Can you identify the missing running back?

[Tned]

Anyone notice someone "missing" from Elway's discussion of the running game?


850 KOA: What do you think this offense will look like this season? Will it look like what Broncos fans saw when they watched the Colts? Will it be a combination of different personnel groups?

JE: I think there’s a misconception out there a little about Peyton in that they (the Colts) didn’t run the football in Indianapolis. When they were successful in Indianapolis, they ran the football. What we’re looking for is balance. When we won the championships back in the 90’s, we had balance. Willis McGahee had a great year last year. (Mario) Fannin, the young kid we signed as a free agent last year out of Auburn, is coming back off a knee injury in camp. (He) looks good. And then (Ronnie) Hillman, who we drafted in the third round, is a guy that has big-play ability. I think you’re still going to see good balance. I think the misconception is that Peyton throws the ball all the time but when they were winning and doing well, they were top 12 in the league in rushing.

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mrice/koa-qa-elway-part-two/

[Ravage!!!]

Know-sho is getting a "No-sho" from Elway

[NightTerror218]

Know-sho is getting a "No-sho" from Elway

and Ball

[Ravage!!!]

and Ball

who?

[dogfish]

yep-- he pretty much throws spenser larsen right under the bus. . .


The bottom line is in short yardage, especially short yardage goal line, you need a fullback to lead it up in there. You don’t want to put a linebacker or another guard back there. That’s why we made the trade for (Chris) Gronkowski.


oh wait, you meant that turd knowshon. . . i'm guessing it was an honest mistake-- john's probably forgotten that moreno's on the team. . . understandable. . .

[Ravage!!!]

yep-- he pretty much throws spenser larsen right under the bus. . .




oh wait, you meant that turd knowshon. . . i'm guessing it was an honest mistake-- john's probably forgotten that moreno's on the team. . . understandable. . .

I think we all have

[underrated29]

I think we all have



not me:behindsofa:

[bcbronc]

Why would Elway mention Moreno when Moreno is still rehabing? Story of Moreno's career so far, no doubt, but I still feel he can be a helpful piece in a Faulk (NE) type role.

[TXBRONC]

As I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Moreno is released at some point before the start of the season.

[BroncoWave]

As I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Moreno is released at some point before the start of the season.

If he's healthy that wouldn't make much sense. His skillset fits in this offense well. Just because he hasn't lived up to the first round pick doesn't mean he can't play. With McGahee and Hillman, Moreno probably wouldn't get more than 8 touches or so a game but I think he could be effective in that role.

[TXBRONC]

If he's healthy that wouldn't make much sense. His skillset fits in this offense well. Just because he hasn't lived up to the first round pick doesn't mean he can't play. With McGahee and Hillman, Moreno probably wouldn't get more than 8 touches or so a game but I think he could be effective in that role.

If he indeed stays eight touches per game is rather anemic for guy who was the 11th overall pick in his draft class. As far as his health is concerned he will only be eight month removed from when he sustained his acl injury. Injuries like his usually take about a year for complete recovery. Again I wouldn't be surprised if doesn't make it out of camp.

[BroncoWave]

If he indeed stays eight touches per game is rather anemic for guy who was the 11th overall pick in his draft class.

This is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. You don't have to play like a first rounder to contribute to a football team! It's not his fault he was drafted higher than he should have been. For his career he averages 4.1 YPC, 9.0 YPRec, and has 18 touchdowns in 3 seasons. No that's not first round production, but it's not bad at all for a 3rd down/change of pace back. It seriously blows my mind why people think we should dump him because he hasn't performed like a 1st round pick. If we'd picked him in the 3rd round and he'd had this exact same production not a single one of you would want him cut. How hypocritical is that?

Now your injury angle is fair, but he is most of the way to that year now. If he has to miss some games but can come on strong during the season there is no reason to cut him.

[TXBRONC]

This is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. You don't have to play like a first rounder to contribute to a football team! It's not his fault he was drafted higher than he should have been. For his career he averages 4.1 YPC, 9.0 YPRec, and has 18 touchdowns in 3 seasons. No that's not first round production, but it's not bad at all for a 3rd down/change of pace back. It seriously blows my mind why people think we should dump him because he hasn't performed like a 1st round pick. If we'd picked him in the 3rd round and he'd had this exact same production not a single one of you would want him cut. How hypocritical is that?

Now your injury angle is fair, but he is most of the way to that year now. If he has to miss some games but can come on strong during the season there is no reason to cut him.

No it's not irrelevant. You don't draft a guy that high just to be a bit player.

It blows my mind when people think they have only valid opinion. Maybe you're aware of this yet but honestly you don't know everything there is know about football.

Btw Moreno was expected to go where we took him in the draft. I guess you also forgot he gets paid like first rounder.

[BroncoWave]

No it's not irrelevant. You don't draft a guy that high just to be a bit player.

It blows my mind when people think they have only valid opinion. Maybe you're aware of this yet but honestly you don't know everything there is know about football.

Btw Moreno was expected to go where we took him in the draft. I guess you also forgot he gets paid like first rounder.

When you give a valid reason as to why it's relevant I'll consider your opinion. The contract isn't a valid answer. He is making $885K this season. That's nothing for a #3 RB.

You don't get rid of a productive player just because he hasn't performed up to where he was drafted. If you were the GM you'd have probably gotten rid of Ayers too, huh? He didn't live up to being a first rounder early on but now he is becoming a very solid player.

You act like Moreno is a completely useless player. His running improved every year with the Broncos and he has always been a good pass catcher. It just blows my mind that you'd want to get rid of him because he doesn't play like a first rounder.

[Superchop 7]

Its dollars and sense, Moreno needs to restructure the deal or hit the road. I think Fannin is solid enough to take his spot.

[Chef Zambini]

JE talked about 'balance' no wonder he omitted konow-show because he has terrible balance.
regardless of where he was drafted and what he gests paid, moreno has been a huge disapointment! I would hope we have better to fill his roster spot! ACL injury equals PUP list ! i said so 3 months ago !

too expensive to cut. to incompetent to take a roster spot.
PUP

[TXBRONC]

When you give a valid reason as to why it's relevant I'll consider your opinion. The contract isn't a valid answer. He is making $885K this season. That's nothing for a #3 RB.

You don't get rid of a productive player just because he hasn't performed up to where he was drafted. If you were the GM you'd have probably gotten rid of Ayers too, huh? He didn't live up to being a first rounder early on but now he is becoming a very solid player.

You act like Moreno is a completely useless player. His running improved every year with the Broncos and he has always been a good pass catcher. It just blows my mind that you'd want to get rid of him because he doesn't play like a first rounder.

We'll then you're naive because players like Moreno get cut all the time.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Is this a trick question?

[BroncoWave]

Well you actually do something in life then I might consider you have maybe something more mouthiness to contribute.

While you're sitting up on that high horse of yours just note that you started the personal attacks in post #13. What I've accomplished in life has nothing to do with my football knowledge. That's a nice deflection of me blowing holes in all of your points though.

[TXBRONC]

While you're sitting up on that high horse of yours just note that you started the personal attacks in post #13. What I've accomplished in life has nothing to do with my football knowledge. That's a nice deflection of me blowing holes in all of your points though.

In your mind yes, in reality not even close.

[BroncoWave]

In your mind yes, in reality not even close.

Also for the record I even gave you credit for your injury angle in the post before you started personally attacking me. Look at your own posting while sitting up on that high horse.

[cmc0605]

I really don't get the Moreno hate. When he's on the field, he has been rather valuable, especially considering that the time he has spent in Denver has always been with below average QBs and suspect blocking up front. There are reasons to believe that will all change this year. But let's look at the numbers back in 2010 when he played almost a full season. I've listed the numbers for Moreno and all the other RB's combined (predominately Buckhalter, Ball, and some Maroney; this does not include carries by QBs or WR reverses, etc).

The first number is carries, the second is yards, and then the third column is TDs. Dashed lines indicate no play that week. Note that with the exception of one or two weeks, when Moreno was not on the field, we had virtually ZERO run game. Nothing.

Moreno
Game 1: 15, 60, 1
Game 2: 24, 51, 1
Game 3: -------------
Game 4: ------------
Game 5: ------------
Game 6: 12, 48
Game 7: 14, 53
Game 8: 11, 40
Game 9: 22, 106
Game 10: 13, 58, 1
Game 11: 12, 56, 1
Game 12: 23, 161
Game 13: 19, 81, 1
Game 14: 4, 5
Game 15: 7, 19
Game 16: 6, 41

(average of 4.3 yards per carry)

All other RBs
Game 1: 7, 27
Game 2: 11, 19, 1
Game 3: 16, 36
Game 4: 17, 8
Game 5: 13, 39
Game 6: 14, 39
Game 7: ------------
Game 8: -----------
Game 9: ------------
Game 10: 1, 1
Game 11: 5, 43
Game 12: -------------
Game 13: 8, 38
Game 14: 21, 23
Game 15: 16, 80, 1
Game 16: 9, 29

(average of 2.8 yards per carry)


Now, we can all agree that Buckhalter, Ball, Maroney, etc are not your top of the line RBs (and not as productive as McGahee was last year). However, the absolutely dismal production from everyone else indicates to me that there was some fundamental problems associated with the o-line, QB, etc which is not completely the running backs fault. That is for 2010. Last year, in 2011, Moreno had well over four yards a carry before he was injured early in the season. Of course, McGahee also did things no one expected, and we're all happy to have him on the team. But the idea here is not to pick the best back, but rather ask whether Moreno can serve as a suitable supplement to the RB rotation, and whether he could come in if other guys went down and perform well. Even if he is is not living up to #11 draft pick status, if he is a better #2 runningback than anyone else on the roster, than he should be the #2 runningback. Of course, if he was getting Adrian Peterson money, that argument would not hold, but Moreno is not being paid enough to significantly alter the fundamental fact of football that the depth chart should be representative of the hierarchy of talent on the team. I have not seen any evidence that anyone on our depth chart except for McGahee is better equipped than Moreno for the top job.

Now I think we can all agree Moreno's numbers aren't what you want from a #11 pick. However, they are not bad whatsoever, and the idea that Moreno can't contribute as a very good #2 or #3 back is completely indefensible. With Manning, he could even be a #1 back if McGahee went down since defenses now need to respect the pass significantly more. And the above numbers don't include anything about receiving. We all know Moreno can make plays in the receiving game. This is a critical element to a Peyton-led offense. In fact, Moreno may be a top 10 back in the league when it comes to the receiving element, and this should not be discounted.

[GEM]

Alright, TX went back and edited his posts on his own. Let's stick to the topic now.

[BroncoWave]

Now I think we can all agree Moreno's numbers aren't what you want from a #11 pick. However, they are not bad whatsoever, and the idea that Moreno can't contribute as a very good #2 or #3 back is completely indefensible. With Manning, he could even be a #1 back if McGahee went down since defenses now need to respect the pass significantly more. And the above numbers don't include anything about receiving. We all know Moreno can make plays in the receiving game. This is a critical element to a Peyton-led offense. In fact, Moreno may be a top 10 back in the league when it comes to the receiving element, and this should not be discounted.

Clearly according to our resident football expert here it' not acceptable for a first rounder to be a #2 or #3 RB. Why keep talent on you roster if they're aren't quite living up to their draft pick?

[TXBRONC]

Also for the record I even gave you credit for your injury angle in the post before you started personally attacking me. Look at your own posting while sitting up on that high horse.

I read the post.

The reality is players Moreno get cut all the time. In your opinion he's been real productive, but in my opinion he hasn't. He's replaceable.

[BroncoWave]

I read the post.

The reality is players Moreno get cut all the time. In your opinion he's been real productive, but in my opinion he hasn't. He's replaceable.

I never said he's not replaceable. I just questioned your logic for why we should get rid of him. We've probably both been a little harsh in this thread though. Our #3 RB shouldn't be any reason to get into this heated a debate! :lol:

[TXBRONC]

I never said he's not replaceable. I just questioned your logic for why we should get rid of him. We've probably both been a little harsh in this thread though. Our #3 RB shouldn't be any reason to get into this heated a debate! :lol:

Agreed.

[broncobryce]

Jeremiah Johnson?

[Simple Jaded]

JE talked about 'balance' no wonder he omitted konow-show because he has terrible balance.
Lmfao.

That's the thing about Moreno, the people who say he sucks and a complete waste of a premium draft pick are right and the people who say he may be a better fit for the role he might take in the new offense are right. I wouldn't count on him seeing the field other than ST's unless Hillman gets hurt but, for once, I'm actually looking forward to watching him this season.

I hope the Broncos keep him for depth, he's better than Johnson and Ball. This offense is exactly what he needed cause he's garbage in a feature role.......

[Ravage!!!]

Lmfao.

That's the thing about Moreno, the people who say he sucks and a complete waste of a premium draft pick are right and the people who say he may be a better fit for the role he might take in the new offense are right. I wouldn't count on him seeing the field other than ST's unless Hillman gets hurt but, for once, I'm actually looking forward to watching him this season.

I hope the Broncos keep him for depth, he's better than Johnson and Ball. This offense is exactly what he needed cause he's garbage in a feature role.......

Exactly right. We have to re-identify Moreno as something else OTHER than what we would expect from a first round RB. He's never going to be a feature back, and he's never goign to be the guy that carries your team. HOWEVER...he's on the roster. This may VERY well be exactly what he needs to be a very viable option from the backfield. SCREW the fact that he was taken in the first round, and judge him PURELY on what he could possible offer this offense.

Its hard to do, since so many people tried to shove Moreno down our throats since before he was drafted. But thats over. He didn't draft himself, and we ALL k now he's never ever ever going to be a feature RB in the NFL. But he just might be a very good back for Manning as a role-filler.

[Chef Zambini]

We'll then you're naive because players like Moreno get cut all the time.no, not players will his contract! his salary this rea is cheap, but his cap number, if we cut him is over 3 million dollars. thats money we cant spend on other players! thats why its better to put him on PUP if we cant trade him! and who the F would want him, JMCD ?

[Jsteve01]

Andy Reid got or gave a 4th for Lorezo Booker a few years ago. And he'd done nothing to that point in his career. 4th for Moreno would be about right. And I think if Johnson shows the way he did last year he becomes expendable. I'm still not sold on Fanin. Who has horrid vision and puts the ball on the ground . After he ran a sub 4.4 forty people became obsessed and forgot about his utter lack of production in college. I hope he proves me wrong. Johnson has far better vision and had an extensive body of work at Oregon.

[Chef Zambini]

i dont think anybody is willing to give us a 4th for moreno coming off an ACL injury and surgery.
if he was 100% healthy then maybe there would be some idiot out there that would tender a 4th for his mediocre talent.
remeber matt millen is retired, and JMCD does not make personnel decisions anymore.

[Cugel]

Exactly right. We have to re-identify Moreno as something else OTHER than what we would expect from a first round RB. He's never going to be a feature back, and he's never goign to be the guy that carries your team. HOWEVER...he's on the roster. This may VERY well be exactly what he needs to be a very viable option from the backfield. SCREW the fact that he was taken in the first round, and judge him PURELY on what he could possible offer this offense.

Its hard to do, since so many people tried to shove Moreno down our throats since before he was drafted. But thats over. He didn't draft himself, and we ALL k now he's never ever ever going to be a feature RB in the NFL. But he just might be a very good back for Manning as a role-filler.

If Moreno were getting paid a lot of money at this point in his contract then there'd be a reason to cut him. But, he's not.

He's already been paid all his signing bonus. He's not earning that much.

Since Elway has ZERO invested in Knowshon he's going to have to prove he's better than Lance Ball to make this team. He might do it, but it's not a gimmie, especially with his injury.

Just another wasted McMoron draft pick which makes every Broncos fan hate him. But, truly it isn't his fault. He hasn't been arrested for assaulting his baby-momma or waving his gun at police, or been caught at the airport with the "Original Whizzinator" (like Onterio Smith).

He's just a very pedestrian RB who was drafted 2 or 3 rounds ahead of where he should have been, and is hurt a lot. So, he could very well make the team. But, he's not going to start baring a LOT of injuries.

[Cugel]

no, not players will his contract! his salary this rea is cheap, but his cap number, if we cut him is over 3 million dollars. thats money we cant spend on other players! thats why its better to put him on PUP if we cant trade him! and who the F would want him, JMCD ?

I don't know exactly what his signing bonus was. He's earned his second year roster bonus and most of his guaranteed money:


8/7/2009: Signed a five-year, $16.7 million contract. The deal contains $13.125 million guaranteed, including a second-year roster bonus of $3.775 million. Another $6.3 million is available through incentives. The Broncos can exercise an option year in 2014 by paying Moreno $5.08 million. 2012: $855,000, 2013: $1.7 million, 2014: Club Option, 2015: Free Agent


From that it looks like his cap hit is $1,870,000 per season times two years remaining on his contract = $3.6 million or so.

So, perhaps I was wrong. His salary isn't that great, but the cap hit from getting rid of him is rather large this season. I'd say they keep him unless he just sucks or is too injured to be effective, and then they bite the bullet and get rid of him.