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MasterShake
08-08-2012, 12:57 PM
I think most of us can agree that this upcoming season is one of the most optimistic ones in recent memory. The closest this probably comes for me as far as excitement is maybe around the time we drafted Cutler and had just came off that great season in 2005 even though I'd end up really missing Plummer (so sue me, I liked him! :lol:).

Anyway, before things get rolling with preseason game #1 of what is hopefully a good time for Broncos fans, I am curious as to what your darkest moment as a Broncos fan was? I'm not really talking about eras (such as the McDaniels era) but maybe a game or event that really made you not want to watch football anymore because it was just such a bad time.

Hands down for me it had to be the infamous Raiders home loss a few years ago. Getting steamrolled at home is bad enough, but to lose like that to the RAIDERS was gut wrenching. Before that easily the worst day as a Broncos fan for me was the double punch of getting knocked out of the playoffs against San Francisco than the Darrent Williams shooting after. That was the darkest offseason ever.

Just wanted to do this to offer a little perspective of how cool these times could be in contrast to the past. What are some of your worst fan moments? Firing Shannahan? Getting blown out in a Super Bowl? TD going down? The *shudder* Jacksonville Playoff loss?

shank
08-08-2012, 01:02 PM
getting knocked out of the playoffs against San Francisco than the Darrent Williams shooting after.

this. i didn't give 2 flying twinkie shitting rats asses about anything football from that morning until the draft.

MasterShake
08-08-2012, 01:07 PM
this. i didn't give 2 flying twinkie shitting rats asses about anything football from that morning until the draft.

That was just so depressing. It really was the marker for a really dark period for the Broncos up until our playoff run last year. The whole team fell apart it seemed.

jhildebrand
08-08-2012, 01:11 PM
San Fran and Redskin SB beatdowns followed by everything McDaniels!

Denver Native (Carol)
08-08-2012, 01:16 PM
For me personally was when my sister's name was drawn for 4 superbowl tickets for the Broncos/Washington SB game in SD. We drove out there, was so excited, was great sitting there with the Broncos scoring the first 10 points, AND THEN EVERYTHING WENT INTO THE TOILET.

BroncoNut
08-08-2012, 01:18 PM
For me personally was when my sister's name was drawn for 4 superbowl tickets for the Broncos/Washington SB game in SD. We drove out there, was so excited, was great sitting there with the Broncos scoring the first 10 points, AND THEN EVERYTHING WENT INTO THE TOILET.

"were so excited" Carol. Were. (unless you ghetto of course)

Ravage!!!
08-08-2012, 01:19 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

BroncoNut
08-08-2012, 01:20 PM
my darkest moments were in the back seat of tubby's S-10

The Glue Factory
08-08-2012, 01:23 PM
Sept 30, 1990. One of the years that Buffalo went to the SB.

Elway and Co. were up 21-9 at the start of the 4th quarter. Handling the hapless Bills easily. Until disaster struck! We had lined up for a short Treadwell FG to put us up 24-9. The kick was blocked and run back for a TD (21-16.) The next offensive play Elway throws a pick-6 (21-22 the extra point was no good.) On the ensuing KO we fumble and they return it to the 2 and the following play results in 7 more points. 21-29 Bills. All that happened in the span of 70 seconds in the first 5 minutes of the quarter.

The next two drives were pitiful. Denver couldn't do anything right except keep them from putting up more points. The last drive resulted in a Denver TD to make it a 28-29 final. If only the 2 pt conversion rule was alive back then. I felt like throwing up after that 20 point run.

BroncoJoe
08-08-2012, 01:27 PM
The day Elway retired. TD's knee injury.

MasterShake
08-08-2012, 01:29 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

That damn Jacksonville game. I was physically ill for about 3 days after. I never heard the old Mile High that quiet.

Chef Zambini
08-08-2012, 01:33 PM
no on the field performance or loss can match the loss of life.
losses are devastating, but I never lost my faith and loyalty to the broncos!
I was not proud to be a bronco fan when billromonowski spit ina wide receivers face (SF)
bill was scum. I did not like him wearing a bronco uniform!
shanny?
I was glad when they finally cut that figurehead loose!
TD going down...
Mike anderson going down
every soperbowl loss, tough to take!
the loss to the NY giants to end a perfect season...
our last 4 games against the ravens...
lots of bad memories, but nothing that diminished my love for my team.

MasterShake
08-08-2012, 01:35 PM
no on the field performance or loss can match the loss of life.
losses are devastating, but I never lost my faith and loyalty to the broncos!
I was not proud to be a bronco fan when billromonowski spit ina wide receivers face (SF)
bill was scum. I did not like him wearing a bronco uniform!
shanny?
I was glad when they finally cut that figurehead loose!
TD going down...
Mike anderson going down
every soperbowl loss, tough to take!
the loss to the NY giants to end a perfect season...
our last 4 games against the ravens...
lots of bad memories, but nothing that diminished my love for my team.


Oh yeah, that Giants loss to end our perfect season was tough too. But I think it took some pressure off us as well.

Chef Zambini
08-08-2012, 01:36 PM
when we lost in early september and eddie mac broke his leg, I thought that was devastating, but that was september 10th. The next day we all saw what real devistation was, and how relatively meaningless football is!

Simple Jaded
08-08-2012, 01:40 PM
The 2nd qtr of Super Bowl XXII.......

Denver Native (Carol)
08-08-2012, 01:46 PM
"were so excited" Carol. Were. (unless you ghetto of course)

Were you there also - LOL

BroncoNut
08-08-2012, 01:52 PM
Were you there also - LOL

nope, I wasn't.

BroncoWave
08-08-2012, 01:56 PM
The 2005 AFCCG. We had everything on a silver freaking platter that year. The one team we could just not beat, the Colts, had just been knocked out, we were 9-0 at home and had a home game for the AFCCG, and on the NFC side was one of the worst teams ever to make the SB. You couldn't draw up a better way for things to fall in the postseason if you tried. That season still makes me angry to think about.

Watchthemiddle
08-08-2012, 02:01 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

Hands down...the J Ville game. We could have should have 3 peated

My second was when TD got hurt. That was a dark day for me as a fan. Coming off of back to back super bowls...all Greise needed to do was manage the offense and we could have continued our dominance..but nope..he had to throw that pick and TD being the team player that he was went to make the tackle and essentially ended his career.

Chef Zambini
08-08-2012, 02:07 PM
The day Elway retired. TD's knee injury.it was tough to watch, but I was happy for JE. he went out like every player would want their career to end! totral storybook ending, all that adversity, and then to go out on top and ride into the sunset... perfect. TDs injury, I always held out hope he could recover, not to be.

Dzone
08-08-2012, 02:10 PM
The 4 Super Bowl Losses and the Jacksonville playoff loss at Mile High.
TDs knee injury in 99 was awful, as was the entire 99 season.
The Mcdaniels fiasco and giving Cutler away

The infamous "half a loaf game"-In a 1971 game against the Miami Dolphins, the Broncos ran out the clock rather than trying to break a 10-10 tie -- and afterward, Coach Lou Saban explained his decision by declaring, "Half a loaf is better than none."

Traveler
08-08-2012, 02:13 PM
For me, it will always be the beatdown against the Redskins in the SB. I was in the military at the time and many of my buddies were from the DC area. We actually took leave and went to DC. I was so confident (read stupid) I bet almost $1200 bucks Denver would win.

After the 2nd quarter ended, I actually went outside and cried like a baby. It's one thing to lose, but to lose the way they did in that game was literally sickening. The verbal abuse I took from my buddies watching Tony Lilly & Mark Haynes getting toasted with astonishing regularity added more insult to injury.

BroncoWave
08-08-2012, 02:15 PM
Whenever I read threads like this I feel very fortunate that my first memories of the Broncos came after the 4 SB losses. I don't know how I would cope with watching the Broncos losing a Super Bowl.

Softskull
08-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Jacksonville. Never had a game where the hopes were so high and then dashed. I still say Perry every time I spit.

Denver's first SB loss to Dallas. I was still young enough to believe in underdogs.

vandammage13
08-08-2012, 03:01 PM
Mark Brunell and Natrone Means ripping us a new ******* back in '96 ranks pretty high for me.

Should have been 3 in a row.

Ravage!!!
08-08-2012, 03:03 PM
Moving back into the first round to draft Tim Tebow.

CoachChaz
08-08-2012, 03:04 PM
February 1, 1988. In Eastern Pennsylvania, the Eagles rule. But right behind the Eagles are the Steelers and the Redskins. I had a ton of friends that were Skins fans and being that I was a cocky, Bronco loving, high school kid...I talked a lot of shit and made a lot of bets. As a result, I took a verbal beating, paid out about $250 and had to go to indoor baseball workouts in nothing but shoes and my jock...and I was a catcher.

Needless to say, I havent made a bet since then and I still have pictures of Doug Williams, Timmy Smith and Ricky Sanders on my dartboard

BroncoJoe
08-08-2012, 03:05 PM
The 94 game against the Chiefs when Montana won the game in the final 80 seconds or so still gnaws at me. First victory at Mile High for Schottenheimer IIRC.

Ravage!!!
08-08-2012, 03:07 PM
February 1, 1988. In Eastern Pennsylvania, the Eagles rule. But right behind the Eagles are the Steelers and the Redskins. I had a ton of friends that were Skins fans and being that I was a cocky, Bronco loving, high school kid...I talked a lot of shit and made a lot of bets. As a result, I took a verbal beating, paid out about $250 and had to go to indoor baseball workouts in nothing but shoes and my jock...and I was a catcher.

Needless to say, I havent made a bet since then and I still have pictures of Doug Williams, Timmy Smith and Ricky Sanders on my dartboard

I was scared as I was reading this that you were saying that you still had a picture of you in that jock at practice.

CoachChaz
08-08-2012, 03:13 PM
I was scared as I was reading this that you were saying that you still had a picture of you in that jock at practice.

No, but someone did try to submit it to the yearbook committee. I was 16 and did steroids back then...at the time, it was a much prettier picture than what I have to offer today.

tomjonesrocks
08-08-2012, 03:41 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

I agree with almost all of this. Daren't Williams has to be the franchise's worst moment from a human standpoint but the Cutler trade is the only thing in 3 decades of following the team where I had no interest in watching. I canceled my DirecTV ticket and did not watch any Broncos football until the very end of the next season, well after the fast start. I was so furious about that trade I doubted seriously any level of interest in the Broncos would return. Still one of the stupidest, boneheaded trades ever.

Would put the Jax loss next. TD's injury would be after that if I had any idea at the time he would never really return. The Super Bowl losses were awful but those were still thrilling seasons.

Canmore
08-08-2012, 03:44 PM
The 94 game against the Chiefs when Montana won the game in the final 80 seconds or so still gnaws at me. First victory at Mile High for Schottenheimer IIRC.

There was 8 seconds on the clock when the chiefs scored. I really hated that game.

Watchthemiddle
08-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Drafting Cutler to replace Plummer after the AFCCG....if SHanny had his ego in check and drafted Defense....that team was built for a Super Bowl..but his drafting of Cutler tore the team apart.

jhildebrand
08-08-2012, 03:56 PM
Matt Lepsis torpedoing TD's knee.

The entire Orton era.

Ravage!!!
08-08-2012, 04:01 PM
No, but someone did try to submit it to the yearbook committee. I was 16 and did steroids back then...at the time, it was a much prettier picture than what I have to offer today.

*cringe*.... pretty is in the eye of the beholder

12and4
08-08-2012, 04:01 PM
8-5 3 games up 3 games to go

OrangeHoof
08-08-2012, 04:12 PM
For me, it was the '96 playoff loss to the Jags. Typically, when you lose in the Super Bowl or the playoffs, you can at least console yourself that the team got as far as they could. You couldn't say that about the Jags game. We were at home and we were expected to kick their expansion asses and we were a step behind the entire game. I *knew* we were the better team and the feeling we had blown our chance just made me sick.

shank
08-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Drafting Cutler to replace Plummer after the AFCCG....if SHanny had his ego in check and drafted Defense....that team was built for a Super Bowl..but his drafting of Cutler tore the team apart.

i don't know about all that, but it was a turning point. i think plummer could have given us a legitimate shot with some real help on D.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Sewell's fumble in 1991.

The pass interference call in the Jaguars loss (most people remember Michael Dean Perry, I remember the bullshit PI on (I think) Charles Dimry).

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 04:32 PM
8-5 3 games up 3 games to go

Five of the last six years...

dogfish
08-08-2012, 05:28 PM
the day they finally banned natureboi from the board for good. . .

Cugel
08-08-2012, 05:36 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

It was horribly depressing watching the Broncos first SB loss to the team I hated the most, the Cowboys. Then four SB beat-downs culminated by the 55-10 blowout to the 49ers, and then watching Johnnie Carson make jokes about the Broncos. :throwrock:

But the only time I seriously considered just giving up totally on being a Broncos fan was during the McMoron era. Watching that imbecile systematically destroy the entire team, and having to endure the savage taunts of the imbecilic faithful chanting "we're 6-0 baby!" and "Orton is SOOOO much better than Cry-Baby Cutler!" etc.

It felt like being on a bus with lunatics at the wheel heading for the Grand Canyon. Nothing to do but get off the bus.

I had pretty much decided by 2010 that I wasn't going to watch the next season if McMoron was still in charge. I'd just give up on the Broncos totally for the first time since 1977.

Then, spygate happened and he was FIRED!

"After 40 years of plague and darkness! Oh, Lord! Finally, a light!" --- Al Bundy

sneakers
08-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Prolly the superbowl loss against the 49ers, when you are a 10 year old boy at school and like the broncos, and all the other kids like the 49ers, and broncos lose 55-10, it means you don't go to school for 3 days after the loss....and still get made fun of.


edit: also the time I went to see the broncos play the packers in green bay in '96 (broncos were 12-1 and rested Elway) and crappy jeff lewis started at qb and broncos lost 41-6 or something like that.

edit: playoff loss against the bills in 91 was sad for me

sneakers
08-08-2012, 05:55 PM
the day they finally banned natureboi from the board for good. . .

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/ric_flair.jpg

Buff
08-08-2012, 05:55 PM
Mine don't necessarily represent the worst moments for the franchise, just some of my worst memories of being a fan:

The Devin Hester/Todd Sauerbrun loss in Chicago in 2007 left me in one of the foulest moods ever. I remember turning off the TV and sitting alone in the dark, fuming, in silence. Then I remember my ex-GF come into the room and lecturing me for taking it too seriously. That was a low point.

Getting blown out 52-21 in San Diego in Shanny's final year with a playoff birth on the line was a low point because that was like the climax of a number of years of Charger domination over us. Our defense was hopeless. I didn't even care about the playoffs that year because I was so disgusted with football.

The 52-14 Raiders blowout makes the list because that was one of the moments where I took off my orange colored glasses and wondered how we had fallen so far. Then pretty much all of 2010... Including spygate II, getting Jay Feely'd on national TV, blowing a winnable game at home against the Jets, etc.

There are plenty more, but those were the first that came to mind.

DenBronx
08-08-2012, 05:56 PM
I will list three things that made my stomach turn for months and even years. Still to this day I don't like these scenarios.

#1. The Cutler trade. I absolutely hated it. I don't think I will ever understand why our owner let this happen. This is maybe the one single thing that has ever made me not want to watch Broncos football or rebel against it. We had all the makings of something special and really just needed help on defense. I would much rather have watched a Cutler ran offense over an Orton/Tebow offense for the past three years. I remind you all we had the #2 ranked offense the year before and then with ONE single trade it all began to dismantle. Having Elway, Fox and Manning has really helped put confidence in me that this organization is serious about winning another SuperBowl and that's what I want the most. I want to see the Broncos get back to dominating football.

#2. The loss to the raiders. 59-13. Look maybe some of you Broncos fans don't really understand it this way but I live an hour from Oakland. Alot of my friends, my dad or just people who live here are raider fans. I hate the raiders with a passion. So when the Broncos lose to them I hear it for weeks and after that loss I heard it for a year. I lost a really big bet on top of it. I had already hated what McDaniels did to this team. Life really sucked for a long long time. So, when we smacked them pretty bad last year it helped forget this a bit. I only hope with Manning we really crush them bad for the next few years.

#3. Everything McDaniels.

DenBronx
08-08-2012, 05:57 PM
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/ric_flair.jpg


He was only one of the few reasons I ever liked Wrestling. Still to this day he will own you with the mic.

sneakers
08-08-2012, 05:58 PM
8-5 3 games up 3 games to go

uhhhh this has happened many times, you know lol

sneakers
08-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Also the day they cut Ron Dayne. I was sad.

DenBronx
08-08-2012, 06:00 PM
the day they finally banned natureboi from the board for good. . .

The day alot of the Tebois became Jet fans.....I guess that wasnt a dark day. lol


It might have been one of the best days though. :)

DenBronx
08-08-2012, 06:02 PM
uhhhh this has happened many times, you know lol

I think its happend 3x within the last 8 years. Down the stretch all we had to do was win one more game. Twice we got knocked out of the playoffs for it and last year we backed into the playoffs.

Timmy!
08-08-2012, 06:34 PM
when we lost in early september and eddie mac broke his leg, I thought that was devastating, but that was september 10th. The next day we all saw what real devistation was, and how relatively meaningless football is!

The Broncos won that game Zam, it was the first game at the new stadium.

OrangeHoof
08-08-2012, 07:10 PM
then watching Johnnie Carson make jokes about the Broncos.

One of the best put-downs I've ever read came in the early '90s in a Sports Illustrated article about a Broncos preseason game in Berlin. Noting the Germans had decided to root for the Broncos, the author noted "but the Germans and the Broncos have something in common - neither can win the big one."

Even as a Bronco fan, I got a big laugh from that one. Of course, it's nice knowing that the Broncos CAN win the big one and the Germans still can't.

AlWilsonizKING
08-08-2012, 07:52 PM
Losing to the 49ers in the SB by the largest margin ever.....................ON MY BIRTHDAY. I thought it was going to be the greatest Bday ever. I mean come on, the Bronc's playing in the SB on my Bday.....what could be better. Well it quickly went the other way and let me say I was devastated. My dad even threw all of his Broncos stuff in the fireplace and burned it all....except for the blanket I managed to yank out before the flames burned it (still have it to this day...serves as a cover for my keyboard/turntables.) I had to eat so much crow when I went back to school. Everyone laughing and yelling "Broncos suck", "Broncos got beat worse than any team ever" "hahahahaha". It took a while for me to get over that. It took even longer for my fellow students to leave me alone about it.



PEACE!!!

Thnikkaman
08-08-2012, 07:56 PM
I'd have to say that 49ers superbowl was mine as well. Last time I cried over a football game.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-08-2012, 08:13 PM
When I think of the worst of times as a Broncos fan, I rarely think of wins and losses. Football is football and although losses hurt, particularly in big games (the Jags playoff loss, the lost Superbowls, the Raiders embarrassment, etc), but the worst times to me are when I'm embarrassed to be a fan of the club predominantly because of stuff off the field.

My worst fan moments are:

#1 McSpygate - The worst and most nauseated I've EVER been as a fan. I already didn't respect McDaniels because he was an arrogant, insecure jerk who thought everyone should kiss his ass because of his Patriots pedigree, but the fact that he was stupid enough to hire the same clown who'd done it in NE and then didn't take immediate proper action once he discovered it nearly cost the Broncos dearly and made us the laughing stock of the league.

#2 The Cutler trade/Orton era - not just because McDaniels traded away a probowler in Cutler and replaced him with a journeyman backup in Orton, but how it was handled was humiliating to the organization. McDaniels and his ego did everything possible to vilify Cutler while trying to deflect any blame from himself. All that really ended up happening was that it brought shame to and divided the fanbase and made Bowlen look senile, incompetent, and like he had absolutely no clue and no control of his own franchise. The little dictator got his way (when Bowlen should've immediately stopped it) and it instantly set us back. Once again, not even how/why it happened is anywhere near as important as the absolute disgrace and tarnishing of this proud franchise.

#3 Signing/drafting shitbag players - the list is long, but distinguished. I was flabbergasted when Shanahan signed an old, broken down, division rival who was known as one of the dirtiest pieces of shit in the NFL for his whole career and paid him a truckload of money to produce absolute dick for this team - of course I'm talking about Dale Carter. How about a 3rd round pick on Maurice Clarrett? Darryl Gardener? All the former Pats that McDaniels brought over that made their wallets fat while sitting on them on the bench because they sucked so much ass? Trading a 1st round pick for a second round pick, drafting a CB who you traded the very next year for a scrub TE and a 7th? These player moves were an embarrassment and were more grains of sand on the beach of reasons for my disappointment with the direction we were headed.

I can handle losses, even bad ones. Every team gets beaten sometime and we're no different. What I can't stand are idiotic things that disgrace the team and keep us in the press for reasons that aren't on the field. The only off-field things I should hear about my Broncos are what good teammates and citizens they are. I want to hear about my Broncos helping kids, and giving time/money to charity and how they are brightening the day of someone less fortunate or nothing at all...

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 08:27 PM
Meh....Cutler isn't that good.

Six years. One playoff appearance.

Losing to the Bills and the Jaguars hurts way more than losing a quarterback who isn't that good (see: Tebow).

Nomad
08-08-2012, 08:39 PM
The day Elway retired. TD's knee injury.

Seeing Elway in his press conference left that empty feeling. TD's injury was a kick in the gut feeling as well and as one mentioned seeing McCaffery break his leg.

The losses were bad but seeing the Elway Era, as a player, end was the worst.

Nomad
08-08-2012, 08:49 PM
#2. The loss to the raiders. 59-13. Look maybe some of you Broncos fans don't really understand it this way but I live an hour from Oakland. Alot of my friends, my dad or just people who live here are raider fans. I hate the raiders with a passion. So when the Broncos lose to them I hear it for weeks and after that loss I heard it for a year. I lost a really big bet on top of it. I had already hated what McDaniels did to this team. Life really sucked for a long long time. So, when we smacked them pretty bad last year it helped forget this a bit. I only hope with Manning we really crush them bad for the next few years.




Sickening part is it happen in Denver.

Dzone
08-08-2012, 08:59 PM
Finding out what a shitty quarterback Orton was.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 09:02 PM
I must be about the only one who suffered more watching Tebow, who is far worse than Orton ever was, even with the wins. I suffered more watching Tommy Maddox and Brian Griese than I did with Orton, and Tebow...jeesh, he was ******* horrible.

Buff
08-08-2012, 09:16 PM
I must be about the only one who suffered more watching Tebow, who is far worse than Orton ever was, even with the wins. I suffered more watching Tommy Maddox and Brian Griese than I did with Orton, and Tebow...jeesh, he was ******* horrible.

Yes, I am not being facetious in saying that you are pretty much alone in that regard. The guy won us games. It was unconventional, his passing sucked, but it was 10000000000000000% more enjoyable than watching Orton play. The two don't even compare. Now stop derailing Shake's thread with your irrational Tebow hate.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 09:20 PM
Yes, I am not being facetious in saying that you are pretty much alone in that regard. The guy won us games. It was unconventional, his passing sucked, but it was 10000000000000000% more enjoyable than watching Orton play. The two don't even compare. Now stop derailing Shake's thread with your irrational Tebow hate.

They have nearly identical starts to their careers in Broncos orange. How quickly people forget how good he was in 6-0. So much better than Tebow EVER was.

Buff
08-08-2012, 09:24 PM
They have nearly identical starts to their careers in Broncos orange. How quickly people forget how good he was in 6-0. So much better than Tebow EVER was.

You are using the wrong metrics to measure their performance then. Tebow can't throw and STILL was a better QB than Orton. I will fight you if you continue down this Orton > Tebow line of reasoning.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Not counting player deaths, because those are obvious heartbreakers and truly would be number 1 on all of our lists I believe.

The TD injury. At the time I was bummed but figured he would come back and be at least close to his old self, little did I know that that play was, for all inents and purposes, the end of a brilliant career. It is disheartening to think of all the greatness we missed because of that one play.

Oh and pretty much every time I had to watch the lethargic loser Orton mope out to the huddle. I couldn't stand watching that jerk shrug off horrid play after horrid play like he didn't even give a shit. What a shitty era. BTW, Shut the **** up MO. ;)

camdisco24
08-08-2012, 09:54 PM
I'm not old enough to remember the days before Mike Shanahan. My first football memories watching the Broncos all include Shanny as coach. That being said, when he was fired that was tough for me because he was the only coach I ever watched coach the Broncos... but I knew we had reached our full potential with him so I was hoping for a bright, fresh start for our team. From day one with McDaniels, I never really thought he looked like a head coach. Strange, I know, but I just had a bad feeling about him from the start. I kept all the negative feelings about McD inside and went into his first season very optimistic, hoping their was a method to his madness.

Well.. there wasn't and my hate for McD grew more and more. I had a sign in my dorm room that read "FIRE MCDANIELS" starting at some point during the 2010 season. I would add all sorts of mustaches, devils horns, ect each loss. Obviously by the time he was fired he was pretty marked up. But in the weeks leading up to his firing, I was definitely at my low point as a fan. I didn't look forward to the games, but I NEVER miss a Broncos game... So I would watch, laugh at how awful we were, but still feel horrible after every loss. I used to go out to the local sports grill to watch, but never went during the 2010 season. The day McDaniels was fired was one of the greatest days ever. It always will be.

It didn't end there though. After seeing Tebow during those last couple games in 2010, I was pumped for the 2011 season. When the Orton trade didn't happen, my excitement was way down. When he started and we sucked with him, I was yelling at my TV (rare for me) and probably scaring my roommates. I couldn't believe I was still watching the fainting goat lead our team. Once Tebow replaced him I felt our team change. Now that we have Manning, we are in an even better place. Its rare to go from total darkness as a fan to total optimism in just a couple seasons like we have.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 09:58 PM
One quarterback went 8-8, and he's hated. One went 8-8 and he's loved.

It completely baffles me.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:01 PM
You are using the wrong metrics to measure their performance then. Tebow can't throw and STILL was a better QB than Orton. I will fight you if you continue down this Orton > Tebow line of reasoning.

The only line of reasoning you have is one fluke six-game winning streak. That's it.

The same shit happened with Orton, and he was far superior during that stretch than Tebow.

Talk to me about logic on some other topic. You clearly can't see the forest through the trees.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:04 PM
One quarterback went 8-8, and he's hated. One went 8-8 and he's loved.

It completely baffles me.
One looked like he cared and was exciting to watch. The other looked lethargic and uninterested. One had the phantom sack, the phantom fumble, the one yard short dive, and played a huge part in the biggest loss ever to the Raiders at home and looked like he didn't give a shit. The other had the pass heard round the world in OT, amazing comebacks, breathtaking plays(both good and bad admittedly), played his best in crucnch time, and took over two teams once QBed by Borton and instantly made them better.

Really is pretty easy to understand MO.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:07 PM
One looked like he cared and was exciting to watch. The other looked lethargic and uninterested. One had the phantom sack, the phantom fumble, the one yard short dive, and played a huge part in the biggest loss ever to the Raiders at home and looked like he didn't give a shit. The other had the pass heard round the world in OT, amazing comebacks, breathtaking plays(both good and bad admittedly), played his best in crucnch time, and took over two teams once QBed by Borton and instantly made them better.

Really is pretty easy to understand MO.

I'm baffled by people who think Orton was worse than Tebow?

The offense didn't get a touchdown in the most important game of the season.

camdisco24
08-08-2012, 10:07 PM
The only line of reasoning you have is one fluke six-game winning streak. That's it.

The same shit happened with Orton, and he was far superior during that stretch than Tebow.

Talk to me about logic on some other topic. You clearly can't see the forest through the trees.

But did you not enjoy those "fluky" Tebow wins? I mean, I LOVED the 6-0 start by Orton. I was a huge Orton fan until he started playing like he didn't care.

I think that's why people hate Orton and love Tebow. The passion just faded with Orton and Tebow was way more fun to watch, and he WON quite a bit more than most of us expected. I personally had much lower expectations for Tebow, a young QB, than Orton, and experienced veteran.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:11 PM
But did you not enjoy those "fluky" Tebow wins? I mean, I LOVED the 6-0 start by Orton. I was a huge Orton fan until he started playing like he didn't care.

I think that's why people hate Orton and love Tebow. The passion just faded with Orton and Tebow was way more fun to watch, and he WON quite a bit more than most of us expected. I personally had much lower expectations for Tebow, a young QB, than Orton, and experienced veteran.

Why is one winning streak different than the other?

Both collapsed, Tebow worse than Orton, in the games that mattered.

Nomad
08-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, my darkest moment as a fan was when I was watching a game and the power went out and I was SOL for the rest of the game. :lol: It's when we lived in Wa State during a storm. I believe they were playing the Chiefs.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:11 PM
I'm baffled by people who think Orton was worse than Tebow?

The offense didn't get a touchdown in the most important game of the season.
I could have swore we scored a few TDs in our playoff game. ;)

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:12 PM
I could have swore we scored a few TDs in our playoff game. ;)

The offense scored three points in the most important game of the season.

They also got the shit beat out of them so bad twice by New England that I turned off the TV the second time around.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, my darkest moment as a fan was when I was watching a game and the power went out and I was SOL for the rest of the game. It's when we lived in Wa State during a storm.
Some lazy Substation Electrician probably forgot to set the reclosing back to auto or something.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Let's put this fight to bed once and for all MO. Nobody is changing anybody else's mind so this circular fight over two QBs who no longer play for our beloved Broncos is just dumb.

Nomad
08-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Some lazy Substation Electrician probably forgot to set the reclosing back to auto or something.

If and when I build a house, I will make damn sure that in the panel I have generator capability and a generator.

camdisco24
08-08-2012, 10:16 PM
Why is one winning streak different than the other?

Both collapsed, Tebow worse than Orton, in the games that mattered.

Just for me personally, I think the Orton collapse was far worse. To START 6-0 and miss the playoffs? That's almost unheard of. That is kind of built into my darkest moment I talked about above. In Tebow's case, his collapse was disappointing, but he had to dig out of a hole (which took place under Orton's leadership) to even make a collapse relevant. Expectations were low once Orton was canned. Most people here, including myself, considered the remainder of the season a good time for Tebow to get playing time (and to see if he was a QBOTF). Tebow shocked us and Orton fainted his way right out of town.

Dzone
08-08-2012, 10:17 PM
We are talking real tackle football here, not flag football. Orton was a great 7 on 7 in shorts flag quarterback but when it came to live tackle football he was a total wuss. His body language was loser-like, he was scrawny, did not exude confidence and he literally would lay down when he saw pressure coming. Tebow is 100X the football player Orton will ever be. Tebow garnered a 4th and 6th pick and two possible starters. What did the Chiefs or Cowboys have to give up for Orton?
Orton was a skidmark on the Franchise. A low point for sure.
Theres no need to explain to anyone , except maybe the one who is baffled, why Tebow was loved over Orton. No explanation necessary.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:17 PM
If and when I build a house, I will make damn sure that in the panel I have generator capability and a generator.
Pretty easy to do. The thing you need to do is have an ATO(automatic throw-over) so you're not backfeeding into a fault. It's dangerous for lineman. You can do it with a regular old generator even as long as you always remember to thrn your main breaker off.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:18 PM
Apparently, no one remembers four of the last five games played last year. All they remember is one pass.

chazoe60
08-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Apparently, no one remembers four of the last five games played last year. All they remember is one pass.

And you don't remember the vast majority of Orton's Broncos career.

MOtorboat
08-08-2012, 10:23 PM
And you don't remember the vast majority of Orton's Broncos career.

No. That's the problem. I remember both correctly.

camdisco24
08-08-2012, 10:23 PM
Apparently, no one remembers four of the last five games played last year. All they remember is one pass.

Nah, I think everyone remembers the ups and downs, but (again) it all comes down to expectations. Veteran vs. rookie.

Chaz is prob right. I think the Darkest Moment thread is a good place to agree to disagree on this whole Tebow vs. Orton thing.

jhildebrand
08-08-2012, 10:33 PM
I don't think Frau has chimed in but for sure it would be the axing of Mike Leach for one Lonnie Paxton. Honestly, that is a sore spot for me too.

I know I said everything McDaniels but I need to continue-trading a first for Smurf, and trading up for Quinn in the same draft.

For Shanahan-Toviessi, Middlebrooks. But a really dark day for me was the drafting of Foster. Steven Jackson was there. The Broncos needed a RB. He wasn't expected to slip. He did and we drafted Foster. God that still pisses me off :mad:

jhildebrand
08-08-2012, 10:37 PM
Apparently, no one remembers four of the last five games played last year. All they remember is one pass.

Fair enough probably. Tebow, as raw and limited as he was, did what Orton nor Cutler could do (being more refined and arguably with better teams and easier schedules)-find ways to win when it mattered. He DID make that one pass. I can't remember one Orton pass that made me go WOW like that. The Stokley TD to win in Cinci would come the closest and that was TERRIBLE. It was, as usual, a forced pass to Marshall in triple coverage and got totally lucky!

But back to the thread. Orton time was a dark time for me. It was clear the guy was who we thought he was not very good.

NightTrainLayne
08-08-2012, 10:38 PM
When Broncos fans started endlessly fighting with each other over quarterbacks of the past and quarterback changes. So pointless.

BeefStew25
08-08-2012, 10:39 PM
I hate that Mo is livid Tebow won a playoff game. I love Tebow for that one single pass and his endless class. I hate Mo for his dusty **** and ginger pubes.

Timmy!
08-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Oh FFS, a Tebow thread
Yay!

iLands
08-08-2012, 11:34 PM
Apparently, no one remembers four of the last five games played last year. All they remember is one pass.

You mean when we lost twice to the AFC Champs?

What scrubs!

How dare a 2nd year developmental QB and a team in rebuild mode lose to the AFC Champions who were a play away from winning the Super Bowl!

I remember everything. When you are right, you are really right. When you are wrong, you aren't close.

Let's all just have something new to fight about. That dark era of McDaniels was quashed by the return of Elway and the sacrifice of Tebow. We have Manning now. We are in the second year of our three year rebuild and I think we are quite ahead of schedle. Smile!

So let's have a new argument indeed! I suggest the following: "Who is the most excited for this season?!"

Dzone
08-08-2012, 11:34 PM
Some of us just enjoyed the ride. Now we are ready to watch the next great football player lead the team. We should be so lucky if Manning is half the Quarterback Tebow was :pound:
Just kiddin

The low point of last year: Orton gave us the best chance to draft Andrew Luck and Tebow blew it. But we got Manning so it worked out for the best.

BroncoWave
08-08-2012, 11:40 PM
Mo further proving my point that he brings up Tebow in pretty much every thread.

We have Peyton Freaking Manning man. Tebow can't hurt you any more. Quit being a little bitch about him and get over it.

NightTerror218
08-08-2012, 11:57 PM
Orton took an 8-8 as a started and went 8-8 with a 6-0 start,finished 1-5. Then lead our team to the #2 pick in the draft Then started last season lead team to a 1-4 start. Tebow took over and we made playoffs. So where was Orton better?

Jsteve01
08-09-2012, 12:15 AM
1. Td. Injury
2. Jacksonville loss
3. Washington loss
4. The moment I realized exactly what an ass mcd was after he dismantled the team.

Canmore
08-09-2012, 12:21 AM
Orton took an 8-8 as a started and went 8-8 with a 6-0 start,finished 1-5. Then lead our team to the #2 pick in the draft Then started last season lead team to a 1-4 start. Tebow took over and we made playoffs. So where was Orton better?


He wasn't. Orton throws a prettier pass, he reads defenses better and he goes through his progressions better, but when the bullets are real he is only looking for the nearest foxhole. Tebow got better results and when it was crunch time was money. There is the difference.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-09-2012, 08:23 AM
Well, since this train has derailed into another Tebow thread I might as well put in my 2 cents...

You know what the sad part is? Had we converted Tim into an H-back/TE/FB as soon as we drafted him, he'd probably be the most beloved Bronco on the team. Because we allowed him to try his hand at NFL QB'ing and because he doesn't measure up to what most "experts" consider an NFL caliber QB, he was ridiculed, mocked, made fun of, and is now despised by a good portion of the fan base. Some people are actually happy he is no longer a Bronco. Seriously? The same people who are cool with giving dirt bags like DJ Williams chance after chance are vilifying Tebow for what... trying really hard and not throwing very well from the pocket?

I wish he was still here. I wish we had just told him we were going to play him at a different position. I wish we could've kept his fire, leadership, and character in our locker room. He could've been our up-back on the punt team. He could've lined up next to Manning on 3rd and short and been used as a FB to pick up a yard or two. We could've used him for something because everything he tried he gave a 100%. Even if he never lined up at QB again, he is a damned fine football player.

Okay, I'm done. Back on topic.

Chef Zambini
08-09-2012, 08:48 AM
timmy refuses to play another position! he wont allow himself to be listed as anything other than QB !
When we signed PM he wanted OUT! TT knew he had no future as a starting QB in denver. why?
be3cause JE does not believe in TT as a legitimate NFL QB.
JE does not hate TT, he just knows he sucks as a passer of the football and considrs that a vital element of any QBs skill set.
JE loves TT the person and teammate, cant stand TT the QB and especially cant tolerate the looney tunes who follow him around !
so TT is toast as a bronco, get over it !

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 10:24 AM
Orton took an 8-8 as a started and went 8-8 with a 6-0 start,finished 1-5. Then lead our team to the #2 pick in the draft Then started last season lead team to a 1-4 start. Tebow took over and we made playoffs. So where was Orton better?

Orton led us to an 8-8 record with a 6 game losing streak, losing the last four games of the season and missed the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West didn't help us with losses that we needed to back in. Tebow led us to an 8-8 record, losing the last 3 games of the season and made the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West DID lose games, helping us back in. Tebow didn't lead us to the playoffs with an 8-8 record than Orton did.

vandammage13
08-09-2012, 10:31 AM
Orton led us to an 8-8 record with a 6 game losing streak, losing the last four games of the season and missed the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West didn't help us with losses that we needed to back in. Tebow led us to an 8-8 record, losing the last 3 games of the season and made the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West DID lose games, helping us back in. Tebow didn't lead us to the playoffs with an 8-8 record than Orton did.

Tebow didn't go 8-8...he went 7-4.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Tebow didn't go 8-8...he went 7-4.

Doesn't matter, does it? The final record of the team was 8-8... making the playoffs even though 8-8 wasn't good enough just a couple years back. Tebow lost the last 3 games of the season with an 8-5 record. "Making the playoffs" with a crappy 8-8 record isn't something to be putting on Tebow when he failed at the end of the season just as much as Orton did. Tebow just happened to be starting when the rest of the division absolutely blew chunks worse than we did.

vandammage13
08-09-2012, 10:35 AM
Doesn't matter, does it? The final record of the team was 8-8... making the plyoffs even though 8-8 wasn't good enough just a couple years back. Tebow lost the last 3 games of the season with an 8-5 record. The TEAM ended up 8-8 despite Tebow's record, and "making the playoffs" with a crappy 8-8 record isn't something to be putting on Tebow. After all, he failed at the end of the season just as much as Orton did.

Then you should say the Broncos went 8-8...hard to pin 4 of those losses on Tebow when he didn't play.

Anyway, I don't want to contribute anymore than I already have to the derailing of this thread, so lets take it to the "Other NFL Teams" Forum..

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 10:37 AM
LOL- love the expression "backed in". We still won the games necessary to get us to the playoffs. Period, end of story.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 10:42 AM
Then you should say the Broncos went 8-8...hard to pin 4 of those losses on Tebow when he didn't play.

Anyway, I don't want to contribute anymore than I already have to the derailing of this thread, so lets take it to the "Other NFL Teams" Forum..

Tebow isn't a part of the team now? He's just Tebow by himself? I guess the NFL should judge the playoff record on individual play? The Broncos finished 8-8 with Tebow at the helm. Period. Just as Orton did 2 years back. Hard to say that "Tebow led us to the playoffs" when the final record was the same as a terrible QB. We just got lucky.




LOL- love the expression "backed in". We still won the games necessary to get us to the playoffs. Period, end of story.


Backing in is needing other teams to LOSE for you to get in. N ot because we won the games we needed to. We NEEDED to win a game at the end of the year so that we could WIN our way into the playoffs. Instead, we had to hope/pray/wait for another team to fail. Not exactly taking your destiny into your own hands, but leaving it to someone else to decide for you. Luckily, everyone else in our division was actually worse than we were, last year. If this were the case in the last few years, we would have made the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years with an 8-8 record.

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 10:46 AM
Tebow isn't a part of the team now? He's just Tebow by himself? I guess the NFL should judge the playoff record on individual play? The Broncos finished 8-8 with Tebow at the helm. Period. Just as Orton did 2 years back.


Backing in is needing other teams to LOSE for you to get in. N ot because we won the games we needed to. We NEEDED to win a game at the end of the year so that we could WIN our way into the playoffs. Instead, we had to hope/pray/wait for another team to fail.

And that scenario would not be possible without the games we won. Backing in is like getting 2nd place in a beauty contest and then the winner dies. We won the division, didn't get 2nd place and then later awarded 1st.

Benetto
08-09-2012, 10:52 AM
That Playoff loss to Jax crippled me emotionally for the whole off-season that year...I was in Highschool, it ruined my whole Summer Vacay.

Also, being that we were one game away from the Superbowl in 05-06, and the Steelers team doctor got busted for mass steroids purchases that adjacent off-season really hurt too...

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 11:23 AM
Orton led us to an 8-8 record with a 6 game losing streak, losing the last four games of the season and missed the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West didn't help us with losses that we needed to back in. Tebow led us to an 8-8 record, losing the last 3 games of the season and made the playoffs because the rest of the AFC West DID lose games, helping us back in. Tebow didn't lead us to the playoffs with an 8-8 record than Orton did.

Technically Tebow was 7-4 and was playing catch up all season. We were never way ahead in the division. Even if Orton made the playoffs he would have lost the first round because that team fell apart with him at the helm with shown the following season with the 2nd worst record.

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 11:26 AM
Tebow isn't a part of the team now? He's just Tebow by himself? I guess the NFL should judge the playoff record on individual play? The Broncos finished 8-8 with Tebow at the helm. Period. Just as Orton did 2 years back. Hard to say that "Tebow led us to the playoffs" when the final record was the same as a terrible QB. We just got lucky.


Backing in is needing other teams to LOSE for you to get in. N ot because we won the games we needed to. We NEEDED to win a game at the end of the year so that we could WIN our way into the playoffs. Instead, we had to hope/pray/wait for another team to fail. Not exactly taking your destiny into your own hands, but leaving it to someone else to decide for you. Luckily, everyone else in our division was actually worse than we were, last year. If this were the case in the last few years, we would have made the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years with an 8-8 record.

Yep 1 individual play alright, o wait how many catches did DT have to set a new playoff record? O so there was more then 1 play, and more then 1 TD. But wait one 1 play.......its not adding up to me.

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 11:30 AM
To me the darkest moment is when we lose a player. Darrent Williams would be the top of list following my Eddie Macs broken leg and rounded off with TD's knee injury. Williams was just devasting for the teams and fans along because that sort of incident should not happen and just hurts the heart. The injuries basically ended careers of two of my favorite players to watch. To round it off the blowout loss the Raiders at home was salt on a would to show how far we had fallen from grace. Which was part of a whole low spot of the team. I do think that low spot is worse then the playoff loses because we had a good team then and this showed how far from a good team we had gone and how talent depleted we had become.

CrazyHorse
08-09-2012, 11:38 AM
In more recent memory the 59-14 loss at home to the Raiders.

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Kuper's broken leg.....I can still see it happening, Franklin falling on it. I remember seeing it happen and yelling OMG.

iLands
08-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Brady's punt on third down really hurt.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 12:52 PM
And that scenario would not be possible without the games we won. Backing in is like getting 2nd place in a beauty contest and then the winner dies. We won the division, didn't get 2nd place and then later awarded 1st.

Thats how you see it, not how I do. I want to win the division, not wait and hope that another team loses it.

underrated29
08-09-2012, 12:52 PM
The last game orton played before he got pulled for tebow....that was rock bottom. I have never ever hated us ha ing a player on our team more then him.....(kennison and co were not on the team each week like kyle was)

If we ever got 3rd and 12 or more or down by 10 points i knew with orton we were done and never coming back.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Yep 1 individual play alright, o wait how many catches did DT have to set a new playoff record? O so there was more then 1 play, and more then 1 TD. But wait one 1 play.......its not adding up to me.

where did I say 1 play??? :confused: what are you talking about?

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Technically Tebow was 7-4 and was playing catch up all season. We were never way ahead in the division. Even if Orton made the playoffs he would have lost the first round because that team fell apart with him at the helm with shown the following season with the 2nd worst record.

Doesn't matter what Tebow's record was. You said he "led us to the playoffs." He didn't. We finished 8-8 just like we did 3 of the last 5 years. The only difference is, THIS lousy 8-8 record happened to be the best of the worst. No different. No better. He had just as much of a late season fail as the others did.

BroncoNut
08-09-2012, 12:56 PM
when that BDB fellow just wouldn't die, but instead would live to tell about it.

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Thats how you see it, not how I do. I want to win the division, not wait and hope that another team loses it.

We took over the lead and did not lose it. It is not like the Raiders lost 1st place to us.

Dzone
08-09-2012, 01:06 PM
Dale Carter and Eddie Kennison, ya those two guys sucked.

NightTerror218
08-09-2012, 01:06 PM
Doesn't matter what Tebow's record was. You said he "led us to the playoffs." He didn't. We finished 8-8 just like we did 3 of the last 5 years. The only difference is, THIS lousy 8-8 record happened to be the best of the worst. No different. No better. He had just as much of a late season fail as the others did.

And we started 1-4 so yes he did leave us to the playoffs. we were being projected as leaders in the Luck sweepstakes in many experts/analysis eyes. It was because of of an early season failure we were 8-8 we could have been 10-6 had he started the entire season I like we could have won the Chargers game with Tebow, and the raiders game and the Tennesee game. I would not call losing to Buffalo and Pats as late season fails. KC loss, yes that was a fail. Buffalo started strong at 5-2. It is not like we finished 2-6 like the previous season. That was a complete epic failure. It is not "by chance" that our offense became the # rushing offense in the league when Tebow took over.

DenBronx
08-09-2012, 01:07 PM
Doesn't matter what Tebow's record was. You said he "led us to the playoffs." He didn't. We finished 8-8 just like we did 3 of the last 5 years. The only difference is, THIS lousy 8-8 record happened to be the best of the worst. No different. No better. He had just as much of a late season fail as the others did.

We backed in and there's no other way to describe that. Maybe Tebow didnt "lead" us there on the field but I think he lead the team in other ways. He's deffinitely clutch when it counts and he got the whole team and whole stadium believing we would win. Lets face it, we had and still might have several holes to fill on offense and defense yet somehow Tebow did what Orton couldnt. I'll take backing into the playoffs and winning a playoff game after the drought we have went through. So maybe he didnt lead us into the playoffs with 60% completion rate but he deffinitely helped get us there. It was the whole team that lead us there and not one man. For every Tebow comeback I can also look at the defense and tell you that in critical moments someone stepped up and made a play.

Our struggle was playing against high powered offenses. We couldnt keep up playing slow ball or keep away the whole game. I think it worked on half against the Pats last year and then they burned us badly in the 2nd half. This is why a Manning ran offense will make this team and defense so much better. I really wish we could have shipped a guy like Moreno and still used Tebow in goal line situations or in the run/pass game somehow....but I'm also glad the circus is over. If his rabid fans wouldnt have been so crazy then maybe he would still be a Bronco somehow. Then again, I don't think Elway or Fox really believed he would become a better passer.

MasterShake
08-09-2012, 01:09 PM
Ok I changed my mind. I love Tebow, but he was the darkest hour of my Bronco fandom hands down. I love how we argue about and defend Quarterbacks and their would have been should have been stories.



















CLEARLY Plummer was the best QB since Elway anyway.... :lol:

MOtorboat
08-09-2012, 01:16 PM
CLEARLY Plummer was the best QB since Elway anyway.... :lol:

He was. :coffee:

TXBRONC
08-09-2012, 01:25 PM
The year and half of McDaniels was my darkest time.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 01:29 PM
This is why a Manning ran offense will make this team and defense so much better. I really wish we could have shipped a guy like Moreno and still used Tebow in goal line situations or in the run/pass game somehow....but I'm also glad the circus is over. If his rabid fans wouldnt have been so crazy then maybe he would still be a Bronco somehow. Then again, I don't think Elway or Fox really believed he would become a better passer.

I see what you are saying, but how do you possibly pull Manning out of the game in the red-zone? I don't think there is a way under the sun to justify that kind of move.

I think you are right. I don't think they see Tebow ever being a passer you can use in the NFL as a starter.

BigDaddyBronco
08-09-2012, 02:11 PM
My darkest hour as a fan was when we benched Plummer for Cutler, or maybe when we showed Tebow the door.....

Nope, it was when they fired McDaniels. All he needed was another year to install his system and they yanked the rug out from under him.

EastCoastBronco
08-09-2012, 02:22 PM
That one's easy for me.
The 55-10 beat down the 49ers put on us in the SB.
I was in university at the time and I wore ALL of my Broncos gear the entire week before that goddam game.

That was a dark day...

camdisco24
08-09-2012, 02:45 PM
Nope, it was when they fired McDaniels. All he needed was another year to install his system and they yanked the rug out from under him.

:fish2:

Italianmobstr7
08-09-2012, 02:53 PM
A few for me... The Jags game in 97 killed me. I was only 8 and it still wrecked me. I cried for hours.. Losing to the Giants when we were 13-0 made me pretty sad but we were 13-0 so whatevz... The Steelers loss in 05 left me numb. And 3 friends & I made the trip (before I moved to Denver) for the Broncos-Raiders 59-14 game... Pretty gut wrenching.. Those are probably the worst moments for me.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 03:59 PM
My darkest hour as a fan was when we benched Plummer for Cutler, or maybe when we showed Tebow the door.....

Nope, it was when they fired McDaniels. All he needed was another year to install his system and they yanked the rug out from under him.

Wow... those are all the moments I cheered the hardest!!!

OrangeHoof
08-09-2012, 04:29 PM
I must be about the only one who suffered more watching Tebow, who is far worse than Orton ever was, even with the wins. I suffered more watching Tommy Maddox and Brian Griese than I did with Orton, and Tebow...jeesh, he was ******* horrible.

Yeah, I just hated winning. Especially that playoff win against the Steelers. It was sooooo embarrassing to watch Tebow throw for over 300 yards against the league's #1 defense. I mean, yeah, who wouldn't rather watch Orton?

:tsk:

tomjonesrocks
08-09-2012, 04:32 PM
My darkest hour as a fan was when we benched Plummer for Cutler, or maybe when we showed Tebow the door.....

Nope, it was when they fired McDaniels. All he needed was another year to install his system and they yanked the rug out from under him.

Sarcasm?

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 05:23 PM
Thats how you see it, not how I do. I want to win the division, not wait and hope that another team loses it.

Sorry - we won the division. Pretty sad you just can't simply enjoy that fact. I take it you'd be the one that complains if you won $100,000 when the possibility was $1,000,000.00.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 05:24 PM
Sorry - we won the division. Pretty sad you just can't simply enjoy that fact. I take it you'd be the one that complains if you won $100,000 when the possibility was $1,000,000.00.

Yeah... same thing there, joe. You are right on the mark. :coffee:

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 05:27 PM
Yeah... same thing there, joe. You are right on the mark. :coffee:

Pretty damn close. You're upset over something that happened - as opposed to something that didn't.

Your loss, buddy. I learned a long time ago not to fret too much over shit I can't control.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 05:34 PM
Pretty damn close. You're upset over something that happened - as opposed to something that didn't.

Your loss, buddy. I learned a long time ago not to fret too much over shit I can't control.

Fretting, or observing?? :lol: There is a big difference that you apparently have NOT learned. I'm not fretting over anything. I'm simply able to see the differences of what occurred and what didn't. I learned a long time ago not to take shit at face value.

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 05:53 PM
Fretting, or observing?? :lol: There is a big difference that you apparently have NOT learned. I'm not fretting over anything. I'm simply able to see the differences of what occurred and what didn't. I learned a long time ago not to take shit at face value.

What occurred, Ravage?

We won the division, that's what occurred. No if's and's or butt's about it.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 05:58 PM
What occurred, Ravage?

We won the division, that's what occurred. No if's and's or butt's about it.

Never said that we didn't officially have the lead in the division joe. But it comes down to how you define "win".. doesn't it? We didn't WIN games at the end of the season to take the division title. We actually had to hope/pray/wait for other teams to LOSE games. Now to you, you want to look at things at face value and not simply step back and see how they occured. Instead, you are just happy to see the final results and not accept that we backed our way by means of NEEDING others to fail so that we could step forward. Wasn't us taking that step on our own.

But some are just more simple than others, and don't like to look too deep. They like things at face value without having to evaluate. Especially when it surrounds a player they have so desperately been defending.

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Never said that we didn't officially have the lead in the division joe. But it comes down to how you define "win".. doesn't it? We didn't WIN games at the end of the season to take the division title. We actually had to hope/pray/wait for other teams to LOSE games. Now to you, you want to look at things at face value and not simply step back and see how they occured. Instead, you are just happy to see the final results and not accept that we backed our way by means of NEEDING others to fail so that we could step forward. Wasn't us taking that step on our own.

But some are just more simple than others, and don't like to look too deep. They like things at face value without having to evaluate. Especially when it surrounds a player they have so desperately been defending.

I'm very happy that you spend your time evaluating and examining things well beyond your control. Congrats and good luck with that.

Not sure what the last paragraph means either, but I'm sure you do in your own world.

Ravage!!!
08-09-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm very happy that you spend your time evaluating and examining things well beyond your control. Congrats and good luck with that.

Not sure what the last paragraph means either, but I'm sure you do in your own world.

Joe, this may be shocking to you. But ALLLLLL history is beyond our control. Doesn't mean the "why's" of life are not evaluated on a continued basis. I know this is surprising to you, and I know you somehow feel yourself well beyond looking back at history and actually taking an intellectual look as to how/why things happened the way they did.

As I said, some are just more simple than others and like to take things at face value. It's easier for them that way.

BroncoJoe
08-09-2012, 06:07 PM
Joe, this may be shocking to you. But ALLLLLL history is beyond our control. Doesn't mean the "why's" of life are not evaluated on a continued basis. I know this is surprising to you, and I know you somehow feel yourself well beyond looking back at history and actually taking an intellectual look as to how/why things happened the way they did.

As I said, some are just more simple than others and like to take things at face value. It's easier for them that way.

It's a football game, Rav. We're not talking about teaching our kids how to be a good adult, or focusing on our own career path, marriage, etc.

As I said, I'm glad you have the time for such negative thoughts and pondering.

BORDERLINE
08-09-2012, 06:15 PM
easily for me was the JAX playoff game. second would be losing the perfect season to the G-Men and 3rd would be the raiders whooping our azz a couple years ago with Orton under center and feeling utterly hopeless

Simple Jaded
08-10-2012, 12:36 AM
Nope, it was when they fired McDaniels. All he needed was another year to install his system and they yanked the rug out from under him.
Please tell me this is sarcasm.......

BigDaddyBronco
08-10-2012, 07:11 AM
Please tell me this is sarcasm.......
What. You don't like McDaniels?

tubby
08-10-2012, 11:05 AM
With the 11th pick......KA BOOM!

tubby
08-10-2012, 11:06 AM
The new years eve game against the 49ers for a trip to the playoffs. Nate rubberball Webster bouncing off of Frank Gore.

tubby
08-10-2012, 11:07 AM
The Pittsburgh AFCC in 2005 stands out above all. I may have cried a little that day while shaving off my Pummer beard. :(

MOtorboat
08-10-2012, 11:10 AM
with the 11th pick......ka boom!

cok6

Ravage!!!
08-10-2012, 11:15 AM
cok6

is this slang for coccyx? :confused:

tubby
08-10-2012, 11:20 AM
COK6 is short for CoachKiller6. eff that phaggot. too scared to play last night i see. I think cok6 is the only reason they let DJ play. He was going to eff him up.

Ravage!!!
08-10-2012, 12:10 PM
:lol: OmG... I thought the guy that was banned from the board is the only one that called him that... wow... :lol:

DenBronx
08-16-2012, 08:58 PM
I see what you are saying, but how do you possibly pull Manning out of the game in the red-zone? I don't think there is a way under the sun to justify that kind of move.

I think you are right. I don't think they see Tebow ever being a passer you can use in the NFL as a starter.


I think Tebow could have came in redzone situations with Manning still at QB. Dual threat because Manning could dump it off to Tebow and Tebow could still try and pass it. Or just snap it directly to Tebow but defenses would still have to respect Manning.

But yeah I agree with you Ravage, I don't think Tebow will ever be the kind of passer we would have needed in the long run. Brock seems to already be a better passer. I think I just wanted him to be that guy mainly because people are so hard on him but if you cant throw then you wont last.

SmilinAssasSin27
08-16-2012, 09:47 PM
49ers SB loss

Missing the playoffs a couple of years ago when all we had to do was win 1 of the last 4 games.

Chef Zambini
08-16-2012, 11:11 PM
is this slang for coccyx? :confused:no, tailbone would be slang for coccyx.
puss bucket would be slang for JMCD
and punkpussy would be slang for cutler.

Magnificent Seven
08-17-2012, 04:24 PM
the absolute darkest were the absolute beatdowns we got in the Super Bowls.

The next would be the '96 loss to Jax.

But those were at the end of the seasons, and thus didn't effect me as far as wanting to watch next season.

McDaniels trading away our team was probably the time in which I didn't really want to watch the Broncos season/play. KNowing we had Orton as our starting QB just completely deflated me and ruined the football year for me.

Elway and Broncos would win over Jax if Michael Dean Perry gets off the field quickly.

vettesplus
08-17-2012, 04:52 PM
outside of some tragedy, its just a game. i watch, i shrug my shouders when they loose and then life is back to normal

Magnificent Seven
08-17-2012, 06:12 PM
K.C. Chiefs vs. Denver Broncos on Monday Night Football. Montana vs. Elway. Mile High Stadium was rocking all night long. The game went back-and-forth all night.

On a classic Elway drive, he led the Broncos 39 yards on six plays, finishing it off himself with a 4-yard touchdown run to give them a 28-24 lead with just 1:29 left.

But it was more than enough time for Joe Montana. His execution of the two-minute drill, completing 7-of-8 passes as he moved them 75 yards on nine plays. he Broncos had been given Montana the underneath throws and he worked it precisely, going perfect on the final four plays, 11 yards to Kimble Anders, 12 yards to Derrick Walker, 19 yards to Tracy Greene and then a five-yarder to Willie Davis as Davis extended his arms at the goal line before reaching the pylon for a touchdown.

It sucks! I was falling down on my carpet and covered my head with my hands! Nightmare for me. However, it was a good game.

Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViWWDWsg6Y

Canmore
08-17-2012, 06:26 PM
K.C. Chiefs vs. Denver Broncos on Monday Night Football. Montana vs. Elway. Mile High Stadium was rocking all night long. The game went back-and-forth all night.

On a classic Elway drive, he led the Broncos 39 yards on six plays, finishing it off himself with a 4-yard touchdown run to give them a 28-24 lead with just 1:29 left.

But it was more than enough time for Joe Montana. His execution of the two-minute drill, completing 7-of-8 passes as he moved them 75 yards on nine plays. he Broncos had been given Montana the underneath throws and he worked it precisely, going perfect on the final four plays, 11 yards to Kimble Anders, 12 yards to Derrick Walker, 19 yards to Tracy Greene and then a five-yarder to Willie Davis as Davis extended his arms at the goal line before reaching the pylon for a touchdown.

It sucks! I was falling down on my carpet and covered my head with my hands! Nightmare for me. However, it was a good game.

Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViWWDWsg6Y

I really remember that game. Montana/Davis scored with 8 seconds left. Iirc when we scored we only had ten men on the field. Sharpe noticed and lined up on the line of scrimmage so that we had seven on the line.

Chef Zambini
08-18-2012, 12:57 AM
a classic example of how 'prevent" defense only prevents you from winning.

Shazam!
08-18-2012, 01:37 PM
Jax loss in Divisional round following the 96 Season.

Nothing, NOTHING will ever come close to the disappointment I felt after that game. Super Bowl beatdowns, McDaniels era... Nothing.

Hawgdriver
02-13-2023, 06:27 PM
bump

Buff
02-13-2023, 07:17 PM
bump

For me, 10 years later you can add:

The Rahim Moore game
Adam Gase's onside kick with a 24 point lead in the 4th quarter to run up the score on us (And VJ not taking any offense)
MaskGate - the Kendall Hinton debacle

Honorable mention:
Hackett's debut
Pat Shurmur talking about practicing INTs at practice
Ravens kicker (et all) mocking Russ

Simple Jaded
02-13-2023, 07:40 PM
Tim Tebow is the darkest time in Broncos history, I was convinced I’d be stuck watching him puke all over the field for the next decade simply because “he wins”.

Reading this thread reminds me of why I hate you guys so much.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-13-2023, 08:18 PM
Willie Middlebrooks
George Foster

Could have had Brees and Asomga (I can't spell)

dogfish
02-13-2023, 08:28 PM
Man, I miss MO.

King87
02-13-2023, 09:41 PM
Tim Tebow is the darkest time in Broncos history, I was convinced I’d be stuck watching him puke all over the field for the next decade simply because “he wins”.

Reading this thread reminds me of why I hate you guys so much.

At least with TT a lot of media members were pointing out he wasn't a real QB. Trevor Siemian was the worst during my tenure because I watched really smart fans try to convince themselves that he could play.

The lock Flock's growing list of fake hurdles that he faced and the crazed and tortured logic made on his behalf was like watching someone have a brain cramp....for a year.

BroncoWave
02-13-2023, 10:20 PM
For me, 10 years later you can add:

The Rahim Moore game


You mean the John Fox game? Him kneeling out the clock with PFM, over a minute left, and 3 timeouts was infinitely more unforgivable than anything Rahim did. He was at least trying to make a play.

BroncoWave
02-13-2023, 10:21 PM
Tim Tebow is the darkest time in Broncos history, I was convinced I’d be stuck watching him puke all over the field for the next decade simply because “he wins”.

Reading this thread reminds me of why I hate you guys so much.

You have to be a special kind of miserable to have not enjoyed that season.

Northman
02-13-2023, 10:30 PM
Tim Tebow is the darkest time in Broncos history, I was convinced I’d be stuck watching him puke all over the field for the next decade simply because “he wins”.

Reading this thread reminds me of why I hate you guys so much.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/954/200/958.jpg

Simple Jaded
02-13-2023, 11:15 PM
You have to be a special kind of miserable to have not enjoyed that season.

I’m a football fan, not a Disney fan.

King87
02-13-2023, 11:20 PM
I’m a football fan, not a Disney fan.

Football is bout wins.

Tebow won.

Simple Jaded
02-14-2023, 12:19 AM
Football is bout wins.

Tebow won.
Barf

King87
02-14-2023, 12:27 AM
Barf

Tebow in yo titties, bitch.

7DnBrnc53
02-14-2023, 02:53 AM
Willie Middlebrooks
George Foster

Could have had Brees and Asomga (I can't spell)

Jack Elway, John's dad, was a scout with the Broncos in 2001, and begged the team to take Brees before he died. Too bad they ignored him.

As for George Foster, I wanted him or Kwame Harris because I knew that the Broncos needed a OT. Also, Asomugha (or Scrabble, the nickname they gave him on Football's Future in 2011) wasn't considered a first-round prospect in 2003 by some people.

7DnBrnc53
02-14-2023, 02:59 AM
Sept 30, 1990. One of the years that Buffalo went to the SB.

Elway and Co. were up 21-9 at the start of the 4th quarter. Handling the hapless Bills easily. Until disaster struck! We had lined up for a short Treadwell FG to put us up 24-9. The kick was blocked and run back for a TD (21-16.) The next offensive play Elway throws a pick-6 (21-22 the extra point was no good.) On the ensuing KO we fumble and they return it to the 2 and the following play results in 7 more points. 21-29 Bills. All that happened in the span of 70 seconds in the first 5 minutes of the quarter.

The next two drives were pitiful. Denver couldn't do anything right except keep them from putting up more points. The last drive resulted in a Denver TD to make it a 28-29 final. If only the 2 pt conversion rule was alive back then. I felt like throwing up after that 20 point run.

That game may have set the tone for the next several years in the AFC.

In 1989, Buffalo was known as the Bickering Bills, as a few players (Kelly, Thurman) had some issues in the media with teammates. That team wasn't known for it's chemistry.

In Week 2 of the 1990 season, the Bills got blown out by the Dolphins, and Marv Levy took some players out in the fourth quarter (Darryl Talley wasn't happy about it).

In Week 4, the Bills were 2-1, but they were staring 2-2 in the face when they blocked a FG because Uncle Rico didn't block his man. They came back to win that game, and they won their next two games at home with fourth quarter comebacks to start 5-1. That, I believe, was not only a springboard to SB 25, but to the next three SB's as well because they found an ability to come through in the clutch (that disappeared in the Super Bowl).

If they lose that game to Denver, maybe they lose the next two, and history could have been very different. Maybe that team never reaches it's potential.

UnderArmour
02-14-2023, 07:07 AM
Football is bout wins.

Tebow won.

To be fair, Tebow won but only because he was part of the Broncos, who won. That defense in 2011 was very scrappy and took the fight to offenses. Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, Von Miller and guys like DJ Williams it was exciting to watch how they would bail out Tebow. Can't forget Elvis "fax machine" Dumervil either.

Willis McGahee had a great incredible year at RB too. Not to overrate the offensive line in 2011, but I miss the heck out of Ryan Clady.

As far as darkest moments? It is hard to pick from the last 7 years. This team has been terrible. Between the initial lack of talent and the lack of coaching these post 2015 seasons have been dreadful.

King87
02-14-2023, 10:58 AM
To be fair, Tebow won but only because he was part of the Broncos, who won. That defense in 2011 was very scrappy and took the fight to offenses. Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, Von Miller and guys like DJ Williams it was exciting to watch how they would bail out Tebow. Can't forget Elvis "fax machine" Dumervil either.

Willis McGahee had a great incredible year at RB too. Not to overrate the offensive line in 2011, but I miss the heck out of Ryan Clady.

As far as darkest moments? It is hard to pick from the last 7 years. This team has been terrible. Between the initial lack of talent and the lack of coaching these post 2015 seasons have been dreadful.

Just let me mess with jaded! He deserves to suffer.

Tbolt
02-14-2023, 11:34 AM
It will forever be 96' and the Jags game. Because at the time there was no way to know if we would ever get back to the SB with Elway and the fear that window was closing. That's why that was so devastating. Honorable mention to the Fox/Moore Ravens debacle.

BroncoJoe
02-14-2023, 12:38 PM
Redskins SB was my lowest point. The others they lost were kind of expected - especially against the 49'ers.

BroncoWave
02-14-2023, 12:46 PM
As far as darkest moments? It is hard to pick from the last 7 years. This team has been terrible. Between the initial lack of talent and the lack of coaching these post 2015 seasons have been dreadful.

Just looking at the last 7 years, the darkest one was this most recent one and it's really not even close. Going in with the expectations we had with Russ then just being the complete league-wide laughing stock we were from literally the first game on was just depressing. At least the other 6 seasons most rational people realized that we were going into the year with subpar QB play and going to a super bowl probably wasn't very much on the table. It felt on the table going into last year and to have the rug pulled out from under us sucked.

That's why I'm not letting myself get overly hyped about SP. I don't want to be hurt like that again!

BroncoJoe
02-14-2023, 01:12 PM
Just looking at the last 7 years, the darkest one was this most recent one and it's really not even close. Going in with the expectations we had with Russ then just being the complete league-wide laughing stock we were from literally the first game on was just depressing. At least the other 6 seasons most rational people realized that we were going into the year with subpar QB play and going to a super bowl probably wasn't very much on the table. It felt on the table going into last year and to have the rug pulled out from under us sucked.

That's why I'm not letting myself get overly hyped about SP. I don't want to be hurt like that again!

Show us on the doll?

:yo:

King87
02-14-2023, 01:22 PM
Show us on the doll?

:yo:

It's the booty. That's where the hurt is. The butt. Buttocks. The turd cutter. The yams. Dem cheeks.

#science

EastCoastBronco
02-14-2023, 01:25 PM
It will forever be 96' and the Jags game. Because at the time there was no way to know if we would ever get back to the SB with Elway and the fear that window was closing. That's why that was so devastating. Honorable mention to the Fox/Moore Ravens debacle.

I honestly believe we could have three-peated the SB if we had won that game.
It would have just been a wake up call.
Has anyone ever three-peated a SB?

7DnBrnc53
02-14-2023, 01:56 PM
The Baltimore loss in 2012 was my darkest moment as a fan. The refs took that game away from the Broncos.

Another moment that stands out is 1984, when the 13-3 Broncos lost to an average 9-7 Steeler team with Turkey Malone at QB and Walter "I fall down when I go around end" Abercrombie at RB. The Broncos had a much better chance against Marino than the Steelers had. And, if they got by the Dolphins, they would have played the 49ers much tougher because Joe Collier played the right scheme against them: Rush 3, drop eight (in tight man and under zone, I presume), and rotate the defensive linemen to keep them fresh.

The Broncos went 3-0 in the 80's against SF with Collier as DC. However, in SB 24, they had Wade Phillips. He was great, but the defense he ran was not what you should run against a WCO:

https://goldenrankings.com/SuperBowl24-A.htm

In practice before that SB, Elway and Kubiak were playing the scout team QB, and they would throw the default route (the post) against Wade's static 3-4 with two wide safeties. Elway knew that because he ran the WCO in college. However, Charlie Waters wouldn't listen to him when Elway would try to point that out.

Simple Jaded
02-14-2023, 06:00 PM
Tebow in yo titties, bitch.

Tebow in yo turd cutter, pouty ho.

Simple Jaded
02-14-2023, 06:02 PM
Just let me mess with jaded! He deserves to suffer.

I still suffer that dark time, I have PTSD . . . Post Tebow Sucked Disorder.

UnderArmour
02-14-2023, 07:41 PM
I still suffer that dark time, I have PTSD . . . Post Tebow Sucked Disorder.

Not true. Tebow was great as a power runner. Guy punished defenders and was instrumental in the running game. Can you function as a franchise over a season period of time with him as your QB? No.

Even over a decade later, 2011 is a season I reflect back on as one of my all time favorites. It is a reminder that any time a team takes the field, that they have an opportunity to achieve victory. The game is played on the field, not in the press and not by talking heads opinions.

dogfish
02-14-2023, 08:01 PM
Tebow in yo turd cutter, pouty ho.

This feels really aggressive. I think we might need a timeout to talk about our feelings.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-14-2023, 10:37 PM
It will forever be 96' and the Jags game. Because at the time there was no way to know if we would ever get back to the SB with Elway and the fear that window was closing. That's why that was so devastating. Honorable mention to the Fox/Moore Ravens debacle.
That's the day I officially became a Bronco fan. As a kid, I liked both teams. I had gear for both. I was a giddy little kid before the game started waving felt pennants for both teams. By the end of the night, I was sad. Thought I liked them equally. Apparently not.

Simple Jaded
02-15-2023, 12:04 AM
Not true. Tebow was great as a power runner. Guy punished defenders and was instrumental in the running game. Can you function as a franchise over a season period of time with him as your QB? No.

Even over a decade later, 2011 is a season I reflect back on as one of my all time favorites. It is a reminder that any time a team takes the field, that they have an opportunity to achieve victory. The game is played on the field, not in the press and not by talking heads opinions.
Yeah, no. He sucked.

Simple Jaded
02-15-2023, 12:06 AM
Taysom Hill sucks, and Tebow was even worse.

King87
02-15-2023, 12:19 AM
Tebow in yo turd cutter, pouty ho.

If I could only be so lucky!!! Thank you, generous matchmaker!!!

Simple Jaded
02-15-2023, 12:33 AM
If I could only be so lucky!!! Thank you, generous matchmaker!!!

H doesn’t deserve you.

King87
02-15-2023, 12:41 AM
H doesn’t deserve you.

The H-Back does!

Elevation inc
02-15-2023, 02:16 AM
within the last 15 years.......2009 with MCD and the spy gate shit against SF in London. I was at the game and the stigma plus the loss was shitty to deal with as a fan, not to mention stupid ass Orton. The playoff loss to the ravens in 2012 was tough as well, but I went snowboarding at breck next day so I moved past it pretty fast lol. Then the Flacco year OMFG....Douche bag mediocre Qb being peddled as the answer in Denver, GTHO so dumb. This year was probably the lowest though in the last 15 years because we haven't seen such inept coaching in Denver since MCD. Some of us were grounded and expected to only be competing for a wild card or simply above .500 record if everything went right, but No one expected this ineptitude on this scale.

Northman
02-15-2023, 10:31 AM
I still suffer that dark time, I have PTSD . . . Post Tebow Sucked Disorder.

Ok, that was good. Lol

King87
02-15-2023, 11:18 AM
within the last 15 years.......2009 with MCD and the spy gate shit against SF in London. I was at the game and the stigma plus the loss was shitty to deal with as a fan, not to mention stupid ass Orton. The playoff loss to the ravens in 2012 was tough as well, but I went snowboarding at breck next day so I moved past it pretty fast lol. Then the Flacco year OMFG....Douche bag mediocre Qb being peddled as the answer in Denver, GTHO so dumb. This year was probably the lowest though in the last 15 years because we haven't seen such inept coaching in Denver since MCD. Some of us were grounded and expected to only be competing for a wild card or simply above .500 record if everything went right, but No one expected this ineptitude on this scale.

We bonded over the Flacco-is-whacko shit.

Elevation inc
02-16-2023, 08:12 AM
We bonded over the Flacco-is-whacko shit.

Utter trash QB and a douchebag as well. F that dude. TS/Orton/Keenum/Teddy/Lock all garbage as well. But Flacco takes the cake because not only was he a trash Qb, his attitude and the kind of person he is sucked royally as well. The others couldn't Qb, but at least weren't shitty human beings... well maybe orton to a degree lol..... but flacco, f that dude forever. Those were dark days for me with him on our team as the so called starter and savior....

Gyldenlove
02-16-2023, 09:26 AM
2022 season between game 6 and 14. Hackett was so obviously useless as a coach that anything the team did on the field was worthless. There was no hope of succeeding because the coaching was sure to sabotage any shred of success that might come our way. I have never just given up and stopped watching football completely in the middle of a season like this year. When Hackett was fired I started watching again and the team gained some fire and actually executed some plays and drives. Watching Hackett bang his head into the wall time after time without realising that the blood in his eyes were caused by his own utter failure killed my soul.

Tned
02-17-2023, 09:12 AM
I think most of us can agree that this upcoming season is one of the most optimistic ones in recent memory. The closest this probably comes for me as far as excitement is maybe around the time we drafted Cutler and had just came off that great season in 2005 even though I'd end up really missing Plummer (so sue me, I liked him! :lol:).

Anyway, before things get rolling with preseason game #1 of what is hopefully a good time for Broncos fans, I am curious as to what your darkest moment as a Broncos fan was? I'm not really talking about eras (such as the McDaniels era) but maybe a game or event that really made you not want to watch football anymore because it was just such a bad time.

Hands down for me it had to be the infamous Raiders home loss a few years ago. Getting steamrolled at home is bad enough, but to lose like that to the RAIDERS was gut wrenching. Before that easily the worst day as a Broncos fan for me was the double punch of getting knocked out of the playoffs against San Francisco than the Darrent Williams shooting after. That was the darkest offseason ever.

Just wanted to do this to offer a little perspective of how cool these times could be in contrast to the past. What are some of your worst fan moments? Firing Shannahan? Getting blown out in a Super Bowl? TD going down? The *shudder* Jacksonville Playoff loss?

Ok, when when reading the title, I thought my answer was going to be the SF super bowl blowout loss, 55-10. Losing the third Super Bowl in four years.

But, I guess the reality is that is also a bit of a champaign problem, since that also meant watching a lot of wins, a great QB, and extended Broncos season every year.

Then, I read McDaniels, and it's yea, I blocked that out, but that era, and the Cutler trade or relegating star WR to scout/punt coverage in practice, etc., was a pretty dark period.

Then, you mentioned the Raider's loss, which I think was 45-15, or something like that. I remember, sort of, but what I really remember was sitting in a hotel lobby bar in Karlsruhe, Germany and that being the first game in decades that I didn't watch or listen to in it's entirety. I think by the second quarter, I had moved on to double black russians, and sometime early in the third, shut my laptop, and the rest of the night (early AM there), was and is a blur.

But, I think the reality, is the darkest time, in many ways, has been the recent revolving door of coaches. We've been rudderless and reactionary, and it makes it hard to "believe" that a turnaround is near. I'm one that's always remind people that the NFL is cyclical and VERY few teams stay on top for extended periods, but instead have a brief periods being at or near the top, and then periods of struggle. The better organizations don't completely implode to low, single digit seasons, but many, if not most, due have periods of being really bad and then really good.

Also, there will be more than a few of my posts going way back talking about being careful what you wish for, when people are calling for a head coach to be fired, because one of the worst purgatories for a club is when they get into the revolving door at HC, when a new HC is brought in, they start to make changes, and then one or two years in, fire the coach, and the new coach comes in with his ideas, makes changes, and before those changes are seen through, fired, rinse and repeat.

So, for me, I think on reflection, as bad as the McDaniels era was and some other painful games or times, it's the recent years and the revolving door at HC that I think is the darkest. I liked what I heard from Sean Payton (sp??) at the press conference the other day, and I hope it bring stability. More than anything, the Broncos need to give a quality HC, and rest of the coaching and front office staff, time to formulate a stategy, build a team, and then see what happens on the field.

Northman
02-17-2023, 09:49 AM
Changing coaches isnt really the problem per se, its that Denver has made the wrong choices at coaches. Coincidentally Denver's success has always happened when we had a HC who already had a good track record (John Fox, Gary Kubiak, Sean Payton?). The rest of the coaches we have chosen have gone on to do nothing at the HC level so im not worried that we made some weird mistake in the last few years other than hiring them in the first place. I was talking with King just last night about how rare it is to hire a young coach and to have success. Right now in the NFL there are exactly 3 that have made water into wine. The rest of the success in the NFL is HC's who have been doing it for a while. So while changing coaches looks bad at least Denver is still trying to get it right and i can appreciate that.

BroncoWave
02-17-2023, 10:15 AM
Changing coaches isnt really the problem per se, its that Denver has made the wrong choices at coaches. Coincidentally Denver's success has always happened when we had a HC who already had a good track record (John Fox, Gary Kubiak, Sean Payton?). The rest of the coaches we have chosen have gone on to do nothing at the HC level so im not worried that we made some weird mistake in the last few years other than hiring them in the first place. I was talking with King just last night about how rare it is to hire a young coach and to have success. Right now in the NFL there are exactly 3 that have made water into wine. The rest of the success in the NFL is HC's who have been doing it for a while. So while changing coaches looks bad at least Denver is still trying to get it right and i can appreciate that.

All those HCs who "have been doing it a while" were at one point a first time head coach too. Like, yeah, guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin have been around a while, but both are still technically on their first head coaching job and had a lot of success early on. There are way more than 3 current coaches this applies to.

Northman
02-17-2023, 04:10 PM
All those HCs who "have been doing it a while" were at one point a first time head coach too. Like, yeah, guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin have been around a while, but both are still technically on their first head coaching job and had a lot of success early on. There are way more than 3 current coaches this applies to.

I think you missed my overall point but to explain further. Yes, Harbaugh and Tomlin are on their first run because they actually succeeded at their job from the word go. None of the coaches we went with had that success and they havent had any success after leaving Denver. But it goes to show that guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin are far more rare than the Fangios, Josephs, Hacketts, and so on.

BroncoWave
02-17-2023, 04:22 PM
I think you missed my overall point but to explain further. Yes, Harbaugh and Tomlin are on their first run because they actually succeeded at their job from the word go. None of the coaches we went with had that success and they havent had any success after leaving Denver. But it goes to show that guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin are far more rare than the Fangios, Josephs, Hacketts, and so on.

It's true that the list of losers are far bigger than the list of great coaches, I just don't think you can limit your candidate pool to only former head coaches who have had success, though. It's great that we got Payton, but guys with his resume aren't usually available.

Simple Jaded
02-17-2023, 10:59 PM
Ok, when when reading the title, I thought my answer was going to be the SF super bowl blowout loss, 55-10. Losing the third Super Bowl in four years.

But, I guess the reality is that is also a bit of a champaign problem, since that also meant watching a lot of wins, a great QB, and extended Broncos season every year.

Then, I read McDaniels, and it's yea, I blocked that out, but that era, and the Cutler trade or relegating star WR to scout/punt coverage in practice, etc., was a pretty dark period.

Then, you mentioned the Raider's loss, which I think was 45-15, or something like that. I remember, sort of, but what I really remember was sitting in a hotel lobby bar in Karlsruhe, Germany and that being the first game in decades that I didn't watch or listen to in it's entirety. I think by the second quarter, I had moved on to double black russians, and sometime early in the third, shut my laptop, and the rest of the night (early AM there), was and is a blur.

But, I think the reality, is the darkest time, in many ways, has been the recent revolving door of coaches. We've been rudderless and reactionary, and it makes it hard to "believe" that a turnaround is near. I'm one that's always remind people that the NFL is cyclical and VERY few teams stay on top for extended periods, but instead have a brief periods being at or near the top, and then periods of struggle. The better organizations don't completely implode to low, single digit seasons, but many, if not most, due have periods of being really bad and then really good.

Also, there will be more than a few of my posts going way back talking about being careful what you wish for, when people are calling for a head coach to be fired, because one of the worst purgatories for a club is when they get into the revolving door at HC, when a new HC is brought in, they start to make changes, and then one or two years in, fire the coach, and the new coach comes in with his ideas, makes changes, and before those changes are seen through, fired, rinse and repeat.

So, for me, I think on reflection, as bad as the McDaniels era was and some other painful games or times, it's the recent years and the revolving door at HC that I think is the darkest. I liked what I heard from Sean Payton (sp??) at the press conference the other day, and I hope it bring stability. More than anything, the Broncos need to give a quality HC, and rest of the coaching and front office staff, time to formulate a stategy, build a team, and then see what happens on the field.

Joel, what have you done with Tned?

Nomad
02-18-2023, 10:03 AM
I miss Joel. I hope he’s doing well.

Simple Jaded
02-18-2023, 01:23 PM
I miss Joel. I hope he’s doing well.

He used to lurk but I don’t know anymore.

aberdien
02-18-2023, 02:21 PM
King's darkest moment of Broncos fandom:

https://twitter.com/MileHighMoments/status/1626779536611241990?s=20

Nomad
02-18-2023, 02:50 PM
He used to lurk but I don’t know anymore.

He’s a family man now in the Houston area. I’m proud of him.

King87
02-18-2023, 05:04 PM
King's darkest moment of Broncos fandom:

https://twitter.com/MileHighMoments/status/1626779536611241990?s=20


Being harassed by true believers for an entire offseason because I wasn’t buying into the obvious shit move of Keenum AND THEN called a bad fan for pointing it out in the regular season was poop.

But TS was worse as a timeline.

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 03:35 AM
King's darkest moment of Broncos fandom:

https://twitter.com/MileHighMoments/status/1626779536611241990?s=20
Keesum’s time in Denver turned out exactly as I had hoped.

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 03:39 AM
JFC, how do you people root for that shit?

BroncoWave
02-19-2023, 11:07 AM
JFC, how do you people root for that shit?

I tend to root for whomever is playing for the Broncos at any given time. Insane concept, I know!

BroncoJoe
02-19-2023, 11:44 AM
I tend to root for whomever is playing for the Broncos at any given time. Insane concept, I know!

I'm a fan of the Broncos, not individuals. Once they put on the uniform though, I am a fan of them and will root for them!

Nomad
02-19-2023, 11:59 AM
Jake Plummer!!! :D

Nomad
02-19-2023, 12:02 PM
I tend to root for whomever is playing for the Broncos at any given time. Insane concept, I know!


I'm a fan of the Broncos, not individuals. Once they put on the uniform though, I am a fan of them and will root for them!

The two best posts ever. Geaux Broncos!! :defense:

Nomad
02-19-2023, 01:41 PM
Jake Plummer!!! :D

BTW…I wasn’t referencing Plummer as a dark day. I was referencing him as a Bronco. Jake was one of the bright spots in Broncos history.

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 07:27 PM
I tend to root for whomever is playing for the Broncos at any given time. Insane concept, I know!

Barf

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 07:28 PM
I'm a fan of the Broncos, not individuals. Once they put on the uniform though, I am a fan of them and will root for them!

Makes zero sense to root for shit like Tebow, this isn’t a Disney movie.

King87
02-19-2023, 07:39 PM
Makes zero sense to root for shit like Tebow, this isn’t a Disney movie.

Was it something he said?

Nomad
02-19-2023, 08:02 PM
Makes zero sense to root for shit like Tebow, this isn’t a Disney movie.

I even rooted for Cutler.

Northman
02-19-2023, 08:34 PM
I root for them until they give me reason not to.

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 09:18 PM
I even rooted for Cutler.

Cutler was actually an NFL QB, not some sentimental novelty that literally had no business being an NFL QB.

BroncoWave
02-19-2023, 10:06 PM
Cutler was actually an NFL QB, not some sentimental novelty that literally had no business being an NFL QB.

Cutler had exactly as many career playoff appearances and wins as Tebow.

King87
02-19-2023, 10:13 PM
Cutler had NFL talent. He was also a pouty ho and could never win anything on his own back. You had the same chance of winning a SB with both of them.

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 11:22 PM
Cutler had NFL talent. He was also a pouty ho and could never win anything on his own back. You had the same chance of winning a SB with both of them.

Lolololololololololololol9lololllllpppppp;

Simple Jaded
02-19-2023, 11:23 PM
Cutler had exactly as many career playoff appearances and wins as Tebow.

:drum:

King87
02-20-2023, 12:31 AM
Lolololololololololololol9lololllllpppppp;

He didn’t care about football. You can’t win with a guy like that at QB. I know it doesn’t check out via combine reps and what not, but the human part of the sport matters.

King87
02-20-2023, 01:16 AM
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/brandon-marshall-says-jay-cutler-was-bad-qb-who-lacked-leadership

Look at how relieved B-Marsh was; the truth came out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojxeP8XPX-0&t=3s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPG8fAGt0R8
Devin Hester says Jay Cutler was the worst leader he ever played with.

You can't win a SB with a guy like Cutler.

7DnBrnc53
02-20-2023, 03:20 AM
Devin Hester says Jay Cutler was the worst leader he ever played with.

You can't win a SB with a guy like Cutler.

And to think, I thought in 2008 that Cutler was going to lead a potential dynasty in Denver in the 2010's. They had a loaded offense. All they needed was a decent defense, and they would have been scary. However, Cutler didn't have the character to do that. Him and Jeff George have to be the most disliked QB's in NFL history.

BroncoWave
02-20-2023, 08:33 AM
So basically what I'm reading is that Josh McDaniels was right. Got to Denver, saw he was a cancer, booted him, and the guy he drafted won just as many playoff games as the guy he is still to this day criticized for trading away!

Simple Jaded
02-20-2023, 12:19 PM
You can’t win SB’s w/o Cutler’s talent. Josh McDouche was wrong, he was wrong for trading all his best players and, most importantly, he was the wrong hire in the first place.

BroncoWave
02-20-2023, 12:25 PM
You can’t win SB’s w/o Cutler’s talent.

And you can't win them when a QB with his shitty leadership and lack of mental acuity for the game. Culter was never going to win a super bowl just like Tebow was never going to, because neither had the whole package a QB needs to be able to elevate his team to that level. All Cutler will do is trick you into thinking you can compete with his talent and keep you in constant 8 win purgatory. At least Tebow was so bad that it made it easy to make a clean break from him instead of letting him fool you for years.

King87
02-20-2023, 12:35 PM
You can’t win SB’s w/o Cutler’s talent. Josh McDouche was wrong, he was wrong for trading all his best players and, most importantly, he was the wrong hire in the first place.

The you find the talent attached to someone who isn’t a turd.

Nomad
02-20-2023, 01:03 PM
Cutler was actually an NFL QB, not some sentimental novelty that literally had no business being an NFL QB.

Didn’t say I liked him, I did root for him as a Bronco. I wasn’t sad when McDaniels traded him away.

Traveler
02-20-2023, 02:21 PM
Mine was the SB against Washington. Never saw such ineptitude by the Broncos, especially Tony Lilly, and dominating offensive output by Doug Williams and the rest of their offense. What makes it worse, DEN was favored to win that game. The topper was I was foolish enough to bet $1000 on Denver.

King87
02-20-2023, 04:33 PM
So basically what I'm reading is that Josh McDaniels was right. Got to Denver, saw he was a cancer, booted him, and the guy he drafted won just as many playoff games as the guy he is still to this day criticized for trading away!

I think he wanted Cutler out anyway, and to support that the almost immediacy of the trade attempt/McD targeting his old QB Cassel just doesn't sit right. I think McD was the wrong hire and McCutlet was the wrong QB.

Tebow was a horrible choice in the first round and only won due to a perfect storm of ******y. But that ******y was fun and way better than the OG Pouty Ho Jay Cutler.

BroncoJoe
02-20-2023, 04:34 PM
King giving up on being a Broncos' fan.

:(

King87
02-20-2023, 04:40 PM
King giving up on being a Broncos' fan.

:(

I still pull from y'all like I always did. But this is best for everyone. Northman stopped me from being a Chiefs fan; boy that might have been awkward.

:ninja:

BroncoWave
02-20-2023, 04:42 PM
I think he wanted Cutler out anyway, and to support that the almost immediacy of the trade attempt/McD targeting his old QB Cassel just doesn't sit right. I think McD was the wrong hire and McCutlet was the wrong QB.

Tebow was a horrible choice in the first round and only won due to a perfect storm of ******y. But that ******y was fun and way better than the OG Pouty Ho Jay Cutler.

Cutler is literally the perfect example to counter all this "talent is all that matters!" BS that Jaded spews on the daily. Dude plays the most impactful position in sports, had more arm talent than probably anyone in the league while he played, had a 12 year career, and only even MADE the playoffs once. Forget winning playoff games, only even made it there once. Even Stafford on all those garbage Lions teams he had to play on got them to the playoffs 3 times.

Cutler literally could not be better proof that having all the talent in the world means jack shit if you are dumb and/or suck to play with.

King87
02-20-2023, 04:45 PM
Cutler is literally the perfect example to counter all this "talent is all that matters!" BS that Jaded spews on the daily. Dude plays the most impactful position in sports, had more arm talent than probably anyone in the league while he played, had a 12 year career, and only even MADE the playoffs once. Forget winning playoff games, only even made it there once. Even Stafford on all those garbage Lions teams he had to play on got them to the playoffs 3 times.

Cutler literally could not be better proof that having all the talent in the world means jack shit if you are dumb and/or suck to play with.

How your teammates perceive you matters. Kudos to you for shouting out Stafford; this is the way.

BroncoWave
02-20-2023, 04:49 PM
How your teammates perceive you matters. Kudos to you for shouting out Stafford; this is the way.

I was critical of Stafford a lot in Detroit, but in hindsight he probably made the absolute most he possibly could have out of that garbage roster. Both situations Cutler was in were better than that Detroit situation, and he did jack shit with it.

King87
02-20-2023, 05:23 PM
I was critical of Stafford a lot in Detroit, but in hindsight he probably made the absolute most he possibly could have out of that garbage roster. Both situations Cutler was in were better than that Detroit situation, and he did jack shit with it.

He is a useful guy to use when discussing production and what is good production contextually. Too bad his time in Detroit ruined his body and shortened his career. When his time comes up for HoF consideration I hope the voters look at his raw numbers overall, as they should. But I also hope they look at his production within the context of playing in Detroit.

Imagine Stafford on the Broncos instead of Cutler. That's spicy.

aberdien
02-20-2023, 08:35 PM
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/brandon-marshall-says-jay-cutler-was-bad-qb-who-lacked-leadership

Look at how relieved B-Marsh was; the truth came out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojxeP8XPX-0&t=3s

Devin Hester says Jay Cutler was the worst leader he ever played with.

You can't win a SB with a guy like Cutler.
When the graphic came up saying "Breaking News: Brandon Marshall says Jay Cutler was bad" lmao

Simple Jaded
02-21-2023, 12:09 AM
That shitshow is somehow proof that Jay Cutler could never win a SB? He doesn’t “galvanize” , that’s your chickenshit point?

Gimme a f’n break.

I done seen/heard it all.

Jay Cutler made that dude rich, I’m sure that did nothing to “galvanize” their relationship.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2023, 12:13 AM
The money those two made together went a ****ton further in “galvanizing” than Bedweter’s Timing or Tebow’s genuflecting. And if you argue with that I will gladly see my way out of this so-called debate, because at that point you’re just completely ignoring reality.

King87
02-21-2023, 12:54 AM
I mean Marshall is probably a HoFer and produced with all kinds of QBs, but yeah I’m sure it was all Cutler.

Just because you don’t care about the human side of life doesn’t negate it. Dude bombed everywhere and was plagued with tales of being a bum. Deion called him out on it. Marshall called him out, Hester called him out. Either it’s just a conspiracy against Cutler or athletes aren’t lying about how leadership matters.

Elevation inc
02-21-2023, 05:11 AM
I mean Marshall is probably a HoFer and produced with all kinds of QBs, but yeah I’m sure it was all Cutler.

Just because you don’t care about the human side of life doesn’t negate it. Dude bombed everywhere and was plagued with tales of being a bum. Deion called him out on it. Marshall called him out, Hester called him out. Either it’s just a conspiracy against Cutler or athletes aren’t lying about how leadership matters.

Leadership does matter but when one focus's only on that you get stuck with Teddy B's.....which leads nowhere as well. It's got to be a shitload of talent, in a guy that cares about football and knows how to lead. thats what you look for at QB. However since that is rare many teams are left reaching for the great leaders with shit arms and traits or the awesome traits with brains chalk full of stupid :lol:

BroncoWave
02-21-2023, 06:01 AM
The money those two made together went a ****ton further in “galvanizing” than Bedweter’s Timing or Tebow’s genuflecting. And if you argue with that I will gladly see my way out of this so-called debate, because at that point you’re just completely ignoring reality.

The only person ignoring reality here is you. Cutler had a 12 year career and made the playoffs once. Once. The Tim Tebows and Brock Purdys of the world can make it once. The only thing that ultimately matters in this league is winning, and teams led by Cutler simply didn't do that.

BroncoWave
02-21-2023, 06:04 AM
Leadership does matter but when one focus's only on that you get stuck with Teddy B's.....which leads nowhere as well. It's got to be a shitload of talent, in a guy that cares about football and knows how to lead. thats what you look for at QB. However since that is rare many teams are left reaching for the great leaders with shit arms and traits or the awesome traits with brains chalk full of stupid :lol:

This is exactly it. What jaded just won't accept is that a talented QB with shit for brains and bad leadership is just as bad as a noodle arm QB with good mental traits and leadership. Both are equally important, and QBs who don't have both will ultimately fail.