Terrell Davis or Barry Sanders?

[CrazyHorse]

Who do you think was the better overall running back and more importantly why?

[Dzone]

Good question. Hard to say what Sanders would have done on another team.

TD was amazing in his prime and it is so wrong that Curtis Martin is in the HOF and TD is not. I am sure there are many who think differently. Would anyone ever take Martin over TD for one season? No freakin way.

Im going to say TD over Sanders because of what TD did in the playoffs and SB.

[Canmore]

Good question. Hard to say what Sanders would have done on another team.

TD was amazing in his prime and it is so wrong that Curtis Martin is in the HOF and TD is not. I am sure there are many who think differently. Would anyone ever take Martin over TD for one season? No freakin way.

Im going to say TD over Sanders because of what TD did in the playoffs and SB.


It is hard to argue with Davis' post season production. I feel that Davis is the best post season back in the history of the NFL. For that reason alone he deserves to be in the HOF.

I've said it before, in 97 and 98 we had the best running game in the NFL, specifically TD was more consistent than Barry Sanders. TD did not make negative plays. Sanders arguably was the most exciting back in the history of the league. Both averaged 5 yards per carry but I always believed that Sanders had to many negative plays. Still, who was the better overall back. Sanders was healthy his entire career, TD's career cut short. I'm a homer, I will take the healthy Davis, especially the post season version, 143 yards a game and 5.6 yards per attempt. Unbelievable numbers.

[MOtorboat]

Barry Sanders.

/THREAD

[sneakers]

Barry sanders had a knack of lots of negative yard carries that often gets overlooked.

[Northman]

Too hard for me, i know Sanders was an amazing RB but to me for the short time period that TD was in the league i had not seen any back better than him. Too hard to really say for me so im going to be biased. TD FTW

[MOtorboat]

Barry sanders had a knack of lots of negative yard carries that often gets overlooked.

Sanders had a career ypc of 5.0. Davis had a career of ypc of 4.6.

Sanders had five years with ypc over 5.0 and one over 6.0. Davis had one (his 2,000 yard season).

[sneakers]

Sanders had a career ypc of 5.0. Davis had a career of ypc of 4.6.

Sanders had five years with ypc over 5.0 and one over 6.0. Davis had one (his 2,000 yard season).

He lead the league EVERY YEAR in negative yard carries! Also, when you are down by 28 points in the 3rd quarter like the lions ALWAYS were in the 90s, the other team will let you run the ball.

[MOtorboat]

He lead the league EVERY YEAR in negative yard carries! Also, when you are down by 28 points in the 3rd quarter like the lions ALWAYS were in the 90s, the other team will let you run the ball.

But clearly, even with that, he still had a ypc that is one of the best all time.

[sneakers]

Sanders would have carries of -2, 3, 5, 7, -2, 3, 82, 4, 6, -1, etc. Sure he would have lots of breakaway runs for big yards (this would affect his average), but most of the time, he was not very consistant

[sneakers]

lol sneakers is talking football

[sneakers]

With sanders it was Feast or famine, I would rather have someone who is consistant every drive....(don't forget for years the lions went to a different back in goal line situations)

[MOtorboat]

Sanders would have carries of -2, 3, 5, 7, -2, 3, 82, 4, 6, -1, etc. Sure he would have lots of breakaway runs for big yards (this would affect his average), but most of the time, he was not very consistant

I would normally agree with you.

But not with Sanders.

[gregbroncs]

I love TD as much as the next Broncos fan. But besides maybe Walter Payton I think Sanders is the best back I ever saw. He played with one of the worst lines in football and that is why he had so many negative carries. Hell it seemed like half the time he had a guy hanging on him by the time he took the ball from the QB. If Sanders had played longer (damn Lions for not trading him) he would have the all time rushing record.

[Softskull]

I hate being put in a position to not show TD some love, but Barry was an absolute freak and always played on crappy teams. He was truely one of a kind. TD was playing on a great offense with a HOF QB, TE, and LT. The 97 Broncos were stacked on O.

[MOtorboat]

I compared Age 23-26 seasons, TD's four top level seasons.

Davis: 1,343 carries, 6,413 yards, 56 TDs.

Sanders: 1,228 carries, 5,898 yards, 35 TDs.

BUT, Sanders from age 26-29 for Sanders...

1,287 carries, 6,989, 40 TDs.

Davis' full career, age 23-29
1,655 carries, 7,607 yards, 60 TDs.

Sanders, age 23-29
2,184 carries, 11,004 yards, 68 TDs.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

TD was fantastic for us, but c'mon. IMO, Barry Sanders was the absolute best RB of all time. He would've made mincemeat of opponents had he ran behind the lines that TD did. Good Lord, I shudder to think of Sanders behind our ZBS of the late 90's... Un-frickin' stoppable. Can you imagine him pressing the front side hole, putting his foot in the ground and hitting the cutback lane at full speed (he was the best ever at that)?

Don't get me wrong I love me some TD, but Barry Sanders would be the first back I'd want in my backfield every time. No doubt.

[MileHighCrew]

the fact TD can compare to Sanders in a conversation like this and his numbers are comparable, show why he should be in the HOF now!!!!!

[chazoe60]

Unfortunately because of his relatively short career TD is never going to come out on top of these type of comparrisons. In all honesty the career shortening injury to TD is the most frusterating thing for me in all my life as a Bronco fan, player deaths obviously not included in that.

Yes the SB losses were absolutely crushing, but they were such blowouts that it's really hard to look back on them and say "if only we'd have done this or that" so those, while disappointing, are not all that frustrating to me. The Jags playoff loss destroyed me at the time, but looking back on it I wonder if John would have retired sooner had we won that game and moved on. Also I wonder how much that loss was the inspiration for the team the next year so looking at it now maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

The TD injury, to me, is a completely devestating thing because of the "what coulda been's". Yes, you ask me now who was better TD or Barry and I have to honestly say Barry, it's just being realistic. But, if you ask me how good I think TD could have been had he not been injured and I can honestly tell you that I think the sky was the limit. TD could have retired as the greatest RB in history, he had all the tools. He had that rare mixture of speed and strength that so few RBs have. He could make you miss(remember the spin moves?) and he could run through you.

That's why that injury still saddens me today. All that greatness we missed because of one shitty play.


So don't ask these comparisson questions with TD because the answer can never be as easy as yes or no.

[SoCalImport]

I love TD but c'mon. Barry Feakin Sanders. Has anyone come close to his kind of talent? I don't think so.

no comparison between the surrounding casts that each had. Barry WAS the Lions for years and would routinely make (seemingly) the entire defense miss. TD did some of what Barry could do but IMHO Barry Sanders could do everything TD did.

Greatest HB of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU

[Simple Jaded]

Besides Sweetness TD was my favorite RB to watch. I'm takin TD.......

[BroncoWave]

I love TD but you'd have to be high to take him over Sanders.

[Jsteve01]

Funny that you say sweetness jaded. I've always felt he was the most similar back to td and I'm sorry but the question wasn't who was the best back for a short period in their career. It was Sanders vs td and as much as I love td there is no question who was the better back. I completely agree with chazoe tds injury was my greatest disappointment as a broncos fan

[Simple Jaded]

Funny that you say sweetness jaded. I've always felt he was the most similar back to td and I'm sorry but the question wasn't who was the best back for a short period in their career. It was Sanders vs td and as much as I love td there is no question who was the better back. I completely agree with chazoe tds injury was my greatest disappointment as a broncos fan
Oh shit. I guess I should read the question before answering.......

[Canmore]

I love TD but you'd have to be high to take him over Sanders.

And I thought I was just being a homer. Now I know what the problem is, lol.

[Simple Jaded]

I love TD but you'd have to be high to take him over Sanders.

I would, I'd take a few RB's over Sanders.......

[CrazyHorse]

My rational for picking TD over Sanders is because TD was a a more complete back. Sanders is probably the most elusive back of all time but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. It would be similar to saying Randy Moss is the best receiver ever because he's a consistent deep threat. Sanders offensive line did have a HOFer and Probowler on it at one point so I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be.

As talented as Sanders is I still see him as being somewhat one dimensional. I would say Davis is a better pass blocker, 3rd down, and goal line back. Davis was also much more productive in the post season. I think that's enough to elevate him above Barry. If TD never got injured or Sanders played for a different team it would have been interesting to see how things would have turned out.

[CrazyHorse]

I would, I'd take a few RB's over Sanders.......

Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson?

[chazoe60]

Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson?
Jim Brown, Walter Payton

[Canmore]

Jim Brown, Walter Payton

That's where my list of those available stopped.

[CrazyHorse]

Come on now. The latter 3 are much more multidimensional Sanders. That's specifically the reason I picked them. I highly value versatility.

[OrangeHoof]

I don't know how you can choose. Davis was obviously better and was a beast in the postseasen but Sanders was excellent for a much longer time. It's like comparing Mickey Mantle with Hank Aaron. Mantle, in his prime, was clearly better but Aaron was great over a much longer period.

[Ziggy]

Put Barry Sanders behind John Elway and the offensive lines that TD had, and Sanders has 4-5 2000 yard seasons. He played behind bad quarterbacks and offensive lines most of his career. He faced 8-11 in the box nearly every play of his career. He carried his team single handedly his entire career, and was unstoppable even when defenses only had to game plan for him. I love TD, but Sanders was a better back.

[Dzone]

I love TD but you'd have to be high to take him over Sanders.
It was the chronic:salute:

[NightTrainLayne]

I can't believe this is even a question.

[CrazyHorse]

I can't believe this is even a question.

Why? It's really a question of pure talent and longevity versus versatility and accomplishment.

[Simple Jaded]

Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson?

Brown, Payton, Faulk, Dickerson, Sayers. Sanders is up there, I'm not saying I have anything against him.......

[gregbroncs]

I can't believe this is even a question.It is a question because it's a Broncos board. It's close because it's a Broncos board. Any board for any other team and this is a landslide in Sanders' favor.

[gregbroncs]

Come on now. The latter 3 are much more multidimensional Sanders. That's specifically the reason I picked them. I highly value versatility.Emmit Smith? Seriously? That guy is the most overrated back I've seen. Played behind the best O-line in football with a stacked offense and still rarely beat Sanders in yards for the season.

[CrazyHorse]

Emmit Smith? Seriously? That guy is the most overrated back I've seen. Played behind the best O-line in football with a stacked offense and still rarely beat Sanders in yards for the season.

Emmitt was a better receiver, better pass blocker, better 3rd down back, was capable of being a goal line back, and didn't disappear in the playoffs. He can't help it he was on a better team. Sanders was more elusive and a better pure runner but this isn't about who is a better runner. It's about who played better at the multifaceted football position of running back.

[pnbronco]

Put Barry Sanders behind John Elway and the offensive lines that TD had, and Sanders has 4-5 2000 yard seasons. He played behind bad quarterbacks and offensive lines most of his career. He faced 8-11 in the box nearly every play of his career. He carried his team single handedly his entire career, and was unstoppable even when defenses only had to game plan for him. I love TD, but Sanders was a better back.

I make homers look like wimps, but Barry Sanders carried his team for so long. Our line in the SB years were just amazing, plus TD had Howard Griffith, our last real FB. TD was special, but I would pick Sanders every day and twice on Sunday....

[CrazyHorse]

I make homers look like wimps, but Barry Sanders carried his team for so long. Our line in the SB years were just amazing, plus TD had Howard Griffith, our last real FB. TD was special, but I would pick Sanders every day and twice on Sunday....
Even on goal line or short yardage situations?

Barry didn't play with a fullback because it wasn't conducive to his style. How many times have you seen him actually follow his blocks?

[Canmore]

Even on goal line or short yardage situations?

Barry didn't play with a fullback because it wasn't conducive to his style. How many times have you seen him actually follow his blocks?

I felt we had the best goal line or short yardage back in Terrell Davis. He certainly was among the league leaders.

[Magnificent Seven]

Walter Payton. Best rusher in my opinion. He was an amazing rusher.

[Chef Zambini]

Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson?I agree with your first 4 and in that order !
sanders, elusive
TD defiant, he ran thru tackles, rather than avoid them.
on third and 3, I would take TD! chosing side for a game, I got TD.
a choiuce of DVDs of greatest runs from scrimmage ok, maybe sanders for that one.

[Chef Zambini]

Walter Payton. Best rusher in my opinion. He was an amazing rusher.you never saw jim brown play.

[Dzone]

Gale Sayers? His career was short and less productive than TD, yet he is in the HOF. Sayers playoff production: 0.
How about Floyd Little? Love that he is in the HOF, but would you pick him over TD for your team?

[Northman]

So don't ask these comparisson questions with TD because the answer can never be as easy as yes or no.

Exactly.

Thats why i just went with TD knowing it was going to be a biased selection anyway. Too many unknowns.

[silkamilkamonico]

Sanders over TD
Barry was an absolute freak who played for a shitty organization on terrible teams.
IMHO, for as much as I loved TD, it isn't even an argument

[Chef Zambini]

I think they called gayle the comet, and much like a comet was his NFL career.
I met SAYERS, it almost made me cry to see how he struggled to stand after sitting in a chair. GS is a huge TD proponent for TD to be in the HOF !
Sayers was special,like jim brown he could run around you or thru you, he had power, speed and elusive moves.
JB was the best ever, GS reminds me the most of JB.

[Nomad]

you never saw jim brown play.

If someone here did watch him live....that means they're an old fart.:lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

Watching Jim Brown play RB in his era was like watching Michael Phelps swim in the Beijing Olympics.

[Dzone]

Jim Brown was in The Dirty Dozen. Who remembers that movie? Lee Marvin wa sin it and charles bronson and a bunch of other guys. Jim Brown made some movie with raquel welch.
Jim Brown retired at the absolute prime of his career. He was dominating the league. He won an NFL championship.. He played in 12 game seasons and then seasons were extended to 14 games.
He is the greatest running back ever.
Sayers played on some horrible teams. I think one year they only won 1 game. Even Butkus on defense.

These are good pub arguments to engage in without having to go to a bar LOL

[Chef Zambini]

I saw that film in the theater, I went because jim brown was in it ! awesome movie, the dirty dozen! telly savalas, world war two piece, it still holds up as good entertainment !
lots of good cliche roles for type cast actors !
jim brown played a fast black guy, genius !
sayers was no actor, he coudnt even play himself in the brian piccolo story. and that is still one of the best sports films ever, even if it was made for TV !

[Chef Zambini]

the raquel welch movie is what ended the career of arguablky the greatest football player ever !
lets see
i can have 11 guiys try to take my head off or cripple me every sunday,
or, I can have sex with some of the hottest women on the planet...

tough choice.

[Chef Zambini]

If someone here did watch him live....that means they're an old fart.:lol:
pardon me.

[Poet]

Sanders would have carries of -2, 3, 5, 7, -2, 3, 82, 4, 6, -1, etc. Sure he would have lots of breakaway runs for big yards (this would affect his average), but most of the time, he was not very consistant

Be careful, actually applying math to see how the numbers came to be in context is frowned upon.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

By reading some of these posts, it seems a lot of people see Sanders as some kind of 1 trick pony/ scat back. Barry had PLENTY of power and could get the tough yards, too. From reading this thread, it appears most people defending TD over Sanders have only ever seen Sanders' highlights. Imagine Tomlinson in his prime for 10 straight years and that's Sanders. One of only 2 RBs in history (the other being Curtis Martin) to run for over 1000 yards for 10 consecutive years... playing for the Lions

[CrazyHorse]

Emmitt Smith rushed for 1,000 yards 11 consecutive years. I guess you forgot about him.

[Chef Zambini]

emit was awesome, best performance by an NFL back i ever sdaw live.
Granted it was against the cards in his second year, but guys were taceling a vapor trail, wrapping their arms around the place he used to occupy.
I have seen TD and floyd little live, I loved both, but what I saw from emmit was unlike anything i have ever witnessed live.
those who try to tell me about how shitty the detroit teams were thaty barry sanders played on, have no idea what floyd little had to go thru !

[BroncoStud]

Barry Sanders is the greatest RB of all-time. There is no debate here. As good as TD was, we're talking Barry Sanders here...

[CrazyHorse]

Barry Sanders is the greatest RB of all-time. There is no debate here. As good as TD was, we're talking Barry Sanders here...

Over Jim Brown, Walter Peyton, Emmitt Smith, or even Ladanian Tomlinson or Marshall Faulk? Pure runner I could agree with, but RB no way. What about as a pass blocker, 3rd down, goal line, short yardage, and as a receiver? Is Barry better at all these than the guys I've listed?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Emmitt Smith rushed for 1,000 yards 11 consecutive years. I guess you forgot about him.

You're right, I meant to say his first 10 years.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Over Jim Brown, Walter Peyton, Emmitt Smith, or even Ladanian Tomlinson or Marshall Faulk? Pure runner I could agree with, but RB no way. What about as a pass blocker, 3rd down, goal line, short yardage, and as a receiver? Is Barry better at all these than the guys I've listed?

Seeing as how Sanders never came out of the game in any of the situations you listed, I think he was pretty good in those situations. As for receiving, lets take the top 2 guys on your list (modern era, I don't put Jim Brown in there), Sanders' lowest receiving total (catches) in a year was 24, his highest 48. Payton's lowest was 15 and highest was 53. Smith's lowest was 11 and highest was 62 so the numbers are comparable.

I'm not even going to try to compare stats between Tomlinson and Faulk in receiving with any of the other guys because they played in the "golden age" of passing stats and both played with much better QBs, than Sanders ever did. Once again, the point lots of guys miss out on when discussing Sanders is: "who else?".

Smith had Aikman, Irvin, Novacek, Johnston, and the biggest/baddest O-line in the league. Payton had a very good O-line but not much else (hence why he's #2 on my all time list). Faulk had Manning/Warner, Bruce/Holt, and Dick Vermeil (like him or not, he was great at getting Marshall the ball in space), Thomlinson had Brees/Rivers, Gates, and Lorenzo Neal lead blocking for him.

Who did Sanders have, ever, to help him out / take some of the pressure off of him?

[chazoe60]

Payton, Brown (<-------those two are interchangeable), and Sanders. That's the list. That's the order. So sayeth Thor! So quit arguing about it.

[CoachChaz]

Here's the best way to do this. Leave all Cowboys, Bears, Lions, Broncos and Browns fans out of the equation...then ask who the best RB ever was. Almost all fans are going to have a bias for their guy.

Problem is...it can never e put in context due to the various differences. Put Jim Brown behind Sanders line...Put Sanders behind TD's line...let TD play another 5 years...put Emmitt on a team in the salary cap era...

Too many variables to make it anything other than opinion. My vote...

Jim Brown...all I have is highlights to go by
Terrell Davis...rooted for him more than any other back
Emmitt Smith...most consistently productive back I ever watched
Walter Payton...2nd most consistently productive back I ever watched
Barry Sanders...by far, the most exciting player I have ever watched on a football field, regardless of position.

[Chef Zambini]

fran tarkenton was the most exciting QB i ever watched. fran was the barry sanders of QBs. nobody is calling FT the best QB ever,
I loved watching BS play, I too wonder what he might have done with a better team, just like floyd little.
there will always be bias, but anyone who saw jim brown play, or at least has had a chance to watch his highlights, will tell you he did it all and did it bettere than anyone they have ever seen.

[Northman]

Here's the best way to do this. Leave all Cowboys, Bears, Lions, Broncos and Browns fans out of the equation...then ask who the best RB ever was. Almost all fans are going to have a bias for their guy.

Problem is...it can never e put in context due to the various differences. Put Jim Brown behind Sanders line...Put Sanders behind TD's line...let TD play another 5 years...put Emmitt on a team in the salary cap era...

Too many variables to make it anything other than opinion. My vote...

Jim Brown...all I have is highlights to go by
Terrell Davis...rooted for him more than any other back
Emmitt Smith...most consistently productive back I ever watched
Walter Payton...2nd most consistently productive back I ever watched
Barry Sanders...by far, the most exciting player I have ever watched on a football field, regardless of position.

Pretty much my view.

[G_Money]

Sanders retired completely healthy, with a good 5 years left in his career, just because he was so pissed off at his team for jerking him around. TD couldn't run in even 80 games, and only really had 4 seasons of production.

The goal of people facing the Broncos was to stop TD (HOF talent level), and Sharpe (HOFer) and Eddie Mac, and oh yeah, that GOAT candidate Elway.

The goal of those facing the Lions: stop Barry Sanders. Scott Mitchell, the corpse of Dave Krieg, Rodney Peete, Eric Kramer, Andre Freaking Ware, Charlie Batch... They weren't scaring anybody.

For what we did? TD was the perfect back. For one game against a specific type of defense, there's a debate. But if you think we wouldn't have won Super Bowls with Sanders on those Broncos teams, you're SADLY mistaken. He was a cutback runner too and would have loved not having to dodge everybody that Lomas Brown wasn't blocking just to get back to the LOS. Our cut-blocking monstrosity of an OL would have had him licking his chops.

If you could swap one career for another - 4 years of one of the best backs in the league or 10 (to maybe 15) of Barry's HOF career, taking TD's is keeping your window awfully small.

I'm incredibly grateful to TD for coming along when he did. We were lucky to have him, and he was a 4-year monster that gave me so much joy to watch.

I'd still take Barry.

~G

[Ziggy]

Comparing Walter Payton and Barry Sanders's stats to Emmit Smith's stats is comparing apples to oranges.

For example: Walter Payton averaged 1330 yards per season in his first 10 seasons. Emmit Smith averaged 1396 yards his first 10 seasons. That looks pretty close until you factor in the rest of the equation. Emmit Smith ran behind the best offensive line in the history of the NFL, and had a great fullback, hall of fame quarterback and hall of fame wide receiver on the same offense. Six of his offensive lineman during that time went to a combined 22 pro bowls. He had holes to run through that you could have parked an 18 wheeler in.

During Walter Payton's first 10 years the Bears didn't have a single pro bowl offensive lineman. He also played with below average quarterbacks, wide receivers and fullbacks. He was the entire Chicago Bears offense. He faced 11 men in the box nearly every week. He often had to make his own holes, because there weren't any being created by his teammates.

Barry Sanders was just electric. He had no talent around him as well, facing the same defensive looks that Payton did. It didn't matter. He could stop on a dime and be up to full speed by his second step. He embarrased defenders on a regular basis. He was the only player in the NFL that I would pay to go see outside of the Broncos regardless of who he was playing, and how badly outmatched his team was.

Emmit shouldn't be completely discredited from the conversation just because he played with great players. He took full advantage of the opportunities that he had. But ask anyone who watched all of those players on a regular basis and nearly all of them will tell you that Emmit Smith on those Lions or Bears teams wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as the other two....especially if those other two had played for that Cowboys team.

[Northman]

The more and more i think about this the more silly it seems overall. As an individual Sanders has the edge but the reality is you swap out TD with Sanders and the result is the same. Both are great backs that would flourish behind the Denver oline so for me, i would still stick with TD. Your not losing anything by taking one over the other.

[Chef Zambini]

there is no winner in this arguement, the value is in the discussion.

[Chef Zambini]

... did somebody metion bias?
ask barry sanders' dad who the best running back of all time was and he will tell you without question it was jim brown !

[Chef Zambini]

Comparing Walter Payton and Barry Sanders's stats to Emmit Smith's stats is comparing apples to oranges.

For example: Walter Payton averaged 1330 yards per season in his first 10 seasons. Emmit Smith averaged 1396 yards his first 10 seasons. That looks pretty close until you factor in the rest of the equation. Emmit Smith ran behind the best offensive line in the history of the NFL, and had a great fullback, hall of fame quarterback and hall of fame wide receiver on the same offense. Six of his offensive lineman during that time went to a combined 22 pro bowls. He had holes to run through that you could have parked an 18 wheeler in.

During Walter Payton's first 10 years the Bears didn't have a single pro bowl offensive lineman. He also played with below average quarterbacks, wide receivers and fullbacks. He was the entire Chicago Bears offense. He faced 11 men in the box nearly every week. He often had to make his own holes, because there weren't any being created by his teammates.

Barry Sanders was just electric. He had no talent around him as well, facing the same defensive looks that Payton did. It didn't matter. He could stop on a dime and be up to full speed by his second step. He embarrased defenders on a regular basis. He was the only player in the NFL that I would pay to go see outside of the Broncos regardless of who he was playing, and how badly outmatched his team was.

Emmit shouldn't be completely discredited from the conversation just because he played with great players. He took full advantage of the opportunities that he had. But ask anyone who watched all of those players on a regular basis and nearly all of them will tell you that Emmit Smith on those Lions or Bears teams wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as the other two....especially if those other two had played for that Cowboys team.
I saluted this post , but I have to take exception to itregarding your emmit smith comments. yes hw was surrounded by talent, but faced with one on one situations emmit was able to make guys miss or brush them aside, not unlike sweetness.
odd you dont mention LITTLE who lead his league when he retired and played on a woeful offensive team and always faced 11 in the box!

[NightTerror218]

I would have to say Sander. He was one of the best ever IMO and was on crappy Lions team. He was consistent and rarely injured. He retired in his prime too, which sucked. They both broke 2000 yard mark but Sanders was over 1,000 yard every season and had almost 3 2000 yard seasons or so.

[BroncoJoe]

I am WAY to biased to have a legit discussion about this.

[Magnificent Seven]

you never saw jim brown play.

I saw some Jim Brown's clips. Jim Brown is rivaled closely by Walter Payton. However, Walter Payton got my heart. I marveled at how that #34 in the dark jersey and white pants could run, catch, block and even throw at times.

[Chef Zambini]

jim brown footage/ check out the field conditions brown ran in! not the kind of tracks that guys like WP and TD and ES enjoyed, not the easy stop and start astro-turf that BS played on ! not the indoor perfect condition stadiums that all these pother enjoyed during their casreers ! JIM BROWN didnt pass the ball because that would require depending on somebody else catching it !
JB was the best football PLAYER ever! not just RB, player !
I think a recent top 100 list by the NFL channel confirms this opinion.

[chazoe60]

jim brown footage/ check out the field conditions brown ran in! not the kind of tracks that guys like WP and TD and ES enjoyed, not the easy stop and start astro-turf that BS played on ! not the indoor perfect condition stadiums that all these pother enjoyed during their casreers ! JIM BROWN didnt pass the ball because that would require depending on somebody else catching it !
JB was the best football PLAYER ever! not just RB, player !
I think a recent top 100 list by the NFL channel confirms this opinion.

How can an opinion be confirmed? It's an opinion Zam. Not one I necessarily disagree with but don't act as though it's fact. Think of the defenders TD and BS played against in comparison. Yes TD and BS played on faster tracks but so did the defenders tracking them down.

[Poet]

Jim Brown was a hoss, and he's my pick as the best ever, but there are things to dissect about his career. For starters, he's an all-time great athlete playing a sport in it's infancy against significantly worse athletes as his peer. Nowadays guys are great athletes against...other great athletes.

[Dzone]

Jim Brown was a hoss, and he's my pick as the best ever, but there are things to dissect about his career. For starters, he's an all-time great athlete playing a sport in it's infancy against significantly worse athletes as his peer. Nowadays guys are great athletes against...other great athletes.
Yep,thats true. Jim Brown dominated against a bunch of slow fat white guys. IN todays NFL he would be Cedric Benson at bestLOL

[MOtorboat]

Jim Brown was a hoss, and he's my pick as the best ever, but there are things to dissect about his career. For starters, he's an all-time great athlete playing a sport in it's infancy against significantly worse athletes as his peer. Nowadays guys are great athletes against...other great athletes.


Yep,thats true. Jim Brown dominated against a bunch of slow fat white guys. IN todays NFL he would be Cedric Benson at bestLOL

I think there's some credence to the idea that early NFL players did not play against like athletes, as those do today. However, I think great athletes are trained better, know more about their bodies and have better athletic opportunities (money and access) than they did 60 years ago, so I think it somewhat levels out.

[Poet]

Yep,thats true. Jim Brown dominated against a bunch of slow fat white guys. IN todays NFL he would be Cedric Benson at bestLOL

I reject this troll.

[Simple Jaded]

... did somebody metion bias?
ask barry sanders' dad who the best running back of all time was and he will tell you without question it was jim brown !
And Barry Sanders' dad is a dick.......

[Chef Zambini]

And Barry Sanders' dad is a dick.......richard sanders?

[Chef Zambini]

yeh, jim brown played against clowns like dick butkis and deakon jones.

[Dzone]

Yep, its all relative ....Just jokin.In todays NFL, Jim Brown would still be dominant. He was a man among boys in his day, now he would probably be a stronger and faster athlete with todays training methods.

Reminds me of a bar argument I overheard many years ago. Someone told a hardcore Yankee fan that Babe Ruth wouldnt be worth a crap today because he was too fat. The Yankee fan went completely ballistic :pound:

[Ravage!!!]

Barry was amazing at making the team miss, and could take any play to the house. He had the speed to take it to the house from anywhere on the field. However, the Lions had to bring in another back for goal line carries. Barry usually led the league in negative carries, but was an amazing, ankle breaking, RB that had a long career.

I believe Davis to have all the tools as well. He wouldn't make the move like Sanders did (no one could)..but he could move around you, by you, as well as over you. They didn't replace Davis for goalline carries. Terrell could take any carry to the house, from anywhere on the field. He had the break away speed to take it the distance, as well as have the shiftiness to spin it past you. Davis WOULD have been knowns as one of the greatest to play the game had he not had the unfortunate luck of tearing a knee. He had an amazing balance of speed and power.

[MasterShake]

I voted Davis because I am a blind homer, but after some thought I can't help but think of what a beast Sanders would have been behind our O-Line with that fluid zone blocking scheme. Holy crap that would have been sweet!

[Ravage!!!]

I voted Davis because I am a blind homer, but after some thought I can't help but think of what a beast Sanders would have been behind our O-Line with that fluid zone blocking scheme. Holy crap that would have been sweet!

maybe. I feel that takes away from what Davis was, and what he accomplished. I personally do not believe that Davis was a "product of the system"...as he was the best runner in the NFL during that time.

[AlWilsonizKING]

Not sure if it's been posted on here already, but who cares it's here again and worth the view. I'm sure that Sanders has a video or two also, but someone else can post those......Schlereth says it best......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTza50UcbGo


PEACE!!!

[MasterShake]

maybe. I feel that takes away from what Davis was, and what he accomplished. I personally do not believe that Davis was a "product of the system"...as he was the best runner in the NFL during that time.

Its hard to say, especially after we had that string of good running backs in the system following him. What made Davis great though is that while other backs succeded under Shannahan, Davis took it to another level. Lets put it this way, a good running back could have got 1600 yards with that line but Davis got 2000. Thats a special player and you can't take that away from him.

[Softskull]

maybe. I feel that takes away from what Davis was, and what he accomplished. I personally do not believe that Davis was a "product of the system"...as he was the best runner in the NFL during that time.

I dont think that any of this steals from the Davis thunder. He was a great RB for his day, but every generation throws up something that you write songs about. Jim Brown and Barry Sanders were two of those type of runners.

[Poet]

The same system made Rueben Droughns, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell and a bunch of other mediocre guys look good. Then again, Clinton Portis, who was a stud came in and did great. Terrell Davis was a great back. I always hated that people penalize players for being on good teams. It's the same reason why Emmitt Smith is vastly underrated, people hate the Cowboys and it's easier to just say it was all his line. Heaven forbid we realize that Smith broke a ton of tackles and did his part to make his line look great as well.

You hit a certain level and you're just great. There's no 'conditions' or 'variables' that can take that away. We can tell if a guy is great or not just by watching him play after enough time. Davis' time played showed that he was great. Was he an all-time great? I'm not sure. Is it fair for him to be in the hall with such a short career? I'm not sure. Was the team he played on stacked? Oh yeah. Was his quarterback an all-time great? Yeah. Did he have a Hall of Fame coach? Yeah. Did he pull his weight? Yes.

The thing with Super Bowl teams is that their Super Bowl teams. Peyton Manning could have won a SB with the Broncos. Elway could have won a SB with Manning's team. I truly believe that. Emmitt Smith would have won two SB's with the Broncos as their back. Davis was a SB winning RB and could have done the same on the Cowboys.

The yards are the yards. While Sanders was a flawed running back in practice, which is to the chagrin to his supporters and is true, he ran for the yards that he ran for. I know what he did and I speculate what Davis could have done.

[Ziggy]

If you want to throw longevity out of the equation, then Bo Jackson has to be in the conversation. He was the greatest combination of power and speed ever to put on a uniform. He was once clocked in the 40 at 4.12 at 227 pounds, and didn't look any slower with the pads on. He could run you over or run around you. I'm surprised that no one has brought his name up, although a lot of the younger on folks on here never saw him play. Imagine what he could have done if football wasn't just a hobby to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs-1hPkLKeQ

[Canmore]

If you want to throw longevity out of the equation, then Bo Jackson has to be in the conversation. He was the greatest combination of power and speed ever to put on a uniform. He was once clocked in the 40 at 4.12 at 227 pounds, and didn't look any slower with the pads on. He could run you over or run around you. I'm surprised that no one has brought his name up, although a lot of the younger on folks on here never saw him play.

I would agree with you. Jackson may have been the ultimate in speed and power. His career was so short and he played baseball full time and did football part time. More so than Davis, Jackson's career is a what could of been.

[chazoe60]

If you want to throw longevity out of the equation, then Bo Jackson has to be in the conversation. He was the greatest combination of power and speed ever to put on a uniform. He was once clocked in the 40 at 4.12 at 227 pounds, and didn't look any slower with the pads on. He could run you over or run around you. I'm surprised that no one has brought his name up, although a lot of the younger on folks on here never saw him play. Imagine what he could have done if football wasn't just a hobby to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs-1hPkLKeQ

Good point. Bo was a complete and total badass. If not for the injury I wonder if he could have been a HOFer in two different sports. Bo is the only person that IMHO rivals Jim Thorpe as the greatest Athlete of all time.

[Fullback32]

Screw it....I'm going with Earl Campbell. You gotta love a running back who mows down the first set of defenders then keeps running north-south with fours guys holding onto him.

TD or Barry? Actually, of all the running backs mentioned, I take any of them. You couldn't go wrong with any of those names. You can add the original TD, Tony Dorsett, to that list as well.

[Simple Jaded]

It's a F'n crime what happened to Bo Jackson, we were robbed. Meanwhile, DB's like Lawrence Phillips waste their talent while relatively healthy.......

[CrazyHorse]

Seeing as how Sanders never came out of the game in any of the situations you listed, I think he was pretty good in those situations. As for receiving, lets take the top 2 guys on your list (modern era, I don't put Jim Brown in there), Sanders' lowest receiving total (catches) in a year was 24, his highest 48. Payton's lowest was 15 and highest was 53. Smith's lowest was 11 and highest was 62 so the numbers are comparable.

I'm not even going to try to compare stats between Tomlinson and Faulk in receiving with any of the other guys because they played in the "golden age" of passing stats and both played with much better QBs, than Sanders ever did. Once again, the point lots of guys miss out on when discussing Sanders is: "who else?".

Smith had Aikman, Irvin, Novacek, Johnston, and the biggest/baddest O-line in the league. Payton had a very good O-line but not much else (hence why he's #2 on my all time list). Faulk had Manning/Warner, Bruce/Holt, and Dick Vermeil (like him or not, he was great at getting Marshall the ball in space), Thomlinson had Brees/Rivers, Gates, and Lorenzo Neal lead blocking for him.

Who did Sanders have, ever, to help him out / take some of the pressure off of him?

That's not entirely true. Although his teams weren't as stacked as the ones you mentioned he did play with some good players. He was able to run behind Pro Bowlers Lomas Thomas and Kevin Glover for part of his career. Herman Moore was also a Pro Bowl caliber receiver. If I remember correctly Barry would get pulled in goal line and short yardage situations for Derrick Moore and Eric Lynch. It may have been to keep him fresh but it could also be due to his knack for negative yardage in crucial situations.

[CrazyHorse]

The worst part about Bo Jackson is that he played for the Raiders even though the Buccaneers drafted him earlier. I think it's dumb how that works.

[Nomad]

Screw it....I'm going with Earl Campbell. You gotta love a running back who mows down the first set of defenders then keeps running north-south with fours guys holding onto him.

TD or Barry? Actually, of all the running backs mentioned, I take any of them. You couldn't go wrong with any of those names. You can add the original TD, Tony Dorsett, to that list as well.

Earl Campbell was my dad's favorite when I was a kid. I'd watch a game with him sometimes. The man was a bruiser.

I said Sanders was the better back and not by much, though I wouldn't trade for Sanders over TD.

[Dzone]

Curtis Martin in and Terrell Davis out is a travesty. Mike Lombardi is on 104.3 discussing this injustice. Saying the HOF selection criteria is messed up. He says TD should be in the hall.

[Ravage!!!]

I said Sanders was the better back and not by much, though I wouldn't trade for Sanders over TD.

Exactly right. If we had Davis, I wouldn't trade Davis to get Sanders. I also wouldn't trade Sanders to get Davis.

[BroncoStud]

Barry Sanders is the greatest RB of all-time. There is no debate here. As good as TD was, we're talking Barry Sanders here...

Over Jim Brown, Walter Peyton, Emmitt Smith, or even Ladanian Tomlinson or Marshall Faulk? Pure runner I could agree with, but RB no way. What about as a pass blocker, 3rd down, goal line, short yardage, and as a receiver? Is Barry better at all these than the guys I've listed?

Barry was an all-around RB. He was in the game for all situations and he played at an exceptional level, surrounded by minimal talent, for most of his career. When the most prolific passer you played with in any season is arguably Scott Mitchell, yet you still break 10,000 yards rushing, you are a complete bad-ass.

Emmitt Smith..? Please... Sayers? Very good but career cut short. Walter Payton, great RB, similar style to Sanders, actually Payton was his inspiration as a RB, Jim Brown, dominant RB for his era, hard to make an argument against his case. I just think if you put Barry on those Browns teams he is still a dominant RB, if you put Brown on those Lions teams, he is a good but not great RB.

[MOtorboat]

I'm intrigued by this trading thing. If you traded them straight up, who's getting the extra fourth-round pick back. I'm guessing its the Lions.

[Chef Zambini]

can you post sanders career receptions?
LT threw 8 TD passes in his career, how many did BS throw.

I dont think you actually saw JB play.

Those who did say he is the greatests football player of all time!
Dick Schaap, who loved and adored the GB packers and barry sanders, said without
question that JB was the greatest football player of all time and maybe the greatest athlete to walk the earth.
...But you probably have to google dick schaap

sanders was enerttaining, and if he was on a better team he definatly would have been more productive. thanks for mentioning scott mitchell, can you name a SINGLE player that JB played with?
thats what I thought, dont hurt yourself googling a response.

[Chef Zambini]

chicago tribune:
sanders #17
jim brown #2

[Ravage!!!]

I'm intrigued by this trading thing. If you traded them straight up, who's getting the extra fourth-round pick back. I'm guessing its the Lions.

Because of where they were drafted?

[Ravage!!!]

chicago tribune:
sanders #17
jim brown #2

I'm still confused as to why you are trying to use some newspaper writer's opinion as some kind of proof?? :confused:

[shank]

jim jankelman said that zam likes tossed salad, but you'd have to google tossed salad.

[G_Money]

maybe. I feel that takes away from what Davis was, and what he accomplished. I personally do not believe that Davis was a "product of the system"...as he was the best runner in the NFL during that time.

I'm not a fan of the "system back" designation for great RBs. It works fine for "eh" talented guys who outperform, but Davis was a great RB period. That said, TD played in the perfect system for him with one of the greatest collections of talent around. Barry Sanders never did either of those things. The good blockers he ran behind in his career rarely had their times overlap. Barry led the league in negative plays because he would take the handoff with a defender in his grill too many times. Sanders thought he could do anything on a football field, and often he was right. Occasionally he was wrong. But if the blocking had been better he wouldn't have had to do too many heat checks on his miracles.

In the pantheon of great backs, I consider Payton and Sanders superior to Emmitt and TD. I'm holding it against Smith and Davis that they were in absolutely perfect, completely talent-loaded situations with superior schemes and coaching. Davis would have had a Smith-like career if he'd stayed healthy and in this system (which he would have - he was given a huge contract extension and was never leaving) so they're on the same tier to me. Walter Payton and Barry Sanders didn't have the support those guys had for most of their careers. Maybe it's unfair to TD, but it's not that Sanders was flashier while Terrell's incredible balance, vision strength and acceleration are easier to under-rate.

I don't feel like I'm under-rating TD. I know exactly what he meant to those Broncos teams. I just feel like placing Sanders in the greatest rushing scheme in the league, with the most talent in the league and one of the best passing attacks in the league would lead to a leap forward in even his great performances. TD would not have run for 2000 yards in Detroit - he could not have done what Barry did on that team. IMO, Barry could have done what TD did here.

And to me that makes Barry better.

~G

[MOtorboat]

Because of where they were drafted?

No.

Just, both Age 26, and the two teams enter into a trade, player for player. I think Denver would have to give up an extra fourth in the trade for value.

Just my opinion of course, but it puts kind of a tangible thing on the difference in value that I see.

[Chef Zambini]

I'm still confused as to why you are trying to use some newspaper writer's opinion as some kind of proof?? :confused:that was a panel, not a single writer. every poll from ANY legitimate source, NFL.com ESPN, football writers of america, all list JB ahead of any other back !
he is usually #1 or #2 behind jerry rice!
Bs often does not even make the top ten ! show me somewhere other than your uncle joes list where BS is rated ahead of JB.

[Chef Zambini]

I'm not a fan of the "system back" designation for great RBs. It works fine for "eh" talented guys who outperform, but Davis was a great RB period. That said, TD played in the perfect system for him with one of the greatest collections of talent around. Barry Sanders never did either of those things. The good blockers he ran behind in his career rarely had their times overlap. Barry led the league in negative plays because he would take the handoff with a defender in his grill too many times. Sanders thought he could do anything on a football field, and often he was right. Occasionally he was wrong. But if the blocking had been better he wouldn't have had to do too many heat checks on his miracles.

In the pantheon of great backs, I consider Payton and Sanders superior to Emmitt and TD. I'm holding it against Smith and Davis that they were in absolutely perfect, completely talent-loaded situations with superior schemes and coaching. Davis would have had a Smith-like career if he'd stayed healthy and in this system (which he would have - he was given a huge contract extension and was never leaving) so they're on the same tier to me. Walter Payton and Barry Sanders didn't have the support those guys had for most of their careers. Maybe it's unfair to TD, but it's not that Sanders was flashier while Terrell's incredible balance, vision strength and acceleration are easier to under-rate.

I don't feel like I'm under-rating TD. I know exactly what he meant to those Broncos teams. I just feel like placing Sanders in the greatest rushing scheme in the league, with the most talent in the league and one of the best passing attacks in the league would lead to a leap forward in even his great performances. TD would not have run for 2000 yards in Detroit - he could not have done what Barry did on that team. IMO, Barry could have done what TD did here.

And to me that makes Barry better.

~G... and jim brown?

[Ravage!!!]

that was a panel, not a single writer. every poll from ANY legitimate source, NFL.com ESPN, football writers of america, all list JB ahead of any other back !
he is usually #1 or #2 behind jerry rice!
Bs often does not even make the top ten ! show me somewhere other than your uncle joes list where BS is rated ahead of JB.

You really have absolutely NOOOO idea what the difference between an opinion and a fact is, do you?

[arapaho2]

having watched sanders so many games ...it is without a doubt sanders, yes sanders had alot of negetive yardage...THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE DEFENSE KNOWS YOUR THE ONLY THREAT THEY HAVE and they crash the line because your piss poor line cant hold them, had sanders been on a real offensive team with a probowl qb and receivers takeing the pressure of the LOS....i have no dobt he woulda have smashed every record

TD was ours..will always be ours and deserves the hall


now on to another thought...jim brown although gifted athleticaly, was he just a man before his time, a freak of nature?....and would he be as dominate in todays game as he was then.
remember brown was 6'2" 232 pounds...which was as big as alot of defensive linemen of the day and bigger than most linebackers....today as the size of the modern players grows, so does the speed, strength...would he outpower them, outrace them as he did to defenders in his time?.....im sure brown would still be one of the greatest if he played today

[Ravage!!!]

But all great athletes are generally a "men amongst boys"..or "ahead of their time." Thats what makes them special. Most of the great athletes of the past wouldn't be "great" today with their past talent. However, to take that same great athlete and you give him the benefits of the training today, and you don't know. I don't think you can take away from an athlete of today and say that they wouldn't be dominant in today's game and take aawy from them.

Today's athletes won't look the same to generations in the future. They'll insist that Manning wasn't that good. They'll tell us that the RBs in today's league were "ahead of their time" and they couldn't compete in their game. Doesn't matter. They played in the time that they did, and they dominated.

[Chef Zambini]

You really have absolutely NOOOO idea what the difference between an opinion and a fact is, do you?Mo's opinion sucks, thats a fact.

[Dzone]

Tebow would have been a great running back.

[BobbyJ]

Well I saw them both play live and really liked both players. TD was very competitive with Barry, meaning after every game he would get on his computer and see what Barry did. Barry on the other hand could care less.
TD was great in the Broncos system, sort of like a super Emmit Smith (Better than Smith) But I'll just quote what TD said when asked to be compared to Sanders. TD "Please please compare me to my peers not Barry"

All the backs then when interviewed said we are here and held hand out at neck level symbolizing a line/bar. Then they point to the sky and say "Barry is up there" All the backs back then worshiped sanders, as if he were on another Level. They knew what he had to deal with and somehow he still got the job done.

TD was great and I love TD and the Broncos but Barry was on another level. My vote goes with little hesitation to Barry Sanders.

[Dzone]

I will take the greatest playoff running back in history over any other back. Period. TD was great when it counted the most.

[Canmore]

I will take the greatest playoff running back in history over any other back. Period. TD was great when it counted the most.

That is pretty much my thinking.

[Northman]

Who do you think was the better overall running back and more importantly why?

Both were great backs but much like Elway early in his career Sanders did more with less. The lines that Sanders played behind were not very good and often times he had to make plays on his own which sometimes turned into incredible runs. Even though if i had to pick a back to start a team with i would take Davis simply because he was just the type of player i really loved but there is also a hell of a lot of bias to come with it. Sanders was just simply amazing and its a shame that he was never able to be on a team that could at the very least give him a shot at a championship.

[BobbyJ]

There are a ton of backs in which you took a small window of their short careers you could say he was the best if only etc etc etc.

TD just not durable. Sanders too quick to catch. 2000+ yards in his 9th season. Hmm most backs are gone before then. Sanders left on own terms others are carted off or cut before they want to go. TD had his small window and did the most with it.

Football is a team game so hard to even bring playoffs etc in to the equation. May as well find out who the water boy is for the Patriots and say he was the best because they have won so many playoff games. Was not Tom Brady it was the water boy.

[SR]

How was TD not durable?

[BroncoJoe]

Who bumps a thread from 2012?

[BroncoJoe]

One last comment, and I can't verify because it references the NFL but is on Wikipedia:


Sanders also holds the NFL record for the most carries for negative yardage. According to the NFL, Sanders is the all-time leader in rushing yards lost by a running back with 1,114

I'm not going to dispariage Sanders - he was great. But so was Davis.

Average yards per season:

Davis (before injury): 1,603 4 years
Sanders (career): 1,567 10 years

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Didn't Sanders average over 5.0 ypc for his career? That's insane considering the lack of a passing attack.

[tripp]

Terrell Davis all day, every day.

[BroncoJoe]

Didn't Sanders average over 5.0 ypc for his career? That's insane considering the lack of a passing attack.

He did - exactly 5.0 which IS amazing. Davis was 4.7.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Who bumps a thread from 2012?

Barry Sanders brother?

[silkamilkamonico]

Barry Sanders without question for myself. Dude was an absolute stud regardless of the QB he played with.

[NightTerror218]

I will take the greatest playoff running back in history over any other back. Period. TD was great when it counted the most.

TD had Elway and Sanders had...nobody.

Sanders was the greatest RB IMO and retired early.

[slim]

TD....all day every day

[gregbroncs]

TD had Elway and Sanders had...nobody.

Sanders was the greatest RB IMO and retired early.I look at it this way....If Barry had played on those Broncos teams could he have ran for more yards than Davis? My answer is he may have broke 2500 yards that season Terrell had his all time high. Sanders was something spectacular to watch and played with one of the worst O-lines of any of the rushing leaders ever did.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

IMO, Barry Sanders is the best open field runner the NFL has ever seen.

[BroncoNut]

I'm gonna have to go with Barry,.. He worked with less and was still made the position happen. Just a very unique and special skillset, there will never be another one.

[weazel]

TD had Elway and Sanders had...nobody.

Sanders was the greatest RB IMO and retired early.

My thoughts as well.

[BroncoJoe]

I look at it this way....If Barry had played on those Broncos teams could he have ran for more yards than Davis? My answer is he may have broke 2500 yards that season Terrell had his all time high. Sanders was something spectacular to watch and played with one of the worst O-lines of any of the rushing leaders ever did.

I just can't be objective. TD is probably my 2nd favorite Broncos player after Elway.

But - I have to agree with greg.

[Ravage!!!]

Well.. it seems that we are giving credit to Sanders for not having an OL and taking away from Davis because he did. Sanders rushed for the most negative yard runs in history. Would Davis have succeeded on other teams other than the Broncos? Absolutely he would have. ANYONE that says Davis was purely a product of Shanahan's system and/or the OL didn't really watch him run. He was an absolutely beast. He was fast, powerful, AND elusive. Just watch some of those open field spins and then out race the DBs.

That's something Sanders lacked. He would get close to the goal line, and they would replace him because Sanders couldn't pound it in. We didn't ahve to do that with Davis. Davis absolutely could/would outrun the DBs down the sidelines, somthing Sanders didn't have as well. Sanders was the absolute greatest at "close quarters combat." Meaning, if you were close and he was juking, man, you couldn't touch that guy. But he wouldnt/couldn't over power you, and he couldn't out "speed" you....he would out-quick you.

So they are different in a lot of ways. Barry Sanders was one of the all-time greatest RBs I've ever seen. I just think that people seem to take away from Davis too much because of the system he was in (and obviously the shortened career). Just as we are speculating that Sanders would have succeeded in other places, I believes it to be obvious that TD would have succeeded no matter where he might have played.

[BroncoJoe]

Well.. it seems that we are giving credit to Sanders for not having an OL and taking away from Davis because he did. Sanders rushed for the most negative yard runs in history. Would Davis have succeeded on other teams other than the Broncos? Absolutely he would have. ANYONE that says Davis was purely a product of Shanahan's system and/or the OL didn't really watch him run. He was an absolutely beast. He was fast, powerful, AND elusive. Just watch some of those open field spins and then out race the DBs.

That's something Sanders lacked. He would get close to the goal line, and they would replace him because Sanders couldn't pound it in. We didn't ahve to do that with Davis. Davis absolutely could/would outrun the DBs down the sidelines, somthing Sanders didn't have as well. Sanders was the absolute greatest at "close quarters combat." Meaning, if you were close and he was juking, man, you couldn't touch that guy. But he wouldnt/couldn't over power you, and he couldn't out "speed" you....he would out-quick you.

So they are different in a lot of ways. Barry Sanders was one of the all-time greatest RBs I've ever seen. I just think that people seem to take away from Davis too much because of the system he was in (and obviously the shortened career). Just as we are speculating that Sanders would have succeeded in other places, I believes it to be obvious that TD would have succeeded no matter where he might have played.

OK - you convinced me.

TD it is!!!

[weazel]

I don't think people are taking away from Davis at all... watching them both, I think Barry is the best ever. I would put Walter Payton in that conversation as well.

[silkamilkamonico]

Unfortunately we didn't get a chance to see TD really away from Elway. He played about 3-4 games the following season with Griese, healthy, and was really a below average RB in those 4 games, with basically the same everything else around him other than Elway. But that probably isn't enough to really get a read on the situation.

[weazel]

I don't think people are taking away from Davis at all... watching them both, I think Barry is the best ever. I would put Walter Payton in that conversation as well.

I love Davis and he is my second favorite Broncos player ever but I will go one further... talk to people who aren't Broncos fans and Davis isn't even mentioned.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I love Davis and he is my second favorite Broncos player ever but I will go one further... talk to people who aren't Broncos fans and Davis isn't even mentioned.

I think I heard a glass drop when the room went silent, just now.

[EastCoastBronco]

Sammy Winder...

I love that part in the "Drive" section of my History of The Denver Broncos DVD where Bowlen is on the sidelines in that god awful fur coat yelling "C'mon Sammy Baby!"

Oh, sorry.
Got off track.
As much as I love Terrell, there was nobody even comparable to Barry in his prime.

[Yashahla17]

Barry sanders.

Really dont know why davis isn't in the HOF though. And i agree with the poster on davis over curtis martin.

[Yashahla17]

I love Davis and he is my second favorite Broncos player ever but I will go one further... talk to people who aren't Broncos fans and Davis isn't even mentioned.

Yeah but you find that with a lot of great broncos now days, nobody mentions rod smith either. Still great players though. Hofers for sure.

[Northman]

Well.. it seems that we are giving credit to Sanders for not having an OL and taking away from Davis because he did. Sanders rushed for the most negative yard runs in history. Would Davis have succeeded on other teams other than the Broncos? Absolutely he would have. ANYONE that says Davis was purely a product of Shanahan's system and/or the OL didn't really watch him run. He was an absolutely beast. He was fast, powerful, AND elusive. Just watch some of those open field spins and then out race the DBs.

That's something Sanders lacked. He would get close to the goal line, and they would replace him because Sanders couldn't pound it in. We didn't ahve to do that with Davis. Davis absolutely could/would outrun the DBs down the sidelines, somthing Sanders didn't have as well. Sanders was the absolute greatest at "close quarters combat." Meaning, if you were close and he was juking, man, you couldn't touch that guy. But he wouldnt/couldn't over power you, and he couldn't out "speed" you....he would out-quick you.

So they are different in a lot of ways. Barry Sanders was one of the all-time greatest RBs I've ever seen. I just think that people seem to take away from Davis too much because of the system he was in (and obviously the shortened career). Just as we are speculating that Sanders would have succeeded in other places, I believes it to be obvious that TD would have succeeded no matter where he might have played.

Hard to say honestly in terms of how TD would of done elsewhere or with a bad line. I really couldnt imagine TD doing the things that Barry did when things broke down. I love TD and like Joe im really strong with my bias as he is up there with Elway and Atwater as my favorite Broncos. But again, its hard to say how TD would of done because the Oline and surrounding talent was just so much better than what Barry had. Either way, i like them both as backs and would take either one in a heartbeat.

[Ravage!!!]

Hard to say honestly in terms of how TD would of done elsewhere or with a bad line. I really couldnt imagine TD doing the things that Barry did when things broke down. I love TD and like Joe im really strong with my bias as he is up there with Elway and Atwater as my favorite Broncos. But again, its hard to say how TD would of done because the Oline and surrounding talent was just so much better than what Barry had. Either way, i like them both as backs and would take either one in a heartbeat.

I know what you mean, and agree. I use the same arguments when talking QBs. I mean, how would Montana have done in Denver during the 90s instead of San Fran? How would Jerry Rice have been had he not had 2 HoF QBs throwing him the ball? How would it had been different had Manning had Belicheck instead of Brady? Coaches and teams absolutely have a hand in every HoF player, no doubt about it.

[gregbroncs]

I don't think people are taking away from Davis at all... watching them both, I think Barry is the best ever. I would put Walter Payton in that conversation as well.My order is Barry, Sweetness, TD. TD is my second favorite Bronco ever, closely followed by Atwater. But I just don't believe he was as good as Barry or Walter Payton. Barry lost yards because he couldn't get out of the backfield without guys hanging all over him. I believe TD would succeed anywhere but not at the level I think Barry would.

[gregbroncs]

Sammy Winder...

I love that part in the "Drive" section of my History of The Denver Broncos DVD where Bowlen is on the sidelines in that god awful fur coat yelling "C'mon Sammy Baby!"

Oh, sorry.
Got off track.
As much as I love Terrell, there was nobody even comparable to Barry in his prime.I'd say Walter Payton was comparable in talent and ability level though they were not that similar in style.

[7DnBrnc53]

I know what you mean, and agree. I use the same arguments when talking QBs. I mean, how would Montana have done in Denver during the 90s instead of San Fran? How would Jerry Rice have been had he not had 2 HoF QBs throwing him the ball? How would it had been different had Manning had Belicheck instead of Brady? Coaches and teams absolutely have a hand in every HoF player, no doubt about it.

Rice wouldn't have been considered a great player, and he wouldn't have had the numbers he had on other teams. He benefited from an offense that featured a lot of slant patterns, and they also used pick plays from time to time (Jerry Glanville said that SF's base pick play was illegal). Also, because he was a 49er, the media seemed to worship him and tout his work ethic on a continual basis (like there weren't other players that worked hard).

[Broncoknight30]

I think it all depends. If we are talking about running in a stretch run west coast system? Personally, I would actually take TD. TD had the instinct to NOT dance in the back field. He would consistently make the right cut and was committed to it. He saw and understood the value in gaining 4 yards or 5 yards. I believe in 1998 he was NOT tackled behind the LOS once. Not once.

Now, we can say that ALL because of the OL. Remember, that OL had two different starters than the 1997 team. Gary Zimmerman was gone. The league also knew who they were keying on. BTW, on a side note TD missed 8 quarters that year just due to taking him out cause the game was in hand. That is two games.

Anyway, that is not a small thing in regards to consistently hitting the right hole.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

BTW, notice how important the keeper play action is with Elway for that backside pursuit to hesitate enough for those cutback lanes to open up. Anyway, you will see TD constantly making the right cuts. He makes it look easy, but it is not all that easy.


TD fit into that system the way Montana fit into the west coast system. Almost seemed tailor made for what they do best.

[Simple Jaded]

If Barry Sanders doesn't fit your system then the problem is your system.

[CrazyHorse]

If Barry Sanders doesn't fit your system then the problem is your system.

Goal line situations?

Walter Payton had less help than Barry Sanders who had Herman Moore at WR and some decent linemen in Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover.

[Simple Jaded]

Goal line situations?

Walter Payton had less help than Barry Sanders who had Herman Moore at WR and some decent linemen in Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover.

I'm referring to that dude that said he'd take TD because Sanders didn't have the instincts for the Broncos system.

[CrazyHorse]

I'm referring to that dude that said he'd take TD because Sanders didn't have the instincts for the Broncos system.

He would be fine. Sanders seems like he's always looking for the big play but with ZBS the holes would be there and he'd be able to cut through them. He wouldn't be dancing in the backfield.