I can't stand how much players strike out!

[sneakers]

I was reading this peice on ESPN : http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4290105

talking about how much players strike out now a days....and it is really frustrating.

The guy that comes to mind is Brewers CF Mike Cameron, the jackass always seems to strike out....btw he has 70 strikeouts already.

I am sure if he cut down on his strikeouts by 50% to 35, and put the ball into play throught dumb luck he would get 5-15 additional hits raising his batting average 10-20 points (right now he is hitting .243).

That's all I have.

[tripleoption]

I'd say Dave Magadan got it right in the article when he said more guys are simply swinging for the fences every time now. I think part of it may be wanting to hit the big home run and get on Sportscenter. When you hit a bunch of home runs you can also become very well known.

[BroncoAV06]

Batters eye is a skill that alot of players don't work on alot it seems but at the same time you have to figure that going 3-10 is really good. Baseball is the only sport you fail in more then you do well in and still are considered good.

HR swing is definitly apart of it, Howard, Davis, Reynolds, big power=big swings=missies

[Medford Bronco]

I was reading this peice on ESPN : http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4290105

talking about how much players strike out now a days....and it is really frustrating.

The guy that comes to mind is Brewers CF Mike Cameron, the jackass always seems to strike out....btw he has 70 strikeouts already.

I am sure if he cut down on his strikeouts by 50% to 35, and put the ball into play throught dumb luck he would get 5-15 additional hits raising his batting average 10-20 points (right now he is hitting .243).

That's all I have.

How about former Brewer who set the all time strikeout leader
Jose Hernandez :lol: Jose Hernandez the K Machine (http://espn.go.com/magazine/kurkjian_20020927.html)

and Hernandez Wiki Bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Hern%C3%A1ndez_(baseball))

personally I like him with the Dodgers in 2004

cant be any worst than Mark Bellhorn the kind of taking strikes
to try to walk. I hated that guy with the Sox in 04. Most aggravating player to watch hit ever. Mr OPB crap (puke)

[CoachChaz]

Also keep in mind that while pitching is very dilluted nowadays, there are guys out there that throw some crazy junk. Try hitting a 12-6 curveball that starts at your head and bounces in the dirt. Or maybe a splitter that comes in at 80+ and literally falls off the table. Eventually, the better hitters figure this all out, but I'd like to see guys from 10, 20, 30 years ago try to keep up with some of the stuff todays batters are facing.

[In-com-plete]

I remember back in '08 Mo Vaughn had like 145 K's. But he hit .335 that year and finished second to Paul O'Neil or Bernie Williams for the batting title.

He had a .435 or .440 BABIP that year. If he just struck out 5 less times, the law of averages says he would have gotten 2 more hits. Which would have won him the batting title.

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My theory to all this . . . . Starters are "made" to go 6 innings (5 if you're the 5th starter) now. Not the 7 to 9 of yesteryear. And you got a lefty specialist, 7th inning guy, set-up man, & closer on every team now. So starters are able to go 90% instead of that 80% they used to back in the day. Because they know they don't have to throw 100+ pitches or go 8 innings.

[Buff]

I remember back in '08 Mo Vaughn had like 145 K's. But he hit .335 that year and finished second to Paul O'Neil or Bernie Williams for the batting title.

He had a .435 or .440 BABIP that year. If he just struck out 5 less times, the law of averages says he would have gotten 2 more hits. Which would have won him the batting title.

----------------------------------------

My theory to all this . . . . Starters are "made" to go 6 innings (5 if you're the 5th starter) now. Not the 7 to 9 of yesteryear. And you got a lefty specialist, 7th inning guy, set-up man, & closer on every team now. So starters are able to go 90% instead of that 80% they used to back in the day. Because they know they don't have to throw 100+ pitches or go 8 innings.

I think it can all be boiled down to "chicks dig the long ball."

[G_Money]

I was reading this peice on ESPN : http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4290105

talking about how much players strike out now a days....and it is really frustrating.

The guy that comes to mind is Brewers CF Mike Cameron, the jackass always seems to strike out....btw he has 70 strikeouts already.

I am sure if he cut down on his strikeouts by 50% to 35, and put the ball into play throught dumb luck he would get 5-15 additional hits raising his batting average 10-20 points (right now he is hitting .243).

That's all I have.

Mike Cameron ranks 7th in VORP in the bigs at the CF position.

The BA's ahead of him:

.322
.336
.305
.308
.304
.299
.264 <------- Cameron
.295
.283

How does he keep his value as high as those guys with such a lower BA? Cammy has an ISO (slugging minus BA) of .205. When he hits a ball he crushes it. He has an OBP 105 points higher than his BA - also good for 7th in the bigs for his position, even though his BA is TWENTY SECOND.

How is that good? OBP means more to scoring - and therefore winning - than BA does. Slugging also means more to winning. The best hitters, like Pujols, can get all 3. But if you WANTED to sacrifice one, the one you should sacrifice is BA.

Mike Cameron is striking out a ton. It also doesn't matter. He always has, just like he's always played a quality CF. If you view a hitter's worth by his BA, you might as well view a pitcher's worth by his win total. The Cy Young voters do, and how wrong could they be? *rolls eyes at voters*

Seriously, Cameron is having his 2nd or 3rd best year at the plate, potentially of his career, and you want him to just somehow magically cut his Ks in half so that you're happier about his plate performance? :confused: His OPS+ is over 120 - fabulous for a glove position, which CF is, and which Cameron plays exceedingly well.

Cameron makes the most out of his swing that he can, and the way he performs at the plate is better for his team than if he was hanging a pretty .300 average in the front and dropping slugging and OBP off the back end. Mike's .260/.370/.470 line is great. I'm sorry his Ks aren't aesthetically pleasing, but would grounding into a DP all the time make you feel better?

A strikeout is one out. Just one. Which makes it far more survivable than GIDPs and no worse than a pop out.

I worry more about what hitters do with their other outcomes, and in those cases Cammy is fine.

~G

[Medford Bronco]

Mike Cameron ranks 7th in VORP in the bigs at the CF position.

The BA's ahead of him:

.322
.336
.305
.308
.304
.299
.264 <------- Cameron
.295
.283

How does he keep his value as high as those guys with such a lower BA? Cammy has an ISO (slugging minus BA) of .205. When he hits a ball he crushes it. He has an OBP 105 points higher than his BA - also good for 7th in the bigs for his position, even though his BA is TWENTY SECOND.

How is that good? OBP means more to scoring - and therefore winning - than BA does. Slugging also means more to winning. The best hitters, like Pujols, can get all 3. But if you WANTED to sacrifice one, the one you should sacrifice is BA.

Mike Cameron is striking out a ton. It also doesn't matter. He always has, just like he's always played a quality CF. If you view a hitter's worth by his BA, you might as well view a pitcher's worth by his win total. The Cy Young voters do, and how wrong could they be? *rolls eyes at voters*

Seriously, Cameron is having his 2nd or 3rd best year at the plate, potentially of his career, and you want him to just somehow magically cut his Ks in half so that you're happier about his plate performance? :confused: His OPS+ is over 120 - fabulous for a glove position, which CF is, and which Cameron plays exceedingly well.

Cameron makes the most out of his swing that he can, and the way he performs at the plate is better for his team than if he was hanging a pretty .300 average in the front and dropping slugging and OBP off the back end. Mike's .260/.370/.470 line is great. I'm sorry his Ks aren't aesthetically pleasing, but would grounding into a DP all the time make you feel better?

A strikeout is one out. Just one. Which makes it far more survivable than GIDPs and no worse than a pop out.

I worry more about what hitters do with their other outcomes, and in those cases Cammy is fine.

~G

G, I did not know that you were a baseball guru as well. :salute:

You should write seriously and I am not being a wiseguy. I am being very genuine. Your talent is magnificent really. :cool:

[CoachChaz]

Nowadays scouts and evaluators look at .OPS more than they do anything else. By that theory, it really doesnt matter how often you strike out. Take Adam Dunn. He strikes out almost 200 times every year and rarely hits for an average over .250...yet his OBP is consistently hovering .400. So, based on his power potential AND plate discipline, he gets walked alot. That also leads to his higher SLG % and gives him a great .OPS

He also doesnt hit alot of ground balls, so he stays out of the DP. The most he's ever hit into in his career was 12. And he makes the pitcher work.

This isnt meant to be a promotion for Adam Dunn, but just showing how big hitters that strike out alot can still have significant offensive value that outweighs the guys that always put the ball in play.

Another player to look at is Ryan Howard. Won the MVP in 2006 with 181 K's. Still had an OBP of .425. The 2 seasons since he has set and tied the record for K's in a season at 199. Anyone think they'd kick him out of their line-up?