Who do you foresee being a disappointment on defense?

[lex]

OK, I know if you foresee it, you can question whether its a disappointment. But think of it in terms of what many expect. Poll to follow.

FWIW, you can make multiple selections.

[Lonestar]

anything and I mean anything they accomplish on D will be heads and above what we have seen the past two years..:salute:


I see light at the end of the tunnel.

of course I did when Bates was hired also..

[silkamilkamonico]

The disappointment I see will come with lack of talent in making the transition. I just hope that they show some heart and play with a sense of pride and purpose.

[Tned]

It's hard to talk about disappointments when in many cases we don't even know who will start.

The front three is a big question, but even if they struggle, could that be called a disappointment?

Goodman and Hill were let go by Miami, so if they don't play well, would it be a disappointment?

If our small DE's moved to OLB struggle, could it be considered a disappointment?

So, that really leaves us with Hawkins, Champ, DJ and Andre as the only known starters that could actually 'disappoint'.

Based on what we know now, what would be the biggest disappointment is if Smith doesn't win the nickel spot, after spending what will possibly be a very high first round pick for him.

[silkamilkamonico]

Based on what we know now, what would be the biggest disappointment is if Smith doesn't win the nickel spot, after spending what will possibly be a very high first round pick for him.

I agree. Although there should be a grace period for the young/new players to become adapted to the scheme, there the ones the new regime have chosen to bring in, and they should be kept under microscope on development and production to gauge how the new regime is doing.

[SoCalImport]

I'd be surprised if Doom was able to turn his hips and cover ANYBODY from the OLB position. Then again, if it's a problem for him then he won't see the field accept to rush the QB.

[Lonestar]

I'd be surprised if Doom was able to turn his hips and cover ANYBODY from the OLB position. Then again, if it's a problem for him then he won't see the field accept to rush the QB.


if he continues to be a one trick pony then he will not make this squad.. we can't advertise like we have in the past he is coming he is coming..

good as he is they will just fake pass and throw to his open man.. because everyone in the stadium knows he is coming..

[nevcraw]

When Spenser Larsen finally starts @ ILB, I will be dissapointed that it didn't happen earlier..

[UnderArmour]

Disappointment? Even if we finish ranked 25th overall, nothing can be worse than last year's defense.

[Lonestar]

I believe our D will improve barring injury.. we will still lose more games than we win but the games will be closer.. with NO blowouts.. like the past couple of years..

Our TEAM will be ready to play mentally all the games on the schedule..

[broncohead]

I say Ayers. I don't see him covering anyone or being an effective blitzer. The only thing I see Ayers doing is being strong against the run. He's a 4-3 DE not 3-4 OLB

[shank]

When Spenser Larsen finally starts @ ILB, I will be dissapointed that it didn't happen earlier..

consider mine a super-duper high five, and therefor a bit of a write-in vote for andra davis... i do hope he imparts spencer with some wisdom early though, allowing him to take the reins.

[atwater27]

Disappointment is in the coaching staff for not upgrading our biggest need for 5 years.... DEFENSIVE TACKLE.

[MOtorboat]

Disappointment is in the coaching staff for not upgrading our biggest need for 5 years.... DEFENSIVE TACKLE.

Ah yes, the coaching staff that shouldn't have been fired...


lol

[atwater27]

Ah yes, the coaching staff that shouldn't have been fired...


lol

Ah yes, the need to explain everything to MB...

I blame Shanahan as well as the new coach. You'd think the new guy would have figured out the reason the old coach got the axe and make that his first order of business..... You know, the smart thing to do.

[ChampWJ]

I think it's going to be disappointing watching McDaniels' defense of his offseason moves when the losing begins. :whoknows:

Couldn't resist, but back on topic, I do think the biggest disappointment on defense will be the line as a whole. Ryan McBean and Ron Fields, are you kidding me?

[Dean]

Too bad that we could only mark one.



:throwrock:

[Simple Jaded]

I don't expect much from this defense, so most of my disappointment will come when Broncos fans find yet another way to blame the QB when the defense is clearly the problem.......

[Lonestar]

I don't expect much from this defense, so most of my disappointment will come when Broncos fans find yet another way to blame the QB when the defense is clearly the problem.......



:tsk:

[atwater27]

I don't expect much from this defense, so most of my disappointment will come when Broncos fans find yet another way to blame the QB when the defense is clearly the problem.......

Indeed!:beer:

[Ravage!!!]

I don't expect much from this defense, so most of my disappointment will come when Broncos fans find yet another way to blame the QB when the defense is clearly the problem.......

It will just be easier this year considering the off season drama.

[aberdien]

I don't expect much from this defense, so most of my disappointment will come when Broncos fans find yet another way to blame the QB when the defense is clearly the problem.......

Correct, sir.

[dogfish]

everyone not named champ bailey? nah. . . im at least hopeful for ayers and doom

[Elevation inc]

i think darrell reid at OLB, renaldo hill @ FS will be the 2 biggest failures. hill will be replaced by barrett/bruton/mcbath by midseason. and darrell reid will be relegated at OLB behind ayers/crowder/dumervil/moss by midseason....

reid is a underachieveing DT and special teams Demon...a OLB he is certainly not!!!! lol and hill is a slow safety that doesnt have near the skills or talent of a guy like dawkins who has a skill set to compensate for declining speed

[CoachChaz]

I'm curious...can someone tell me exactly what options Denver had in the market to make SIGNIFICANT improvements to the d-line. Naysayers will always be naysayers. We could have signed 4 pro-bowl DL's and they would still complain about something

[Dean]

I'm curious...can someone tell me exactly what options Denver had in the market to make SIGNIFICANT improvements to the d-line. Naysayers will always be naysayers. We could have signed 4 pro-bowl DL's and they would still complain about something

Had the Broncos signed DL rather than ancient D-backs, multiple running backs, and an unneeded tight end I thnk there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Possibly neglecting the weakest segment of last year's team except with backups and undrafted free agents might be viewed as being less than wise.

If a first round pick next year, a third, and a fifth round pick this year were to be used to trade up there were options available. With all of our second round pcks, there were many D-linemen and LB. Other strong 3-4 defensive teams thought enough of these players to pick them up in the second and third. Are we a better judge of talent than they are? :confused:

[CoachChaz]

Had the Broncos signed DL rather than ancient D-backs, multiple running backs, and an unneeded tight end I thnk there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Possibly neglecting the weakest segment of last year's team except with backups and undrafted free agents might be viewed as being less than wise.

If a first round pick next year, a third, and a fifth round pick this year were to be used to trade up there were options available. With all of our second round pcks, there were many D-linemen and LB. Other strong 3-4 defensive teams thought enough of these players to pick them up in the second and third. Are we a better judge of talent than they are? :confused:

The question I posed was along the lines of WHO. Who were we suppose to sign or draft that was available and was a significant upgrade?

[atwater27]

We could have signed 4 pro-bowl DL's and they would still complain about something

Not me. I'd be happy.

[Elevation inc]

Not me. I'd be happy.

of course you would, it would be history in the making......4 pro bowl DL's would never all be FA's at once and go to the same team.....:lol:

[atwater27]

The question I posed was along the lines of WHO. Who were we suppose to sign or draft that was available and was a significant upgrade?

I am sure you will find a reason why we shouldn't have signed or drafted them, but they would be MASSSIVE upgrades regardless of the contract...

Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs, Tommie Harris, Tank johnson, Julius Peppers. We had extra picks and players to trade and everything. Why couldn't we have landed one of these guys? Instead we signed a thousand average running backs and a bunch of journeyman retreads on defense.
Now that's progress. And the greatest thing? Not that Knowshawn isn't going to be good, but we were only 2 selections away from the best DT in the draft, so why couldn't we have traded our 1st rounder for him instead of a projected 3rd round nickel back?

[Elevation inc]

I am sure you will find a reason why we shouldn't have signed or drafted them, but they would be MASSSIVE upgrades regardless of the contract...

Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs, Tommie Harris, Tank johnson, Julius Peppers. We had extra picks and players to trade and everything. Why couldn't we have landed one of these guys? Instead we signed a thousand average running backs and a bunch of journeyman retreads on defense.
Now that's progress. And the greatest thing? Not that Knowshawn isn't going to be good, but we were only 2 selections away from the best DT in the draft, so why couldn't we have traded our 1st rounder for him instead of a projected 3rd round nickel back?

i have a feeling that money is the reason we didnt sign some of those guys, what people dont realize is we are quietly redoing the finances of the organization after bust like dewayne robertson, marlon mcree, manuel, injured players like boss bailey etc.....we also owe quite a few coaches some money, in fact out side of jeremy bates, by bowlens policy many former assitants are still being paid out there contracts.....not to mention the 7 mil to shanny

terell suggs and pepper were franchised so we would have to give up 2 first rd picks to obatin them as well as massive contracts....and peppers is a nut case who is off and on yearly....tommie harris is aging and tank johnson has character concerns.....


the reality is the grass isnt always greener on the other side from a fans persepctive.........we have to see results on the field before we can determine whether the moves were right or wrong....anything before that is speculation and heresay for either side of the arguement....

and no one knows if we tried and were denied GB needed a 3-4 NT as well so maybe they just flat out declined and we had no choice as raji was impossible to trade up for........

[Thnikkaman]

I'm going to be so disappointed when we don't have the worst Defense in the league.

[Dean]

I'm going to be so disappointed when we don't have the worst Defense in the league.

We'ved already had that. Some of us were looking for improvement at positions where it was most needed.

[Thnikkaman]

We'ved already had that. Some of us were looking for improvement at positions where it was most needed.

Some of us are pretty happy with the improvements in other positions where we weren't sure they were needed, having a Defensive Coordinator that knows what he is doing, and the concept of Team being brought back to the Mile High City. Not to mention the other things Coach has already brought to the conversation.

But hey, I'm not one to nit pick. :coffee:

[CoachChaz]

I am sure you will find a reason why we shouldn't have signed or drafted them, but they would be MASSSIVE upgrades regardless of the contract...

Albert Haynesworth, Terrell Suggs, Tommie Harris, Tank johnson, Julius Peppers. We had extra picks and players to trade and everything. Why couldn't we have landed one of these guys? Instead we signed a thousand average running backs and a bunch of journeyman retreads on defense.
Now that's progress. And the greatest thing? Not that Knowshawn isn't going to be good, but we were only 2 selections away from the best DT in the draft, so why couldn't we have traded our 1st rounder for him instead of a projected 3rd round nickel back?

They would ALL have been upgrades...


...assuming they chose to join our team. Albert cost too much, Peppers is protected, Harris isnt going anywhere and has sucked since he got his big payday and Suggs seems to have wanted to stay in Baltimore all along.

It's not a matter of not wanting the guys, just more a fact of reality and our ability to ever get them in the first place.

[dogfish]

I'm curious...can someone tell me exactly what options Denver had in the market to make SIGNIFICANT improvements to the d-line.


chris canty would've been a huge pickup, IMO. . . i'd rather have him than all three of the greybeard DBs plus andra davis, all of whom will probably be gone in two years. . . .

[Ravage!!!]

chris canty would've been a HUGE pickup, IMO. . . i'd rather have him than all three of the greybeard DBs plus andra davis, all of whom will probably be gone in two years. . . .

there.... I'm agreeing with added flavor

[CoachChaz]

chris canty would've been a huge pickup, IMO. . . i'd rather have him than all three of the greybeard DBs plus andra davis, all of whom will probably be gone in two years. . . .

No doubt Canty would have been nice. Good player and a great kid. met him twice and I'd have loved to see him here. But again...which team would you have chosen to play for? A playoff team with great support around you on the DL or a team in transition?

I just dont think Canty ever considered Denver

[dogfish]

No doubt Canty would have been nice. Good player and a great kid. met him twice and I'd have loved to see him here. But again...which team would you have chosen to play for? A playoff team with great support around you on the DL or a team in transition?

I just dont think Canty ever considered Denver


yea, that's a fair point. . . i wish we would've at least gone after him aggressively right off the bat, though. . . oh well. . .

[underrated29]

i think darrell reid at OLB, renaldo hill @ FS will be the 2 biggest failures. hill will be replaced by barrett/bruton/mcbath by midseason. and darrell reid will be relegated at OLB behind ayers/crowder/dumervil/moss by midseason....

reid is a underachieveing DT and special teams Demon...a OLB he is certainly not!!!! lol and hill is a slow safety that doesnt have near the skills or talent of a guy like dawkins who has a skill set to compensate for declining speed




Took the words right out of my mouth!!!

Reid Sucks! He sucks big time. He was a backup on the crappy Indy defense. I have seen him play and he is a ST guy nothing else. I also am not fond of hill. I think he will be like mccree or whatever his name was for us last year. (the guy from San diego).

He sucked too.

I do expect those two guys to suck. But i am actually rather enthused by the rest of our D. I think our Dline will shut down the run very very well. We will still have a problem bringing the heat on the QB, but if doom and ayers can do that......well not to shabby.

Look at SD defense. They got the big fatty at NT, but then there pressure comes from the LB. We can do that. Maybe not as well, but marked improvement for sure.

[CoachChaz]

yea, that's a fair point. . . i wish we would've at least gone after him aggressively right off the bat, though. . . oh well. . .

...and we may have. It's just one of those behind the scenes things that we'll never know one way or the other, I suppose.

[Elevation inc]

chris canty would've been a huge pickup, IMO. . . i'd rather have him than all three of the greybeard DBs plus andra davis, all of whom will probably be gone in two years. . . .

he is the guy i most wanted as well, his price tag was kinda hefty though as well.....

[Superchop 7]

It's easy to say d-line.

But, I think Andra Davis is more mouth than player.

Nate Webster II if you will.

But yeah, d-line is god-awful.

[weazel]

OK, I know if you foresee it, you can question whether its a disappointment. But think of it in terms of what many expect. Poll to follow.

FWIW, you can make multiple selections.

I didn't see "Denver Broncos" on the list...

[atwater27]

They would ALL have been upgrades...


...assuming they chose to join our team. Albert cost too much, Peppers is protected, Harris isnt going anywhere and has sucked since he got his big payday and Suggs seems to have wanted to stay in Baltimore all along.

It's not a matter of not wanting the guys, just more a fact of reality and our ability to ever get them in the first place.

Again, we had the ammo to trade. in free agency and the draft. I said that before in case you missed it.

[Lonestar]

Again, we had the ammo to trade. in free agency and the draft. I said that before in case you missed it.


yes most everyone thought the same thing..

but Josh in his wisdom choose to go with team first players, with great attitude and no moral issues and chose in this case quantity over quality.. believing in the team first scenario..

We will see over the next two three years how that turned out.. there was not much on the team talent wise to restock this team.. and restocking he has done..

there could be as many as 30 fresh faces this upcoming season..


Had he chose to go with one or two players (top of the line) it would have been 7 new faces.. and same old attitudes..

[BroncoSojia]

I say Ayers. I don't see him covering anyone or being an effective blitzer. The only thing I see Ayers doing is being strong against the run. He's a 4-3 DE not 3-4 OLB

Then why did we draft him? :confused:

[Lonestar]

Then why did we draft him? :confused:


BH seems to be at odds with almost everyone one else.. whom think he will be a great player.. Mayock thought he would be the best Defensive guy to come out of this draft..

[dogfish]

Then why did we draft him? :confused:


because he can tap dance like a crazy mofo. . . .

[T.K.O.]

i really dont see how anyone on the D or the D itself for that matter being a disappointment after the last couple years .
it should be fantastic just having some :defense:

[topscribe]

Based on what we know now, what would be the biggest disappointment is if Smith doesn't win the nickel spot, after spending what will possibly be a very high first round pick for him.

I guess that depends on how one would look at it. Would one be disappointed
in Smith or elated with Williams? To me, it could show two blue-chip players
at that position.

-----

[rationalfan]

thinking the defense's problem last year was simply the lack of a good Dlineman is thinking like shanahan - focusing on only one of many problems.

i think the biggest disappointment will be all the amateur general managers on this board not admitting they were wrong when many of mcdaniels' offseason moves actually prove to be good.

[haroldthebarrel]

Ah yes, the need to explain everything to MB...

I blame Shanahan as well as the new coach. You'd think the new guy would have figured out the reason the old coach got the axe and make that his first order of business..... You know, the smart thing to do.

Good post!
To me it is more Shanahans fault. I actually think I understand why McD didnt draft a dt/nt. There just werent more than two players and they were all projects. They were lucky going to perfect teams though, but I really dont think Brace or Ziggy Hood would do anything near as good in Denver.
If the marked isnt there I think I can understand you dont buy.

I really only hope the defense gets something better than 21 total and they dont give up as they did last year.
I want to see player progression and guys who play to the end.
We dont have many good players though we might have a lot of good role players. Which is really typical of New England.

As far as individual players. I really hoped Moss would see the light but as people say he is probably not a good fit in this new system. Neither is Marcus Thomas. My currently favorite player is Dumervil and anything less than 8 sacks and at least two fumbles is what I expect of him.
Though in reality we will very likely recognize that the defensive line is not talented and they wont be able to hold up the point of attack.
And that brings me to Ronald Fields who is just a decent back up but he is not good enough to start and make a difference.
Listening to the Pittsburgh coaches on how important that position is really makes me worried.
It haunts me that we had twice the chance on getting Kris Jenkins here, as well as we could have put a little more effort to get either of Shaun Rogers or Marcus Stroud. Shanahan, what the hell were you thinking?

But we will see.

[MOtorboat]

Ah yes, the need to explain everything to MB...

I blame Shanahan as well as the new coach. You'd think the new guy would have figured out the reason the old coach got the axe and make that his first order of business..... You know, the smart thing to do.

So, um, how many games have we played this season? I guess I missed those. I just want to know how you know that our problem isn't fixed? Because we didn't sign Albert Haynesworth. Because other free agents didn't come here? Because we didn't trade up and get B.J. Raji?

[rationalfan]

So, um, how many games have we played this season? I guess I missed those. I just want to know how you know that our problem isn't fixed? Because we didn't sign Albert Haynesworth. Because other free agents didn't come here? Because we didn't trade up and get B.J. Raji?

exactly. it's easy to feel "knowledgeable" by reciting the same knee-jerk creed everyone else is saying (we don't have a Dlineman, Orton is terrible, etc.). But given the way this new regime turned over the roster with little regard for legacy, logic suggests they have faith in ron fields or the other Dlinemen.

Granted, the coaches might have a multi-year plan that addresses the Dline down the road, but i suspect they graded the Broncos' 2008 safeties, linebackers and corners lower than the Dline.

i know that's an idea hard for many repeaters to understand, but it's a point worth considering.

[Dean]

exactly. it's easy to feel "knowledgeable" by reciting the same knee-jerk creed everyone else is saying (we don't have a Dlineman, Orton is terrible, etc.). But given the way this new regime turned over the roster with little regard for legacy, logic suggests they have faith in ron fields or the other Dlinemen.

It is eay to feel "knowledgable" by ridiculing others as well. I hope that their faith is warranted.


Granted, the coaches might have a multi-year plan that addresses the Dline down the road, but i suspect they graded the Broncos' 2008 safeties, linebackers and corners lower than the Dline.

If you don't win often enough in football you won't be around to implement a multiyear plan.


i know that's an idea hard for many repeaters to understand, but it's a point worth considering.

Once again the use of ridicule rather than reason.

:coffee:

[broncofaninfla]

I think it will be the Dline as a whole. We did little to address our biggest weakness. Postion and scheme changes should help but I still feel our DL is still our biggest weakness.

[rationalfan]

It is eay to feel "knowledgable" by ridiculing others as well. I hope that their faith is warranted.



If you don't win often enough in football you won't be around to implement a multiyear plan.



Once again the use of ridicule rather than reason.

:coffee:

it might read like ridicule but it's fact. many people can't get past the obvious problems to diagnose larger issues. reference the litany of posts that echo ideas that seem to come up in every third post.

and, on a personal note, i suspect if my language didn't use proper syntax, (mostly) proper spelling and avoid internet cliches you wouldn't be pointing out the concept of ridicule - because if i'm the only one employing that tact then the broncos are in the nfc and their quarterback is lebron james.

[Dean]

and, on a personal note, i suspect if my language didn't use proper syntax, (mostly) proper spelling and avoid internet cliches you wouldn't be pointing out the concept of ridicule - because if i'm the only one employing that tact then the broncos are in the nfc and their quarterback is lebron james.

What are you talking about? :questionmark:

[rationalfan]

What are you talking about? :questionmark:

man, if you can't figure it out i'm not wasting my time explaining it.

[topscribe]

What are you talking about? :questionmark:


man, if you can't figure it out i'm not wasting my time explaining it.

Actually, I was wondering much the same thing . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

It's hard to talk about disappointments when in many cases we don't even know who will start.

The front three is a big question, but even if they struggle, could that be called a disappointment?

Goodman and Hill were let go by Miami, so if they don't play well, would it be a disappointment?

If our small DE's moved to OLB struggle, could it be considered a disappointment?

So, that really leaves us with Hawkins, Champ, DJ and Andre as the only known starters that could actually 'disappoint'.

Based on what we know now, what would be the biggest disappointment is if Smith doesn't win the nickel spot, after spending what will possibly be a very high first round pick for him.

I think Fields is already considered the starter at nose tackle so if isn't able to handle the position then that would be disappointing. Really I suppose whomever is penciled in as a starter if they don't produce at their respective position that would be a disappointment.

[silkamilkamonico]

So I'm assuming that Carl baker dude isn't going to amount to much. People were hoping he could challenge for playing time, and understanding he was an undrafted rookie was unlikely, but there was some hype on him about a month ago.

I haven't heard a single murmur about him once TC started.