u29 camp report 7/26

[underrated29]

Im back, but I am eating and at work, so give me a few moments to get it all typed up.

First thing though is decker had two big gains that were dropped. But he was solid, real solid, as in the goto guy for manning every time else.

More in a bit........

[dogfish]

post some pictures of the cheerleaders. . .

[Northman]

You forgot to put the title of your thread "Decker up to his old tricks again".......

[SR]

You forgot to put the title of your thread "Decker up to his old tricks again".......

I assumed you're speaking about his problems catching the ball?

[vandammage13]

You forgot to put the title of your thread "Decker up to his old tricks again".......

Would have been a good title if I do say so myself.

[underrated29]

ok- lets do this. First of all there were a billion people today. You think tebow has a circus, dayum! This was the entire barnum and bailey show today. I saw two guys with a freaking cooler on wheels. Anyway for the good stuff.


It was near impossible to see with all the people in the way and I got there 1 hour early (7:45) to be exact, but what I focused on was the qbs, return game, RBs, DL, offense as a whole and wolf.


As best I can tell our starters on offense are:
manning, mcgahee, same OL as last year, with dressen at TE and DT and Decker at WR....We brought in a FB a fair amount (sylvester) and caldwell on occasion too.

Return game- The returners were (in no order)- syd, bolden, decker, porter, florence and I think dell-not positive.
Syd- had to drops from the jugs machine, and bobbled another. Which sucks because he was one of my fav. returners. I think he either makes the team as a PR guy or gets axed. He did look good with moves once he caught the ball though.

Decker- looked solid at fielding the punts, good form and hands. I think we make him our emergency guy.
Porter- Looked real good I thought, he is fast too. A quick little guy
Bolden- didnt see him much- sorry not a lot to report here.
Florence- caught the ball well, but seemed slower than the other guys.

IMO- I would rank the returners on day one as: Porter, Dekcer, Syd, Bolden, Florence....This will surely change.



RBs- Depth chart as of now is:
Mcgahee
Knowshon
Ball
Hillman
JJ/Fannin/Omon/whoever else

Mcgahee had majority of the reps with the 1s. Knowshon took a fair share too. Mcgahee, looks good man. Manning really sells the PA pass, and when we do run it, mcgahee explodes through the hole. He had solid hands when catching in the flats. He looks like a few of us said he would last year (north- you and me buddy!).

Knowshon- he took a fair amount of reps with the 1s also. And a lot of work as the 3rd down guy. There was one point where just manning and the DL and knowshon were off to one side and the line would put their hands up high in the air to knock down a pass. Knowshon was just to stand there with his hands up and let manning throw him a little 4 yard jump pass as a dump off. They were working it real hard. I think we will see a lot of those and screens to knowshon. I noticed knowshon is more of a slider than a runner too.- I still think he is built for this system. We shall see.

Hillman- ok, dude is fast. Real quick. But imo he is NOTHING like sproles. I do not see that at all. First of all, Hillman is stacked man, he is way bigger than I thought he was. Not like MJD solid, but this guy is going to surprise some people will how strong he is I think. Knowshon is more solid up top, but hillman is like mcgahee where he is just built real good. It was the first day, so it is hard to predict things, but it is possible that this guy becomes a bellcow. As for his running, he got chewed out a few times, and I did not see him with the quentin griffen type moves people were hollering for. I see him as a better runner and less hoppity. The backs worked on some bag drills and cuts, his were not the cleanest but its day one.

Fannin- He is real fast man. Might be the fastest back we have. Seriously, his running though lacks. They tried him on punt coverage for a while and also on punt blocking. He got owned by tony carter-who was acting as a gunner- and made the tackle. I did not see fannin as a blocker again, although he did line up as a guy to rush the punter.

Omon/JJ and the rest- looked meh, omon, one guy who I liked coming out looked not so good.

Ball- he got a lot of work with the 1s, but mostly 2s, as much as he is average as a RB. He is making the team again. Hopefully, we do not utilize him much.



The TEs- I was surprised at how small dressen and tamme looked. I figured they would be bigger. Especially dressen. But they both looked pretty good as receivers. I did not focus on their blocking much, but both caught the ball well, got open and will be used heavily. Heavily. People were chearing a lot of passes to the WR, but it looked like the TE were the first look a fair amount of the time. - I did not pay attention to the other TEs, but I did notice Virgil Green once.


QBs--Ok this is what you are all waiting for I am sure, so to start, well lets start it off with

Haine- This guy SUCKS!!!- There is no way in hell Oz does not take number two from him. Haine was all over the place with passes today. Maybe it was a bad day, who knows. He had one severely overthrown, severely off target endzone pass. Willis (i think) was the receiver running post route to the middle of the endzone...Haine launches one practically to the back pylon.wtf?- tony carter the DB had a hell of a time just trying to make the pick it was that bad a pass. He skipped a few others, off target on more, threw a couple away and did not look good. He also had a few nice passes with some zip. Overall- Id rather have tebow and orton over this guy. Seriously. Not good day today.

Weber- He had a few nice ones, then a bad throw and one terrible decision which resulted in a pick. I was secretly hoping he might make the #2, but as of today, day 1, thats not happening. Looks a bit rusty

Brock- aka giraffe- Did much better than I thought. He has an arm, my goodness.- He looked good too, had a few nice floaters, and a couple strikes down the field. He got picked (think it was him) on a tip drill that got tipped at least 3 different times. Pretty remarkable play by the D. Anyway as it stand now, I would take Brock as our number two if we needed to go there.

Peyton-he looks like peyton manning. I focused on him a lot. Arm looks fine. Not strong, a little slow on speed. I think it will take him until the 2nd/3rd preseason game to get it all back. Just not quite fast enough on his passes I thought. He also looked to be taking his time and diagnosing plays a lot longer in the pocket. Tell you the truth, I think he was doing it on purpose. Some might say that he seemed a little slow or looked lost, but I got the feeling that he was just seeing what was happening. Seeing how the wr and such looked after a few seconds or scramble drills or timing. I say this because when he wanted to he would move the chains. He would hit the open man and do it rather quickly. Peyton as we all know, also likes the dump offs. He gets the LBs to drop deeper by staring down the TE or 7 yard in and then he throws it to the RB....These plays are going to move the chains and get us some big big yards. He literally makes room for the RB to turn and go. Manning also had a few nice look offs on the safties. Overall- manning looks like he getting back to being manning but not there yet, which is fine, he will. He really anticipates the receivers routes so well. I will get into that when I talk about the offense at the bottom.


Defense- starters seemed to be:
Doom, warren, unrein/wolfe/bannon, ayers- woody, mays and von are the lbs, champ, porter at db and adams and moore at S.

DL- We got some pressure on several occasions from the middle. Even Joe Mays got in on a sack. Ty warren= Beast!!! To all of you who wanted to cut him because of his contract- Yes, you were so wrong!

Ty Warren- Holy smokes- He is our best DT by far!!!!- This guy is an immovable rock against the run and he dropped the pocket on a few plays. He also had a real nice rip/swim at the snap and would have destroyed the RB. Turns out it was a PA pass, but not to worry because Von was already at the QB. Now yes, it was one day, but I am loving me some Ty Warren right now. Some of the other DL guys were getting beat low or losing leverage. Ty was just beastly. He also batted down a manning pass too. Cant sing his praises enough. He caught me eye all the time.

Wolfe- some good some bad. We really are moving him all around, he was killing it as a DE, and then other times making the play from DT. He is a bit smaller than I thought he would be. If we can get him another 20+lbs of muscle I think he could own. He was engulfed a few times in the run when they went right at him and had 2 or 3 blockers in his face. The thing I liked was even though this happened and the play went to the left of him where the lbs were cleaning up, he still tried to run over there and help. Goonies never say die-neither does wolfe. I saw him beat some OL-hard to see who it was through the crowd, beadles, perhaps, and blaze through for the sack. I like this kid and cant wait to see more

Other DTs- Unrein and a bunch of other guys were getting their shot next to warren and the starters. Quite a few of them sucked, but it looks like we have a heavy package as one point it was wolfe and ayers on the ends with ty and some other fatty in the middle.

Doom- was doom, he beat people left and right. Looked pissed off and bored all at the same time. I think he wants to hit people, and Now!- when is our first pre season game? Doom has it circled.



Offense as a unit.---I really like our offense. A lot- It brings me back to the shanny days when we could move the ball and strike fast, and then fake teams out because we were so good at doing one thing and then we just drop a whole other thing on them. We practiced a flea flicker or two, and several PA Boots (WTF MCCOY!??) Now we run the PA boot, with manning but not tebow. Genius. But I like the Boot and it didnt always work, but it also opened up the run game a lot. Decker as I said is the go to guy imo. And manning is freaking surgical with where he puts the ball. He had one go route to caldwell down the sideline. Caldwell was not even open up and he was in tight coverage, but manning dropped that thing in there right as he got a half a step on the DB. It was a remarkable throw. Peyton also, throws so many passes that keep the WR in stride. You see the pass and think that it is leading the wr too far, or he got hurried and threw it too fast. I actually thought that twice, and sure enough it hit the wr in stride...There was a time or two that they had to reach for it, but OMG we have not had anything like this at QB in YEARS!....The Rbs did good, found their holes and help manning in the flats. I do not want to say we will be top 10 offense as its manning first year, but at the same time I would not be surprised if we do not run the score up on a lot of teams. I feel real good about the O and the way it looks.


Defense: I did not give them a whole lot, but they had a few picks. Two were gifts. One from Haine as I said on a terrible ball, one from weber on a high badd pass down the middle, and then the tip drill pass. They held the run for the most part except for a few lazy plays. I really was only looking at the DL guys and they were alright. I like warren a lot, wolfe, vickerson, and hunter. I did Not like bannon, unrein, and a few of the others. As long as our top 4 DTs stay up we should do pretty well. Mays was calling out plays real well and helping the team get in position. No one will be beating him out for Mlb anytime soon. I had a david bruton sighting. Honestly it was just more indivdual players. Next time I will get there even earlier and get a good seat so I can see and not have to stand and look around people.


Random things I noticed:

54- cyril something- he was a LB or DE- and I liked what I saw from him. He got some pressure and got around his guy for sacks several times. He is worth watching.
Ryan harris- saw him with the twos and he looked good. I would like to see him at the 1s with franklin over next to clady. I am not a beadles fan and walton i have lost patience with.
Blake needs to stop it up if he wants JDs job.
Knowshon- did like a half day, then he ran sprints and rested on the sideline.
DJ- ran sprints and looked like he was pretending he was playing, but off to the sides.


Ask away if you have questions- it was hard for me to see and it was day 1, so this is not the best camp report i am sorry.

[BroncoWave]

Good to hear that about Warren. I knew the people wanting him cut were out of their minds. Can't wait to see him in games. Thanks for your report!

[dogfish]

Which of the running backs has the nicest butt?

- Sincerely, Beefstew

[SR]

Which of the running backs has the nicest butt?

- Sincerely, Beefstew

I think he's more interested in the bulge in the front of the pants

[iLands]

Not a complaint (Thank you, Awesome work), but other reports I read had Gronk as the FB today, not Sylvester.

Supposedly, Gronk nabbed Manning's first pass today.

Keep up the fantastic work. I live for this!

[vandammage13]

Peyton-he looks like peyton manning. I focused on him a lot. Arm looks fine. Not strong, a little slow on speed. I think it will take him until the 2nd/3rd preseason game to get it all back. Just not quite fast enough on his passes I thought. He also looked to be taking his time and diagnosing plays a lot longer in the pocket. Tell you the truth, I think he was doing it on purpose. Some might say that he seemed a little slow or looked lost, but I got the feeling that he was just seeing what was happening. Seeing how the wr and such looked after a few seconds or scramble drills or timing. I say this because when he wanted to he would move the chains. He would hit the open man and do it rather quickly. Peyton as we all know, also likes the dump offs. He gets the LBs to drop deeper by staring down the TE or 7 yard in and then he throws it to the RB....These plays are going to move the chains and get us some big big yards. He literally makes room for the RB to turn and go. Manning also had a few nice look offs on the safties. Overall- manning looks like he getting back to being manning but not there yet, which is fine, he will. He really anticipates the receivers routes so well. I will get into that when I talk about the offense at the bottom.

This concerns me a bit..I was also watching some of the coverage this morning and noticed the same things... Manning looked a little strange throwing the ball (Not terrible by any means so don't get me wrong there, but it just didn't look quite the same...almost like he was kind of pushing the ball a bit).

Also, you stated you are anticipating it taking him to the 2nd/3rd preseason game to get it all back...But what reason do you have to think this?...It's been a year since he's underwent the knife for the last time, so why would he magically be better just 3-4 weeks from now?

I hope he's just taking it easy, but it still concerns me that he still has to take it easy at this point...that's all.

[underrated29]

Not a complaint (Thank you, Awesome work), but other reports I read had Gronk as the FB today, not Sylvester.

Supposedly, Gronk nabbed Manning's first pass today.

Keep up the fantastic work. I live for this!



Might be...I was behind the great wall of people. I could see players and their positions but rarely their numbers. If people say its gronk, then lets go with that.

[rationalfan]

Good to hear that about Warren. I knew the people wanting him cut were out of their minds. Can't wait to see him in games. Thanks for your report!

i'm with you. i still suspect a major reason people wanted him gone was his connection to new england. i'm glad he's in denver.

[underrated29]

This concerns me a bit..I was also watching some of the coverage this morning and noticed the same things... Manning looked a little strange throwing the ball (Not terrible by any means so don't get me wrong there, but it just didn't look quite the same...almost like he was kind of pushing the ball a bit).

Also, you stated you are anticipating it taking him to the 2nd/3rd preseason game to get it all back...But what reason do you have to think this?...It's been a year since he's underwent the knife for the last time, so why would he magically be better just 3-4 weeks from now?

I hope he's just taking it easy, but it still concerns me that he still has to take it easy at this point...that's all.



well i say this because I have had manning on my FF teams (obviously not last year) but the years prior. So I have watched a lot of his games and seen him throw it a bunch. The ball is not coming out as fast as it used to. It is not slow just not like him old self. I was basing this off of what we saw on video from mini camp to now and the improvement, and then what I would be doing. I think he is more concerned with the Offense, rhythm and timing then getting his arm back to 100%. Once the gloves are off and we are hitting in pre-season, I think he will just let it rock, and in the mean time taking it easy will allow the nerves to heal up fine- and let his arm warm up and ease into it. Similar to my situation in hockey when I broke my fingers and tore some ligaments. Practice I took it cool and just let things ease in- once I was in games though, my strength in my fingers returned real quick.

[rationalfan]

First of all there were a billion people today. You think tebow has a circus, dayum! This was the entire barnum and bailey show today. I saw two guys with a freaking cooler on wheels.

i've heard that this was the biggest crowd they've ever seen at a broncos TC practice. question: do you think the crowd would have been as large with tebow as the QB? remember, most of his fanboys didn't come out until tebow became the starter.

[SR]

Good write up dude. Reading the Post and NFL.com is one thing, but reading first hand accounts from someone who knows the team and looks at certain things is another. Keep the reports coming bromontana.

[underrated29]

i've heard that this was the biggest crowd they've ever seen at a broncos TC practice. question: do you think the crowd would have been as large with tebow as the QB? remember, most of his fanboys didn't come out until tebow became the starter.



I dont know man, there were a lot of them at camp last year...fab bois I mean. Hard to say, we also won the playoffs last year which had to bring in a lot of fans and then manning....Id say, that manning brings in more of them....people are just excited about it this year.


One kid standing behind me goes " Hey look, there is Dan Orlovsky he is the really tall QB elway drafted this year. He is going to be tight"- without manning and us in the playoffs Im sure that kid would never have shown. Seems to me like people are excited and just want to come out and see what it is like. Quite possibly could have been this large with tebow this year but I doubt it. People really think we have a shot, its all I heard from the many ill informed fans, like the teenager behind me and his dan orlovsky comment.

[vandammage13]

i've heard that this was the biggest crowd they've ever seen at a broncos TC practice. question: do you think the crowd would have been as large with tebow as the QB? remember, most of his fanboys didn't come out until tebow became the starter.


I dont know man, there were a lot of them at camp last year...fab bois I mean. Hard to say, we also won the playoffs last year which had to bring in a lot of fans and then manning....Id say, that manning brings in more of them....people are just excited about it this year.


One kid standing behind me goes " Hey look, there is Dan Orlovsky he is the really tall QB elway drafted this year. He is going to be tight"- without manning and us in the playoffs Im sure that kid would never have shown. Seems to me like people are excited and just want to come out and see what it is like. Quite possibly could have been this large with tebow this year but I doubt it. People really think we have a shot, its all I heard from the many ill informed fans, like the teenager behind me and his dan orlovsky comment.

Could also be a direct coorelation with the increasing popularity of the NFL. Even last year set Bronco's records for attendance in TC, so I look at it as more of a trend in overall NFL popularity than just the popularity of a single player (although an individual's popularity certainly contributes some).

More people get fired up about the game now, and currently even the Draft, OTA's and Preseason activities trump baseball, which wasn't the case in the past....The NFL is a beast.

[vandammage13]

well i say this because I have had manning on my FF teams (obviously not last year) but the years prior. So I have watched a lot of his games and seen him throw it a bunch. The ball is not coming out as fast as it used to. It is not slow just not like him old self. I was basing this off of what we saw on video from mini camp to now and the improvement, and then what I would be doing. I think he is more concerned with the Offense, rhythm and timing then getting his arm back to 100%. Once the gloves are off and we are hitting in pre-season, I think he will just let it rock, and in the mean time taking it easy will allow the nerves to heal up fine- and let his arm warm up and ease into it. Similar to my situation in hockey when I broke my fingers and tore some ligaments. Practice I took it cool and just let things ease in- once I was in games though, my strength in my fingers returned real quick.

Hope you are right, but it's not exactly a full proof explination.

I'll just remain cautiously optimistic going in...I'm not sold on the neck just yet.

Just heard Manning on the radio say he's not worried about taking any hits, which is a little comforting...But then again, I wouldn't expect him to say anything to the contrary.

Just still a bit worried because Manning's strength was always getting rid of the ball quickly and avoiding hits, and thus far, he's not shown that he's still able to do that..But maybe you are right in that he is just examining the offense and taking his time intentionally......We'll just have to wait and see.

[NightTerror218]

i've heard that this was the biggest crowd they've ever seen at a broncos TC practice. question: do you think the crowd would have been as large with tebow as the QB? remember, most of his fanboys didn't come out until tebow became the starter.

I think everyone is excited in general for this. It is also a nice distraction for people in Colorado. I think less would have shown up with Tebow as QB but more if he was the back up to Manning.

[BroncoWave]

Hope you are right, but it's not exactly a full proof explination.

I'll just remain cautiously optimistic going in...I'm not sold on the neck just yet.

Just heard Manning on the radio say he's not worried about taking any hits, which is a little comforting...But then again, I wouldn't expect him to say anything to the contrary.

Just still a bit worried because Manning's strength was always getting rid of the ball quickly and avoiding hits, and thus far, he's not shown that he's still able to do that..But maybe you are right in that he is just examining the offense and taking his time intentionally......We'll just have to wait and see.

Why is it confusing? If you knew anything about his neck condition you'd know that it cannot be made worse by a big hit. He is literally at no more risk for injury than any other QB in the NFL.

[Ziggy]

Thanks U29. I'll be going on Monday with my son. Looks like I'm going to need to get there really early to get a good seat in the shade.

[silkamilkamonico]

Great reports. Will be curious to see how Osweiler is looking running the offense.

[underrated29]

Thanks U29. I'll be going on Monday with my son. Looks like I'm going to need to get there really early to get a good seat in the shade.

yup, ill see ya there.

Ima get there real early just in case.



PS- Pola, sorry I tried to find you and called a couple times but it was packed. hope you had fun.

[Superchop 7]

Hanie was horrible ? I'm in shock........

[Chef Zambini]

Hanie was horrible ? I'm in shock........move him to safety.

[pnbronco]

yup, ill see ya there.

Ima get there real early just in case.

PS- Pola, sorry I tried to find you and called a couple times but it was packed. hope you had fun.

I actually dropped my phone in the car and didn't figure it out till I was trying to put it on silent. I had a great time and got under a tree. The crowd was nuts, it was the biggest ever. I heard 4300 on the radio. Yup I got there at 7:45 and had a heck of a time finding a parking place. Then I squeezed into a spot by the curve. I'm planning on going earlier to the next one. Just let me know if you'll be there. If not I'll take notes and try to write a report. I just enjoyed today and got some hand sewing done while waiting....:D

[pnbronco]

Great reports. Will be curious to see how Osweiler is looking running the offense.

He looks young and like someone that's trying to process a lot of info. It was just the first day so I'm sure it will slow down for him.

Was bummed that Weber had a tough time with 7/7 and the 2 minute drill. He looked much better in the warm ups, like he was grasping the play book.

[Tned]

post some pictures of the cheerleaders. . .

Damn straight.

[shank]

<3 u29

[threefolddead]

This is awesome! I love getting to read this stuff. I'm too far away to ever make it to training camp but I am about an hour from the Chiefs training camp. Its good to read your write up on this from someone who knows the team. Thanks a million

[Dzone]

I heard DJ Williams was off by himself jogging, not taking part in anything.
Got to hope that Kentucky Woodshed can step in and perform at a high level, he has a nose for the ball.. The Leviathan could also be player. Not sure how he dropped to the 6th round. We might have two Kentucky Tackling machines.
Is Nate Irving ever going to be any good? Is he a busted 3rd round?

Is Ryan Harris going to beat out Franklin?
Ty Warren made it through the whole day without tearing a groin and looked like the Warren of old.
Champ says Rahim Moore looks like a totally different player this year.

[BroncoNut]

Not 1 but 2 guys with wheeled coolers? OMG

[underrated29]

Not 1 but 2 guys with wheeled coolers? OMG

Coolers are not allowed nutsack. I have never seen anyone bring a cooler before in the past let alone a big ass wheeled cooler.

[shank]

u29. when are you and buff and i going to meet up to get drunk?

[Ravage!!!]

Why is it confusing? If you knew anything about his neck condition you'd know that it cannot be made worse by a big hit. He is literally at no more risk for injury than any other QB in the NFL.

EXACTLY!! its not a NECK injury. IT was a nerve injury, that was located in the neck. Peyton did NOT break his neck. He didn't miss time because his NECK was injured, and he has NO MORE risk of being injured than any other QB in the NFL. Taking a hit has NOTHING to do with his injury. NOTHING. The concern with the nerve was getting STRENGTH back into the arm. THere is ZERO concern about him taking a hit and it "re-injuring" anything. CAN NOT HAPPEN....period.

[underrated29]

u29. when are you and buff and i going to meet up to get drunk?



I dont know man but this needs to happen soon. Im sure it will happen at the saints game, but should before then.

[BroncoNut]

excellent report U29. thanks

[NightTrainLayne]

EXACTLY!! its not a NECK injury. IT was a nerve injury, that was located in the neck. Peyton did NOT break his neck. He didn't miss time because his NECK was injured, and he has NO MORE risk of being injured than any other QB in the NFL. Taking a hit has NOTHING to do with his injury. NOTHING. The concern with the nerve was getting STRENGTH back into the arm. THere is ZERO concern about him taking a hit and it "re-injuring" anything. CAN NOT HAPPEN....period.

Let's not tempt fate here. He can't re-injure it, but he surely can still get injured. He's not Superman.

:knockingonwood:

[Chef Zambini]

peyton never missed a game before last year.
he has a pretty good history of staying healthy and on the field.

[Ravage!!!]

Let's not tempt fate here. He can't re-injure it, but he surely can still get injured. He's not Superman.

:knockingonwood:


peyton never missed a game before last year.
he has a pretty good history of staying healthy and on the field.

ZAM... shut that dirty mouth!! :shocked:

[BroncoNut]

Let's not tempt fate here. He can't re-injure it, but he surely can still get injured. He's not Superman.

:knockingonwood:
that is true, but Ravage's statement is absolutely and undisputedly correct unless Peyton has suffered a neck injury that has not been publicly adknowledged.

[BroncoWave]

Let's not tempt fate here. He can't re-injure it, but he surely can still get injured. He's not Superman.

:knockingonwood:

Rav never said he can't get injured. He said he's at no more risk of it than any other QB in the league.

[BroncoNut]

Rav never said he can't get injured. He said he's at no more risk of it than any other QB in the league.

that's how I read it. I am pretty sure he also said his neck cannot be reinjured since the neck was never injured in the first place. the nerve was.

[BroncoWave]

that's how I read it. I am pretty sure he also said his neck cannot be reinjured since the neck was never injured in the first place. the nerve was.

That is correct. The ignorance on his condition is amazing.

[NightTerror218]

that's how I read it. I am pretty sure he also said his neck cannot be reinjured since the neck was never injured in the first place. the nerve was.

Not exactly. His has discs fused in his neck. From what i remember the disc pinch the nerve causing the arm weakness. Since the discs were fused they are suppose to be just as strong if not strong (supposedly). But his neck is not what they are worried about it whether his arm strength will return to its prior condition.

[Jsteve01]

thanks u29. this stuff is invaluable. Please post a picture Hochstein carrying his stuff out of the locker room when you have a chance tia

[BroncoNut]

keep it coming UR, pics if you can. thanks, your friend nut.