kyle orton...the anti-cutler ! [Archive]

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 10:15 AM

maybe this isnt "thread-worthy" but i found this to be an interesting take on the trade... its copied from a bears fan on db.com
it goes a long way towards explaining the kind of guy we got in orton,and though, like all of us, i never had a clue that we would have kyle orton as our starting qb in 09'( or any season for that matter)
but those are the cards we've been dealt and i think it could be alot worse !

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Broncos get a steal at QB
First I must say I am surprised the trade for Cutler didn't involve going through NE (Kevin O'Connell).

So having watched Orton for more than a few years now I will explain who and what Kyle Orton is. Because the rest of the NFL has next to no clue what Orton is!

Kyle Orton is the exact opposite of Jay Cutler. I mean this in every regard!

Orton is a soldier. He is not some spoiled prima dona who complains when things don't go his way. He deals with adversity and excels.

Kyle Orton was forced to start as a rookie. The change happened in an instant. Grossman got injured and Hutchinson stunk it up in preseason. So from game 1 to 3 of preseason he went from 3rd string to starter. Worst part was they wouldn't play Orton once moved to starter - they feared him getting injured. So Orton started his first NFL game with as little NFL experience as possible. He hardly played in preseason, let alone got snaps during camp.

Orton went out and was asked not to lose games. He did a decent job of it, but you could tell he was as raw as it gets. When Grossman got healthy at the very end of the season, Orton was kicked to the curb and sat watching Grossman play the playoff game. Grossman and other teammates insulted Orton during this season publicly. Moose Muhammed would berate Orton on the field in front of the world. When in reality Moose and the other receivers did Orton no favors leading the league in drops. Not a peep was heard from Orton.

I should mention during this season Orton did something stupid off the field. Orton got drunk at a bar during a bye week... on Sunday. Photos appeared of him getting crazy with football games on in the backround. It was obvious the Bears did not look kindly on this as they brought in Griese to backup Grossman the following season. Not a peep was heard out of Orton.

Orton sat while the team dragged Grossman to a Super Bowl. Not a peep was heard.

Orton sat for the majority of 2007. Grossman stunk it up and Griese started well, but petered out. Not a peep was heard from Orton. Then they finally gave Orton another chance to show how he improved. And he did just that in the 3 worst games of the year as far as weather is concerned. Orton showed he made significant strides from the time he was a rookie.

2008 began with a QB competition between Orton and Grossman. Orton said thank you. But it wouldn't be easy..... Rex Grossman is possibly the best practice QB in the world. That's because Grossman doesn't have to worry about getting hit. Anyway Orton squeeked it out and was named starter.

Being named starting QB of the Bears in 2008 was more of a punishment than a blessing. The Bears didn't have a single WR worth a lick. The offensive line was weak. And the defense started to fall apart. But Orton carried the team for the first half of the season. NFL experts were talking about Orton as an MVP candidate. Orton was willing an offense to succeed, despite little help from anyone outside of Forte. Orton got hurt at the midway point and rushed back because the team would be sunk without him. He took a long time to get healthy after the high ankle sprain and his play suffered. Orton got criticized for his play at the end of the season despite issues that weren't his fault (WRs stink, OL sucks, and a serious injury). Not a peep was heard of Orton.

Orton is a soldier. I mean that. Not in some Kellen Winslow type of way. Whatever happens to him, he just sucks it up and keeps moving forward. He is as smart as it gets. When people speak of his arm they misunderstand things completely. Orton can throw the deep ball, but shouldn't be called upon to do so throughout a game. His deep ball is improving, but lacks accuracy. the part people don't get is Orton is a fireballer. He has as strong an arm as anybody, tremendous velocity. In fact his fastballs were some of the reason Moose and others hated him. Orton would put so much heat on a ball WRs had a hard time catching it. He has improved in this area developing some touch. Orton improves every year! He is a good guy and somebody to root for.

I really believe you got a steal. Orton was working with crap and made crap castles in Chicago. He had what possibly the worst offensive coordinator, WRs, and offensive line. Having options like Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, and Hillis will make him much better than his 80 Qb rating suggests.

Make fun of McDaniels all you like. He doesn't like a gunslinger. So Cutler is out of the question. Orton is the exact opposite of a gunslinger, more like a sniper.

The trade works out great for both parties. Turner's Chicago offense actually does better with a gunslinger (WRs also can actually catch rainbows, not bullets). And McDaniels gets a extremely smart controlled fireballer who's realm is the mid to short game. Orton can will a team to win. The fact McDaniels got Orton tells me he knows what he is doing. Orton sounds like a perfect fit for his offense. And being able to comprehend how good Orton is/could be requires somebody capable of sorting through many layers of deception and cloudiness. Don't let yourselves be fooled by the talk that comes with Orton. Other teams recognized his abilities before 2008. In 2007 Atlanta offered a 3rd rounder for Orton and the Bears declined.

Kyle Orton is OLD SCHOOL. He doesn't have all the sexy attributes. His appearance is, well.... averag joe - but he's extremely sturdy. He is a good QB perfectly capable of winning a superbowl. Just don't ask him to do a lot of running outside of the pocket. He has great pocket prescence, but outside of the pocket he is... slow. Be prepared for Jaworski to torch him any chance he gets. Jaworski has a vendetta against him... I suppose he was compensating for what he thought criticism of Grossman was unfair.

BroncoNut

07-01-2009, 10:27 AM

interesting. Sounds highly fluffed. I'm sure a few peeps were heard from Orton out there somewhere

NightTrainLayne

07-01-2009, 10:29 AM

Nice read.

underrated29

07-01-2009, 10:38 AM

hmmm. I wouldnt agree with everything he said there. Orton does not throw fire balls, and some other things. But yes overrall he should work out fine for us.

Jay definitely does not throw rainbows. So this guy is clueless there. And I would label jay as a sniper too. But for the most part, that was enjoyable.

NameUsedBefore

07-01-2009, 10:38 AM

http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/portfolio/fluff.jpg

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 10:42 AM

and another good take.....

Jay Cutler no answer to Chicago Bears’ woes
Huddle up? Not with this confused quarterback

By Rick Morrissey
April 03, 2009

If Jay Cutler doesn’t raise red flags, Bears fans, you are color blind. From all appearances and indications, he has the maturity level of larva.

Two weeks ago, he demanded the Broncos trade him. On Wednesday, he said he had wanted to stay with the Broncos all along.

On Friday, I’m guessing he will say he’s ecstatic about the Bears and deep-dish pizza.

This is exactly the kind of steely resolve you want in your huddle, isn’t it?

Well, you’re about to get it. The Bears on Thursday traded their first- and third-round picks this year, their first-round pick next year and Kyle Orton to the Broncos in exchange for Cutler, a 2009 fifth-round pick and a six-pack of baby formula.

Here’s hoping Cutler gets his act together, but the past month hasn’t been what anyone would call “good.”

Mind-set is extremely important in the NFL, and no one seems to have any clue what Cutler’s is. On Wednesday, he talked with FoxSports.com, and it was as if he said, A guy demands to be traded and people actually take him seriously!“I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon,” he said before the deal was struck. “I didn’t want to get traded. This wasn’t me. [The Broncos] had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn’t.“I really didn’t want this. I love Denver. I really like my teammates. I didn’t want it to get this far.”

This has to be a land-speed record for revisionist history.

Let’s try to recall the chain of events. Cutler was severely miffed when the Broncos’ new coach included him in a proposed deal that would have brought then-New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver. Cutler pouted that the Broncos said bad things about him. Cutler insisted that he be traded.

More recently, he expressed surprise at the turn of events that put him on the trading block. He also said Denver never tried calling him over a 10-day span ending Tuesday, to which Broncos owner Pat Bowlen reportedly said: Would you care to see the telephone records?

And Cutler is the guy you want in your huddle, Bears fans?

If the Broncos wanted to punish him, they succeeded. They traded him to the Bears. He will get here and wonder where the Chicago versions of Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal are. And then general manager Jerry Angelo will have to put an arm around him and inform him the Bears don’t have any wide receivers.

John Elway in his prime would have a hard time succeeding with this group.

All we have heard the past few weeks is Cutler is better than Orton. And it’s true he’s more talented. But I’ll say it until I’m navy blue in the face: The Bears need wide receivers, not a quarterback. It’s why some of us were willing to put up with Terrell Owens. Putting up with Cutler doesn’t sound fun or necessary.

That didn’t stop the lust for him from reaching levels that would make Pamela Anderson blush. Few people in Chicago want to look beyond his gaudy stats. In the last three games of 2008, all losses, he threw two touchdown passes and four interceptions. The Broncos had a three-game division lead with three games left and didn’t make the playoffs.

Cutler was upset new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels showed him no respect. The quarterback forgot two things. First, he has been a starter for only two years in the NFL. Second, everyone in the league is a commodity and subject to the whims of the people who sign the paychecks.

It’s not personal. It’s business.

When it comes to throwing yourself at the Next Big Thing, Chicago is no different than any other city. Fans couldn’t wait for Rex Grossman to get a chance. Then they couldn’t wait for Orton to get a chance. Remember all the gushing over Orton last season until he hurt his ankle? And now fans can’t wait for somebody else. Until another somebody else walks by.

The Bears decided they had to get the quarterback position right. Translation: Angelo wasn’t sold on Orton and didn’t want to pay him. He’s about to pay Cutler a lot of money to be the leader on offense.

And those wide receivers the Bears desperately need—where will they come from when there are no draft picks or money?

Cutler said he loved everything about Denver, including the fans and his teammates. Yet he wanted out at the first hint of trouble. Why should anyone believe it will be different in Chicago?

LRtagger

07-01-2009, 10:44 AM

http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/portfolio/fluff.jpg

OH NO

http://pastorron7.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/end.jpg

Northman

07-01-2009, 10:48 AM

Good read.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 10:52 AM

From what I have seen of Orton (and I've seen a lot), that report is pretty much
on the money for Orton. I don't know why garbage like those receivers he had
would be justified in reviling him, however. They ought to have put more of that
attention toward catching passes . . .

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MasterShake

07-01-2009, 10:59 AM

I have a feeling that rebuilding and Offense in Chicago will be just as, if not tougher, then rebuilding our defense in Denver. By my crazy logic, plugging a good QB like Cutler into a sub-par offense= average offense. But putting an average QB like Orton into a great offense, with a system minded coach=good offense.

Even IF we still had Cutler, I'd be concerned about his decision making ability in the short game and his need to show off his arm. My main concern is still with the defense. I'll take a 21-10 win over a shootout any day. If we had lost those shootouts last year (1st SD game, New Orleans, etc.) it would have been really ugly. Even someone as talented our offense couldn't keep up towards the end of the season when teams knew they just had to shut down Marshall and the long range pass with a deep safety and their offense could score at will. We were one dimensional from November on.

A lot of that had to do with our stable of RB's being put down, but thats also why I'm really excited about Knowshon Moreno and our new veteran backs. Couple that with great TE and Hillis at FB (probably) I think for the first time since 2005 we will have a balanced attack on offense that keeps defenses on their toes. It may not be pretty, but the best part of the drive is the TD. I don't care if its a 70 yd strike from a canon arm, or an outlet pass in the flat to Eddie Royal who snakes his way in from 5 yds out on a throw from Orton. Last season we were pretty between the 20's, and downright ugly in the redzone. Oh, and hopefully Prater gets his act together, too.

Deep down I will miss Cutler when I see his highlights, but deeper down I think he will have a hard time adjusting in Chicago. My friend from Chicago Rob loves that they got Cutler from us, but even he thinks its stupid to have a new toy without a good supporting cast. He thinks they gave up to much for a QB who has never really won big games, too. We have a friendly wager on who will finish higher in their division (not wins/losses) so I'm hoping Orton does good enough!

Lonestar

07-01-2009, 11:34 AM

Everything I have read about Orton is he is a smart decision maker with a good arm not great but good..

Exactly what this spread offense needs for the most part this OLINE WAS not designed to pass protect FOREVER for long routes.. it was more designed for the ZBS and quick drop backs..

Josh wanted everyone to get bigger, faster and stronger.. I suspect we will not see many deep pass routes this coming year but lots of OPEN receivers being passed to instead..

jay IMO will struggle in CHI without all the toys he had in DEN.. and the one comment about their OC is pretty much spot on.. remember he was the coach at U of IL that could not see jay as a QB but only wanted him as a safety..

IMO not a awe inspiring OC..

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 12:36 PM

still more on the subject.......
April 03, 2009
Who's the Real Winner in Cutler Deal?
by Tanner Munroe

Kyle Orton, of course.
The latest blockbuster deal in the NFL has drawn together varying opinions of who benefits most. Is it the Chicago Bears, who received franchise-quarterback Jay Cutler and a 2009 fifth round pick? Or is it the Denver Broncos, who receive “Not-so Franchise” QB Kyle Orton, a first and third round pick this year and a first round pick next year? The answer is neither. The big winner out of this deal is Kyle Orton.

Clearly this relies on other factors, including whether or not the Broncos decide to even give him the chance to earn the starting job, or if they’ll trade up in the draft to get either Mark Sanchez or Matthew Stafford. It also banks on the fact that Orton can beat out Chris Simms for the starting job. But if they give Orton a chance, he really could be successful, forcing fans to see Orton in a new light in 2009.

First of all, Orton has a career 20-12 record as a starter in the NFL. Although Chicago’s defense is a big part of that, Orton still found ways to at least not lose games. Secondly, he gets to play for a coach who was the offensive coordinator for the Patriots when Tom Brady threw 50 touchdowns. McDaniels not only called the plays when Brady had his video-game type season, but then in just one season he was able to mold Matt Cassell, who hadn’t started a game since high school, into one of the most coveted QB’s this off-season. Plus, there hasn’t really been a good QB in Chicago since Jim McMahon. So maybe it’s not the guys they bring in, but the system they run.

Third, Orton steps onto a team that has some great receivers. He’ll get to throw to stud Brandon Marshall, young star Eddie Royal, and great role players like Brandon Stokley and TE Tony Scheffler. Compare that to the Bears, a team that was led in receptions by their running back in 2008, and I think you can see how Denver might be a better fit for Orton. Finally, Denver has better weather conditions for QB’s (barely). Besides playing a mile above sea level, which should help make deep throws a bit easier, Orton won’t have to deal with the Windy City anymore. Honestly, how can a place with “Windy” in its title be good for a guy whose job is to throw a ball?

A lot of people have already taken the other side on this subject, and really don’t think Orton will amount to much at all, including Mike Florio.

Regardless, the drama will continue in Denver. Unless they think Kyle Orton is the answer.

OK, I think I peed a little while laughing at that one.

But if Orton gets the chance to lead the Broncos next season, Florio, and others, may owe the Lord of the Neckbeards an apology. Or at least a drink.

Photo via Deadspin

tumbana

07-01-2009, 12:45 PM

Lonestar

07-01-2009, 12:47 PM

thanks for your unsight:salute:

debbie downer..

GEM

07-01-2009, 12:48 PM

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/Hindaril/didntread.gif

No, the Broncos did not get a "steal." They got an average at best QB who will downgrade their passing game. He's not Tom Brady and he's not Peyton Manning. He's not Joe Montana. He's Kyle Orton. Everything I read from you, KO8p-I mean TKO, I think I'm reading about some hall of famer.

And Cutlers stats won't be so padded with no one to throw it to. Cutler is no Brady, Manning or Montana...he hasn't won ish to be brought up in the same conversation with those 3.

See how that works. You throw us the cons of Kyle Orton and we can throw just as many back about Cutler.

Lonestar

07-01-2009, 12:50 PM

And Cutlers stats won't be so padded with no one to throw it to. Cutler is no Brady, Manning or Montana...he hasn't won ish to be brought up in the same conversation with those 3.

Outstanding zinger..

jay has done nothing but pad his stats in DEN, while not leading them to do anything but lose..

does he have potential absolutely.. but then so did HC killer Jeff George..

topscribe

07-01-2009, 12:57 PM

You guys are being sucked into a Cutler vs. Orton pissing match. I saw that
happen over on Mania, and that was incited by Tumbana, too. :nod:

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LRtagger

07-01-2009, 12:59 PM

We will be fine wih Orton....and if we aren't, well his contract is up after the year. We wouldn't be winning any playoff games this year even with Cutler so if Orton can pick up the system and be an efficient passer, then it will be a steal.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 01:14 PM

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/Hindaril/didntread.gif

No, the Broncos did not get a "steal." They got an average at best QB who will downgrade their passing game. He's not Tom Brady and he's not Peyton Manning. He's not Joe Montana. He's Kyle Orton. Everything I read from you, KO8p-I mean TKO, I think I'm reading about some hall of famer.

what is KO8p ? and i have said multiple times that orton does not have the talent cutler has....wtf is up with the tude dude?
ive never said anything except that orton could do pretty well in mcd's system.and even i know thats only wishfull thinking at this point (til we actually see the team on the field)
these are simply other opinions i found on different sites....sheesh
you must be a fan of a crappy team to be so angry.
glad i could help you get it out of your system....:welcome:

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:16 PM

And Cutlers stats won't be so padded with no one to throw it to. Cutler is no Brady, Manning or Montana...he hasn't won ish to be brought up in the same conversation with those 3.

See how that works. You throw us the cons of Kyle Orton and we can throw just as many back about Cutler.

You're right, his total yards stats won't be padded thanks to the worst starting field position in the NFL, a horrible defense, and throwing the ball 616 times. However, his TDs will go up, his YPR will go up, and INTs will go down thanks to better and more balanced play calling and outstanding red zone targets. You can remember I said this, by the way.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 01:20 PM

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/Hindaril/didntread.gif

Everything I read from you, KO8p-I mean TKO, I think I'm reading about some hall of famer.

i guess you would find it amusing if i made up some super clever "play on words" for your screen name as well.....

like "dumbanana" or "tubmama"
but i wont because that sort of behavior is beneath me !;)

NightTrainLayne

07-01-2009, 01:21 PM

topscribe

07-01-2009, 01:22 PM

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:29 PM

Play calling? :pound:

And red zone targets? Two TEs? You need WRs. Lloyd is gone. He was the
only one among the WRs who could beat anybody in the red zone.

No watch football much?

Now, let's see: the topic . . . oh yeah, Orton. :focus:

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Yes, two very good TEs and Kellen Davis is also another outstanding TE pass catching TE. Olsen often gets lines up at WR in the Red zone also the Bears have an outstanding duel-threat RB.

Brandon Lloyd? LOL! He played like 3 games.

Yes, lets get on topis, I don't want to have to own you again.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 01:35 PM

MasterShake

07-01-2009, 01:39 PM

Yes, two very good TEs and Kellen Davis is also another outstanding TE pass catching TE. Olsen often gets lines up at WR in the Red zone also the Bears have an outstanding duel-threat RB.

Brandon Lloyd? LOL! He played like 3 games.

Yes, lets get on topis, I don't want to have to own you again.

Who's owning who? Last time I checked the preseason is still over a month away and training camp hasn't even started. All this saber rattling and chest thumping is going to be a moot point until we see what happens. Until then, this is nothing but a bunch of homers with baseless speculation saying, "OH YEAH??!"

Teams will adjust to whatever schemes the Broncos or the Bears run next year, you can't point out good TE sets or RB's because the good teams will take that away from you. Any QB, Cutler, Orton, Manning-doesn't matter-will suck if they have to throw 40 times a game. The key this season is keeping the defense guessing, and we'll see who does a better job of that when the season starts. Until then, this offseason is really boring. At least the Rockies are doing good and the Nuggets made things easier too!

Bottom line, Cutler will probably do fine and Orton may do better than expected. Its too early to start waiting in line for Super Bowl tickets, especially in regards to the Broncos or the Bears! I hope every year to make the playoffs, and thats my goal again. Anything beyond that is just frosting. Damn, I'm hungry now. Gotta go!

topscribe

07-01-2009, 01:40 PM

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:41 PM

and you talk about me talking orton up?
that will be pretty unlikely considering forte will get far more td's than broncos rb's did last year,combined with the FACT that cutler went from having one of the best recieving corps in the league to one of the worst !

everybody hush.......we dont want to wake this homer up !:lol:

I wasn't kidding. Just because the Bears WRs are inexperience doesn't mean they aren't talented. I mean, it's not like Cutler didn't throw to a 4th round pick and a guy who picked in the 2nd round and they performed right away. I wonder why? Oh yeah, because Cutler actually has an effect on WRs believe it or not. I believe he's the one who throws the ball. As for Forte, just because they have him doesn't mean they won't throw. They have thrown a pretty fair amount the last couple of years. They have not been a complete run-first team like people say. Not to mention Cutler will have outstanding TEs and pass catching RBs. The Bears are also extremely good at YAC.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:42 PM

Yes, you're good at ownage, aren't you? Like . . . um . . . how come I haven't
seen you over at Mania lately? Did you own too much, or what? :coffee:

But it's funny Olsen had to line up at WR. That is very revealing . . .

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How is it very revealing? Have you seen him play? He's a complete mismatch. They drafted him for that reason.

Yes, I did my fair share of owning at Mania. Thanks for reminding me :).

MasterShake

07-01-2009, 01:44 PM

How is it very revealing? Have you seen him play? He's a complete mismatch. They drafted him for that reason.

Yes, I did my fair share of owning at Mania. Thanks for reminding me :).

The only thing you own is a prescription for the drug "HomerBeariitis".

Thats ok, I inject my "BroncosWillWinItAllBaby 20MG" through an I.V.:salute:

Good luck to the Bears and the Broncos, I think we are both gonna need it!

MasterShake is out!

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:46 PM

The only thing you own is a prescription for the drug "HomerBeariitis".

Thats ok, I inject my "BroncosWillWinItAllBaby 20MG" through an I.V.:salute:

Good luck to the Bears and the Broncos, I think we are both gonna need it!

MasterShake is out!

Considering my team was 9-7 and have improved just about everywhere, I'll go ahead and say my team won't need luck. If you think your team does, fine by me.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 01:48 PM

How is it very revealing? Have you seen him play? He's a complete mismatch. They drafted him for that reason.

Yes, I did my fair share of owning at Mania. Thanks for reminding me :).

You didn't own anybody over there. Ever.

And you are showing on this board why you didn't.

Regarding Olsen, that was the Bears' problem. He was the only one who was a
mismatch, except that Lloyd regularly beat defenders when he was healthy. It
wasn't like the Broncos, for whom Graham, Scheffler, Marshall, Royal, and
Stokely all were mismatches.

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MasterShake

07-01-2009, 01:50 PM

Considering my team was 9-7 and have improved just about everywhere, I'll go ahead and say my team won't need luck. If you think your team does, fine by me.

All right, take a nice gesture and throw it back in my face. I'm going to go curl up in front of my John Elway poster in the fetal position and cry for 20 minutes now.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:50 PM

You didn't own anybody over there. Ever.

And you are showing on this board why you didn't.

Regarding Olsen, that was the Bears' problem. He was the only one who was a
mismatch, except that Lloyd regularly beat defenders when he was healthy. It
wasn't like the Broncos, for whom Graham, Scheffler, Marshall, Royal, and
Stokely all were mismatches.

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Lloyd had one good game in his one year. You act like he was Larry Fitz or something LOL. Having a guy like Olsen and not utilizing him is something called "stupid." The Bears have mismatches all over the field. Thankfully, the Bears now have a QB who can make it show.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 01:50 PM

I wasn't kidding. Just because the Bears WRs are inexperience doesn't mean they aren't talented. I mean, it's not like Cutler didn't throw to a 4th round pick and a guy who picked in the 2nd round and they performed right away. I wonder why? Oh yeah, because Cutler actually has an effect on WRs believe it or not. I believe he's the one who throws the ball. As for Forte, just because they have him doesn't mean they won't throw. They have thrown a pretty fair amount the last couple of years. They have not been a complete run-first team like people say. Not to mention Cutler will have outstanding TEs and pass catching RBs. The Bears are also extremely good at YAC.

oh im sure your right....cutler will throw for 45 td's and 3 int's and turn the bears scrubs into 1200+ yd recievers,and take them to a superbo.....no i just cant continue...its just too silly :lol:

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:51 PM

All right, take a nice gesture and throw it back in my face. I'm going to go curl up in front of my John Elway poster in the fetal position and cry for 20 minutes now.

Relax. I know it was a nice gesture. My comment wasn't meant to be an attack. I probably should have added more. Sorry if it came out that way.

Good luck. Never stop rooting for your team.

MasterShake

07-01-2009, 01:53 PM

Relax. I know it was a nice gesture. My comment wasn't meant to be an attack. I probably should have added more. Sorry if it came out that way.

Good luck. Never stop rooting for your team.

NO! YOU RUINED MY DAY!
:lol:

Don't worry, I'm just a smartass. I will never stop rooting for the Broncos, even if this KYLE ORTON is the sucky scrub you say he is! :D

GEM

07-01-2009, 01:53 PM

You're right, his total yards stats won't be padded thanks to the worst starting field position in the NFL, a horrible defense, and throwing the ball 616 times. However, his TDs will go up, his YPR will go up, and INTs will go down thanks to better and more balanced play calling and outstanding red zone targets. You can remember I said this, by the way.

Aye yay yay.

Your defense isn't what it was your Super Bowl year. Sorry if you haven't figured that out yet.

Your receivers couldn't catch balls from Orton, how do you think they are going to catch them from the laser arm guy? Outstanding red zone targets? WHO? LMAO!!! Keep spewing buddy, seems you've started believing. It really doesn't matter if you think you have better play calling, blah blah blah...if you don't have the players on the field that can execute. Your offensive line is horrid. Your wr's are non existent. No one here has said Cutler wasn't talented. He's the big P word....POTENTIAL. He's never lived up to it, in high school, in college or the NFL.

Come on back after the season. Until then, your boy hasn't proven ish on the field except that he can pad his own stats with a phenom offense surrounding him and still lose the games when they count. What does he do now when he has NO offense surrounding him.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 01:54 PM

oh im sure your right....cutler will throw for 45 td's and 3 int's and turn the bears scrubs into 1200+ yd recievers,and take them to a superbo.....no i just cant continue...its just too silly :lol:

More realistic would be Cutler throwing for 30-ish+ TDs and around 12 INTs. Hester will have around 1200 yards. Definitely over 1000. Olsen will have a nice year, as will Forte. And the defense can force turnovers and stop the opposing teams drives while not being tired thanks to an offense that can extend drives. That combined with the special teams giving the best field position in the NFL. Great returners, great kicker, overall good special teams. Feels good man.

GEM

07-01-2009, 01:55 PM

topscribe

07-01-2009, 01:55 PM

The Bears have mismatches all over the field.

Well, if you had any chance at credibility, you just flushed it down the drain. :pound:

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topscribe

07-01-2009, 01:56 PM

Did OaklandRaider change team affiliation?

What did I tell you? :whoknows:

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T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 01:57 PM

Lloyd had one good game in his one year. You act like he was Larry Fitz or something LOL. Having a guy like Olsen and not utilizing him is something called "stupid." The Bears have mismatches all over the field. Thankfully, the Bears now have a QB who can make it show.

wait a tick.... i thought you said the bears have better playcalling blah blah blah...now you say they are stupid ?which is it?:confused:

GEM

07-01-2009, 01:59 PM

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:00 PM

Aye yay yay.

Your defense isn't what it was your Super Bowl year. Sorry if you haven't figured that out yet.

Except they showed flashes of it last year, but thanks to a stupid D coordinator and overall bad coaching, it was inconsistent. Now they have fixed everything on the defense top to bottom, especially the coaching. Will is be the #1 D in the NFL? No, but it will be top 10 at worst, mainly at ppg. This ofense has more talent than the 06 offense that was 8th in the NFL in offensive scoring, BTW.

Your receivers couldn't catch balls from Orton, how do you think they are going to catch them from the laser arm guy?

Bears receivers did a much better job at catching the ball than Denver WRs. The Bears were 7th in the NFL in receptions per drop. The Broncos were 21st.

Outstanding red zone targets? WHO? LMAO!!!

I already said who LOL and they are all legit. LMAO!!!

Keep spewing buddy, seems you've started believing. It really doesn't matter if you think you have better play calling, blah blah blah...if you don't have the players on the field that can execute.

Yes they do.

Your offensive line is horrid.
Nope, they are not.

Your wr's are non existent.
If you mean non-existent as in inexperienced, OK. But they are yung and have a QB who can get them the ball. Even experts following the Bears have been raving about how good the WRs are looking with Cutler these last couple of weeks of OTAs.

No one here has said Cutler wasn't talented. He's the big P word....POTENTIAL. He's never lived up to it, in high school, in college or the NFL.
One of 4 QBs over the last two years to throw for 8000+ yards and 40+ TDs. He is the only one under 30. He hasn't even reached it.

Come on back after the season. Until then, your boy hasn't proven ish on the field except that he can pad his own stats with a phenom offense surrounding him and still lose the games when they count. What does he do now when he has NO offense surrounding him.
Oh, I will be here, believe me.

NO offense surrounding him..... AHHAAHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAAHAHA

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 02:00 PM

Did OaklandRaider change team affiliation?

you beat me to it,i was thinking that when i read his 2nd post in this thread.
i bet if you do some research you will find that O.R> hasnt posted since this troll arrived....coincidence? i think NOT!
must have realized it was futile to try and smack the broncos as a raiders fan
now is trying to swing from cutlers jock to get a rise out of somebody:lol:

GEM

07-01-2009, 02:01 PM

The Smack Forum is thatta way. -------------->

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:02 PM

wait a tick.... i thought you said the bears have better playcalling blah blah blah...now you say they are stupid ?which is it?:confused:

I did say that. I wouldn't call throwing the ball 616 times and being 28th in the NFL in rushing attempts smart, especially in the red zone.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:03 PM

:laugh: Guy should just pack it in. Terrible representation of Da Bears.

Everyone outside of Chicago knows....

DaBears Suck.

One of these days, they'll figure it out.

You don't need a flipping QB....you need someone for one of the bodies to throw to.

Planning an entire offense around a TE is NOT good playcalling.

You need a QB to throw to WRs. The last QB the Bears had was bad at that. The new Bears QB is good at that. He has two good TEs and a good RB who defenses need to pay attention to as well.

Da Bears have averages 10 wins a year the last 4 year, BTW.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 02:03 PM

Considering my team was 9-7 and have improved just about everywhere, I'll go ahead and say my team won't need luck. If you think your team does, fine by me.

considering orton took a team to a 9-7 record while playing injured and with arguably the worst supporting cast in the nfl.
i say we wont need as much "luck" as duhbears

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:06 PM

considering orton took a team to a 9-7 record while playing injured and with arguably the worst supporting cast in the nfl.
i say we wont need as much "luck" as duhbears

Considering Orton did not take the team anywhere shows how blind you are lol. If anyone carried that offense, it was Matt Forte. 51% of the team's touches. The offense was on his shoulders thanks to Orton not being able tot throw for jack. That's inexcusable. The Bears D spent more time on the field than anyone in the NFL and still ranked high in numerous stats. The special teams was outstanding as usual. If you honestly think Orton was why they went 9-7 I feel sorry for you.

IN before that article from week 7 you post all the time at "mania."

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 02:08 PM

The Smack Forum is thatta way. -------------->

i,m gonna go there and wait for this dude....he made fun of my name :mad:
and....my quarterback.....it aint fair....(sniff)....he's my quarterback, man !;)

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 02:12 PM

Considering Orton did not take the team anywhere shows how blind you are lol. If anyone carried that offense, it was Matt Forte. 51% of the team's touches. The offense was on his shoulders thanks to Orton not being able tot throw for jack. That's inexcusable. The Bears D spent more time on the field than anyone in the NFL and still ranked high in numerous stats. The special teams was outstanding as usual. If you honestly think Orton was why they went 9-7 I feel sorry for you.

IN before that article from week 7 you post all the time at "mania."

i dont know what article you are talking about and i dont post at "mania"
but i do know people in chicago as well as alot of "experts" had mentioned MVP when speaking of ortons play before his high ankle sprain....
what say ye to that ?

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:14 PM

i dont know what article you are talking about and i dont post at "mania"
but i do know people in chicago as well as alot of "experts" had mentioned MVP when speaking of ortons play before his high ankle sprain....
what say ye to that ?

He was mentioned as an MVP candidate, but comparing him with other guys in the NFL, he wasn't even top 10 in MVP at the point. It is actually a testament to how bad the Bears have been at QB, that people were on Orton's jock that much. Thank goodness that's gone. Sad thing is Orton got all the credit when he had two actual good games that padded his stats. Then when he went downhill, everyone else got the blame.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Considering Orton did not take the team anywhere shows how blind you are lol. If anyone carried that offense, it was Matt Forte. 51% of the team's touches. The offense was on his shoulders thanks to Orton not being able tot throw for jack. That's inexcusable. The Bears D spent more time on the field than anyone in the NFL and still ranked high in numerous stats. The special teams was outstanding as usual. If you honestly think Orton was why they went 9-7 I feel sorry for you.

IN before that article from week 7 you post all the time at "mania."

Right. Forte carried the team. 3.9 YPC. Right. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/laughing-478.gif

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T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 02:20 PM

He was mentioned as an MVP candidate, but comparing him with other guys in the NFL, he wasn't even top 10 in MVP at the point. It is actually a testament to how bad the Bears have been at QB, that people were on Orton's jock that much. Thank goodness that's gone. Sad thing is Orton got all the credit when he had two actual good games that padded his stats. Then when he went downhill, everyone else got the blame.

kinda like how you arent gonna blame cutler for quarterbacking the biggest collapse in league history,not making the playoffs after having a 3 game division lead with 3 games to go and throwing 2 td's and 4 picks in those final 3 games ....right ?

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:26 PM

kinda like how you arent gonna blame cutler for quarterbacking the biggest collapse in league history,not making the playoffs after having a 3 game division lead with 3 games to go and throwing 2 td's and 4 picks in those final 3 games ....right ?

Or the defense giving up 40 ppg in that same span?

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:28 PM

Right. Forte carried the team. 3.9 YPC. Right. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/laughing-478.gif

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51%of the teams touches. Gee I wonder who opposing D's are going to focus on....

Not to mention he was getting near all the carries every single game without much break, played pretty banged up for a good chunk of the season, and had no room to run thanks to being the focus of defenses and the offensive line not being very good at run-blocking, yes. I'n sure the Broncos could use someone that durable...

LRtagger

07-01-2009, 02:36 PM

He was mentioned as an MVP candidate, but comparing him with other guys in the NFL, he wasn't even top 10 in MVP at the point. It is actually a testament to how bad the Bears have been at QB, that people were on Orton's jock that much. Thank goodness that's gone. Sad thing is Orton got all the credit when he had two actual good games that padded his stats. Then when he went downhill, everyone else got the blame.

Just curious what Chicago fans will be saying about Jay after 5 years and no Lombardi's?

Seriously, Jay is a great player and yes is better than Orton, but he was not the final piece to the Bears puzzle. Just when he matures enough to stop being an idiot on the field, their defense will be old...and they will be out of draft picks.

They will be the 2007 and 2008 denver broncos.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 02:37 PM

51%of the teams touches. Gee I wonder who opposing D's are going to focus on....

Not to mention he was getting near all the carries every single game without much break, played pretty banged up for a good chunk of the season, and had no room to run thanks to being the focus of defenses and the offensive line not being very good at run-blocking, yes. I'n sure the Broncos could use someone that durable...

I don't care about the percentage of touches or how "banged up" Forte was
(although it is ironic you would bring that up after calling Orton's high ankle
sprain "excuses"). The fact is, your running game stunk. Bottom line.

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tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:38 PM

Just curious what Chicago fans will be saying about Jay after 5 years and no Lombardi's?

Seriously, Jay is a great player and yes is better than Orton, but he was not the final piece to the Bears puzzle. Just when he matures enough to stop being an idiot on the field, their defense will be old...and they will be out of draft picks.

They will be the 2007 and 2008 denver broncos.

Of course he isn't the final piece. They did more this offseason than trade for Cutler.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 02:44 PM

I don't care about the percentage of touches or how "banged up" Forte was
(although it is ironic you would bring that up after calling Orton's high ankle
sprain "excuses"). The fact is, your running game stunk. Bottom line.

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Yes, our running game stunk, because it was focused on and we had a poor run-blocking O line. However, there was no excuse for how poor the passing game did with all the focus on the underneath passes and Forte. Once teams realized they just had to defend the short passes, Orton struggled. He still avoided open WRs past 10-15 yards and when he did throw it it was either way off or he already hesitated and they were not open any more. Has he been able to connect a couple of times, opposing teams would have backed off, but they never did. He needs to work on his downfield accuracy and even more, his confidence in himself.

As for Forte being injured, the injuries he sustained had more effect on him is a RB than Orton's injury as a QB. Plenty of QBs have sustained similar or far worse injuried and performed SIGNIFICANTLY better. When you are banged up, being pretty much the only RB being used, and are the only focus of opposing Ds, it's tough. Not to mention he was a rookie.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 03:00 PM

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 03:02 PM

Yes, our running game stunk, because it was focused on and we had a poor run-blocking O line. However, there was no excuse for how poor the passing game did with all the focus on the underneath passes and Forte. Once teams realized they just had to defend the short passes, Orton struggled. He still avoided open WRs past 10-15 yards and when he did throw it it was either way off or he already hesitated and they were not open any more. Has he been able to connect a couple of times, opposing teams would have backed off, but they never did. He needs to work on his downfield accuracy and even more, his confidence in himself.

As for Forte being injured, the injuries he sustained had more effect on him is a RB than Orton's injury as a QB. Plenty of QBs have sustained similar or far worse injuried and performed SIGNIFICANTLY better. When you are banged up, being pretty much the only RB being used, and are the only focus of opposing Ds, it's tough. Not to mention he was a rookie.

yeah like when cutler got his finger smacked on that meanies helmet....whaaaaaa!
anyway i guess your right again about cutler.....apparently his massive ego has recovered fully from the very thought that someone might want to trade him and he has already reserved the bears a spot at the superbowl next year....lol
pretty cocky for a guy who has'nt won shis since high school !
thats gonna make alot of teams take it easy on him this season ....NOT ! what a dork. ( see below )

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

Cutler, to this point, seems to love the attention, thriving in the spotlight. He has thrown out the first pitch at a Cubs game, dropped the puck at the Blackhawks’ playoff opener and given gossips plenty to talk about by exploring the ins and outs of city night life with his new teammates.

Although the expectations would be unfair for even Joe Montana or Dan Marino, Cutler just might be up to it. He’s part swagger. Part smug. And all quarterback. At the Bears Expo, he confidently pushed all the right buttons and played perfectly to the crowd. He predicted the Bears would win the season opener against Green Bay and “knows” they will make the playoffs.

When one fan asked whether he had started to develop a hatred for the Packers, Cutler laughed and then said, “I’ve never really liked them.” When another fan wanted to know whether he had begun recording a new “Super Bowl Shuffle,” he quipped, “Orlando [Pace] is in the process of choreographing that whole deal. We’re just waiting for him to finalize it.”

Then there was the little boy who wanted to know how many touchdowns Cutler plans to throw this season.

“How many do you want?” Cutler responded, knowing his career high is 25.

“Thirty,” the boy said.

“We can probably get you 30,” Cutler said. “I don’t think that’s going to be a problem.”

The new quarterback even staunchly defended his teammates. When one fan began asking whether a quarterback makes his receivers better or vice versa, Cutler stopped the fan before he had a chance to finish.

“You’re worried about our wide receivers a little bit? Let me put you at ease,” Cutler said, before explaining how the Broncos’ Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal were relative unknowns before their arrival in Denver. “Receiving-wise, we’ve got what we need here. You don’t need to worry about it.”

underrated29

07-01-2009, 03:48 PM

Ok i dont really know what this thread has turned into here anymore. But why does everyone here think the bears will suck next year???

It makes no sense to me, at all.

Their defense might not be awesome any more, but it is head and shoulders above ours.

They do have a good Oline- i rank their situation similiar to ours. Our sucked the year before last. Most of us we calling it our NOLINE. i know i was. Then we got clady and harris back from injury and we are money.

The bears:- They drafted williams, the guy cutler played with in college, they get him back this year (aka like ryan harris)- then they signed Pace. Yes he is old, but the guy is still top 10 in the league when healthy (aka old clady)--they got their bookends completed.

Forte is a stud, we all know that and he catches passes too. Olsen is a pimp, he is like scheff in the receiving dept. and not as good but close to graham in the blocking dept.

At wr- they have bennet who jay played with in college, hester who is so so, and some other guys- mathis? and who knows. Point is- last year they made it work with those WR and now they have an even better QB. Plus the WR they drafted this year.

They have improved their team a lot. So saying they will suck is just stupid.

Plus they have a cake walks schedule.

If they lose with that schedule then we can say they suck, until then i expect them to do well in the playoffs. I also expect us to make the playoffs, after that i am just no so certain what we will do. But knowshon baby is going to go a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways in helping that.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 03:49 PM

Da Bears have averages 10 wins a year the last 4 year, BTW.

i hope you enjoyed it while it lasted....(whispers):listen: jay....not so much
actually i dont expect the bears to "suck" i just dont think jay should go into that situation promising the playoffs when he really has to know he has lost alot of talent at wr.and no i dont buy the "jay made the recievers in denver that much better theory"
bmarsh is known for his yac and royal was a burner when we drafted him and has shown that hard work and dedication to learning the playbook pays off !
jay is a very good qb,but contrary to popular belief...though they share the same initials he is NOT a savior !

tumbana

07-01-2009, 03:56 PM

Please name the QBs who have incurred high ankle sprains on the outside of
their back foot and have done better. Honestly, I haven't heard of any. If
you have, please share it with us. Really, I want to know. I'm waiting . . .

McNabb played with a broken ankle. Phillip Rivers with a torn knee. Those are off the top of my head. I will look for some more later.

Nonetheless, I wasn't aware of a "poor" passing game for Chicago last year,
especially if you insist on making excuses for the running game.
Opposing D's focused on Forte, not on Orton or the passing game.

You used
injuries ("banged up") as an excuse for Forte, but Orton's high ankle sprain
was no excuse.
Bad ankles, turf toe, and a stinger combined have far more effect on the play on the RUNNING BACK than an ankle injury on a QB, especially since the ankle does not change the QBs instincts or who he threw to. Or when defenses clearly adjusted to him as the year went on and he did not adjust back.

You used line blocking as an excuse for Forte, but that same
line was no excuse for Orton. Forte was a rookie, but Orton has no excuse,
being in only his second year on the field.
RUN blocking and PASS blocking are two different types of blocking. The Bears O line was bad at RUN blocking but good at PASS blocking. And that was Orton's 4th year in the NFL with 18 start under his belt and plenty of time to study and analyze and he was never asked to do much and never did do much. Forte was a rookie RB who had the entire offense on his shoulders. He did period. 51% of the teams touches and rarely seeing the sideline doesn't say so?

Orton did most of the passing, and Forte did most of the running. If Orton
stunk, then so did Forte.

Except Orton had MANY opportunities to make opposing Ds pay. Forte was focused on. He was game planned against. Orton was not. The league adjusted to his short passes and put more athletic guys on the RB and TEs and he couldn't adjust. He was not hitting receivers in stride, he was being afraid to throw outside of his comfort zone (short passes), and he did not adjust. Period. It was so obvious.

Listen, you've joined a pretty sophisticated crowd here on the Forums. They
can see the sophistry in your specious arguments. (Vocabulary over your
head? http://www.merriam-webster.com/ .) If you don't have any better
arguments than those you have presented, then perhaps you ought to quit
posting and start reading for a while. We have a few here from whom you can
learn a lot. (I have.) But you really do need to do a better job than this if you
hope to persuade anybody.

-----

I don't get when you post garbage like this LOL. Everything have said was factual and not hard to understand.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 04:01 PM

i hope you enjoyed it while it lasted....(whispers):listen: jay....not so much
actually i dont expect the bears to "suck" i just dont think jay should go into that situation promising the playoffs when he really has to know he has lost alot of talent at wr.and no i dont buy the "jay made the recievers in denver that much better theory"
bmarsh is known for his yac and royal was a burner when we drafted him and has shown that hard work and dedication to learning the playbook pays off !
jay is a very good qb,but contrary to popular belief...though they share the same initials he is NOT a savior !

Sorry, but we haven't solely relied on our QB like the Broncos, so having Jay helps A VERY LOT more than it "hurts," sorry. I have enjoyed it and I will continue to enjoy all the Bears W's.

The Bears have plenty of talent for Jay to succeed, so I'm not worried at all. It has been proven again and again that it's the QB who gets the most out of his WRs, not the other way around. If you have a QB who can find receivers and hit them in stride, those receivers will be successful. I am not trashing Orton when I say this, but believe me when I say you will miss that kind of QB. There is a reason why about a dozen teams wanted Cutler and were willing to give up so much for him.

Lonestar

07-01-2009, 04:11 PM

Considering my team was 9-7 and have improved just about everywhere, I'll go ahead and say my team won't need luck. If you think your team does, fine by me.

not sure were you may have improved just about everywhere..

now I do not follow the bears much, but both I do follow GB and MIN. They seem to have upgraded their teams and DET can't get any worse.. that is 4 very good chances of losing and maybe an 5th away game in DET.

but your OC has not changed,

you got a QB that has a lot of potential.

did not have a DAFT choice on day one IIRC.

you did get and over the hill OT.. so there was maybe some improvement on the OLINE but if that is all jaysus is still in trouble..

unless God has been busy improving your team some where else. Your no better off than before other maybe at QB.. and in your system with surrounding talent that may not even be an upgrade..

I realize your a loyal fan of the bears but please do not try to tell fans of DEN how bad we are going to be..

if you want to talk smack go to the smack section and get beat up on over there where the heavy hitters hang out..

GEM

07-01-2009, 04:20 PM

You need a QB to throw to WRs. The last QB the Bears had was bad at that. The new Bears QB is good at that. He has two good TEs and a good RB who defenses need to pay attention to as well.

Da Bears have averages 10 wins a year the last 4 year, BTW.

The Broncos have a QB. Do the Bears have any WR's???

tumbana

07-01-2009, 04:35 PM

not sure were you may have improved just about everywhere..

now I do not follow the bears much, but both I do follow GB and MIN. They seem to have upgraded their teams and DET can't get any worse.. that is 4 very good chances of losing and maybe an 5th away game in DET.

but your OC has not changed,

you got a QB that has a lot of potential.

did not have a DAFT choice on day one IIRC.

you did get and over the hill OT.. so there was maybe some improvement on the OLINE but if that is all jaysus is still in trouble..

unless God has been busy improving your team some where else. Your no better off than before other maybe at QB.. and in your system with surrounding talent that may not even be an upgrade..

I realize your a loyal fan of the bears but please do not try to tell fans of DEN how bad we are going to be..

if you want to talk smack go to the smack section and get beat up on over there where the heavy hitters hang out..

We improved our QB by A LOT. Look back at games where the QB performed well and how the playcalling looked compared to when the QB looked bad. Of course the OC is going to not look too good when the QB can't make certain throws. Not to mention how big of an effect a QB like Cutler has on an offense.

We improved our OL by A LOT. If giving up 1.5 sacks is over the hill I will take it. Signed Shaffer, Omileye, and have Chris Williams healthy. ALL of them are better than who they are replacing.

Our WRs are younger and more talented than last year's group. Hester has been focusing mainly on WR and will be starting full time instead of half the season.

Kevin Jones will be healthy and 100% and a 2-back system will be more implemented to help keep Forte's legs fresh.

Now for defense.

First and foremost, also the more important change for the team IMO, the coaching. DB coach is replaced with a better DB coach.

Rod Marinelli, the best D line coach in the NFL, is now the D line coach. The D linemen are already raving about him and about how much they have learned.

Lovie Smith is now running the defense. People outside of Chicago don't understand how big that is. Bob Babich and his game planning and scheme absolutely killed the defense. Took away a lot of the players' playmaking abilities namely Urlach and Tillman, even though both were banged up. Hid mug Formation was brutal and it it should be gone. Urlacher will be roaming the middle of the field like he was before instead of starting at the LOS every snap and having to run back in time.

Urlacher healthy and 100%. Last year he was coming off neck surgery and has been most impressive at workouts this offseason. Then you factor Babich moving.

Tillman back to 100% and will be allowed to play closer than 8-10 yards off the WR.

Vasher back and is looking very good. Got in shape.

Harris healthier

Mike Brown at FS last year was a liability at times, even though overall he was solid, but he was more of a SS and slowed down A LOT thanks to constant injuries. It was time to let go and now there is young ballhawk Corey Graham who has potential to be one HECK of a FS.

Then you factor an offense that will extend drives and give them a breather so that they will not be on the field more than any D in the NFL.

The draft picks.

The Bears had one of the best drafts in the NFL for the value they got for their picks. I have already made a lengthy post about this before, I will make this short.

Gilbert is considered by many to be the steal of the draft. Physical freak who should become dominant under the Bears coaching. He was supposed to be a 2nd rounder but somehow dropped to the Bears early in the 3rd.

Juaquin Iglesias was one of the most polished WRs in the draft. good route runner with very good hands. Was said to go in either the 2nd or 3rd. Nearly fell to the 4th.

Henry Melton was converted to DE but is known as a physical freak with a lot of talent. could become a solid player with Bears' coaching.

DJ Moore was a huge steal. After his senior year, he was ranked a 1st round pick. Pre-draft, he was considered either a late 1st or 2nd rounder. Somehow dropped to the 4th. He has been very impressive so far showing his athletic ability.

Freeman was also a HUGE steal in the 5th. He was supposed to be either a 2nd or 3rd round pick. VERY athletic LB who is already being considered the heir to Lance Briggs. Will play special teams until them.

Johnny Knox, despite going to a D II school, was invited to the combine. He has very good hands and has elite speed. He has been one of the most impressive draft picks so far this offseason for the Bears. If he continues to impress so much, he may end up the slot receiver and become an absolute nightmare for opposing Ds. Was the Broncos' 5th round pick.

Those are the key draft picks and and the Bears got more value for their picks than how much their picks were worth. They now have a ton of nice young depth all over the field and improved a lot after their 9-7 season.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 04:36 PM

The Broncos have a QB. Do the Bears have any WR's???

No, the Broncos do not have a QB. The Bears do have WRs. They are young and unproven, but they are talented and will shut everyone up now with Cutler being a QB who can actually throw to them and TEs and an RB that will draw attention.

GEM

07-01-2009, 04:39 PM

No, the Broncos do not have a QB. The Bears do have WRs. They are young and unproven, but they are talented and will shut everyone up now with Cutler being a QB who can actually throw to them and TEs and an RB that will draw attention.

The QB we have now has more wins under his belt that the QB yours has. Stats don't mean ish in this league. It's about wins/losses. You have a high potential QB who has NEVER succeeded at any level.

Would you quit talking about your TE's and a RB. I said you don't have WR's. That fact still stands.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Sorry, but we haven't solely relied on our QB like the Broncos, so having Jay helps A VERY LOT more than it "hurts," sorry. I have enjoyed it and I will continue to enjoy all the Bears W's.

The Bears have plenty of talent for Jay to succeed, so I'm not worried at all. It has been proven again and again that it's the QB who gets the most out of his WRs, not the other way around. If you have a QB who can find receivers and hit them in stride, those receivers will be successful. I am not trashing Orton when I say this, but believe me when I say you will miss that kind of QB. There is a reason why about a dozen teams wanted Cutler and were willing to give up so much for him.

and there is a reason mcD wanted to trade him,i think cutler is a very good qb with a habit of throwing into coverage and taking risks that really are'nt needed. so there will likely be times when he costs the bears games as well as times he wins them on sheer talent .
its all good as for a dozen teams willing to give up so much ,i think it was 3 teams and the bears offered the best deal .
we will see if knowshon and the other picks + a capable qb who for some reason the coach seems to trust more than cutler turns out to be a great deal or blunder.
i for one think we got the better end of the bargain,especially when you factor in the whiny baby aspect of the whole deal !

GEM

07-01-2009, 04:51 PM

Sorry, but we haven't solely relied on our QB like the Broncos, so having Jay helps A VERY LOT more than it "hurts," sorry. I have enjoyed it and I will continue to enjoy all the Bears W's.

The Bears have plenty of talent for Jay to succeed, so I'm not worried at all. It has been proven again and again that it's the QB who gets the most out of his WRs, not the other way around. If you have a QB who can find receivers and hit them in stride, those receivers will be successful. I am not trashing Orton when I say this, but believe me when I say you will miss that kind of QB. There is a reason why about a dozen teams wanted Cutler and were willing to give up so much for him.

Yippidy friggen doo da. Whether we miss him or not, what does it matter to you? Go bask in your QB's excellence on a Bears board. This act is old.

The guy left here crying like a 6 month old with a soiled diaper. He forced a trade because his ego is bigger than his W column. What do you want us to do? Should we still care about the guy? We've moved on. You're the one on a BRONCOS message board talking about Kyle Orton.

underrated29

07-01-2009, 04:58 PM

The QB we have now has more wins under his belt that the QB yours has. Stats don't mean ish in this league. It's about wins/losses. You have a high potential QB who has NEVER succeeded at any level.

Would you quit talking about your TE's and a RB. I said you don't have WR's. That fact still stands.

GEM- i love you girl. But Jay has succeeded, in most levels. Maybe not the w/l column but football is a team sport.

No matter what jay did or how he acts he is a gamer and his skills are undeniable. I know you dont honestly believe that jay is just a talent or maybe can be good. I know you are a smart fan and the rest i agree with what you said, but lets not throw jay too far under the bus here.

Grover

07-01-2009, 04:58 PM

GEM said -

Yippidy friggen doo da. Whether we miss him or not, what does it matter to you? Go bask in your QB's excellence on a Bears board. This act is old.

The guy left here crying like a 6 month old with a soiled diaper. He forced a trade because his ego is bigger than his W column. What do you want us to do? Should we still care about the guy? We've moved on. You're the one on a BRONCOS message board talking about Kyle Orton.

Yee-haw! Git 'im. (he said, admiringly) :clap2:

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:09 PM

GEM- i love you girl. But Jay has succeeded, in most levels. Maybe not the w/l column but football is a team sport.

No matter what jay did or how he acts he is a gamer and his skills are undeniable. I know you dont honestly believe that jay is just a talent or maybe can be good. I know you are a smart fan and the rest i agree with what you said, but lets not throw jay too far under the bus here.

Did he succeed in high school? :confused: How about college? :confused: NFL? :confused:

Success is defined in wins and losses.

He's a big ball of POTENTIAL. Potential means nothing if you can't put a team on your back and just win ONE single game instead of putting up the biggest choke job in NFL history.

I honestly do see him as having a big arm, but what else?? He throws into triple coverage, he stares down a WR for the big yardage rather than going for the dunk 10 ydrs to extend a set of downs. He throws int's at the WORST possible time.

I know, I know. The Chicago guys eyes are all gaga over Cutler, just like ours were. Wait til he doesn't have a surround offensive cast, his blinded eyes will open a lot quicker than mine did.

I HAVE 2 Cutler jerseys (blue and orange), but my orange color glasses are off. He's not a Bronco, I have no use for him and no reason to view him through orange tinted glasses anymore.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 05:13 PM

McNabb played with a broken ankle. Phillip Rivers with a torn knee. Those are off the top of my head. I will look for some more later.

Opposing D's focused on Forte, not on Orton or the passing game.

Bad ankles, turf toe, and a stinger combined have far more effect on the play on the RUNNING BACK than an ankle injury on a QB, especially since the ankle does not change the QBs instincts or who he threw to. Or when defenses clearly adjusted to him as the year went on and he did not adjust back.

RUN blocking and PASS blocking are two different types of blocking. The Bears O line was bad at RUN blocking but good at PASS blocking. And that was Orton's 4th year in the NFL with 18 start under his belt and plenty of time to study and analyze and he was never asked to do much and never did do much. Forte was a rookie RB who had the entire offense on his shoulders. He did period. 51% of the teams touches and rarely seeing the sideline doesn't say so?

Except Orton had MANY opportunities to make opposing Ds pay. Forte was focused on. He was game planned against. Orton was not. The league adjusted to his short passes and put more athletic guys on the RB and TEs and he couldn't adjust. He was not hitting receivers in stride, he was being afraid to throw outside of his comfort zone (short passes), and he did not adjust. Period. It was so obvious.

I don't get when you post garbage like this LOL. Everything have said was factual and not hard to understand.

Wow. You're arguing from such a state of ignorance, it's a wonder you can
remember your name. Looking at this raised the question: Why am I swimming
in this swill with you? :doh:

Sorry. I guess the other members of this board have me used to discussing
issues at a higher level. Have a good day. :laugh:

-----

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:24 PM

The QB we have now has more wins under his belt that the QB yours has. Stats don't mean ish in this league. It's about wins/losses. You have a high potential QB who has NEVER succeeded at any level.

Orton is a winner in the same sense that Rex Grossman is a winner. Are you serious? LOL. TEAMS win games.

Would you quit talking about your TE's and a RB. I said you don't have WR's. That fact still stands.
I already said the WRs will shut everyone up. Of course you can talk trash when you haven't seen them play yet. Especially with a real QB.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:26 PM

Yippidy friggen doo da. Whether we miss him or not, what does it matter to you? Go bask in your QB's excellence on a Bears board. This act is old.

The guy left here crying like a 6 month old with a soiled diaper. He forced a trade because his ego is bigger than his W column. What do you want us to do? Should we still care about the guy? We've moved on. You're the one on a BRONCOS message board talking about Kyle Orton.

U mad?

underrated29

07-01-2009, 05:27 PM

Did he succeed in high school? :confused: How about college? :confused: NFL? :confused:

Success is defined in wins and losses.

He's a big ball of POTENTIAL. Potential means nothing if you can't put a team on your back and just win ONE single game instead of putting up the biggest choke job in NFL history.

I honestly do see him as having a big arm, but what else?? He throws into triple coverage, he stares down a WR for the big yardage rather than going for the dunk 10 ydrs to extend a set of downs. He throws int's at the WORST possible time.

I know, I know. The Chicago guys eyes are all gaga over Cutler, just like ours were. Wait til he doesn't have a surround offensive cast, his blinded eyes will open a lot quicker than mine did.

I HAVE 2 Cutler jerseys (blue and orange), but my orange color glasses are off. He's not a Bronco, I have no use for him and no reason to view him through orange tinted glasses anymore.

No he didnt win. And no you dont have to view him with the orange glasses. I dont anymore either. But there is a lot more to him than potential. And our 3 game choke was not his fault. It was the teams and the coaching. Remember, this, had stokley come down with the football on either of the 2 throws that jay made to him in the endzone we would have won and be in the playoffs. Jay made the right throw, but sometimes the coverage is better and the wr isnt stepping up.

of course he threw a int in the redzone as well as others, but he is not some turnover machine and our whole offense made some of the worst turnovers i have ever seen made (including the timing of them.)

I rank last years team as the worst bronco team that i have ever seen played. (that i have been old enough to remember that is)

While you are correct he hasnt proven the w/l, i highly highly doubt that all of a sudden he is going to be some mediocre QB in chicago. And that it was our awesome set of offensive everything that made him so exceptional.

so more or less, jay is not going to tank in chi town. If he does i will be the first to apologize for keeping my glasses on when i thought i took them off. And i will send you a naked pic of topscribe, this time without that goose in the way.

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:35 PM

Orton is a winner in the same sense that Rex Grossman is a winner. Are you serious? LOL. TEAMS win games.

I already said the WRs will shut everyone up. Of course you can talk trash when you haven't seen them play yet. Especially with a real QB.

Ohhhh but that one QB is going to be saving grace of the Bears. Where is the team in that?? :confused:

You don't have any WR's, that's the point.

So we should take your word on Orton, but you want us to wait and see on Cutler. :confused: Double standard don't you think? You've been jamming this down our throats since your arrival here, but aren't willing to read of your teams deficiencies.

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:36 PM

U mad?

Nah...you just need to make a move to the smack forum instead of trying to bait everyone into an argument in the General Discussions forum.

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:38 PM

No he didnt win. And no you dont have to view him with the orange glasses. I dont anymore either. But there is a lot more to him than potential. And our 3 game choke was not his fault. It was the teams and the coaching. Remember, this, had stokley come down with the football on either of the 2 throws that jay made to him in the endzone we would have won and be in the playoffs. Jay made the right throw, but sometimes the coverage is better and the wr isnt stepping up.

of course he threw a int in the redzone as well as others, but he is not some turnover machine and our whole offense made some of the worst turnovers i have ever seen made (including the timing of them.)

I rank last years team as the worst bronco team that i have ever seen played. (that i have been old enough to remember that is)

While you are correct he hasnt proven the w/l, i highly highly doubt that all of a sudden he is going to be some mediocre QB in chicago. And that it was our awesome set of offensive everything that made him so exceptional.

so more or less, jay is not going to tank in chi town. If he does i will be the first to apologize for keeping my glasses on when i thought i took them off. And i will send you a naked pic of topscribe, this time without that goose in the way.

Nope, he just won't be as good as he was here since he doesn't have the weapons there that he had here.

He might not tank, but he isn't going to do any better there than he did here.

roomemp

07-01-2009, 05:41 PM

Orton is a winner in the same sense that Rex Grossman is a winner. Are you serious? LOL. TEAMS win games.

I already said the WRs will shut everyone up. Of course you can talk trash when you haven't seen them play yet. Especially with a real QB.

Of course you can talk trash about Orton especially with that stellar offense he had in Chicago :tsk:

P.S.-Your posts contradict themselves

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:42 PM

Of course you can talk trash about Orton especially with that stellar offense he had in Chicago :tsk:

P.S.-Your posts contradict themselves

The offense in Chicago included Kyle Orton.

roomemp

07-01-2009, 05:43 PM

The offense in Chicago included Kyle Orton.

I like tuna sandwiches with cheese and lettuce on wheat :elefant:

P.S.-Its a team sport. One player doesn't make an offense. Remember

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:43 PM

Nope, he just won't be as good as he was here since he doesn't have the weapons there that he had here.

He might not tank, but he isn't going to do any better there than he did here.

He won't have as many total yards, but he will be better at TDs, yards per reception, completion%, and will also throw much less INTs. Thanks to a much more balanced offense, better field position, and smarter red zone play calling.

pnbronco

07-01-2009, 05:44 PM

Nah...you just need to make a move to the smack forum instead of trying to bait everyone into an argument in the General Discussions forum.

Thank you Gem!!! I second that thought. :congrats:

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Ohhhh but that one QB is going to be saving grace of the Bears. Where is the team in that?? :confused:

You don't have any WR's, that's the point.

So we should take your word on Orton, but you want us to wait and see on Cutler. :confused: Double standard don't you think? You've been jamming this down our throats since your arrival here, but aren't willing to read of your teams deficiencies.

I never said wait and see on Cutler. Cutler is going to be very good for the Bears.

I also never said Cutler is going to be the saving grace, he's just going to help improve the offense a lot, but he was not the only player the Bears got and the only move they made.

The Bears have receivers. You will know their names after week 1. Just tune in Sunday night.

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:49 PM

He won't have as many total yards, but he will be better at TDs, yards per reception, completion%, and will also throw much less INTs. Thanks to a much more balanced offense, better field position, and smarter red zone play calling.

Balanced offense? :lol:

Cutler is at his WORST in the red zone. Remember that.

GEM

07-01-2009, 05:52 PM

I never said wait and see on Cutler. Cutler is going to be very good for the Bears.

I also never said Cutler is going to be the saving grace, he's just going to help improve the offense a lot, but he was not the only player the Bears got and the only move they made.

The Bears have receivers. You will know their names after week 1. Just tune in Sunday night.

Why would I tune in? Here's a news flash for you. I could give a crap about the Bears, they aren't in our conference, much less our division. I'll care about them one week this year, Week 3 in the preseason. Here's what you're not getting...you're the only one on this message board that cares about the Bears. You'd be better off with this stuff on a Vikings board or the Packers board.

Either talk some football without all the Cutler is better than Orton and without the smack talk. Be prepared to LISTEN to other people's opinions, rather than just being ready to fight.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:54 PM

Balanced offense? :lol:

Cutler is at his WORST in the red zone. Remember that.

Yes at his worst in the red zone, where the Broncos passed as much as they did anywhere on the field, and also used a ton of shot gun. That's ridiculous.

616 pass attempts for Cutler.

28th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Yeah, seems pretty balanced to me.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 05:55 PM

Why would I tune in? Here's a news flash for you. I could give a crap about the Bears, they aren't in our conference, much less our division. I'll care about them one week this year, Week 3 in the preseason. Here's what you're not getting...you're the only one on this message board that cares about the Bears. You'd be better off with this stuff on a Vikings board or the Packers board.

Either talk some football without all the Cutler is better than Orton and without the smack talk. Be prepared to LISTEN to other people's opinions, rather than just being ready to fight.

I know you and everyone on this board is going to be watching that first sunday night game. Most if not all football fans will. First Sunday night game of the year, rivalry game, how will Cutler do yadda yadda. Don't have to lie.

GEM

07-01-2009, 06:10 PM

I know you and everyone on this board is going to be watching that first sunday night game. Most if not all football fans will. First Sunday night game of the year, rivalry game, how will Cutler do yadda yadda. Don't have to lie.

You've got me confused with being a Player fan. I'm a Denver Broncos fan. I don't care what your boy does in Chitown. I care about how my Denver Broncos do.

I don't need to watch to know how Cutler will do. He'll have a high yardage game with a couple int's and I'm calling a Packers win...which pains me because I absolutely hate the Packers.

tumbana

07-01-2009, 06:15 PM

You've got me confused with being a Player fan. I'm a Denver Broncos fan. I don't care what your boy does in Chitown. I care about how my Denver Broncos do.

I don't need to watch to know how Cutler will do. He'll have a high yardage game with a couple int's and I'm calling a Packers win...which pains me because I absolutely hate the Packers.

He's not on the Broncos, so that won't happen.

285 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs Bears W like they have against the Packers the last 5 years.

atwater27

07-01-2009, 06:45 PM

One of the funnier things to see on the broncos boards is how critically Cutler was looked at for going out to the bars and drinking, partying, having a good time. The same guys think Orton is the shit for doing the exact same thing, but worse.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 06:53 PM

Orton is a winner in the same sense that Rex Grossman is a winner. Are you serious? LOL. TEAMS win games.

I already said the WRs will shut everyone up. Of course you can talk trash when you haven't seen them play yet. Especially with a real QB.

yet when orton got hurt the bears 1st place in the division vanished and the team rushed orton back in (though still hurt) because grossman was ruining the bears season....remember that? are you serious?lol qb's win games single handed...right ? thats why we missed the playoffs last year....wait huh?

YOU already said it so it must be true....
well you havent seen our recievers play on the same field as orton therefore using your logic , i can say that orton will "shut everyone up !"
fair enough ?:D

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 07:01 PM

I know you and everyone on this board is going to be watching that first sunday night game. Most if not all football fans will. First Sunday night game of the year, rivalry game, how will Cutler do yadda yadda. Don't have to lie.

i really like how cutler blew into town and gave the rest of the division bulletin board material by announcing that the bears will beat the packers in their 1st meeting and make the playoffs for sure !
what a rookie mistake, confidence is one thing but arrogance is quite another.
i hope arron rodgers smokes his a$$ so all the bears fans can get a much needed reality check.
its not unlike how he and rivers went at it in the afcw,unfortunately rivers always got the last laugh as he won the div. every year cutler was here !
you would think cutler would have learned not to talk shis til he backs it up....guess not

dogfish

07-01-2009, 07:16 PM

lol. . . yea, not one peep has ever been heard from orton in his entire life, but cutler is the exact opposite. . . my, how quickly a little offseason drama can make people forget that cutler played all of 2007 with an undiagnosed case of diabetes that had him 35 pounds below his playing weight by the end of the season, AND HE NEVER SAID A DAMN WORD!

no excuses. . . no complaints. . . no "whining". . . . he just went out there every weeek and competed. . . how quickly people forget-- ahh, the power of revisionist history! maybe jay's "whining" was sparked because thought he'd earned a bit of loyalty from the organization after that, because he sure never did any complaining before the whole trade fiasco. . . :coffee:

no offense intended TKO, but IMO that article is kinda bullshit. . .

orton's arm is as good as anyone in the NFL? yea, i don't know about that. . . and he's very durable? don't know about that, either. . . the guy says that after making the case that the second half of last season was ruined when he was slow to recover from an injury, and IIRC a very promising senior season of college was marred by a rather serious hip injury. . . i wouldn't say he's the model of durability. . .

as i've said before, i did like the guy a lot as a prospect coming out of college, and i'm hopeful that he can grow into a solid QB for us. . . but i'm pretty sure that whoever wrote the original article of this thread must be a relative of kyle's. . . :laugh:

oh, and please remember:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2104/feedtrollsj.gif (http://img139.imageshack.us/i/feedtrollsj.gif/)

he'll go away if you ignore him. . . .

:welcome:

The Glue Factory

07-01-2009, 07:49 PM

I never said wait and see on Cutler. Cutler is going to be very good for the Bears.

I also never said Cutler is going to be the saving grace, he's just going to help improve the offense a lot, but he was not the only player the Bears got and the only move they made.

The Bears have receivers. You will know their names after week 1. Just tune in Sunday night.

What you may not understand is that even with the best WRs in the world, Cutler is still going to stare down his favorite and throw into double or triple coverage. He'll do it even on third and 5 when he has two perfectly wide open receivers (TE/RB/FB you name it) that will get the first with ease just by catching the ball and falling down.

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 08:09 PM

i really admire cutler for playing with undiagnosed diabetes...and still think he is a very good qb.
but he has to win alot of games in this league to prove he is a "great qb" and yards dont get you to the hof. all im saying is you cant say cutler was the reason we won 1/2 our games
while giving NO credit to orton for having a better w/l record than cutler...speaking of revisionist
cutler will be an upgrade for chicago,and orton would have been a downgrade in denver (hence the multiple 1st rnd picks and 3rd) in shanny's scheme.
however my stance remains that it is POSSIBLE that orton will do as well or better than jay would have in mcD's system....again i say POSSIBLE !
and i will always have my orange colored glasses on...always
thats what gets me through the mediocre seasons...you know like the last 3

tumbana

07-01-2009, 08:21 PM

yet when orton got hurt the bears 1st place in the division vanished and the team rushed orton back in (though still hurt) because grossman was ruining the bears season....remember that? are you serious?lol qb's win games single handed...right ? thats why we missed the playoffs last year....wait huh?

YOU already said it so it must be true....
well you havent seen our recievers play on the same field as orton therefore using your logic , i can say that orton will "shut everyone up !"
fair enough ?:D
When Orton got hurt he started to suck, and the team played a little better than .500.

No, QBs don't win games single handedly. I never said that. Maybe you can take lessons in reading comprehension?

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 08:46 PM

When Orton got hurt he started to suck, and the team played a little better than .500.

No, QBs don't win games single handedly. I never said that. Maybe you can take lessons in reading comprehension?

why do you continue to get personal ?
its a fact that the bears were a better team with orton last year...otherwise why would they play him over grossman even though he was hurt?
c'mon dude try and inject a little realism into your arguement !

tumbana

07-01-2009, 09:32 PM

why do you continue to get personal ?
its a fact that the bears were a better team with orton last year...otherwise why would they play him over grossman even though he was hurt?
c'mon dude try and inject a little realism into your arguement !

Because Grossman is garbage.

Average/mediocre > garbage

T.K.O.

07-01-2009, 09:51 PM

Because Grossman is garbage.

Average/mediocre > garbage

ah so now orton is average ? well if thats the case then he will do well with a great set of recievers and a very good running game which denver always has.
and now thanks to the xtra picks we got the best rb in the draft so orton should be great !
we finally agree on something.
i have said all along that orton was an average qb..... and thats all we should need with the brightest young head coach in the league.
the mind behind the 18-0 pats and the guy who engineered brady's 50 td season and made a back up like cassel look like the 2nd coming of peyton manning
thats all....we'll be fine with average
and you can hope that all you needed was a savior like cutler....
i just think my point of view is based in "reality" while yours is predicated on cutlwer doing something he has never done...carry a mediocre team to the playoffs and beyond.
good luck with that...no really i hope he proves everybody wrong and finally wins.
and if by some great miracle ! it would be awesome for denver to face chicago in the superbowl....man what a story that would be
unfortunately even with cutler i dont see the bears getting there in the near future
on the other hand denver might just have the running back they have been looking for since T.D. and a smart coach who knows how to use his qb and the rest of the team to their full potential.(see patriots) thank you and good night !

tumbana

07-01-2009, 10:05 PM

ah so now orton is average ? well if thats the case then he will do well with a great set of recievers and a very good running game which denver always has.
and now thanks to the xtra picks we got the best rb in the draft so orton should be great !
we finally agree on something.
i have said all along that orton was an average qb..... and thats all we should need with the brightest young head coach in the league.
the mind behind the 18-0 pats and the guy who engineered brady's 50 td season and made a back up like cassel look like the 2nd coming of peyton manning
thats all....we'll be fine with average
and you can hope that all you needed was a savior like cutler....
i just think my point of view is based in "reality" while yours is predicated on cutlwer doing something he has never done...carry a mediocre team to the playoffs and beyond.
good luck with that...no really i hope he proves everybody wrong and finally wins.
and if by some great miracle ! it would be awesome for denver to face chicago in the superbowl....man what a story that would be
unfortunately even with cutler i dont see the bears getting there in the near future
on the other hand denver might just have the running back they have been looking for since T.D. and a smart coach who knows how to use his qb and the rest of the team to their full potential.(see patriots) thank you and good night !
O

M

G

The dumbest and most kool-aid drinking post I have ever read. LOL! I know what you were trying to do here. Say something so outlandish, so baseless, and so stupid that I would leave! Nice try, but it won't work.

really though, that was quite a post. ALMOST made me think you were being serious.

Foochacho

07-01-2009, 10:11 PM

O

M

G

The dumbest and most kool-aid drinking post I have ever read. LOL! I know what you were trying to do here. Say something so outlandish, so baseless, and so stupid that I would leave! Nice try, but it won't work.

really though, that was quite a post. ALMOST made me think you were being serious.

Why is this turd stinking up all our threads? Dude go to smack forums or ****.

topscribe

07-01-2009, 10:16 PM

Why is this turd stinking up all our threads? Dude go to smack forums or ****.

I was wondering the same thing.

-----

GEM

07-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Timmy!

07-02-2009, 12:39 AM

http://www.firstandtensportsden.com/store/images/product_images/VINYLMAGNET-BEARS.jpg

+

http://blogs.setonhill.edu/DenamarieErcolani/troll.jpg

=
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/political-pictures-subway-biohazard-drill-oblivious.jpg

/thread

frenchfan

07-02-2009, 01:42 AM

Who's owning who? Last time I checked the preseason is still over a month away and training camp hasn't even started. All this saber rattling and chest thumping is going to be a moot point until we see what happens. Until then, this is nothing but a bunch of homers with baseless speculation saying, "OH YEAH??!"

Teams will adjust to whatever schemes the Broncos or the Bears run next year, you can't point out good TE sets or RB's because the good teams will take that away from you. Any QB, Cutler, Orton, Manning-doesn't matter-will suck if they have to throw 40 times a game. The key this season is keeping the defense guessing, and we'll see who does a better job of that when the season starts. Until then, this offseason is really boring. At least the Rockies are doing good and the Nuggets made things easier too!

Bottom line, Cutler will probably do fine and Orton may do better than expected. Its too early to start waiting in line for Super Bowl tickets, especially in regards to the Broncos or the Bears! I hope every year to make the playoffs, and thats my goal again. Anything beyond that is just frosting. Damn, I'm hungry now. Gotta go!Balanced O and good D is the key to SB...

I love 80 yards TD drives with a lot of plays and a lot of ball control... I'd take this over a 80 yards TD bomb that takes only a few second and then exposes our weak D...
All we need, is one drive per quarter... a TD or FG drive of about 15 minutes... :D

I'm fed up with Orton vs Cutler blabla...
Jay is not a Bronco anymore... Goodbye Jay... Have fun in Chicago...
Orton is our new QB... Welcome Kyle... Enjoy your time in Denver... it can be great... Just lead us to playoffs and everybody will forget all the stupid stuff...

Jay is more gifted than Orton... That doesn't mean Kyle is a bad QB... He can be a great surprise this year (and I hope so)... Go Kyle ! :elefant:

ursamajor

07-02-2009, 08:23 PM

unfortunately even with cutler i dont see the bears getting there in the near future

Two things:

1) the Bears are in the Wide Open NFC, and have a Soft Schedule. To illustrate my point, The NFC was represented by a .500 team in the SB last season. The Bears were 9-7 and should have been 12-4.

2) The Bears aren't that far removed from a 13-3 Superbowl year. The Bears are more talented heading into the upcoming season then they were that season.

I could very easily see Cutler leading Chicago back to the big one.

Lonestar

07-02-2009, 08:30 PM

Two things:

1) the Bears are in the Wide Open NFC, and have a Soft Schedule. To illustrate my point, The NFC was represented by a .500 team in the SB last season. The Bears were 9-7 and should have been 12-4.

2) The Bears aren't that far removed from a 13-3 Superbowl year. The Bears are more talented heading into the upcoming season then they were that season.

I could very easily see Cutler leading Chicago back to the big one.

well not so good luck next year because we want that top 10 pick..

BTW you really do not know jay like we do.. cutler so far is anything but a winner in the college or the pros..

and also do not forget his new OC is the guy that would not give him a scholarship to U of IL unless he played safety.. that is not awe inspiring as a OC..

I'm glad he is gone from DEN and I'm also glad you like the guy.. hope he does not disappoint you like he did US..

ursamajor

07-02-2009, 08:49 PM

well not so good luck next year because we want that top 10 pick..

BTW you really do not know jay like we do.. cutler so far is anything but a winner in the college or the pros..

and also do not forget his new OC is the guy that would not give him a scholarship to U of IL unless he played safety.. that is not awe inspiring as a OC..

I'm glad he is gone from DEN and I'm also glad you like the guy.. hope he does not disappoint you like he did US..

What was Plummer's record in AZ?

T.K.O.

07-02-2009, 09:06 PM

What was Plummer's record in AZ?

uhhh...alot worse than in denver....you just made his point !
plummer won 70%+ of his games in denver
it wasnt until cutler took over that weve been sub.500

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:14 PM

What was Plummer's record in AZ?

Depends. You talking about the Cardinals, or ASU? Plummer tore the PAC-10
up in college. He also managed to lead the Cardinals to the playoffs, as well as
being a Pro Bowl alternate one year.

But what does Plummer have to do with it?

-----

tumbana

07-02-2009, 09:16 PM

uhhh...alot worse than in denver....you just made his point !
plummer won 70%+ of his games in denver
it wasnt until cutler took over that weve been sub.500

Or it wasn't until you had arguably the worst defense and special teams in the NFL that you started being sub .500.

tumbana

07-02-2009, 09:24 PM

Depends. You talking about the Cardinals, or ASU? Plummer tore the PAC-10
up in college. He also managed to lead the Cardinals to the playoffs, as well as
being a Pro Bowl alternate one year.

But what does Plummer have to do with it?

-----

The Cardinals went 34-62 with Plummer as their #1 QB. The one year he "led them" to the playoffs, the Cardinals beat one team that had more than 6 wins and got knocked out of the first round while Plummer had a robust 75 QBR while throwing 17 TDs and 20 INTs.

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:27 PM

Two things:

The Bears are more talented heading into the upcoming season then they were that season.

You're talking about 2006, of course. So that would depend on what they have
done with their defense since last year. In 2008, they were #16 in the points
allowed and #21 in yards allowed. In 2006, they were #3 and #5, respectively.

I believe, with a year's experience under Hester's belt at WR and the addiition
of Forte, the Bears are a little more talented offensively. But I think huge
questions remain defensively.

-----

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:30 PM

The Cardinals went 34-62 with Plummer as their #1 QB. The one year he "led them" to the playoffs, the Cardinals beat one team that had more than 6 wins and got knocked out of the first round while Plummer had a robust 75 QBR while throwing 17 TDs and 20 INTs.

The point is, Cutler never gave himself the opportunity to get knocked out of
the first round. The first year the Broncos failed to make the playoffs since
Plummer arrived was the year Cutler took over at QB.

And you forgot all about ASU, didn't you? You know, as opposed to Vandy?

-----

tumbana

07-02-2009, 09:33 PM

The point is, Cutler never gave himself the opportunity to get knocked out of
the first round. The first year the Broncos failed to make the playoffs since
Plummer arrived was the year Cutler took over at QB.

And you forgot all about ASU, didn't you? You know, as opposed to Vandy?

-----

I don't follow college, for one. And not many QBs will have an opportunity to show what they can do with defense and special teams like that. Plummer had easily a top 10 defense his whole Denver career. Cutler had a bottom of the barrel type D and special teams including returners, kickers, punters, and just overall anything outside of the offense. Then you factor in offensive philosphy changing for the worst, and you have a .500 team. Simple football math. Bad at one phase and good at the other = mediocre team.

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:40 PM

I don't follow college, for one. And not many QBs will have an opportunity to show what they can do with defense and special teams like that. Plummer had easily a top 10 defense his whole Denver career. Cutler had a bottom of the barrel type D and special teams including returners, kickers, punters, and just overall anything outside of the offense. Then you factor in offensive philosphy changing for the worst, and you have a .500 team. Simple football math. Bad at one phase and good at the other = mediocre team.

The question was asked, what did Plummer do before he came to the Broncos?
I answered that question. That is all.

-----

tumbana

07-02-2009, 09:43 PM

The question was asked, what did Plummer do before he came to the Broncos?
I answered that question. That is all.

-----

No, the question was how he did in Arizona. As in the Cardinals. That is all.

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:45 PM

No, the question was how he did in Arizona. As in the Cardinals. That is all.

ASU is in Arizona. That is all.

-----

tumbana

07-02-2009, 09:49 PM

ASU is in Arizona. That is all.

-----

That's Arizona State. Unless he played for Arizona in college, I suggest you stop dodging sir.

topscribe

07-02-2009, 09:52 PM

That's Arizona State. Unless he played for Arizona in college, I suggest you stop dodging sir.

Arizona State University is in the State of Arizona. That is in Tempe, a suburb
of Phoenix, a little over 1½ hours up the road from my house. The University
of Arizona is almost within walking distance of my house.

So the question was how Plummer did in Arizona. When he was with ASU, he
was in Arizona. Not Mississippi, not Florida, not Kansas, but Arizona.

*sheesh*

-----

dogfish

07-02-2009, 09:55 PM

man, and i thought T was only joking when he kept threatening to turn this place into BearForums.com . . . .

sad turn of events. . . .

ursamajor

07-02-2009, 09:55 PM

You're talking about 2006, of course. So that would depend on what they have
done with their defense since last year. In 2008, they were #16 in the points
allowed and #21 in yards allowed. In 2006, they were #3 and #5, respectively.

I believe, with a year's experience under Hester's belt at WR and the addiition
of Forte, the Bears are a little more talented offensively. But I think huge
questions remain defensively.

-----

The real difference in performance between '06 and '08 was pass rush from the Defensive line. Yards per play was a difference of .3 (4.6 to 4.9). 3rd down percentage etc was all in line. I am confident Marinelli will have them dogs hunting. TOP was also alot more favorable for the '06 defense then the '08 defense. I see improvements made to the offense (QB and Line) that should help in that area.

topscribe

07-02-2009, 10:02 PM

man, and i thought T was only joking when he kept threatening to turn this place into BearForums.com . . . .

sad turn of events. . . .

We have Raiders fans, Chargers fans, Chiefs fans, and Bengals fans here. Now,
there are two Bears fans. Is that a problem?

-----

Lonestar

07-03-2009, 02:20 AM

The question was asked, what did Plummer do before he came to the Broncos?
I answered that question. That is all.

-----

No, the question was how he did in Arizona. As in the Cardinals. That is all.

the key to all of this is cutler had a superb offensive group around him in denver as did Jake, coaches were great, OLINE was mostly above average for their stays here.

conversely jay has neither going for him in chicago offensive coaching staff from the OC down reeks as compared to DEN.. the play calling will not be as state of the art nor will be the players around him..

the new HC and OC for Orton will play to his strengths

will have one of the best OLINES in the NFL going for him..

even without marshall should he leave the WR in DEN are heads and above what chicago has..

the TE's are probably a toss up if Scheffler stays healthy..

and running backs well if Moreno performs like he should along with Hillis as fullback.. should equal or far exceed what the bears have..

again let me state the obvious josh and crew are going to get more out of Orton than the dumb ass in CHI can get out of jay and company..

at least that is how I see it.. since this is a thread about QB vs QB any talk of D or ST seems to be unwaranted.

Tned

07-03-2009, 10:12 AM

the key to all of this is cutler had a superb offensive group around him in denver as did Jake, coaches were great, OLINE was mostly above average for their stays here.

conversely jay has neither going for him in chicago offensive coaching staff from the OC down reeks as compared to DEN.. the play calling will not be as state of the art nor will be the players around him..

the new HC and OC for Orton will play to his strengths

will have one of the best OLINES in the NFL going for him..

even without marshall should he leave the WR in DEN are heads and above what chicago has..

the TE's are probably a toss up if Scheffler stays healthy..

and running backs well if Moreno performs like he should along with Hillis as fullback.. should equal or far exceed what the bears have..

again let me state the obvious josh and crew are going to get more out of Orton than the dumb ass in CHI can get out of jay and company..

at least that is how I see it.. since this is a thread about QB vs QB any talk of D or ST seems to be unwaranted.

The Chicago TE trio is considered one of the best in the league. Forte is a stud running back, we 'hope' Moreno will be one. Can't close to calling these a toss up or advantage Denver at this point, until we see what Moreno does on the field, and when (he might run 2nd or 3rd string for a while), how Scheffler is used, etc.

T.K.O.

07-03-2009, 11:07 AM

Or it wasn't until you had arguably the worst defense and special teams in the NFL that you started being sub .500.

maybe but our downhill slide started the day cutler took the field we were 7-5 and looked to have a pretty easy ride to at least a wildcard....then
2 1/2 seasons sub .500
maybe he's just bad luck ?
dont care now.....now its time for a new chapter in broncos history and i am stoked about the possibilities.
we have a fresh stable of horses including some of the best prospects at their position.
a new coach who has proven he knows how to field the most potent offense in the game
a dc that can definately help our the sub standard d weve had for 3 years
a qb who wins more than he loses and will NOT throw the game away late in the 4th qtr
and they are the BRONCOS so their better than everyone else !:salute:

Ravage!!!

07-03-2009, 11:17 AM

maybe but our downhill slide started the day cutler took the field we were 7-5 and looked to have a pretty easy ride to at least a wildcard....then
2 1/2 seasons sub .500

Thats not accurate. Our team was NOT good that '06 season, and Plummer was looking BAD. Cutler broke rookie records for multible TD passes in his first four games, and INCREASED the offensive points per game over Plummer. We did NOT have some "pretty easy ride" considering how bad the team was playing that season. Shanahan didn't choose to put Cutler in because Plummer was playing WELL. It was a split right down the middle as to the fans on wanting the rookie in over Jake at that time... if NOT a majority considering how bad Plummer was playing.

Our "downfall" didn't start with Cutler. Cutler just came in BECAUSE the slide was starting to get out of control.

underrated29

07-03-2009, 11:31 AM

i would like to add to that how many games exactly did jay throw away in the 4th quarter??? And what did the team do during the first 3 quarters to make it that way.

Also how many games did Jay win in the 4th quarter?

I still can not believe how people have just suddenly turned their backs on Jay and now think he is worthless and talentless and is just an average quarterback.....It is absolutely amazing to me.

I dont know how many trades for qbs have gone down in the past....

But i am fairly certain that 2 1ST RD PICKS AND A STARTING QUARTERBACK are not given up for just a talent at qb. Or a Qb who is a headcase or throws games away in the 4th quarter.

That is probably one of the biggest trades in NFL history! Yet it was for a turnover prone, nutjob.....

Check again people. For what ever reason you all hate jay, you cant say he is a bad qb or average or anything else that has been spewed. He is a GREAT QB and is going to be one of the best before its all said and done.

Sadly it wont be for us, and so we must root against him. But all bais aside, he is a gamer.

T.K.O.

07-03-2009, 11:31 AM

Thats not accurate. Our team was NOT good that '06 season, and Plummer was looking BAD. Cutler broke rookie records for multible TD passes in his first four games, and INCREASED the offensive points per game over Plummer. We did NOT have some "pretty easy ride" considering how bad the team was playing that season. Shanahan didn't choose to put Cutler in because Plummer was playing WELL. It was a split right down the middle as to the fans on wanting the rookie in over Jake at that time... if NOT a majority considering how bad Plummer was playing.

Our "downfall" didn't start with Cutler. Cutler just came in BECAUSE the slide was starting to get out of control.

well we went from a 7-5 start which included a 5 game win streak and finished 9-7 and lost a critical game against a poor 49er team that would have got us to the playoffs.
i didnt say it was all cutlers fault,but again we cant credit him for the wins and not share the blame for the losses
it was just a pattern with the whole team to play almost well enough to do something and then fall fglat
maybe it was part the coach,maybe it was a big part the defense and maybe it was the lack of leadership on the field?
but no matter how you polish it ,it was still a turd
and we have changed coaches ,defensive coaches and philosophy and qb
so i for one think we likely fixed some of the problems !

T.K.O.

07-03-2009, 11:44 AM

I still can not believe how people have just suddenly turned their backs on Jay and now think he is worthless and talentless and is just an average quarterback.....It is absolutely amazing to me.

I dont know how many trades for qbs have gone down in the past....

But i am fairly certain that 2 1ST RD PICKS AND A STARTING QUARTERBACK are not given up for just a talent at qb. Or a Qb who is a headcase or throws games away in the 4th quarter.

That is probably one of the biggest trades in NFL history! Yet it was for a turnover prone, nutjob.....

Check again people. For what ever reason you all hate jay, you cant say he is a bad qb or average or anything else that has been spewed. He is a GREAT QB and is going to be one of the best before its all said and done.

Sadly it wont be for us, and so we must root against him. But all bais aside, he is a gamer.

at least you realize jay was a turnover prone nutjob......

and if you remember it was'nt WE TURNING OUR BACKS ON JAY ! IT WAS JAY TURNING HIS BACK ON US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes he is a gamer,my point is that for whatever reason when the chips were down and the season on the line ....he always played his WORST
some qb's have it and some dont
jay has yet to prove he HAS IT
very few qb's have EVER had a great defense,running backs and recievers all at the same time,it is often up to them to play great and will the rest of the team to victory.....(SEE JOHN ELWAY 1980's)
im just saying i dont owe jay cutler jack shIS, he bailed on me as a fan,why should i sit around and praise some dude that lost more than 1/2 his games and acted like he was one of the goat's while doing it ?
again he is more gifted than many qb's in the league,but he hasnt done anything more than put up pedestrian td/int ratios and a bunch of yards with a bevy of injured backs and lopsided playcalling.not to mention a beast of a wr who is known for his yac.
he's not the best qb ever and may never ...NEVER get to the playoffs
so what? big deal....he's not a bronco ! and i dont like his style

tumbana

07-03-2009, 06:24 PM

at least you realize jay was a turnover prone nutjob......

He turns the ball over at the same pace (as in RATE) as your beloved Orton despite being in a more dangerous offensive scheme.

and if you remember it was'nt WE TURNING OUR BACKS ON JAY ! IT WAS JAY TURNING HIS BACK ON US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can put it that way, or you can also say McDaniels turned his back on Cutler.

yes he is a gamer,my point is that for whatever reason when the chips were down and the season on the line ....he always played his WORST
some qb's have it and some dont

Most QBs usually don't play too well when their defense gives up 40 ppg down the stretch and he has to start at his own 20 every drive. Then do nothing but pass.

jay has yet to prove he HAS IT

What is "it?" To be able to make up for possibly the worst defense and special teams in the NFL and a very unbalanced offensive scheme whenever he feels like it?

very few qb's have EVER had a great defense,running backs and recievers all at the same time,it is often up to them to play great and will the rest of the team to victory.....(SEE JOHN ELWAY 1980's)
If you have a defense, you have a chance, period. The Broncos of the 80's under Elway ranked pretty high when it came to giving up points in most of those years. Not to mention them stepping up when they needed to as well. Football is a team sport.

im just saying i dont owe jay cutler jack shIS, he bailed on me as a fan,why should i sit around and praise some dude that lost more than 1/2 his games and acted like he was one of the goat's while doing it ?

Acted like one of the goats? By having confidence? I didn't know QBs didn't need that. By the way, Cutler didn;t lose more than half his games. The Broncos lost more than half their games.

again he is more gifted than many qb's in the league,but he hasnt done anything more than put up pedestrian td/int ratios and a bunch of yards with a bevy of injured backs and lopsided playcalling.not to mention a beast of a wr who is known for his yac.
Is a bunch of injured backs and lopsided playcalling supposed to help him? Anyone who knows jack about football knows it doesn't lol. And last I checked, Cutler threw the ball to that 4th round pick. Take a look at the numbers of guys like Favre and Elway at the same point in their careers. The funny thing is you would probably be saying the same thing about them if the names were different. Of course, you may talk smack about any QB not named Kyle Orton.

he's not the best qb ever and may never ...NEVER get to the playoffs
so what? big deal....he's not a bronco ! and i dont like his style

A 26 year old QB of his caliber may never make the playoffs? I would put my money he will make quite a few before it is said and done.

WARHORSE

07-03-2009, 07:02 PM

The fans of the Broncos were high on Jay because of the potential that is out there still with him. Also, because the things that he didnt do well were things that can be possibly addressed and overcome with experience, film study and learning.

BUT, Jay was not, and is not realized as of yet as a consistent force from the QB position.

The QB must protect the possession of the football first and foremost.

Without possession of the football, you cannot score.

If you cannot score, you cannot win.

For all his physical ability, Cutler has yet to put it all together.

Take a look at Michael Vick. Even more talented physically than Cutler.

The must have qualities of winning QB play are as follows:

MUST BE ABLE TO LEARN COMPLEX NFL OFFENSES IN THEIR ENTIRETY.
*MUST BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE FOOTBALL.
*MUST BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE DEFENSE IN FRONT OF HIM.
*MUST BE ABLE TO STAY POISED UNDER PRESSURE.
*MUST BE ABLE TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.
*MUST BE A LEADER.
*MUST BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THE RIGORS OF THE NFL, BOTH MENTAL, PHYSICAL, AND SOCIAL.
MUST BE ABLE TO GET THE BALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE PLAYMAKERS.
MUST BE WILLING TO TRUST HIS EYES AND HIS ABILITY.

BIG ARM AND MOBILITY ARE PLUSES.
BUT NOT REQUIRED.

The areas above that have stars next to them, are areas that are still up in the air for Cutler..........Cutler can spin the rock, but is by no means a made QB. His POTENTIAL is OFF THE CHARTS.....and he has ALL the tools.

Next to John Elway coming out of college, I dont think anyone matches up to Jays physical abilities and potential.

He was traded for all those draft picks for the same reason the Giants traded all those picks for Eli.

POTENTIAL still possible in looking at the body of work to date.

Cutler has the POTENTIAL to be an all time great.

But so did Jeff George. Mike Vick. Ryan Leaf. Todd Marinovich. Todd Blackledge........etc.....etc.......etc.

Look at all the good to great QBs that ever played, and how many were top draft picks.

QBs are a rare find. And few live up to expectation.

I hope Cutler becomes all that he can be..........but he still SUCKS as long as hes wearing a black helmet with a big 'C' on it that stands for CLOWNS.:coffee:

ursamajor

07-03-2009, 07:08 PM

I hope Cutler becomes all that he can be..........but he still SUCKS as long as hes wearing a black helmet with a big 'C' on it that stands for CLOWNS.:coffee:

Good thing he isn't going to be wearing a black helmet with a big 'C' on it

topscribe

07-03-2009, 07:20 PM

Good thing he isn't going to be wearing a black helmet with a big 'C' on it

Yes, that is a good thing.

It's also a good thing this is not the Smack forum. *hint, hint*

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T.K.O.

07-05-2009, 04:15 PM

He turns the ball over at the same pace (as in RATE) as your beloved Orton despite being in a more dangerous offensive scheme.

ACTUALLY NO,but close

You can put it that way, or you can also say McDaniels turned his back on Cutler.

I COULD BUT ITS NOT TRUE...mcd spent over a month trying to sooth jay's ego and in the end jay admitted he didnt want traded he wanted $$$
Most QBs usually don't play too well when their defense gives up 40 ppg down the stretch and he has to start at his own 20 every drive. Then do nothing but pass.

YEAH BUT JAY IS'NT "MOST QB'S ...right?
What is "it?" To be able to make up for possibly the worst defense and special teams in the NFL and a very unbalanced offensive scheme whenever he feels like it?
IT ....is the inate ability to get your team to believe in you and be able to make the plays that you need to WIN.especially when the whole season is on the line....and it shouldnt matter if you start at the 2 yd line(again see john elway)
If you have a defense, you have a chance, period. The Broncos of the 80's under Elway ranked pretty high when it came to giving up points in most of those years. Not to mention them stepping up when they needed to as well. Football is a team sport.
exactly!

Acted like one of the goats? By having confidence? I didn't know QBs didn't need that. By the way, Cutler didn;t lose more than half his games. The Broncos lost more than half their games.
ok right cutler won almost 1/2 his games,but the team lost the rest....what were you saying about team sport?

Is a bunch of injured backs and lopsided playcalling supposed to help him? Anyone who knows jack about football knows it doesn't lol. And last I checked, Cutler threw the ball to that 4th round pick. Take a look at the numbers of guys like Favre and Elway at the same point in their careers. The funny thing is you would probably be saying the same thing about them if the names were different. Of course, you may talk smack about any QB not named Kyle Orton.

well obviously i dont know anything about football....i do know that you will get more yards passing if you throw the ball 600+ times than if you throw it 350 times.....if thats to "rocket sciency " for ya i'll try to slow it down.
my point (which apparently went over your head,like a cutler bullet over little devin hesters) was that jay can throw the ball well and gain alot of yards ,but has not proven himself a leader in any aspect
now including ditching his team when his greatness was even questioned

A 26 year old QB of his caliber may never make the playoffs? I would put my money he will make quite a few before it is said and done.

go ahead,just dont bet more than you can afford to lose,cuz there is no proof he can take a team any farther than 8-8 at this point in his career.
he may win the superbowl next year....but i wouldnt bet on that!

Simple Jaded

07-05-2009, 05:58 PM

Kyle Orton is the Anti-Cutler, he's a complete stiff but at least he's mature.......

tumbana

07-05-2009, 07:05 PM

go ahead,just dont bet more than you can afford to lose,cuz there is no proof he can take a team any farther than 8-8 at this point in his career.
he may win the superbowl next year....but i wouldnt bet on that!

I would bet on him winning the SB LONG before Orton does. He can take a team as far as they allow him to.

ACTUALLY NO,but close

Actually, VERY close. And that is while not being in an offensive scheme that was much more safe and was made to hide Orton's real weaknesses. As opposed to being on a totally unbalanced offense that had to start at the 20 every drive and make up for 28 PPG. Pretty impressive considering that people make Cutler out to be some turnover machine.

I COULD BUT ITS NOT TRUE...mcd spent over a month trying to sooth jay's ego and in the end jay admitted he didnt want traded he wanted $$$
McD didn;t spend over a month doing anything. He called Jay his guy, proceeded to try and trade him for a one year wonder, and the rest is history.

YEAH BUT JAY IS'NT "MOST QB'S ...right?

oops, my bad. ALL QBs. When a defense and special teams is consistently bad and completely one sided play calling the team is going to have some trouble winning a lot of games. Just look at the Saints. They have Drew Brees, a bad defense, a bad special teams, and an unbalanced offense. They have the exact same record as the Broncos over the last two years. In 06, they actually had somewhat of a running game and their defense was somewhat decent and got hot at the right time as well. They got to the NFC championship game before getting pummeled by a team with a really good defense that forced turnovers and a really good running game even though they had a pretty bad QB (Bears).

Also, look at the Cardinals of 08. They won their division in the NFC West at 9-7. They got beat pretty bad by any decent team. They won 2 games outside of their division and that was to the Bills (7-9 and lost 7 of their last 10 games) and the Cowboys (9-7) in overtime by a blocked punt (look special teams). Everyone expected them to get blown out in both of their 1st playoff games. Instead, they barely lost in the SB. They did so because their defense got red hot and started forcing a lot of turnovers and they also started to run a lot more often and did so successfully.

IT ....is the inate ability to get your team to believe in you and be able to make the plays that you need to WIN.especially when the whole season is on the line....and it shouldnt matter if you start at the 2 yd line(again see john elway)

It's easy to be able to show that you can "lead your team to victory" when you are kept in the game. There were more times in 08 where Jay was able to do so late in games with big drives in close games such as the 1st chargers game, the Falcons game, the Jets game, the Browns game, that Cheifs game where he was backed at his own one with a small lead he kept the drive going to put the Cheifs away, and even the Bills game where the defense gave up 30 but he drove his team all the way down field with a chance to win before a pass escaped Brandon Stokely that would have won the game. You can't be money EVERY time, especially when you are down by multiple scores throughout the game.

exactly!

So you agree that it wasn't just Elway doing it all alone like you make it out to be?

ok right cutler won almost 1/2 his games,but the team lost the rest....what were you saying about team sport?

I never said that. I said the BRONCOS lost more than half their games. Like, as a TEAM. Yet you say Cutler's record is below .500 simply because of him and it shows that he can't win games.

well obviously i dont know anything about football....i do know that you will get more yards passing if you throw the ball 600+ times than if you throw it 350 times.....if thats to "rocket sciency " for ya i'll try to slow it down.
my point (which apparently went over your head,like a cutler bullet over little devin hesters) was that jay can throw the ball well and gain alot of yards ,but has not proven himself a leader in any aspect
now including ditching his team when his greatness was even questioned

I never said you won't get more yards throwing a lot, but there is a pretty big downside to throwing the ball that much in such an unbalanced offense. It makes the defenses jobs easier, especially when the offense is backed up or when they make it to the red zone. Not to mention it makes it difficult to exploit defenses down the field.

As for him proving he was leader in any aspect, is that a reason why he was named captain so quickly? Why he had teammates live with him so that they could study tape and practice? Those late game performances I mentioned? Of course you are going to ignore everything that could possibly contradict what you are saying. It's not like the Bears players and coaches haven't been raving about his leadership thus far.

It's all about King Kyle, though, right? The leader? The future hall of famer and perennial pro-bowler?

Simple Jaded

07-05-2009, 08:16 PM

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 08:35 PM

It's all about King Kyle, though, right? The leader? The future hall of famer and perennial pro-bowler?

You seem to really be bitter about Orton.. did he do something to you personally to dislike like him so much?

We had a guy on Mania that hated Jake so bad, it was almost like it was his sister that he stood up in Hawaii..

what is your story?

topscribe

07-05-2009, 08:38 PM

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 08:39 PM

Kyle Orton: 27 Int's in 913 career passes = 0.03.

Jay Cutler: 37 Int's in 1220 career passes = 0.03.

I suppose Orton's career percentage is somehow better simply because he is supposedly a better fit for the new system, it can be no other way. I love irony.......

we all know that jay threw it into double to triple coverage alot because he thought he could get away with it..

We have all been told that Orton does not force passes and finds open receivers which should be a huge upgrade if that is the case regardless on %'s..

Are you telling me that you know for sure that Orton did the same thing.. It is it just because it is not jay and mike in DEN this year that has your panties in a wad..

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 08:40 PM

Or maybe it was his sister Jake flipped off . . . :lol:

-----

he would neither confirm or deny either when I asked him..

but it was pure hatered alright.. some day he will let us know..

tumbana

07-05-2009, 08:48 PM

You seem to really be bitter about Orton.. did he do something to you personally to dislike like him so much?

We had a guy on Mania that hated Jake so bad, it was almost like it was his sister that he stood up in Hawaii..

what is your story?

I'm not bitter about Orton, I'm just saying things like that to specific posters like TKO, KO8pectate from Mania (I really think they are the same guy), and neckbeard AKA Dennis from Mania. When I read some of the things they type about him, I swear I think I'm reading about some future hall of famer or Tom Brady or Joe Montana. He "carries" his team. He is a "winner." He is a "leader." He's better than Jay Cutler. And a bunch of other stuff. It gets annoying reading total bs like that from the same people.

Simple Jaded

07-05-2009, 08:50 PM

we all know that jay threw it into double to triple coverage alot because he thought he could get away with it..

We have all been told that Orton does not force passes and finds open receivers which should be a huge upgrade if that is the case regardless on %'s..

Are you telling me that you know for sure that Orton did the same thing.. It is it just because it is not jay and mike in DEN this year that has your panties in a wad..

So Orton's mistakes are better because he can rack up as many Int's without trying to make something happen? That's stupid!

What I will tell you is that I'm willing to bet that I've seen more of Kyle Orton than you have (I've seen him hit a wide open DT in stride while trying to make something happen, that's always awesome), so until that changes, assume that it is Kyle Orton being in Denver that has my panties in a bunch.......nothing about Kyle Orton is a "huge upgrade".......

topscribe

07-05-2009, 08:51 PM

I'm not bitter about Orton, I'm just saying things like that to specific posters like TKO, KO8pectate from Mania (I really think they are the same guy), and neckbeard AKA Dennis from Mania. When I read some of the things they type about him, I swear I think I'm reading about some future hall of famer or Tom Brady or Joe Montana. He "carries" his team. He is a "winner." He is a "leader." He's better than Jay Cutler. And a bunch of other stuff. It gets annoying reading total bs like that from the same people.

Well, the way you have been spamming against Orton on two different boards,
it seems he is a burr in your butt in one way or another. :nod:

And, talking about the same guy, you have some wondering here whether you
are that OaklandRaider guy, from the way you tend to troll. There's another
guy you may remotely resemble, too: we knew him as PatriotsRuleYou (PRY).

Hmmm . . . :confused:

-----

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 08:56 PM

I'm not bitter about Orton, I'm just saying things like that to specific posters like TKO, KO8pectate from Mania (I really think they are the same guy), and neckbeard AKA Dennis from Mania. When I read some of the things they type about him, I swear I think I'm reading about some future hall of famer or Tom Brady or Joe Montana. He "carries" his team. He is a "winner." He is a "leader." He's better than Jay Cutler. And a bunch of other stuff. It gets annoying reading total bs like that from the same people.

place them on IGGY as I'm sure many folks have you and then it is not an issue and you can post without being bitter..

We know what we gave up many of us think it was a good move.. some do not ..

I will not lose sleep over whether cutler is gone, as I have always saw Jeff George in him.. Many thought he was John reincarnated.. and we have all found out he is not.. he is some where in between.. and IMHO not worth the money Y'all are going to have to shell out to keep him when his contract expires..

tumbana

07-05-2009, 08:57 PM

Well, the way you have been spamming against Orton on two different boards,
it seems he is a burr in your butt in one way or another. :nod:

And, talking about the same guy, you have some wondering here whether you
are that OaklandRaider guy, from the way you tend to troll. There's another
guy you may remotely resemble, too: we knew him as PatriotsRuleYou (PRY).

Hmmm . . . :confused:

-----
Notice all the bigger arguments I have gotten into in both boards. I guarantee you they have to do with three things:

The Bears are in any way brought up

Orton getting more credit than he deserved as a Bear by the Orton fans that just joined that board because he became a Bronco.

Jay Cutler (my new QB) getting attacked by the same fans that were just on his nuts not long before (not everyone, but a lot of people).

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 09:02 PM

So Orton's mistakes are better because he can rack up as many Int's without trying to make something happen? That's stupid!

What I will tell you is that I'm willing to bet that I've seen more of Kyle Orton than you have (I've seen him hit a wide open DT in stride while trying to make something happen, that's always awesome), so until that changes, assume that it is Kyle Orton being in Denver that has my panties in a bunch.......nothing about Kyle Orton is a "huge upgrade".......

well once again I thank you for calling me and many others stupid..

I have not seen him play all that much and I will bow down to your vast knowledge on the subject..

but since jay and mike are no longer here it is either time to move on IMHO.. if you no longer have confidence in the team or FO frankly it is beyond me why you waste your time and why your frustrated about something that is not going to change for the next 2-3 years..

NOW you say the pot calling the kettle black I railed against mikey for almost a half a decade.. Well I saw it coming, but frankly have to say it surprised me it happened the way it did..

Now that is done I'm going to get behind the current coach and players TILL THEY PROVE to me they are not what I think they are..

topscribe

07-05-2009, 09:03 PM

Notice all the bigger arguments I have gotten into in both boards. I guarantee you they have to do with three things:

The Bears are in any way brought up

Orton getting more credit than he deserved as a Bear by the Orton fans that just joined that board because he became a Bronco.

Jay Cutler (my new QB) getting attacked by the same fans that were just on his nuts not long before (not everyone, but a lot of people).

I have noticed that Cutler and Orton are about all you have talked about on
either board, very little else. It's one thing to argue your cause regarding a
player, yet another to just squat in the Cutler/Orton threads. There are a lot
of good forums on this board: Don't you have any other interests? You showed
with that one post, on which I gave you a Salute, that you can produce
quality posts in other areas. I guess that's all I am looking for you there. That
is something that Ursamajor has accomplished. You're next . . .

P.S. I'm not trying to be hostile here. I just think you would enjoy this board
a lot more, that's all. :nod:

-----

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:06 PM

place them on IGGY as I'm sure many folks have you and then it is not an issue and you can post without being bitter..

We know what we gave up many of us think it was a good move.. some do not ..

I will not lose sleep over whether cutler is gone, as I have always saw Jeff George in him.. Many thought he was John reincarnated.. and we have all found out he is not.. he is some where in between.. and IMHO not worth the money Y'all are going to have to shell out to keep him when his contract expires..

I personally think ignoring is a little immature and I actually feel good when tearing apart their arguments, so as long as I see the same garbage by them be rehashed, I will cover it.

Considering he's 26, I don't see where you can put any sort of a final label on a guy with 2 years of starting experience, neither of which was on that good of a team. Like I said earlier, look at Favre and Elway at the same point in their careers. Elway's first TEN years were less than stellar, but since it was worth keeping him around, even with two of his "cry baby" situations (the draft and the coaching change), it paid off.

***before topscribe starts telling me I know nothing about Elway, he played in a different era etc, I said TEN years which includes the years that guys like Marino, Young, and Favre just to name a few played in and did significantly better. I am not giving him less credit than he deserves, just that he wasn;t coming out like a house on fire right away. He was a great QB.

In today's NFL, with the media and the fans and whatnot, I bet Elway would not stay with the Broncos and fourish like he did. Jeff George had no work ethic, no leadership, no nothing. He was just simply a moron. Cutler is nothing like him. He resembles Elqay more than he does Geroge and anyone who says he resembles George is honestly either bitter or just a hater. Just because Cutler is physically gifted and demanded a trade doesn't mean he's Jeff George.

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:08 PM

I have noticed that Cutler and Orton are about all you have talked about on
either board, very little else. It's one thing to argue your cause regarding a
player, yet another to just squat in the Cutler/Orton threads. There are a lot
of good forums on this board: Don't you have any other interests? You showed
with that one post, on which I gave you a Salute, that you can produce
quality posts in other areas. I guess that's all I am looking for you there. That
is something that Ursamajor has accomplished. You're next . . .

P.S. I'm not trying to be hostile here. I just think you would enjoy this board
a lot more, that's all. :nod:

-----
I know that, it's just that these boards are a little slower than Mania and since it's the offseason, the same topics tend to come up and I get heated in those types of threads.

topscribe

07-05-2009, 09:14 PM

I personally think ignoring is a little immature and I actually feel good when tearing apart their arguments, so as long as I see the same garbage by them be rehashed, I will cover it.

Hmmm . . . I've placed people on Iggy . . . is that a sign I need to grow up?

Considering he's 26, I don't see where you can put any sort of a final label on a guy with 2 years of starting experience, neither of which was on that good of a team. Like I said earlier, look at Favre and Elway at the same point in their careers. Elway's first TEN years were less than stellar, but since it was worth keeping him around, even with two of his "cry baby" situations (the draft and the coaching change), it paid off.

***before topscribe starts telling me I know nothing about Elway, he played in a different era etc, I said TEN years which includes the years that guys like Marino, Young, and Favre just to name a few played in and did significantly better. I am not giving him less credit than he deserves, just that he wasn;t coming out like a house on fire right away. He was a great QB.

During Elway's first ten years, he led his team to three (3) Super Bowls.

And you are right about my reaction. You are showing here with your "cry
baby" remark that you know utterly nothing of Elway's history. You were
there when I gave a complete history regarding that on the other board, and
you are persisting in this? Did you not understand my dissertation, or did you
just ignore (immature?) it?

In today's NFL, with the media and the fans and whatnot, I bet Elway would not stay with the Broncos and fourish like he did. Jeff George had no work ethic, no leadership, no nothing. He was just simply a moron. Cutler is nothing like him. He resembles Elqay more than he does Geroge and anyone who says he resembles George is honestly either bitter or just a hater. Just because Cutler is physically gifted and demanded a trade doesn't mean he's Jeff George.

Yes, Elway would have stayed. In fact, during the Cutler ordeal, Elway said in
unmistakable terms that he would have stayed. So much for that idea . . .

-----

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 09:15 PM

I personally think ignoring is a little immature and I actually feel good when tearing apart their arguments, so as long as I see the same garbage by them be rehashed, I will cover it.

Considering he's 26, I don't see where you can put any sort of a final label on a guy with 2 years of starting experience, neither of which was on that good of a team. Like I said earlier, look at Favre and Elway at the same point in their careers. Elway's first TEN years were less than stellar, but since it was worth keeping him around, even with two of his "cry baby" situations (the draft and the coaching change), it paid off.

***before topscribe starts telling me I know nothing about Elway, he played in a different era etc, I said TEN years which includes the years that guys like Marino, Young, and Favre just to name a few played in and did significantly better. I am not giving him less credit than he deserves, just that he wasn;t coming out like a house on fire right away. He was a great QB.

In today's NFL, with the media and the fans and whatnot, I bet Elway would not stay with the Broncos and fourish like he did. Jeff George had no work ethic, no leadership, no nothing. He was just simply a moron. Cutler is nothing like him. He resembles Elqay more than he does Geroge and anyone who says he resembles George is honestly either bitter or just a hater. Just because Cutler is physically gifted and demanded a trade doesn't mean he's Jeff George.

Jeff was a coach killer got a couple three that thought they could harness him fired when they could not..

so far he has one notch on his gun..

jay is got alot of potential but so have hundreds of other QB's that turned out to be less than hoped.. the list is long and undistinguished

you may feel like your tearing up someone arguments but frankly most of the time your not.. we all know your agenda and many folks flat ignore you because they KNOW better..

We really do not care what jay does in CHI except for this coming year most want them to fall flat on their faces just for the draft choice but other than that almost no body cares..

Now do not expect another post from me giving you the facts of life on this forum.. just gracefully trying to let you know your not all that..

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:24 PM

Hmmm . . . I've placed people on Iggy . . . is that a sign I need to grow up?

Depends on who they are. I understand people saying nothing but

"HAHAH OMG BRONCS SUCK LOL THEY WON'T WIN MORE THAN 5 GAMEZ!"

I'm talking LEGIT trolls saying those things and not being able to put forth any good arguments, but if it is simply things you disagree with, even strongly, I don't see why.

During Elway's first ten years, he led his team to three (3) Super Bowls.

He also had a pretty solid defense and they didn't win any of those three. It wasn't until he got a real RB and became a better player that they won. And by less than stellar, I mean his overall numbers including all the INTs, competion %, and QB rating.

And you are right about my reaction. You are showing here with your "cry
baby" remark that you know utterly nothing of Elway's history. You were
there when I gave a complete history regarding that on the other board, and
you are persisting in this? Did you not understand my dissertation, or did you
just ignore (immature?) it?

So when Cutler demands a trade after he loses his new Head coach's trust, he's a crybaby, but when Elway refuses to get drafted by a certain team (before even playing a snap in the NFL) and even getting his way with who his head coach was going to be later on he's being mature? I am not saying anything really bad about Elway, but I hope I am not the only one seeing the double standard here. By the way I didn't call Elway a crybaby I said he had "crybaby moments.

Yes, Elway would have stayed. In fact, during the Cutler ordeal, Elway said in
unmistakable terms that he would have stayed. So much for that idea . . .

-----

Elway said that now, but would a 25 year old Elway have done that? In the same situation? His behavior in the early part of his career says otherwise.

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:29 PM

Jeff was a coach killer got a couple three that thought they could harness him fired when they could not..

so far he has one notch on his gun..

jay is got alot of potential but so have hundreds of other QB's that turned out to be less than hoped.. the list is long and undistinguished

you may feel like your tearing up someone arguments but frankly most of the time your not.. we all know your agenda and many folks flat ignore you because they KNOW better..

We really do not care what jay does in CHI except for this coming year most want them to fall flat on their faces just for the draft choice but other than that almost no body cares..

Now do not expect another post from me giving you the facts of life on this forum.. just gracefully trying to let you know your not all that..
Cutler hasn't gotten any coaches fired and even though he didn't like losing Shanahan, he had nothing at all against McDaniels up until he tried trading Cutler. It even seemed like they were going to develop a nice relationship until the whole thing began when McDaniels was holding up his jersey and called him his guy.

I think I have brought up some decent points here, especially against the Cutler haters.

I don't have anything against the Broncos. I just like talking football, regardless of the topic, even though some topics interest me more than others. The Bears message board for some reason isn't working well on my comp, so until I get the problem resolved within the next week or so, you are going to be seeing a lot of me on here.

topscribe

07-05-2009, 09:39 PM

He also had a pretty solid defense and they didn't win any of those three. It wasn't until he got a real RB and became a better player that they won. And by less than stellar, I mean his overall numbers including all the INTs, competion %, and QB rating.

So when Cutler demands a trade after he loses his new Head coach's trust, he's a crybaby, but when Elway refuses to get drafted by a certain team (before even playing a snap in the NFL) and even getting his way with who his head coach was going to be later on he's being mature? I am not saying anything really bad about Elway, but I hope I am not the only one seeing the double standard here. By the way I didn't call Elway a crybaby I said he had "crybaby moments.

As I said, you know absolutely nothing . . . nada, zip, zilch . . . about Elway's
history, and you have lucidly demonstrated that right here. Please, stop
embarrassing yourself with your claims about Elway to those of us who know
his history quite well. :tsk:

Elway said that now, but would a 25 year old Elway have done that? In the same situation? His behavior in the early part of his career says otherwise.

Cutler has some growing to do before he comes anywhere near what Elway
was at 25. I wouldn't doubt that Elway's son Jack is more mature than Cutler.

-----

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 09:40 PM

Cutler hasn't gotten any coaches fired and even though he didn't like losing Shanahan, he had nothing at all against McDaniels up until he tried trading Cutler. It even seemed like they were going to develop a nice relationship until the whole thing began when McDaniels was holding up his jersey and called him his guy.

I think I have brought up some decent points here, especially against the Cutler haters.

I don't have anything against the Broncos. I just like talking football, regardless of the topic, even though some topics interest me more than others. The Bears message board for some reason isn't working well on my comp, so until I get the problem resolved within the next week or so, you are going to be seeing a lot of me on here.

in case you did not notice mikey got fired.. before that humdinger went as OC. with jay as their QB.. so essentially that was already TWO. I suspect his new OC the one that would not allow him to play anything but safety at U of IL will be next, if not lovie also..

Well there you go thinking again..

Simple Jaded

07-05-2009, 09:46 PM

well once again I thank you for calling me and many others stupid..

I have not seen him play all that much and I will bow down to your vast knowledge on the subject..

but since jay and mike are no longer here it is either time to move on IMHO.. if you no longer have confidence in the team or FO frankly it is beyond me why you waste your time and why your frustrated about something that is not going to change for the next 2-3 years..

NOW you say the pot calling the kettle black I railed against mikey for almost a half a decade.. Well I saw it coming, but frankly have to say it surprised me it happened the way it did..

Now that is done I'm going to get behind the current coach and players TILL THEY PROVE to me they are not what I think they are..

I didn't say you were stupid, I said that the notion that Orton's mistakes are somehow better is stupid.

You bow down to no one, Jr, that's not the point. You like to tell me how and why I have my panties in a wad, I am simply correcting you, something that is becoming routine.

Don't bother with the "Why aren't you a better fan?" bullshit, Jr, you were doing what I am now doing for years.......I'm just better at it.......

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:48 PM

in case you did not notice mikey got fired.. before that humdinger went as OC. with jay as their QB.. so essentially that was already TWO. I suspect his new OC the one that would not allow him to play anything but safety at U of IL will be next, if not lovie also..

Well there you go thinking again..

Except Cutler didn't GET him fired. Shanahan got Shanahan fired. Cutler had nothing to do with it. It isn't the same as Cutler not having a good relationship and demanding a new coach, so that ends the argument there.

As for the relationship between Ron Turner and Jay Cutler, the idea that they have a problem with each other is a load of garbage. They have spent hours upon hours with each other and appear to have a really good relationship. There is absolutely NOTHING funky going on in Chiacago right now. EVERYONE is on the same page.

tumbana

07-05-2009, 09:51 PM

As I said, you know absolutely nothing . . . nada, zip, zilch . . . about Elway's
history, and you have lucidly demonstrated that right here. Please, stop
embarrassing yourself with your claims about Elway to those of us who know
his history quite well. :tsk:

Dude, you do this EVERY TIME. If I am wrong SHOW me how I was wrong. I don't gain anything from you saying things like that.

Cutler has some growing to do before he comes anywhere near what Elway
was at 25. I wouldn't doubt that Elway's son Jack is more mature than Cutler.

-----
I highly doubt that. Elway at 25 wasn't Elway at 35 and you know that. He would not have been too happy with his new head coach praising him and then trying to trade him for a one year wonder shortly after.

Is Elway's son even playing football anymore?

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 10:01 PM

Except Cutler didn't GET him fired. Shanahan got Shanahan fired. Cutler had nothing to do with it. It isn't the same as Cutler not having a good relationship and demanding a new coach, so that ends the argument there.

As for the relationship between Ron Turner and Jay Cutler, the idea that they have a problem with each other is a load of garbage. They have spent hours upon hours with each other and appear to have a really good relationship. There is absolutely NOTHING funky going on in Chiacago right now. EVERYONE is on the same page.

you see and think that jay did not get mike fired but deep down everyone knows it was mikes reliance on O instead of getting a real D and DC that got him fired.. he surrounded jay with almost all the toys he could.

Thinking he could get into the playoffs and thus save his jobs.. but jay failed him, the O failed him, 3 up and 3 to go and the O and D collapsed..

mike promise everyone in DEN to take the broncos to the playoffs.. but mike bet on the wrong horse and jay got him fired.. there is very little doubt about that in any logical mind..

just remember this when lovie gets the pink slip..:D

tumbana

07-05-2009, 10:11 PM

you see and think that jay did not get mike fired but deep down everyone knows it was mikes reliance on O instead of getting a real D and DC that got him fired.. he surrounded jay with almost all the toys he could.
And how is that Jay's fault? All this tells me is you agree that Shanahan got himself fired.

Thinking he could get into the playoffs and thus save his jobs.. but jay failed him, the O failed him, 3 up and 3 to go and the O and D collapsed..

The O AND D collapsed. But JAY failed him? I'm confused. I didn't know Jay gave up 40 ppg as well including 7 TDs in 8 possessions by the Chargers in the final game. Oh well, Jay lost those games. Wasn't the entire team togther. Thus, Jay got him fired!

mike promise everyone in DEN to take the broncos to the playoffs.. but mike bet on the wrong horse and jay got him fired.. there is very little doubt about that in any logical mind..
HOW DID JAY DIRECTLY GET SHANAHAN FIRED.

So was is Shanahan's reliance on O?
His one side play calling?
Him not doing anything to fix the D in the prior offseason?
Or was it Jay all by himself?
You tell ME how any logical mind would say Jay made him lose his job. That seriously makes no sense.

just remember this when lovie gets the pink slip..:D
If Lovie ever gets a pink slip, it's because he didn't do his job, not because a player got him fired. Thankfully, he doesn't ignore defense or special teams and isn't a GM.

topscribe

07-05-2009, 10:11 PM

Dude, you do this EVERY TIME. If I am wrong SHOW me how I was wrong. I don't gain anything from you saying things like that.

Read this post (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=686140&postcount=160) again, especially the part where I said I explained it thoroughly
on the other board. You weren't yet banned there, and you in fact were
active in that thread at the time.

That was probably the third time since joining a Broncos board I have given a
complete account of those events. I don't want to do it anymore.

I highly doubt that. Elway at 25 wasn't Elway at 35 and you know that. He would not have been too happy with his new head coach praising him and then trying to trade him for a one year wonder shortly after.

Is Elway's son even playing football anymore?

What does playing football have to do with maturity?

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether Cutler at 35 will yet be anywhere
near what Elway was at 25. Because, so far, Cutler is running behind . . .

-----

Lonestar

07-05-2009, 10:15 PM

And how is that Jay's fault? All this tells me is you agree that Shanahan got himself fired.

The O AND D collapsed. But JAY failed him? I'm confused. I didn't know Jay gave up 40 ppg as well including 7 TDs in 8 possessions by the Chargers in the final game. Oh well, Jay lost those games. Wasn't the entire team togther. Thus, Jay got him fired!

HOW DID JAY DIRECTLY GET SHANAHAN FIRED.

So was is Shanahan's reliance on O?
His one side play calling?
Him not doing anything to fix the D in the prior offseason?
Or was it Jay all by himself?
You tell ME how any logical mind would say Jay made him lose his job. That seriously makes no sense.

If Lovie ever gets a pink slip, it's because he didn't do his job, not because a player got him fired. Thankfully, he doesn't ignore defense or special teams and isn't a GM.

when a HC thinks he can win it all by doing nothing but relying on his QB to get him their then he is a fool.. mike thought he could win on O alone..

either that or he was just plain stupid because e he did nothing to help the D over the past couple of years..

the logical conclusion is the QB and lack of O got him fired.. or he was stupid..

if your not able to see that then I can't help you at all..

Night I;'m going to bed early tonight..

tumbana

07-05-2009, 10:24 PM

Read this post (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=686140&postcount=160) again, especially the part where I said I explained it thoroughly
on the other board. You weren't yet banned there, and you in fact were
active in that thread at the time.

That was probably the third time since joining a Broncos board I have given a
complete account of those events. I don't want to do it anymore.

That post says nothing except that he "took them" to three superbowls. I let you know he wasn't the only guy doing anything and he had a solid defense with him. Is that all you can say? Regardless, he did not do that well in his first 10 years and did not reach his real peak in his 30's where he went on a 6 year run of really good seasons. What don't I know about Elway? I didn't read the post you are talking about. If I did, I don't remember it and I assume you won't tell me anything that you said in that post you are talking about, so I would rather not get into a pissing match and agree to disagree unless you do provide even a few points. I don't have much else to say about that.

What does playing football have to do with maturity?

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether Cutler at 35 will yet be anywhere
near what Elway was at 25. Because, so far, Cutler is running behind . . .

-----

Elway wasn't all that mature early in his career. That was obvious and I shouldn't have to tell a long time Broncos fan who claims that he knows everything about Elway about it.

I don't recall Elway having any rings and performed pretty poorly in those blowout SB losses. He even got the rep of not being able to "in the big one." I am not saying that is true and I think is a load of BS to pin the responsibility on any one player especially when the other team scores so many points. If you want to talk about career numbers, Cutler is well ahead of him there and could win a SB long before Elway won his first.

I don't even get why we are comparing Cutler to Elway this closely right now, especially since he is no longer a Bronco.

Is that a good thing? :)

tumbana

07-05-2009, 10:27 PM

when a HC thinks he can win it all by doing nothing but relying on his QB to get him their then he is a fool.. mike thought he could win on O alone..

either that or he was just plain stupid because e he did nothing to help the D over the past couple of years..

the logical conclusion is the QB and lack of O got him fired.. or he was stupid..

if your not able to see that then I can't help you at all..

Night I;'m going to bed early tonight..

The QB and the LACK of O got him fired? Wasn't his one sided play calling, losing all those RBs and not using the run game at all, having a HORRIBLE defense and a HORRIBLE special teams? Having GM power and not using it to fix the team's major problems?

THOSE are what got him fired. Not Jay Cutler alone.

You do understand why what you are tying makes no sense right? If you just dislike Jay Cutler, you could just tell me and we can get that out of the way.

topscribe

07-05-2009, 10:51 PM

That post says nothing except that he "took them" to three superbowls. I let you know he wasn't the only guy doing anything and he had a solid defense with him. Is that all you can say? Regardless, he did not do that well in his first 10 years and did not reach his real peak in his 30's where he went on a 6 year run of really good seasons. What don't I know about Elway? I didn't read the post you are talking about. If I did, I don't remember it and I assume you won't tell me anything that you said in that post you are talking about, so I would rather not get into a pissing match and agree to disagree unless you do provide even a few points. I don't have much else to say about that.

Elway wasn't all that mature early in his career. That was obvious and I shouldn't have to tell a long time Broncos fan who claims that he knows everything about Elway about it.

I don't recall Elway having any rings and performed pretty poorly in those blowout SB losses. He even got the rep of not being able to "in the big one." I am not saying that is true and I think is a load of BS to pin the responsibility on any one player especially when the other team scores so many points. If you want to talk about career numbers, Cutler is well ahead of him there and could win a SB long before Elway won his first.

I don't even get why we are comparing Cutler to Elway this closely right now, especially since he is no longer a Bronco.

Is that a good thing? :)

Once again, you are telling me about Elway. How old are you? How long have
you closely followed the Broncos? You need to be asking us about Elway, not
telling us about him.

*sheesh* :tsk:

-----

tumbana

07-05-2009, 10:53 PM

Once again, you are telling me about Elway. How old are you? How long have
you closely followed the Broncos? You need to be asking us about Elway, not
telling us about him.

*sheesh* :tsk:

-----

And there is more of it.

topscribe

07-05-2009, 11:15 PM

And there is more of it.

Yes, there's a term for it.

It has something to do with what comes out of the hinder parts of a bull . . .

-----

NameUsedBefore

07-05-2009, 11:37 PM

Jay Cutler got Shanahan fired?

That's a new one.

Simple Jaded

07-05-2009, 11:53 PM

you see and think that jay did not get mike fired but deep down everyone knows it was mikes reliance on O instead of getting a real D and DC that got him fired.. he surrounded jay with almost all the toys he could.

Thinking he could get into the playoffs and thus save his jobs.. but jay failed him, the O failed him, 3 up and 3 to go and the O and D collapsed..

mike promise everyone in DEN to take the broncos to the playoffs.. but mike bet on the wrong horse and jay got him fired.. there is very little doubt about that in any logical mind..

just remember this when lovie gets the pink slip..:D

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=686147&postcount=36

"I'm done trying with him.. NO matter how hard one tries to get through to some one that hates it just does not sink in.. reasonable posters can be logical.."-- An actually quote from Jrwiz.

Seriously? Please don't give up trying with me, Jr, your hypocrisy is an endless source of amusement for me.......

Timmy!

07-06-2009, 12:59 AM

You two fight like you're married.

Seriously.

One hates Mike. One hates Mckid. This would be a great reality show. Feel free to pitch titles.

Watchthemiddle

07-06-2009, 02:38 AM

tumbana

07-06-2009, 04:16 AM

WOW, I am glad I only read the first page of this thread ....when it was still about Orton...and a little about Cutler.

Anyway...

Cutler not only doesn't have anyone to throw too...i hope he is getting in good shape and working off that double chin because with that offensive line in Chicago compared to the one he HAD in Denver is worlds apart...:laugh:

I am glad we now have a smart decision maker who will actually get to prove how good he can be in the NFL. Weapons and an OFFENSIVE line to protect him and give him time for his reads will be great for Orton.

I wonder who Cutler is going to "stare" down in Chicago the way he always stared down Marshall? :confused:

First of all the Bears do have receivers. Just because they are young and inexperienced doesn't mean they are bad. Experts who have been following the Bears so far this offseason have said it is amazing how good the WRs are looking with Cutler throwing the passes. The cool thing is he hasn't thrown 5 INTs in just one day of OTAs...

Here, since you didn't read past the first page, respond to these facts:

1. Jay Cutler turns the ball over at the exact same rate as Kyle Orton (3% INT percentage and while Orton's was better in 08, it was BARELY better) Keep in mind the Bears' offensive philosophy was to not turn the ball over and they were also much more balanced than the Broncos O.

2. Kyle Orton also stares down receivers. If you don't think he does then you really have never watched him play. Problem is he doesn't get away with it.

3. The Bears WRs last year were 7th in receptions per drop. The Broncos were 21st. Not that Kyle Orton throws to WRs anyway since he craps his pants when one is wide down field and then dumps it off instead. I wonder id he is going to try and throw to that stone hands receiving core.

4. The Bears RBs, TEs, defense, and special teams all blow the Broncos' out of the water. Oh, and so does their QB who actually THROWS THE BALL.

5. In 08 the Broncos had a very mobile QB while the Bear O line had to protect a statue. Then you factor in that the pass rushers the Broncos faced throughout the year were little girls compared to everyone the Bears faced. Then you can ALSO factor in that due to opposing defenses having no respect for KYle Orton and his ability to tear them up through the air, they blitzed quite often. The same couldn't be said about the Broncos.

So you factor in that they are switching QBs, the opposing Ds the Broncos face in 09 will be ridiculously tougher than in 08, and that teams will blitz more often due to a lack of respect for the QB, the Bears getting a mobile QB and getting good improvements on the 11th ranked pass-protecting O-line, and I would bet the Bears give up less sacks than the Broncos.

roomemp

07-06-2009, 07:22 AM

First of all the Bears do have receivers. Just because they are young and inexperienced doesn't mean they are bad. Experts who have been following the Bears so far this offseason have said it is amazing how good the WRs are looking with Cutler throwing the passes. The cool thing is he hasn't thrown 5 INTs in just one day of OTAs...

Here, since you didn't read past the first page, respond to these facts:

1. Jay Cutler turns the ball over at the exact same rate as Kyle Orton (3% INT percentage and while Orton's was better in 08, it was BARELY better) Keep in mind the Bears' offensive philosophy was to not turn the ball over and they were also much more balanced than the Broncos O.

2. Kyle Orton also stares down receivers. If you don't think he does then you really have never watched him play. Problem is he doesn't get away with it.

3. The Bears WRs last year were 7th in receptions per drop. The Broncos were 21st. Not that Kyle Orton throws to WRs anyway since he craps his pants when one is wide down field and then dumps it off instead. I wonder id he is going to try and throw to that stone hands receiving core.

4. The Bears RBs, TEs, defense, and special teams all blow the Broncos' out of the water. Oh, and so does their QB who actually THROWS THE BALL.

5. In 08 the Broncos had a very mobile QB while the Bear O line had to protect a statue. Then you factor in that the pass rushers the Broncos faced throughout the year were little girls compared to everyone the Bears faced. Then you can ALSO factor in that due to opposing defenses having no respect for KYle Orton and his ability to tear them up through the air, they blitzed quite often. The same couldn't be said about the Broncos.

So you factor in that they are switching QBs, the opposing Ds the Broncos face in 09 will be ridiculously tougher than in 08, and that teams will blitz more often due to a lack of respect for the QB, the Bears getting a mobile QB and getting good improvements on the 11th ranked pass-protecting O-line, and I would bet the Bears give up less sacks than the Broncos.

1: Cutler throws INT's at the worst possible time. Game killers.

2: Cutler also stares down receivers AND throws into triple coverage Often.

3: ???? English please

4: What does the Bears special teams, defense and Rb have to do with this conversation.

5: I am too lazing to look up stats but the Broncos probably threw twice as often as the Bears and still only gave up 12 sacks or whatever. Thats thanks to a superior O line not a semi mobile QB. Cutler is going to be running for his life in Chicago. Orton is going to have so much time, he is going to be throwing from a lazy boy.

Ravage!!!

07-06-2009, 10:10 AM

Ravage!!!

07-06-2009, 10:12 AM

I did see that Cutler was refusing to do endorsments and didn't want his picture on big billboards in Chicago, because he would like to win games and get moving in the direction for the team before agreeing to any endorsement deals.

Seems like a pretty mature and classy thing, to me.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 12:24 PM

underrated29

07-06-2009, 12:59 PM

guys the bears have a good Oline. They will have a very good Oline after this year. I dont know why everyone thinks this.... I understand they are a rival team, and that we dont want to build them up. But, if you put your cutler bias aside, and look at the bears oline as a football fan. You can see they will have a pretty darn good line.

I think their line is similiar to ours was last year. We had 3 new pieces and they came together and tore it up. They have the exact same thing. No i do not think it will be as good as our line, but i do think they will be top 10-probably top 6 or 7.

Jay will have some times he has to run for his life, just like he did here, but please stop saying that he will hike the ball and start running every time.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 01:58 PM

i already made my christmas wish list and it includes a broncos vs bears superbowl
so orton can shred the bears secondary and jay can throw the game winning int to champ !!!!!!!!

tumbana

07-06-2009, 02:07 PM

1: Cutler throws INT's at the worst possible time. Game killers.
I've seen him throw touchdowns at the bes possible time. At least in a close game in the 3d quarter he doesn't throw 3 INTs in 7 pass attempts (NFL record) to take the team out of the game.

Oh, and Cutler has a 94 QBR in the 4th quarter.

2: Cutler also stares down receivers AND throws into triple coverage Often.
Already been said and I responding by saying Orton stares down receivers pretty badly himself.

3: ???? English please

Not hard to read

Bears WRs have better hands than Broncos WRs (statistically proven)

Orton doesn't like to throw to WRs (statistically proven)

Orton gets hesitant to throw to open WRs downfield (well-known)

4: What does the Bears special teams, defense and Rb have to do with this conversation.
Because the guy I'm responding to is acting lke Cutler is the only guy on the team worth a damn.

5: I am too lazing to look up stats but the Broncos probably threw twice as often as the Bears and still only gave up 12 sacks or whatever. Thats thanks to a superior O line not a semi mobile QB. Cutler is going to be running for his life in Chicago. Orton is going to have so much time, he is going to be throwing from a lazy boy.

Them throwing a lot actually helps as well. Teams won't want to stack the box or blitz when they know to protect the pass and don't want to get beat by the pass. It also wears down opposing defensive lineman. Then you factor the little girl pass rushers they faced...

And I don't get why super mobile Cutler is going to "run for his life." I see no reason why. Do you have any evidence for it? The 11th ranked pass protecting O line (not bad considering Orton is a statue and they faced tough pass rushers all year) got even better, so I can see the Bears giving up less than 20 sacks.

dogfish

07-06-2009, 02:26 PM

Simple Jaded

07-06-2009, 02:30 PM

actually.. Cutlers QB rating sky's upwards in the fourth quarter. This 'game killer' stuff is completely false.

Plus... if you actually know what you are looking at, how many times does a WR get 'triple' coverage?? Not to mention throwing INTO it 'often.' Again.... false.

Bullshit! Cutler throws into triple coverage at least twice on every single play, and at least four time a play in the 4th quarter.......Kyle Orton, on the other hand, throws Int's to save the lives of innocent puppies.......

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 02:53 PM

why does everyone keep saying that orton is such a smart decision maker?

because he didn't have as many INTs as jay?

we've been over this before. . . the only reason he throws fewer INTs is because he has fewer pass attempts. . . career numbers, jay and kyle have the exact same INT:attempt ratio, one pick per every 33 throws. . . .

this edition of mythbusters was brought to you by dogfish. . . .

:salute:

Wait, so you mean that they are the same?

:couch:

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 03:23 PM

:tsk:
Wait, so you mean that they are the same?

:couch:

yeah they are both good qb's but we got the one that throws fewer picks,wins more games and saves pupies !:D
while jay has a stronger arm and runs puppies over on his way to work !

underrated29

07-06-2009, 03:31 PM

:tsk:

yeah they are both good qb's but we got the one that throws fewer picks,wins more games and saves pupies !:D
while jay has a stronger arm and runs puppies over on his way to work !

WRONG!!!!!!

HE DOES NOT RUN PUPPIES OVER ON HIS WAY TO WORK.

He has his dad do it for him.

( i couldnt resist)

tumbana

07-06-2009, 04:20 PM

:tsk:

yeah they are both good qb's but we got the one that throws fewer picks,wins more games and saves pupies !:D
while jay has a stronger arm and runs puppies over on his way to work !
No, Jay is a good QB, Orton is an average at best QB. Orton throws picks at the same rate as Cutler despite being in a "safer" offense and Orton didn't win those games. The Bear won those games. I don't see you all over Grossman's jock. He has very similar career stats and record. Oh well, nothing gets through to you.

Orton is a future hall of famer lol.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 04:35 PM

Not hard to read

Bears WRs have better hands than Broncos WRs (statistically proven)

Orton doesn't like to throw to WRs (statistically proven)

Orton gets hesitant to throw to open WRs downfield (well-known)

ok enough with the jokes....
the broncos recievers were thrown to twice as much so they are gonna drop more (just your logic on why cutler threw more picks....yes?
orton didnt like throwing to crappy recievers.....
orton was hesitant to throw to crappy recievers downfield....
he will like it much better when its marshall catching them and adding 15-20 yards after catch !
or when royal burns by everyone on the field and he's wide open downtown!
oh yeah orton will be the most improved qb in 09'....count on it !

our coach made matt ( i have'nt started since high school) cassell into one of the most sought after qb's this past offseason,and it only took him a few weeks.....
the bears might be ok with cutler but contrary to what has been posted on here lately,most "EXPERTS" agree cutler is gonna need at least one big fast top flight reciever added to the bears team if he wants to put up #s close to what he had in denver!

tumbana

07-06-2009, 04:45 PM

ok enough with the jokes....
the broncos recievers were thrown to twice as much so they are gonna drop more (just your logic on why cutler threw more picks....yes?
orton didnt like throwing to crappy recievers.....

The Broncos dropped the ball at a much higher RATE. The Bears were 7th in RECEPTIONS PER DROP and the Broncos were 21st. The Bears WRs were getting open and they were catching the ball when thrown to. It wasn't that "Oron didn't like throwing to crappy receivers." That's a cop out. He doesn't like throwing to any receivers, especially beyond 10 yards.

orton was hesitant to throw to crappy recievers downfield....
Absolutely false. Thing is when he did throw the ball downfield, it was WAY off. If anything, he just didn't trust HIMSELF.

he will like it much better when its marshall catching them and adding 15-20 yards after catch !
Hester averaged the same YAC as Marshall. In fact, the Bears were better than the Broncos in YAC last season. Not to mention 50% of Orton's yards were from YAC while 40% of Jay's were from YAC.

And if Marshall is gone it's going to make it even tougher on Orton.

or when royal burns by everyone on the field and he's wide open downtown!
oh yeah orton will be the most improved qb in 09'....count on it !

I spit out my water at this on lol. Especially Hester (actually all the Bears WR for that matter) gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. If Orton isn't going to be able to connect with Hester who kept burning DBs again and again and getting wide open, he's not going to get it to Royal either.

our coach made matt ( i have'nt started since high school) cassell into one of the most sought after qb's this past offseason,and it only took him a few weeks.....

Everyone knows Cassel is a one year wonder. There is a reason why the Cheifs got both Cassel AND Vrabel for a SECOND ROUND pick while Cutler was getting interest by a dozen teams.

the bears might be ok with cutler but contrary to what has been posted on here lately,most "EXPERTS" agree cutler is gonna need at least one big fast top flight reciever added to the bears team if he wants to put up #s close to what he had in denver!
No Cutler doesn't need a big fast top flight receiver. Especially considering Olsen is bigger and faster than Marshall anyway. And he doesn't need one to put up better numbers than in Denver. He will be in a much less predictable offense and better red zone play calling and personnel. He's got everything he needs already and he has stressed it over and over in every press conference and interview the last few weeks. But I guess ESPN guys who haven't been paying attention at all to the Bears and their offseason hold more merit than the guy who is actually throwing the ball.

GEM

07-06-2009, 05:39 PM

tumbana

07-06-2009, 05:42 PM

Cutler is THE MAN, daBears are daish....now will you please go find a Bears board to convince? You keep coming with the same ole ish over and over and over....either come up with some new material or take a hike.

It seems like I keep saying the same thing over and over because I am responding to the same horrible points over and over.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 06:05 PM

It seems like I keep saying the same thing over and over because I am responding to the same horrible points over and over.

well the good news is you have convinced yourself the bears will have the best passing game in the league.
now you just have to get the other 99.9 % of people who know better to agree that you are right !
good luck with that...remember we got a ton of yards (2nd in the league)
but we were 16th in scoring
do some research on why that was....

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 06:10 PM

well the good news is you have convinced yourself the bears will have the best passing game in the league.
now you just have to get the other 99.9 % of people who know better that you are right !
good luck with that...remember we got a ton of yards (2nd in the league)
but we were 16th in scoring
do some research on why that was....

Don't worry, Cutler had nothing to do with that.

WARHORSE

07-06-2009, 06:30 PM

It seems like I keep saying the same thing over and over because I am responding to the same horrible points over and over.

Your problem is what you deem to be horrible.

Look, we dont hold it against you. Youre a Bears fan and the Bears suck.

The Bears are horrible and have been for eons.

This has skewed your view and therefore your opinion.

On the Bears boards, you will make a ton of sense.

Bye.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 06:51 PM

Your problem is what you deem to be horrible.

Look, we dont hold it against you. Youre a Bears fan and the Bears suck.

The Bears are horrible and have been for eons.

This has skewed your view and therefore your opinion.

On the Bears boards, you will make a ton of sense.

Bye.

The Bears have averaged 10 wins the last 4 years and in those 4 years they won back to back division championships and had a SB appearance. The future looks very bright for them while Broncos fans have nothing to hold onto but the "golden years" with Elway when I was in 2nd grade. You can convince yourself the Bears suck all you want but it will be your team fighting to get 5 wins.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 06:52 PM

tumbana

07-06-2009, 06:54 PM

well the good news is you have convinced yourself the bears will have the best passing game in the league.
now you just have to get the other 99.9 % of people who know better to agree that you are right !

Never said that

good luck with that...remember we got a ton of yards (2nd in the league)
but we were 16th in scoring
do some research on why that was....
You were 11th in offensive scoring. And why you were 2nd in yards but 11th in offensive scoring?

1. Worst starting field position in the NFL. More yards to go=more yards to get. Those same yards could also make a difference between a punt and a FG or a FG and a TD not that your FG kicker was any good anyway).
2. Abandoning of the run game and losing a bunch of RBs
3. One of the most predictble offenses in the NFL.
4. HORRIBLE red zone play calling.
5. Defense was letting opposing offenses score at will and were getting scored on pretty often.

Those were why.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 06:58 PM

The Broncos dropped the ball at a much higher RATE. The Bears were 7th in RECEPTIONS PER DROP and the Broncos were 21st. The Bears WRs were getting open and they were catching the ball when thrown to. It wasn't that "Oron didn't like throwing to crappy receivers." That's a cop out. He doesn't like throwing to any receivers, especially beyond 10 yards.

Absolutely false. Thing is when he did throw the ball downfield, it was WAY off. If anything, he just didn't trust HIMSELF.

Hester averaged the same YAC as Marshall. In fact, the Bears were better than the Broncos in YAC last season. Not to mention 50% of Orton's yards were from YAC while 40% of Jay's were from YAC.

And if Marshall is gone it's going to make it even tougher on Orton.

I spit out my water at this on lol. Especially Hester (actually all the Bears WR for that matter) gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. If Orton isn't going to be able to connect with Hester who kept burning DBs again and again and getting wide open, he's not going to get it to Royal either.

Everyone knows Cassel is a one year wonder. There is a reason why the Cheifs got both Cassel AND Vrabel for a SECOND ROUND pick while Cutler was getting interest by a dozen teams.

No Cutler doesn't need a big fast top flight receiver. Especially considering Olsen is bigger and faster than Marshall anyway. And he doesn't need one to put up better numbers than in Denver. He will be in a much less predictable offense and better red zone play calling and personnel. He's got everything he needs already and he has stressed it over and over in every press conference and interview the last few weeks. But I guess ESPN guys who haven't been paying attention at all to the Bears and their offseason hold more merit than the guy who is actually throwing the ball.

What do you expect him to say in press conferences that his WR suck and the OC does not know his ass for his elbow...

glad your thinking positive because your going to need it about the 4th game of the year.. when the WR are dropping balls and running wrong routes he is going to start throwing everyone under the bus.

sulking on the sidelines and refusing to do after game interviews..

topscribe

07-06-2009, 06:59 PM

You were 11th in offensive scoring. And why you were 2nd in yards but 11th in offensive scoring?

1. Worst starting field position in the NFL. More yards to go=more yards to get. Those same yards could also make a difference between a punt and a FG or a FG and a TD.
2. Abandoning of the run game and losing a bunch of RBs
3. One of the most predictble offenses in the NFL.
4. HORRIBLE red zone play calling.
5. Defense was letting opposing offenses score at will and were getting scored on pretty often.

Those were why.

No the Broncos were 16th in scoring, as you can see here (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm).

Other than that, you produced some pretty accurate reasons for the Broncos'
scoring problems, although that isn't the entire picture. Untimely interceptions
and fumbles played a key role . . .

-----

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:07 PM

More excuses. NONE of it was Cutler...lol. He is a golden god.

Go root for the Bears.

If you can show me you aren't a moron and tell me how my points are wrong, I would appreciate that.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:07 PM

No the Broncos were 16th in scoring, as you can see here (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm).

Other than that, you produced some pretty accurate reasons for the Broncos'
scoring problems, although that isn't the entire picture. Untimely interceptions
and fumbles played a key role . . .

-----

That scoring includes defense and special teams. Strictly offensively, they were 11th.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:09 PM

What do you expect him to say in press conferences that his WR suck and the OC does not know his ass for his elbow...

glad your thinking positive because your going to need it about the 4th game of the year.. when the WR are dropping balls and running wrong routes he is going to start throwing everyone under the bus.

sulking on the sidelines and refusing to do after game interviews..

Considering everyone is running the right routes and catching the ball, getting great chemistry with Jay, and re looking overall pretty darn good right now, I think you are full of it. You are saying that based on nothing so I am going to go ahead and laugh at it.

This isn't Denver, sorry.

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 07:15 PM

Never said that

You were 11th in offensive scoring. And why you were 2nd in yards but 11th in offensive scoring?

1. Worst starting field position in the NFL. More yards to go=more yards to get. Those same yards could also make a difference between a punt and a FG or a FG and a TD not that your FG kicker was any good anyway).
2. Abandoning of the run game and losing a bunch of RBs
3. One of the most predictble offenses in the NFL.
4. HORRIBLE red zone play calling.
5. Defense was letting opposing offenses score at will and were getting scored on pretty often.

Those were why.

While we may have been a power house on Defense or ST scoring I do not really think it to be relevant into mincing words..

You either out score your opponent or not.. if you do you win..

Total scoring we were indeed 16th.. with only 17 worse

but good try in spinning..

we had no red zone offense plain and simple mikes offense over the years has been much the same.. most believe it was because we had smaller OLINE types and smallish RB's went eh rubber meets the road you can't score inside the 5 and Jason Elam saved mikes butt for a LONG time..

jay also had a tendency to fumble or throw picks in the red zone.. IIRC 6-7 times total..

so once again I'm glad your so happy with him just as happy as a lot of folks are that he is gonzo..

please refrain from telling Bronco fans that have watched him from day one how great he is.. Because most of us know it is a pipe dream.

ursamajor

07-06-2009, 07:17 PM

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 07:18 PM

Considering everyone is running the right routes and catching the ball, getting great chemistry with Jay, and re looking overall pretty darn good right now, I think you are full of it. You are saying that based on nothing so I am going to go ahead and laugh at it.

This isn't Denver, sorry.

and you do not think there is a differnce in OTA, mini camps Train camp , preseason games and the regular season?

jay excels when not under pressure as do the WR's at least here in DEN. now lets see if he has made that quantum leap in CHI.. I just guessing here but I think not..

ursamajor

07-06-2009, 07:27 PM

http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif@ this whole thread.

No pun inteneded.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 07:27 PM

If you can show me you aren't a moron and tell me how my points are wrong, I would appreciate that.

Frankly, it won't matter. You've convinced yourself that Cutler's actions and play on the field had nothing to do with end results, that it was everybody else's fault, not his. There's no changing your opinion. Cutler is the best young quarterback in the game. He has no flaws.

It's old. It's tired. Go over to a Bears forum and join the circle jerk. But don't be surprised when the same leadership problems that emerged here, emerge there.

Look...he seems like a good guy. I hope he does well. I really do. I own his jersey. Thankfully, the Bears are in the NFC. If they reach the playoffs, and the Broncos don't, I might root for him. I'm not a Bears fan, and I won't be, but...

He has to grow up. He wasn't willing to grow up and work with our team management here, and now he's sent to an organization with a history of not catering much to players at all, especially with contracts. He's a bad decision maker on the field, and in some regards off the field, as well.

I cannot bring myself to say Cutler wasn't part of the problem, part of the nepotistic Shanahan culture that surrounded the Broncos. Did he need to go? Probably not, but when he didn't want to fit in with the new direction, he had to go. It sucks. I don't like it, but I understand it. I can understand why there were trade talks. I don't think McDaniels initiated them. I also understand that he acted like a prima donna and pushed his way out of town. His way or the highway. He got the highway.

Orton is a capable quarterback. He will do OK in this system. Will we be playoff bound this year? Probably not, let's be realistic. But do we have a better direction? Yes.

In a long ways around it, you're points are wrong because Cutler contributed to that culture. The culture that defense didn't matter. That he could do no wrong, because he was "the man."

Are you wrong? No. But you leave a lot out of it, and most of it isn't about stats. You make excuses. A good quarterback, a solid leader, doesn't go on Jim Rome's show on national TV during the Super Bowl week and answer the question "what do the Broncos need to work on for next year?" with "On offense?" You don't pout when you lose. You don't throw the defense under the bus in press conferences and interviews. That is not a good leader.

And ultimately, the culture has led to second-half collapses for 10 years, excluding the 2005 season. This year's second-half collapse was the worst EVER. EVER. Can you swallow that? Cutler seemed to go on about his own smug-way, thinking it wasn't his problem. It was his problem. He led the collapse, because that's what quarterbacks do. They lead into the great, and they also lead to the bad. It comes with the territory. So, again, are you wrong that those were contributing factors? Hell no. You're absolutely right. But the interceptions, bad decisions, lack of leadership and all-around aloofness and arrogance were a big part of the problem as well.

You know...big picture.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:29 PM

While we may have been a power house on Defense or ST scoring I do not really think it to be relevant into mincing words..

You either out score your opponent or not.. if you do you win..

Total scoring we were indeed 16th.. with only 17 worse

but good try in spinning..
How does the offense have an effect on making makable field goals, forcing turnovers and taking them to the house, returning TDs, blocking punts for TDs, or basically anything outside of THE OFFENSE? Please, give me a real reasoning instead of more words that don't make sense.

we had no red zone offense plain and simple mikes offense over the years has been much the same.. most believe it was because we had smaller OLINE types and smallish RB's went eh rubber meets the road you can't score inside the 5 and Jason Elam saved mikes butt for a LONG time..
No, Shanahan's offense has not been the same. From look at stats, watching games, and eve reading numerous posts from Broncos fans from Mania, the 08 offense was the most unbalanced offense in years for the Broncos and probably the most unbalanced under Shanahan. And you are right when you say once you get close you need power, and the Broncos lacked that last season especially with some of their RBs going down. That's why Hillis is going to be a bigger part of the offense and they got Lamont Jordan for short yardage.

jay also had a tendency to fumble or throw picks in the red zone.. IIRC 6-7 times total..

Once again, it's easy to defense when you know what's coming. the Broncos passes as much in the red zone as they did out of it and the closer you get to the goal line, the tougher it is to pass. Less space for the defense to cover. That's where running the ball comes in along with using different formations, 2 TE sets, PA, etc. There was a game log I saw against the Chargers. The Broncos literally had 8-10 straight plays inside the red zone from shotgun. That's horrible plain and simple. Then you factor in wanting to go for 7 instead of settling for a FG because either you know those 3 won't come easy or you are down by multiple possessions (mentality os the play calling). It's all about the offensive philosophy and and mentality of the play calling ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

so once again I'm glad your so happy with him just as happy as a lot of folks are that he is gonzo..
riiiiight... I feel the same about Orton, believe me, I really do.

please refrain from telling Bronco fans that have watched him from day one how great he is.. Because most of us know it is a pipe dream.
I don't have to go by bitter Broncos fans. Even topscribe said he has the possibility of being great. I would rather listen to all the NFL personnel, GMs, experts and whatnot who are true followers of the sport before I listen to emotionally attached fans. After all, a dozen teams wanted him bad enough to offer 2 first round picks and then some.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 07:33 PM

The Bears have averaged 10 wins the last 4 years and in those 4 years they won back to back division championships and had a SB appearance. The future looks very bright for them while Broncos fans have nothing to hold onto but the "golden years" with Elway when I was in 2nd grade. You can convince yourself the Bears suck all you want but it will be your team fighting to get 5 wins.

Now that we know your 18 years old that explains it..

if you look back at the last 15 years Da Bears have averaged 7.5 wins a year.. so the perception of 95% of the bronco fans is indeed pathetic..

I realize that you are proud of your team and most likely will see an up tick in wins in the future.. but I do not see jay taking anyone to the super bowl and certainly not winning it until he matures between the ears.

I called him a coach killer the other day and I'll guess he will get another one in CHI before he moves on..

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 07:35 PM

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 07:40 PM

How does the offense have an effect on making makable field goals, forcing turnovers and taking them to the house, returning TDs, blocking punts for TDs, or basically anything outside of THE OFFENSE? Please, give me a real reasoning instead of more words that don't make sense.

No, Shanahan's offense has not been the same. From look at stats, watching games, and eve reading numerous posts from Broncos fans from Mania, the 08 offense was the most unbalanced offense in years for the Broncos and probably the most unbalanced under Shanahan. And you are right when you say once you get close you need power, and the Broncos lacked that last season especially with some of their RBs going down. That's why Hillis is going to be a bigger part of the offense and they got Lamont Jordan for short yardage.

Once again, it's easy to defense when you know what's coming. the Broncos passes as much in the red zone as they did out of it and the closer you get to the goal line, the tougher it is to pass. Less space for the defense to cover. That's where running the ball comes in along with using different formations, 2 TE sets, PA, etc. There was a game log I saw against the Chargers. The Broncos literally had 8-10 straight plays inside the red zone from shotgun. That's horrible plain and simple. Then you factor in wanting to go for 7 instead of settling for a FG because either you know those 3 won't come easy or you are down by multiple possessions (mentality os the play calling). It's all about the offensive philosophy and and mentality of the play calling ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

riiiiight... I feel the same about Orton, believe me, I really do.

I don't have to go by bitter Broncos fans. Even topscribe said he has the possibility of being great. I would rather listen to all the NFL personnel, GMs, experts and whatnot who are true followers of the sport before I listen to emotionally attached fans. After all, a dozen teams wanted him bad enough to offer 2 first round picks and then some.

FWIW I am not a bitter bronco fan whats ever been a faithful fan since before you were twinkle in your grandfathers eye..

I'm happy as a lark because we unloaded the potential Jeff George to Y'all.. while he has a ton of UPSIDE.. HE showed ZERO improvement between the ears while in DEN..

Maybe he will mature and maybe he will be another Jeff George a QB with tn of potential but never "gets it"..

Now it is time to say your prayers and go to bed.. Past your bed time..

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 07:47 PM

How does the offense have an effect on making makable field goals, forcing turnovers and taking them to the house, returning TDs, blocking punts for TDs, or basically anything outside of THE OFFENSE? Please, give me a real reasoning instead of more words that don't make sense.
ok the offense has nothing to do with getting in field goal range......?
and you said i dont know
jack about football? wow
and we are about the worst team in returns in the league remember...? how many times did we "take it to the house?"
No, Shanahan's offense has not been the same. From look at stats, watching games, and eve reading numerous posts from Broncos fans from Mania, the 08 offense was the most unbalanced offense in years for the Broncos and probably the most unbalanced under Shanahan. And you are right when you say once you get close you need power, and the Broncos lacked that last season especially with some of their RBs going down. That's why Hillis is going to be a bigger part of the offense and they got Lamont Jordan for short yardage.
we

Once again, it's easy to defense when you know what's coming. the Broncos passes as much in the red zone as they did out of it and the closer you get to the goal line, the tougher it is to pass. Less space for the defense to cover. That's where running the ball comes in along with using different formations, 2 TE sets, PA, etc. There was a game log I saw against the Chargers. The Broncos literally had 8-10 straight plays inside the red zone from shotgun. That's horrible plain and simple. Then you factor in wanting to go for 7 instead of settling for a FG because either you know those 3 won't come easy or you are down by multiple possessions (mentality os the play calling). It's all about the offensive philosophy and and mentality of the play calling ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

riiiiight... I feel the same about Orton, believe me, I really do.

I don't have to go by bitter Broncos fans. Even topscribe said he has the possibility of being great. I would rather listen to all the NFL personnel, GMs, experts and whatnot who are true followers of the sport before I listen to emotionally attached fans. After all, a dozen teams wanted him bad enough to offer 2 first round picks and then some.

oh no not dozens,in fact you guys were thje only ones to offer those picks and a qb mcd thought was going to be better in his system than cutler
i believe he might know a bit more than you do,since he gets paid millions to do it and you make 0

also we all know "there is a POSSIBILITY cutler can be great" he just hasnt done anything GREAT yet !
considering orton has'nt started as many games as cutler...i guess it would be fair to say "orton has a chance to be great also.....yes?

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:48 PM

Frankly, it won't matter. You've convinced yourself that Cutler's actions and play on the field had nothing to do with end results, that it was everybody else's fault, not his. There's no changing your opinion. Cutler is the best young quarterback in the game. He has no flaws.

Never said that, but the things I mentioned played a HUGE role as to what I was explaining. Of course he has flaws. All QBs do, especially young ones, but I see WAY too much blame being put on him when there are other things that should be looked at more.

It's old. It's tired. Go over to a Bears forum and join the circle jerk. But don't be surprised when the same leadership problems that emerged here, emerge there.

He doesn't have leadership problems. You can red up on everything about him even as a Bronco up until now especially with the Bears. He has the trust of all his teammates, they are all praising him like no other QB has before and are all buying into the 09 team being championship bound after all the great changes. If you don't care about that, then I don;t care what you have to say about his "leadership problems."

Look...he seems like a good guy. I hope he does well. I really do. I own his jersey. Thankfully, the Bears are in the NFC. If they reach the playoffs, and the Broncos don't, I might root for him. I'm not a Bears fan, and I won't be, but...

He has to grow up. He wasn't willing to grow up and work with our team management here, and now he's sent to an organization with a history of not catering much to players at all, especially with contracts. He's a bad decision maker on the field, and in some regards off the field, as well.
He had one main problem, it was that he felt that he had something with his new coach who publicly praised him, called him "his guy," and then soon after tried trading him for a one year wonder who he liked more. He lost the trust of his head coach and felt he had to go. He make poor decisions on the field despite being top 10 in the NFL in INT% despite being the turnover machine people make him out to be.

What off field decisions? Is it illegal for a guy to get a drink? He isn't some party animal who gets shit-faced every night. If you think he's bad, look up your new QB. I got one more thing...

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=304796

I cannot bring myself to say Cutler wasn't part of the problem, part of the nepotistic Shanahan culture that surrounded the Broncos. Did he need to go? Probably not, but when he didn't want to fit in with the new direction, he had to go. It sucks. I don't like it, but I understand it. I can understand why there were trade talks. I don't think McDaniels initiated them. I also understand that he acted like a prima donna and pushed his way out of town. His way or the highway. He got the highway.
The problem wasn't that he didn't want to go in McDaniels' direction. They spoke highly of one another publicly before the situation came up. Things just went sour. Hey, I don't mind...

Orton is a capable quarterback. He will do OK in this system. Will we be playoff bound this year? Probably not, let's be realistic. But do we have a better direction? Yes.

I think the Broncos would have been in an even better direction had Cutler stayed. IMO they would have been playoff bound. Better direction in team attitude, I agree. However, McDaniels hopefully learned from the Cutler situation. It was his first major situation as a head coach.

In a long ways around it, you're points are wrong because Cutler contributed to that culture. The culture that defense didn't matter. That he could do no wrong, because he was "the man."
There is no way around it. Cutler contributed to that "culture" because he happened to play in it. Doesn't mean he approved of it or wanted it that way. That's jumping to conclusions. He has spoken lot of being on a more complete team since being traded. If he truly cared about being on a strictly offensive team, he wouldn't be so happy in Chicago.

Are you wrong? No. But you leave a lot out of it, and most of it isn't about stats. You make excuses. A good quarterback, a solid leader, doesn't go on Jim Rome's show on national TV during the Super Bowl week and answer the question "what do the Broncos need to work on for next year?" with "On offense?" You don't pout when you lose. You don't throw the defense under the bus in press conferences and interviews. That is not a good leader.

Lots of QBs will call out other teammates or parts of the team. All of the best ever do it. Peyton Manning did and does it quite often. It doesn't make him a bad person. It shows that he cares.

And ultimately, the culture has led to second-half collapses for 10 years, excluding the 2005 season. This year's second-half collapse was the worst EVER. EVER. Can you swallow that? Cutler seemed to go on about his own smug-way, thinking it wasn't his problem. It was his problem. He led the collapse, because that's what quarterbacks do. They lead into the great, and they also lead to the bad. It comes with the territory. So, again, are you wrong that those were contributing factors? Hell no. You're absolutely right. But the interceptions, bad decisions, lack of leadership and all-around aloofness and arrogance were a big part of the problem as well.

You know...big picture.

He lead the collapse? See, this is where I have a problem with the posters on here. They rant and rave about how this is a TEAM sport, how it's all about the TEAM, how this new direction is about the TEAM. Then I see all this trash talking of Cutler and pretty much putting all the blame on him. Didn't the defense give up 40 PPG the last 3 games? Didn't they give up 7 TD in 8 possessions against the Chargers? Didn't the Broncos have HORRIBLE special teams? HORRIBLE balance on offense? Is Cutler excused from everything? Of course not. But to see people say again and again that CUTLER choked, CUTLER is a loser, CUTLER is why they have gone 15-17 the last two year, I don't understand where they are coming from. It makes no sense to me.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 07:51 PM

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:53 PM

oh no not dozens,in fact you guys were thje only ones to offer those picks and a qb mcd thought was going to be better in his system than cutler
i believe he might know a bit more than you do,since he gets paid millions to do it and you make 0

The Bears were the only team????? There were two teams that were very close that everyone is aware of who were about to get Cutler. They were the only teams everyone knew of that would offer an NFL ready QB that they could use for at least this season. That DOESN'T mean no other teams were giving up multiple first round picks, NFL ready players, etc. There were a dozen teams who were seriously interested, bottom line.

ok the offense has nothing to do with getting in field goal range......?
and you said i dont know
jack about football? wow
and we are about the worst team in returns in the league remember...? how many times did we "take it to the house?"

The offense does, but when you have to go farther than any team in the NFL to get there, it doesn't get any easier.

It doesn't matter how many times you take it to the house. It includes FGs and any other non-offensive scoring. Do the math, the Broncos were 11th in the NFL in OFFENSIVE scoring not OVERALL scoring.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:55 PM

Like I said, you've convinced yourself that Cutler wasn't part of the problem. That he's the saint. That he didn't contribute to the problem, he just lived with the problem. None of what I said was "trash-talking" Cutler, but you didn't read any of that. You just read, "you hate Cutler, you hate Cutler." It shows you have little objectivity in the subject and aren't willing to debate it intelligently.

And yes, as the QUARTERBACK of a football team you lead whatever happens, and he lead the worst regular season collapse in NFL history.

I am not willing to debate intelligently? I'm the one bringin up COMPLETELY legit points and statistics. Your last sentence show that YOU have no objectivity. It's a great copout and I will love to see the excuse Broncos fans will have in 09 when they can't blame Cutler. I already said Cutler wasn't excused from responsibility or blame, but that doesn't mean it's ALL on him.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:56 PM

Now that we know your 18 years old that explains it..

if you look back at the last 15 years Da Bears have averaged 7.5 wins a year.. so the perception of 95% of the bronco fans is indeed pathetic..

I realize that you are proud of your team and most likely will see an up tick in wins in the future.. but I do not see jay taking anyone to the super bowl and certainly not winning it until he matures between the ears.

I called him a coach killer the other day and I'll guess he will get another one in CHI before he moves on..

I don't care about over the last 10 years. Since Lovie Smith has been head coach and changed the team, this team has averaged 10 wins a season.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 07:58 PM

FWIW I am not a bitter bronco fan whats ever been a faithful fan since before you were twinkle in your grandfathers eye..

I'm happy as a lark because we unloaded the potential Jeff George to Y'all.. while he has a ton of UPSIDE.. HE showed ZERO improvement between the ears while in DEN..

Maybe he will mature and maybe he will be another Jeff George a QB with tn of potential but never "gets it"..

Now it is time to say your prayers and go to bed.. Past your bed time..

Even if Cutler shows "zero improvement" and continues his career 87-88 QBR, he will be significantly better than any other QB the Bears have had in a while, and that includes golden boy Kyle Orton. He and Jeff Geogr are completely different PEOPLE. Cutler is a gym rat and WANTS to win and WANTS to improve. Period end of story. Sorry pal. You lost your best chance at getting the next Elway.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 07:58 PM

I am not willing to debate intelligently? I'm the one bringin up COMPLETELY legit points and statistics. Your last sentence show that YOU have no objectivity. It's a great copout and I will love to see the excuse Broncos fans will have in 09 when they can't blame Cutler. I already said Cutler wasn't excused from responsibility or blame, but that doesn't mean it's ALL on him.

No, your arguments are not very intelligent, nor do they really delve into the actual problem.

Especially when you actually have the stones to say this tripe:

Cutler contributed to that "culture" because he happened to play in it.

Maybe you are a Bears fan...you won't clarify that point, but I'm guessing you are. But the above statement means you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Thus the debate is worthless, and unintelligent.

To think that Cutler wasn't happy with the culture that Shanahan created is just purely wrong.

T.K.O.

07-06-2009, 08:02 PM

I am not willing to debate intelligently? I'm the one bringin up COMPLETELY legit points and statistics. Your last sentence show that YOU have no objectivity. It's a great copout and I will love to see the excuse Broncos fans will have in 09 when they can't blame Cutler. I already said Cutler wasn't excused from responsibility or blame, but that doesn't mean it's ALL on him.

but your "facts" and "stats" seem to say none of it was his fault....when you have watched all the broncos games the last 2 1/2 years as we have you would know some of it was his fault
and almost every fan i know including myself is very aware that most of the fault for our losse lies squarly on the D....but it is a fact that cutler choked when we needed him most !
then tried to get big $$$$ and it backfired because our new coach knows he is a risk taking gunslinger who is'nt known for using his head when it counts !

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:03 PM

No, your arguments are not very intelligent, nor do they really delve into the actual problem.

Especially when you actually have the stones to say this tripe:

Maybe you are a Bears fan...you won't clarify that point, but I'm guessing you are. But the above statement means you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Thus the debate is worthless, and unintelligent.

To think that Cutler wasn't happy with the culture that Shanahan created is just purely wrong.

Yes Cutler was happy in it, because he had to help his offense put up 30 to have a chance? I would like you to show me proof where Cutler clearly says he like being on a team that is all passing offense and nothing else. I can provide things to you from interviews since being a Bear that he loves being on a team where it's nots so reliant on one phase of the game.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Yes Cutler was happy in it, because he had to help his offense put up 30 to have a chance? I would like you to show me proof where Cutler clearly says he like being on a team that is all passing offense and nothing else. I can provide things to you from interviews since being a Bear that he loves being on a team where it's nots so reliant on one phase of the game.

Whatever. I'm done. You clearly are set in your ways and really have little, to no, insight or understanding of what happened in Denver.

Like I said, have fun with that circle-jerk in Chicago.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:05 PM

but your "facts" and "stats" seem to say none of it was his fault....when you have watched all the broncos games the last 2 1/2 years as we have you would know some of it was his fault
and almost every fan i know including myself is very aware that most of the fault for our losse lies squarly on the D....but it is a fact that cutler choked when we needed him most !
then tried to get big $$$$ and it backfired because our new coach knows he is a risk taking gunslinger who is'nt known for using his head when it counts !

He didn't get traded because he wanted more money. If you were really a Broncos fan you would know that. Cutler choked when you needed him most? Of course he could have played better late in the year, but that doesn't mean all the blame's on him. He carried the Broncos for numerous games in 08.

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 08:05 PM

but your "facts" and "stats" seem to say none of it was his fault....when you have watched all the broncos games the last 2 1/2 years as we have you would know some of it was his fault
and almost every fan i know including myself is very aware that most of the fault for our losse lies squarly on the D....but it is a fact that cutler choked when we needed him most !
then tried to get big $$$$ and it backfired because our new coach knows he is a risk taking gunslinger who is'nt known for using his head when it counts !3

good points:salute:

but you will never get this know it all, to get it.. time to use the IGGY button if you can..

At at least with Ursa major you can have an intelligent conversation.. He is mature enough to get it..

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:06 PM

Whatever. I'm done. You clearly are set in your ways and really have little, to no, insight or understanding of what happened in Denver.

Like I said, have fun with that circle-jerk in Chicago.

I will. Have fun with Kyle Pro Bowl Bound Orton.

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 08:07 PM

3

good points:salute:

but you will never get this know it all, to get it.. time to use the IGGY button if you can..

At at least with Ursa major you can have an intelligent conversation.. He is mature enough to get it..

Personally, I don't understand why this moron is here. What's the point? To prove to yourself that your team made the right decision? Is that why you're here? Seriously, what a joke.

Nothing like a troll.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:11 PM

Personally, I don't understand why this moron is here. What's the point? To prove to yourself that your team made the right decision? Is that why you're here? Seriously, what a joke.

Nothing like a troll.

Thanks for showing me you can't refute my points.

pwnage as usual.

/thread

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 08:16 PM

Personally, I don't understand why this guy is here. What's the point? To prove to yourself that your team made the right decision? Is that why you're here? Seriously, what a joke.

Nothing like a troll.

YEP a bear fan that will get it after lovie gets fired for putting up with cutler and his antics for a couple of years.. with hope that he will mature into another Duke..

I made a comment back after jay was drafted that because of the long shadow John cast in DEN he would rue the day he was drafted in to DEN....

Kind a surprised me he would bail this fast.. but then I think he got the taste of just how big of Shoes john had and knew he would never fill them..

Place him on IGGY and save your key board from going bad..

MOtorboat

07-06-2009, 08:16 PM

YEP a bear fan that will get it after lovie gets fired for putting up with cutler and his antics for a couple of years.. with hope that he will mature into another Duke..

I made a comment back after jay was drafted that because of the long shadow John cast in DEN he would rue the day he was drafted in to DEN....

Kind a surprised me he would bail this fast.. but then I think he got the taste of just how big of Shoes john had and knew he would never fill them..

Place him on IGGY and save your key board from going bad..

Ban him for being a troll and save ALL of us.

topscribe

07-06-2009, 08:23 PM

Thanks for showing me you can't refute my points.

pwnage as usual.

/thread

The Broncos Talk forum is for discussion.

If you're going to claim "pwnage" (I'm trying to keep a straight face), then you need to go to the Smack forum.

-----

ursamajor

07-06-2009, 08:24 PM

3

good points:salute:

but you will never get this know it all, to get it.. time to use the IGGY button if you can..

At at least with Ursa major you can have an intelligent conversation.. He is mature enough to get it..

This is an argument that has been hashed and rehashed dozens of times over on Broncomania. I'm over it. Besides, in the end all we are doing is bashing or praising players that have no idea we exist, and don't care about our opinions. Both teams will be looking at a different product this season, and both teams fans have different things they are excited to see/find out about.

When it comes to the argument at hand, neither side wants to budge, and the point is moot, as they will in most likelihood only see one other in an exhibition game. I doubt that their is as much bad blood now between Cutler and Mc Daniels, or between the Bears and the Broncos, as there is between the fans.

I also came to the realization that the Bears as a Franchise have the most wins of any NFL team, 9 titles, most players in the HOF, are the Founding Franchise, and have one of the richest histories of any professional sports teams. They don't need me to defend them.

horsepig

07-06-2009, 08:25 PM

Anyone pay any attention to Jay's body language?

The guy thinks this this NFL stuff is just a friggen snap! Nothing to it! "I've got a stronger arm than Elway".

That attitude aint gonna cut it over a career.

LoyalSoldier

07-06-2009, 08:26 PM

If Orton is a downgrade at QB, how is that a steal? Last time I checked it isn't much of a steal if you only lost $1000 instead of $20000

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:27 PM

horsepig

07-06-2009, 08:28 PM

horsepig

07-06-2009, 08:29 PM

You're right. Why does a QB need to be confident?

Or WAY over confident.

tumbana

07-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Or WAY over confident.

No such thing.

Lonestar

07-06-2009, 08:33 PM

This is an argument that has been hashed and rehashed dozens of times over on Broncomania. I'm over it. Besides, in the end all we are doing is bashing or praising players that have no idea we exist, and don't care about our opinions. Both teams will be looking at a different product this season, and both teams fans have different things they are excited to see/find out about.

When it comes to the argument at hand, neither side wants to budge, and the point is moot, as they will in most likelihood only see one other in an exhibition game. I doubt that their is as much bad blood now between Cutler and Mc Daniels, or between the Bears and the Broncos, as there is between the fans.

I also came to the realization that the Bears as a Franchise have the most wins of any NFL team, 9 titles, most players in the HOF, are the Founding Franchise, and have one of the richest histories of any professional sports teams. They don't need me to defend them.

yes with George as the Man you have a rich history.. but after Ditkas era Y'all fell on hard times and that is what most forum members remember.. most of our members are Johnny come latelys as as compared to some of us.. so recent history is what most recall..

and since Pat bought the team so does DEN with 7 IIRC super bowl appearances in 25 years.. with lots of playoff game also..

as a founding team in the AFL until 1977 we really sucked for most of those years and Bronco fans because fanatics after that.. I had Season tickets from 1960 day on till I moved out of state in 1979 and have followed them since from afar..

Glad to have YOU as member here please fell free to post anytime..