Inside The Denver Broncos Roster: Defensive Ends

[WARHORSE]

At long last, this series has finally reached the defensive side of the ball, where we will begin by dissecting the Denver Broncos' defensive line.
The defensive lines Denver has put out in recent years have been absolutely horrendous, and have been a real Achille's Heel for the defensive unit.

The Broncos were constantly changing personnel, coaches, and alignments to rectify their problems up front, but absolutely nothing was working.

The team even devoted 75 percent of its 2007 draft class to the defensive line, and the results have been less than impressive, to say the least.

New head coach Josh McDaniels has been absolutely hammered by fans, media, and critics alike for seemingly avoiding upgrading the Broncos' defensive line via free agency and the NFL Draft, but I would contend that the new regime in Denver has significantly upgraded this area of the team, particularly at defensive end.

In 2008, the average size for a Broncos' defensive end was 6'3" and 268 pounds, which includes the 6'6", 298-pound Nic Clemons.
For 2009, the average size for a defensive end in Denver heading to training camp is 6'4" and a whopping 298 pounds. That is a difference of 30 pounds for those keeping track at home.

I know, it does not necessarily mean that the talent has been significantly upgraded, but it cannot get much worse than the 2008 unit, and the Broncos have beefed up their frontline significantly. The run defense will be improved, and this crop of defensive ends will be a huge reason why.
According to McDaniels, there are no clear cut starters along the defensive line, which would explain why the Broncos will likely go into camp with eight players vying for a job.

One has to imagine that third year player Marcus Thomas will have a roster spot locked in thanks to his consistent play over the last two seasons.
Thomas has been one of the very few bright spots along the Denver defensive line, and may be the most versatile lineman the Broncos currently boast.

He started five games in his rookie campaign of 2007, and was penciled in as the starter for all 16 regular season contests in 2008. In that time frame, Thomas has 53 tackles and two interceptions.

Coming out of Florida three years ago, Thomas had his share of off-field issues, but scouts felt that the Broncos had nabbed a first round talent with their fourth round pick acquired from the Minnesota Vikings.
Thomas has yet to live up to that lofty potential, but he is steadily growing as a player, both figuratively and literally.

He had been checking in at around 290 pounds over the last couple of seasons before growing to 300 at the end of the 2008 campaign, and now he is all the way up to 305 pounds. Some feel the reason for this is that the Broncos would like to use his versatility at nose tackle, which is definitely a possibility if he can get up to 310 or 315 pounds by the time training camp begins.

Thomas will compete for a starting spot with Ryan McBean, a fourth round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft who was taken 11 picks after the Broncos selected Thomas.

McBean began his career with the Pittsburgh Steelers who were absolutely loaded at the defensive end position, and he was placed on their practice squad.

He had a couple of stints on Pittsburgh's active roster, but has only seen game action once in his short career. The Broncos feel he has potential to make an impact at defensive end, but the jury is still out.

One of the more intriguing players at the defensive end position for the Broncos is 26 year old undrafted rookie free agent and Iraq veteran Rulon Davis.

Davis, formerly of the Cal Golden Bears, joins the Broncos with a decorated background, one that includes being named after former Denver defensive lineman Rulon Jones.

Many fans are pushing hard for Davis to make the final roster, and for good reason. He has displayed great athleticism and versatility in his days at Cal, and the Broncos feel he can play at defensive end or possibly even outside linebacker in their new 3-4 defensive scheme.

Another rookie defensive lineman fans are excited about is former Northern Iowa star Everette Pedescleaux.
Pedescleaux is a giant of a man at 6'6" 305 pounds, and he has proven to be a very valuable asset throughout his football career in college, racking up 112 tackles, 11 sacks and six blocked kicks. He was also a part of the UNI basketball team early in his college days.

One familiar face along the defensive line and at defensive end will be seven year veteran Kenny Peterson, the eldest of the Broncos' defensive bigs.
Peterson, often referred to as "Patterson", was the only notable defensive free agent retained by the Broncos' new staff, and he appears to be an ideal fit for a 3-4 defensive end.

He has played both end and tackle in his three seasons with the Broncos, and last season played in all 16 games while recording 24 tackles, three sacks, and one fumble forced.
Peterson could very easily be one of the opening day starters at defensive end for Denver.

One player Broncos fans are most excited to get the chance to see play is second year pro Carlton Powell, a fifth round pick last season out of Virginia Tech.
Powell stands at 6'3" 300 pounds, and the former Hokie is regarded as a run-stopping specialist by scouts, so one can imagine why Broncos fans are eager to get this kid on the field.

He was placed last season on the physically unable to perform list, and never made it to the Broncos' active roster.
Another former mid-round draft pick that will compete for a defensive line spot is Matthias Askew, a fourth round pick of the Bengals in 2004.

Askew has spent two seasons out of football, and seems like a long-shot to make the Broncos' final roster.
Rounding out the list of defensive ends is the third-year pro Clemons, who saw his most significant playing time last season for the Broncos, recording 13 total tackles.

The enormous Clemons was signed to a future contract in 2008 by the Broncos after spending 2006 and 2007 out of football altogether.
He played in a career-high 10 games last season, and hopes to make the Broncos' final roster for the second straight year.

The defensive end position for the Denver Broncos is by no means flashy, but there is no doubt this unit is a significant upgrade over last season, especially when considering the hiring of former San Diego Chargers defensive line coach Wayne Nunnely, which cannot be overlooked.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/216435-inside-the-denver-broncos-roster-the-defensive-ends

[WARHORSE]

The article points out some reasons Ive had for my personal optimism in regarding the Broncos defense, mainly the defensive line.

Theres a reason Jonathan Vilma (just an example) is a dominant LBer in the 4-3 and a different player in the 3-4. Different responsibilities are placed on the perspective players.

The defensive linemen in the 3-4 are to be cloggers, and thats a heckuva lot easier to do when you know your job is simply this: Stop the run.

Also, a pass rush can be generated by these types of guys when their job is to put pressure but contain on obvious passing downs, letting the rush LBers apply the pressure, which the offense doesnt know where its going to come from. A sack from the DE, NT positions are more: let them come to you while you contain type sacks when these guys are running from the OLBs.

There is reason for optimism, and its an entirely new defense.


One Im looking forward to seeing play.

[G_Money]

I'm confused - the DE position is a "significant upgrade over last season" because this year's practice squad players, injury wrecks, late-rounders and UDFAs are more unknown quantities than last year's similar rejects? :huh:

Man, I really hope that's the case, and Ayers isn't just getting pub because no one else is standing out AT ALL as a starter.

~G

[dogfish]

I'm confused - the DE position is a "significant upgrade over last season" because this year's practice squad players, injury wrecks, late-rounders and UDFAs are more unknown quantities than last year's similar rejects? :huh:



~G


no, it's because this year's warm bodies are bigger than last year's warm bodies. . .

[OrangeHoof]

Gee, if you take Dumervil and Moss out of your DE corps, *of course* it will get bigger and heavier.

Warhorse is right about one thing, though, the DEs in the 3-4 (as well as the NT) are supposed to be cloggers, not playmakers, so less will be required of them. The four LBs have to make all the plays, do the blitzing, etc. So you then have to ask if the Broncos LBs are up to the challenge.

And, don't forget, the cloggers still need to clog and if they don't do that, the run defense will still be terrible.

[Superchop 7]

The problem is this.

You better have one helluva NT if you want to run a 3-4.

We don't.

[rcsodak]

I'm confused - the DE position is a "significant upgrade over last season" because this year's practice squad players, injury wrecks, late-rounders and UDFAs are more unknown quantities than last year's similar rejects? :huh:

Man, I really hope that's the case, and Ayers isn't just getting pub because no one else is standing out AT ALL as a starter.

~G

Kerry...is that you? :laugh:

[rcsodak]

The problem is this.

You better have one helluva NT if you want to run a 3-4.

We don't.

So you've been involved in the 'not-for-public-viewing' practices?

Please enlighten us more, obiwon! :rolleyes:

[broncofanatic1987]

Based on comments made by McDaniels and the players, the defensive line isn't going to just stand around and take up blockers. They are going to attack. It would seem that they are going to play a one gap defense. That would explain why they are looking at bigger OLBs and why 250 lb. Andra Davis is expected to start on the inside. The linebackers are going to have to be able to take on offensive linemen.

[Shazam!]

Who would've thought the Browncos were good compared to what we've seen.

[sneakers]

Who would've thought the Browncos were good compared to what we've seen.

Hhahaha!

My first reaction to the thread was: "We have a defensive line?" :lol:

[SR]

^^^ no shit!

[NameUsedBefore]

This defense is so going to get smashed.

[Dean]

Based on comments made by McDaniels and the players, the defensive line isn't going to just stand around and take up blockers. They are going to attack. It would seem that they are going to play a one gap defense. That would explain why they are looking at bigger OLBs and why 250 lb. Andra Davis is expected to start on the inside. The linebackers are going to have to be able to take on offensive linemen.

This year should be educational. I've never seen a 3-4 defense in which the nose was not a 2 gapper.

[Ravage!!!]

Based on comments made by McDaniels and the players, the defensive line isn't going to just stand around and take up blockers. They are going to attack. It would seem that they are going to play a one gap defense. That would explain why they are looking at bigger OLBs and why 250 lb. Andra Davis is expected to start on the inside. The linebackers are going to have to be able to take on offensive linemen.

I honestly hope you are wrong on everything here.... :beer:

[WARHORSE]

I'm confused - the DE position is a "significant upgrade over last season" because this year's practice squad players, injury wrecks, late-rounders and UDFAs are more unknown quantities than last year's similar rejects? :huh:

Man, I really hope that's the case, and Ayers isn't just getting pub because no one else is standing out AT ALL as a starter.

~G

If we stop the run, of course its a significant upgrade. Wouldnt you think?

Theres a reason you dont see 3-4 defensive linemen making the killer contracts. Theyre no names. Theyre no names cause theyre simply asked to anchor the line, stand their men up and play the gaps.

So taking a guy like Peterson out of 4-3 responsibilities and telling him to simply play the run makes him a valuable asset in your defense if he can do it.

The versatility of the defense really comes from the four linebackers you have playing around the three down linemen.

Now, if you have a guy as talented as Thomas, who is gaining muscle like that and hes up to 310 or so, hes an even bigger plus.

"I know, it does not necessarily mean that the talent has been significantly upgraded, but it cannot get much worse than the 2008 unit, and the Broncos have beefed up their frontline significantly. The run defense will be improved, and this crop of defensive ends will be a huge reason why."

So the talent isnt significantly upgraded..........but what is asked of the defensive line is significantly less..............hence the reason for optimism cause theyre going to be asked to stop the run, and stopping the run is easier for behemoths at 300 plus, rather than the average 268 lbs that we had last year.

Follow those 268 lb guys with LBers who weigh 230 lbs, which we had two starters at, and its a recipe for disaster.

Now we have alot bigger LBers, and stopping the run I dont see as nearly the hardship it was last year.

Stop the run, and the defense must pass.

They will be passing into a pretty good secondary.:coffee:


I cant wait.

[G_Money]

If we can stop the run, sure.

You must have missed Sam Adams being unable to stop the run at 350+. Being fat doesn't make you good at stopping the run, it makes you good at standing in one place on the field. And if you think the DL is asked to do less by taking on the same number of blockers with one fewer lineman to help them, I guess we have a different understanding of "less."

The point made about the NT earlier is valid - without a NT that can hold his own against double teams you actually can't stop the run with the DL. You can't. It leaves too many blockers free to get to the 2nd level and hold off the LBs.

Maybe we have that NT on the roster. I'd really like it if we did, and I think everybody knows I think Thomas is a good player. But if we don't, I don't care what our DEs weigh or how awesome they were at No-Name Pathetic School, it won't help.

OT's still outweigh most 3-4 DEs. It's not the weight mismatch it is against pass-rushing DEs, but all you're doing is hoping that the DEs can stuff the run and make the OL a little slower to react to the pass-rushing LB. And if the other team can carve you up by ramming the ball down your throat and then play-faking your secondary to death, where does that leave you?

Considering that few of our DL have actually played in a 3-4 and the likelihood of any of the rookies helping out is minimal at best for the first 2 years, it's not nearly as rosy to me as "see how many 300+ guys we have, obviously we'll be run-stuffers."

I don't have a problem with no-name DEs - I actually think it's nice that we should be paying money to positions that are more easily judged and letting the draft bring us DEs that'll fit the system, the way Pitt does it. I also don't have a problem with believing our D will be better than last year's D - I mean jeez, almost anything SHOULD be, right?

But we have to find a pass rush to make our high-priced secondary worth a damn, and we have to find a NT to make any progress at all in stopping the run. Finding some DEs who can play consistently would also be a bonus. That's the point of this year, to identify who on our DL rotation can play and what LB upgrades we need to enable QB pressure. Nolan is not a scheme genius, and I say this as a Nolan-as-DC supporter. He doesn't make his players better than they are. He doesn't castrate them, a la Slowik, but he's not gonna turn a bunch of middling players into a juggernaut, the way McDaniels did with the no-name receivers the Pats were rolling out there a coupla years ago. Nolan needs good players to be good, and at the moment I'm not sold that we have added those players on the DL.

Maybe we'll have it all figured out by the time the season starts.

I don't share your optimism that we will, that's all.

Hopefully Mt. Cody can stay healthy and we can trade our two 1st round picks to move up and take...oh, wait... *laughs* Maybe I'd better hope he's not as good this year so he falls to us.

~G

[broncofanatic1987]

I honestly hope you are wrong on everything here.... :beer:

Well, McDaniels said it himself. The defensive linemen aren't going to be standing around taking up blockers. They're going to attack. Maybe he was saying that just to be saying it or maybe he was serious. If he was serious, how the Broncos go about achieving that is still unknown. Maybe they will play a 2 gap defense and still attack. Maybe it will be a combination of things. The bottom line is, based on comments by McDaniels and the players, the defense, including the line, is going to be aggressive. That seems to necessarily require quick, mobile linemen who can penetrate. That seems to be the kind of linemen that the Broncos have.

[WARHORSE]

If we can stop the run, sure.

You must have missed Sam Adams being unable to stop the run at 350+. Being fat doesn't make you good at stopping the run, it makes you good at standing in one place on the field. And if you think the DL is asked to do less by taking on the same number of blockers with one fewer lineman to help them, I guess we have a different understanding of "less."

The point made about the NT earlier is valid - without a NT that can hold his own against double teams you actually can't stop the run with the DL. You can't. It leaves too many blockers free to get to the 2nd level and hold off the LBs.

Maybe we have that NT on the roster. I'd really like it if we did, and I think everybody knows I think Thomas is a good player. But if we don't, I don't care what our DEs weigh or how awesome they were at No-Name Pathetic School, it won't help.

OT's still outweigh most 3-4 DEs. It's not the weight mismatch it is against pass-rushing DEs, but all you're doing is hoping that the DEs can stuff the run and make the OL a little slower to react to the pass-rushing LB. And if the other team can carve you up by ramming the ball down your throat and then play-faking your secondary to death, where does that leave you?

Considering that few of our DL have actually played in a 3-4 and the likelihood of any of the rookies helping out is minimal at best for the first 2 years, it's not nearly as rosy to me as "see how many 300+ guys we have, obviously we'll be run-stuffers."

I don't have a problem with no-name DEs - I actually think it's nice that we should be paying money to positions that are more easily judged and letting the draft bring us DEs that'll fit the system, the way Pitt does it. I also don't have a problem with believing our D will be better than last year's D - I mean jeez, almost anything SHOULD be, right?

But we have to find a pass rush to make our high-priced secondary worth a damn, and we have to find a NT to make any progress at all in stopping the run. Finding some DEs who can play consistently would also be a bonus. That's the point of this year, to identify who on our DL rotation can play and what LB upgrades we need to enable QB pressure. Nolan is not a scheme genius, and I say this as a Nolan-as-DC supporter. He doesn't make his players better than they are. He doesn't castrate them, a la Slowik, but he's not gonna turn a bunch of middling players into a juggernaut, the way McDaniels did with the no-name receivers the Pats were rolling out there a coupla years ago. Nolan needs good players to be good, and at the moment I'm not sold that we have added those players on the DL.

Maybe we'll have it all figured out by the time the season starts.

I don't share your optimism that we will, that's all.

Hopefully Mt. Cody can stay healthy and we can trade our two 1st round picks to move up and take...oh, wait... *laughs* Maybe I'd better hope he's not as good this year so he falls to us.

~G

Points well taken. My optimism comes from we're a different team. Theres not a whole lot worse we could get in stopping the run than last year.

For me, Im not saying we will have a dominant defense. I am saying that our defense wont be like last years...........and thats good news. Real good news in my view. Therefore: Im optimistic.


The optimism is also because we havent seen anything at all of our new team, and I have a choice........think gloom.........or think otherwise.

Otherwise works best for me, especially since neither view will have an effect on what they eventually do.


We dont have the same defense as last year. Not even close.
LDE Ekuban


T63 D.Robertson
RT 79 M.Thomas
RDE92 E.Dumervil
WLB 55 D.Williams
MLB 58 N.Webster
SLB 51 J.Winborn
LCB 24 C.Bailey
RCB32 D.Bly
SS 39 V.Fox
FS 36 J.Barrett


Only the two in orange are guaranteed starters in this years defense.


And thats one thing Im VERY happy about. WOOT!:salute:

[T.K.O.]

were going to have the most improved defense in the league......but we might still suck !:D

[G_Money]

Only the two in orange are guaranteed starters in this years defense.

And thats one thing Im VERY happy about. WOOT!

Can't argue with that. :salute:

Removing Manuel, McCree, Lowry, Webster, Winborn, etc from the D can only help, and IMO our defensive coaching staff is much improved top to bottom over last year, which may make as great an impact as different (and hopefully better) personnel.

We have a D-Line coach who can actually teach, a secondary coach who likes aggressive play and not 15 yard cushions, a LB coach who gets unreal production from what appear to be fairly ordinary players, and a DC who better understands that "scheme" means "plan to stop the opposition" and not "paper with which to wipe one's ass."

None of that means we have the right DL (or LB, or even DBs) on our team, but I don't expect a one-year fix. Find half the right defenders this year and then lock down the holes next year.

There's apparently this thing called "progress" that's available to other team's defenses as time progresses.

I'm hopeful we can find and harness this thing.

~G

[Lonestar]

Well, McDaniels said it himself. The defensive linemen aren't going to be standing around taking up blockers. They're going to attack. Maybe he was saying that just to be saying it or maybe he was serious. If he was serious, how the Broncos go about achieving that is still unknown. Maybe they will play a 2 gap defense and still attack. Maybe it will be a combination of things. The bottom line is, based on comments by McDaniels and the players, the defense, including the line, is going to be aggressive. That seems to necessarily require quick, mobile linemen who can penetrate. That seems to be the kind of linemen that the Broncos have.



add smart, stronger and reactive to that.. description..


Josh said when moving her we needed to be bigger, stronger, faster, more versatile and smarter than we have been..

And that is what I see with all his moves so far.. the dinky RB's of the past under 205 are gone, he has moved to add weight to that area would guess without looking those average are now in the 220 range and if you add in Hillis to that that goes up again..

I like adding 30+ pounds to the DE area.. and I suspect our NT will come in at 315+ not sloppy fat 350 but 315-330 of solid mass. One of the reason I was so high on Buckley a few years back.. a lean muscle mass at about 310 at the time.. When he was running his 40's you could see the guys Ab's.. Get me 5 or so guys like that that can rotate on the DL and we are gonna make noise on D..


What do we have Well I guess we will see this fall..

I will state this again for those that have not seen it..

All I am looking for this year a is a team that shows up prepared for every game, one that does not quit when behind, one that has pride going on the field and does not lay down at Mile High..

Give me that and I suspect we will win alot of games..

I am not expecting a great year this year because of all the changes.. about 50% of the players from last year will not be with us this season.. 80% of the coaches are gone and we will have 100% change in schemes..

coupled with a brutal schedule If the win more than 5-6 this season it will because the change at HC was a great move..

[Lonestar]

Can't argue with that. :salute:

Removing Manuel, McCree, Lowry, Webster, Winborn, etc from the D can only help, and IMO our defensive coaching staff is much improved top to bottom over last year, which may make as great an impact as different (and hopefully better) personnel.

We have a D-Line coach who can actually teach, a secondary coach who likes aggressive play and not 15 yard cushions, a LB coach who gets unreal production from what appear to be fairly ordinary players, and a DC who better understands that "scheme" means "plan to stop the opposition" and not "paper with which to wipe one's ass."

None of that means we have the right DL (or LB, or even DBs) on our team, but I don't expect a one-year fix. Find half the right defenders this year and then lock down the holes next year.

There's apparently this thing called "progress" that's available to other team's defenses as time progresses.
I'm hopeful we can find and harness this thing.

~G



this is how I see it the safeties are old or almost rookies in most cases so I see alot of good on the very distant horizon.. if the newbies watch and learn from the old man then we are on the road to long term success all the while with much improved play this year..

same thing applies to CB with champ as an example the newbies will have a great player to learn from and be able to to his place in a few years..

as for LB it looks promising although I just do not see DJ as an IMLB perhaps he will totally surprise me he is a WLB in a 4-3 and will be a fish out of water in this one IMHO.. not sure about davis and I do not think the rookie from last year got enough time on the field to know where either of them can do 3-4.. great athletes but not sure if they are 3-4 LB either.

DL who the hell knows if they can do it..

I just hope like you said if we can find 5 starters out of the mix we have and then draft or FA a couple more next year.. this should be a comparable D to that of NE strong enough to allow the O to win games..

[OrangeHoof]

The linebackers are going to have to be able to take on offensive linemen.

Hmmmm. Five offensive linemen vs. three defensive lineman.

Good catch, Sherlock.

[OrangeHoof]

This defense is so going to get smashed.

Both during and after the game. :beer:

[WARHORSE]

Can't argue with that. :salute:

Removing Manuel, McCree, Lowry, Webster, Winborn, etc from the D can only help, and IMO our defensive coaching staff is much improved top to bottom over last year, which may make as great an impact as different (and hopefully better) personnel.

We have a D-Line coach who can actually teach, a secondary coach who likes aggressive play and not 15 yard cushions, a LB coach who gets unreal production from what appear to be fairly ordinary players, and a DC who better understands that "scheme" means "plan to stop the opposition" and not "paper with which to wipe one's ass."

None of that means we have the right DL (or LB, or even DBs) on our team, but I don't expect a one-year fix. Find half the right defenders this year and then lock down the holes next year.

There's apparently this thing called "progress" that's available to other team's defenses as time progresses.

I'm hopeful we can find and harness this thing.

~G

Looking at the defensive coordinators we've had the past few years, Im looking forward to Nolan. He has all around success on his resume in different schemes, and that comes from using the players to their abilities imo.

What I believe to be what we have in our corner most of all, is McDaniels mantra of being prepared for all situations, and improving week to week. We all saw this from Cassell last year. No suffering 'Woe is me....Tom Brady is gone'........shout outs coming from that team.

Keep working hard........keep trying to get better........keep learning your craft.........keep trusting each other.........and most of all.........KEEP PLAYING.

I like his undetered devotion to the knowledge that hard work pays off.......believe it.

I think the mentality that........ regardless of a win or loss, you still come in and prepare the same: To the utmost..........is gonna pay off. Can it pay off this year?

Yes, I think it can.

We have an offense that stacks up with any in the NFL with regards to talent.

We have one of the best offensive lines in football, and taking into consideration that last year was the first time they all played together, I dont think Im going out on a limb to say that they can be CONSIDERABLY better, in fact, downright dominant, given a year under their belts.

I look for this line to become a BEAST in the NFL.

BEAST.

[T.K.O.]

brian dawkins is going to FIRE UP this d like we havent seen in years....count on it !
he wont put up with any of the lazy b.s. we've been watching !!!!!!
watch out for the X-factor on denvers D this year !:salute: