Cutler: Marshall can be one of the Greatest ever.......

[WARHORSE]

WILLIAMSBURG - Jay Cutler's recent addition to the Chicago Bears' roster appears to have ended almost a decade of musical chairs at quarterback in the Windy City. But a receiving corps rated average at best begs the question of who will be on the other end of Cutler's passes.

An enticing solution could be wide receiver Brandon Marshall, Cutler's former teammate in Denver. The two connected for more than 100 completions with the Broncos each of the past two seasons.

Like Cutler — traded by the Broncos to the Bears in April — Marshall wants Denver to trade him. The prospect that the Bears, who reportedly might be interested in Marshall, could bring the two Pro Bowlers back together seems to appeal to Cutler.

"I talked to 'B' a few days ago," Cutler said during an appearance Monday at William and Mary's Colonial All-Pro Football Camp. "Just checking in on him and seeing how he's doing, because I went through a similar thing that he's going through.

"I played with Brandon for three years and I think he's one of the best receivers in the NFL. I think he can be one of the greatest ever to play.

"He's big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room. I don't know what we're going to do. That's up to the guys upstairs. If we make a run at him, we make a run at him."

If not, Cutler — who threw for 4,526 yards in Denver last season — sounds confident that Devin Hester can fit the bill as the Bears' top pass catcher. A converted defensive back who made a splash as one of the most exciting kick returners of recent years, Hester caught 25 passes for 347 yards in the final six games last season.

"I've watched every game from last year and seen him in action quite a bit," Cutler said. "It's a tough transition from (defensive back) to receiver. He's still learning, but overall I can't be happier with how we're working together and his progression.

"I think he's definitely a legitimate No. 1 receiver in the NFL."

Cutler, a fourth-year quarterback from Vanderbilt, moved from Denver to Chicago after a tumultuous series of events. The Broncos fired 14-year coach Mike Shanahan following last season's 8-8 finish.

When Cutler learned that new head coach Josh McDaniels — the former offensive coordinator in New England — was attempting to bring Patriots quarterback Matt Cassell to Denver, Cutler demanded a trade. Cutler says he would now handle the matter differently in some ways, but expresses no regrets about landing in Chicago.

"It's very rare for a player to want to get traded and it work out the way it did work out," said Cutler, who was traded for two first-round draft picks, a fifth-round draft pick and Chicago QB Kyle Orton. "It's kind of a victory for the players, but I think Denver felt they got a pretty good deal, too.

"It worked out for both of us in the long run. I think they're happy with the situation and I couldn't be happier being in Chicago."

The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

The Bears' acquisition of Cutler makes them the favorite of some to win the NFC North. He welcomes the high expectations.

"Defensively they're solid and special teams they're solid," he said. "We've just got to put up some points.

"I think we've got the weapons to do that. The offensive line is great. We got (All-Pro offensive left tackle) Orlando Pace (formerly of St. Louis) in there as well."

Cutler has some time to wait before the start of camp in late July. He spent some of it Monday tutoring future stars at William and Mary.

"It's well put together," he said of the camp. "They're letting the little kids go out there and just have fun, and teaching them the basics.

"You can get a little more specific with the older kids, helping them out and teaching them some tricks."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This guy is lyin through his teeth. He sure spends alot of time telling everyone how happy he is in Chicago. Every article has him saying that. Personally, I think hes trying to convince everyone of that, cause hes not used to practicing on a grass field that needs to be cut..........kinda lets ya know youre in a different era of football.............heh heh.

[CoachChaz]

The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

"whereas I, on the other hand, got my panties in a twist, refused to talk to my boss, demanded a trade and whined until i got what I want."

[powderaddict]

"I talked to 'B' a few days ago," Cutler said during an appearance Monday at William and Mary's Colonial All-Pro Football Camp. "Just checking in on him and seeing how he's doing, because I went through a similar thing that he's going through...



-----------------------------------------------------------------

This guy is lyin through his teeth. He sure spends alot of time telling everyone how happy he is in Chicago. Every article has him saying that. Personally, I think hes trying to convince everyone of that, cause hes not used to practicing on a grass field that needs to be cut..........kinda lets ya know youre in a different era of football.............heh heh.

So Cutler's issue was about the contract then? Because otherwise there is NOTHING similiar between his situation and Marshalls.

I thought Jay said the WR's in Chicago were as good as the ones in Denver :lol:

[BroncoWave]

"He's big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room."

The immature side of my mind had the thought that he's not just talking about football here! :lol:

[powderaddict]

The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

"whereas I, on the other hand, got my panties in a twist, refused to talk to my boss, demanded a trade and whined until i got what I want."

I wonder if he sees the HUGE irony in his statements :laugh:

[Northman]

i dont know if he is lying but i do know he would love to have Marshall there with him. And he will find out soon enough that his offensive line is really not that good. And seeing the footage of his receivers struggling to catch his passes he has his work cut out for himself. But, the good news for him is he has a good RB, and a pretty good defense to work with. The bad news is his division is tougher than the AFCWest.

[Ravage!!!]

Fans are sure fickle.

Sounds to me Cutler is admitting he could have, and should have, handled things differently and is acknowledging that Cambell DID handle it the right way, complimenting him on that fact.

Saying he's happy to be in Chicago is absolutelty the right thing for him to say....whether you believe him or not. Sounds to me, in this interview, he's saying exactly what all of you would have wanted him to say.

[powderaddict]

Fans are sure fickle.

Sounds to me Cutler is admitting he could have, and should have, handled things differently and is acknowledging that Cambell DID handle it the right way, complimenting him on that fact.

Saying he's happy to be in Chicago is absolutelty the right thing for him to say....whether you believe him or not. Sounds to me, in this interview, he's saying exactly what all of you would have wanted him to say.

Yeah, but most of us hate him now :P

You have to admit that it is funny that he compliments Campbell for doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he did :lol:

[Northman]

Yeah, but most of us hate him now :P

You have to admit that it is funny that he compliments Campbell for doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he did :lol:

Hopefully for his sake he is learning. His reputation took a beating during this charade.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, but most of us hate him now :P

You have to admit that it is funny that he compliments Campbell for doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he did :lol:

No.. I don't think its funny... because that was the POINT of the statement. He flat out admitted and said he woudl have/should have handled things differently.....thus WHY he was complimenting Campbell. ITs not like it was an accident for his comments on Jason. IT was the point of making the comment.

I don't hate Jay. I don't hate every player that leaves the Broncos simply because they leave the Broncos. I'll always be a Jay fan.

[Northman]

I don't hate Jay. I don't hate every player that leaves the Broncos simply because they leave the Broncos. I'll always be a Jay fan.

I dont hate every player that leaves here either. Just the ones who cry a lot and pout.

[Thnikkaman]

Fans are sure fickle.

Sounds to me Cutler is admitting he could have, and should have, handled things differently and is acknowledging that Cambell DID handle it the right way, complimenting him on that fact.

Saying he's happy to be in Chicago is absolutelty the right thing for him to say....whether you believe him or not. Sounds to me, in this interview, he's saying exactly what all of you would have wanted him to say.

So are you trying to scold us for being "bad" fans here or something? That is what this post comes off as.

[Ravage!!!]

So are you trying to scold us for being "bad" fans here or something? That is what this post comes off as.

Not at all. Bad fans??? I never said anything close to that.

Just an observation that people, fans, are fickle on people.... period. As soon as they don't belong to our uniform, they get dumped on for everything. That has NOTHING to do with "fanhood."

[Poet]

Brandon Marshall could become of the best WRs ever.

But I sure as hell would bet against that happening.

[Thnikkaman]

Fans are sure fickle.



Then what are you trying to say by this?

I'm not trying to call you out or say you are wrong. I'm trying to get an understanding of where you are coming from.

[NightTrainLayne]

Not at all. Bad fans??? I never said anything close to that.

Just an observation that people, fans, are fickle on people.... period. As soon as they don't belong to our uniform, they get dumped on for everything. That has NOTHING to do with "fanhood."

Human nature, as a general rule, can't help but to stand up and say "I told you so!" when it gets a chance.

[Thnikkaman]

Not at all. Bad fans??? I never said anything close to that.

Just an observation that people, fans, are fickle on people.... period. As soon as they don't belong to our uniform, they get dumped on for everything. That has NOTHING to do with "fanhood."

And sure it does. It all depends on what you are a fan of. Are you a Denver Broncos fan, a Jay Cutler fan, or both? Would you still be a Cutler fan if he was wearing a Raider, Chief, or Charger uniform?

I wasn't going to root for Shannon Sharpe (Not Rod Smith [I'm a dumbass]) when he became a Raven, but welcomed him back with open arms. Even if he retired as a Raven, I would still be pissed that he didn't make it into the HoF on the first ballot, but I wouldn't root for him while he was playing for Baltimore.

[MasterShake]

And sure it does. It all depends on what you are a fan of. Are you a Denver Broncos fan, a Jay Cutler fan, or both? Would you still be a Cutler fan if he was wearing a Raider, Chief, or Charger uniform?

I wasn't going to root for Rod Smith when he became a Raven, but welcomed him back with open arms. Even if he retired as a Raven, I would still be pissed that he didn't make it into the HoF on the first ballot, but I wouldn't root for him while he was playing for Baltimore.

You mean Shannon Sharpe?

[weazel]

wow, he made himself sound like a complete ass in that entire interview.

[NightTrainLayne]

You mean Shannon Sharpe?

See, Thnikka walks the walk. .. once Sharpe left the team he even forgot who he was. Thnikka is 100% Bronco. .. doesn't matter who suits up in the uniforms. :D

[MasterShake]

wow, he made himself sound like a complete ass in that entire interview.

Really. If just TALKING about getting a new QB led him to want to leave in a fit, how does he think him TALKING about how great Brandon Marshall is affects Devin Hester?

I hope Devin Hester demands a trade, we keep Marshall, and the universe is once again right as he loses his best receiver.

[Thnikkaman]

You mean Shannon Sharpe?

Yes I totally mean Shannon Sharpe. Frigging code has my brain fried.

[Thnikkaman]

Corrected, but edited in a way to show what a DA I am .

[WARHORSE]

WILLIAMSBURG - Jay Cutler's recent addition to the Chicago Bears' roster appears to have ended almost a decade of musical chairs at quarterback in the Windy City. But a receiving corps rated average at best begs the question of who will be on the other end of Cutler's passes.

An enticing solution could be wide receiver Brandon Marshall, Cutler's former teammate in Denver. The two connected for more than 100 completions with the Broncos each of the past two seasons.

Like Cutler — traded by the Broncos to the Bears in April — Marshall wants Denver to trade him. The prospect that the Bears, who reportedly might be interested in Marshall, could bring the two Pro Bowlers back together seems to appeal to Cutler.

Not happenin.

"I talked to 'B' a few days ago," Cutler said during an appearance Monday at William and Mary's Colonial All-Pro Football Camp. "Just checking in on him and seeing how he's doing, because I went through a similar thing that he's going through.

No. Not similar Jay.

"I played with Brandon for three years and I think he's one of the best receivers in the NFL. I think he can be one of the greatest ever to play.

"I play for my teamates." Remember that one? We'll let you know how he turns out.

"He's big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room. I don't know what we're going to do. That's up to the guys upstairs. If we make a run at him, we make a run at him."

Uh, dont count yer chickens. At all. Hes not goin to Chicago.

If not, Cutler — who threw for 4,526 yards in Denver last season — sounds confident that Devin Hester can fit the bill as the Bears' top pass catcher. A converted defensive back who made a splash as one of the most exciting kick returners of recent years, Hester caught 25 passes for 347 yards in the final six games last season.

"I've watched every game from last year and seen him in action quite a bit," Cutler said. "It's a tough transition from (defensive back) to receiver. He's still learning, but overall I can't be happier with how we're working together and his progression.

"I think he's definitely a legitimate No. 1 receiver in the NFL."

A legitimate number 1? Boy, the cold weather up there has fogged your brain.

Cutler, a fourth-year quarterback from Vanderbilt, moved from Denver to Chicago after a tumultuous series of events. The Broncos fired 14-year coach Mike Shanahan following last season's 8-8 finish.

When Cutler learned that new head coach Josh McDaniels — the former offensive coordinator in New England — was attempting to bring Patriots quarterback Matt Cassell to Denver, Cutler demanded a trade. Cutler says he would now handle the matter differently in some ways, but expresses no regrets about landing in Chicago.

"It's very rare for a player to want to get traded and it work out the way it did work out," said Cutler, who was traded for two first-round draft picks, a fifth-round draft pick and Chicago QB Kyle Orton. "It's kind of a victory for the players, but I think Denver felt they got a pretty good deal, too.

A victory for the players..............HMMMmmmmm................gott a let that one sink in.

"It worked out for both of us in the long run. I think they're happy with the situation and I couldn't be happier being in Chicago."

We havent seen the long run yet Jay. This is June.

The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

This takes the cake. Cutler giving the advice to just keep doing what hes doing and working hard.

The Bears' acquisition of Cutler makes them the favorite of some to win the NFC North. He welcomes the high expectations.

"Defensively they're solid and special teams they're solid," he said. "We've just got to put up some points.

"I think we've got the weapons to do that. The offensive line is great. We got (All-Pro 67 year old offensive left tackle) Orlando Pace (formerly of St. Louis) in there as well."

Cutler has some time to wait before the start of camp in late July. He spent some of it Monday tutoring future stars at William and Mary.

"It's well put together," he said of the camp. "They're letting the little kids go out there and just have fun, and teaching them the basics.

"You can get a little more specific with the older kids, helping them out and teaching them some tricks."




Cutler, you suck bud. Fickle, prickle, dickle, whatever.


You left the best for the rest, and therefore you shall suck evermore.

Thats just the way it is.:coffee:

[BroncoWave]

Really. If just TALKING about getting a new QB led him to want to leave in a fit, how does he think him TALKING about how great Brandon Marshall is affects Devin Hester?

I hope Devin Hester demands a trade, we keep Marshall, and the universe is once again right as he loses his best receiver.

Agreed. Hester can't like to hear the quarterback fellating Marshall through the media like that.

[broncofanatic1987]

I wonder if Cutler is dropping hints to the Bears' front office that he wants them to go after Marshall. I don't think it would work because I don't think the Bears have the ammunition.

Where does he get off claiming he went through the same thing Jason Campbell went through. It's not even close. The Redskins were very publicly trying to trade Campbell where as the Broncos received some phone calls and it became public afterward.

His situation is also no where near similar to Marshall's situation. He cried because the Broncos took some phone calls about him. Marshall wants a new contract he doesn't deserve until at least after his trial in Georgia is resolved.

:tsk::tsk::tsk::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[CoachChaz]

No.. I don't think its funny... because that was the POINT of the statement. He flat out admitted and said he woudl have/should have handled things differently.....thus WHY he was complimenting Campbell. ITs not like it was an accident for his comments on Jason. IT was the point of making the comment.

I don't hate Jay. I don't hate every player that leaves the Broncos simply because they leave the Broncos. I'll always be a Jay fan.

Did someone edit the original story? Because I COMPLETELY issed this part

[Poet]

Did someone edit the original story? Because I COMPLETELY issed this part

That happened right after Jay Cutler cured AIDS and McDaniels slept with Jay Cutler's mom.

[CoachChaz]

That happened right after Jay Cutler cured AIDS and McDaniels slept with Jay Cutler's mom.

See...I knew about those things and about the time Jay got off the cross and ascended into heaven and yada yada...

but this admission that he handled things wrong...completely missed that

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Can we stop talking about Wilford Brimley's brother? Seriously.

[WARHORSE]

I wonder if Cutler is dropping hints to the Bears' front office that he wants them to go after Marshall. I don't think it would work because I don't think the Bears have the ammunition.

Where does he get off claiming he went through the same thing Jason Campbell went through. It's not even close. The Redskins were very publicly trying to trade Campbell where as the Broncos received some phone calls and it became public afterward.

His situation is also no where near similar to Marshall's situation. He cried because the Broncos took some phone calls about him. Marshall wants a new contract he doesn't deserve until at least after his trial in Georgia is resolved.

:tsk::tsk::tsk::rolleyes::rolleyes:



Um......yup.

I think thats what BaileyTheBest meant when he said, 'Fellating'.



After throwin to the Chicago Cubs WRs up there for a few days, he drops on all fours and starts milking Brandon as one of the greatest of all time.



Id say thats qualifies as 'fellating' especially since he has spoken negatively of Brandon here in Broncoland.


A nasty way to think of things..........but.......yerp.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Um......yup.

I think thats what BaileyTheBest meant when he said, 'Fellating'.



After throwin to the Chicago Cubs WRs up there for a few days, he drops on all fours and starts milking Brandon as one of the greatest of all time.



Id say thats qualifies as 'fellating' especially since he has spoken negatively of Brandon here in Broncoland.


A nasty way to think of things..........but.......yerp.

He only ever spoke of Brandon negatively after the McDonalds bag incident - never about his play. I can guarantee you that if Brandon went to Chicago, he and Jay wouldn't miss a beat and Chicago would win the North easily.

[WARHORSE]

He only ever spoke of Brandon negatively after the McDonalds bag incident - never about his play. I can guarantee you that if Brandon went to Chicago, he and Jay wouldn't miss a beat and Chicago would win the North easily.


Guarantee?

I'll make a guarantee of my own: Brandon Marshall will never be traded to Chicago from Denver.

End of story.


What do they have to give? Nothing.

[LRtagger]

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."


Thanks for the sound advice, jackass.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

He only ever spoke of Brandon negatively after the McDonalds bag incident - never about his play. I can guarantee you that if Brandon went to Chicago, he and Jay wouldn't miss a beat and Chicago would win the North easily.

Aging Oline
Aging defense


W/ or w/o BM, Chicago is 3rd best in the NFCN.

[BroncoWave]

Aging Oline
Aging defense


W/ or w/o BM, Chicago is 3rd best in the NFCN.

Agreed. If they think they are going to dominate that division just because of their new quarterback they have a new thing coming. GB and Minnesota are both improved from last season (assuming they get Favre).

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think Minnesota is ready to explode...regardless of who the QB is.

[tumbana]

Aging Oline
Aging defense


W/ or w/o BM, Chicago is 3rd best in the NFCN.

The average age of their O line is the same as the Broncos.

If 26.5-27 years old for the average age of their starters and two players being 31 years old is "aging" then yes, they are aging. I wonder if 36 year old safeties and 30+ year old corners are considered "aging."

[tumbana]

I think Minnesota is ready to explode...regardless of who the QB is.

They have the last 2 years. They are paper champions every year. They will never live up to the undeserved hype. Not to mention they have horrible coaching.

[tumbana]

Um......yup.

I think thats what BaileyTheBest meant when he said, 'Fellating'.



After throwin to the Chicago Cubs WRs up there for a few days, he drops on all fours and starts milking Brandon as one of the greatest of all time.



Id say thats qualifies as 'fellating' especially since he has spoken negatively of Brandon here in Broncoland.


A nasty way to think of things..........but.......yerp.
They are the Chicago Bears and he has praised the receivers every day. Never spoke negatively about them once and has said again and again that he likes what he has now. Oh yeah, you just like coming up with your own conclusions.

[BroncoWave]

The average age of their O line is the same as the Broncos.

If 26.5-27 years old for the average age of their starters and two players being 31 years old is "aging" then yes, they are aging. I wonder if 36 year old safeties and 30+ year old corners are considered "aging."

He was talking about the Bears.

[tumbana]

He was talking about the Bears.

I know. I was also talking about the Bears.

[BroncoWave]

I know. I was also talking about the Bears.

Ah ok my mistake. Well regardless, their defense is aging. Their stats on D last year were pretty unimpressive compared to what they are used to.

[tumbana]

Ah ok my mistake. Well regardless, their defense is aging. Their stats on D last year were pretty unimpressive compared to what they are used to.

That was because of their D coordinator who got pretty much demoted. They got great new coaching and young depth this year along with Lovie running the D. They performed poorly but were still respectable in certain stats.

5th against the run
5th in opponent 3rd down %
2nd in takeaways
3rd in yards per rush
8th in yards per pass
gave up 21 ppg which was a letdown but will improve and isn't all that bad
7th in overall defensive efficiency (footballoutsiders.com stat)

While seeing the field more than any defense in the NFL. The better coaching, playcalling, new quality depth, an offseason to train, and an offense to keep them off the field will help them return to dominance.

[Thnikkaman]

That was because of our D coordinator who got pretty much demoted. We got great new coaching and young depth this year along with Lovie running the D. We performed poorly but are still respectable in certain stats.

5th against the run
5th in opponent 3rd down %
2nd in takeaways
3rd in yards per rush
8th in yards per pass
gave up 21 ppg which was a letdown but will improve and isn't all that bad
7th in overall defensive efficiency (footballoutsiders.com stat)

While seeing the field more than any defense in the NFL. The better coaching, playcalling, new quality depth, an offseason to train, and an offense to keep us off the field will help them return to dominance.

Bears fan huh? Its OK to admit it. We aren't going to lambaste you for it. Just as long as you aren't a Chicago transplant going to the University of Iowa, you're cool.

[powderaddict]

So tubatuna is trolling here too eh? :lol:

Trolling 1 board can be fun. Trolling 2 boards is indicitive of no-life-living-in-mom's-basement desperation :lol:

[tumbana]

Bears fan huh? Its OK to admit it. We aren't going to lambaste you for it. Just as long as you aren't a Chicago transplant going to the University of Iowa, you're cool.

Yeah, I'm a Bears fan. I was a member of the official Broncos MB but the mods over there have sticks up their you know whats. I just get a little annoyed when I see people saying things that are incorrect or talking about my team without being properly informed. That's all.

[Tempus Fugit]

Yeah, I'm a Bears fan. I was a member of the official Broncos MB but the mods over there have sticks up their you know whats. I just get a little annoyed when I see people saying things that are incorrect or talking about my team without being properly informed. That's all.

Garza is 30
Beekman is 25
Kreutz is 32
Pace is 33
Shaffer is 29

Unless I'm missing something about how that O-line is shaking up, and that's certainly possible, the average age of Chicago's O-line is going to be 29.8.

If Omiyale is in for Garza, the average age is 29

[tumbana]

Garza is 30
Beekman is 25
Kreutz is 32
Pace is 33
Shaffer is 29

Unless I'm missing something about how that O-line is shaking up, and that's certainly possible, the average age of Chicago's O-line is going to be 29.8.

If Omiyale is in for Garza, the average age is 29

The O line is made of 5 players, not 4 Williams is 23. Shaffer might not start. It might be the 25 year old Omileye instead of Garza. Either way, there is a young guy to take over whenever needed.

[Thnikkaman]

So tubatuna is trolling here too eh? :lol:

Trolling 1 board can be fun. Trolling 2 boards is indicitive of no-life-living-in-mom's-basement desperation :lol:

In 5 posts, he has done nothing but defend his team. Lets show him that we aren't the type of board that can't take a little football talk (or non football talk) from other teams fans. We have Colts, Raiders, Chiefs, Bengals and Patriots fans that come here and contribute. Just because he isn't a Broncos fan doesn't make him a troll.

Tumbana, feel free to introduce yourself in this area of the board
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7

You will find that we are pretty accepting, and if you want to troll the board, we won't have a problem smacking you around for quite a while. See a member named OaklandRaider for an example.

[Tempus Fugit]

The O line is made of 5 players, not 4 Williams is 23. Shaffer might not start. It might be the 25 year old Omileye instead of Garza. Either way, there is a young guy to take over whenever needed.

From my post:

Garza is 30
Beekman is 25
Kreutz is 32
Pace is 33
Shaffer is 29

That would be 5 people, not 4, and I mentioned the possibility of Omiyale starting with the age still averaging 29 years. So, you came here and posted because you "just get a little annoyed when I see people saying things that are incorrect", but you've likely been incorrect about your favorite team's o-line, since it's not likely that all 3 young players are starting on the line, and you don't know how to spell the last name of one of the team's linemen.


Fascinating.

[tumbana]

From my post:

Garza is 30
Beekman is 25
Kreutz is 32
Pace is 33
Shaffer is 29

That would be 5 people, not 4, and I mentioned the possibility of Omiyale starting with the age still averaging 29 years. So, you came here and posted because you "just get a little annoyed when I see people saying things that are incorrect", but you've likely been incorrect about your favorite team's o-line, since it's not likely that all 3 young players are starting on the line, and you don't know how to spell the last name of one of the team's linemen.


Fascinating.

Chris Williams is going to be at RT. Garza will also probably not start. You don't even know who is going to start.

Pace 33
Omileye 25
Kreutz 32
Beekman 25
Williams 23

If not Omileye, than either Shaffer or Garza, but regardlas Omileye is going to be the eventual starter there.

Don't tell me I am incorrect about my own team, please, your post was 100% false.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

What is your point anyways, Chumbawumba? Your line sucks balls compared to the Broncos. You can exit stage left, right, front, back or ALT+F4 at any time. Thank you.

[Shazam!]

Jay will not have all the time like he did in Denver, and trying to imply he will is a joke. It is an easy bet that he will be sacked more than 12 times. Anything else is just delousional or a homer fan trying to convince himself that the Bears OLine is better than it is. Not only pass protection but his Backs won't have the same run blocking either. They won't see the return of the Skins' Hogs or the 97-98 Broncos in Chicago anytime soon.

Back to topic-

Marshall had 0 TDs when Denver needed him the most, in 3 must-win games. So much for clutch... the greatest are clutch. Hello? Please spare me the hype. I'd take a prime Rod Smith any day of the week who wasn't nearly as physically gifted as Marshall. Cutler is simply begging for Marshall. I'm not going to say Denver would be better off without their best WR, but that's stretching it.

[tumbana]

Jay will not have all the time like he did in Denver, and trying to imply he will is a joke. It is an easy bet that he will be sacked more than 12 times. Anything else is just delousional or a homer fan trying to convince himself that the Bears OLine is better than it is. Not only pass protection but his Backs won't have the same run blocking either. They won't see the return of the Skins' Hogs or the 97-98 Broncos in Chicago anytime soon.



I guarantee the Broncos give up at least twice the sacks this year than they did last year. In a 9 min highlight of Cutler, I saw 10 plays where I know for a FACT Orton would not have avoided the sack. You take away Cutler's mobility, the fact that opposing Ds won't respect Otrton like they did Cutler and have more people in coverage and not blitzing like crazy like they did against CHI last year, and opposing defenses and pass rushers faced being SINIFICANTLY tougher than in 08, and you won't be saying the same thing. Guaranteed. The Bears O line was 11th in pass protection last year despite having opposite factors. Less mobile QB, less respect for throwing the ball, and better pass rushers faced. Now the Bears O line has improved and has good depth, and has a much more mobile QB. I'm not saying the Bears O line is/was better, but I think you are not really thinking subjectively.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Tumbana, I'm not sure anyone here cares whether or not you think the Broncos will give up twice as many sacks this year than last year. At any case, that'd still be a fantastic year -- after the fact they gave up one of the least sack rates per drop back attempts in NFL history.

[tumbana]

Tumbana, I'm not sure anyone here cares whether or not you think the Broncos will give up twice as many sacks this year than last year. At any case, that'd still be a fantastic year -- after the fact they gave up one of the least sack rates per drop back attempts in NFL history.

Again, look into detail instead of simple stats. There are tons of factors into why I think the Broncos will give up at least twice the sacks.

[Shazam!]

Orton will have better recievers, TEs, the better Line, probably better Backs.

You will not see the same Orton that was in Chicago.

I'm not saying he'll be a world beater either, but Denver's personnel should be far and above better than what Cutler will have in Chicago.

If McD is anything as billed the QB guru, he'll be twice as good in a system he should excel in too and better coached.

**** the Bears and **** Cutler too. I hope Minny and GB beat their brains in.

Way to jack this Marshall thread too.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I watch the Broncos games last year and I know that Jay's ability to move in the pocket ended up saving sacks in the long run. That can be said about most teams, especially most teams with semi-mobile quarterbacks, which are most all teams with legit starters in the NFL. Regardless, the Broncos did a phenomenal job blocking for Jay and I expect they will do the same for Orton. If you want a pre-assessment as to why the Broncos will not block better, a change in blocking scheme might be it.

[tumbana]

Orton will have better recievers, TEs, the better Line, probably better Backs.

You will not see the same Orton that was in Chicago.

I'm not saying he'll be a world beater either, but Denver's personnel should be far and above better than what Cutler will have in Chicago.

If McD is anything as billed the QB guru, he'll be twice as good in a system he should excel in too and better coached.

**** the Bears and **** Cutler too. I hope Minny and GB beat their brains in.

Way to jack this Marshall thread too.
Orton will not have better TEs and sure as hell not have better RBs. Those are the only positions he throws to. He probably won't even have Marshall. He doesn't throw to WRs. He can't throw downfield to save his life. He has no confidence in himself to throw the ball past 10 yards. He won't have the best special teams in the NFL and a turnover forcing defense that stopped opposing Ds on 3rd down to give him chance after chance to redeem himself. I like how the QBs themselves don't count for anything, BTW...

Thanks for the kind words.

[sneakers]

Yes, given infinate parallel universes (as theorized in quantum physics) anything and everything will happen....unfortunately not in this particular universe.

[BroncoWave]

Orton will not have better TEs and sure as hell not have better RBs. Those are the only positions he throws to. He probably won't even have Marshall. He doesn't throw to WRs. He can't throw downfield to save his life. He has no confidence in himself to throw the ball past 10 yards. He won't have the best special teams in the NFL and a turnover forcing defense that stopped opposing Ds on 3rd down to give him chance after chance to redeem himself. I like how the QBs themselves don't count for anything, BTW...

Thanks for the kind words.

You guys have one good TE (Olsen) and one good RB (Forte)

Denver has 2 good TE's (Scheffler, Graham) and at LEAST 2 good RB's (Moreno, Hillis) not to mention 2 more solid veterans (Jordan, Buckhalter).

And maybe the reason Orton never threw to his WR's in Chicago is because his WR's SUCKED BALLS and Olsen and Forte were the only 2 guys on that roster who could catch a football! Even if Denver doesn't have Marshall this year (which I think we will) Royal and Stokley are still better than any WR the Bears have and I believe Orton will throw to them since they can be trusted to catch the ball, unlike any WR on the Bears roster. And the better O-line isn't even a debate. The offensive coaching in Chicago is also a joke compared to what Orton will have in Denver.

You can sit there and be delusional but Orton has a better supporting cast in Denver than he had in Chicago in every single aspect and that will be proven this year.

[tumbana]

You guys have one good TE (Olsen) and one good RB (Forte)

Denver has 2 good TE's (Scheffler, Graham) and at LEAST 2 good RB's (Moreno, Hillis) not to mention 2 more solid veterans (Jordan, Buckhalter).
Um no, the Bears also have two good TEs (Desmond Clark who is now used more for blocking) and I will take Olsen over either of yours. Forte is way better than anyone you have now and Kevin Jones as a backup is SOLID. He has actually been a decent starter in his career before getting injured in Detroit. They are hands down a better duo than anything Denver can put out there. They have proven that they can get it done in the NFL.


And maybe the reason Orton never threw to his WR's in Chicago is because his WR's SUCKED BALLS and Olsen and Forte were the only 2 guys on that roster who could catch a football!
Bears WRs were 7th in the NFL in receptions per drop. The Broncos were 21st...

Oh, and even when Orton had Muhammad, Berrian, and Gage, he still didn't throw to WRs.


Even if Denver doesn't have Marshall this year (which I think we will) Royal and Stokley are still better than any WR the Bears have and I believe Orton will throw to them since they can be trusted to catch the ball,

See point above. Lets see what each WR group can do with their respective QBs. Last I checked, It's the QBs job to get the ball to the WRs. The Wrs don't throw to themselves.


And the better O-line isn't even a debate. The offensive coaching in Chicago is also a joke compared to what Orton will have in Denver.
You don't have to debate. Just remember this: The Broncos will give up more sacks in 2009 than the Chicago Bears.

When was the last time the Broncos were top 10 in offensive scoring? Let me give you a hint. The Bears have done it since the last time they did. (8th in 06 with a less talented offense than they have now).


You can sit there and be delusional but Orton has a better supporting cast in Denver than he had in Chicago in every single aspect and that will be proven this year.

Lets see what Orton can do playing from behind often, and with some pretty garbage field position. A defense that can't stop a drive to save their lives, a ST unit that can't block kicks, and a FG kicker who can't kick it through the uprights.

BTW, the supporting cast is going to be as good as the guy running the show. Don't kid yourself either, Orton changing teams is not going to make him more athletic or change what he is. An average QB.

[WARHORSE]

Orton will not have better TEs and sure as hell not have better RBs. Those are the only positions he throws to. He probably won't even have Marshall. He doesn't throw to WRs. He can't throw downfield to save his life. He has no confidence in himself to throw the ball past 10 yards. He won't have the best special teams in the NFL and a turnover forcing defense that stopped opposing Ds on 3rd down to give him chance after chance to redeem himself. I like how the QBs themselves don't count for anything, BTW...

Thanks for the kind words.


What WRs were there to throw to?

Hester? Dont make us laugh. Hester is a return specialist with exceptional skills who moonlights at WR. He can run a nine route......thats the extent of Devin Hester as a WR in Chitown.

I think youre going to find that Orton will play better with skilled positions filled around him.

He didnt have ONE true WR up there last year, and this year he will have four.

Cutler has mad skills, and you guys got a great player.........if he continues to progress.

[CoachChaz]

I'll give in and say that Olsen may be better than Sheff overall, but even though Moreno hasnt seen the field yet, I find it incredulous that anyone other than a Bears homer could say that based on overall skill (which is all we have at this point), the over-achieving Forte is a better RB than Moreno.

[Den21vsBal19]

Yeah, I'm a Bears fan. I was a member of the official Broncos MB but the mods over there have sticks up their you know whats. I just get a little annoyed when I see people saying things that are incorrect or talking about my team without being properly informed. That's all.
Enjoy yourself whilst you're here :salute:

[Thnikkaman]

I guarantee the Broncos give up at least twice the sacks this year than they did last year. In a 9 min highlight of Cutler, I saw 10 plays where I know for a FACT Orton would not have avoided the sack. You take away Cutler's mobility, the fact that opposing Ds won't respect Otrton like they did Cutler and have more people in coverage and not blitzing like crazy like they did against CHI last year, and opposing defenses and pass rushers faced being SINIFICANTLY tougher than in 08, and you won't be saying the same thing. Guaranteed. The Bears O line was 11th in pass protection last year despite having opposite factors. Less mobile QB, less respect for throwing the ball, and better pass rushers faced. Now the Bears O line has improved and has good depth, and has a much more mobile QB. I'm not saying the Bears O line is/was better, but I think you are not really thinking subjectively.

In that 9 minute highlight of Cutler, did you see how many times he passed up an open receiver to wait for Marshal to get open? And hey, he was pretty good at avoiding a sack so that he could throw the ball to the other team instead of playing smart.

Who knows, maybe he will grow up while he plays in Chicago. I'm willing to bet he wont.

:focus:

Cutler's days of passing to Marshal are over unless Marshal decides to play corner whenever he plays against the Bears.

[Northman]

They have the last 2 years. They are paper champions every year. They will never live up to the undeserved hype. Not to mention they have horrible coaching.

:lol:

Wonderful. Some dolt calling out the Vikings for being paper champions yet the Bears have gone 7-9 and 9-7 the last two years after being in the Super Bowl with that ALL WORLD DEFENSE of theirs. hahahahaaaa

[Northman]

I'll give in and say that Olsen may be better than Sheff overall, but even though Moreno hasnt seen the field yet, I find it incredulous that anyone other than a Bears homer could say that based on overall skill (which is all we have at this point), the over-achieving Forte is a better RB than Moreno.

Ill only say Olsen is better because Sheff spends too much time being hurt. If Sheff stayed healthy he would blow the doors of Olsen and Clark. But at this point being healthy is a bigger advantage.

[CoachChaz]

Ill only say Olsen is better because Sheff spends too much time being hurt. If Sheff stayed healthy he would blow the doors of Olsen and Clark. But at this point being healthy is a bigger advantage.

I agree 100%.

[tumbana]

What WRs were there to throw to?
Very young, very talented WRs who have never had the luxury of a QB like Cutler. Not to mention outstanding TEs and a RB who can catch the ball like a WR.


Hester? Dont make us laugh. Hester is a return specialist with exceptional skills who moonlights at WR. He can run a nine route......thats the extent of Devin Hester as a WR in Chitown.
Hester started 8 games las year. He started full time the last 6 games and over those last six games was on pace for 1000 yards over a full season. He was making great strides and even commentators were mentioning it during games. He did so while having a QB that took his best asset away from him. Everyone, including experts, have been keeping up with his this offseason and have all seen him and what he did this offseason. He has improved leaps and bounds. Cutler has bee throwing to him A LOT since he came here and has been extremely impressed. He will break out. If he doesn't have over 1000 yards this year (baring injury) I would be shocked.


I think youre going to find that Orton will play better with skilled positions filled around him.
I think you are going to find that ORton will not play as well as you think he will, but we will see...


He didnt have ONE true WR up there last year, and this year he will have four.
The sad thing is when Orton was doing so well in the beginning of the season nobody was giving the Bears Wrs, O line, etc any credit. Just Orton and when ORton started going back to his old self, everyone started blaming the WRs and O line calling them garbage when just watching games, Orton wouldn't throw to open WRs and clearly dropped off his play.


Cutler has mad skills, and you guys got a great player.........if he continues to progress.
Which is why we are ecstatic to have him.

[tumbana]

Ill only say Olsen is better because Sheff spends too much time being hurt. If Sheff stayed healthy he would blow the doors of Olsen and Clark. But at this point being healthy is a bigger advantage.

No, he would certainly not blow the doors off Olsen, especially with a downgrade at QB and that QB not throwing 616 times. Olsen is the best young TE in the NFL. When your QB can make throws like these,

(1:00)http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80aa9e26/WK-1-Jay-Cutler-highlights

(2:45) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80ced818/WK-13-Jay-Cutler-highlights


it helps quite a bit.

[Northman]

No, he would certainly not blow the doors off Olsen, especially with a downgrade at QB and that QB not throwing 616 times. Olsen is the best young TE in the NFL. When your QB can make throws like these,

(1:00)http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80aa9e26/WK-1-Jay-Cutler-highlights

(2:45) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80ced818/WK-13-Jay-Cutler-highlights


it helps quite a bit.


Olsen is good but not the best in the NFL. My point still stands. Sheff is a far better threat down field than Olsen or Clark. His biggest problem has been staying healthy enough to stay on the field.

[tumbana]

:lol:

Wonderful. Some dolt calling out the Vikings for being paper champions yet the Bears have gone 7-9 and 9-7 the last two years after being in the Super Bowl with that ALL WORLD DEFENSE of theirs. hahahahaaaa

The Bears have averaged 10 wins the last 4 years and have done so getting no respect from the media. All they do is get trashed. Even during their SB year they were getting hated on non-stop. I'd call from 7-9 where the Bears literally lost a majority of their starting defense, lost their starting RB, and used 3 different QBs to 9-7 is an improvement. They have done things to improve even more. The Vikings keep getting called SB favorites but when they finally made the payoffs with all of their talent by one game, they got booted out the first round at home.

[tumbana]

Olsen is good but not the best in the NFL. My point still stands. Sheff is a far better threat down field than Olsen or Clark. His biggest problem has been staying healthy enough to stay on the field.

He is not the best in the NFL, the best YOUNG TE in the NFL and has potential to be the best the next few years. Better downfield threat? Olsen had a QB who couldn't throw past 15 yards to save his life. He's got WR speed (4.45) in a 6'5 255lb body. He needs a QB who can make the throws like the ones I showed. He's going to be a monster.

[Poet]

He is not the best in the NFL, the best YOUNG TE in the NFL and has potential to be the best the next few years. Better downfield threat? Olsen had a QB who couldn't throw past 15 yards to save his life. He's got WR speed (4.45) in a 6'5 255lb body. He needs a QB who can make the throws like the ones I showed. He's going to be a monster.

Olsen has done nothing of relevance at all. The excuse that he does not have a good QB does not work for a TE. Everyone knows that TE's are a QB's security blanket.

Exactly what has he done to deserve any sort of praise at all?

[CoachChaz]

It still amazes me that everyone insists that Orton cant throw a ball. Was I watching someone else playing those games for the Bears last season?

Does he have the gun that Cutler has? Hell no...but will he need that in this offense? No. Just remember that we saw ALOT of throws where having an arm "stronger than Elway's" was clearly not to his advantage.

[WARHORSE]

Very young, very talented WRs who have never had the luxury of a QB like Cutler. Not to mention outstanding TEs and a RB who can catch the ball like a WR.

We're all aware of the WRs being very young as you say in Chicago, but we're still waiting for the 'very talented' part to show up. Youre trying really hard to be objective.............dont blow it.


Hester started 8 games las year. He started full time the last 6 games and over those last six games was on pace for 1000 yards over a full season. He was making great strides and even commentators were mentioning it during games. He did so while having a QB that took his best asset away from him. Everyone, including experts, have been keeping up with his this offseason and have all seen him and what he did this offseason. He has improved leaps and bounds. Cutler has bee throwing to him A LOT since he came here and has been extremely impressed. He will break out. If he doesn't have over 1000 yards this year (baring injury) I would be shocked.

Projecting stats I see. Projection doesnt win in this league. What 'asset' was it that Orton took away? His route running? Big time WRs make plays with their assets..............we're still waiting.


I think you are going to find that ORton will not play as well as you think he will, but we will see...

May as well cruise the hammock with a wet one while Im waiting.........

The sad thing is when Orton was doing so well in the beginning of the season nobody was giving the Bears Wrs, O line, etc any credit. Just Orton and when ORton started going back to his old self, everyone started blaming the WRs and O line calling them garbage when just watching games, Orton wouldn't throw to open WRs and clearly dropped off his play.

Thats across the league, with every QB. Too much cred, and too much blame. And BTW, most QBs wont throw to WRs they cant trust........they end up dumping the ball off all the time........did you see any of that this year by chance? We arent asking him to be Cutler...............just a point guard. Distribute the ball..............


Which is why we are ecstatic to have him.

So far.........


I think the biggest problem you have right now, is what happens if Cutler gets hurt?

Everything you have going for you is riding on his shoulders. Hope he holds up, cause if he doesnt...........we'll be picking pretty high next year.


We on the other hand, are not solely dependent on the health of our QB.

[Lonestar]

Well welcome to tumba,

How ever proud he is of jay, it will IMHO soon be dampened when he goes into a rant to his WRs that are dropping the ball, someone blows a block or sets on the bench by himself and pouts on the sideline...

The kid has a world class arm and the immaturity of a 13 year old Missy.. a Jeff George waiting to happen..

he did really well last year with a great HC and QB coach that allowed him to throw deep ignoring the open man much of the time..

I do not think lovie is going to allow that. Hey just remember your OC is the guy that did not want jay at IL unless he played safety. That in itself tells me what kind of dolt he must be.. and how much trust jay must have in him.. ahahahahahahahaha


we will most likely have more sacks than we did last year.. but remember last year we also started 4 new bodies on that OLINE with only Hamilton ever playing in the same spot for the same team he did the year before..

Both OT were rookies at their position and the ORG was a converted ORT.. the center while a veteran had never played in the ZBS system before and was not expected to start at all.. to have been #2 in not allowing sacks is pretty good IMO..

Pace for Y'all may be a God send or disaster since for the most part he is pretty used up..

As for your WR and jay making them better.. I have to wonder if he were so happy with them why all the love for mar$hall

[tumbana]

Olsen has done nothing of relevance at all. The excuse that he does not have a good QB does not work for a TE. Everyone knows that TE's are a QB's security blanket.

Exactly what has he done to deserve any sort of praise at all?

That praise? Have you seen him play? Of course a QB has say in what he catches. Do they not throw the ball? I showed video of the kind of passes Scheffler was getting. Olsen hasn't had anything remotely close to that so far in his career. Those are absolutely ridiculous types of passes. That is Olsen's QB now so he can show his downfield ability. As for the security blanket, nowadays that is not necessarily the case. When olsen was not bruning LBs, he was being covered by nickel backs and safeties because of how hard he was to handle.

[tumbana]

We're all aware of the WRs being very young as you say in Chicago, but we're still waiting for the 'very talented' part to show up. Youre trying really hard to be objective.............dont blow it
They most definitely are talented. They just have not seen the field a whole lot nor had a QB like Cutler so obviously, nobody has actually seen that.


I think the biggest problem you have right now, is what happens if Cutler gets hurt?

Everything you have going for you is riding on his shoulders. Hope he holds up, cause if he doesnt...........we'll be picking pretty high next year.
You can say the same for just about every team out there. Hanie is a nice young QB who has a similar playing style to Jay Cutler with his mobility and arm strength, while not as good, still serviceable from what I have seen.


Projecting stats I see. Projection doesnt win in this league. What 'asset' was it that Orton took away? His route running? Big time WRs make plays with their assets..............we're still waiting.
I'm just saying the pace he was setting showed he could be a viable WR since he will be a full time starter this time. He was not starting until the 2nd half of 08. His biggest asset is speed. He was missed literally 10 times while running free after toasting the CB. One game that stuck out was the Saints game. Hester had the Saints DBs beat by like 10 yards three times and Orton did not throw the ball anywhere close. That doesn't count passes 20+ yards. With him improving by leaps and bounds, being a full time starter, and having Cutler, he will do fine.


Thats across the league, with every QB. Too much cred, and too much blame. And BTW, most QBs wont throw to WRs they cant trust........they end up dumping the ball off all the time........did you see any of that this year by chance? We arent asking him to be Cutler...............just a point guard. Distribute the ball..............
I saw more of Orton not trusting himself. Watching a lot of games, there were WRs running free over the middle and he would either hesitate, making it too late, or just not throw the ball. I did not see any sort of distrust. Just orton going with his instincts.



We on the other hand, are not solely dependent on the health of our QB.

Because the drop off is not very significant, which you shouldn't really be proud of considering Simms hasn't played in 2 years.

[tumbana]

It still amazes me that everyone insists that Orton cant throw a ball. Was I watching someone else playing those games for the Bears last season?

Does he have the gun that Cutler has? Hell no...but will he need that in this offense? No. Just remember that we saw ALOT of throws where having an arm "stronger than Elway's" was clearly not to his advantage.

His problem isn't necessarily his ability to throw the ball. His problem is his mechanics and instincts. When the play breaks down or his mechanics are off, he really struggles. He also does not look very confident throwing past 10 yards. He hesitates and second guesses a lot. There were games where he did not do that and as a result played well, but he is not consistent in that regard.

[jrelway]

orton sucks plain and simple. griese got the nod over him, and so did grossman. screw all the 5 youtube higlights of the man. many say he has more wins than losses. B.S. teams win games not a single player. like i said earlier, ill support him but the guy sucks.

[jrelway]

if we lose marshall, just please dont trade him to chicago. that smirk on jay cutlers face at the end of the interview made me sick. double chinned poor mans beatle.

[Shazam!]

To all the people who say Orton sucks, I won't disagree that he isn't the most physically gifted QB.

What I WILL say is-

Neither is Chad Pennington. Not by a long shot.

Chad has the arm strength of Brian Griese or Orton (or worse), had multiple surgeries on his shoulder, and isn't anything prototypical of a talented QB in speed or arm strength. What Penny lacked physically he makes up for it in mechanics and instinct.

Chad plays smart, is a leader, has heart and inspires his teammates.

Had the NYJ kept Chad and not gotten Farve, they would've been in the Playoffs and not Miami and Mangini would've had his job. Who knows what could've been.

I will take that any ****ing day over a QB who has a howitzer for an arm, who whines like a girl, who's a spoiled rotten bitch, who makes stupid comments regularly, who sulks alone on the sideline... you get the picture.

Cutler is not the second coming. I'm sick of some making out like he is.

[MOtorboat]

orton sucks plain and simple. griese got the nod over him, and so did grossman. screw all the 5 youtube higlights of the man. many say he has more wins than losses. B.S. teams win games not a single player. like i said earlier, ill support him but the guy sucks.

9-7 vs. 8-8.

You tell me which is better.

You are right about teams winning games, and your precious Cutler doesn't understand that. He hasn't even played in a postseason game since high school.

[tumbana]

9-7 vs. 8-8.

You tell me which is better.

You are right about teams winning games, and your precious Cutler doesn't understand that. He hasn't even played in a postseason game since high school.

You just contradicted yourself. If teams win games, then you wouldn't put all the blame on the 25 year old pro bowl QB. The Broncos were good on offense, horrible on defense and special teams. They went 8-8, go figure.

[tumbana]

To all the people who say Orton sucks, I won't disagree that he isn't the most physically gifted QB.

What I WILL say is-

Neither is Chad Pennington. Not by a long shot.

Chad has the arm strength of Brian Griese or Orton (or worse), had multiple surgeries on his shoulder, and isn't anything prototypical of a talented QB in speed or arm strength. What Penny lacked physically he makes up for it in mechanics and instinct.

Chad plays smart, is a leader, has heart and inspires his teammates.

Had the NYJ kept Chad and not gotten Farve, they would've been in the Playoffs and not Miami and Mangini would've had his job. Who knows what could've been.

I will take that any ****ing day over a QB who has a howitzer for an arm, who whines like a girl, who's a spoiled rotten bitch, who makes stupid comments regularly, who sulks alone on the sideline... you get the picture.

Cutler is not the second coming. I'm sick of some making out like he is.
Except the Broncos don't have Chad Pennington who has done well in his career before and is #1 all time or something like that in completion percentage. They have Kyle Orton. Favre is old and washed up, not to mention his arm was hanging by a thread. He was carrying the Jets before getting injured.

Last I checked, Favre in a HOF and has a ring. Elway was what you are describing early in his career, BTW. I guess you would rather have Chad Pennington than Elway.

[MOtorboat]

You just contradicted yourself. If teams win games, then you wouldn't put all the blame on the 25 year old pro bowl QB. The Broncos were good on offense, horrible on defense and special teams. They went 8-8, go figure.

I contradicted myself?

How? You're going to have to do a better job at explaining your arguments.

Unless I'm wrong, the losses mean as much as the wins. Giving Cutler all the credit for the wins and none of the credit for the losses is idiotic, so I really hope that's not where you're going.

[tumbana]

I contradicted myself?

How? You're going to have to do a better job at explaining your arguments.

Unless I'm wrong, the losses mean as much as the wins. Giving Cutler all the credit for the wins and none of the credit for the losses is idiotic, so I really hope that's not where you're going.

That's exactly where I am NOT going, But your post is basically calling Cutler a "loser" and it seems as though you are blaming him for the Broncos going 8-8. Unless you mean the opposite, than why did you say:


You are right about teams winning games, and your precious Cutler doesn't understand that. He hasn't even played in a postseason game since high school.

That's a contradiction. You are saying you agree that teams win games, but the next sentence seems like you are blaming Cutler or making him the reason why the Broncos have not made the playoffs with him.

[MOtorboat]

That's exactly where I am NOT going, But your post is basically calling Cutler a "loser" and it seems as though you are blaming him for the Broncos going 8-8. Unless you mean the opposite, than why did you say:

So, I called Cutler a loser? Please document where I did that. TIA/ I simply said that blame lays on his shoulders just as much as anyone else. If you read into my argument that I believe Cutler is a loser, then you read wrong. The Broncos lost. That's on his shoulders just as much as it is on Shanahan's. I hope you can comprehend that, because so far, you haven't.


That's a contradiction. You are saying you agree that teams win games, but the next sentence seems like you are blaming Cutler or making him the reason why the Broncos have not made the playoffs with him.

No, the blame extends to everyone including Cutler. Something you apparently fail to recognize.

[tumbana]

So, I called Cutler a loser? Please document where I did that. TIA/ I simply said that blame lays on his shoulders just as much as anyone else. If you read into my argument that I believe Cutler is a loser, then you read wrong. The Broncos lost. That's on his shoulders just as much as it is on Shanahan's. I hope you can comprehend that, because so far, you haven't.



No, the blame extends to everyone including Cutler. Something you apparently fail to recognize.


and your precious Cutler doesn't understand that. He hasn't even played in a postseason game since high school.

You do understand that singling out one player will make me think you are giving him the blame, right?

[MOtorboat]

You do understand that blaming the other players on the team will make me think you are avoiding giving him the blame, right?

[tumbana]

You do understand that blaming the other players on the team will make me think you are avoiding giving him the blame, right?

Except I haven't. All I said was " If teams win games, then you wouldn't put all the blame on the 25 year old pro bowl QB." Never singled out any other players.

[MOtorboat]

Except I haven't. All I said was " If teams win games, then you wouldn't put all the blame on the 25 year old pro bowl QB." Never singled out any other players.

So, they are all losers? Including Cutler, or excluding Cutler?

[Shazam!]

Except the Broncos don't have Chad Pennington who has done well in his career before and is #1 all time or something like that in completion percentage. They have Kyle Orton. Favre is old and washed up, not to mention his arm was hanging by a thread. He was carrying the Jets before getting injured.

Last I checked, Favre in a HOF and has a ring. Elway was what you are describing early in his career, BTW. I guess you would rather have Chad Pennington than Elway.

Thanks for totally ignoring every point I brought up.

I have no idea why Farve's overall status has anything to do with what I was saying. He was clearly not the answer for the Jets and was a bad idea. Pennington's formerly 1-15 team was in the playoffs, and his former Farve-led team was not, that is the point. Mangini never wanted him either. They wanted him only to put asses in the seats because the other team in their stadium, that they are like a red headed stepchild to, came off a Super Bowl win ironically against their own division rival.

No shit Denver has Kyle Orton. Like I didn't know that.

Elway also won more games early, was the #1 pick, harassed by the media and analysts for years, and played for a frustrating coach in a star-starved city. It isn't anywhere near the same. Sorry.

Your Jay Cutler fantasy is sickening already.

[tumbana]

Thanks for totally ignoring every point I brought up.

I have no idea why Farve's overall status has anything to do with what I was saying. He was clearly not the answer for the Jets and was a bad idea. Pennington's formerly 1-15 team was in the playoffs, and his former Farve-led team was not, that is the point. Mangini never wanted him either. They wanted him only to put asses in the seats because the other team in their stadium, that they are like a red headed stepchild to, came off a Super Bowl win ironically against their own division rival.
The Jets went from 4-12 to 9-7 so it's not like he didn't help at all. You forgot to mention Chad Pennington didn't single handedly make Ronnie Brown not miss a majority of the season like in 07, he did not single handedly make the Dolphins use the wildcat and confuse teams at times, he did not make their defense go from 26th in PPG to 9th or from 28th in YPG to 12th. He was also not the one and only offseason move they did. There was a change in the team around him along with management and coaching.



No shit Denver has Kyle Orton. Like I didn't know that.

Elway also won more games early, was the #1 pick, harassed by the media and analysts for years, and played for a frustrating coach in a star-starved city. It isn't anywhere near the same. Sorry.

Your Jay Cutler fantasy is sickening already.

Elway whined like a baby to have "his guy." He whined his way to Denver in the draft. He was an INT machine his first few years and did not reach his potential until 10 years into his career. In today's NFL especially with the fans and media how it is, he probably wouldn't have been given a chance by anyone especially the fans.

[Tempus Fugit]

Chris Williams is going to be at RT. Garza will also probably not start. You don't even know who is going to start.

Pace 33
Omileye 25
Kreutz 32
Beekman 25
Williams 23

If not Omileye, than either Shaffer or Garza, but regardlas Omileye is going to be the eventual starter there.

Don't tell me I am incorrect about my own team, please, your post was 100% false.

You were incorrect and my post wasn't 100% false. Now, anything else?

[tumbana]

You were incorrect and my post wasn't 100% false. Now, anything else?

I showed you why it was wrong. The line I posted is going to be the starting O line. The one you posted was not. Anything else?

[Northman]

The Bears have averaged 10 wins the last 4 years and have done so getting no respect from the media. All they do is get trashed. Even during their SB year they were getting hated on non-stop. I'd call from 7-9 where the Bears literally lost a majority of their starting defense, lost their starting RB, and used 3 different QBs to 9-7 is an improvement. They have done things to improve even more. The Vikings keep getting called SB favorites but when they finally made the payoffs with all of their talent by one game, they got booted out the first round at home.

The Bears get no love? Are you kidding me dude? Denver gets ZERO love. Hell even when Denver was leading the division last year no one wanted to give them any credit. Sure, they tanked in the end but to have been in that position with the worst possible defense is a testament to any coach.

[Northman]

He is not the best in the NFL, the best YOUNG TE in the NFL and has potential to be the best the next few years. Better downfield threat? Olsen had a QB who couldn't throw past 15 yards to save his life. He's got WR speed (4.45) in a 6'5 255lb body. He needs a QB who can make the throws like the ones I showed. He's going to be a monster.

Did it ever occur to you that Orton couldnt throw down the field because after about 1.5 seconds he would have a DT or DE in his face? This is what im trying to convey to you man. Your Qb is only going to be as good as the guys in front of him. When Orton takes the field this year he is going to think he is on vacation because he will actually have more than 2 seconds to scan the field. Jay on the other hand will find out how the other half lives when he ends up running for his life and zoning in on only 1 receiver who is triple covered.

[tumbana]

Did it ever occur to you that Orton couldnt throw down the field because after about 1.5 seconds he would have a DT or DE in his face? This is what im trying to convey to you man. Your Qb is only going to be as good as the guys in front of him. When Orton takes the field this year he is going to think he is on vacation because he will actually have more than 2 seconds to scan the field. Jay on the other hand will find out how the other half lives when he ends up running for his life and zoning in on only 1 receiver who is triple covered.

No, he got decent time to throw. Where there games or moments where he did not get much time? Of course. But games against the Panthers, Saints, Packers (2nd game), and more where he was getting SO much time to throw down field, time to wind up and all, he completely missed. They performed pretty decently and have been upgraded to go with a MUCH more mobile QB. If you honestly think Orton doesn't stare down his receivers, lol. I'll let him answer that for you. Cutler will not be "running for his life." That's a fact.

[tumbana]

The Bears get no love? Are you kidding me dude? Denver gets ZERO love. Hell even when Denver was leading the division last year no one wanted to give them any credit. Sure, they tanked in the end but to have been in that position with the worst possible defense is a testament to any coach.

I agree that the Broncos get no love either and that the Chargers always get their nuts hugged, but the Bears got nothing. No matter what they do, no matter how much they improve, the media will always have something to say. They went 9-7 last year, half a game out of the playoffs, lost the division by one game, yet the media acts like they went 4-12. They have an AMAZING offseason, close to as good as they could have done, and it is as if every move they made would do nothing to improve the team. Not by even one game. The Packers, who went 6-10 , did nothing but change defensive schemes and add a couple of rookies, but somehow "they're back."

"They have no WRs." They are young and talented. Unproven, but they should still have a chance to show what they've got with Cutler at QB. Doesn't mean they should be automatically be deemed garbage. It's not like the Bears are not already good at every other position on offense

"They have an aging defense." The average age of the defense is 27 years old and if DJ Moore wins the other starting CB job, it will be less. There are only two players over 30 and they are both 31, and also play in the front 7 where careers are longer than DBs. I don't see anyone talking about how the Vikings D is aging. They are much older.

Trust me, the Bears are hated on. The Packers and Vikings will ALWAYS be the media darlings of the NFCN. 2006 was proof of that. They were proving doubters wrong all year until the SB when they could finally say "we told you so"with that big smile on their faces when golden boy Peyton Manning finally got his ring. They had a struggling defense with Tommie Harris and Mike Brown out. Was it going to be "good Rex" or "bad Rex?" The Saints have too much fire power. And a bunch of other garbage.

[Shazam!]

Here we go again.

Please go to 'Other Football Talk' to profess your love for the Bears and Cutler as a QB god.

[WARHORSE]

They most definitely are talented. They just have not seen the field a whole lot nor had a QB like Cutler so obviously, nobody has actually seen that.

But you are able to discern the talent from that.......amazing. Produce first.........then I'll agree.


You can say the same for just about every team out there. Hanie is a nice young QB who has a similar playing style to Jay Cutler with his mobility and arm strength, while not as good, still serviceable from what I have seen.

No, not really. I'll name some: Oakland. KC. Vikings. Buffalo. Rams. Jets. Detroit. Denver. Miami....close. San Fran. Buccaneers. Texans. Browns.

Those teams dont see a noticeable dropoff. Teams that do, are Chicago, Philly, N.O., New England, Cards, Pittsburg, Chargers, etc, etc, etc.

Servicable Hanie is nothing like Cutler. Nothing. Dont kid yerself.

I'm just saying the pace he was setting showed he could be a viable WR since he will be a full time starter this time. He was not starting until the 2nd half of 08. His biggest asset is speed. He was missed literally 10 times while running free after toasting the CB. One game that stuck out was the Saints game. Hester had the Saints DBs beat by like 10 yards three times and Orton did not throw the ball anywhere close. That doesn't count passes 20+ yards. With him improving by leaps and bounds, being a full time starter, and having Cutler, he will do fine.

You should see an improvement. Should...... but lets let the gridiron determine that before we go annointing players on paper potential.

I saw more of Orton not trusting himself. Watching a lot of games, there were WRs running free over the middle and he would either hesitate, making it too late, or just not throw the ball. I did not see any sort of distrust. Just orton going with his instincts.

I gotta hand it to ya. Orton going on instincts. Thats alot to tell looking at a television screen.

Because the drop off is not very significant, which you shouldn't really be proud of considering Simms hasn't played in 2 years.

Right. No argument there. But these arent choirboys. We arent asking them to be Marino, Manning or Brady............not even Cutler.

But make no mistake about it: We did not trade Cutler thinking we were going to win now. We traded him because he did not want to be here so bad, he cut off communication with everyone including one of the classiest owners in the business. Adios was the message delivered to Jay.

For us, we were simply getting the most we could for a very talented thrower: Hes great at throwin footballs and tantrums.

What did we get? Two first rounders, a third rounder, and a veteran QB in Orton. Since Orton was starting, Id say thats around two firsts, a third and at least a second. And we need those picks to pay off for us to make up for losing our franchise QB. Otherwise, we eat dirt.

We took picks in place of his pouting, which promise us nothing but possibilities. That does not necessarily translate to wins for us NOW. But for us Broncos fans, Bowlen decided he'd rather have the picks than a QB with all the talent in the world but cant be respectful enough to answer a phone call from a very honorable, well respected throughout the league, classy, likeable owner. Cutler made it all about himself, and there you have it.........rather.........there you have him.

You of course, did trade for Cutler to win now. You gave up the potential future talent for talent known now. But even Marino, Manning, Elway and Montana couldnt win without talent. It takes a team, even with a gunslinger like Cutler. Remove him......the man you invested so much for................and youre quite a different team.



I hope he doesnt get injured. That would be catastrophic for Chicago.

[tumbana]

I hope he doesnt get injured. That would be catastrophic for Chicago.
And if Peyton Manning got injured, that would be catastrophic for the Colts. If the Packers lose Rodgers, that would be catastrophic for the Packers. Bottom line is if you have a star QB, it's logically going to be a drop off. Bottom line is Cutler isn't hurt and the Bears plan on him being in there all game, every game, unless the division is clinched :)

The Bears did not give up much at all, really, for what they got in return and the value they got in the draft. Essentially, they lost one first rounder in 2010 and that is the only thing they don't have for the future.

Kyle Orton essentially had no worth with the Bears. Cutler is their QB.

The 3rd round pick was due to an extra 3rd that the Bears got in compensation for Berrian, so it did not hurt as much to trade their own 3rd.

The 1st round pick this year got us a young, very talented QB who has shown he could perform in the NFL. Not to mention his very high ceiling. These are things the Bears have never had.

The Bears also get a 5th and drafted the overlooked Johnny Knox, who has impressed everyone this offseason. He has great hands and blazing speed. He may end up being the slot receiver if he continues to impress.

Now lets look at the VALUE the Bears got for their draft picks. (Traded down with the Seahawks)

3rd round: Jarron Gilbert (DT/DE): physical freak who was supposed to go high in the 2nd round. Dropped in the Bears' lap. Many experts believe if he played at a big school, he would have been a top 15 pick easy. With Marinelli coaching him, the sky's the limit.

3rd round: Juaquin Iglesias: WR with really good hands, runs solid routes, and is good after the catch. Was projected as a 2nd rounder. Gotten late in the 3rd.

4th round: Henry Melton (DE): Physical freak like Gilbert, but VERY raw. Bears drafted him hoping Marinelli could turn him into something.

4th round: DJ Moore (CB): Now this was a shocker. DJ Moore was projected to be a 1st rounder coming out of college. By draft time, he was said to be an early 2nd rounder, maybe late 1st. Absolute steal.

5th round: Knox (WR) already explained.

5th round: Marcus Freeman (LB): Another absolute steal. He was projected as a 2nd rounder but fell very far right into the Bears' laps. He has really good speed and strength. He is going to be on ST and be the heir of Lance Briggs until his time comes.

Now, looking at the actual value they got in their draft, and the fact that they also got Jay Cutler, just how much did they lose? Not as much as people think. They jeopardized no future. They actually made it brighter and why not? They got a very young and talented QB and a talented WR they could use.

EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point. The Broncos need Orton to be SOMETHING. He needs to be better than you think. Remember, Orton was the reason why McDaniels chose pick #18 over pick #13 and Jason Campbell. That higher pick would have given them back-to-back 1st rounders and possibly a chance to trade up with the 49'ers in order to get Raji.

[Poet]

Orton was going to be the starting QB this year.

To say he had no worth is pretty unbelievable.

[Thnikkaman]

And if Peyton Manning got injured, that would be catastrophic for the Colts. If the Packers lose Rodgers, that would be catastrophic for the Packers. Bottom line is if you have a star QB, it's logically going to be a drop off. Bottom line is Cutler isn't hurt and the Bears plan on him being in there all game, every game, unless the division is clinched :)

The Bears did not give up much at all, really, for what they got in return and the value they got in the draft. Essentially, they lost one first rounder in 2010 and that is the only thing they don't have for the future.

Kyle Orton essentially had no worth with the Bears. Cutler is their QB.

The 3rd round pick was due to an extra 3rd that the Bears got in compensation for Berrian, so it did not hurt as much to trade their own 3rd.

The 1st round pick this year got us a young, very talented QB who has shown he could perform in the NFL. Not to mention his very high ceiling. These are things the Bears have never had.

The Bears also get a 5th and drafted the overlooked Johnny Knox, who has impressed everyone this offseason. He has great hands and blazing speed. He may end up being the slot receiver if he continues to impress.

Now lets look at the VALUE the Bears got for their draft picks. (Traded down with the Seahawks)

3rd round: Jarron Gilbert (DT/DE): physical freak who was supposed to go high in the 2nd round. Dropped in the Bears' lap. Many experts believe if he played at a big school, he would have been a top 15 pick easy. With Marinelli coaching him, the sky's the limit.

3rd round: Juaquin Iglesias: WR with really good hands, runs solid routes, and is good after the catch. Was projected as a 2nd rounder. Gotten late in the 3rd.

4th round: Henry Melton (DE): Physical freak like Gilbert, but VERY raw. Bears drafted him hoping Marinelli could turn him into something.

4th round: DJ Moore (CB): Now this was a shocker. DJ Moore was projected to be a 1st rounder coming out of college. By draft time, he was said to be an early 2nd rounder, maybe late 1st. Absolute steal.

5th round: Knox (WR) already explained.

5th round: Marcus Freeman (LB): Another absolute steal. He was projected as a 2nd rounder but fell very far right into the Bears' laps. He has really good speed and strength. He is going to be on ST and be the heir of Lance Briggs until his time comes.

Now, looking at the actual value they got in their draft, and the fact that they also got Jay Cutler, just how much did they lose? Not as much as people think. They jeopardized no future. They actually made it brighter and why not? They got a very young and talented QB and a talented WR they could use.

EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point. The Broncos need Orton to be SOMETHING. He needs to be better than you think. Remember, Orton was the reason why McDaniels chose pick #18 over pick #13 and Jason Campbell. That higher pick would have given them back-to-back 1st rounders and possibly a chance to trade up with the 49'ers in order to get Raji.

QFT for when Cutler throws more INTs this year than he did last year. Cutler with his current state of mind is not the answer for any team.

[MasterShake]

And if Peyton Manning got injured, that would be catastrophic for the Colts. If the Packers lose Rodgers, that would be catastrophic for the Packers. Bottom line is if you have a star QB, it's logically going to be a drop off. Bottom line is Cutler isn't hurt and the Bears plan on him being in there all game, every game, unless the division is clinched :)

The Bears did not give up much at all, really, for what they got in return and the value they got in the draft. Essentially, they lost one first rounder in 2010 and that is the only thing they don't have for the future.

Kyle Orton essentially had no worth with the Bears. Cutler is their QB.

The 3rd round pick was due to an extra 3rd that the Bears got in compensation for Berrian, so it did not hurt as much to trade their own 3rd.

The 1st round pick this year got us a young, very talented QB who has shown he could perform in the NFL. Not to mention his very high ceiling. These are things the Bears have never had.

The Bears also get a 5th and drafted the overlooked Johnny Knox, who has impressed everyone this offseason. He has great hands and blazing speed. He may end up being the slot receiver if he continues to impress.

Now lets look at the VALUE the Bears got for their draft picks. (Traded down with the Seahawks)

3rd round: Jarron Gilbert (DT/DE): physical freak who was supposed to go high in the 2nd round. Dropped in the Bears' lap. Many experts believe if he played at a big school, he would have been a top 15 pick easy. With Marinelli coaching him, the sky's the limit.

3rd round: Juaquin Iglesias: WR with really good hands, runs solid routes, and is good after the catch. Was projected as a 2nd rounder. Gotten late in the 3rd.

4th round: Henry Melton (DE): Physical freak like Gilbert, but VERY raw. Bears drafted him hoping Marinelli could turn him into something.

4th round: DJ Moore (CB): Now this was a shocker. DJ Moore was projected to be a 1st rounder coming out of college. By draft time, he was said to be an early 2nd rounder, maybe late 1st. Absolute steal.

5th round: Knox (WR) already explained.

5th round: Marcus Freeman (LB): Another absolute steal. He was projected as a 2nd rounder but fell very far right into the Bears' laps. He has really good speed and strength. He is going to be on ST and be the heir of Lance Briggs until his time comes.

Now, looking at the actual value they got in their draft, and the fact that they also got Jay Cutler, just how much did they lose? Not as much as people think. They jeopardized no future. They actually made it brighter and why not? They got a very young and talented QB and a talented WR they could use.

EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point. The Broncos need Orton to be SOMETHING. He needs to be better than you think. Remember, Orton was the reason why McDaniels chose pick #18 over pick #13 and Jason Campbell. That higher pick would have given them back-to-back 1st rounders and possibly a chance to trade up with the 49'ers in order to get Raji.

Cutler is a good, sometimes great QB with all the skills in the world. What he is not, and what you should listen to when Denver fans try to tell you, is a leader. Saying the Bears are just a "Star QB" away from being a great team is more naive then us thinking we were one "Star DE" away from being great. Does Cutler make the Bears better? Sure. But he's not throwing to himself. He only makes you better at the QB position.

Bears fans should be happy to have Cutler, if he can mature he will be a great QB. As it stands right now, it seems like you have a lot of confidence that he is the answer for your team. That may be the case, we don't know, but as a Culter fan when he played for us I had that same confidence shaken each time he threw an interception in the endzone at a crucial point of the game.

And I'm just giving you a hard time, but if you are so confident in Cutler, why are you here telling us that you got the better end of the deal. Are you trying to convince us or yourself of that? :lol:

Good luck to the Bears this year, but better luck to the Broncos. I admire your passion for your team and I hope Cutler works out. But as much as I'm gonna miss his rocket arm, I'm not gonna miss him. Maybe when Orton is throwing up ducks, but not until then! :D

Come back around week 15 and we will see who got the better end of the deal. Its too early to tell now. Hell, we probably won't know for another 5-10 years. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the season with or without a Star QB because for the first time in a long time the Broncos seem to have a team.

[Shazam!]

"I wanted to bring up another point. The Broncos need Orton to be SOMETHING. He needs to be better than you think."

The Broncos won with Jake Plummer. Denver doesn't need Orton to play like a superstar. We need him to be a leader and play efficiently. If McD has the magic touch with QBs as billed, we will not see the same QB seen in Chicago. Not to mention he'll be surrounded by much better personnel, despite what Bears fans think.

[NameUsedBefore]

*Denver won with Jake Plummer, a consistent run game and an aggressive defense.

[LRtagger]

Orton was going to be the starting QB this year.

To say he had no worth is pretty unbelievable.

I think what he meant was SINCE they got Cutler, they no longer needed Orton.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

They have the last 2 years. They are paper champions every year. They will never live up to the undeserved hype. Not to mention they have horrible coaching.

Just like Arizona, right? I'm not one of those who think 1 player fixes things. It does take time for a team to be built. But when you add A Harvin to Chester and AP. Their D is still getting better and Henderson will be back at MLB.

[Shazam!]

*Denver won with Jake Plummer, a consistent run game and an aggressive defense.

The point is they didn't need a star QB to be a real contender.

Jake also didn't have the wideouts or the line Jay had.

They had a balanced team. Hopefully McD can produce that.

They don't need a top defense either. They need to be able to make the occassional stop and show up on 2nd and 22, something they couldn't do before.

Even improving the defense to middling mediocrity would be an improvement (sadly) from a botton-feeder and help win them some games.

I think Nolan will be up for the task.

Sometimes changing the scheme and playing to your strengths is all that is needed. Denver messed that up severely in 2007.

[tumbana]

The point is they didn't need a star QB to be a real contender.

Jake also didn't have the wideouts or the line Jay had.

They had a balanced team. Hopefully McD can produce that.

They don't need a top defense either. They need to be able to make the occassional stop and show up on 2nd and 22, something they couldn't do before.

Even improving the defense to middling mediocrity would be an improvement (sadly) from a botton-feeder and help win them some games.

I think Nolan will be up for the task.

Sometimes changing the scheme and playing to your strengths is all that is needed. Denver messed that up severely in 2007.

The Broncos had a top 10 D with Plummer.

[tumbana]

Cutler is a good, sometimes great QB with all the skills in the world. What he is not, and what you should listen to when Denver fans try to tell you, is a leader. Saying the Bears are just a "Star QB" away from being a great team is more naive then us thinking we were one "Star DE" away from being great. Does Cutler make the Bears better? Sure. But he's not throwing to himself. He only makes you better at the QB position.

Cutler sure has been a leader in his time here. He also was a leader in Denver or he wouldn't have been a captain after one year of starting. He had Marshall and Scheffler live with him so they could work out.

A good QB makes everyone around them better. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. Cutler will get more out of the Bears players than any QB the Bears have had in recent memory. He is the one who throws the ball. He's the one who connects with receivers in stride anywhere on the field. He is the one who keeps opposing Ds honest. Saying a good QB doesn't improve the players around him or get the most out of them is pretty naive if you ask me. Are the Bears one good QB away? IDK, but they did more than get a QB and are coming off a 9-7 season. They made moves and improvements as if they went 4-12 wihch shows how serious they are.


Bears fans should be happy to have Cutler, if he can mature he will be a great QB. As it stands right now, it seems like you have a lot of confidence that he is the answer for your team. That may be the case, we don't know, but as a Culter fan when he played for us I had that same confidence shaken each time he threw an interception in the endzone at a crucial point of the game.
He won't have the entire offense on his shoulders. He has players around him that will be utilized (cough run game cough) and he will also have a great special teams and solid turnover forcing defense. Not to mention I don't think the Bears call nothing but shotgun passes in the red zone.


And I'm just giving you a hard time, but if you are so confident in Cutler, why are you here telling us that you got the better end of the deal. Are you trying to convince us or yourself of that? :lol:

I'm just trying to explain how the Bears did not jeopardize any future. They got max value in their draft picks, more value than what their picks were worth. They did not make this move just to win now, but to also have a threat in the passing game for years to come.


Good luck to the Bears this year, but better luck to the Broncos. I admire your passion for your team and I hope Cutler works out. But as much as I'm gonna miss his rocket arm, I'm not gonna miss him. Maybe when Orton is throwing up ducks, but not until then! :D

Come back around week 15 and we will see who got the better end of the deal. Its too early to tell now. Hell, we probably won't know for another 5-10 years. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the season with or without a Star QB because for the first time in a long time the Broncos seem to have a team.
Good luck.

[tumbana]

Orton was going to be the starting QB this year.

To say he had no worth is pretty unbelievable.

I meant no worth to the Bears. We were getting Cutler so obviously, why would losing Orton be considered a big hit to the Bears? Of course he is worth something to the BRoncos or they wouldn't have ditched the #13 pick to get him.

[tumbana]

QFT for when Cutler throws more INTs this year than he did last year. Cutler with his current state of mind is not the answer for any team.

I will bet my left nut he doesn't throw anywhere near as man picks. There is no truth or basis for that statement. He and Kyle Orton had very similar INT% and turn the ball over at the same rate. Except Cutler wasn't in an offense that focused on NOT turning the ball over and had zero balance. Not to mention having the worst starting field position in the NFL and a defense that gave up 28 ppg and were the worst in the NFL at getting takeaways. Cutler is just the kind of QB that would thrive in the Bears offense.

If Cutler isn't the answer for anybody, then nearly a dozen teams would not have contacted Bowlen letting him know they are interested. There would not have been numerous teams willing to give at least two first round picks to acquire him.

But what do NFL personnel know? They should be getting their info from fans on message boards.

[tumbana]

Just like Arizona, right? I'm not one of those who think 1 player fixes things. It does take time for a team to be built. But when you add A Harvin to Chester and AP. Their D is still getting better and Henderson will be back at MLB.

And? They won the division by one, added a gimmick player, and now they're SB contenders? It's like this every year. The Bears did so much more than the Vikings did this offseason to vastly improve the team despite going 9-7. The Bears have a ton of talent young and veteran and made key coaching changes (Lovie running the D instead of Babich and the hiring of Marinelli). Every move they made improved the team. Every single on. Whether it was to upgrade a position or add depth. I never have feared the Vikings and I never will fear the Vikings. They are overrated and I don't get why people call the Bears an old team which is absolutely false and not look at the Viking and say the same thing which would be closer to the truth. Their defense is old. Not the Bears'. The Bears have an extremely young core on offense and a defense that averages 27 years old before a rookie might win a job.

And the Bears have a severe upper hand where it maters as well. Coaching.

[Shazam!]

"Cutler sure has been a leader in his time here."

Please stop it. He hasn't played a single game.

You act as if nobody here knows a damn thing about Cutler.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Gilbert didn't fall to the third round, he rose to the third round. He wasn't an early top two round talent value because he never played like one ever at SJSU. He was inconsistent against marginal competition and was drafted on upside and potential. Deep down, the guy is a puss-ball who shy'd away from contact and was manhandled by any decent offensive tackle he faced. FWIW, a lot of the other players you mention weren't thought of that highly either.

[WARHORSE]

And if Peyton Manning got injured, that would be catastrophic for the Colts. If the Packers lose Rodgers, that would be catastrophic for the Packers. Bottom line is if you have a star QB, it's logically going to be a drop off. Bottom line is Cutler isn't hurt and the Bears plan on him being in there all game, every game, unless the division is clinched :)

The Bears did not give up much at all, really, for what they got in return and the value they got in the draft. Essentially, they lost one first rounder in 2010 and that is the only thing they don't have for the future.

Kyle Orton essentially had no worth with the Bears. Cutler is their QB.

The 3rd round pick was due to an extra 3rd that the Bears got in compensation for Berrian, so it did not hurt as much to trade their own 3rd.

The 1st round pick this year got us a young, very talented QB who has shown he could perform in the NFL. Not to mention his very high ceiling. These are things the Bears have never had.

The Bears also get a 5th and drafted the overlooked Johnny Knox, who has impressed everyone this offseason. He has great hands and blazing speed. He may end up being the slot receiver if he continues to impress.

Now lets look at the VALUE the Bears got for their draft picks. (Traded down with the Seahawks)

3rd round: Jarron Gilbert (DT/DE): physical freak who was supposed to go high in the 2nd round. Dropped in the Bears' lap. Many experts believe if he played at a big school, he would have been a top 15 pick easy. With Marinelli coaching him, the sky's the limit.

3rd round: Juaquin Iglesias: WR with really good hands, runs solid routes, and is good after the catch. Was projected as a 2nd rounder. Gotten late in the 3rd.

4th round: Henry Melton (DE): Physical freak like Gilbert, but VERY raw. Bears drafted him hoping Marinelli could turn him into something.

4th round: DJ Moore (CB): Now this was a shocker. DJ Moore was projected to be a 1st rounder coming out of college. By draft time, he was said to be an early 2nd rounder, maybe late 1st. Absolute steal.

5th round: Knox (WR) already explained.

5th round: Marcus Freeman (LB): Another absolute steal. He was projected as a 2nd rounder but fell very far right into the Bears' laps. He has really good speed and strength. He is going to be on ST and be the heir of Lance Briggs until his time comes.

Now, looking at the actual value they got in their draft, and the fact that they also got Jay Cutler, just how much did they lose? Not as much as people think. They jeopardized no future. They actually made it brighter and why not? They got a very young and talented QB and a talented WR they could use.

EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point. The Broncos need Orton to be SOMETHING. He needs to be better than you think. Remember, Orton was the reason why McDaniels chose pick #18 over pick #13 and Jason Campbell. That higher pick would have given them back-to-back 1st rounders and possibly a chance to trade up with the 49'ers in order to get Raji.


Oh geez. Youre in a forum that could give a rip about the Beers trades and DAFT day flubs. We dont care Tumbana.

But you agree with me in this post where as you didnt agree with me in the other.

:coffee:

Make up your mind.

Losing Cutler to injury decimates you.

Losing Brady decimated the Pats.

Losing Manning would be......yes........irreparable, period.

We agree.

Losing Orton........no. Not at this point anyway.

Lets give him a go with McDaniels.

[tumbana]

Gilbert didn't fall to the third round, he rose to the third round. He wasn't an early top two round talent value because he never played like one ever at SJSU. He was inconsistent against marginal competition and was drafted on upside and potential. Deep down, the guy is a puss-ball who shy'd away from contact and was manhandled by any decent offensive tackle he faced. FWIW, a lot of the other players you mention weren't thought of that highly either.

No, he dropped. All experts say it was a steal. He had 9.5 sacks and 22 tackles for losses his senior year. All the pre-draft reports I am reading have him as a 2nd round pick. I can post them all if you'd like. Then you can show me where he rose rather than fell?

As for the other guys I mentioned, yes, they were thought highly of. DJ Moore was supposed to be a 1st round pick early in the offseason but them was expected to be picked either late 1st or early 2nd. Iglesias was projected as a 2nd rounder. Freeman was projected as a 2nd rounder. All these guys have a ton of talent and just fell to the Bears' laps.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I've followed the draft closely for years now, and I'm not going to bother wasting my time with you on value and player projects; but if you are fine with the Bears taking players that a majority of other teams devalued and passed up; good for you. On the real, I actually saw Gilbert play and know what I'm speaking about in regards to him. I can actually tell you the different formations and positions he actually played in college as well. Off-hand things, that more than likely you wouldn't even know without Kiper or McShay tidbits. My criticisms I listed are paraphrases from direct quotes of people who were either at his personal workouts or were allowed at Indianapolis at the combine. Last but not least, do I even need to point out the irony of a guy who "rose up the boards" -- yet didn't go as high as he was initially projected? There is a reason for it. Think about what I said above, maybe stroll over on the Bears forums for a little bit to center yourself, and then we can chat about it more. Then again, I have better things to discuss, so probably not. But you get the picture.

[tumbana]

I've followed the draft closely for years now, and I'm not going to bother wasting my time with you on value and player projects; but if you are fine with the Bears taking players that a majority of other teams devalued and passed up; good for you. On the real, I actually saw Gilbert play and know what I'm speaking about in regards to him. I can actually tell you the different formations and positions he actually played in college as well. Off-hand things, that more than likely you wouldn't even know without Kiper or McShay tidbits. My criticisms I listed are paraphrases from direct quotes of people who were either at his personal workouts or were allowed at Indianapolis at the combine. Last but not least, do I even need to point out the irony of a guy who "rose up the boards" -- yet didn't go as high as he was initially projected? There is a reason for it. Think about what I said above, maybe stroll over on the Bears forums for a little bit to center yourself, and then we can chat about it more. Then again, I have better things to discuss, so probably not. But you get the picture.
I don't care if you have been following the draft closely for years. All real football fans usually do. I have seen tape on him. I am aware of hat people say. Bottom line is he has a very high ceiling and has potential to be dominant. If anyone is going to get the most out of him, it's going to be the Bears coaching, especially Rod Marinelli, the best in the biz.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

YouTube highlights are not tape.

[tumbana]

YouTube highlights are not tape.

They are not youtube highlights. There is like nothing on him on youtube except him jumping out of a pool.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

They are not youtube highlights. There is like nothing on him on youtube except him jumping out of a pool.

Well, I'm glad SJSU was kind enough to send you some real tape! :lol: