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tripleoption
07-19-2009, 10:52 PM
OK, with football season almost here, I see some discussion about offenses. So, I got to wondering what some of our favorite types of offenses are. Since this is football 101, say what your favorite offensive style is and why. As I'm sure everyone can tell I love the spread triple option like Navy and Georgia Tech. It cuts down on the fronts and coverages you see from opposing defenses and requires them to play assignment football. Sure, you can blitz and stunt against it, but you call the wrong blitz or stunt and it's 'seeya'. You can stop the option, but it's the other stuff that gets you. If you strengthen your perimeter defense to stop pitch, you leave the interior open to plays like trap and midline. You try to strengthen the interior of your defense, you're vulnerable to perimeter options. Try to stack the box and get your secondary overplaying the option, and you're vulnerable to the passing game, particularly play action. The big drawback to a triple option offense is how much time you have to spend if you're going to have your qb read it. It does cut down on the number of plays you can effectively run. Some coaches will call give or keep to take the decision process out of the qb's hands and be able to run more plays.
I also like a good spread passing attack, like Texas Tech. I love the NFL, but one thing I really like about the college game is the wide variety of offensive systems you see compared to the NFL.

girler
07-19-2009, 11:03 PM
My favorite offense is the '98 Broncos offense. :salute:

Broncospsycho77
07-19-2009, 11:31 PM
A-11.

Oh wait, illegal...

Wishbone.

CrazyHorse
07-19-2009, 11:36 PM
The run and shoot Hawaii ran with June Jones.
That was awesome.
Also the Spread and Coryell.

aberdien
07-20-2009, 01:14 AM
In real life? Must be the Broncos, i'm a West Coast fan.

As far as the video games go, I don't need a running back. I like to pass the ball.

West
07-20-2009, 02:22 AM
:facepalm: on these replies...

I like the offenses that pound the rock and wears down opposing teams with their physical style of play. Love it. I'd take the Wing T over any of that spread pvssy shit any day of the week.

Line up and see who the real men are... None of that spread "I don't have enough talent to contend with the big dawgs so I run a gimmick offense" bullshit. :coffee:

lex
07-20-2009, 10:30 AM
My favorite offense is the '98 Broncos offense. :salute:

Yeah, I think when you factor in TOP, yards per rush, yards per pass, and pts, that Denver team is extremely hard to beat, especially when you consider how often they called off the dogs very early in games that year. But stylistically, I liked watching that offense. It was beautiful.

Dreadnought
07-20-2009, 10:57 AM
:facepalm: on these replies...

I like the offenses that pound the rock and wears down opposing teams with their physical style of play. Love it. I'd take the Wing T over any of that spread pvssy shit any day of the week.

Line up and see who the real men are... None of that spread "I don't have enough talent to contend with the big dawgs so I run a gimmick offense" bullshit. :coffee:

I prefer the opposite; a balanced and extremely deceptive attack with no real featured guys at the skill positions. 4 or 5 man rotation at the RB spots with the FB and HB sharing carries. A TE used primarily as a pass receiver and good enough that he is never off the field on 3rd and Long (i.e. you would never see a 4 WR set.) Both WR's complementary and equally used, i.e. no such thing as a "number one" WR. The most important thing is to keep the defense guessing, at every level. Fool them enough and they get talking to themselves. Misdirection, draws, traps, screens, and a good mid-range passing attack down the middle of the field all help set each other up. Actually '98 Denver is a pretty good model for this, though obviously they were blessed with a superb HB in Davis - negating my own RBBC preference in this case.

The straight ahead "pound the rock" style is not only boring but too often ineffective. The other guys get paid too, and unless you have a clear edge in personnel you will lose. If you have weaker personnel you will lose badly

West
07-20-2009, 01:05 PM
I prefer the opposite; a balanced and extremely deceptive attack with no real featured guys at the skill positions. 4 or 5 man rotation at the RB spots with the FB and HB sharing carries. A TE used primarily as a pass receiver and good enough that he is never off the field on 3rd and Long (i.e. you would never see a 4 WR set.) Both WR's complementary and equally used, i.e. no such thing as a "number one" WR. The most important thing is to keep the defense guessing, at every level. Fool them enough and they get talking to themselves. Misdirection, draws, traps, screens, and a good mid-range passing attack down the middle of the field all help set each other up. Actually '98 Denver is a pretty good model for this, though obviously they were blessed with a superb HB in Davis - negating my own RBBC preference in this case.

The straight ahead "pound the rock" style is not only boring but too often ineffective. The other guys get paid too, and unless you have a clear edge in personnel you will lose. If you have weaker personnel you will lose badly


I strongly disagree... My high school went 13-1 in FL's class 4A with that style of offense... Our biggest guy on the OL was 6'0 250.. It can be done. We were a bunch of white boys and we whooped everyones ass with physical running and play action pass..

I really like how the Giants offense.. I love how they use 3 seperate RBs with completely different styles. The most effective thing to do on offense is to change shit up after consistent, similar play calling.

Traveler
07-20-2009, 01:16 PM
One that wins!

Lonestar
07-20-2009, 02:02 PM
this area was mostly designed for X's an O's ..

not to say this is not a good discussion, but if Y'all have some links to those Ideas it is even better..

Not everyone here understands the terms used.. and this is the perfect forum to allow them to learn or see it on a chalk board..

No question is considered stupid in here..

this is a place of learning..

sneakers
07-21-2009, 01:04 AM
Triple Option....I love watching it. Especially when it is run to perfection.

aberdien
07-21-2009, 01:53 AM
I have now changed my answer to everything (EVERYTHING) that dreadnought said or the oh so fun triple option. Almost forgot I was a Nebraska fan.

Dean
08-07-2009, 07:39 PM
Wyatt's double wing has given my defenses more trouble than anything we have faced over the last 15 years. It takes away your stunts and blitzes. It forces your corners to become tacklers and takes the safety out of pass coverage. It takes away your pursuit.

Offensively it doesn't require exceptional personnel and uses a limited number of plays. It pounds and pounds on the defense to stop the sweep, power, and trap but when you do the pass kills you for big yardage.

topscribe
08-07-2009, 07:45 PM
One that wins!

TBA in this corner.

Next time the Broncos win the SB, I'll look at that offense and say, "This is my favorite offense!" :beer:

-----

Dreadnought
08-07-2009, 09:04 PM
Out of curiosity, any of you guys who coach or have played recently ever encountered the Single Wing? Its not totally dissimilar to the Wildcat in a lot of ways. I know its like 60 - 70 years out of date, but my understanding is that some small programs have revived it.

West
08-07-2009, 09:06 PM
Wyatt's double wing has given my defenses more trouble than anything we have faced over the last 15 years. It takes away your stunts and blitzes. It forces your corners to become tacklers and takes the safety out of pass coverage. It takes away your pursuit.

Offensively it doesn't require exceptional personnel and uses a limited number of plays. It pounds and pounds on the defense to stop the sweep, power, and trap but when you do the pass kills you for big yardage.

Gotta play fundamental discipline football when it comes to the double wing. Thats the only way.

West
08-07-2009, 09:08 PM
Out of curiosity, any of you guys who coach or have played recently ever encountered the Single Wing? Its not totally dissimilar to the Wildcat in a lot of ways. I know its like 60 - 70 years out of date, but my understanding is that some small programs have revived it.

Very rarely. We played our regular defense and viewed the wing back as a slot player.

tripleoption
08-07-2009, 11:14 PM
Out of curiosity, any of you guys who coach or have played recently ever encountered the Single Wing? Its not totally dissimilar to the Wildcat in a lot of ways. I know its like 60 - 70 years out of date, but my understanding is that some small programs have revived it.

See it every year. Our defending league champs run it, and they are on a 39 game win streak and have won the past three 1A football titles in Colorado. They don't always have the best players, but they play hard, are tough and hard nosed, and are very well coached. They don't run many plays, and they do pound it. They'll throw maybe three or four times a game, and that's if they feel like airing it out. They've been running it for years, and they execute it so well. I'd say their spin series is their most effective series, and they had a QB/RB a few years ago who was so good at hiding the ball he'd be in the endzone before you know it. It's a tough offense to prepare for because it's different and relies so much on misdirection. You also only have a couple of days to prepare for it. I think we do about as good a job as we can with it, and we've made them work for it, but their coach is very patient. I see lots of coaches, especially young coaches and new coaches, get impatient with something and get out of what they want to do. This single wing team will just keep running the same plays and they get you eventually. Basically they say 'this is what we're going to do, see if you can stop it.'

West
08-08-2009, 09:50 AM
See it every year. Our defending league champs run it, and they are on a 39 game win streak and have won the past three 1A football titles in Colorado. They don't always have the best players, but they play hard, are tough and hard nosed, and are very well coached. They don't run many plays, and they do pound it. They'll throw maybe three or four times a game, and that's if they feel like airing it out. They've been running it for years, and they execute it so well. I'd say their spin series is their most effective series, and they had a QB/RB a few years ago who was so good at hiding the ball he'd be in the endzone before you know it. It's a tough offense to prepare for because it's different and relies so much on misdirection. You also only have a couple of days to prepare for it. I think we do about as good a job as we can with it, and we've made them work for it, but their coach is very patient. I see lots of coaches, especially young coaches and new coaches, get impatient with something and get out of what they want to do. This single wing team will just keep running the same plays and they get you eventually. Basically they say 'this is what we're going to do, see if you can stop it.'

"Split veer, like novacane, just give it time, always works"

Assignment, assignment, assignment football. Discipline is the key factor in have a great defense rather than a good defense.

Requiem / The Dagda
08-08-2009, 07:57 PM
Air Coryell, for a few reasons. Definitely like the idea of keeping defenses more honest by a long-stretched vertical game as opposed to short and intermediate routes emphasized by Walsh and his disciples. Pretty successful offense. Martz and Turner have done well with it. You need not look further than the Cowboys teams of the early 90s to see how effective Don's offense could be. Sure, the West Coast is nice -- but I like the base of what it was and the nomenclature that comes along with it. Don was a great coach.

Skinny
08-08-2009, 08:43 PM
I've always liked the plethra of plays the I-formation gives you. In both the run and pass.

tripleoption
08-08-2009, 09:20 PM
this area was mostly designed for X's an O's ..

not to say this is not a good discussion, but if Y'all have some links to those Ideas it is even better..

Not everyone here understands the terms used.. and this is the perfect forum to allow them to learn or see it on a chalk board..

No question is considered stupid in here..

this is a place of learning..

Reading this post got me thinking. Tned is right, and I think there was some misunderstanding of the purpose of this. Since I'm the OP, I'm gonna attempt to change the rules here a bit for this thread. :D If you have a favorite offensive system, be able to describe the system and how it works. Avoid things like '98' Broncos or '88' 49ers. That's not a system, that's a team. Systems are things like the west coast offense, the spread passing game, the wing T, the double wing, the splitback veer, and so on. Describe strengths and weaknesses of your favorite system. If you have a system you think you like but don't know much about it, research it before you post. You can learn a lot that way. Also, let's not bash or criticize what people have to say here. You may love the double wing or power I and think all other offenses suck. That's fine, that's your opinion, but there are a lot of other systems out there that have won state and national titles by putting 40, 50 or 60 points on the board weekly. The simple fact is that there is no perfect offense, or defense for that matter. If there were, everyone would run it. So lets see if we can get some learnin' going here and have some fun:beer:

tripleoption
08-08-2009, 09:25 PM
Air Coryell, for a few reasons. Definitely like the idea of keeping defenses more honest by a long-stretched vertical game as opposed to short and intermediate routes emphasized by Walsh and his disciples. Pretty successful offense. Martz and Turner have done well with it. You need not look further than the Cowboys teams of the early 90s to see how effective Don's offense could be. Sure, the West Coast is nice -- but I like the base of what it was and the nomenclature that comes along with it. Don was a great coach.

Yes he was. Too bad he never won a Super Bowl. Did you ever finish that book I gave you? :defense:

frenchfan
08-10-2009, 06:43 AM
Well... We are in the football 101 forum... So I guess I can ask my questions to learn a lot from you...

1/ What are the offensive style you can't play in the NFL?
2/ If some legal styles are not played in the NFL, do you have any clue why?
3/ What are the differences between Triple Option, Spread and West Coast?

As I don't have any clue about college football, I'd say my fav style of offense is balanced ball control (especially with a bad or average D). Humm... well, is it really a "style" according to the discussion? :confused: :D

I really love our 98's O... We could do anything : run ,pass, inside, outside and eat the clock... Or 90's 49ers...
Though I love passing game, I don't like to have an O that only relies on passes... You have to make any D to respect your passing and running game...
I prefer Broncos 98's West Coast or 49ers 90's West Coast than 19-1's Pat (I guess it was a Spread?)... IMO Pats passed to much... But may be I only refer to the SB because it seems that Pats ran the ball quick well anyway...

Thanks for those threads... A gold mine for me :salute: :beer:

tripleoption
08-10-2009, 08:46 AM
Well... We are in the football 101 forum... So I guess I can ask my questions to learn a lot from you...

1/ What are the offensive style you can't play in the NFL?
2/ If some legal styles are not played in the NFL, do you have any clue why?
3/ What are the differences between Triple Option, Spread and West Coast?



I'll do my best to answer your questions here. First of all, you can play any style of offense you want in the NFL as long as you line up according to the rules (7 men on the LOS, 4 off the LOS). If I'm wrong on this I'm sure someone will let me know :laugh:. Some offenses like the triple option you will not see in the NFL though. I've heard several arguments for not running the triple option in the NFL. The main one seems to be that the coaches and players on defense are too good. Maybe so, but you'd think the coaches and players on offense are just as good. The other argument, and this is the one that I subscribe to, is that teams don't want to expose a first string QB who is being paid tens of millions of dollars to repeated hits. In a triple option offense your QB will run the ball many times a game, and will get tackled a lot. However, based on my experience option QB's don't get hurt any more often than passing QB's. Other offenses like the old wing-T are considered outdated for the modern NFL. You see the wing-T mostly in high school and some small colleges. I think the last major college to run it was the University of Delaware under coach Tubby Raymond. U of D scrapped it when Tubby retired a few years ago. However, if you go back and look at films of NFL games from the 50s and early 60s, you will see teams running classic wing T.
The triple option is a run based offense. I love triple option offenses because it forces defenses to play assignment football and cuts down on the blitzes and coverages you see. Plus, you don't always need superior personnel to run it. You can leave players unblocked and have your QB read what they do and decide whether to give or keep the ball. Here's a link with more information on the triple option:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_option. The spread offense is like the name implies-use a lot of spread sets and throw the ball. The idea is to create space to complete passes and spread out the defense and force them to defend the entire field, not just part of it.
The west coast offense is different in that it doesn't spread the field as much, typically uses two running backs, and relies heavily on short, high percentage passes to move the ball. Here is a link for the west coast offense: http://www.westcoastoffense.com/
I can go into a LOT more detail about the triple option and spread offense if you ever like, as I have considerable experience with those. For the west coast offense, you'll have to ask someone else :D. Hope this helps you frenchfan!

frenchfan
08-10-2009, 09:38 AM
Thank you very much...
A lot of good information ! :beer:

Yeah, you can go deeper into the triple option and spread if you like (and if you don't have to much time to waste :laugh: ). It's very interesting...

I know WC a lot more for having seen the 49ers and our Broncos under Shanny...
What I like about WC offense is that IMO is much more balanced than spread (I've never seen a triple option so I won't try to compare :D). And it's also a clock eater, just like the power offense used by 80 and 90's Giants (or NFC East in general). It's good as long as you can score...

Anyway, what is the real difference for the QB between WC and Spread? :confused:
I mean, IMO, both are all about reading the D, reading the play and decision making... Or does that imply having more physical tools (better arm, and so on)? Or may be there are more reads in a spread than in a WC?

Damn... I start to be really addicted to this football 101 stuff... Very interesting... Now, I know what's to be a rookie... I have to eat all that damn game plan ! :laugh:

tripleoption
08-10-2009, 09:24 PM
French, I realized one other thing about why you don't see certain offenses in the NFL. The rules in the NFL favor passing, and that's what most people like to see. It puts fans in the seats. If you had a bunch of NFL teams running double tight double wing, full house backfields, or power I where everything is the old 'three yards and a cloud of dust', a lot of fans would find it low scoring and boring. Sure, there are fans that would love that kind of football, but I'd say the average fan likes high scoring games with big plays. Same thing with college ball. I was on a coaching forum last year and the topic of why more colleges don't run the old wishbone or split back veer popped up. They are still very effective and explosive offenses. One guy posted that he attended a clinic that Urban Meyer spoke at (while he was still with Utah). Someone in the audience asked him why he ran spread shotgun option and not classic triple option. Meyer said he loved the splitback veer, wishbone, and so on and would love to run them. However, that's not what people want. He went on to say that if he went into a job interview saying he was going to run the wishbone or splitback veer, he knew he'd have no chance at the job and wouldn't be asked back for any follow up interviews. Now perhaps this story is an urban legend (no pun intended :laugh:), but even if it is I think there is a lot of truth behind the thinking.

frenchfan
08-11-2009, 01:35 AM
Yeah... You made a good point indeed...
Passing is much more exciting than running up the middle ! :D

I do love passing game too... But I know that to be efficient it's good to be able to run... Plus, you can adapt more easily against any kind of D...
For example, Packers made a game plan to shut down Elway... We made us pay that with our running game... Next year, Falcons tried to defy our running game and we killed them with passing game.
When you can do that, you're almost unstoppable.

But I guess I'm not a typical football fan... What I like is to watch my team playing with heart and soul... and winning :D
After all, I'm used to watch bored football ... hummm... sorry... soccer games :laugh:

I'll be a bit off topic, but I think we should do the same thread about D...

nj10
08-16-2009, 05:59 PM
:facepalm: on these replies...

I like the offenses that pound the rock and wears down opposing teams with their physical style of play. Love it. I'd take the Wing T over any of that spread pvssy shit any day of the week.

Line up and see who the real men are... None of that spread "I don't have enough talent to contend with the big dawgs so I run a gimmick offense" bullshit. :coffee:

Agreed...But screw the wing-T. Real men run out of the I-formation.

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