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View Full Version : If Denver trades Brandon Marshall, no more defections..



Lonestar
07-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Point 5: If Denver trades Brandon Marshall, it's not going to lead to more forced defections by other players on the roster.

Back in mid-June, I went on record encouraging Broncos team owner Pat Bowlen to trade his star wide receiver.

"Bowlen would be wise to move Marshall now while he still has some perceived trade value. Because after Marshall's next screw-up, Denver's pool of potential trade partners will shrink even further," I said in this feature at Scout.com.

Since then, others have stated that, on the heels of bowing to Jay Cutler's will and trading him to Chicago, allowing Marshall out of Denver would be a devastating move that would send a message to the rest of the roster that they could demand a trade at will.

That's nonsense.

Cutler and Marshall have been unique situations. Name one other player who has the established star power, youth and potential to stage a coup of that magnitude in Denver. And it's really debatable whether or not Marshall even has that leverage after his plethora of off-the-field shenanigans that may reflect some deep emotional and maturity issues.






While Cutler may have bullied his way out of Denver, trading Marshall is a strategically smart move, and the Broncos can position it with the team that way once a deal is done and the trouble-magnet has packed his bags. They can make it clear that Marshall didn't force this deal, that they were averting a disaster by unloading a chronic problem player and an ongoing distraction to the team. The rest of the team may even release a collective sigh of relief, just as many of the Cowboys did after Terrell Owens was released.

Right now, Denver has to publicly state that they want to hold onto Marshall to protect whatever trade value remains. But as soon as another team is foolish enough to pony up a future first-round pick or a package of existing talent that includes a capable starter at wide receiver to bridge the team this year, the Broncos should take it and run.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9768964/7-Points:-NFC-North-has-interesting-QBs,-for-once

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07-05-2009, 02:30 PM
I agree with the guy. If someone dangles a first-rounder, take it.

Trouble is, I seriously doubt anybody is going to do it at this point. Marshall is a
Bronco, like it or not, and for whatever the Broncos want to pay him for now.
He is going nowhere without the FO's blessings.

Marshall might as well learn that and show up. :coffee:

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broncohead
07-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Tbh I would trade Marshall for a 2nd rd. pick. There is no more "what if he stays out of trouble" with him. He will get into trouble again it's just a matter of when. And WHEN he does he won't be seeing the field. How does that help us? Take the best offer you can get and take it to move this team forward. Marshall will cause problems in the locker room (if he comes back) because he obviously doesn't want to be here. Trading Marshall will make more sense then trading Cutler imo.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 02:57 PM
I hope he's right, but it'd be foolish to assume that there aren't more players that'd like tell the Broncos to pound sand if this season is not successful after they've shown so little regard for their best players.

You don't think Clady/Harris/Kuper and their agents have taken notice of the fact that the Broncos are willing to pay more for a washed up Safety who's never done a damn thing for this team than they are one of it's rising stars?

You don't think that, had it not been for a knee injury, DJ Williams might be thinking that he caught another bad break by signing a contract before this whirlpool of bullshit?

I suppose you think Champ Bailey is convinced that they're heading in the right direction?

You don't think the Broncos are prepared for life without these players (Or at least THINK they are)?

Don't be surprised if there are more shocking moves with this regime, apparently they actually believe that it's not about the players.......

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07-05-2009, 03:01 PM
Tbh I would trade Marshall for a 2nd rd. pick. There is no more "what if he stays out of trouble" with him. He will get into trouble again it's just a matter of when. And WHEN he does he won't be seeing the field. How does that help us? Take the best offer you can get and take it to move this team forward. Marshall will cause problems in the locker room (if he comes back) because he obviously doesn't want to be here. Trading Marshall will make more sense then trading Cutler imo.

I can understand your opinion that Marshall has exhausted all his chances.

However, I've never seen nor heard where he is any kind of problem in the Locker Room . . .

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Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 03:02 PM
Personally, I think it says a lot that players are trying to get out, that's Pre-Wisenhunt Arizona Cardinals territory, maybe if Broncos fans weren't so defensive they'd be alarmed by that.......

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07-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Personally, I think it says a lot that players are trying to get out, that's Arizona Cardinals territory, maybe if Broncos fans weren't so defensive they'd be alarmed by that.......

Yes, my friend, that is what you personally think.

However, I've never heard anything to that effect, either.

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Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Yes, my friend, that is what you personally think.

However, I've never heard anything to that effect, either.

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You never heard that players are trying to get out? By that I mean Cutler and now Marshall, top, I think we can agree that both are/were trying to get out.

I think that say's as much about the team as it does about the players.......

DenBronx
07-05-2009, 03:23 PM
trade his ass.

Superchop 7
07-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Marshall has an upside fella's.

You guys are just a bunch of drama queens that think change is "always" for the better.

Well, it isn't.

Elite talent doesn't grow on tree's.

To win, it takes players.

DenBronx
07-05-2009, 03:37 PM
Marshall has an upside fella's.

You guys are just a bunch of drama queens that think change is "always" for the better.

Well, it isn't.

Elite talent doesn't grow on tree's.

To win, it takes players.


i agree chop but from a business point of view you should ask what's best for the team. if marshall slips even one more time he's done....for at least 8 games no matter where he plays. marshall, a 4th rounder, is a rarity talent wise but his off field troubles have really put us in a bad situation. how to you pay a guy a blockbuster deal if you don't know for sure he will keep his head screwed on straight? makes sense from every angle...marshall is a beast no doubt but if we can deal cutler then we can surely deal brandon "nerve ending" marshall.

dogfish
07-05-2009, 03:41 PM
Name one other player who has the established star power, youth and potential to stage a coup of that magnitude in Denver.


ryan clady, by the end of the year. . . .

broncohead
07-05-2009, 03:44 PM
Marshall has an upside fella's.

You guys are just a bunch of drama queens that think change is "always" for the better.

Well, it isn't.

Elite talent doesn't grow on tree's.

To win, it takes players.

That is true but Marshall will get into trouble again. What will we do when we have invested in him and he doesn't play? That will look real stupid on our part.

topscribe
07-05-2009, 03:53 PM
You never heard that players are trying to get out? By that I mean Cutler and now Marshall, top, I think we can agree that both are/were trying to get out.

I think that say's as much about the team as it does about the players.......

Actually, it seems Marshall is more about receiving money than he is about
leaving, despite his request. But he has absolutely no power to do anything
about it unless, as I mentioned, the FO consents.



Marshall has an upside fella's.

You guys are just a bunch of drama queens that think change is "always" for the better.

Well, it isn't.

Elite talent doesn't grow on tree's.

To win, it takes players.

That is why I implied I would consider nothing less than a first-rounder, and
maybe at that from a team who is drafting high.

On the other hand, if they draft a first-rounder in lieu of Marshall, they still
have to pay that first-rounder . . . much more than what Marshall stands to
make this year. So why trade? :noidea:



ryan clady, by the end of the year. . . .

Yes, and there may be a half-dozen other players who could be in that
position by the end of the year . . .

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Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 04:04 PM
Actually, it seems Marshall is more about receiving money than he is about
leaving, despite his request. But he has absolutely no power to do anything
about it unless, as I mentioned, the FO consents.




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At one point I would have been inclined to agree with you, but I no longer take anything for granted, and I believe that, given the choice, he'd prefer to make his millions elsewhere.......and that, given the choice, the Broncos would prefer that too.......

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07-05-2009, 04:07 PM
At one point I would have been inclined to agree with you, but I no longer take anything for granted, and I believe that, given the choice, he'd prefer to make his millions elsewhere.......and that, given the choice, the Broncos would prefer that too.......

Well, he doesn't have that choice.

And I'm hoping the Broncos aren't so stupid as to give him one . . .

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rcsodak
07-05-2009, 05:04 PM
I hope he's right, but it'd be foolish to assume that there aren't more players that'd like tell the Broncos to pound sand if this season is not successful after they've shown so little regard for their best players.

You don't think Clady/Harris/Kuper and their agents have taken notice of the fact that the Broncos are willing to pay more for a washed up Safety who's never done a damn thing for this team than they are one of it's rising stars?

You don't think that, had it not been for a knee injury, DJ Williams might be thinking that he caught another bad break by signing a contract before this whirlpool of bullshit?

I suppose you think Champ Bailey is convinced that they're heading in the right direction?

You don't think the Broncos are prepared for life without these players (Or at least THINK they are)?

Don't be surprised if there are more shocking moves with this regime, apparently they actually believe that it's not about the players.......

You evidently don't read what people IN THE KNOW are saying about him.

I'm still waiting for you to tell all of us who your team REALLY is, because I find it harder and harder to believe it's this one.

ANYBODY can find negatives in life. It's considered the easiest aspect of living.

:coffee:

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 05:37 PM
You evidently don't read what people IN THE KNOW are saying about him.

I'm still waiting for you to tell all of us who your team REALLY is, because I find it harder and harder to believe it's this one.

ANYBODY can find negatives in life. It's considered the easiest aspect of living.

:coffee:

I don't give a **** what you believe, rc, so don't hold your breath waiting.

As for Dawkins, I don't believe everything I read and he's 35 years old, the next good season has could be his last, if he hasn't had his last good season already, so if I'm jumping the gun with Dawkins it's not by much. And if you believe anything, believe that the current players know this too.......

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07-05-2009, 05:59 PM
I hope he's right, but it'd be foolish to assume that there aren't more players that'd like tell the Broncos to pound sand if this season is not successful after they've shown so little regard for their best players.

You don't think Clady/Harris/Kuper and their agents have taken notice of the fact that the Broncos are willing to pay more for a washed up Safety who's never done a damn thing for this team than they are one of it's rising stars?

You don't think that, had it not been for a knee injury, DJ Williams might be thinking that he caught another bad break by signing a contract before this whirlpool of bullshit?

I suppose you think Champ Bailey is convinced that they're heading in the right direction?

You don't think the Broncos are prepared for life without these players (Or at least THINK they are)?

Don't be surprised if there are more shocking moves with this regime, apparently they actually believe that it's not about the players.......

Yes, Link, but those other players and their agents are also aware that
Dawkins hasn't been in constant scrapes with the law since his college days,
either . . .

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Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 06:11 PM
Yes, Link, but those other players and their agents are also aware that
Dawkins hasn't been in constant scrapes with the law since his college days,
either . . .

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I'm not so sure it makes a difference, he's still old as **** and hasn't done a damn thing on the field for this team, whereas on the field, I would think that Marshall has at least played his way onto the negotiating table in the eyes of his teammates.

As it pertains to Marshall's next contract, let's not pretend that that is an insurmountable obstacle or that the Broncos would be stuck with a Kenyon Martin contract.......

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07-05-2009, 06:41 PM
I'm not so sure it makes a difference, he's still old as **** and hasn't done a damn thing on the field for this team, whereas on the field, I would think that Marshall has at least played his way onto the negotiating table in the eyes of his teammates.

As it pertains to Marshall's next contract, let's not pretend that that is an insurmountable obstacle or that the Broncos would be stuck with a Kenyon Martin contract.......

Well, as I mentioned, it dawned on me that an untried, unproven first-round
draft choice would, by default, draw a princely salary and signing bonus. Sure,
Marshall's future is somewhat shaky in some instances, but how much more
unpredictable is it than that of a rookie?

I can see a contract with the appropriate self-protective clauses in it. Make
him an offer in that form with a substantial raise, and, if he argues against
anything more than the money itself, then he can either play or go home and
watch the games on TV.

Maybe Tater can get him on with Verizon or something . . .

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Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 06:53 PM
I'm not so sure it makes a difference, he's still old as **** and hasn't done a damn thing on the field for this team, whereas on the field, I would think that Marshall has at least played his way onto the negotiating table in the eyes of his teammates.

As it pertains to Marshall's next contract, let's not pretend that that is an insurmountable obstacle or that the Broncos would be stuck with a Kenyon Martin contract.......

Brandon has one year left on his contract - Bowlen has already told him - perform on the field, stay out of trouble off the field, and you will GET your new contract with the Broncos next year. Pretty clear.

Nomad
07-05-2009, 07:15 PM
Brandon has one year left on his contract - Bowlen has already told him - perform on the field, stay out of trouble off the field, and you will GET your new contract with the Broncos next year. Pretty clear.

Thanks DN! It is pretty clear especially coming from the person that signs the checks and owns the team.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Brandon has one year left on his contract - Bowlen has already told him - perform on the field, stay out of trouble off the field, and you will GET your new contract with the Broncos next year. Pretty clear.

The Denver Broncos have extended contracts with one year remaining before, especially with players that have already performed on the field.

I see Denver's point, but I also see Marshall's point, both are pretty clear.......

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 07:20 PM
The Denver Broncos have extended contracts with one year remaining before, especially with players that have already performed on the field.

I see Denver's point, but I also see Marshall's point, both are pretty clear.......

I realize that the Broncos have extended contracts with one year remaining before; however, I can not remember any player receiving them, with the off field track record Brandon has, and a trial still to come. In my estimation, he ought to just play out his remaining year, keep himself clean, and then go for it next year.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 08:02 PM
I realize that the Broncos have extended contracts with one year remaining before; however, I can not remember any player receiving them, with the off field track record Brandon has, and a trial still to come. In my estimation, he ought to just play out his remaining year, keep himself clean, and then go for it next year.

I don't disagree with your estimation, but Marshall seems to, and we're not talking about what we think he should do as much as we're talking about what we think the Broncos should do or shouldn't do.

Whether it's this off-season or next, Marshall's situation is the same, he's alway's going to have his past to answer for and with any contract he signs, the negotiations should start there.

I don't envy the Broncos on this one, this is going to be a tough situation, but Marshall has done enough to at least get them to the table, and aside from his health, the Broncos have no reason to play chicken, especially if that's going to cost them another talented player.......

broncofaninfla
07-05-2009, 08:05 PM
WE hold all of the leverage with Marshall, he'll be back and he'll have to play his *ss off to get the $$$ he wants. We are a better team with him this year.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't disagree with your estimation, but Marshall seems to, and we're not talking about what we think he should do as much as we're talking about what we think the Broncos should do or shouldn't do.

Whether it's this off-season or next, Marshall's situation is the same, he's alway's going to have his past to answer for and with any contract he signs, the negotiations should start there.

I don't envy the Broncos on this one, this is going to be a tough situation, but Marshall has done enough to at least get them to the table, and aside from his health, the Broncos have no reason to play chicken, especially if that's going to cost them another talented player.......

With Bowlen telling Marshall to perform on the field this coming year, stay clean off the field, and you will get your contract, that does not sound like Bowlen is expecting him to answer for his past, that does not indicate that Bowlen is playing chicken - he is only telling Brandon, without really saying it - "GROW UP". Does Brandon have no confidence in himself that he can grow up and not get in trouble, so he wants the money before it happens again? Brandon is the one who has caused this situation for himself, not the Broncos.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 08:39 PM
With Bowlen telling Marshall to perform on the field this coming year, stay clean off the field, and you will get your contract, that does not sound like Bowlen is expecting him to answer for his past, that does not indicate that Bowlen is playing chicken - he is only telling Brandon, without really saying it - "GROW UP". Does Brandon have no confidence in himself that he can grow up and not get in trouble, so he wants the money before it happens again? Brandon is the one who has caused this situation for himself, not the Broncos.

I can't tell you why Marshall wants his extension now, I would guess that injuries have as much to do with it as his supposed lack of confidence in his maturity level. And if you believe the rumors that his hip has something to do with his holdout, than the Broncos did have a hand in causing this situation for Marshall.

I wouldn't blame Marshall for not trusting Bowlen when he assures him that he'll get a new contract, so this is a game of chicken considering the contract wouldn't be any different now than in 2010.

If that's what Bowlen told Marshall, that is just playing hardball, that's a good way to lose players.......

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07-05-2009, 08:47 PM
I can't tell you why Marshall wants his extension now, I would guess that injuries have as much to do with it as his supposed lack of confidence in his maturity level. And if you believe the rumors that his hip has something to do with his holdout, than the Broncos did have a hand in causing this situation for Marshall.

I wouldn't blame Marshall for not trusting Bowlen when he assures him that he'll get a new contract, so this is a game of chicken considering the contract wouldn't be any different now than in 2010.

If that's what Bowlen told Marshall, that is just playing hardball, that's a good way to lose players.......

I don't know how that's going to happen (losing Marshall), unless the Broncos
want to lose him. As has been reiterated, the Broncos hold allllllll the cards.
If Marshall sits, he loses his pay, and he loses his FA status next year. It
makes no difference whether or not he wants out. It's only whether or not the
Broncos want him out. Marshall might just go and consult with Oh Choe Sinkhole
or Boldin about that.

Since I suspect those in the FO are not utter morons, I would expect that
they have learned from the Cutler saga, and nobody else will bully them from
here on out. :coffee:

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Lonestar
07-05-2009, 08:49 PM
The Denver Broncos have extended contracts with one year remaining before, especially with players that have already performed on the field.

I see Denver's point, but I also see Marshall's point, both are pretty clear.......


perhaps mikey promised the wonder kin that they would get a new contract this coming year.. before they fired him for malfeasance.. This is why they thought they needed more money..

If someone is blowing smoke up your skirt all the time and suddenly the smoke stop and someone says hey your pretty good but the slate is clean and you have to earn a spot on this team they get cranky..

what denver did in the past went out the door when the new sheriff came to town.. everyone got set back to GO and now have to play with different rules..

Happens like that in every job I've had.. I suspect it happened each time jay and BM moved to a new team from JHS to HS to college to the pros no one gets tenure in the NFL. because they have a could of good seasons..

time to grow up and grow a pair..

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 08:50 PM
I can't tell you why Marshall wants his extension now, I would guess that injuries have as much to do with it as his supposed lack of confidence in his maturity level. And if you believe the rumors that his hip has something to do with his holdout, than the Broncos did have a hand in causing this situation for Marshall.

I wouldn't blame Marshall for not trusting Bowlen when he assures him that he'll get a new contract, so this is a game of chicken considering the contract wouldn't be any different now than in 2010.

If that's what Bowlen told Marshall, that is just playing hardball, that's a good way to lose players.......

Maybe you feel that Bowlen is playing hardball, when he tells Brandon to stay out of trouble - but I don't consider it that. I sure don't want the Broncos to turn into another "JUST WIN BABY" team - i.e. - don't care what you do off the field, don't care what embarrassment your off field actions bring to the Broncos - "JUST WIN BABY"

And I was referring to the Broncos not having a hand in Brandon's off field actions. That is why he is not getting a contract extension this year.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 09:09 PM
perhaps mikey promised the wonder kin that they would get a new contract this coming year.. before they fired him for malfeasance.. This is why they thought they needed more money..

If someone is blowing smoke up your skirt all the time and suddenly the smoke stop and someone says hey your pretty good but the slate is clean and you have to earn a spot on this team they get cranky..

what denver did in the past went out the door when the new sheriff came to town.. everyone got set back to GO and now have to play with different rules..

Happens like that in every job I've had.. I suspect it happened each time jay and BM moved to a new team from JHS to HS to college to the pros no one gets tenure in the NFL. because they have a could of good seasons..

time to grow up and grow a pair..

Telling a team to pay me or pound sand doesn't take balls? Cutler and Marshall have the balls to look out for themselves regardless of tenure, and they are dealing with grown up issues, you just don't like the situation other than the fact that it gives you yet another reason to bash "Mikey".

And trust me, when my best employees have asked me for a raise, I don't give them the "Play and grow up" routine, so if real life is the context you want to use, I suggest you play the pathetic economy angle instead of just harping on off field issues that can be addressed.......because you and I both know that Cutler, Marshall and Broncos are dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances than you and I.......

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 09:15 PM
Telling a team to pay me or pound sand doesn't take balls? Cutler and Marshall have the balls to look out for themselves regardless of tenure, and they are dealing with grown up issues, you just don't like the situation other than the fact that it gives you yet another reason to bash "Mikey".

And trust me, when my best employees have asked me for a raise, I don't give them the "Play and grow up" routine, so if real life is the context you want to use, I suggest you play the pathetic economy angle instead of just harping on off field issues that can be addressed.......because you and I both know that Cutler, Marshall and Broncos are dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances than you and I.......

Have any of your employees that have ask you for a raise, been in trouble, away from your workplace, many times? I am sure most bosses, if they had an employee like that, would have them in their office telling them to shape up or ship out. And in that same conversation, it would definitely take more guts than most have for the employee to ask for a raise at the same time.

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07-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Telling a team to pay me or pound sand doesn't take balls?

Might as well, Link.

I don't think it takes much brains . . . :coffee:

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Lonestar
07-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Have any of your employees that asked you for a raise, been in trouble, away from your workplace, many times?


Thanks for dealing with this:salute::salute:

I'm done trying with him.. NO matter how hard one tries to get through to some one that hates it just does not sink in.. reasonable posters can be logical..

I only wished that as a mod I could place folks on IGGY.. Guess I will have to skip some folks posts as they mean nothing to me..

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Maybe you feel that Bowlen is playing hardball, when he tells Brandon to stay out of trouble - but I don't consider it that. I sure don't want the Broncos to turn into another "JUST WIN BABY" team - i.e. - don't care what you do off the field, don't care what embarrassment your off field actions bring to the Broncos - "JUST WIN BABY"

And I was referring to the Broncos not having a hand in Brandon's off field actions. That is why he is not getting a contract extension this year.

The "Just Win Like Boy Scouts Baby" team hasn't exactly taken the NFL by storm, so I sure don't want the Broncos to turn into that team either. When all is said and done, if the Broncos sign Brandon Marshall to a new contract, they'll still have signed a player with that kind of history, so the posturing was just a negotiating tactic at best.

And Marshall's wanting an extension now has also been attributed to how the Broncos handled his hip injury, and he is holding out because he wants an extension, so they did have a part in creating this standoff, however small that part may be.......

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 09:30 PM
The "Just Win Like Boy Scouts Baby" team hasn't exactly taken the NFL by storm, so I sure don't want the Broncos to turn into that team either. When all is said and done, if the Broncos sign Brandon Marshall to a new contract, they'll still have signed a player with that kind of history, so the posturing was just a negotiating tactic at best.

And Marshall's wanting an extension now has also been attributed to how the Broncos handled his hip injury, and he is holding out because he wants an extension, so they did have a part in creating this standoff, however small that part may be.......

Staying out of trouble can make people forget previous trouble.

Obviously Marshall can not be all that upset with how the Broncos handled his hip injury, if he wants an extension now with that same team.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 09:30 PM
Thanks for dealing with this:salute::salute:

I'm done trying with him.. NO matter how hard one tries to get through to some one that hates it just does not sink in.. reasonable posters can be logical..

I only wished that as a mod I could place folks on IGGY.. Guess I will have to skip some folks posts as they mean nothing to me..

Turn back the clocks to the Jake Wars and you had nothing but good things to say about my reasonable posts.

Put me on "IGGY", Jr, it'll be our little secret, I sure could use a vacation from your hypocrisy.

"As no roads are so rough as those that have just been mended, so no sinners are so intolerant as those that have just turned saints".......

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Staying out of trouble can make people forget previous trouble.

Obviously Marshall can not be all that upset with how the Broncos handled his hip injury, if he wants an extension now with that same team.

But that injury could have something to do with wanting it NOW and not when the Broncos get around to it.......

Lonestar
07-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Staying out of trouble can make people forget previous trouble.

Obviously Marshall can not be all that upset with how the Broncos handled his hip injury, if he wants an extension now with that same team.

the hip is all bovine excrement something for the lawyers/agent to blow about..

we all know it was and always has been MONEY for mar$$$hall..


see the signature that follows a


#1 Or Best Offer..

tumbana
07-05-2009, 09:44 PM
Marshall wants the money NOW. The Broncos don't want to give it NOW.

Marshall knows he could lose millions due to a drop in production whether it's because of his hip, the new system not getting as many balls his way, Kyle Orton being the new QB, or if he gets in trouble again. He can make a better case now that he has put up back to back seasons of 100+ catches and over 1200 plus yards, but he still has a pending trial and is coming off hip surgery, so he loses a bit there.

The Broncos want him to prove he can stay out of trouble, that he can perform as well in the new regime, and that he is healthy. They don't want to pay him now and apparently have the leverage. But not as much as people think? Marshall is too big a part of their offense and too talented to not have. He could play a huge role in Orton's success as well as everyone else's since he demands opposing defenses' attentions. Heck, maybe Marshall doesn't care if he loses money and wants to make a point, so he just sits out the whole time? As long as he returns 8 games in, he gets paid anyway and if he misses all of training camp, there will be no point since there is no chemistry and he won't know the offense a well.

Maybe Marshall is being sincere that he wants to change something in his life? Maybe he is doing this because money now is the only thing that can make him handle staying and handling whatever problem he has? Did Bowlen really say goodbye like Marshall stated on his blog?

A LOT of questions and these next few weeks will be very interesting. It's a sticky situation for both sides. Will the Broncos blink?

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 09:48 PM
Marshall has no bargaining chips and once again is showing that he's an idiot.

Going on trial in the fall that could cause a four to eight game suspension and coming off hip surgery...yeah, that's when to ask for a raise...lol.

Lonestar
07-05-2009, 09:52 PM
Marshall wants the money NOW. The Broncos don't want to give it NOW.

Marshall knows he could lose millions due to a drop in production whether it's because of his hip, the new system not getting as many balls his way, Kyle Orton being the new QB, or if he gets in trouble again. He can make a better case now that he has put up back to back seasons of 100+ catches and over 1200 plus yards, but he still has a pending trial and is coming off hip surgery, so he loses a bit there.

The Broncos want him to prove he can stay out of trouble, that he can perform as well in the new regime, and that he is healthy. They don't want to pay him now and apparently have the leverage. But not as much as people think? Marshall is too big a part of their offense and too talented to not have. He could play a huge role in Orton's success as well as everyone else's since he demands opposing defenses' attentions. Heck, maybe Marshall doesn't care if he loses money and wants to make a point, so he just sits out the whole time? As long as he returns 8 games in, he gets paid anyway and if he misses all of training camp, there will be no point since there is no chemistry and he won't know the offense a well.

Maybe Marshall is being sincere that he wants to change something in his life? Maybe he is doing this because money now is the only thing that can make him handle staying and handling whatever problem he has? Did Bowlen really say goodbye like Marshall stated on his blog?

A LOT of questions and these next few weeks will be very interesting. It's a sticky situation for both sides. Will the Broncos blink?


the facts as I understand them are if he does not report to TC:


he will lose the option to come back after week 10

he will also forfeit the chance as UFA


Because the CBA is not in place he could be a RFA until the end of the CBA as we know it in 2011.. so he could be a free man in 2012 to chose his own path but until then he is a broncos unless they trade him..

if he is a RFA they merely tender him a number ONE choice and they still win out if someone wants him they also have the option of matching his contract tender..

BM is in deep DO DO and he does not know it yet and either his agent is stupid or he is to stupid to listen to him..

He already owes the Broncs $35,000.00+ for missing a three day mini camp.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I myself, would love to see Brandon stay with the Broncos, but only if he grows up and stays out of trouble. I also believe that is what Bowlen would like to see, and I really don't feel that is too much to ask of Brandon. Rod made the effort to talk with the commissioner on Brandon's behalf - did that NOT mean anything to Brandon. I am sure Rod feels used now. I also read that Brandon would not return Rod's calls after Brandon requested a trade - WOW - some appreciation.

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Rod made the effort to talk with the commissioner on Brandon's behalf - did that NOT mean anything to Brandon?

Doesn't look like it.

tumbana
07-05-2009, 09:57 PM
the facts as I understand them are if he does not report to TC:


he will lose the option to come back after week 10

he will also forfeit the chance as UFA


Because the CBA is not in place he could be a RFA until the end of the CBA as we know it in 2011.. so he could be a free man in 2012 to chose his own path but until then he is a broncos unless they trade him..

if he is a RFA they merely tender him a number ONE choice and they still win out if someone wants him they also have the option of matching his contract tender..

BM is in deep DO DO and he does not know it yet and either his agent is stupid or he is to stupid to listen to him..

He already owes the Broncs $35,000.00+ for missing a three day mini camp.

While it is true that the Broncos could match the offer, if the team that puts forth the offer makes a good deal, the Broncos are giving him a good raise anyway. This is ASSUMING the CBA doesn't come to any sort of an agreement.

While Marshall is making some stupid decisions, what the Broncos do still effects how they might do on the field, which is what they care about most (I assume). And either way, Marshall will get paid even if it is the same money, so if he holds out the whole time, he could still potentially screw over the team.

However, we don't know EXACTLY what is going on inside, outside of maybe that the Broncos will listen to offers, which sounds an aweful lot like the Boldin situation in Arizona that didn't get anywhere. We will see.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 10:04 PM
Have any of your employees that have ask you for a raise, been in trouble, away from your workplace, many times? I am sure most bosses, if they had an employee like that, would have them in their office telling them to shape up or ship out. And in that same conversation, it would definitely take more guts than most have for the employee to ask for a raise at the same time.

Their life away from the workplace is out of my hands, as much as I'd like to fire people that beat their wives and electrocute dogs, my guy's don't get their face on the evening news and they do not have a "Do not hire" writen on their forehead.

When my best employees ask for something, now is not the time to give any of them a raise but I can't afford to pretend I can do it without them. Employees come and they go, keeping the good ones is the key.......

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 10:05 PM
Their life away from the workplace is out of my hands, as much as I'd like to fire people that beat their wives and electrocute dogs, my guy's don't get their face on the evening news and they do not have a "Do not hire" writen on their forehead.

When my best employees ask for something, now is not the time to give any of them a raise but I can't afford to pretend I can do it without them. Employees come and they go, keeping the good ones is the key.......

Well...then unfortunately your situation is entirely different than the situation being discussed. But thanks for trying to make a comparison. :2thumbs:

Lonestar
07-05-2009, 10:05 PM
While it is true that the Broncos could match the offer, if the team that puts forth the offer makes a good deal, the Broncos are giving him a good raise anyway. This is ASSUMING the CBA doesn't come to any sort of an agreement.

While Marshall is making some stupid decisions, what the Broncos do still effects how they might do on the field, which is what they care about most (I assume). And either way, Marshall will get paid even if it is the same money, so if he holds out the whole time, he could still potentially screw over the team.

However, we don't know EXACTLY what is going on inside, outside of maybe that the Broncos will listen to offers, which sounds an aweful lot like the Boldin situation in Arizona that didn't get anywhere. We will see.


see now your making good logical posts..

just took some time in getting you there..

NO one knows for sure what was said.. but I'd bet it was get you act together come to camp and we will meet you with an equitable contract once you have proved your well (hip and hand) and you do not wind up in Goodell's office again..

I'm sure not what he was wanting to hear..


time will tell.

right now the Broncos are holding all the cards..

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 10:13 PM
Well...then unfortunately your situation is entirely different than the situation being discussed. But thanks for trying to make a comparison. :2thumbs:

I couldn't agree more because I didn't make the comparison to real life jobs, Jr did, thank him. Denver Native then asked me about employees similar to Marshall, do you feel like being condescending towards her? Probably not.......

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 10:18 PM
I couldn't agree more because I didn't make the comparison to real life jobs, Jr did, thank him. Denver Native then asked me about employees similar to Marshall, do you feel like being condescending towards her? Probably not.......

Nope...you brought up your employees, not JR and not DN, so good luck with that. Clearly, they mean nothing to this argument, real or fake, as do the people that work underneath me...whoops, I guess I shouldn't have brought them into this argument...because, well, gasp, they don't really have any bearing on it because their situation isn't even remotely the same.

:confused:

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 10:28 PM
Rod speaking on Brandon requesting a trade

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=58446@kcnc.dayport.com

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 10:33 PM
perhaps mikey promised the wonder kin that they would get a new contract this coming year.. before they fired him for malfeasance.. This is why they thought they needed more money..

If someone is blowing smoke up your skirt all the time and suddenly the smoke stop and someone says hey your pretty good but the slate is clean and you have to earn a spot on this team they get cranky..

what denver did in the past went out the door when the new sheriff came to town.. everyone got set back to GO and now have to play with different rules..

Happens like that in every job I've had.. I suspect it happened each time jay and BM moved to a new team from JHS to HS to college to the pros no one gets tenure in the NFL. because they have a could of good seasons..

time to grow up and grow a pair..


Telling a team to pay me or pound sand doesn't take balls? Cutler and Marshall have the balls to look out for themselves regardless of tenure, and they are dealing with grown up issues, you just don't like the situation other than the fact that it gives you yet another reason to bash "Mikey".

And trust me, when my best employees have asked me for a raise, I don't give them the "Play and grow up" routine, so if real life is the context you want to use, I suggest you play the pathetic economy angle instead of just harping on off field issues that can be addressed.......because you and I both know that Cutler, Marshall and Broncos are dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances than you and I.......


Have any of your employees that have ask you for a raise, been in trouble, away from your workplace, many times? I am sure most bosses, if they had an employee like that, would have them in their office telling them to shape up or ship out. And in that same conversation, it would definitely take more guts than most have for the employee to ask for a raise at the same time.

Does it still read the same as you thought it did? :confused:.......

Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Telling a team to pay me or pound sand doesn't take balls? Cutler and Marshall have the balls to look out for themselves regardless of tenure, and they are dealing with grown up issues, you just don't like the situation other than the fact that it gives you yet another reason to bash "Mikey".

And trust me, when my best employees have asked me for a raise, I don't give them the "Play and grow up" routine, so if real life is the context you want to use, I suggest you play the pathetic economy angle instead of just harping on off field issues that can be addressed.......because you and I both know that Cutler, Marshall and Broncos are dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances than you and I.......

:confused::confused::confused: You mentioned your employees, and that is what I responded to

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Does it still read the same as you thought it did? :confused:.......

So you're the one calling out Carol...awesome.

Clearly, your employees don't matter, and you should have set that straight first rather than arguing for arguing's sake, rather than making a legitimate point, or stopping the discussion and explaining that your employees aren't part of the discussion. I guess you should have done that, no?

But, then again, it's all McDaniel's fault, right?

Oh, I'm sorry, you don't know who Josh McDaniels is. By the way, that's the coach of the Broncos, the team you supposedly root for. I realize it's not a stupid nickname, so you won't recognize it, but work with me here...

topscribe
07-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Their life away from the workplace is out of my hands, as much as I'd like to fire people that beat their wives and electrocute dogs, my guy's don't get their face on the evening news and they do not have a "Do not hire" writen on their forehead.

When my best employees ask for something, now is not the time to give any of them a raise but I can't afford to pretend I can do it without them. Employees come and they go, keeping the good ones is the key.......

If you are an employer, Link, then you know that being a good employee entails
more than just doing the job well. Do they have a good attitude? Do they get
along with others well? Do they show up for work when expected? Do you face
repetitive instances where they might not be there for you because of their
conduct when off the clock?

As Mo implied (although I think he needs some work in diplomacy), that's a hell
of a time to ask for a raise . . .

-----

tumbana
07-05-2009, 10:49 PM
While I agree that things like this wouldn't work in the "real world," this isn't the real world. This is the NFL and a lot of people kind of fail to realize it. The players are nationally known. They are the biggest representatives of the team and it being the NFL, there are not many of these "employees." These employees sell the seats, the jerseys, the merchandise. They play the biggest roles in the team victories. They are the most cherished by the fanbases, whom the teams make their money off of. In real life, you can fire someone and get someone just as good just like that or not give them a raise and if they don't like it, they can leave and will also be easily replaced by any of the hundreds who would want the opportunity. And who is going to notice?

In the NFL, when you have a young, talented, WR who can perform and has performed or a young franchise QB (usually most well-known) or any very good young player for that matter, it's a bit different. They make your team better when they are there, everyone who follows the sport at all probably know who they are. You lose one of them and where exactly are you going to get another one from? Draft one and hope they pan out? Wait a few years for one of the same caliber to come up in free agency and fight with other teams to sign them? Pro athletes of almost any sport, especially the NFL, have more power than most people think. Definitely more than an average employee in real life.

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 10:54 PM
If you are an employer, Link, then you know that being a good employee entails
more than just doing the job well. Do they have a good attitude? Do they get
along with others well? Do they show up for work when expected? Do you face
repetitive instances where they might not be there for you because of their
conduct when off the clock?

As Mo implied, that's a hell of a time to ask for a raise . . .

-----

Absolutely, and aside from the stupid glove thing, you can't argue with Marshall's attitude on the field, that's one of his good attributes, imo, and Marshall has only missed one game due to non-injury.

I find it hard to believe that Marshall hasn't earned more money, and I find it hard to believe that people resent him for trying to get it, there is no better time than now.

I can see where Marshall is coming from, same with Chris Kuper, who is presumably handling it entirely different. Neither is an impossible situation, and neither requires the "Play or ****" attitude.......

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 10:55 PM
In the NFL, when you have a young, talented, WR who can perform and has performed or a young franchise QB (usually most well-known) or any very good young player for that matter, it's a bit different. They make your team better when they are there, everyone who follows the sport at all probably know who they are. You lose one of them and where exactly are you going to get another one from? Draft one and hope they pan out? Wait a few years for one of the same caliber to come up in free agency and fight with other teams to sign them? Pro athletes of almost any sport, especially the NFL, have more power than most people think. Definitely more than an average employee in real life.

And, in this situation, the player does not deserve a better contract based on his injuries and his lack of ability to both go to work and stay out of trouble, which could cost him his job.

Frankly, it's not that hard to understand, and I will be utterly disappointed if Bowlen gives in to either of his demands (new contract or trade).

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Absolutely, and aside from the stupid glove thing, you can't argue with Marshall's attitude on the field, that's one of his good attributes, imo, and Marshall has only missed one game due to non-injury.

I find it hard to believe that Marshall hasn't earned more money, and I find it hard to believe that people resent him for trying to get it, there is no better time than now.

I can see where Marshall is coming from, same with Chris Kuper, who is presumably handling it entirely different. Neither is an impossible situation, and neither requires the "Play or ****" attitude.......

Unfortunately, play on the field is NOT the only thing that matters. Darn that Goodell for running the league...:rolleyes:

tumbana
07-05-2009, 11:01 PM
And, in this situation, the player does not deserve a better contract based on his injuries and his lack of ability to both go to work and stay out of trouble, which could cost him his job.

Frankly, it's not that hard to understand, and I will be utterly disappointed if Bowlen gives in to either of his demands (new contract or trade).

Outside of his hip, he has been pretty reliable over his career. And as I said, they need him to perform as a team and to get a better income. If they are going to keep him and he doesn't play or learn the scheme, build chemistry etc., they will still going to give him his reg salary AND not have him playing and helping the team. If they trade him, while they still lose the player, they would at least get some value in return. Otherwise, they would have to count on an uncapped year to truly hold ALL the cards. Do they hold some cards? of course, but Marshall could hurt them pretty badly even if it means taking away from himself.

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 11:03 PM
Outside of his hip, he has been pretty reliable over his career.

What part of "Brandon Marshall is facing criminal charges," do you not understand?

With the current rules, Marshall does not deserve anything, regardless of his play on the field. It sucks for your argument, but it's real life.

tumbana
07-05-2009, 11:05 PM
What part of "Brandon Marshall is facing criminal charges," do you not understand?

With the current rules, Marshall does not deserve anything, regardless of his play on the field. It sucks for your argument, but it's real life.

I never said it didn't, but he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet and probably won't be before the season. If he is, then it would make sense to trade him instead of lose him for a good chunk of the season and end up losing him in the offseason anyway.

MOtorboat
07-05-2009, 11:07 PM
I never said it didn't, but he hasn't been found guilty of anything yet and probably won't be before the season. If he is, then it would make sense to trade him instead of lose him for a good chunk of the season and end up losing him in the offseason anyway.

LOL, let's wait until after the trial to decide whether to trade him or not...that's solid logic.

We missed the boat in trading the guy already, so instead, we'll wait until after a trial determining if he will be suspended or not, to try and seek a trade?

Do you understand the flaw in that "logic?" (And I quote that loosely)

Northman
07-05-2009, 11:08 PM
*Yawn*

As ive stated before. No team will dish out money to a player who could possibly end up missing games this year due to his off the field behavior. Its just not going to happen. And since we do not know if he was even offered any kind of contract with clauses (which i believe he would turn down anyway) its far to early to really say where they are at contract wise. The smart money is waiting until his trial is over and then proceed from there. If Brandon wants a contract than the Denver Broncos Organization needs to protect themselves so that they dont get burned by a player who has a tendency to get into off the field trouble. Brandon Marshall has no leverage whatsover and since the Broncos arent predicted to do much this year anyway having him sit will really do nothing if this team is as bad as most naysayers say anyway. The New England Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls without a big name receiver so McD is quite familiar with how to go about putting together team oriented guys. Sure, Marshall would be a great asset to this team. But not at the risk he currently sits at. The Broncos FO are doing the right thing here.

topscribe
07-05-2009, 11:08 PM
While I agree that things like this wouldn't work in the "real world," this isn't the real world. This is the NFL and a lot of people kind of fail to realize it. The players are nationally known. They are the biggest representatives of the team and it being the NFL, there are not many of these "employees." These employees sell the seats, the jerseys, the merchandise. They play the biggest roles in the team victories. They are the most cherished by the fanbases, whom the teams make their money off of. In real life, you can fire someone and get someone just as good just like that or not give them a raise and if they don't like it, they can leave and will also be easily replaced by any of the hundreds who would want the opportunity. And who is going to notice?

In the NFL, when you have a young, talented, WR who can perform and has performed or a young franchise QB (usually most well-known) or any very good young player for that matter, it's a bit different. They make your team better when they are there, everyone who follows the sport at all probably know who they are. You lose one of them and where exactly are you going to get another one from? Draft one and hope they pan out? Wait a few years for one of the same caliber to come up in free agency and fight with other teams to sign them? Pro athletes of almost any sport, especially the NFL, have more power than most people think. Definitely more than an average employee in real life.

The similarities are closer than you think. Were it not for the investments of
the owners', would the players have a place to play? The draft is nothing
more than players looking for jobs. Few of them have much, if any, money of
their own. They are looking for work, to ply their skills, in exchange for a
paycheck.

Season tickets for the Broncos were sold out, with a waiting list of several
years, before Cutler or Marshall ever came along. They didn't make the
franchise: they came to a franchise that was already making the kind of
money it could pay them.

When Cutler left, it might have cost the franchise a couple games (if one
doesn't go by last year's performance). If Marshall leaves, it might cost
another game or two (if one doesn't go by last year's performance). To lose a
good employee is a blow to any business. But it seldom will shut the doors.

Before Cutler, the Broncos had Elway, and before him Morton, and before him
Johnson, and before him Tripucka. Before Marshall, the Broncos had Rod Smith,
and before him Watson, and before him Moses, and before him Taylor. (I know
I've left some out.) And others will come along in the future.

One player cannot be allowed to hold up an entire franchise. If Marshall opts
to sit on his ass and try to force the Broncos, it may hurt the team's record,
yes. But Marshall will hurt a whole lot more, and perhaps for a long time.
Guaranteed.

-----

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 11:25 PM
So you're the one calling out Carol...awesome.

Clearly, your employees don't matter, and you should have set that straight first rather than arguing for arguing's sake, rather than making a legitimate point, or stopping the discussion and explaining that your employees aren't part of the discussion. I guess you should have done that, no?

But, then again, it's all McDaniel's fault, right?

Oh, I'm sorry, you don't know who Josh McDaniels is. By the way, that's the coach of the Broncos, the team you supposedly root for. I realize it's not a stupid nickname, so you won't recognize it, but work with me here...

Sure, why not? That's what trolls do, right?

You're the one calling me out, I did no such thing to Carol in my response to you or her, I was simply asking you if you were willing to take on a similar pissing contest with somebody as respected as her for no apparent reason.

As for setting the record straight instead of arguing for arguing's sake.......I did set it straight in my first response to Jr, how and when I do it is none of your concern, so it seems strange that it would be enough to upset your fragile sensibilities. Or maybe you just didn't read all the posts before you shot your mouth off, I don't know, I just know you wouldn't pretend to tell me how to post since you know nothing about trolling yourself.

As for the rest of your rant, seems like you've been stooping to my level a little lately (Including the arguing for arguing's sake, obviously), only your name-calling is toward someone else. So childish nicknames and factless hate spewing is not only allowed but encouraged, just as long as it's not about a Denver Broncos player or coach that you like.

And you are wrong about another thing, it is not all Josh McDaniels fault, unlike a lot of people around here, I can spread the blame around, but the person with the bigger part in it gets the Lions share of the blame.......and that is Josh McDaniels.......

Simple Jaded
07-05-2009, 11:38 PM
Unfortunately, play on the field is NOT the only thing that matters. Darn that Goodell for running the league...:rolleyes:

Neither is off the field issues.

Btw, Roger Goodell is great for the NFL, he makes it easier for teams to deal with players who have issues. Marshall has more leverage with Tagliabue running the show, imo.......

Italianmobstr7
07-06-2009, 12:12 AM
I think some fans forget too quickly how great this guy has been on the field.
Keep Brandon in Denver.

Northman
07-06-2009, 01:02 AM
I think some fans forget too quickly how great this guy has been on the field.
Keep Brandon in Denver.

I think some fans forget to quickly how many problems he's had off the field.

dogfish
07-06-2009, 01:05 AM
i think some fans forget too quickly that marshall was drafted from central florida!



:elefant::confused::welcome:

Italianmobstr7
07-06-2009, 01:40 AM
I think some fans forget to quickly how many problems he's had off the field.

He's missed only 1 game because of off the field problems...

MOtorboat
07-06-2009, 07:30 AM
He's missed only 1 game because of off the field problems...

And he's facing misdemeanor battery charges right now. I'm guessing that if convicted, he's going to get 4-8 games. It's just a matter of time before he gets a massive suspension. He can't go six months without an incident with law enforcement.

CoachChaz
07-06-2009, 07:54 AM
Simple. Should he be paid more than a 4th round draft choice? Obviously.

Should he be paid like a top 10 NFL receiver? No chance in hell.

roomemp
07-06-2009, 08:00 AM
I like what the FO is doing with this situation. No way in hell Marshall is going to get a raise this year.....From the Broncos that is. Basically the Broncos are saying keep your nose clean and just do your thing and we will take care of you next year.

Tned
07-06-2009, 08:21 AM
I think some fans forget to quickly how many problems he's had off the field.

I think some fans forget he has only missed one game.

LRtagger
07-06-2009, 08:46 AM
I think some fans forget he has only missed one game.

He has been LUCKY to miss one game in only three years in the league. Not only that, but he dropped umpteen balls last year because of another "incident" off the field. And another "incident" that may have contributed to a teammate's death.

Everyone in the league knows if he does so much as jaywalk he will get hit with 8 games.

Let us also not forget that part of the basis for Brandon wanting out (or so he claims) has to do with the OLD regime, not the new...that being said, I can't understand why people continue to blame McDaniels for this (not related to Tned's post I quoted). McDaniels didn't misdiagnose a hip injury nor did he call Marshall a ***** last year when he didnt want to practice. McDaniels also does not write the checks, that's all on Pat. So if Brandon gets moved you can blame that on Pat and last years staff....but most of the blame is on Brandon.

Northman
07-06-2009, 09:47 AM
He's missed only 1 game because of off the field problems...

Thus far.

Northman
07-06-2009, 09:47 AM
I think some fans forget he has only missed one game.

See above.

Ravage!!!
07-06-2009, 09:58 AM
I think some fans forget what happens when you trade away your best players (or let them leave). *See defensive line*

Getting a first round pick does NOT mean you replace Marshall. If you honestly think that Mcdoodles offense can simply run on 'coast' mode without real WR talent, you are completely fooling yourself.

First we are doing our best to "do" with downgraded QB talent. Saying that the offensive 'scheme' will simply make it work. Now its ok for this team to down grade at WR as well. There was only THREE things good about this team last year. QB, WR, and LT.

Northman
07-06-2009, 10:13 AM
Boo fricky hoo.

SoCalImport
07-06-2009, 10:24 AM
I think some fans forget what happens when you trade away your best players (or let them leave). *See defensive line*

Getting a first round pick does NOT mean you replace Marshall. If you honestly think that Mcdoodles offense can simply run on 'coast' mode without real WR talent, you are completely fooling yourself.

First we are doing our best to "do" with downgraded QB talent. Saying that the offensive 'scheme' will simply make it work. Now its ok for this team to down grade at WR as well. There was only THREE things good about this team last year. QB, WR, and LT.

eh'hem. I'm pretty sure there are four more guys on that O-line.

MOtorboat
07-06-2009, 10:28 AM
I think some fans forget what happens when you trade away your best players (or let them leave). *See defensive line*

Getting a first round pick does NOT mean you replace Marshall. If you honestly think that Mcdoodles offense can simply run on 'coast' mode without real WR talent, you are completely fooling yourself.

First we are doing our best to "do" with downgraded QB talent. Saying that the offensive 'scheme' will simply make it work. Now its ok for this team to down grade at WR as well. There was only THREE things good about this team last year. QB, WR, and LT.

Just a question.

Is it a "downgrade" if you get 8 games out of your starter versus 16 games out of your starter?

I believe Brandon Marshall is doing a good job of downgrading his own performance.

Sure, I know, it hasn't happened yet...but he's now been involved with something like 13 instances in two years with law enforcement...it's coming.

topscribe
07-06-2009, 10:34 AM
I think some fans forget what happens when you trade away your best players (or let them leave). *See defensive line*

Getting a first round pick does NOT mean you replace Marshall. If you honestly think that Mcdoodles offense can simply run on 'coast' mode without real WR talent, you are completely fooling yourself.

First we are doing our best to "do" with downgraded QB talent. Saying that the offensive 'scheme' will simply make it work. Now its ok for this team to down grade at WR as well. There was only THREE things good about this team last year. QB, WR, and LT.

And LG, C, RG, RT, TE, and RB (3 RBs with 5.0 YPC or more).

But I see what you're saying, Rav. Nonetheless, this is a team sport. One
player cannot be allowed to disrupt the entire franchise, no matter how good
he is on the field. I want Marshall back. I think most all of us do. But not just
any old way he wants to be . . .

-----

Lonestar
07-06-2009, 11:34 AM
He's missed only 1 game because of off the field problems...


yep that he did. But at the time they were talking 8 weeks also.. then it was 3 and finally 2 with one suspended..

How do you as a coach plan for Mr. Moron playing if there is always a sword dangling in the air over his head..

Sorry but way to many questions to deal with, until this punk and that is what he is a street kid that grew up physically but not mentally..

just a few of the things you were forgetting:


how many other police blotter incidents has he racked up in FLA, Atlanta, and now Denver.. while a jury may not get to here about them the Judge knows it all when he gets sentenced..

he was an instigator at that New years celebration after their final HOME loss that ultimately got Darrent fatally shot..

his stunt in the end zone that the WISE Other Brandon stopped from happening..

we still do not have a read on the rehab from his hip issue since he refuses to allow Bronco doctors to eval him..

we are not sure if his hand has more feeling than last year, (possible cause of dropsies)


to some one that is going to invest a large part of the up coming salary cap Owners, HC and GM's need answers about all of the above.. as it is not just a one time oops, for this head case..

Traveler
07-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Not sure how everyone views the upcoming season, but in my mind, we are basically rebuilding the team from scratch.

How does this relate to Marshall? He can either be part of of process or get shipped out for more choices/opportunities to make this team better. He was one of our best players on offense while Shanahan was here.

Can't say that anymore because of the new offense. There is no doubt we will be more of a run first team and that will hurt Marshall. I think he sees the writing on the wall.

Whether we agree or not, McDaniels is remaking this team in his image. He has shown that if you don't want to be here, they'll accomodate you provided they get worthy compensation. Why keep someone here who doesn't want to be here? Especially with the baggage he's carrying.

My hope is that Marshall will realize he loses in all aspects. He has no leverage! That said, if the FO does get an obscene offer for Brandon, I won't be sad to see him go. One less headache to worry about since he's one incident from missing an entire season.

Traveler
07-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Double post.

Lonestar
07-06-2009, 12:39 PM
Not sure how everyone views the upcoming season, but in my mind, we are basically rebuilding the team from scratch.

How does this relate to Marshall? He can either be part of of process or get shipped out for more choices/opportunities to make this team better. He was one of our best players on offense while Shanahan was here.

Can't say that anymore because of the new offense. There is no doubt we will be more of a run first team and that will hurt Marshall. I think he sees the writing on the wall.

Whether we agree or not, McDaniels is remaking this team in his image. He has shown that if you don't want to be here, they'll accomodate you provided they get worthy compensation. Why keep someone here who doesn't want to be here? Especially with the baggage he's carrying.

My hope is that Marshall will realize he loses in all aspects. He has no leverage! That said, if the FO does get an obscene offer for Brandon, I won't be sad to see him go. One less headache to worry about since he's one incident from missing an entire season.

outstanding post not usre why everyone does not see it this way..

and needs to be repeated.

Dreadnought
07-06-2009, 12:47 PM
He has been LUCKY to miss one game in only three years in the league. Not only that, but he dropped umpteen balls last year because of another "incident" off the field. And another "incident" that may have contributed to a teammate's death.

Everyone in the league knows if he does so much as jaywalk he will get hit with 8 games.

Let us also not forget that part of the basis for Brandon wanting out (or so he claims) has to do with the OLD regime, not the new...that being said, I can't understand why people continue to blame McDaniels for this (not related to Tned's post I quoted). McDaniels didn't misdiagnose a hip injury nor did he call Marshall a ***** last year when he didnt want to practice. McDaniels also does not write the checks, that's all on Pat. So if Brandon gets moved you can blame that on Pat and last years staff....but most of the blame is on Brandon.


Exactly - to say I am not a member of the McDaniels fan club is an understatement, but there is no fair way to blame any of this mess on him - this is pretty much all on B-Marsh. Like it or not he isn't going to be part of our long term plans, so we'd better get used to that and get as much as we can for him. I suspect his next team will regret it, too, next time he steps on his carrot - because he will.

Lonestar
07-06-2009, 01:27 PM
Exactly - to say I am not a member of the McDaniels fan club is an understatement, but there is no fair way to blame any of this mess on him - this is pretty much all on B-Marsh. Like it or not he isn't going to be part of our long term plans, so we'd better get used to that and get as much as we can for him. I suspect his next team will regret it, too, next time he steps on his carrot - because he will.


I think your correct about not being in the long term plans, while he is pretty good with YAC, the hip might not be what it used to be and may cut down on YAC..

He is big and strong, but not a speed merchant.. his forte should be in the redzone but we all know that has not happened for what ever reason.. should be a possession receiver with his size..

Now can all those catches be made up by receivers that can indeed get open? instead of having the ball forced to BM that seems to be the 64 million dollar question.. and that folks is probably the kind of contract he will be looking for..

Glad to know we will have the option of matching or getting their #ONE draft choice from whoever someone bites on him as RFA..

that folks is a huge price to pay for this kid.. until then he is on the squad.. unless he is put on PUP and not sure if he gets paid while their or not I think not.. if true then we saved 2.2 mil this year..

Orange7
07-07-2009, 08:13 AM
Exactly - to say I am not a member of the McDaniels fan club is an understatement, but there is no fair way to blame any of this mess on him - this is pretty much all on B-Marsh. Like it or not he isn't going to be part of our long term plans, so we'd better get used to that and get as much as we can for him. I suspect his next team will regret it, too, next time he steps on his carrot - because he will.

It comes down to a few things...

Usually, when someone is "troubled", there comes a point when they either realize they need to change their ways, or they never realize and are stuck that way forever. How many incidents has Brandon Marshall been in now? Be it DUI, arm cutting, domestic violence claims, celebration stunts and even pissing off the HC (training camp last year).

I'd rather give a long term contract to a "good" receiver that will cause no problems, and have a good attitude...than to a receiver who will cause problems.

Can B-Marsh change? I guess anyone can change, but it's looking alot less likely as time goes on...

Dreadnought
07-07-2009, 08:32 AM
It comes down to a few things...

Usually, when someone is "troubled", there comes a point when they either realize they need to change their ways, or they never realize and are stuck that way forever. How many incidents has Brandon Marshall been in now? Be it DUI, arm cutting, domestic violence claims, celebration stunts and even pissing off the HC (training camp last year).

I'd rather give a long term contract to a "good" receiver that will cause no problems, and have a good attitude...than to a receiver who will cause problems.

Can B-Marsh change? I guess anyone can change, but it's looking alot less likely as time goes on...

Exactly - anyone can change in theory, but thats not how the smart money bets

ursamajor
07-07-2009, 08:58 AM
Exactly - anyone can change in theory, but thats not how the smart money bets

When I hear about this, I think about Tank Johnson. Someone did die in Johnson's case though but anyway, he was given probation, and he messed up again. The Bears cut him for it. It was a blow to our defense. Our pass rush hasn't been the same since. But it needed to be done. He was a key part of our team, but at some point, the team needs to take a stand.

Its always a shame when it is a productive player though.

rcsodak
07-08-2009, 12:53 AM
He's missed only 1 game because of off the field problems...

.....and countless catchable passes because of his "off the field" shenanigans.


:coffee:

Ravage!!!
07-08-2009, 11:09 AM
.....and countless catchable passes because of his "off the field" shenanigans.


:coffee:

His dropped passes per pass thrown-to ratio isn't high at all. In fact, its right in line with some of the top WRs in the NFL.

His hand didn't cause any problems, and when you are thrown at that many times, you have to expect drops. Thats part of it. :coffee:

Not to mention... accidents can happen in any home. Blaming anyone for 'shenanigans' is absolutely ridiculous. I guess we need to now put these athletes in cardboard boxes in the offseason, wrapped in styro-foam peanuts.

T.K.O.
07-08-2009, 12:21 PM
His dropped passes per pass thrown-to ratio isn't high at all. In fact, its right in line with some of the top WRs in the NFL.

His hand didn't cause any problems, and when you are thrown at that many times, you have to expect drops. Thats part of it. :coffee:

Not to mention... accidents can happen in any home. Blaming anyone for 'shenanigans' is absolutely ridiculous. I guess we need to now put these athletes in cardboard boxes in the offseason, wrapped in styro-foam peanuts.

not to mention he was thrown to when he was dbl covered ...alot !

nevcraw
07-08-2009, 01:32 PM
His dropped passes per pass thrown-to ratio isn't high at all. In fact, its right in line with some of the top WRs in the NFL.
His hand didn't cause any problems, and when you are thrown at that many times, you have to expect drops. Thats part of it. :coffee:

Not to mention... accidents can happen in any home. Blaming anyone for 'shenanigans' is absolutely ridiculous. I guess we need to now put these athletes in cardboard boxes in the offseason, wrapped in styro-foam peanuts.

this would be interesting if this is true. do you have the stats on this?

MOtorboat
07-08-2009, 02:36 PM
When I hear about this, I think about Tank Johnson. Someone did die in Johnson's case though but anyway, he was given probation, and he messed up again. The Bears cut him for it. It was a blow to our defense. Our pass rush hasn't been the same since. But it needed to be done. He was a key part of our team, but at some point, the team needs to take a stand.

Its always a shame when it is a productive player though.

I know I'm going to regret this, but here goes:

Brandon Marshall's behavior was heavily involved in a pretty high-profile shooting in Denver...

Lonestar
07-08-2009, 02:49 PM
I know I'm going to regret this, but here goes:

Brandon Marshall's behavior was heavily involved in a pretty high-profile shooting in Denver...



no reason to regret telling the truth.. his behavior at the after dismal season party spraying the gang bangers with Champagne most likely set the whole thing in motion..

His cousin/friend being there playing macho man did not help either..

tell it like it is.. MO..

NightTrainLayne
07-08-2009, 02:55 PM
I've read that the assailants supposedly were sprayed with Champagne, but I don't think that there's been anyone to decisively say it was Brandon Marshall who sprayed it has there?

Lonestar
07-08-2009, 03:11 PM
I've read that the assailants supposedly were sprayed with Champagne, but I don't think that there's been anyone to decisively say it was Brandon Marshall who sprayed it has there?

it was widely reported at the time he was an instigator along with his cousin/friend I do not remember which. Bouncers had to calm it down and IIRC the gang bangers left directly after wards and the Broncos stuck around for quite awhile.

He was horsing around and that lead to a small confrontation inside.. which we all know finished OUTSIDE..

At least that is how I remembered it being reported..

MOtorboat
07-08-2009, 03:14 PM
I've read that the assailants supposedly were sprayed with Champagne, but I don't think that there's been anyone to decisively say it was Brandon Marshall who sprayed it has there?

It was Brandon's cousin who got in their face after they got upset about being sprayed with champagne. Brandon came to get his homie's back, and the gangbangers were the ones kicked out of the club. They apparently approached Marshall and his cousin a second time outside of the nightclub.

Lonestar
07-08-2009, 03:19 PM
It was Brandon's cousin who got in their face after they got upset about being sprayed with champagne. Brandon came to get his homie's back, and the gangbangers were the ones kicked out of the club. They apparently approached Marshall and his cousin a second time outside of the nightclub.

You got it, thanks for jogging the old bean.. I knew he was there and his "cousin" was a big part in it and thought I remembered him being the one of the sprayers..

At the time I thought it classless, to be celebrating a very dismal season hours after getting there butts kicked..

then to have set things in motion for the shooting.. IIRC he was in the same limo and missed getting hit by inches..

MOtorboat
07-08-2009, 03:22 PM
You got it, thanks for jogging the old bean.. I knew he was there and his "cousin" was a big part in it and thought I remembered him being the one of the sprayers..

At the time I thought it classless, to be celebrating a very dismal season hours after getting there butts kicked..

then to have set things in motion for the shooting.. IIRC he was in the same limo and missed getting hit by inches..

I'm not going to fault them for partying. Every single one of us has had a bad day at the office and gone out and had fun with our friends that night.

It's just that when my buddy got fired from his job and we took him out to get plowed, we didn't spray champagne on some gangbangers and then bow up when they got pissed about it.

Lonestar
07-08-2009, 03:28 PM
I'm not going to fault them for partying. Every single one of us has had a bad day at the office and gone out and had fun with our friends that night.

It's just that when my buddy got fired from his job and we took him out to get plowed, we didn't spray champagne on some gangbangers and then bow up when they got pissed about it.

Yeah I guess you could look at it that way also....

I guess I would have not been partying, in drowning my sorrows.. especially after the beat down..

But then I did all my drinking before the age of 30.. and rarely drink now..

Dean
07-08-2009, 06:18 PM
Here is what happened according to a person who was present.



ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) - Denver Broncos wide receiver Javon Walker says he still has the bloodied shirt from the night teammate Darrent Williams died in his arms after a drive-by shooting on New Year's Day.

In his first public comments about Williams' unsolved death, Walker tells HBO's ``Real Sports'' in a segment to be aired Tuesday night that he keeps the unlaundered shirt as a reminder of his friend and of the fragility of life.

Interviewer Andrea Kremer asks Walker about showing up to Broncos headquarters about 10 hours after Williams' slaying while still wearing his bloodstained clothes.

``I still have those clothes,'' Walker replied.

Asked why he hadn't washed them, he said, ``It's just something that reminds me every day of what could happen and this is what happened to my friend. And this is like ... what's left of him is on my clothes.''

Walker told The Associated Press on Saturday that the interview with Kremer was the only time he planned on talking publicly about the Williams' slaying.

Williams was a rising 24-year-old star who had just completed his second season in the NFL when the stretch limousine he was riding in was sprayed with bullets after leaving a nightclub in downtown Denver where there had been an altercation between people in Williams' group and suspected gang members.

No charges have been filed in the case, although police believe several men in custody on federal drug charges have information about Williams' slaying.

``Real Sports'' said another Broncos receiver, Brandon Marshall, and his cousin were partying with Williams' group that night and began spraying champagne around, ``some of which hit a club patron and his friend, who confronted Williams and his entourage.''

Those men flashed gang signs and were escorted out of the club, said members of a rap group from Williams' hometown of Fort Worth, Texas, who were with him that night.

Walker said he didn't see the encounter inside the club but saw trouble brewing when he left at closing time. Marshall and his cousin were exchanging heated words with two men, he said. The rappers said it was the same men who had been kicked out of the club earlier that night.

After Williams and Walker both tried to intervene, Williams told Walker to ride with him in his Hummer limousine, and they drove off into the night, Walker said.

Less than a mile away, Walker said he was turning up the music when Williams suddenly fell into his lap.

Walker said he pushed Williams away and told him to quit messing around - and that's when he saw blood spurting from Williams' neck and heard the other gunshots.

Walker said he held Williams close and tried to stop the bleeding.

``All I remember at that point in time was he was just looking up at me and I was just like, 'I got you, Dee, I got you, Dee. I got you, Dee,''' Walker recounted. ``So, the limo went off the road into the side of the snow. I just remember grabbing him, pulling him out the limo.''

Walker said he didn't know if he should run with Williams and worried if ``these dudes were going to try to finish us off?''

``You don't know what to think,'' Walker said, ``to have somebody die in your arms and you know you're the last person he hugged.''

Walker said he didn't attend Williams' funeral in Fort Worth with the rest of the Broncos ``because all it was going to do was just bring back memories of something I didn't want to feel again.''

He said it had been hard enough when the Broncos held a private memorial service at team headquarters and he didn't know what to tell Williams' mother, Rosalind Williams, as she hugged him.

Instead, Walker went to Las Vegas, fearful, he said, for his own life in case the shooter wanted to ``finish everyone off'' who was in the limo.

Walker, who joined the Broncos in a draft day trade from Green Bay last year, said at first he didn't want to keep playing in Denver.

He said he doesn't need any grief counseling, but acknowledged he'll probably never put the tragedy behind him: ``Maybe when I see him in heaven, I can ask him, maybe put it behind me then.''