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Ziggy
07-30-2012, 05:25 AM
My son and I will be making our annual trip to Broncos training camp today. He's gone with me the last few years, and I've been going since the Dan Reeves/John Elway era. I pulled up my report from last season to review some of the things that had stood out to me.


Knowshon has slimmed down, and seems just a tad quicker to me. When he's in space, he's very effective. He had a couple of nice runs today, but he still has problems running between the tackles. Willis McGahee is miles ahead of Knowshon on vision and acceleration through the hole.- Right on the money.


The starting offensive line looks good. They are working well together and created a lot running lanes for the backs to choose from. Clady is back to form, as is Kuper. Franklin is still struggling with pass protection, but the kid can run block. Beadles looks bigger, better, and much more confident. JD Walton is still the weak link on the Oline.- The Broncos finished #1 rushing the ball, but the Oline had major problems pass blocking again. Walton was horrible, and Beadles was not as improved as I thought he was.


The defensive line looked terrible against the run vs. the first unit offensive line. They have the size and quickness, but aren't working well as a unit. There seems to be a lot of missed assignments and miscommunication. Champ Bailey is still on his game. He shadows his man and leaves no window for throwing the ball.- Dline struggled against the run throughout the season. Champ was still Champ.


I watched Von Miller quite a bit. The man has jets in his cletes, but he has some work to do against the run.- Von was benched early on in the season for being poor against the run, but improved as the season went on. Hall of Fame potential.


Decker is huge, and has a knack for getting open. He also has a knack for dropping the ball- Fairly accurate there. Decker did better with drops as the season went on.


Tebow still looks good for the most part during the drills but reverts back to form when the heat is on. His delivery is still noticebly slow. He won't be effective against teams with tight coverage as it stands- Pretty accurate as well.


Rahim Moore got his butt chewed a few times by the coaches for not being on the field when he should have on special teams. I don't know what the deal was there, but he wasn't having a good day.- Mental mistakes killed the kid all season long, eventually costing him his starting position.


I'll be specifically watching the offensive and defensive lines today, with a special emphasis on Wolfe, Garland, Warren, Beadles, Walton, Siliga, Blake, and big Vick. Since I've seen every QB on the Broncos roster since Elway, I'm excited to compare Manning and Osweiller to the rest of them. I'll also be keeping an eye on the linebacking corps. Given the time, I'll try to get a report written by tonight sometime. Any special requests for observations today?

chazoe60
07-30-2012, 07:03 AM
Have fun. Can't wait to read the report.

Tned
07-30-2012, 08:19 AM
Have fun. Can't wait to read the report.

Ditto.

underrated29
07-30-2012, 09:09 AM
Hey zig, im here too. Whatchya wearing i might find you

iLands
07-30-2012, 01:36 PM
Can't wait to read your report Ziggy!

Nomad
07-30-2012, 01:52 PM
Hey zig, im here too. Whatchya wearing i might find you

BRONCOS gear! He'll be the one with the BRONCOS shirt and hat.:D

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 03:01 PM
That was fun. I sat next to Kirk, the guy who goes by Captain Kirk over at Mile High Report and does the training camp blog over there. He's a nice guy and very informative about what's happened throughout camp. Let's get started with my observations:

Special Teams: Every returner outside of Decker and Sid dropped at least one punt. As much as I don't want to see Decker returning kicks, he may have to just to avoid turnovers. It seems that muffed kicks have been a problem throughout camp. The returners today were Willis, Decker, Squid, Bolden, Florence, and Carter. I hope that someone emerges as a legit kick returner.

Defense: For much of the day the defense was on the far fields, so I didn't get to observe them nearly as much as I did the offensive players. I'll go through the players that stood out to me.
Dline-
Vickerson- The man is back to being a mountain. He's huge and there's no sloppiness to that size. He was running 2nd team Dline today. He looks good out there. Nothing flashy, but very steady and rock solid against the run again.
Ty Warren- Beast! He was manhandling people all day long. He looks quite a bit bigger than his listed 300 pounds. No one can handle him in either the drills or the scrimmages.
Derrek Wolfe- He didn't really flash at all today. He's running 2nd team at both D end and D tackle on passing downs.
Mitch Unrein- 1st team reps all day long next to Warren. He's solid against the run. No pass rush whatsoever.
Ben Garland- He had one play on the 3rd and one drills where he completely blew up the offensive line and destroyed the play in the backfield. Other than that I never noticed him.
Ayers- Different season, same player. Very good against the run, no pass rush to speak of.
Hunter- He flashed a couple of times today with good plays behind the line. He's intense the whole practice and makes a very solid backup to Doom.
Malik Jackson- He would have had 2 sacks today if the play was live. Good pass rusher but quiet other than that.
Sealver Siliga- He's a load. In the line drills against the offense he pushed JD Walton straight back about 8 yards into the would be QB with little to no effort.
Doom- He was stuffed all day by Clady. Very quiet day for the Doomster.
D-Line as a whole- It's hard to say just how much the Dline has improved because our interior offensive line is so bad. Without Kuper in there, I think a good high school team could get some pressure up the middle. In the 7 on 7 drills with just Olineman and RB's vs. Dlineman and LB'ers, the D absolutely dominated. I don't think the offense gained more than 3 yards more than twice. It was sad.

LB'ers-
Mays- looks the same as he did last year. There were a couple of plays where he would have knocked a fool out, but he was taking the wrong gap time and time again.
Von- Was eerily quiet today.
Irving- He played both MLB with the 2nd team, and OLB in some situations. I didn't see anything eye opening from him.
Danny Tevathan- Here was the lone bright spot at LB today. This kid is a player. He's running 1st team nickel and can flat out cover people. He also had a would be sack, and a couple of nice tackles. The Broncos look to have found a late round gem that has a nose for the ball.
Woodyard- Solid, but unspectacular. He's a good NFL backup linebacker, not much more. I wouldn't be surprised to see Travathan running with the first team before camp is over.
Mohamed- He caught my eye a couple of times in the pass rush. He was bringing good pressure on the outside against the backup tackles.
LBers overall-IT's hard to judge these guys for the simple fact that our Dline was dominating the Oline so much in drills that they weren't needed very much. Other than Trevathan they were getting killed in pass coverage. With Manning though, that's to be expected.

Secondary-
Champ- He's still Champ. Watching him work against Thomas and Decker is a lot of fun. Battles were won on both sides. He's still got his makeup speed, but guys were getting open on him more than I've seen at past training camps. I love the way he was teaching Thomas inbetween reps.
Porter- I think he's locked in at the #2 spot. He's solid in all facets.
Harris- He looked good today. He's physical and can cover the slot. My money is on him for the nickel spot despite the signing of Florence.
Florence- He looked decent, but I think he ends up as the 4th corner.
Mike Adams- He's never out of position. Great safety valve and last line of defense. He's also a vocal leader out there already.
Rahim Moore- He looks like he has his confidence back. He's playing well and believe it or not looks like a natural at SS this year. He had one play where he popped Lance Ball just as he caught a ball down the sideline. Rahim held up or it would have been lights out for Lance. It looked like a re-run of the play that he was fined for last season.
Carter- Didn't dress out.
Omar Bolden- He can cover, but you can see the rookie mindset in him. He's thinking too much right now. He may be our most physical corner outside of Harris. He had a bad day in kick returns, but a decent day in coverage.
Secondary Overall-This group is vastly improved from last season. The Broncos look to have adressed that weakness very well in the offseason.

Defense Overall- Other than the 3rd and 1 drill, the defense dominated for the most part today. I say that with the exception of the Manning factor. When you have a QB that can hit a receiver that is completely covered and make it look easy, I have to give the D some grace. The linebacker situation concerns me. The D line improvement will help, but LB is our weak spot now on this D. Other than Von, we're in trouble there. There wasn't a lot of blitzing today. There didn't need to be. You might read about how the offensive unit dominated the 11 on 11's, but don't buy into it. A lot of the plays that went for completions would have been sacks, but in camp they play through it. The defense is much improved outside of the linbacker position, and they will get pressure on the QB in passing situations.

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Offense-
Oline-
Clady- Pay the man. He's was a wall again today. He'll be a top 5 tackle again by the end of the season.
Beadles and Walton- I'm putting them together because they're basically the same player. Weak at the point of attack and just plain bad. Walton will keep his job because Blake had 3 bad snaps yesterday and has been having trouble with that throughout camp. There's no one to challenge him unfortunately. If Beadles keeps his job as well, I give Manning a 50/50 shot to stay healthy this season.
Kuper- Took some reps in drills, but they seem to be handling him with kid gloves. I'm fine with that.
Ramirez- He's filling in for Kuper. I sure hope Kuper gets healthy soon.
Harris- He looked really good today. I was very impressed with his overall blocking. I think he can play the end well if he can stay healthy. That's a big if, but it would allow us to get stronger up the middle by moving Franklin inside.
Oline overall-They look good at the starting tackle positions. The interior line is a mess. The Broncos are not going to the super bowl with this interior line, plain and simple. I hope that Kuper gets healthy and Elway makes a move to bolster that interior. If not, Peyton may not play the whole season. Yes, I see it as that serious. The backups are horrid as well. I did notice that in some short yardage situations the Broncos lined up a tackle outside of Clady, going with 3. It looked like a remnant of last season's offense.

RB's-
I'm going to start off by saying that the running lanes were far and few between.
McGahee- He looks the same to me. He can find the hole quickly, and get through it. He's a solid starter.
Moreno- He looks decent in space. He seemed to be the primary 3rd down back today, unless it was 3rd and short. The Broncos aren't fools. In the 3rd and 1 drill, Moreno didn't even sniff the field. He did stand on the sideline and talk trash to the defense though. Big Vick looked like he was about to come over and whoop his butt.
Hillman- He has the shiftiness that was advertised. I couldn't tell if he could hit the hole, because the backup offensive line never made any. Hillman never got a chance to showcase his speed. He did have some nice juke steps though.
Ball- Jack of all trades, master of none. Solid 3rd or 4th string back.
Johnson- He looked good. The kid hits the hole decisively and accelerates well.
Omon- He can make a hole when there isn't one. The kid runs hard.
Fannin- I'd be surprised if he makes the team outside of the practice squad. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.
Gronkowski- He did well blocking when he got his chances. He looks like a very good lead blocker. It looks like he'll be seeing the field on short yardage and red zone situations.
RB's Overall- They really didn't have much of a chance to show much today. The holes just weren't there. The offensive line was dominated all day long.

WR's-
Thomas- That is one huge receiver. He looks like a big TE standing out there. He dropped one that would have been a TD, but other than that looked great today. Both he and Decker have a swagger this season. Both are brimming with confidence. Outside of Champ, DT abused all of the corners. He abused Champ a time or two as well.
Decker- He looks good. He still has the dropsies at times, but never while fielding kicks. Odd. He can get open and he's a big target when he does.
Stokely- If I didn't know better I'd say that he has stickem on his hands. He's a black hole for footballs. He swallows them up. He's slow as molasses, but still gets open. He's the definition of a wiley veteran. His technique is flawless. Look for him to get a lot of playing time this season. Manning still goes to him in a pinch.
Caldwell- He's clearly the speed wideout on the outside. If either Decker or DT go down, he looks like he can fill in. His speed is evident and he runs good routes. The 3rd WR spot will come down to him and Stokes.
Hill- Not impressive at all. I was hoping he would challenge for the #3 spot when they signed him, but he's not in the same league as Stokes and Caldwell.
Willis- Bad day for him today. He was dropping balls in drills and punt return duties.
Gerelle Robinson- Big kid, and you can see the upside. Definite practice squad candidate and Osweiller's security blanket.
WR's Overall-I don't think the Broncos miss Eddie Royal at all outside of kick returns. This group has size, speed, and swagger. There's some good talent here.

TE's-
Tamme- Slim and quick. He really doesn't look like a TE. Good hands and route runner though.
Dreesen- He's the primary TE and is a very good blocker. He'll be on the field nearly every play.
Thomas and Green- Neither did anything to catch my attention today.
TE's Overall-Manning was targeting WR's today. He rarely went to the TE's. I don't know if that was by design, or just what the defense was giving. I'm thinking that it's more a product of the talent at WR. They didn't run a lot of 2 TE sets today. Most were one back, one TE, 3 WR sets.

QB's-
Manning- I'll start off by saying that he missed 4-5 throws today. That being said.....wow! I've been coming to training camp since the early days of Elway and I've never seen a QB that can place the ball like he can. Receivers that seem to be covered like a blanket are catching balls simply because he's putting them in the perfect spot nearly every time. He makes it hard to judge the secondary, because he completes passes that most QB's wouldn't even attempt, and makes it look easy. Most of the throws today were short/intermediate routes. He did have one pass that went 50 yards to Decker and was right on his hands between 2 defenders. Manning diagnoses the defense so quickly that there really is no defense for him. His arm strength looks decent to me. He never had a cannon, but he can make all the throws with accuracy. He was teaching everyone today. Offense, DB's, 2nd team, and even the coaches a time or two. During one drill, he was chewing out the 2nd team for not lining up quickly enough. He also took some time to mess with a couple of the kids in the crowd inbetween drills. He gave them a water bottle and his wristbands when he was done. The guy just oozes leadership and excellence.
Osweiller- He impressed me today. He has some trouble going through his progressions at times, but he has a strong arm. Cutler strong. Right now he's thinking and not reacting, but that's normal for a rookie QB. Don't be surprised to see him listed as the 2nd team QB when camp is done. I think that the only way it doesn't happen is if the Broncos just want to bring him along slowly regardless. You can see why Elway liked the kid enough to spend a 2nd rounder on him.
Hanie and Weber- 3rd string caliber NFL QB's. Neither are worth a serious investment.
QB's Overall-Manning is Manning. If he stays on his feet this season, the Broncos can make some noise in the playoffs. The Oline is putrid on the inside. Getting Kuper back should help some, but Manning will still make them look decent regardless. There needs to be some major improvements made there either during the season or in the offseason. The WR talent is there. Those guys are big, fast, and confident. The passing game will be great this season. With Manning keeping defenses from loading up the box the running game should be good as well. I think we'll have some trouble in 3rd and very short yardage situations. Other than that, I expect the scoring to go way up this season.


Other quick notes:
Fannin looked like he was limping a bit today.
Kick returns may become a problem if we don't use Decker back there.
Despite all the talk, I still believe that the Broncos will be primarily a passing team in 2012.
I nearly forgot to metion Beal. He was making plays all over the place today. He flashed all day long.


Feel free to ask questions.

BroncoWave
07-30-2012, 06:37 PM
Good report, but I think it's a little over-dramatic to say there is a 50-50 chance Manning will get hurt based on one day of camp. Keep in mind he has never missed a game in his entire career due to an injury caused on the field. Given the combination of how quickly he gets the ball out and how much the NFL protects star QBs, I have very little worry he will be injured.

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 06:46 PM
Good report, but I think it's a little over-dramatic to say there is a 50-50 chance Manning will get hurt based on one day of camp. Keep in mind he has never missed a game in his entire career due to an injury caused on the field. Given the combination of how quickly he gets the ball out and how much the NFL protects star QBs, I have very little worry he will be injured.

Maybe so, but I'm basing that prediction on what I saw last season from the interior line as well. It's an area that was putrid and hasn't been improved. If anything the Kuper injury makes the interior line weaker. I hope he gets back to his old form soon. I think it will be adressed before the season opens. The coaches see what's going on.

Superchop 7
07-30-2012, 07:17 PM
So.....you think a kid that is so tall that the entire secondary can read his eyes easily.........a kid that cannot read progressions beyond the safety valve.........should be our #2 ?

Just sayin Zig....... not a formula for success. This kid needs time to develop.

MOtorboat
07-30-2012, 07:44 PM
So.....you think a kid that is so tall that the entire secondary can read his eyes easily.........a kid that cannot read progressions beyond the safety valve.........should be our #2 ?

Just sayin Zig....... not a formula for success. This kid needs time to develop.

What? Jimminy Christmas your reasoning is bad.

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 08:07 PM
So.....you think a kid that is so tall that the entire secondary can read his eyes easily.........a kid that cannot read progressions beyond the safety valve.........should be our #2 ?

Just sayin Zig....... not a formula for success. This kid needs time to develop.

2 things Chop. 1.- Even without being able to go through his progressions quickly, he's our 2nd best QB. I guess you really have to see Hanie and Weber in action to understand. 2. They take just as long, have no arm, and are far less accurate. If we have to go to the #2 QB this season, we're in trouble regardless. I probably should have explained it better. Hanie and Weber are just as poor at reading a D. The difference is that Osweiller is a rookie so he has an excuse and has a better chance of progressing as the season goes on.

chazoe60
07-30-2012, 08:24 PM
Thanks Ziggy.

Couple of questions.

Other than missing some snaps how did Blake look at C?

Where does Trevathon fit at LB? Is it just in nickel or do you think he'll be DJ's replacement during the suspension?

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 08:30 PM
Thanks Ziggy.

Couple of questions.

Other than missing some snaps how did Blake look at C?

Where does Trevathon fit at LB? Is it just in nickel or do you think he'll be DJ's replacement during the suspension?

Blake didn't get snaps at center today. They used CJ Davis as a backup. I would have liked to have seen Blake, but I don't recall seeing him out there at all. He might have been running with the 3rd team, but I didn't pay attention to the lines a whole lot when they were in.

Travathon is the starting WLB in the nickel right now, but I think he has a shot to challenge for a starting position in the base D as well. I've read great things about him all week, and then saw them for myself today. He just looks like a natural playmaker out there to me.

MOtorboat
07-30-2012, 08:33 PM
Blake didn't get snaps at center today. They used CJ Davis as a backup. I would have liked to have seen Blake, but I don't recall seeing him out there at all. He might have been running with the 3rd team, but I didn't pay attention to the lines a whole lot when they were in.

Travathon is the starting WLB in the nickel right now, but I think he has a shot to challenge for a starting position in the base D as well. I've read great things about him all week, and then saw them for myself today. He just looks like a natural playmaker out there to me.

Was Blake running at tackle? Maybe that's why you didn't notice?

Ziggy
07-30-2012, 11:38 PM
He definitely wasn't playing tackle today on the first or second team.

Elevation inc
07-31-2012, 01:19 PM
word is blake is struggling snapping the ball....not sure why but untill that is fixed we wont see him anytime soon in any substance which sucks cause walton can snap he just cant block.....

Jsteve01
07-31-2012, 02:46 PM
Hopefully it all comes back because we need that depth and Walton needs pushed.

silkamilkamonico
07-31-2012, 02:57 PM
I think a good high school team could get some pressure up the middle. In the 7 on 7 drills with just Olineman and RB's vs. Dlineman and LB'ers, the D absolutely dominated. I don't think the offense gained more than 3 yards more than twice. It was sad.


If it's that bad, I may possibly lower my expectations significantly. Possibly even for the next few years Manning is here.

:tsk:

BroncoWave
07-31-2012, 04:06 PM
Geez, talk about overreacting to one practice. Wake me when our o-line is giving up huge pressure up the middle in actual games.

Ziggy
07-31-2012, 04:21 PM
Geez, talk about overreacting to one practice. Wake me when our o-line is giving up huge pressure up the middle in actual games.

Did you watch any games last season? Like I said before.....it's not off of one practice. It's based off of the fact that we were weak up the middle last season and did nothing to improve it since. Add in Kuper's injury and we're worse off. We were getting pressure up the middle last season and that was while throwing the ball only 44% of the time. It's time to wake up BTB.

Ravage!!!
07-31-2012, 04:53 PM
It time to see that Manning can help that pressure. You'll see. Things are nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.

silkamilkamonico
07-31-2012, 05:28 PM
Did you watch any games last season? Like I said before.....it's not off of one practice. It's based off of the fact that we were weak up the middle last season and did nothing to improve it since. Add in Kuper's injury and we're worse off. We were getting pressure up the middle last season and that was while throwing the ball only 44% of the time. It's time to wake up BTB.

Stop being rational and providing great though.

I'll stop being concerned when I actually see our interior line handle pressure up the middle in an actual game, something I have yet to see in their NFL career.

Ziggy
07-31-2012, 06:30 PM
It time to see that Manning can help that pressure. You'll see. Things are nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.

Manning will help that pressure immensely. A great QB can disguise a lot of weaknesses. It still needs to be adressed before the Broncos start talking about winning super bowls. Elway's not a fool. He know that our biggest weakness was talent in the secondary last season. He adressed it. Between now and next season he'll adress this problem.

NightTerror218
07-31-2012, 06:46 PM
Ziggy, how does Miller look. I heard he has put on some muscle. He still look as fast and quick?

Ziggy
07-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Ziggy, how does Miller look. I heard he has put on some muscle. He still look as fast and quick?

He didn't do a ton at that practice. Clady shut him down every time they faced off. You can see the speed though. He looks every bit as quick as he did last year to me.

Elevation inc
07-31-2012, 07:30 PM
no things are really that bad with walton and beadles rav, they really are. However you are correct mannings quick release and willingness to dump the ball quickly will prevent alot of inside pressure......as a matter of fact we wont see very much of the 9 man stack the box which will certainly help as well.....