PDA

View Full Version : Is the zone-blocking scheme out the door?



ChairmanBron
07-24-2009, 04:40 PM
So the Broncos signed Iowa's 6-feet-5 and 308 pounds offensive guard Seth Olsen. A anti-prototypical ZBS lineman.

So does this mean the ZBS is going to be phased out in the near future?

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12903799?source=rss




.

Lonestar
07-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Iowa's Olsen latest draftee to sign a deal
The Denver Post
Posted: 07/24/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT


With the signing of offensive guard Seth Olsen, the Broncos may be ushering in a new brand of offensive linemen.

Unlike the prototype Broncos blockers in years past, Olsen is large — 6-feet-5 and 308 pounds. He also doesn't seem to have the type of quickness and agility the Broncos used to covet for their zone-blocking scheme.

Instead, Olsen, from the University of Iowa, is considered stout at the point of attack, a formidable pass protector who figures to be well-suited for the shotgun- oriented offense favored by coach Josh McDaniels.

Olsen also has a little more walking-around money after he signed a four-year, $2.16 million deal Thursday that included a $414,120 signing bonus.

Olsen followed tight end Richard Quinn, a second- round selection, and receiver Kenny McKinley, a fifth- round choice, who signed four-year contracts Wednesday. Quinn, a 255-pound "blocking" tight end from North Carolina, received a $930,000 signing bonus plus a $310,000 injury-protection guarantee.

For that kind of money, the Broncos will expect Quinn to produce in his rookie season.

"Especially in the running game, I feel like I can contribute in the two-tight-end sets," Quinn said. "I feel like I can get the job done in the passing game as well."

McKinley's deal included a $200,200 signing bonus.

"Kenny will be a nice complement to the receivers they already have there in Denver," said Andrew Bondarowicz, McKinley's agent. "He is also an exceptional returner, and I think you'll see him contribute right away in both the kickoff and punt return game."

Orton, Simms due early.

The Broncos will bring in their kids, their hobbled and their veteran quarterbacks Monday.

Kyle Orton and Chris Simms, the Broncos' top two quarterbacks, will join the rookies and injured veteran players when preliminary training camp opens at the team's Dove Valley headquarters.

That group will conduct light, afternoon workouts Monday through Wednesday before the first full-squad walk-through practice Thursday afternoon. The team will invite the public to witness full-squad, two-a-day workout sessions beginning Friday.

Footnotes.

To help clear roster space for their signed draft picks, the Broncos waived rookie receiver David Grimes. . . . The Broncos' six remaining unsigned draft picks are running back Knowshon Moreno (No. 12 selection), defensive end/linebacker Robert Ayers (No. 18), defensive backs Alphonso Smith (No. 37), Darcel McBath (No. 48) and David Bruton (No. 114) and quarterback Tom Brandstater (No. 174).

Mike Klis,


****************

Josh commented that he wanted the team to get, bigger, quicker, smarter and meaner when he came to town..

I think this is a start in that direction..

But he also said he liked the ZBS and was tinkering with it in NE before he came here..

So I'd guess we are going to see a combination of both and frankly if the DL does not have a clue on what to expect perhaps that would be good also..

dogfish
07-24-2009, 06:16 PM
i wouldn't say that one 4th round pick exactly changes the future of the entire line when it's built around ZBS linemen, although kuper and clady are probably suited to any OL scheme. . . . then again, mcdaniels has already proven that he's smart enough to fix things that aren't broken, so who knows?

dogfish
07-24-2009, 06:19 PM
Josh commented that he wanted the team to get, bigger, quicker, smarter and meaner when he came to town..

I think this is a start in that direction..




he's definitely a little bigger than our norm, and time will tell whether he's smarter or meaner-- but quicker he most certainly is not. . . he ran a 5.23 40 at the combine, and some scouting reports describe him as "lumbering". . . .

Lonestar
07-24-2009, 06:30 PM
he's definitely a little bigger than our norm, and time will tell whether he's smarter or meaner-- but quicker he most certainly is not. . . he ran a 5.23 40 at the combine, and some scouting reports describe him as "lumbering". . . .


well speed can be worked on and improved..

although he may just be part of a jumbo package on the goal line also.

and might being groomed to replace Hamilton that was often seen on roller skates on game day..;)

dogfish
07-24-2009, 06:51 PM
well speed can be worked on and improved..

although he may just be part of a jumbo package on the goal line also.

and might being groomed to replace Hamilton that was often seen on roller skates on game day..;)


yea, i think hamilton's gone after this year when his contract's up. . . .

WARHORSE
07-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Zone blocking baby.

Its dominating when we do it. To stop would be ignorant........new scheme or not.

We have not only the line to do it, but the BIGGEST line we've ever had doing it in recent years.

These guys are large and athletic, and that is the makings for the continued dominance that took place last year.

Lonestar
07-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Zone blocking baby.

Its dominating when we do it. To stop would be ignorant........new scheme or not.

We have not only the line to do it, but the BIGGEST line we've ever had doing it in recent years.

These guys are large and athletic, and that is the makings for the continued dominance that took place last year.


It is a natural evolution..

mike and Gibbs perfected it and then Gibbs moved on.. and it spread to other teams he worked for ATL, HOU and disciples from those teams are moving to other teams..

Now it is not unique that some teams only see once a year or every 5-6th year.. so Defenses are being built to contain it..

Now it is time to hybrid it with the nasty passing game of the spread to ZBS and pulling guards..

I suspect it will be around but not quite look like it did during the SUPER BOWL years.. we had a big nasty OLINE then with blue chip players..

mike got cheap and it evolved to smaller players because he did not want to spend top draft choices to protect his QB.. and that was alright while Jake was here..

HE not only learned his QB was not all he thought he should be, but also the mini OLINE was doomed during the AFCCG..

he thought getting Lepsis back was all he needed then the light bulb went off and he finally drafted a huge OLT.. He knew he could not longer get away with bargain basement players in the 5-7 round.. Especially with the master gone.. Gibbs...

2Fity@The303
07-24-2009, 09:11 PM
The ZBS is going to stay, IMO. The Patriots started running more of a zone blocking scheme in 2007. McDaniels offense was stellar that year....Check out this article from the Globe circa 2007...

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/05/getting_a_read_on_the_situation/?page=full

Getting a read on the situation
Patriots likely to utilize more zone schemes

By Christopher L. Gasper, Globe Staff | August 5, 2007

They sound like the unsuccessful result of a word jumble, anagrams gone awry -- on, play-side gap, second level. However, they are a rushing Rosetta stone, the key to deciphering one of the most effective run-blocking schemes in football, zone blocking.

As opposed to man blocking, where the play calls for a lineman or tight end to block a particular player, zone blocking forces them to make decisions about whom to block based on the defense's alignment before the snap, and then work in unison to keep defenders blocked.

The Patriots have both zone- and man-blocking plays in their offense, but this season fans could be seeing more zone plays. Running back Laurence Maroney, who is being counted upon to carry the load as a feature back following the departure of Corey Dillon, excelled in a zone-blocking scheme at the University of Minnesota. In his final season with the Golden Gophers, Maroney rushed for a school-record 1,464 yards. To maximize Maroney's potential, New England could zone in more often.

All teams have some form of zone blocking in their playbook, according to Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski, who ran the scheme in the NFL as the Green Bay Packers' offensive coordinator last year and as offensive line coach with the Atlanta Falcons in 2005. The Falcons and Denver Broncos are pure zone-blocking teams.

There are major differences between man and zone blocking, according to former Patriots guard John Hannah. The Hall of Famer, who never played in a zone scheme, said when he played, the blocking scheme gave the running back a choice of one or two holes on a play. In zone blocking, the hole could emerge anywhere along the line, which alters the way linemen block.

"[Zone blocking] is more the back is kind of sliding along and he's looking and he could go anywhere," said Hannah. "You're still getting into [the defender] and still pushing him, but you're not so much trying to drive him as staying into him and cutting him off. It's a whole different approach."

Jagodzinski, who in Atlanta worked with zone-blocking savant Alex Gibbs, the architect of Denver's scheme, said the primary advantage of zone blocking is the ability to create double-teams.

That's where "on, play-side gap, second level" comes in. They are the buzzwords for zone blocking, a three-rule progression for offensive linemen to follow.

"On" refers to the first responsibility of the lineman, which is to see if there is a defender lined up directly in front of him. If there is, this is his first block.

"Play-side gap" -- If there is not a defender lined up directly across the line of scrimmage from the lineman, his instructions are to block in the direction the play is going, double-teaming a defender on his play-side shoulder.

"Second level" -- Sometimes this is called "linebacker" because that's who most often is blocked at this point. While double-teaming a defender at the line of scrimmage, the linemen will keep their eyes on the next level of defenders, usually linebackers. One lineman will break off the double-team and block the linebacker.

"You've got to read the defense," said Patriots left guard Logan Mankins. "You don't know who you're going to end up on. In man, you know who you're going to end up on before the play starts."

The running back doesn't know where he'll end up, either. However, he must choose one hole decisively. Dance in the hole and you'll be ushered to the sideline.

"The back only has one cut," said Jagodzinski. "He's allowed to make one cut and then he has to get vertical and go get 4 yards. But 4 yards turns into 44 yards if you're patient."

The zone scheme slows defenders, forcing them to remain disciplined or risk overpursuit. "It's hard for the defense to read because it gives you so many cutback lanes that the defense really doesn't know where it's going," said Maroney.

The same principle makes zone-blocked plays effective in the use of the play-action pass.

When executed properly, zone blocking is difficult to defend. The Falcons have led the NFL in rushing each of the last three seasons and the Broncos have had six backs (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, and Tatum Bell) rush for more than 1,000 yards since 1998. The redoubtable running play that is the backbone of the Indianapolis Colts' rushing attack, the stretch play, is another example of zone blocking.

So, why don't more teams use it?

While zone blocking is potent, it's also difficult to master. It requires athletic, agile linemen who can secure two blocks in a short period. It also demands communication and coordination among the linemen. If one leaves too early for a double-team or both leave a defender to double-team a linebacker, the running back is likely picking turf out of his facemask.

Fortunately, the Patriots have both athleticism and experience on the line. Outside of right tackle, the team has had the same players in the same spots for three years now -- Matt Light (left tackle), Mankins (left guard), Dan Koppen (center), and Stephen Neal (right guard).

"We've played enough plays together where we know what to expect from each other," said Mankins.

Still, Jagodzinski said the most successful zone-blocking teams are the ones that do it full time.

"You have to make a commitment to it," he said. "It's not something you dabble in a little bit here and there, in my opinion. If you want to be good at it, you have to major in it."

Neal said people shouldn't get caught up in whether the team is man blocking or zone blocking. "The game has evolved so much it's not as easy as just man or zone," said Neal. "Everything has elements of zone and man."

Jagodzinski agreed. He said regardless of the blocking scheme, the desired result is the same.

"It's just a different technique," said Jagodzinski. "Blocking is blocking."

Lonestar
07-24-2009, 09:31 PM
I still think it will evolve into a hybrid of the original we had a decade ago..

SoCalImport
07-25-2009, 10:43 AM
Reading that is forcing me to wax nostalgic.

The vision and explosion through the hole of Terrell Davis was incredible, and the coordination of that championship O-line was a thing of beauty.
The only way you'll see it done quite like that again is with Alex Gibbs. He was a master of not only teaching technique but a motivator. Guys would (imho) listen to him and do what he said because they were scared/in awe of the guy.
Gibbs was one of a kind.

I'm cool with a hybrid though. We have great talent almost all the way across the line. These young guys have all the tools to dominate. If Lichtensteiger can step up to become the stud center we all want then we're set for years

Speaking of which. WHo would've guessed that at this point Hamilton would be something of a weak link?

silkamilkamonico
07-25-2009, 01:38 PM
Denver needs bigger linemen.

I'm sick and tired of watching the smaller quicker linemen get absolutely manhandled in the redzone.

Lonestar
07-25-2009, 01:58 PM
Denver needs bigger linemen.

I'm sick and tired of watching the smaller quicker linemen get absolutely manhandled in the redzone.


we have increased our weight about 20 pounds across the board as of now.. over 2007 OLINE.. I guessing that that is mostly muscle and I suspect as Hamilton and Weigmann go that will be increased another 5-10 pounds on average.. as Kory and all of the other OG s are all over 300 pounds..

I will also say that from what I recall the OLINE as a whole will be encouraged to put on more muscle..


so our puny 292 average (that included Holland at 338) of 2006 will be more like 315 by 2010.. maybe more

Ill also bet that having Quinn on board with graham on the other side will help immensely inside the 5..

sneakers
07-25-2009, 05:08 PM
yea, i think hamilton's gone after this year when his contract's up. . . .

Nooooooooooooo!!!


I will have to have a new adopt a bronco.....I feel as betrayed as Frau now!