Moreno and Ayers among dwindling group.

[TXBRONC]

This is somewhat disconcerting. :tsk:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12975901

Moreno and Ayers among dwindling group.

As of Saturday evening, 19 first-round draft picks had signed. The 13 remaining unsigned first-rounders includes two Broncos, Moreno and defensive end/outside linebacker Robert Ayers.

This leads to the supposition the Broncos are either A) trying to maintain fiscal responsibility in reflection of the nation's economy or, B) struggling to make a deal in what has been a recession-proof first-round rookie pool.

The Broncos have recently submitted a contract proposal to Moreno, the No. 12 overall pick, which by itself represents progress. When the two sides do eventually shake hands, don't be surprised if Moreno's guarantee comes in at around $12.8 million — which would represent a 12 percent increase from last year's No. 12 pick, Ryan Clady.

Moreno's agents, Tom Condon and Ben Dogra, have pushed the first-round raise to as much as 20 percent in the case of No. 7 pick Darrius Heyward-Bey but accepted a 12 percent increase to get No. 13 pick Brian Orakpo signed with the Washington Redskins.

Moreno's negotiations may also pick up if the picks directly in front of him — No. 11 Aaron Maybin, No. 10 Michael Crabtree, No. 9 B.J. Raji and No. 8 Eugene Monroe — get signed.

Ayers would seem to be already slotted in at No. 18, except for the sizeable discrepancy in raises between No. 17 pick Josh Freeman and No. 16 Larry English.

Freeman, a quarterback, got a 16.8 percent raise in guarantee compared to last year's No. 17 pick; English, a pass-rushing linebacker, got a 10 percent raise.

A 10 percent raise for Ayers would put his guarantee at $9.2 million; a 16.8 percent raise would mean $9.8 million.

[hamrob]

We need to get these guys in. The difference at this point is minimal. You never had these problems with Shanny. I hope these two guys aren't shooting us all in the feet.

[Tned]

Frank Schwab of the Colorado Springs Gazzette just posted this tweet:


Just heard from Ayers' agent: "No progress." Most of the contracts around Ayers done, he's still a holdout

[nevcraw]

let's hope they come in shape..

[Tned]

let's hope they come in shape..

Yea, wouldn't that be ironic if they sign and then fail the conditioning test and can't participate in practice.

[ManchesterBroncoLUHG]

This may sound like a Johnny Know Nothing question but what happens if they don't sign? :confused:

[Tned]

This may sound like a Johnny Know Nothing question but what happens if they don't sign? :confused:

I'm not sure the exact rule, but for some period of time, the Broncos would retain their rights, and they couldn't sign with anyone else. I'm not sure how many years that time frame is.

[ManchesterBroncoLUHG]

I'm not sure the exact rule, but for some period of time, the Broncos would retain their rights, and they couldn't sign with anyone else. I'm not sure how many years that time frame is.

Thought it was something like that. After the time period is up would they be free agents I take it? Either way it would be a very dumb move not signing. Hopefully they'll both be signed up soon.

[silkamilkamonico]

I believe they have something like week 8 of the season to get the draft picks signed. If gthey aren't signed by then, the player is not allowed to sign a free agency contract and must wait till the following year to re-enter the draft. I'm not sure exactly what the details are but it's something like that.

It would NOT be in the player's best interest to not sign. They would most certainly lose draft status and millions of dollars with the hyped players that are conditioned in the draft every year.

I'm not worried about it. Cutler missed the first couple days of camp as well although I don't think it was this long. RB's and LB's are both relatively easy positions to adjust to for younger players entering the NFL.

[ManchesterBroncoLUHG]

I believe they have something like week 8 of the season to get the draft picks signed. If gthey aren't signed by then, the player is not allowed to sign a free agency contract and must wait till the following year to re-enter the draft. I'm not sure exactly what the details are but it's something like that.

It would NOT be in the player's best interest to not sign. They would most certainly lose draft status and millions of dollars with the hyped players that are conditioned in the draft every year.

I'm not worried about it. Cutler missed the first couple days of camp as well although I don't think it was this long. RB's and LB's are both relatively easy positions to adjust to for younger players entering the NFL.

That appears to be right. Just googled this. Bo Jackson turned down the Bucs after their insistance that he gave up playing Baseball. The Raiders then drafted him in the next year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Jackson

[TXBRONC]

Frank Schwab of the Colorado Springs Gazzette just posted this tweet:

I wonder what the hold up is on both of these guys?

[topscribe]

This is somewhat disconcerting. :tsk:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12975901

Moreno and Ayers among dwindling group.

As of Saturday evening, 19 first-round draft picks had signed. The 13 remaining unsigned first-rounders includes two Broncos, Moreno and defensive end/outside linebacker Robert Ayers.

This leads to the supposition the Broncos are either A) trying to maintain fiscal responsibility in reflection of the nation's economy or, B) struggling to make a deal in what has been a recession-proof first-round rookie pool.

The Broncos have recently submitted a contract proposal to Moreno, the No. 12 overall pick, which by itself represents progress. When the two sides do eventually shake hands, don't be surprised if Moreno's guarantee comes in at around $12.8 million — which would represent a 12 percent increase from last year's No. 12 pick, Ryan Clady.

Moreno's agents, Tom Condon and Ben Dogra, have pushed the first-round raise to as much as 20 percent in the case of No. 7 pick Darrius Heyward-Bey but accepted a 12 percent increase to get No. 13 pick Brian Orakpo signed with the Washington Redskins.

Moreno's negotiations may also pick up if the picks directly in front of him — No. 11 Aaron Maybin, No. 10 Michael Crabtree, No. 9 B.J. Raji and No. 8 Eugene Monroe — get signed.

Ayers would seem to be already slotted in at No. 18, except for the sizeable discrepancy in raises between No. 17 pick Josh Freeman and No. 16 Larry English.

Freeman, a quarterback, got a 16.8 percent raise in guarantee compared to last year's No. 17 pick; English, a pass-rushing linebacker, got a 10 percent raise.

A 10 percent raise for Ayers would put his guarantee at $9.2 million; a 16.8 percent raise would mean $9.8 million.

Man, I would love to see Tater back in the mix, in any case. Even though I
was one of his worst critics when he was with the Broncos before, he really
tore up the field last year, once he got back into football shape . . . and he
was actually running between the tackles. :nod:

Tater would certainly be the fastest back in the group, and his improvement
was amazing, to me, anyway.

-----

[Tned]

I wonder what the hold up is on both of these guys?

Well, at least part of it is the monkey wrench thrown in by the Raiders signing their WR to a 20% premium over the same spot last year. I believe Moreno has the same agent as Bey or whoever that Raider's WR is, so he is probably holding out for 20% over the 12 spot last year, when the Broncos were looking for 10-12% increase over what they paid Clady.

Beyond that, it's hard to know, since not much word is getting out.

[Nomad]

I hope Moreno and Ayers is worth all this BS!!

[EMB6903]

this is just part of the business.. I know its new for Broncos fans because with Shanahan Denver was rarely in this situation but lets not get too concerned.... these players are going to be signing long term deals.... missing a couple of training camp practices isnt such a big deal.

[Nomad]

this is just part of the business.. I know its new for Broncos fans because with Shanahan Denver was rarely in this situation but lets not get too concerned.... these players are going to be signing long term deals.... missing a couple of training camp practices isnt such a big deal.

It may be part of the business but I don't agree with it especially with Moreno and Ayers being unproven rookies. I know the old cliche 'these guys need to get as much money as they can' but I would rather see the money go to proven veterans. Just my personal opinion!!!

[topscribe]

I hope Moreno and Ayers is worth all this BS!!

Without being inside their respective situations, my knee-jerk reaction is that I
would be tempted to tell my agent to get my butt signed so I can get onto that
practice field. Not only have they yet to have any action on the pro level, but
McDaniels is teaching brand new systems on both sides of the ball.

They are two impact players who will be gradually turning themselves into
backups for this season, it would seem. :tsk:

-----

[Nomad]

Without being inside their respective situations, my knee-jerk reaction is that I
would be tempted to tell my agent to get my butt signed so I can get onto that
practice field. Not only have they yet to have any action on the pro level, but
McDaniels is teaching brand new systems on both sides of the ball.

They are two impact players who will be gradually turning themselves into
backups for this season, it would seem. :tsk:

-----

You explain it so much better than I do!:D

[rcsodak]

You explain it so much better than I do!:D


I doubt these 'kids' even know what the hell is going on, other than being told by their respective agents, "don't say anything to the media - I'll do the talking. Denver NEEDS you, you'll be practicing before long. This is how it's played".

In the meantime, their first PS game is in less than two weeks.

This is when you need players that can think for themselves, and have the 'nads to TELL their agents to "JUST GET IT DONE, DAMMIT!"

[Lonestar]

I think unless they changed the rules that we retain their rights until the next draft.. they are Broncos property till then..

not sure I'm going to believe wikipedia for the minute details.. since I could re write that portion..

[Lonestar]

the way Hillis is performing in OTA and TC Moreno may be playing second fiddle in sept..

[Nomad]

the way Hillis is performing in OTA and TC Moreno may be playing second fiddle in sept..

Hopefully Hillis doesn't bang up the defense too much at TC!:lol:

[BroncoAV06]

Without being inside their respective situations, my knee-jerk reaction is that I
would be tempted to tell my agent to get my butt signed so I can get onto that
practice field. Not only have they yet to have any action on the pro level, but
McDaniels is teaching brand new systems on both sides of the ball.

They are two impact players who will be gradually turning themselves into
backups for this season, it would seem. :tsk:

-----

Agree, with anyother player, ie Marshall people would be all up in arms and ready to trade them away. But again its easy for all of us to sit here and say hell I would be fine with x amount of money but its a whole different world. The potential for big bucks is there, they make alot of money, don't live like the rest of us, things like this will always happen.

[Nomad]

I read this at BM and someone received a tweet from Schefter.


Quote:
Adam_Schefter: Denver has switched its emphasis from signing Robert Ayers first to Knowshon Moreno first. But you never know how these go.

[OrangeHoof]

I don't think this is any big deal, especially for Moreno. They want to know what the players above them sign for before they finalize the numbers. Ayers could be a different story.

As to the question about what happens if they don't sign, I remember the story with Drew Henson the Texans drafted in 2003 who was in the Yankees farm system but was a QB at Michigan. The Texans couldn't sign him but they held the rights until the next draft year so they dealt him to Dallas a few weeks before the 2004 draft and Dallas signed him.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think this is any big deal, especially for Moreno. They want to know what the players above them sign for before they finalize the numbers. Ayers could be a different story.

As to the question about what happens if they don't sign, I remember the story with Drew Henson the Texans drafted in 2003 who was in the Yankees farm system but was a QB at Michigan. The Texans couldn't sign him but they held the rights until the next draft year so they dealt him to Dallas a few weeks before the 2004 draft and Dallas signed him.

If I'm not mistaken the players chosen at 17 and 19 have already signed with their respective teams so I wonder what the hang up is for Ayers.

I don't know if the 11th overall pick has already signed but what I do know is that same agents that represent Moreno also represent Heyward-Bey (the 7th overall pick in the draft) and he got 20% increase in pay over last year's 7th overall pick.

[topscribe]

If I'm not mistaken the players chosen at 17 and 19 have already signed with their respective teams so I wonder what the hang up is for Ayers.

I don't if the 11th overall pick has already signed but what I do know is that same agents that represent Moreno also represent Heyward-Bey (the 7th overall pick in the draft) and he got 20% increase in pay over last year's 7th overall pick.

Especially after they apparently had a contract in place. If I understand right,
it was the NFL who nixed it, so one would think they would just need to fix
whatever the league wanted them to, and there you go. Puzzling . . .

-----

[rcsodak]

If I'm not mistaken the players chosen at 17 and 19 have already signed with their respective teams so I wonder what the hang up is for Ayers.

I don't if the 11th overall pick has already signed but what I do know is that same agents that represent Moreno also represent Heyward-Bey (the 7th overall pick in the draft) and he got 20% increase in pay over last year's 7th overall pick.

Well, by reading the articles, the agents/teams are not making it easy. Some are giving 10% raises....others, 17-20%.

At some point, FO's need to come up with an easier way of deciding these things.

QB's get XX% increase
RB's get XY% increase
WR's get YY% increase
OL/DL/LB/DB, et al

Maybe then, it won't matter what the 11th pick gets before the 12th will sign...unless they play the same positions.

Regardless.....LESS THAN 2 WKS OF TC BEFORE THE 1ST PS GAME!!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

Well, by reading the articles, the agents/teams are not making it easy. Some are giving 10% raises....others, 17-20%.

At some point, FO's need to come up with an easier way of deciding these things.

QB's get XX% increase
RB's get XY% increase
WR's get YY% increase
OL/DL/LB/DB, et al

Maybe then, it won't matter what the 11th pick gets before the 12th will sign...unless they play the same positions.

Regardless.....LESS THAN 2 WKS OF TC BEFORE THE 1ST PS GAME!!!!!!

That's not a bad idea, but I think it would be better just have rookie salaries based on where they are drafted rather than on what position they play.

[rcsodak]

That's not a bad idea, but I think it would be better just have rookie salaries based on where they are drafted rather than on what position they play.

Well, that's where we are now......minus a few stupid FO's.....


But I can't see where a starting QB, taken by a team needing one, at #7, will be getting paid less than a C, taken at #6. Radical example I know, but it makes my point, nonetheless.

[UnderArmour]

Without being inside their respective situations, my knee-jerk reaction is that I
would be tempted to tell my agent to get my butt signed so I can get onto that
practice field. Not only have they yet to have any action on the pro level, but
McDaniels is teaching brand new systems on both sides of the ball.

They are two impact players who will be gradually turning themselves into
backups for this season, it would seem. :tsk:

-----

If I'm one of these players and I'm looking at the way Brandon Marshall is being handled, I'm saying "Hell no, get me my money now. I'm not dealing with this shit after I make the Pro Bowl and earn a new contract because I was in a rush to get into camp my rookie year. I need my money now." Or I'm looking at Jarvis Moss on the verge of retiring and saying, "Oh shit, that could be me. If I don't get my pay day now this could be my only chance!".

Some fans are too quick to take the owner's side. While it's great to have players in camp learning and participating with the team, this is a business. You can't always expect the concessions to come from the players and for them to take discounts below their slotted value or get cheated out of incentives.

[topscribe]

If I'm one of these players and I'm looking at the way Brandon Marshall is being handled, I'm saying "Hell no, get me my money now. I'm not dealing with this shit after I make the Pro Bowl and earn a new contract because I was in a rush to get into camp my rookie year. I need my money now." Or I'm looking at Jarvis Moss on the verge of retiring and saying, "Oh shit, that could be me. If I don't get my pay day now this could be my only chance!".

Some fans are too quick to take the owner's side. While it's great to have players in camp learning and participating with the team, this is a business. You can't always expect the concessions to come from the players and for them to take discounts below their slotted value or get cheated out of incentives.

If you got out of my post that I took the owner's side, then you need to go
back and read it again, only this time a little more slowly.

My point was that they are on the verge of falling way behind. That was my
point. I thought I wrote it on a fairly elementary level . . .

-----

[dogfish]

If I'm one of these players and I'm looking at the way Brandon Marshall is being handled, I'm saying "Hell no, get me my money now. I'm not dealing with this shit after I make the Pro Bowl and earn a new contract because I was in a rush to get into camp my rookie year. I need my money now." Or I'm looking at Jarvis Moss on the verge of retiring and saying, "Oh shit, that could be me. If I don't get my pay day now this could be my only chance!".

Some fans are too quick to take the owner's side. While it's great to have players in camp learning and participating with the team, this is a business. You can't always expect the concessions to come from the players and for them to take discounts below their slotted value or get cheated out of incentives.


ahhh, but it's really, REALLY easy for fans to condemn the players for their greed, and say they should settle for less to get into camp on time. . . it's not going to affect their wallet. . . .

[Nomad]

You know I'll never reach the status of an NFL player and will never make what they do so I could give a rat's ass about their finances. All I care about is the BRONCOS coming together as a team and winning games. Sitting around with your thumb up your butt because you're an unproven rookie who thinks he deserves this money shows me where they stand especially while the team is moving on and games start in a couple weeks. I guess you could say I'm a BRONCOS fan first and player fan second, in other words, I'm rooting for the guys on the field right now!!!

BTW, Marshall brought this on to himself. The BRONCOS would have been glad to give him a pay raise for his production on the field but he can't stay out of the legal system and I don't blame the BRONCOS for holding back.

[Fan in Exile]

If I'm not mistaken the players chosen at 17 and 19 have already signed with their respective teams so I wonder what the hang up is for Ayers.

I don't if the 11th overall pick has already signed but what I do know is that same agents that represent Moreno also represent Heyward-Bey (the 7th overall pick in the draft) and he got 20% increase in pay over last year's 7th overall pick.

I would guess the hang up with Ayers is about his position. If he's playing LB that's a lower payscale than DE. But he was drafted as a DE. I could really see this being a huge mess.

[TXBRONC]

You know I'll never reach the status of an NFL player and will never make what they do so I could give a rat's ass about their finances. All I care about is the BRONCOS coming together as a team and winning games. Sitting around with your thumb up your butt because you're an unproven rookie who thinks he deserves this money shows me where they stand especially while the team is moving on and games start in a couple weeks. I guess you could say I'm a BRONCOS fan first and player fan second, in other words, I'm rooting for the guys on the field right now!!!

BTW, Marshall brought this on to himself. The BRONCOS would have been glad to give him a pay raise for his production on the field but he can't stay out of the legal system and I don't blame the BRONCOS for holding back.

Blitz how do we know that its not the front office trying underpay the player?

[LRtagger]

ahhh, but it's really, REALLY easy for fans to condemn the players for their greed, and say they should settle for less to get into camp on time. . . it's not going to affect their wallet. . . .

The same can be said for those that say "just pay Marshall what he wants"...it is not affecting their wallet.

[Tned]

Not sure if this is true:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Maclin_This_Time_For_Real.html


Monday, August 3, 2009
Maclin: This Time For Real?
A source close to the situation said this morning that Denver has reached agreement with the player drafted 18th overall, defensive end Robert Ayers, a development the source indicated should lead to a quick resolution of the Jeremy Maclin drama.

We should probably point out here that there has been no announcement of an Ayers deal, and we have been unable to independently confirm there is an agreement.

Maclin, drafted 19th overall by the Eagles, has missed more than a week of camp. Previously, deals for other receivers, such as wideout Percy Harvin, taken 22nd by the Vikings, were thought to be keys to getting Maclin done, but Harvin signed Sunday and Maclin did not.

When the deal is consummated, it likely will be for five years.

[TXBRONC]

Not sure if this is true:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Maclin_This_Time_For_Real.html

I sure hope that's accurate.

[Italianmobstr7]

On Adam Schefters Twitter he just tweeted "Denver and Robert Ayers are thisclose to reaching agreement. Still a few minor issues to work out, but they're thisclose."

[TXBRONC]

On Adam Schefters Twitter he just tweeted "Denver and Robert Ayers are thisclose to reaching agreement. Still a few minor issues to work out, but they're thisclose."

Maybe they'll have Ayers under contract before the end of the day.

I wonder how close Moreno is to inking a contract?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Maybe they'll have Ayers under contract before the end of the day.

I wonder how close Moreno is to inking a contract?

They probably need Crabtree to sign to set the market. The Raiders screwed up a quick Crabtree signing by over paying for Heyward-Bey.

[broncofaninfla]

Sports agents make me sick to my stomach.

[BroncoWave]

Sports agents make me sick to my stomach.

I don't have a problem with them. They are just doing their job trying to get the best contract for their clients. While it may seem unfair that they are causing them to miss camp, it would also be unfair to his client to agree to a shitty contract for him just to get him into camp on time.

[TXBRONC]

I don't have a problem with them. They are just doing their job trying to get the best contract for their clients. While it may seem unfair that they are causing them to miss camp, it would also be unfair to his client to agree to a shitty contract for him just to get him into camp on time.

It's not always the agents, front offices aren't always offering up the best possible deals.

[TXBRONC]

They probably need Crabtree to sign to set the market. The Raiders screwed up a quick Crabtree signing by over paying for Heyward-Bey.

It's also worth noting that the agency that represents Heyward-Bey also represents Moreno.

[BroncoWave]

It's not always the agents, front offices aren't always offering up the best possible deals.

That's the exact point I was making. Can't blame the agent if the team makes a poor offer which causes delays of the player getting into camp.

[Traveler]

That's the exact point I was making. Can't blame the agent if the team makes a poor offer which causes delays of the player getting into camp.

Is that a veiled shot at this FO?

[BroncoWave]

Is that a veiled shot at this FO?

Not at all. If you've read any of my recent posts I've been very supportive of the new regime. I have no idea what kind of offers the Broncos have made and how fair they are.

My post was simply defending agents in saying that if they don't feel the team's offer is fair they shouldn't be obligated to have their client sign it just to get them to camp on time.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2009/08/03/broncos-close-to-signing-ayers/

Broncos close to signing Ayers
by Mike Klis on August 3, 2009


Negotiations between the Broncos and their No. 18 overall draft pick, outside linebacker Robert Ayers, are in the final stages. The two sides are trying to hammer out details on a five-year contract in hopes Ayers can participate in today’s afternoon workout. If not, Ayers should be signed in time for the lone training camp practice tomorrow afternoon.

Ayers and running back Knowshon Moreno, who the Broncos took with the No. 12 overall pick in the draft, reached Day 4 of their contract holdout Monday morning. The Broncos are also hoping they can get Moreno signed so he can participate in tomorrow’s practice.

[TXBRONC]

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2009/08/03/broncos-close-to-signing-ayers/

Broncos close to signing Ayers
by Mike Klis on August 3, 2009


Negotiations between the Broncos and their No. 18 overall draft pick, outside linebacker Robert Ayers, are in the final stages. The two sides are trying to hammer out details on a five-year contract in hopes Ayers can participate in today’s afternoon workout. If not, Ayers should be signed in time for the lone training camp practice tomorrow afternoon.

Ayers and running back Knowshon Moreno, who the Broncos took with the No. 12 overall pick in the draft, reached Day 4 of their contract holdout Monday morning. The Broncos are also hoping they can get Moreno signed so he can participate in tomorrow’s practice.

That would be great if they could get both Moreno and Ayers signed by tomorrow.

[Tned]

Scheffter is reporting it is a done deal now.

[TXBRONC]

Does Ayers have time to get onto the practice field?