Schefter: Den may take 1st Rd offer for BMarsh

[Dirk]

NFL insider Adam Schefter writes on his Twitter page that the Broncos are willing to listen to offers for Brandon Marshall.

The Broncos "won't make them, but will take them," Schefter says, adding that he believes the club would part with its top receiver for a first-round pick. Denver already traded its 2010 top pick to move up in the second round of this year's draft for CB Alphonso Smith. Marshall is a holdout risk as he recovers from hip surgery, wants a new contract, and has demanded a trade.
Source: Adam Schefter

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3653

[Dirk]

I figured I would start a new thread instead of this being buried in another thread where some may not see it.

Getting back a 2010 1st rounder for BMarsh would be fine by me. I love the skills of BMarsh but not the attitude and off field antics.

[oobehr]

I would take that offer but I don't know if anyone is giving it.

[Dirk]

I would take that offer but I don't know if anyone is giving it.


Agreed. But you never know...now that the "rumor" is out there...let's see who is going to call....

[WARHORSE]

Schefter has ties in Denver. On one hand that makes me think someone is feeding him info.

If Denver is not making offers..........then maybe they dont really want to move him, and are simply leaving their options open, willing to listen to anything in case someone blows their socks off.


If theyre open, it also means theyre feeling particular about the receivers we have already, which Im not surprised about.

But a first rounder for Marshall?

It would have to be a top eight pick.

In other words, if we traded to buffalo, and they drafted 14th, they would have to make up the difference in additional draft picks using the draft value chart.

Other than that, I would not let him go.

[WARHORSE]

Also, it said the word on the street is Denver does not want to trade Marshall.

[T.K.O.]

Schefter has ties in Denver. On one hand that makes me think someone is feeding him info.

If Denver is not making offers..........then maybe they dont really want to move him, and are simply leaving their options open, willing to listen to anything in case someone blows their socks off.


If theyre open, it also means theyre feeling particular about the receivers we have already, which Im not surprised about.

But a first rounder for Marshall?

It would have to be a top eight pick.

In other words, if we traded to buffalo, and they drafted 14th, they would have to make up the difference in additional draft picks using the draft value chart.

Other than that, I would not let him go.

oh that would be classic...t.o. and b.m. on the same team
sit back and let the fireworks fly !
they would be a scary tandem if they could both grow up though.

[T.K.O.]

Also, it said the word on the street is Denver does not want to trade Marshall.

i would hope not, mcd would have to hire some serious security if he wants to go out in public!
i wonder if the broncos heard something from goodell in the event he pleads or is found guilty ?......hmmmmm

[Dreadnought]

I'd take that deal and run, and it wouldn't have to be top 8 IMO - anything in the top 50 picks and I'd be happy, frankly.

[underrated29]

i would be very upset. a guaranteed top 10 pick or they throw in a 2nd too.

That is the only way i would not be upset.

I dont think people realize just how freakishly deadly, brandon is going to be in our joshs new system. and the fact that we will have a run game to keep the defense from loading up on him.

[Northman]

I highly doubt Marshall gets traded, at least for a 1st round pick. There is just too much baggage there for a team to take the risk. Especially at this point in time with his court date still lingering.

[nevcraw]

Based on this offseason so far here's how it will got down -

BMarsh to seattle
Seattle get's: BMarsh and our #1 pick
Denver get's: Seattles' #1 (Denver's previous #1 before draft) ... and hosed...

[Tempus Fugit]

Denver should entertain offers for the guy. With this commissioner and Marshall's problems, you've got a recipe for long suspensions. If the Broncos could get a first from a middle to low ranked team, they need to seriously consider making the move.

[WARHORSE]

I'd take that deal and run, and it wouldn't have to be top 8 IMO - anything in the top 50 picks and I'd be happy, frankly.


You might be happy, but it would be ignorant on the part of the Broncos.

[haroldthebarrel]

Based on this offseason so far here's how it will got down -

BMarsh to seattle
Seattle get's: BMarsh and our #1 pick
Denver get's: Seattles' #1 (Denver's previous #1 before draft) ... and hosed...

Exactly. No positions has as many busts in the first round as receivers. Except maybe qbs. Now we are supposed to get rid of two of our best players, at the positons that is the hardest to draft, and improve as a team in the long run.
Not to mention that both guys are very young.
The man is underpaid. We have a standing philosophy of not giving guys contracts before their rookie contract is played out. That was with Shanahan though. So why cant we change that philosophy?
IMHO the man, with all the baggage he carries, is to this team chance of winning worth at least two first round picks.And those should be better than #15. The clue here to me is "TO THIS TEAMS CHANCE OF WINNING".
I will say. The other receivers in this league capable of consistently winning or chancing the flow of the games are:
Fitzgerald
Boldin
Steve Smith
Moss
Calvin Johnson
TO
Wayne
and Marshall

Thats not a lot of players, and then I obviously exclude those who have not yet proved to be consistent over the years.

We are supposed to improve vertically, not linearly.

[OrangeHoof]

What I see is the Broncos FO making a half-hearted effort to trade Marshall so the next time Marshall squawks they can say "We tried to honor your trade request but nobody wants you. Maybe you should reconsider how valuable you are perceived by the rest of the league. Now get back to practice."

[Tned]

What I see is the Broncos FO making a half-hearted effort to trade Marshall so the next time Marshall squawks they can say "We tried to honor your trade request but nobody wants you. Maybe you should reconsider how valuable you are perceived by the rest of the league. Now get back to practice."

Hopefully, that's what is going on.

[dogfish]

i wouldn't trade a happy, healthy and trouble-free marshall for anything short of a king's ransom, but at this point, with all the question marks and the risk involved, i'd probably move him if somebody offered a first. . . of course, it's obviously more tempting if it isn't a powerhouse team that you expect to be drafting low, and even more tempting if we could ship him over to the NFC. . . .

ideally i'd rather see him play out the next ten years in denver and rip it up, but with the serious suspension risk i think a first would be adequate compensation. . . especially now that we're past the draft and doogie can't burn it up trading back into the second. . . :D even though his departure would leave an obvious hole, and our receiving corps would be greatly lessened, i wouldn't mind going into next year with two firsts, and a greater chance at maybe fixing some of the defensive issues. . . having one of the league's best receiving corps with kyle orton at QB might be putting pearls on a hog anyways, and i'd be pretty okay with letting knowshon be more of the focus if they'd actually make a freakin' legitimate effort to fix the defensive front seven. . . .




I highly doubt Marshall gets traded, at least for a 1st round pick. There is just too much baggage there for a team to take the risk. Especially at this point in time with his court date still lingering.

possibly, but you know what P.T. barnum said-- there's one born every minute. . . hey, the seahawks gave up a first for deion branch!

[broncofaninfla]

B Marsh has no leverage, there should be no hurry to deal him for a pick in next years draft...............

[broncofanatic1987]

I think it's pretty clear that the Broncos are not in hurry to trade Marshall.

They certainly shouldn't let him go for anything less than a first round pick.

[Lonestar]

Exactly. No positions has as many busts in the first round as receivers. Except maybe qbs. Now we are supposed to get rid of two of our best players, at the positons that is the hardest to draft, and improve as a team in the long run.
Not to mention that both guys are very young.
The man is underpaid. We have a standing philosophy of not giving guys contracts before their rookie contract is played out. That was with Shanahan though. So why cant we change that philosophy?
IMHO the man, with all the baggage he carries, is to this team chance of winning worth at least two first round picks.And those should be better than #15. The clue here to me is "TO THIS TEAMS CHANCE OF WINNING".
I will say. The other receivers in this league capable of consistently winning or chancing the flow of the games are:
Fitzgerald
Boldin
Steve Smith
Moss
Calvin Johnson
TO
Wayne
and Marshall

Thats not a lot of players, and then I obviously exclude those who have not yet proved to be consistent over the years.

We are supposed to improve vertically, not linearly.

But how many of those teams have won all the marbles with those receivers?..


Just because a WR is a super star does not make the team a total winner.. having good to great talent around them that play as A TEAM..

while I think Marshall has a lot of potential would having another top 15 pick next year be a pretty good thing?

This team was and maybe still is devoid of solid talent after almost a decade of lousy personnel decisions.. we are at best one deep at the most critical spots ins some spots not even that....

if the right trade comes along we should do it in a heartbeat.. but alas most GM's and HC's are smarter than that..

as for Adam Schefter inside position in DEN I think unless it is bobby turner or rick Dennison they have moved on to other pigpens..

Adam was a great insider for years here, when he was a DP reporter was always square and treated the FO well. When he moved onto NFL network he was embraced because the NFL networks is a joint effort for the owners..

Now that he has moved one I doubt that he sources would be as CANDID as before..

[Den21vsBal19]

as for Adam Schefter inside position in DEN I think unless it is bobby turner or rick Dennison they have moved on to other pigpens..

Pat???

IIRC, he is chairman of the league's media 'committee' ;)

As for Marshall, he can post & posture all he wants, but he has absolutely no strings to pull, he's injured, he's got upcoming legal problems, and he ain't going to cost us a lot if he's sat .........................

[ursamajor]

The Broncos FO need to look at BMarsh and decide if he is in their long term plans. If so, they need to pay him. Increased Morale, increased production. If not, they need to deal him and get someone or something that/who can be a part of those long term plans.

A 1st would fit the bill.

[haroldthebarrel]

But how many of those teams have won all the marbles with those receivers?..


Just because a WR is a super star does not make the team a total winner.. having good to great talent around them that play as A TEAM..

while I think Marshall has a lot of potential would having another top 15 pick next year be a pretty good thing?

This team was and maybe still is devoid of solid talent after almost a decade of lousy personnel decisions.. we are at best one deep at the most critical spots ins some spots not even that....

if the right trade comes along we should do it in a heartbeat.. but alas most GM's and HC's are smarter than that..

as for Adam Schefter inside position in DEN I think unless it is bobby turner or rick Dennison they have moved on to other pigpens..

Adam was a great insider for years here, when he was a DP reporter was always square and treated the FO well. When he moved onto NFL network he was embraced because the NFL networks is a joint effort for the owners..

Now that he has moved one I doubt that he sources would be as CANDID as before..

Personally I think the superbowl argument is thin. It is at best arbitrary.
I care how the team performs, and if you perform you win in the long run.

Let's see. All but Marshall and Calvin has been to a superbowl.
Obviously Wayne and Moss have won the big thing.

The talent of all the players create the team, but the argument is really will the compensation we get for Marshall turn us into a better team than before.
And that is highly unlikely.
Because at that time we will need a receiver, we must draft a player/s that is as good or turn this team into a much better unit.
What's the chances of that?
And in that argument you have to include facts like:
1. this teams FO is a huge questionmark.
2. There are no proven talent finders here at this point with Goodman gone.
3. We only had 100 players on our board which should indicate the scouts are drawn thin
4. The team was willing to give up a likely higher pick next year for a player extremely similar albeit unproven to Dre Bly which was fired.

These are just on top of my head.
Face it, the likelyhood we will be a better team without Marshall and some added picks are way lower than with Marshall and no new draft picks.

Think of it. How often does a team find a probowl receiver?
Let alone a pro bowl receiver and a pro bowl qb in the same draft?
Or even a pro bowl receive and a pro bowl qb in 1, 3 or 5 drafts.

[Lonestar]

Pat???

IIRC, he is chairman of the league's media 'committee' ;)

As for Marshall, he can post & posture all he wants, but he has absolutely no strings to pull, he's injured, he's got upcoming legal problems, and he ain't going to cost us a lot if he's sat .........................


Yep I thought of that but I do not see him as being the source.. I do not think that Pat has been in on all the inside stuff over the years.. maybe now more so but not in the past.. I think it was mostly Ted at the time..

your spot on about marshall this ass clown is all hat and no cattle..

[Lonestar]

The Broncos FO need to look at BMarsh and decide if he is in their long term plans. If so, they need to pay him. Increased Morale, increased production. If not, they need to deal him and get someone or something that/who can be a part of those long term plans.

A 1st would fit the bill.


increased morale for whom brandon?

no one else see it like he does.. if he gets a huge contract there is less for them down the road..

I think they all see that while he would be an asset in making receptions they also see the HUGE potential of the downside to him being around..

I do agree that unless he becomes MR team player they should deal his ass off to the highest bidder..

[dogfish]

Obviously Wayne and Moss have won the big thing.




moss has never won a super bowl. . . .


:confused:

[haroldthebarrel]

moss has never won a super bowl. . . .


:confused:

bah..... of course. my bad!

[LRtagger]

Based on this offseason so far here's how it will got down -

BMarsh to seattle
Seattle get's: BMarsh and our #1 pick
Denver get's: Seattles' #1 (Denver's previous #1 before draft) ... and hosed...

yea that will probably happen

[Lonestar]

Personally I think the superbowl argument is thin. It is at best arbitrary.
I care how the team performs, and if you perform you win in the long run.

Let's see. All but Marshall and Calvin has been to a superbowl.
Obviously Wayne and Moss have won the big thing.

The talent of all the players create the team, but the argument is really will the compensation we get for Marshall turn us into a better team than before.
And that is highly unlikely.
Because at that time we will need a receiver, we must draft a player/s that is as good or turn this team into a much better unit.
What's the chances of that?
And in that argument you have to include facts like:
1. this teams FO is a huge questionmark.
2. There are no proven talent finders here at this point with Goodman gone.
3. We only had 100 players on our board which should indicate the scouts are drawn thin
4. The team was willing to give up a likely higher pick next year for a player extremely similar albeit unproven to Dre Bly which was fired.

These are just on top of my head.
Face it, the likelyhood we will be a better team without Marshall and some added picks are way lower than with Marshall and no new draft picks.

Think of it. How often does a team find a probowl receiver?
Let alone a pro bowl receiver and a pro bowl qb in the same draft?
Or even a pro bowl receive and a pro bowl qb in 1, 3 or 5 drafts.


Pro bowl receivers really do not mean much unless they are team players LIKE MOSS was when he went .. Most of the time when you have a pro bowl WR they are primadonna and ball hogs..

which is about the worst thing you can have on a TEAM..

nice for the franchise to get props but past that usually means you are loser.. Unless of course your the SB winner then the entire team is going to the pro bowl..


as for the FO who the hell cares if we had 100 players on the board.. I read that as they looked at others and found them wanting in some area..

they did not fit our scheme, were not smart enough, not fast enough, were not TEAM players, not a position of dire need..

I suspect when he made that comment he was referring to the top 100 players not everyone they looked at over the season.. You for get they fired Goodman's a few days before the draft AFTER all the heavy scouting work was done..

Perhaps that is the reason they only had 100 players the Goodman's were to focused.. or were not looking for what Josh wanted.. perhaps Josh found them wanting in what he was looking for..

we will never know for sure what happened there, will we..


EVERYONE NEEDS to stop using the mikey model for what we have done.. and start thinking like all the other coaches in the NFL.

mike liked:


small fast OLINE guys
over the hill defensive guys
LB's
not DL
thumping safeties
strong armed QB's
any small RB
Jason Elam
TE's
WR's going deep


for the most part that is gone folks time to realize there is a new school marm in town that came from the big city and is implementing things that worked and are tried and true..

[haroldthebarrel]

Pro bowl receivers really do not mean much unless they are team players LIKE MOSS was when he went .. Most of the time when you have a pro bowl WR they are primadonna and ball hogs..

which is about the worst thing you can have on a TEAM..

nice for the franchise to get props but past that usually means you are loser.. Unless of course your the SB winner then the entire team is going to the pro bowl..


as for the FO who the hell cares if we had 100 players on the board.. I read that as they looked at others and found them wanting in some area..

they did not fit our scheme, were not smart enough, not fast enough, were not TEAM players, not a position of dire need..

I suspect when he made that comment he was referring to the top 100 players not everyone they looked at over the season.. You for get they fired Goodman's a few days before the draft AFTER all the heavy scouting work was done..

Perhaps that is the reason they only had 100 players the Goodman's were to focused.. or were not looking for what Josh wanted.. perhaps Josh found them wanting in what he was looking for..

we will never know for sure what happened there, will we..


EVERYONE NEEDS to stop using the mikey model for what we have done.. and start thinking like all the other coaches in the NFL.

mike liked:


small fast OLINE guys
over the hill defensive guys
LB's
not DL
thumping safeties
strong armed QB's
any small RB
Jason Elam
TE's
WR's going deep


for the most part that is gone folks time to realize there is a new school marm in town that came from the big city and is implementing things that worked and are tried and true..

you are answering questionmarks with more questionmarks.

All but two of them were good enough to take their team to the SB.
But you are missing the point.
There are more question marks and pieces who have to fit for this team to become a better team without Marshall than with.

And even if we are quite succesful drafting. We are likely looking at at least a three year period for these young guys to get to the level to get us to the SB.

And finally, doesnt it often seem like winning make dysfunctional players functional? (As you bring up the Moss case(as well as TO)).

[horsepig]

The question is, do you take the bad with the good?

It's pretty damn nice having a player around can that break really big plays almost every game. Those guys are rare, if you have one keep him, IMHO.

[OaklandRaider]

Marshall is good, but I don't think a team would be willing to part ways with a 1st round pick for a Headcase WR, who is one DUI away from getting suspended for 8 games. And then add on top of that, Marshall has been the most targeted WR in the NFL over the last two years. His numbers are kind of inflated, and I personally don't believe he is as good as the numbers he's put up the last two years.

A 2nd round pick and a conditional 4th should do it.

[Lonestar]

you are answering questionmarks with more questionmarks.

All but two of them were good enough to take their team to the SB.
But you are missing the point.
There are more question marks and pieces who have to fit for this team to become a better team without Marshall than with.

And even if we are quite succesful drafting. We are likely looking at at least a three year period for these young guys to get to the level to get us to the SB.

And finally, doesnt it often seem like winning make dysfunctional players functional? (As you bring up the Moss case(as well as TO)).

your correct about rookies taking time to get in the swing..

But over that past 10 years almost none of our drafted players have stuck with the team and we are so shallow at talent it may take 2-4 years for this to become a dynasty again..

I'd rather have solid play (Winning) for the next decade than flash in the pan and ISSUES every time the ass clown gets off the field of play..

[Lonestar]

Marshall is good, but I don't think a team would be willing to part ways with a 1st round pick for a Headcase WR, who is one DUI away from getting suspended for 8 games. And then add on top of that, Marshall has been the most targeted WR in the NFL over the last two years. His numbers are kind of inflated, and I personally don't believe he is as good as the numbers he's put up the last two years.

A 2nd round pick and a conditional 4th should do it.

I agree but if someone is dumb enough to offer a first I'd take it in a heart beat..

[OrangeHoof]

I don't think a team would be willing to part ways with a 1st round pick for a Headcase WR, who is one DUI away from getting suspended for 8 games.

Well, except maybe the Raiders. What did they give up for Moss??

Heck, what did they give Javon Walker?

[Superchop 7]

It's a fair swap, let him go to a winner.

[Nomad]

I highly doubt Marshall gets traded, at least for a 1st round pick. There is just too much baggage there for a team to take the risk. Especially at this point in time with his court date still lingering.

I'd be surprised if a team would trade for Marshall. You know it's numbing to be at this point to know what talent Marshall has, but is it too much to ask for these pro athletes to grow up, become men, and stay out of trouble.

Also, the real question is: Is Marshall as good as he was before the surgery? He hasn't been on the field to prove himself and like you said with pending legal issues whose willing to take the chance. Sure one can say pay him for his past accomplishments, but legal issues are still an issue of his past. One can say he is a pro bowl player, well 5 months ago when we ripped Cutler and Marshall for stinking up the pro bowl with their play, people claimed the pro bowl is overrated and nothing to take seriously.....so I don't(and if the pro bowl was voted at the end of last season you'd be lucky to see a BRONCO make it).

Chris Carter (oh the irony) has a seminar for the new rookies basically telling them to live the moment and stay away from trouble as pro football players. Why many don't listen is beyond me!!!!

[Ravage!!!]

back to the "I wasn't attempting to trade, only answering the phone" lol

[Ravage!!!]

letting this guy go, for a first round pick...and simply 'doing it in a heartbeat'... is the kind of mentality that has denver lacking in talent. Thats why our DL is as weak as it is, because we TRADED or let go of the talent we HAD instead of actually bucking up, and keeping the GOOD (and VERY good) players that are on the team.

First round picks are NOT a lock to be solid NFL players. Marshall is already MUCH more than a solid player in the nfl.. he's a VERY GOOD player in the NFL. Trading him away for a 'hope'.... just doesn't make sense.

[underrated29]

letting this guy go, for a first round pick...and simply 'doing it in a heartbeat'... is the kind of mentality that has denver lacking in talent. Thats why our DL is as weak as it is, because we TRADED or let go of the talent we HAD instead of actually bucking up, and keeping the GOOD (and VERY good) players that are on the team.

First round picks are NOT a lock to be solid NFL players. Marshall is already MUCH more than a solid player in the nfl.. he's a VERY GOOD player in the NFL. Trading him away for a 'hope'.... just doesn't make sense.



exactly, people keep saying i would rather have many future winning seasons than a flash in the pan with marshall. Or we dont need his crap, lets ship him out for what we can get.


We will not have winning seasons in the future by throwing away our two best talents in one offseason. Its not hard to figure out.

We might get a 1st rd talent, and he might not bust. But then again. He might bust.



Or we can keep the guys we have, give them a contract they deserve and have easily outplayed, and start to look forward to winning seasons.

[Elevation inc]

teams arent even biting on a healthy proven wideout like anquan boldin for a first rd pick, marshalls good but he has way to many question marks to justify a top ten pick by many GM's at this point, that being said he is elite talent and i would be pissed if we got anything less than a top ten pick if he was in fact traded.....


All we can pray for is some GM like a AL davis clone out there chomping at the bit ready to drop a top 5 pick in our laps.....lol


however that still wont replace the loss of what marshall would bring to the field this year

[Denver27og]

cutler and marshall played thier assses off for the broncos... you guys are so quick to turn on broncos players... they both deserved pay raises.. but when u bring a backup qb like simms and pay him double what cutler is to make on the year and guys like gaffney and pay them as much as marshall it doesnt make sense to me... these guys deserved alot more money than they were getting.. the broncos are freakin idiots.. if i was a broncos player and read the way you guys were dissing on cutler and bmarsh i would never want to play for denver... b*tches!!!!

[Lonestar]

exactly, people keep saying i would rather have many future winning seasons than a flash in the pan with marshall. Or we dont need his crap, lets ship him out for what we can get.


We will not have winning seasons in the future by throwing away our two best talents in one offseason. Its not hard to figure out.

We might get a 1st rd talent, and he might not bust. But then again. He might bust.



Or we can keep the guys we have, give them a contract they deserve and have easily outplayed, and start to look forward to winning seasons.

your correct about potentially not getting a good players for Marshall..


But right now we have a head case that may or may not be able to say on the field for the next five years..

as for paying him for his past accomplishments.. folks he was paid..

he was a 4th round draft choice and made up wards of 2 million last year and is scheduled for 2.2 next year..

we rolled the dice on him as a 4th a few years ago and signed him to a contract knowing that the vast majority of WR are busts or not worth the money they were given coming out of college..

now he showed he is worth more in last years scheme, the real questions are:


is he the same player physically

is his arm ever going to be the same as it was before the "accident"

was his hip fixed and as good or better than before..

will he be a continual legal issue

is he the same player mentally

will he be used as much in the upcoming scheme


until we get answers for those questions and probably a few more he has IMHO not earned the right to a new contract.. or if they give him one he needs to sign one that is heavily incentivized..



last but not least we got lucky with marshall and if one can turn a fourth into a first that will Potentially will have four more years in Denver than Marshall will with less off the field issues yes I would do that in a heart beat..

having a great player taking up cap space and in Jail or suspended does us ZERO in winning games if not doing the absolute the opposite.. It cuases locker room issues, with teammates wondering if the maroon is going to be suspended for his latest moronic move..


If you can guarantee he will get it together yes I'd like to keep him as he could make us better..

but I doubt anyone on this forum would put their own money as a insurance that he will be there as good as before.. yet they expect Pat to gamble his money on a sure loser.. right now Marshall is not even, EVEN money on being the player his could be potentially..

[WARHORSE]

Marshall is good, but I don't think a team would be willing to part ways with a 1st round pick for a Headcase WR, who is one DUI away from getting suspended for 8 games. And then add on top of that, Marshall has been the most targeted WR in the NFL over the last two years. His numbers are kind of inflated, and I personally don't believe he is as good as the numbers he's put up the last two years.

A 2nd round pick and a conditional 4th should do it.


A second round pick and a conditional 4th?


Are you related to Al Davis?

Thats like saying Darius Heyward Bey is worth the seventh pick in the draft.....................absolutely astonishing.


Regardless of targeting or what, the man caught 18 passes on one of the better corners in the league.

Let me repeat that:


18.

Overated WRs dont catch 18 passes in a single game fella. And he played the rest of the year hurt.

Brandon wont be going anywhere for less than what hes worth.

[Lonestar]

A second round pick and a conditional 4th?


Are you related to Al Davis?

Thats like saying Darius Heyward Bey is worth the seventh pick in the draft.....................absolutely astonishing.


Regardless of targeting or what, the man caught 18 passes on one of the better corners in the league.

Let me repeat that:


18.

Overated WRs dont catch 18 passes in a single game fella. And he played the rest of the year hurt.

Brandon wont be going anywhere for less than what hes worth.

a good players when he is in the game no doubt about it.. great come back.. aloha..

[underrated29]

If and all i can say for now is IF. But if Brandon plays for us this year, you will see what he does on the field. And you will see what having an amazing RB on your team will do to open him up and let him showcase his talent.

Only problem is, i cant say for sure he will be here to play with us. I pray he does.

[Lonestar]

If and all i can say for now is IF. But if Brandon plays for us this year, you will see what he does on the field. And you will see what having an amazing RB on your team will do to open him up and let him showcase his talent.

Only problem is, i cant say for sure he will be here to play with us. I pray he does.



if he plays?

right now he does not have any other options.. play or sit at home..

[Tempus Fugit]

If and all i can say for now is IF. But if Brandon plays for us this year, you will see what he does on the field. And you will see what having an amazing RB on your team will do to open him up and let him showcase his talent.

Only problem is, i cant say for sure he will be here to play with us. I pray he does.

Don't get too nuts over Moreno. He's not going to get huge amounts of playing time on downs other than the first unless he can block and pick up blitzers. The system just can't handle a RB that can't do that.

[rcsodak]

exactly, people keep saying i would rather have many future winning seasons than a flash in the pan with marshall. Or we dont need his crap, lets ship him out for what we can get.


We will not have winning seasons in the future by throwing away our two best talents in one offseason. Its not hard to figure out.

We might get a 1st rd talent, and he might not bust. But then again. He might bust.



Or we can keep the guys we have, give them a contract they deserve and have easily outplayed, and start to look forward to winning seasons.

So now that you've played devil's advocate FOR marshall....


How about if he get's 'paid', and then gets in trouble again?

How does his having "easily outplayed" his current contract benefit the team down the road? As I see it, all it does is reward him for past performance. NOWHERE does it push him to greatness, or make certain that he'll live up to the big bucks. He could become another Javon Walker, and fade away into the night, right after his 'big payday'.

I don't think Mr Bowlen is that extravagant......

[rcsodak]

cutler and marshall played thier assses off for the broncos... you guys are so quick to turn on broncos players... they both deserved pay raises.. but when u bring a backup qb like simms and pay him double what cutler is to make on the year and guys like gaffney and pay them as much as marshall it doesnt make sense to me... these guys deserved alot more money than they were getting.. the broncos are freakin idiots.. if i was a broncos player and read the way you guys were dissing on cutler and bmarsh i would never want to play for denver... b*tches!!!!

:laugh: I'm guessing 16yo!

When you're able to understand contracts, playing experience, years of service, et al.....


.....let us know. :lol:

[rcsodak]

Don't get too nuts over Moreno. He's not going to get huge amounts of playing time on downs other than the first unless he can block and pick up blitzers. The system just can't handle a RB that can't do that.

Well, last I read, McD says he's performing swimmingly!!!!!

[OaklandRaider]

A second round pick and a conditional 4th?


Are you related to Al Davis?

Thats like saying Darius Heyward Bey is worth the seventh pick in the draft.....................absolutely astonishing.


Regardless of targeting or what, the man caught 18 passes on one of the better corners in the league.

Let me repeat that:


18.

Overated WRs dont catch 18 passes in a single game fella. And he played the rest of the year hurt.

Brandon wont be going anywhere for less than what hes worth.

Let's not forget who he caught the majority of those passes against. Antonio Cromartie, who was stastically the worst cornerback in the AFC last season. Also, the Chargers ranked 31st in pass defense. I think Marshall is very talented but I just think that his numbers are a bit inflated and he is a little bit overrated. He has been by far the most targeted player these last two years. Jay Cutler would throw dude the ball in triple coeverage at times. I think Brandon Marshall knows this, which is why he was trying to get his cash now before he played with the way lesser QB in Kyle Orton, and Josh McDaniels new offense.

But that's not really my main point. I don't think any team would be willing to part ways with a first round pick for a troubled WR like Marshall. Who, as I mentioned earlier, is one screw up away from getting suspended Pac Man Jones style.

Hell, the Cardinals didn't even get a first round pick offered to them for Anquan freaking Boldin, who is way more talented than Marshall, and doesn't have any off the field screw ups. The Giants didn't even want to give up a first round pick for Braylon Edwards, who IMO is also better than Marshall.

I would very surprised if you guys get a first for Marshall. I think a 2nd and a conditional 4th (or a role player on defense) is a very good deal for both sides.

[underrated29]

Don't get too nuts over Moreno. He's not going to get huge amounts of playing time on downs other than the first unless he can block and pick up blitzers. The system just can't handle a RB that can't do that.



Yes he will!!! He is going to get tons of reps, passes, yards and blocks with us. I dont know if you wanted us to draft him. But quite a few of us did, and we were advocating this before we drafted him. I dont just think he will be awesome because he is a bronco. I saw he was awesome well before then. Knowshon has a strong chance for OROY. Watch and see.



So now that you've played devil's advocate FOR marshall....


How about if he get's 'paid', and then gets in trouble again?

How does his having "easily outplayed" his current contract benefit the team down the road? As I see it, all it does is reward him for past performance. NOWHERE does it push him to greatness, or make certain that he'll live up to the big bucks. He could become another Javon Walker, and fade away into the night, right after his 'big payday'.

I don't think Mr Bowlen is that extravagant......


He could become another Javon Walker. But unfortunately thats how the NFL works. They rarley make contracts that push the players. Why do you think we always here about players who get paid, fade away. Because thats how the contracts are written...Yes they have clauses for probowls, yards, tds etc etc. Which can have big escalators and incentives, but thats the game we play. You pay the player and hope he continues his current play.


and you and brandon and everyone else know that there will a plethora of blue pill clauses in the language to let the broncos escape and re-coup money if brandon was to get suspended, busted by cops etc etc.

[Lonestar]

Yes he will!!! He is going to get tons of reps, passes, yards and blocks with us. I dont know if you wanted us to draft him. But quite a few of us did, and we were advocating this before we drafted him. I dont just think he will be awesome because he is a bronco. I saw he was awesome well before then. Knowshon has a strong chance for OROY. Watch and see.





He could become another Javon Walker. But unfortunately thats how the NFL works. They rarley make contracts that push the players. Why do you think we always here about players who get paid, fade away. Because thats how the contracts are written...Yes they have clauses for probowls, yards, tds etc etc. Which can have big escalators and incentives, but thats the game we play. You pay the player and hope he continues his current play.


and you and brandon and everyone else know that there will a plethora of blue pill clauses in the language to let the broncos escape and re-coup money if brandon was to get suspended, busted by cops etc etc.


the real issue is we should not be trying to re-coup money from him IF he gets into trouble but the contract should be worded to incentivized him into not falling back into old habits and lifestyles..

I think we all know that if he gets it all up front the chance of getting it back are slim to none.. especially if he is in money problems now.

a contract that says if he does not go to jail for this open court date he gets more money as a "no" go to jail bonus.. also for any honors he gets he gets incentive too..

I think his signing bonus should be handed out yearly as he stays out of trouble.. call it a roster bonus..

[rcsodak]

the real issue is we should not be trying to re-coup money from him IF he gets into trouble but the contract should be worded to incentivized him into not falling back into old habits and lifestyles..

I think we all know that if he gets it all up front the chance of getting it back are slim to none.. especially if he is in money problems now.

a contract that says if he does not go to jail for this open court date he gets more money as a "no" go to jail bonus.. also for any honors he gets he gets incentive too..

I think his signing bonus should be handed out yearly as he stays out of trouble.. call it a roster bonus..

I like the 'consecutive 1yr contracts' that I heard mentioned on Sirius NFL Radio.

They're under contract and play....then the next spring, if nothing bad has happened and the FO is still happy, then he receives a roster/signing bonus, and is under contract for that year.....et al.
If he screws up after any year, the team is out from under the following years which means no dead cap money.

[Lonestar]

I like the 'consecutive 1yr contracts' that I heard mentioned on Sirius NFL Radio.

They're under contract and play....then the next spring, if nothing bad has happened and the FO is still happy, then he receives a roster/signing bonus, and is under contract for that year.....et al.
If he screws up after any year, the team is out from under the following years which means no dead cap money.

But I doubt he would sign that type contract.. he wants/needs that money up front.. Now if it were held in an escrow type account that allowed us to get it back and it was released to him as specified by the contract then I would have no reason to NOT want to sign him to a better multi year contract..

That way we have zero risk to him faking he was alright to get the signing bonus and then when we find out he is not the money is already spent. IIRC like dale carter..


I really think he is not right with the hand more so than the hip..

[dogfish]

I like the 'consecutive 1yr contracts' that I heard mentioned on Sirius NFL Radio.

They're under contract and play....then the next spring, if nothing bad has happened and the FO is still happy, then he receives a roster/signing bonus, and is under contract for that year.....et al.
If he screws up after any year, the team is out from under the following years which means no dead cap money.

that's nothing but a fantasy. . . the ONLY way that's going to happen is if the "one-year contract" is the franchise tag applied several years in a row. . . but there is no way he-- or any other player-- would go for that once he gets to unrestrcited free agency. . . why would he? these guys alllll want the security of a big, long-term contract. . . and someone will give it to him. . . jerry jones, dan snyder and al davis all come immediately to mind. . . hell, the cryptkeeper gave javon walker fifty million when the entire world could see that he was stone cold finished-- how much do you think the old corpse would pay marshall?

we do have options to restrict or prevent his movement for the next few years (depending on how things work out with the CBA) through some combination of an RFA tender and/or the tag-- or we have the option to give him the fat contract he desires. . . but a series of one year deals isn't happening. . . any agent that let his client take a deal like that would never work again. . .

[rcsodak]

that's nothing but a fantasy. . . the ONLY way that's going to happen is if the "one-year contract" is the franchise tag applied several years in a row. . . but there is no way he-- or any other player-- would go for that once he gets to unrestrcited free agency. . . why would he? these guys alllll want the security of a big, long-term contract. . . and someone will give it to him. . . jerry jones, dan snyder and al davis all come immediately to mind. . . hell, the cryptkeeper gave javon walker fifty million when the entire world could see that he was stone cold finished-- how much do you think the old corpse would pay marshall?

we do have options to restrict or prevent his movement for the next few years (depending on how things work out with the CBA) through some combination of an RFA tender and/or the tag-- or we have the option to give him the fat contract he desires. . . but a series of one year deals isn't happening. . . any agent that let his client take a deal like that would never work again. . .

Fine.....

...then he sits on his ass and makes nothing.

Whatever works..... :coffee:

[Simple Jaded]

A series of one-year-contracts and sit on your ass? Broncos fans sure drive a hard bargain.......

[DenBronx]

id like to see us trade him straight up for boldin but that is highly unlikely. might as well pay a guy that has no legal issues. boldin is actually alot like marshall on the field but scores more td's.

but a 1st sounds good too. however, i'm not confident in seeing mcdaniels do another draft. it would be sweet if we somehow did get a 1st and land taylor mays.

[Simple Jaded]

Somebody made a good point about the 30-or-so players on Doogie's draft board in that's about all the players he had the time to scout himself in depth.......even if he replaced every single incumbent scout with his own, who could blame him for wanting to scout every possible player himself and not completely trusting the current scouting system, especially after he just fired one of the few FO personnel with a good reputation to keep a Numbers Geek for a GM.

Maybe the seemingly short list of prospects had as much to do with not trusting his scouts yet as it does with his arrogance, which led to reaches and stupidity. One thing is certain, this off-season is all on him, he won't have to share the blame, nor the credit.......

[rcsodak]

A series of one-year-contracts and sit on your ass? Broncos fans sure drive a hard bargain.......

It's not an "and" thing, link....


....but an "OR" thing.

[rcsodak]

Somebody made a good point about the 30-or-so players on Doogie's draft board in that's about all the players he had the time to scout himself in depth.......even if he replaced every single incumbent scout with his own, who could blame him for wanting to scout every possible player himself and not completely trusting the current scouting system, especially after he just fired one of the few FO personnel with a good reputation to keep a Numbers Geek for a GM.

Maybe the seemingly short list of prospects had as much to do with not trusting his scouts yet as it does with his arrogance, which led to reaches and stupidity. One thing is certain, this off-season is all on him, he won't have to share the blame, nor the credit.......

Eyes wide shut :coffee:

[Simple Jaded]

It's not an "and" thing, link....


....but an "OR" thing.

He's got two choices, I get it.......Choice No1: Sign a series of one-year deals......And choice No2: Sit on your ass.

:clapping:.......

[Lonestar]

Somebody made a good point about the 30-or-so players on Doogie's draft board in that's about all the players he had the time to scout himself in depth.......even if he replaced every single incumbent scout with his own, who could blame him for wanting to scout every possible player himself and not completely trusting the current scouting system, especially after he just fired one of the few FO personnel with a good reputation to keep a Numbers Geek for a GM.

Maybe the seemingly short list of prospects had as much to do with not trusting his scouts yet as it does with his arrogance, which led to reaches and stupidity. One thing is certain, this off-season is all on him, he won't have to share the blame, nor the credit.......


not sure where you or someone got 30 or so players on the draft board..

but to set the record straight he said they had a hundred they were interested in on the board..

Since the scouts and Goodman's were all here for the entire season and the Goodman's were let go two weeks before the draft what make anyone think the heavy lifting was not already done..

the film was all in, the reports written and it was then in the hands of the Assistant coaches to eye ball them and do the final grade on them.. afterall they are the guys that have to coach them and bringing someone on board the LB does not like is stupid..

Then it was time for Xman, Josh and his coaches to set up there draft board in the war room....

I'm just guessing on this but I'd say they had grades on many more than just the top 100 they had on their DRAFT board.. Players they felt were worthy of getting a rookie contract in rounds 1-7.. and I'd guess that a couple of their UDFA were also on that board and I'm sure they had all been scouted..

Why a few of you have to denigrate the guy just because he does not do things like our ex failed coach did is way beyond my comprehension..

Had Pat wanted to maintain that failed system he would have forced mike to resign as GM and hired a Pro GM and defensive staff..

It is time for Y'all to get it.. mike is gone and Josh is here and will sink or swim doing it his way not mikes, als or bills for that matter.. but we may just want to give him a chance before sending someone out for tar and feathers before he has even feilded a team....

[Simple Jaded]

not sure where you or someone got 30 or so players on the draft board..

but to set the record straight he said they had a hundred they were interested in on the board..

Since the scouts and Goodman's were all here for the entire season and the Goodman's were let go two weeks before the draft what make anyone think the heavy lifting was not already done..

the film was all in, the reports written and it was then in the hands of the Assistant coaches to eye ball them and do the final grade on them.. afterall they are the guys that have to coach them and bringing someone on board the LB does not like is stupid..

Then it was time for Xman, Josh and his coaches to set up there draft board in the war room....

I'm just guessing on this but I'd say they had grades on many more than just the top 100 they had on their DRAFT board.. Players they felt were worthy of getting a rookie contract in rounds 1-7.. and I'd guess that a couple of their UDFA were also on that board and I'm sure they had all been scouted..

Why a few of you have to denigrate the guy just because he does not do things like our ex failed coach did is way beyond my comprehension..

Had Pat wanted to maintain that failed system he would have forced mike to resign as GM and hired a Pro GM and defensive staff..

It is time for Y'all to get it.. mike is gone and Josh is here and will sink or swim doing it his way not mikes, als or bills for that matter.. but we may just want to give him a chance before sending someone out for tar and feathers before he has even feilded a team....

I was not "Denigrating" the guy, I'm actually defending him if, in fact, he had only 30 (or 100, whatever) players on his board.......defending the mistakes it caused is your job.

I have no doubt that the heavy lifting was already done, but I would hope that Doogie prefered to scout these players himself (Extensively) rather than simply trust whomever did said heavy lifting, and that maybe he didn't have time to do so with more than 30 players.

That's my point, and if you weren't so militant at your job, maybe you'd see that I'm saying that maybe that's a good thing.......

[rcsodak]

I was not "Denigrating" the guy, I'm actually defending him if, in fact, he had only 30 (or 100, whatever) players on his board.......defending the mistakes it caused is your job.

I have no doubt that the heavy lifting was already done, but I would hope that Doogie prefered to scout these players himself (Extensively) rather than simply trust whomever did said heavy lifting, and that maybe he didn't have time to do so with more than 30 players.

That's my point, and if you weren't so militant at your job, maybe you'd see that I'm saying that maybe that's a good thing.......

LMAO!!!!

If it's "militant" that makes a person reading your posts see nothing but your never-ending bashing of McD, then I guess I'm still in the desert
greens.....:laugh:

I'm not sure you have the ability to say anything PRO-McD.....

....which is scary, since he hasn't even called a play yet. :rolleyes:

[CoachChaz]

Militant...as in puting together a group that works to achieve one goal and is responsible for fulfilling thier expectations and actions for the benefit of the the whole group.

No wonder he hates McDaniels

[Ravage!!!]

we have every right to criticize the coach up to this point. This is all we have. We are judging the coach, on what we know with the information we have been given and seen. UP to this point, we have EVERY RIGHT to judge on THAT information. We don't have to do the 'wait and see' until he calls a play to say, from what we have RIGHT NOW, criticisms on how he has handled anything this offseason. We judge ALLL coaches on their offseason moves... whether they are young, old, vet or rookie at their profession.

As of right now... judging from his perfomance THIS offseason... I have EVERY RIGHT to feel that he is an immature and arrogant HC.

That being the case, I'm sure he feels he can do without guys like Cutler and Marshall. We won't know if he will trade Marshall away... but I won't be surprised if he 'just picks up the phone' again.

I think we would be absolutely stupid... stupid... to trade Marshall away. Taking a chance on that kind of talent FAR outweighs the bird in the bush.

[dogfish]

we have every right to criticize the coach up to this point. This is all we have. We are judging the coach, on what we know with the information we have been given and seen. UP to this point, we have EVERY RIGHT to judge on THAT information. We don't have to do the 'wait and see' until he calls a play to say, from what we have RIGHT NOW, criticisms on how he has handled anything this offseason. We judge ALLL coaches on their offseason moves... whether they are young, old, vet or rookie at their profession.

As of right now... judging from his perfomance THIS offseason... I have EVERY RIGHT to feel that he is an immature and arrogant HC.

That being the case, I'm sure he feels he can do without guys like Cutler and Marshall. We won't know if he will trade Marshall away... but I won't be surprised if he 'just picks up the phone' again.

I think we would be absolutely stupid... stupid... to trade Marshall away. Taking a chance on that kind of talent FAR outweighs the bird in the bush.


oh, shut up and get in line!


:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

oh, shut up and get in line!


:lol:

:lol: this the line for the bathroom?? :elefant: <---really has to go