come back out of the end zone for a pass?

Maybe because he was standing WIDE OPEN IN THE ENDZONE?

[sneakers]

wat?

[sneakers]

Ok, Dan Marino.

Why WOULDN'T the wide open receiver standing the end zone come back out of the end zone for a pass?

Dan Marino can die of gonorrhea and rot in hell, would you like a cookie son?

[BroncoWave]

Here's the thing about that play. There was NO reason for Tebow to start moving to his right. None. There wasn't any pressure up the middle or from the left, so there was zero reason for him to get antsy. Yet he did. And that's why that throw was bad. Because his footwork is poor, his timing in the pocket is pathetic and he can't read the field.

You must have gotten a massive boner when this thread came up.

[MOtorboat]

You must have gotten a massive boner when this thread came up.

Would you like to discuss the play, or no?

[catfish]

Would you like to discuss the play, or no?

its a scramble, on a scramble drill the deep route is supposed to work back towards the QB. At least that is the common practice, qb is on the move you don't want him trying to throw it 35 yards in the air. Tebow should have taken the time to get set and throw, but it was a miscommunication as far as what the responsibility of the receiver is on a scramble. My guess is Tebow thought he would notice he was scrambling and stop, and the receiver either did not see/recognize that, or they hadn't gone over it in practice since it will not be a large part of Sanchez game So the fault is probably 90-95% on Tebow, 5-10 on Hill, but that is what the preseason is for, working out those kinks. Not that it matters because the only time tebow will be throwing in a game is if Sanchez gets hurt.

If you want an example look to DT TD vs minnesota when Tebow stiff arms the lineman. DT is working back to the line and makes it an easy 10 yard pass instead of bolting to open space behind him.

[MOtorboat]

its a scramble, on a scramble drill the deep route is supposed to work back towards the QB. At least that is the common practice, qb is on the move you don't want him trying to throw it 35 yards in the air. Tebow should have taken the time to get set and throw, but it was a miscommunication as far as what the responsibility of the receiver is on a scramble. My guess is Tebow thought he would notice he was scrambling and stop, and the receiver either did not see/recognize that, or they hadn't gone over it in practice since it will not be a large part of Sanchez game So the fault is probably 90-95% on Tebow, 5-10 on Hill, but that is what the preseason is for, working out those kinks. Not that it matters because the only time tebow will be throwing in a game is if Sanchez gets hurt.

If you want an example look to DT TD vs minnesota when Tebow stiff arms the lineman. DT is working back to the line and makes it an easy 10 yard pass instead of bolting to open space behind him.

It wasn't a scramble. Tebow missed the read and got happy feet. If he stands in the pocket and reads the defense he sees the wide open receiver in the end zone.

[catfish]

It wasn't a scramble. Tebow missed the read and got happy feet. If he stands in the pocket and reads the defense he sees the wide open receiver in the end zone.

so you don't really want to discuss the play, you just want to bash Tebow got it. The QB was on the run, regardless of whether he should have been or not it was a scramble, saying it was not is just being willfully ignorant. Should he have been on the run, no , hence 95% on him, but the theory that the receive thought "well he shouldnt be running so I won't follow scramble drill" is stupid

[MOtorboat]

so you don't really want to discuss the play, you just want to bash Tebow got it. The QB was on the run, regardless of whether he should have been or not it was a scramble, saying it was not is just being willfully ignorant. Should he have been on the run, no , hence 95% on him, but the theory that the receive thought "well he shouldnt be running so I won't follow scramble drill" is stupid

I am discussing the damn play.

Why was the quarterback on the run? It certainly wasn't pressure.

The defensive back chucked Hill at the line and let him go, and the safety didn't help over, staying in the middle of the field. He was open in less than a half a second. It was a blown coverage. And instead of just staying in the pocket like a quarterback is supposed to do, and delivering the football to the wide open receiver he starts dancing right, which causes him to throw across his body and short.

[BroncoWave]

Would you like to discuss the play, or no?

I don't really give a shit about the play, or Tebow for that matter. I just find entertainment in how angry he still makes you.

[MOtorboat]

I don't really give a shit about the play, or Tebow for that matter. I just find entertainment in how angry he still makes you.

So you're a troll.

We all know that. But thanks for confirming it.

[catfish]

I am discussing the damn play.

Why was the quarterback on the run? It certainly wasn't pressure.

The defensive back chucked Hill at the line and let him go, and the safety didn't help over, staying in the middle of the field. He was open in less than a half a second. It was a blown coverage. And instead of just staying in the pocket like a quarterback is supposed to do, and delivering the football to the wide open receiver he starts dancing right, which causes him to throw across his body and short.

It doesnt matter why he was scrambling, what matters is that he was. It is not the receviers job to decide whether the QB should be scrambling it is his job to recognize the fact that he is and react accordingly. Whether he should have been on the run is beside the point. We were discussing what the receivers job is, you have realized you are wrong and are trying to change the subject to the decision making. I have already said he should not have been on the run, but the fact remains that he was. So I will ask you, once the receiver saw that tebow was scrambling what should he have done

[MOtorboat]

It doesnt matter why he was scrambling, what matters is that he was. It is not the receviers job to decide whether the QB should be scrambling it is his job to recognize the fact that he is and react accordingly. Whether he should have been on the run is beside the point. We were discussing what the receivers job is, you have realized you are wrong and are trying to change the subject to the decision making. I have already said he should not have been on the run, but the fact remains that he was. So I will ask you, once the receiver saw that tebow was scrambling what should he have done

It does matter why he's running and it's not beside the point. That's a distinct part of why he's not starting in the NFL. You have to stand in the pocket, read the defense and deliver the throw. In this case, if he does that, it's an easy touchdown. He didn't do that. He panicked, moved right when he didn't need to which put him in a bad situation to set and throw the football. Had he stayed in the pocked and delivered the ball, he would have (I think) had the proper footwork and motion t deliver a touchdown strike.

What gets him into these situations where the ball is thrown poorly is as important as the result. In this case, he reacted poorly and it resulted in a poor throw.

The sad thing, is that this is really, really basic stuff. Near high school level knowledge and mechanics.

[sneakers]

You must have gotten a massive boner when this thread came up.

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/characters/adults/hardly-boys.jpg

[chazoe60]

Yet another thread proving my "the people who hate Tebow are the ones who bring him up the most" theory.


Obsessed much?

I hate Orton ten times more than any of you hate Tebow and you don't see me bringing him up in thread after thread, what is it about Tebow that makes you guys obsess so much? You know who I am talking to.

[BroncoWave]

Yet another thread proving my "the people who hate Tebow are the ones who bring him up the most" theory.


Obsessed much?

I hate Orton ten times more than any of you hate Tebow and you don't see me bringing him up in thread after thread, what is it about Tebow that makes you guys obsess so much? You know who I am talking to.

I'd say it's more of a fact than a theory. 90% of the posts I see about Tebow are from people who hated him here.

[catfish]

as an aside Tebows quote from the postgame was

“Didn’t exactly know where the safety was, I tried to put it low for him to come back, and I should have put it up higher for him,” Tebow said, “so that’s just us getting some more reps.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/two_questions_no_answers_aoFnnYQRWfKdo16SwcoAhP#ix zz249AZnZjj

[MOtorboat]

as an aside Tebows quote from the postgame was

“Didn’t exactly know where the safety was, I tried to put it low for him to come back, and I should have put it up higher for him,” Tebow said, “so that’s just us getting some more reps.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/two_questions_no_answers_aoFnnYQRWfKdo16SwcoAhP#ix zz249AZnZjj

If he'd stayed in the pocket and thrown it on rythym it wouldn't be an issue. But, of course, he didn't do that, and we're left with people telling me that his lack of reading a defense isn't a problem...

[BroncoWave]

If he'd stayed in the pocket and thrown it on rythym it wouldn't be an issue. But, of course, he didn't do that, and we're left with people telling me that his lack of reading a defense isn't a problem...

You tell us it is a problem 3489038949282 times more than anyone tells you it's not a problem.

[MOtorboat]

You tell us it is a problem 3489038949282 times more than anyone tells you it's not a problem.

Trolling, trolling, trolling...

[BroncoWave]

Trolling, trolling, trolling...

You can call it trolling, but most would likely agree it's the truth. You are worse than mtn_man was with Plummer or JRwiz with Shanny. We have Peyton Freaking Manning and a team that looks to be very competitive but you can't stop bitching about Tebow enough to even notice or enjoy it.

[MOtorboat]

You can call it trolling, but most would likely agree it's the truth. You are worse than mtn_man was with Plummer or JRwiz with Shanny. We have Peyton Freaking Manning and a team that looks to be very competitive but you can't stop bitching about Tebow enough to even notice or enjoy it.

Show me a thread that I've started specifically about Tebow. If you don't want to talk about it. Don't click on the thread, troll.

It's brought up often by other people, I respond with my thoughts.

Then you respond with trolling, because you, apparently, have nothing else better to do than bitch about others stating their opinion about last year.

[Simple Jaded]

Yet another thread proving my "the people who hate Tebow are the ones who bring him up the most" theory.


Obsessed much?

I hate Orton ten times more than any of you hate Tebow and you don't see me bringing him up in thread after thread, what is it about Tebow that makes you guys obsess so much? You know who I am talking to.This is no different than any other message board, Tebow is so ridiculously popular that there is probably threads just like this on the MB of every team in the league.

Three things I don't get; Why is it that Tebow is the only player on the planet that is not allowed to be criticized? You criticize Blaine Gabbert and you're a skeptic, you criticize Tebow and you're a hater.

Why is it the people that supposedly don't care still get bent when Tebow is criticized? You keep saying it's the same peole obsessing about Tebow yet it's the same people whining about it.

And considering all this it's still hard for people to understand why Tebow had to go? The dude is thousands of miles away but he's still toxic.......

[chazoe60]

This is no different than any other message board, Tebow is so ridiculously popular that there is probably threads just like this on the MB of every team in the league.

Three things I don't get; Why is it that Tebow is the only player on the planet that is not allowed to be criticized? You criticize Blaine Gabbert and you're a skeptic, you criticize Tebow and you're a hater.

Why is it the people that supposedly don't care still get bent when Tebow is criticized? You keep saying it's the same peole obsessing about Tebow yet it's the same people whining about it.

And considering all this it's still hard for people to understand why Tebow had to go? The dude is thousands of miles away but he's still toxic.......

1. It's not the criticism, it's the almost giddiness shown at any mistake that he makes. It's the mean spiritedness with which the criticisms are made that are annoying. And please point out the last Blaine Gabbert thread.

2. I don't think I ever said I don't care about Tebow one way or the other, I just don't obsess about him the way you guys do.

3. I have said since the day Manning chose to come here that Tebow would have to go. In a perfect world Tebow would have changed positions and stayed here and became a HOF TE, but that's not what he wanted. As long as he was going to try and remain a QB then there was no way this town or team could kep him. The minute Manning struggled we'd see a bunch of idiots screaming for Tebow. I see both sides. I'm not just a big Tebow fan like you think. I was jumping up and down when we signed Manning. I'm a Bronco fan.

[Joel]

This is no different than any other message board, Tebow is so ridiculously popular that there is probably threads just like this on the MB of every team in the league.

Three things I don't get; Why is it that Tebow is the only player on the planet that is not allowed to be criticized? You criticize Blaine Gabbert and you're a skeptic, you criticize Tebow and you're a hater.

Why is it the people that supposedly don't care still get bent when Tebow is criticized? You keep saying it's the same peole obsessing about Tebow yet it's the same people whining about it.

And considering all this it's still hard for people to understand why Tebow had to go? The dude is thousands of miles away but he's still toxic.......
The dude's a thousand miles away but he's still the TOPIC, and his fans didn't create this thread. Seriously, are we really going to spend ANOTHER season debating Tebows merits or lack thereof? It made sense when Orton and Quinn were his only competition, but now it's just manufacturing an argument. Manning's here, Tebow isn't and the formers performance is the only thing relevant to the Denver Broncos unless 1) we're playing the Jets and 2) Tebow's starting, which I can only hope doesn't happen in the playoffs or I'll be afraid to login here.

Guaranteeing Tebow's a future HoFer OR grocery bagger is as much as ever begging to be made a fool (though the latter just says he's too dumb to succeed, since he demonstrably has the physical ability and discipline.) However, that was never the issue once Manning hit the market, nor even his health and our lines dubious ability to protect it. If we MUST re-hash this yet again, the overriding issues were and remain:

1) Star QBs have a well documented history of slumping in their first year with a new team,
2) After next season (at the latest) Manning will be just another player, if he's playing at all,
3) Denver is more than one player, even a first ballot HoFer, from a championship and
4) Manning ties up an obscene amount of money (approximately 1/6 of the total team cap) needed to sign those other players.

Whether Tebow's good, bad or indifferent changes none of that; he's gone, but those problems persist, and will until/unless a bona fide starter's waiting in the wings to replace Manning. Just ask Indy; cutting Manning and drafting Luck surely had at least as much to do with the formers rapidly approaching expiration date as with his spinal surgeries (though those were undoubtedly a factor, too.) Here's to a great season of Manning shaking off a year and a half of rust and rehab far faster than Favre, McNabb and a host of others shook off simply switching teams, because a year and a half from now he'll probably be retired, and definitely not worth $20 million/year. Low expectations very pleasantly surprised me last season, so I'm approaching this one the same way, knowing any team planning to start someone else in two years has NO franchise QB.

[Simple Jaded]

1. It's not the criticism, it's the almost giddiness shown at any mistake that he makes. It's the mean spiritedness with which the criticisms are made that are annoying. And please point out the last Blaine Gabbert thread.

2. I don't think I ever said I don't care about Tebow one way or the other, I just don't obsess about him the way you guys do.

3. I have said since the day Manning chose to come here that Tebow would have to go. In a perfect world Tebow would have changed positions and stayed here and became a HOF TE, but that's not what he wanted. As long as he was going to try and remain a QB then there was no way this town or team could kep him. The minute Manning struggled we'd see a bunch of idiots screaming for Tebow. I see both sides. I'm not just a big Tebow fan like you think. I was jumping up and down when we signed Manning. I'm a Bronco fan.
1. I think the giddiness and mean spiritedness you're picking up on is coming from two years of Tebowmania. No doubt the shoe will be on the other foot once Tebow shows an ounce of improvement. The point about Gabbert is generally speaking. In general, Gabbert is a punch line while Tebow's birthday is national holliday, even though there really isn't much difference in the results.

2. I don't obsess about Tim Tebow, point of fact, I couldn't care less what he accomplishes in the NFL just as long as it's not in Denver. I do, however, enjoy talking NFL football and this one topic where everybody has an opinion. You say you don't obsess but I do, yet here WE are.

3. I didn't mean to imply you didn't understand, again, speaking in general.......

[BroncoWave]

This is no different than any other message board, Tebow is so ridiculously popular that there is probably threads just like this on the MB of every team in the league.

Three things I don't get; Why is it that Tebow is the only player on the planet that is not allowed to be criticized? You criticize Blaine Gabbert and you're a skeptic, you criticize Tebow and you're a hater.

Why is it the people that supposedly don't care still get bent when Tebow is criticized? You keep saying it's the same peole obsessing about Tebow yet it's the same people whining about it.

And considering all this it's still hard for people to understand why Tebow had to go? The dude is thousands of miles away but he's still toxic.......

Every single one of you people misses this point. It has nothing to do with people getting mad about Tebow being criticized. I happen to agree with many of the criticisms. The point is that you people just can't stop whining and complaning about him in Broncos talk and refuse to let him go. Although the same things happened with McDaniels, Cutler, and others, so I guess it is to be expected.

[Simple Jaded]

"1) Star QBs have a well documented history of slumping in their first year with a new team,
2) After next season (at the latest) Manning will be just another player, if he's playing at all,
3) Denver is more than one player, even a first ballot HoFer, from a championship and
4) Manning ties up an obscene amount of money (approximately 1/6 of the total team cap) needed to sign those other players."-- Joel.......

-----------------

1. Trying to say that a Manning slump is reason enough to pass on him in free agency is obscenely stupid considering any other free agent would be dealing with the same exact circumstances regardless of age. You cherry picked "Star players" because it suits your argument but you conveniently the fact that they're certainly not the only ones dealing with new teammates, systems, surroundings, etc. The Broncos needed an upgrade at the most important position on the field and if Manning never gets better than he is now the Broncos accomplished just that.

2. Thanks for the update Nostradamus, can I bother you for some lotto numbers?

3. I never said they weren't more than a HoF QB away, I said they needed a QB to even dream of a Championship. I'm not even sure what your point is here, I wouldn't be surprised if you're not sure either.

4. It's not your F'n money, Joel, but if you thought a player like Manning was going to sign for Tim Tebow scratch then you're even more delusional than I give you credit for. Good luck signing "those other players" when you have absolutely no chance at the most important position on the field. You have to be able to sell your team to free agents, how do you sell them on the whirlpool of bullshit this team was last season? And why would you spend that money on "those other players" if they're just gonna slump in their 1st year with a new team?

Always a pleasure, Joel, how's that Tebow-friendly Passer Rating coming?.......

[Simple Jaded]

Every single one of you people misses this point. It has nothing to do with people getting mad about Tebow being criticized. I happen to agree with many of the criticisms. The point is that you people just can't stop whining and complaning about him in Broncos talk and refuse to let him go. Although the same things happened with McDaniels, Cutler, and others, so I guess it is to be expected.
Where did I ever say I wanted to let the argument go? I suppose if I said "I wish l could just let this argument go" you might have a point. You wouldn't be here if you didn't want to voice your opinion, so I think it's safe to say that you should have expected it from the rest of us.

Whining and complaining is my favorite part of Tebowmania.......

[Joel]

"1) Star QBs have a well documented history of slumping in their first year with a new team,
2) After next season (at the latest) Manning will be just another player, if he's playing at all,
3) Denver is more than one player, even a first ballot HoFer, from a championship and
4) Manning ties up an obscene amount of money (approximately 1/6 of the total team cap) needed to sign those other players."-- Joel.......

-----------------

1. Trying to say that a Manning slump is reason enough to pass on him in free agency is obscenely stupid considering any other free agent would be dealing with the same exact circumstances regardless of age. You cherry picked "Star players" because it suits your argument but you conveniently the fact that they're certainly not the only ones dealing with new teammates, systems, surroundings, etc. The Broncos needed an upgrade at the most important position on the field and if Manning never gets better than he is now the Broncos accomplished just that.
Learning a whole new system and roster means most QBs slump their first year with a new team; a stars decline is just more noticeable than a mediocre players. However, stars are also the only ones RELEVANT to teams justifying $20 million/year salaries on the grounds any team without a HoF QB should just cancel it's season now. No one outside KC cares if Brady Quinn slumps. Few care even there, because they're paying him peanuts, but if he's much better the following year he'll only be 28. Manning would be worth it if he only had to stay healthy to play well for another 7, 5 or even 3 years. Since he'll turn 37 a month after the next Super Bowl, that first year lost learning the new team leaves (maybe) one good season to win it all—if we're lucky enough our useless MLB, aging secondary, porous offensive line and lack of running back depth don't kill us. The same $20 million/year would've signed three or four Pro Bowlers in their mid-twenties and kept us in the hunt for the next decade instead of remaining out of it, which is where we are.


2. Thanks for the update Nostradamus, can I bother you for some lotto numbers?
With everyone acting like Manning instantly solved all our problems, a reminder was in order. We just made a staggering investment for what will almost certainly be a disproportionately small athletic return. It'll please existing fans and maybe draw some new ones, sell Manning jerseys and probably get Denver a couple more prime time games, all of which make sense from a business perspective. In terms of titles: One year, if Manning stays healthy, is a fast learner and we're very lucky.


3. I never said they weren't more than a HoF QB away, I said they needed a QB to even dream of a Championship. I'm not even sure what your point is here, I wouldn't be surprised if you're not sure either.
My point is we STILL don't have our championship QB, because by the time we have all those other indispensable-but-absent players he'll be gone. His age would make that likely by itself, but his massive salary makes it practically certain. It's all well and good to say good players will want to join Manning, but that's only applicable while he's playing, which won't be much longer.


4. It's not your F'n money, Joel, but if you thought a player like Manning was going to sign for Tim Tebow scratch then you're even more delusional than I give you credit for. Good luck signing "those other players" when you have absolutely no chance at the most important position on the field. You have to be able to sell your team to free agents, how do you sell them on the whirlpool of bullshit this team was last season? And why would you spend that money on "those other players" if they're just gonna slump in their 1st year with a new team?
Guess what: Denver won the Division and a playoff game with that "whirlpool of bullshit." How much better do you expect this year? A Conference Championship trip? Think they'll win one of the next two Super Bowls? Unless your answer to one of those questions is "yes," replacing Tebow with Manning accomplished NOTHING athletically; it just blew $40 million that would have. It was a colossal waste of time and money; Bowlen may of course do as he likes with his share of the latter, but Champ and McGahee don't have a lot of the former left to win their first Ring.

Remember all the people worried we let NO swipe our best DT because we wouldn't pay him $4 million this year? Mannings salary would sign FIVE Bunkleys (or three or four Pro Bowlers,) for 5-7 years. That would instantly put, and keep, us in title contention; Manning only gives Homers reason to be Homers (not that they need one.) That first year slump, even with the huge pricetag, is worth it if followed by multiple Pro Bowls, and that's why I'd spend the money despite the slump. Guys so old and beat up the season after the slump will also be their last just aren't worth the eye-poppingly large salaries they command.


Always a pleasure, Joel, how's that Tebow-friendly Passer Rating coming?.......
Yeah, the sarcasm and insults conveyed your pleasure well, but maybe I needed a reminder not to do that. The QBRS is doing fine, though I need to finish totalling last years fumble and interception return yardage to precisely determine what the penalty(s) should be. I'm not sure how Tebow friendly it really is though; QB rushing tends to be a wash for guys who fumble and/or get sacked a lot. Same thing happened the first year I ran it; Manning and McNabb finished #1 and 2, but under the PRS it was close (only 2 points different) and under the QBRS it wasn't (Manning went down 2 points but McNabb went down 7.)

Anyway, I get it: We agree Manning's a no brainer, but in different senses. If we win a SB before he retires you're right; otherwise I dare say I am. Within a year and a half everyone should see the answer.

[Chef Zambini]

kurt warner, did not"slump" in NY, he was not given a chance.
michael turner did not slump when he went to the falcons, neither did any of the other chargers, who left town early. Its more about WHEN they leavre and WHY as aapposed to the leaving creating deficiencies!
It always depends on the individual and the circumstances !
regarding PM, i like the individual, and I like the circumstances !

[Northman]

Sorry to say, to all the Cutler defenders, since leaving Denver the guy just implodes all over himself.

IMO that is what he deserves! I see more of the same coming for him this year. With that terrible OL
they have there in Chicago. He will be sacked 5 times a game and put up another 20+ INT's this year.

More of the same if I'm correct?!!?

Maybe.

But if they look anything like they did against Washington the other night your going to have a lot of mud on your face. Jay, Brandon, and the team in general looked real good.

[Northman]

Dan Marino can die of gonorrhea and rot in hell, would you like a cookie son?

Laces out.

[Northman]

so you don't really want to discuss the play, you just want to bash Tebow got it. The QB was on the run, regardless of whether he should have been or not it was a scramble, saying it was not is just being willfully ignorant. Should he have been on the run, no , hence 95% on him, but the theory that the receive thought "well he shouldnt be running so I won't follow scramble drill" is stupid


Actually Cat, sorry man but your not correct on this issue. At least not in terms of Hill himself. When a QB scrambles the only guys that should be making an attempt to come back to the QB are the guys underneath whether its the slot receiver or the TE. If Hill was on a post pattern his job is to beat the coverage down the field (which he apparently did). It was Tebow's job at that point (whether scrambling or not) to get set and deliver the ball if he was wide open. When your on a post route you do not run all the way back to the QB just because he is scrambling, thats what the underneath routes are for. While Tebow may still be learning its not the receivers job on a post pattern to come all the way back just because the QB cant make the pass. If Tebow had any doubt about him getting the ball to Hill he should of gone through his progressions and went underneath.

[Northman]

Yet another thread proving my "the people who hate Tebow are the ones who bring him up the most" theory.


Obsessed much?

I hate Orton ten times more than any of you hate Tebow and you don't see me bringing him up in thread after thread, what is it about Tebow that makes you guys obsess so much? You know who I am talking to.

Yet you still come into the threads and whine just as much. :lol:

[Northman]

If you don't want to talk about it. Don't click on the thread, troll.



Then you respond with trolling, because you, apparently, have nothing else better to do than bitch about others stating their opinion about last year.

Nailed it.

[catfish]

Actually Cat, sorry man but your not correct on this issue. At least not in terms of Hill himself. When a QB scrambles the only guys that should be making an attempt to come back to the QB are the guys underneath whether its the slot receiver or the TE. If Hill was on a post pattern his job is to beat the coverage down the field (which he apparently did). It was Tebow's job at that point (whether scrambling or not) to get set and deliver the ball if he was wide open. When your on a post route you do not run all the way back to the QB just because he is scrambling, thats what the underneath routes are for. While Tebow may still be learning its not the receivers job on a post pattern to come all the way back just because the QB cant make the pass. If Tebow had any doubt about him getting the ball to Hill he should of gone through his progressions and went underneath.

looking into it more I find it about 50/50 deep route work back to QB vs deep route go to flag deep, from what I can find on offense coaching lectures on Google, so you very well could be right. I don't think in the situation that the play unfolded from that asking a QB to throw 41 yards in the air on the run is a good idea, but that may be what the scramble drill calls for. Either way it was a piss poor pass and we are talking 5% responsibility vs none. still 95-100% on the QB

[Northman]

looking into it more I find it about 50/50 deep route work back to QB vs deep route go to flag deep, from what I can find on offense coaching lectures on Google, so you very well could be right. I don't think in the situation that the play unfolded from that asking a QB to throw 41 yards in the air on the run is a good idea, but that may be what the scramble drill calls for. Either way it was a piss poor pass and we are talking 5% responsibility vs none. still 95-100% on the QB

Yea, for me i dont care if Tebow blames Hill or not. Im just talking from my own experiences from playing the position and what ive observed watching the game over the course of 30 years. If Hill had not been open or had never gotten past the safety than i might say that he would work his way back. But if he had beaten his coverage it would make no logical sense to come back to the QB in his particular case. We've probably seen many times where a QB goes to throw a pass but misses seeing the wide open guy down the field. The good news is Tebow saw him, the bad news is his mechanics of getting the ball to him wasnt very good. But these are things that can be learned.

[chazoe60]

Yet you still come into the threads and whine just as much. :lol:

Please post examples of me "whining".

[BroncoJoe]

Polarizing.

It's sad, really.

[catfish]

Yea, for me i dont care if Tebow blames Hill or not. Im just talking from my own experiences from playing the position and what ive observed watching the game over the course of 30 years. If Hill had not been open or had never gotten past the safety than i might say that he would work his way back. But if he had beaten his coverage it would make no logical sense to come back to the QB in his particular case. We've probably seen many times where a QB goes to throw a pass but misses seeing the wide open guy down the field. The good news is Tebow saw him, the bad news is his mechanics of getting the ball to him wasnt very good. But these are things that can be learned.

I have a question, no sarcasm genuinely curious, after reading up on it I can see why the receiver would go to the endzone and not work back, I don't get why he seemed to be coasting to the endzone? was he worried that the safety would pick him up. I would think it would either be get open and stop or run to the endzone. Coasting like that seems like it would make it more difficult a throw for any QB to make, not just Tebow.

As a plus the throwing did overall seem to be improved in the 3rd quarter when the line was giving him lots of time. In the 4th when he was pressured it was pretty bad. I think he was 4-5 in the third for 52 yds with the 2nd stringers, and it was all down hill form there with the 3rd string. I think a year or 2 as a backup will be good for him

[MOtorboat]

I have a question, no sarcasm genuinely curious, after reading up on it I can see why the receiver would go to the endzone and not work back, I don't get why he seemed to be coasting to the endzone? was he worried that the safety would pick him up. I would think it would either be get open and stop or run to the endzone. Coasting like that seems like it would make it more difficult a throw for any QB to make, not just Tebow.

As a plus the throwing did overall seem to be improved in the 3rd quarter when the line was giving him lots of time. In the 4th when he was pressured it was pretty bad. I think he was 4-5 in the third for 52 yds with the 2nd stringers, and it was all down hill form there with the 3rd string. I think a year or 2 as a backup will be good for him

If the quarterback had read his progressions instead of panicking the receiver would have coasted in to the end zone with the football.

[catfish]

If the quarterback had read his progressions instead of panicking the receiver would have coasted in to the end zone with the football.

you do realize Tebow was already on the run when that screenshot was taken right, It looked like he had gone through his first read, saw 54 coming off the edge and turned to run early. Hill had 2 steps on the CB when Tebow turned to run, he faked to the guy in the flat and the CB bit leaving Hill wide open he then short hopped the throw. He probably had time to set and throw, but was being pursued from the rear so realistically probably didn't know that. Ont that same drive he delived 4 passes on time and on target, did he bail early on that 1 play, possibly, but it is not an indication of his play as a whole for the qtr

[Northman]

I have a question, no sarcasm genuinely curious, after reading up on it I can see why the receiver would go to the endzone and not work back, I don't get why he seemed to be coasting to the endzone? was he worried that the safety would pick him up. I would think it would either be get open and stop or run to the endzone. Coasting like that seems like it would make it more difficult a throw for any QB to make, not just Tebow.




Honestly i dont think Tebow would know if he was coasting or not. Once the ball is hiked he has about a dozen different things going on around him so i doubt he was focused on Hill the entire time. As too Hill if he was coasting than either he didnt have faith that the QB could get the ball there or he got lazy. If its the latter than thats not a good sign from a young receiver.

[catfish]

Honestly i dont think Tebow would know if he was coasting or not. Once the ball is hiked he has about a dozen different things going on around him so i doubt he was focused on Hill the entire time. As too Hill if he was coasting than either he didnt have faith that the QB could get the ball there or he got lazy. If its the latter than thats not a good sign from a young receiver.

Hill started his route hot, so I don't think he was being lazy on his route, but during the scramble once the CB bit on the short route he coasted towards the endzone. I would say that it started about the 15 yard line, I have the game set to record at 1 when it replays so I will watch it again to verify, but that is what I didn't understand. If the receiver didn't think the arm strength was there why would he keep running,(he ran 17 more yards while Tebow was scrambling) if he did think it was there why wouldn't he run full out, find a spot in the endzone and plant there. It just seemed odd, and coupled with the miscommunication quotes afterwards from Tebow I figured they weren't on the same page as to what was supposed to be happening.

[topscribe]

as an aside Tebows quote from the postgame was

“Didn’t exactly know where the safety was, I tried to put it low for him to come back, and I should have put it up higher for him,” Tebow said, “so that’s just us getting some more reps.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/two_questions_no_answers_aoFnnYQRWfKdo16SwcoAhP#ix zz249AZnZjj
That's just it. Plummer/Cutler/Orton/Manning would have known where the safety
was. Even Sanchez might have. Even so, I'm not convinced that Tebow
intentionally threw the ball low. He's been known to hop it off the ground before.
Like lots of times.

The fact of it is, Tebow had a man WIDE open in the end zone, and he blew it.
.

[vandammage13]

I am discussing the damn play.

Why was the quarterback on the run? It certainly wasn't pressure.

The defensive back chucked Hill at the line and let him go, and the safety didn't help over, staying in the middle of the field. He was open in less than a half a second. It was a blown coverage. And instead of just staying in the pocket like a quarterback is supposed to do, and delivering the football to the wide open receiver he starts dancing right, which causes him to throw across his body and short.

The way the Jets line has been blocking I don't blame him for leaving the pocket early.

That said, it was a bad pass...

[MOtorboat]

The way the Jets line has been blocking I don't blame him for leaving the pocket early.

That said, it was a bad pass...

There was a great timing pass by Tebow to Hill in the third quarter. It was a deep sideline comeback, and he stood in the pocket, made reads and delivered the football. If does the same to Hill in the 4th quarter its an easy touchdown.

Like top just said, NFL caliber quarterbacks know where the safeties are on most plays, stand in the pocket and deliver the football. The reason it was a poor pass was because he panicked was off balance, If he stays in the pocket and maybe slides right, instead of turning parallel to the sideline, he can still make the throw. If he did what he had already done in the third quarter, its an easy touchdown.

[PatriotsGuy]

Back to the original post, I've seen Manning throw his o-line under the bus while at Indy so lets see how the season plays out with the whole pointing finger at himself thing.

[Mike]

Back to the original post, I've seen Manning throw his o-line under the bus while at Indy so lets see how the season plays out with the whole pointing finger at himself thing.

He's earned the right to toss people under the bus...hadn't you heard?

[catfish]

There was a great timing pass by Tebow to Hill in the third quarter. It was a deep sideline comeback, and he stood in the pocket, made reads and delivered the football. If does the same to Hill in the 4th quarter its an easy touchdown.

Like top just said, NFL caliber quarterbacks know where the safeties are on most plays, stand in the pocket and deliver the football. The reason it was a poor pass was because he panicked was off balance, If he stays in the pocket and maybe slides right, instead of turning parallel to the sideline, he can still make the throw. If he did what he had already done in the third quarter, its an easy touchdown.

I believe the great timing pass you are referring to is the pass immediately prior to this pass. The pass immediately after was a 17 yard pass to white, it was 3rd and 20 due to a holding penalty so they had to take the FG. The miss to Hill was in the 3rd quarter on a 68 yard drive where Tebow went 4-5 for 52 yards and the protection was admittedly pretty good. realistically it was not a bad drive. it was the only Jets drive with the 2nd stringers in. When the 3rd string came in for the 4th qtr everything fell apart on the OL, Tebows QB play sucked and the WR were not good.

[catfish]

Back to the original post, I've seen Manning throw his o-line under the bus while at Indy so lets see how the season plays out with the whole pointing finger at himself thing.

I actually like that the receivers are publicly taking the blame on themselves. So there is no need to call them out

[Ravage!!!]

There is no shot of Tebow winning the starting job without Sanchez getting injured. Tebow has looked worse this year at passing than last. Its really a no-brainer at this point what Tebow's role is with the Jets.

[TXBRONC]

Manning blames himself.
Tebow blames himself and others.
Cutler blames others.


Denver has made a consistent upgrade in this department at the qb position the last 5 years and its nice to see they finally seemed to get it right!

Tebow has a more likeable personality but he is nowhere near as good of quarterback as Cutler.

[Northman]

Tebow has a more likeable personality but he is nowhere near as good of quarterback as Cutler.

Its not even close.

[shank]

protection problems

[NightTerror218]

watching some videos on NFL.com and analysis are talking about the RT of the Jets. They were saying they may have NO QBs left at the end of the season if they do not replace him. He let severals guys run past him and drill Sanchez and Tebow. I dont care how big you are but if your getting blind sided it is going to take its toll. The RT was also a weak link last season.

[catfish]

watching some videos on NFL.com and analysis are talking about the RT of the Jets. They were saying they may have NO QBs left at the end of the season if they do not replace him. He let severals guys run past him and drill Sanchez and Tebow. I dont care how big you are but if your getting blind sided it is going to take its toll. The RT was also a weak link last season.

it was so bad he was trending worldwide on twitter by the end of the game, he ended up giving up 3 sacks in the first half with a 4th being called back due to an offsides call. You should see the Jets forums...they are going insane. There were 7 total sacks in the game

[turftoad]

watching some videos on NFL.com and analysis are talking about the RT of the Jets. They were saying they may have NO QBs left at the end of the season if they do not replace him. He let severals guys run past him and drill Sanchez and Tebow. I dont care how big you are but if your getting blind sided it is going to take its toll. The RT was also a weak link last season.

Thats a good excuse really. How come it works for Tebow but not for Cutler the last two years? No line or recievers to speak of but gets all the criticism from the people that don't like him.

[NightTerror218]

Thats a good excuse really. How come it works for Tebow but not for Cutler the last two years? No line or recievers to speak of but gets all the criticism from the people that don't like him.

It was not a Tebow excuse, I was commenting about the game. JETS QBs were getting sacked and hit hard. THIS IS A TREND FROM LAST SEASON AT RT. I also was referring to stuff I was reading/listening too on NFL.com. I added the big about size because TEBOW IS HUGE NOW. And taking huge hits will take its toll on his body even more so if he tries to run the ball.

[catfish]

it was so bad he was trending worldwide on twitter by the end of the game, he ended up giving up 3 sacks in the first half with a 4th being called back due to an offsides call. You should see the Jets forums...they are going insane. There were 7 total sacks in the game

edit: Jets fans are legitimately considering wanting Tebow to start and just never pass the ball because they have a turnstile at RT

[Ravage!!!]

edit: Jets fans are legitimately considering wanting Tebow to start and just never pass the ball because they have a turnstile at RT

I don't think "legitimately" is really the correct word. More like "jokingly" mentioning this as hyperbole/exaggeration to just how bad they feel their RT is.

[PatriotsGuy]

Yeah Wayne Hunter lol fun to watch Sanchez get smacked around

[TXBRONC]

I have a question, no sarcasm genuinely curious, after reading up on it I can see why the receiver would go to the endzone and not work back, I don't get why he seemed to be coasting to the endzone? was he worried that the safety would pick him up. I would think it would either be get open and stop or run to the endzone. Coasting like that seems like it would make it more difficult a throw for any QB to make, not just Tebow.

As a plus the throwing did overall seem to be improved in the 3rd quarter when the line was giving him lots of time. In the 4th when he was pressured it was pretty bad. I think he was 4-5 in the third for 52 yds with the 2nd stringers, and it was all down hill form there with the 3rd string. I think a year or 2 as a backup will be good for him

Hill beats the coverage and he's coasting? Even so there's no logical in the argument that Hill coasting made it a tougher for Tebow to throw the ball. Lets looks at fact, Hill is standing in the endzone with no one around him and he's facing Tebow. Sorry that doesn't make the throw harder it makes it easier. It was purely and simiply a poorly thrown pass.

[catfish]

Hill beats the coverage and he's coasting? Even so there's no logical in the argument that Hill coasting made it a tougher for Tebow to throw the ball. Lets looks at fact, Hill is standing in the endzone with no one around him and he's facing Tebow. Sorry that doesn't make the throw harder it makes it easier. It was purely and simiply a poorly thrown pass.

when the ball was thrown he was on the three, the ball hit on the goal line, the receiver tried to adjust to the throw from 2 yards in the endzone and slipped. Your argument is that it is just as easy to hit a moving target as it is to hit a stationary one? Not arguing the quality of the throw, but still haven't heard an explanation as to why the receiver slowed after breaking open

[turftoad]

when the ball was thrown he was on the three, the ball hit on the goal line, the receiver tried to adjust to the throw from 2 yards in the endzone and slipped. Your argument is that it is just as easy to hit a moving target as it is to hit a stationary one? Not arguing the quality of the throw, but still haven't heard an explanation as to why the receiver slowed after breaking open

He was standing in the endzone !! Standing there! He was WIDE open! It was a 35 yard pass. There is no excuse for this one at all Cat.

[catfish]

He was standing in the endzone !! Standing there! He was WIDE open! It was a 35 yard pass. There is no excuse for this one at all Cat.

he was most defianately not standing in the endzone, when the ball left Tebows hand he is on the three running at about 50% speed and waving, when the ball hit the ground he was 2 yards deep in the endzone.

[TXBRONC]

when the ball was thrown he was on the three, the ball hit on the goal line, the receiver tried to adjust to the throw from 2 yards in the endzone and slipped. Your argument is that it is just as easy to hit a moving target as it is to hit a stationary one? Not arguing the quality of the throw, but still haven't heard an explanation as to why the receiver slowed after breaking open

The play as I remember seeing it was that Hill was already in the end zone and he was facing Tebow. Where do you get the idea that I think hitting a stationary target is as easy as hitting a moving target I said no such thing? I said he was facing Tebow while standing the endzone that the same thing as saying he was stationary. If you can't argue about the quality of the throw an explanation for Hill slowing is down is irrelavent given that pass was short of the mark of a stationary target. Even if Hill was moving it still irrelevant because ball fell short end of story.

[TXBRONC]

He was standing in the endzone !! Standing there! He was WIDE open! It was a 35 yard pass. There is no excuse for this one at all Cat.

That's what I remember he was standing in end zone wide open.

[NightTerror218]

rolling out to the right, throwing across his body on the move, not the easiest throw for a lefty. He should have stopped and planted and then threw. Once again that bad pass was completely on Tebow. I do think Hill could have made that pass had he dove for the ball but he appeared to have slipped. But that ball should have been catchable. It was low, not 20 yards in one direction or any another. Tebow threw it where he wanted apparently low and near the pylon but he should have seen there was no safety in the area and not thrown low. I would say it is 95% Tebows fault. But i love how everyone is all over this and it is the FREAKING PRESEASON WHO REALLY GIVES A FLYING RATS ASS.

[TXBRONC]

rolling out to the right, throwing across his body on the move, not the easiest throw for a lefty. He should have stopped and planted and then threw. Once again that bad pass was completely on Tebow. I do think Hill could have made that pass had he dove for the ball but he appeared to have slipped. But that ball should have been catchable. It was low, not 20 yards in one direction or any another. Tebow threw it where he wanted apparently low and near the pylon but he should have seen there was no safety in the area and not thrown low. I would say it is 95% Tebows fault. But i love how everyone is all over this and it is the FREAKING PRESEASON WHO REALLY GIVES A FLYING RATS ASS.

Throwing across your body isn't any easier for a right handed quarterback. You're absolutely right it's just preseason and Tebow isn't even a Bronco so who really cares?

[NightTerror218]

Throwing across your body isn't any easier for a right handed quarterback. You're absolutely right it's just preseason and Tebow isn't even a Bronco so who really cares?

I know its not any easier, but rolling out to the right is easier for a right handed QB. Rolling out to the left is easier for a left handed QB.

[Bugs Baloney]

if under throws make you look ugly, then Tebow is one hideous mofo.

[catfish]

The play as I remember seeing it was that Hill was already in the end zone and he was facing Tebow. Where do you get the idea that I think hitting a stationary target is as easy as hitting a moving target I said no such thing? I said he was facing Tebow while standing the endzone that the same thing as saying he was stationary. If you can't argue about the quality of the throw an explanation for Hill slowing is down is irrelavent given that pass was short of the mark of a stationary target. Even if Hill was moving it still irrelevant because ball fell short end of story.

the reson I am not arguing the quality of the pass is becasue it was a piss poor pass and I have stated such in this thread, that said I am trying to determine, as per the conversation with North

1. Why if the scramble drill is to get to the endzone the receiver would not run full speed there,

2. Why Tebow would think that the receiver was going to come back to the ball.

I would think that if the receiver was to go to the endzone running full speed would 1, make it easier for the qb to throw it as it is the speed they are used to for timing, or 2 allow them to get into the endzone and stand still making for an easier pass. It is rarely ever the QB made a poor throw end of story. just because one player screwed up doesn't mean another player didn't screw up or there wasn't a miscommunication. A great example is the manning picks. It isn't he threw a pick end of story, it is it was a bad pass but the receiver rounded off his route throwing off the timing.

below is a picture of just after the ball was released, sorry about the quality best I could do with an Iphone

edit: the above questions are asked out of genuine curiosity not an attempt to allay blame. I really want to know if the receiver could/should have done different and why/why not it does not excuse the general shittyness of the pass.

1532

[GEM]

Saw the title and thought it said Manning fingers himself. :shocked:

[catfish]

Saw the title and thought it said Manning fingers himself. :shocked:

that would be the other Manning ;)

[topscribe]

Saw the title and thought it said Manning fingers himself. :shocked:
:tsk:
.

[NightTerror218]

Saw the title and thought it said Manning fingers himself. :shocked:

it was just that one time in Tennessee when he was experimenting in college.

[MOtorboat]

He was standing in the endzone !! Standing there! He was WIDE open! It was a 35 yard pass. There is no excuse for this one at all Cat.

The biggest issue to me isn't the throw.

It's that the quarterback couldn't recognize the blown coverage at all, and instead "scrambled" in the first place. The cornerback chucks the receiver at the line and plays a short zone, while the safety is in a deep half and the linebacker is nowhere to be seen. Hill is wide open less than a half second into the play and the quarterback is "scrambling" instead of sliding in the pocket. If he slides, he sees him and hits him.

That's the biggest issue on the play.

[GEM]

:tsk:
.



Sorry Topper, I scan thread titles fairly quick since I haven't been around here and reading that one quick lead to that conclusion. :lol:

[catfish]

The biggest issue to me isn't the throw.

It's that the quarterback couldn't recognize the blown coverage at all, and instead "scrambled" in the first place. The cornerback chucks the receiver at the line and plays a short zone, while the safety is in a deep half and the linebacker is nowhere to be seen. Hill is wide open less than a half second into the play and the quarterback is "scrambling" instead of sliding in the pocket. If he slides, he sees him and hits him.

That's the biggest issue on the play.

Just watching it again since it is being re broadcast now. His first read was double covered, his second read was hill, when he goes to his second read hill is covered and he starts to roll right where the back is uncovered in the flat, he pumps to the flat, the CB bites and moves to the flat leaving hill open Tebow probably should have thrown sooner, but he did go thorugh his progressions and the guys were covered at least decently until he was on the move. I can show screen caps if you want. Still a poor pass though

[Ravage!!!]

1. Why if the scramble drill is to get to the endzone the receiver would not run full speed there,

edit: the above questions are asked out of genuine curiosity not an attempt to allay blame. I really want to know if the receiver could/should have done different and why/why not it does not excuse the general shittyness of the pass.

You have asked this question a couple times, and I'll give an answer. WHy does the WR slow down? VERY VERY simple. He's SOOO wide open, there is NO REASON to sprint and make the throw harder for the QB. Not only does slowing down give the QB a LOT of field to throw to (instead of a hoola-hoop to a sprinting WR), but it gives the WR plenty of room as well. Since they were that close to the endzone, it would be foolish for him to run at full speed with a scrambling QB. If you are wide open, make it VERY easy for the QB to hit you. The faster you are moving, the smaller room for error on the throw (y ou would think).

If they were on their side of the field, then the WR probably would run (unless he felt that he would out run the QB's range). The QB was scrambling to his wrong side, the WR can see this, and knows the QB doesn't have the range he would from the pocket or if rolling to his strong side. But since they are near the endzone, Tebow can't just CHUCK it has hard as he can since he can't over throw the endzone anyway. Slow down, give the QB LOTS of field to throw it to, and run to the ball.

[catfish]

You have asked this question a couple times, and I'll give an answer. WHy does the WR slow down? VERY VERY simple. He's SOOO wide open, there is NO REASON to sprint and make the throw harder for the QB. Not only does slowing down give the QB a LOT of field to throw to (instead of a hoola-hoop to a sprinting WR), but it gives the WR plenty of room as well. Since they were that close to the endzone, it would be foolish for him to run at full speed with a scrambling QB. If you are wide open, make it VERY easy for the QB to hit you. The faster you are moving, the smaller room for error on the throw (y ou would think).

If they were on their side of the field, then the WR probably would run (unless he felt that he would out run the QB's range). The QB was scrambling to his wrong side, the WR can see this, and knows the QB doesn't have the range he would from the pocket or if rolling to his strong side. But since they are near the endzone, Tebow can't just CHUCK it has hard as he can since he can't over throw the endzone anyway. Slow down, give the QB LOTS of field to throw it to, and run to the ball.

that is a good reasonable answer. I can buy that.

[Ravage!!!]

that is a good reasonable answer. I can buy that.

The general rule when throwing a deep ball, is that you throw it where the WR can run to it, b the defender can't get to it. When you have a WR that is wide open, the general rule is simply "do not miss the throw." Meaning, don't try to him them in stride, don't try to be precise with the throw, just don't over throw. Put the ball out there, and be sure the WR can run to it even if that means slowing down, or stopping.

[catfish]

The general rule when throwing a deep ball, is that you throw it where the WR can run to it, b the defender can't get to it. When you have a WR that is wide open, the general rule is simply "do not miss the throw." Meaning, don't try to him them in stride, don't try to be precise with the throw, just don't over throw. Put the ball out there, and be sure the WR can run to it even if that means slowing down, or stopping.

I guess that was kind of my train of thought, maybe a bit of an arc on the ball and even if the receiver has to stop he has time to get back to it, instead it was a bullet short and the receiver didn't have time to react. by the time he realized how short the pass would be all he could do was dive at it and not quite get to it. Thank you for the answer

[Ravage!!!]

I guess that was kind of my train of thought, maybe a bit of an arc on the ball and even if the receiver has to stop he has time to get back to it, instead it was a bullet short and the receiver didn't have time to react. by the time he realized how short the pass would be all he could do was dive at it and not quite get to it. Thank you for the answer

I remember last year, Matt Cassel getting a lot of crap from KC Chief fans because of a deep ball he threw to the endzone, and it didn't "lead" the WR. The WR was wide wide open. Matt laid it out there, the receiver had to stop in front of the endzone to catch it. People were complaining that it was a "bad throw." Had he thrown that same ball while being covered, yeah, it would have been a bad throw. But when his WR was that wide open, he threw it so it was a "definite" catch-n-throw. No need to be perfect on something like that.

Moral of the story... cant please everyone.

[Dzone]

New Manning TV commercial.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000052703/article/peyton-manning-stars-in-directv-outtake-reel?module=HP11_content_stream