Is Bowlen trashing the season?

[lex]

Is he trying to get rid of what he seems to think are the bad apples even at the expense of trashing the season? Like Ive been saying, a lot of this seems more and more to go back to Bowlen.

[Tned]

Is he trying to get rid of what he seems to think are the bad apples even at the expense of trashing the season? Like Ive been saying, a lot of this seems more and more to go back to Bowlen.

If that was the case, I don't think Bowlen would have mildly thrown McDaniels under the bus with the "he's made rookie mistakes" comment.

[lex]

If that was the case, I don't think Bowlen would have mildly thrown McDaniels under the bus with the "he's made rookie mistakes" comment.

You dont think Pat is the slightest bit impulsive...given to suddenly go in another direction on a whim? This firing Shanahan thing didnt really seem very well thought out.

[Tned]

You dont think Pat is the slightest bit impulsive...given to suddenly go in another direction on a whim? This firing Shanahan thing didnt really seem very well thought out.

It would be wild, unsubstantiated speculation on my part (or anyone else that isn't in the Broncos front office) to state that it wasn't well thought out.

[lex]

It would be wild, unsubstantiated speculation on my part (or anyone else that isn't in the Broncos front office) to state that it wasn't well thought out.

By someone like Joe Ellis perhaps but not Pat Bowlen.

[rationalfan]

it also feels more than coincidental that the two players whom bowlen (supposedly) agreed to trade are two rising stars due new contracts in the near future.

it's not a pleasant thought for idealists assuming winning is everything, but given the economy money is probably the paramount issue right now for bowlen (and many sports franchise owners).

[lex]

it also feels more than coincidental that the two players whom bowlen (supposedly) agreed to trade are two rising stars due new contracts in the near future.
it's not a pleasant thought for idealists assuming winning is everything, but given the economy money is probably the paramount issue right now for bowlen (and many sports franchise owners).

and also dont forget that money was the possible motive for trading the 1st round pick to take Smith.

[nevcraw]

Yes, Bowlen has decided to reward Seattle's efforts with a nice shiny top 5 pick..

[Shazam!]

Why would Bowlen be 'trashing the season', you say that as if he doesn't want to win.

McDaniels, love him or hate him was one, or the, highest profile candidates out there with winning potential and key to QBs. He was the hottest coordinator up for coach, as one happens every year. We should be thankful that Bowlen went snd got us the hot available guy.

The Cutler thing wasn't Bowlen's fault.

Marshall is a health risk and his off the field antics should concern any organization to commit to him with a big investment. While he still has a year under his belt too. Why cater to him when he was considering being suspended?

This isn't a character guy like Rod Smith here.

Two primmadonna babies wanting out is not Bowlen's fault.

The stupid speculations and the whining is pathetic.

[Greatspirits]

Nah, he's cleansing it!

[MOtorboat]

Why would Bowlen be 'trashing the season', you say that as if he doesn't want to win.

McDaniels, love him or hate him was one, or the, highest profile candidates out there with winning potential and key to QBs. He was the hottest coordinator up for coach, as one happens every year. We should be thankful that Bowlen went snd got us the hot available guy.

The Cutler thing wasn't Bowlen's fault.

Marshall is a health risk and his off the field antics should concern any organization to commit to him with a big investment. While he still has a year under his belt too. Why cater to him when he was considering being suspended?

This isn't a character guy like Rod Smith here.

Two primmadonna babies wanting out is not Bowlen's fault.

The stupid speculations and the whining is pathetic.

Well, you know, McDaniels is no Steve Spagnuolo.

[broncfn90]

ya he is.... pat never ran the team it was all shanny to the ticket prices to parking prices

[MOtorboat]

ya he is.... pat never ran the team it was all shanny to the ticket prices to parking prices

lol.

[Superchop 7]

Bowlen has no clue what he is doing.

He allowed Joe Ellis to ruin this franchise.

What we have is a good offensive co-ordinator (McDaniels) and a good defensive co-ordinator (Nolan)

We do not have a head coach, I would strip that title in a heartbeat, there are certain people that are head coaches, Josh isn't one of them.

We do not have a quality front office, what we have are the three stooges.

Pat had good intentions but bad advice.

He has been an owner for a long time, but that was then and this is now, the buck stops at his desk......

He needs to be a leader.....not a follower.

He needs to fix this mess.

[slim]

LOL...might want to let the coach a game before you say we "don't have a head coach".

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I will be posting the following in a few of the Marshall threads:

Here is a video - Gary Miller speaking on the Marshall situation. Gary stated that when Marshall put up what he did on his website - he did NOT put up the following - which Bowlen said to him:

"Stay out of trouble and perform well on the field, and he will get his deal right here next year"

Miller's take - Brandon Marshall wants to leave so he can get his money right now.

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=58461@kcnc.dayport.com

[LRtagger]

It's funny, we can all play with Bowlen's money like it's no big deal "Go out and sign this guy, give Brandon a new contract, etc"

But let's all try to look at this objectively and not as fans. If you are Pat Bowlen and you have a player like Brandon Marshall that is a very VERY risky investment...would you be willing to sink $50 million over a span of 6 years into that investment? Are you confident enough in Brandon not getting suspended and consistently putting up numbers every year to invest that type of money in him?

Watch the video Carol posted. It makes perfect sense. Pat is not out of his mind here and Brandon has no problem with McDaniels or the new offense (not sure why everyone thinks this is McDaniels' fault). This is a matter of investing money into something Pat thinks is too great of a risk. I have no question he wants to keep Brandon in Denver, but I also have no question he does not want to blow what would probably have to be $20mil guaranteed on something that has a 50/50 probability of panning out.

If Brandon weren't such a risk, he would be making top 10 money no questions asked.

[lex]

It's funny, we can all play with Bowlen's money like it's no big deal "Go out and sign this guy, give Brandon a new contract, etc"

But let's all try to look at this objectively and not as fans. If you are Pat Bowlen and you have a player like Brandon Marshall that is a very VERY risky investment...would you be willing to sink $50 million over a span of 6 years into that investment? Are you confident enough in Brandon not getting suspended and consistently putting up numbers every year to invest that type of money in him?

Watch the video Carol posted. It makes perfect sense. Pat is not out of his mind here and Brandon has no problem with McDaniels or the new offense (not sure why everyone thinks this is McDaniels' fault). This is a matter of investing money into something Pat thinks is too great of a risk. I have no question he wants to keep Brandon in Denver, but I also have no question he does not want to blow what would probably have to be $20mil guaranteed on something that has a 50/50 probability of panning out.

If Brandon weren't such a risk, he would be making top 10 money no questions asked.

Actually, Bowlen has profited tremendously from being lucky to have a stalwart fanbase. In exchange, people are entitled to expect something in return. Players can have a variety of reasons for not buying in, or whatever and some of them are valid.

[Shazam!]

Actually, Bowlen has profited tremendously from being lucky to have a stalwart fanbase. In exchange, people are entitled to expect something in return...

Bowlen has shelled out MILLIONS in getting the players that were asked for by Shanahan and now McDaniels. So what if he makes a profit? If the Broncos need it he will spend it. He practically gives a blank check. The guy wants to win. Anyone who seriously doubts this hasn't followed this team for any reasonable length of time or is just insane.

[lex]

Bowlen has shelled out MILLIONS in getting the players that were asked for by Shanahan and now McDaniels. So what if he makes a profit? If the Broncos need it he will spend it. He practically gives a blank check. The guy wants to win. Anyone who seriously doubts this hasn't followed this team for any reasonable length of time or is just insane.

Yeah, I know Bowlen used to be a good owner but more recently he has had a case of Bob Kraft envy and is trying to replicate the business model that attempts to get players to play for less than what theyre worth.

[CoachChaz]

Insanity

[Shazam!]

Yeah, I know Bowlen used to be a good owner but more recently he has had a case of Bob Kraft envy and is trying to replicate the business model that attempts to get players to play for less than what theyre worth.

What are you talking about play for less than what they're worth? Did you say that when John Elway took a pay cut and Neil Smith came here for less money because he wanted to win, Bowlen went out and got everyone Shanahan asked for and practically rebuilt half the team through free agency? Bowlen shells out the cash whenever asked for. What a selective memory some have.

Marshall has injury and character questions and off the field issues. He is no position to make demands. He is not bigger than this team.

[roomemp]

Yeah, I know Bowlen used to be a good owner but more recently he has had a case of Bob Kraft envy and is trying to replicate the business model that attempts to get players to play for less than what theyre worth.

Two things......Thats business in every walk of life......And that is the effects of a recession.

[powderaddict]

Yeah, I know Bowlen used to be a good owner but more recently he has had a case of Bob Kraft envy and is trying to replicate the business model that attempts to get players to play for less than what theyre worth.

You mean the model that has produced 3 Superbowl championships this decade alone?

I don't know why in the world he'd be interested in that model :rolleyes:

He should continue overpaying free agents and rewarding me first attitudes. It's worked well for the Broncos this decade :salute:

[lex]

You mean the model that has produced 3 Superbowl championships this decade alone?

I don't know why in the world he'd be interested in that model :rolleyes:

He should continue overpaying free agents and rewarding me first attitudes. It's worked well for the Broncos this decade :salute:

The Patriots got lucky on Tom Brady. Its as simple as that. Theyve had a good defense that has veterans who have been willing to play for less than what they have been worth. There was even a point in time when Tom Brady was underpaid after working a new deal.

Do you think that if the Pats dont get lucky on a 6th round pick, they are still winning SBs by virtue of their business model? The previous era of QBs left a void where quality QBs concerned. Thats how theyve been winning.

[lex]

Two things......Thats business in every walk of life......And that is the effects of a recession.

Sorry but as soon as Pat starts discounting ticket prices, hell have that as an excuse. Until then, he has expectations to live up to. If he cant, he should just sell the team. Its worth a billion dollars, after all.

[lex]

What are you talking about play for less than what they're worth? Did you say that when John Elway took a pay cut and Neil Smith came here for less money because he wanted to win, Bowlen went out and got everyone Shanahan asked for and practically rebuilt half the team through free agency? Bowlen shells out the cash whenever asked for. What a selective memory some have.

Marshall has injury and character questions and off the field issues. He is no position to make demands. He is not bigger than this team.

Ive already responded to this point.

[roomemp]

Sorry but as soon as Pat starts discounting ticket prices, hell have that as an excuse. Until then, he has expectations to live up to. If he cant, he should just sell the team. Its worth a billion dollars, after all.


This is not Madden and Bowlen doesn't payout contracts with Monopoly money. This is real life situations. I think a lot of fans forget that.

[lex]

This is not Madden and Bowlen doesn't payout contracts with Monopoly money. This is real life situations. I think a lot of fans forget that.

Its not all about Bowlen. Its also about the fans and it seems moreso the case that Bowlen has forgotten that; if he is going to not make the effort to win this year.

[roomemp]

I think you need a reality check dude. I can't believe you are questioning Bowlen's desire to win. Perfect example, Bowlen felt that Shanny wasn't getting the job done so he fired him midway through his contract. Look at all that dead money Bowlen has to pay Shanny. Did you forget that?

[NightTrainLayne]

The Patriots got lucky on Tom Brady. Its as simple as that. Theyve had a good defense that has veterans who have been willing to play for less than what they have been worth. There was even a point in time when Tom Brady was underpaid after working a new deal.

Do you think that if the Pats dont get lucky on a 6th round pick, they are still winning SBs by virtue of their business model? The previous era of QBs left a void where quality QBs concerned. Thats how theyve been winning.

The Broncos got lucky picking up TD where they did. Without him they probably don't win those two SB's.

The Broncos got unlucky losing him so early to injury. Maybe if he was healthy for another three years we win another one.

Luck is everywhere. The key is to be in the position to take advantage of it when it smiles upon you. We have had so many holes for the past few years that even the best of luck wouldn't allow for us to get to the pinnacle again, and as such some bad luck (like 6 RBs on IR) could kill us quickly.

[powderaddict]

The Patriots got lucky on Tom Brady. Its as simple as that. Theyve had a good defense that has veterans who have been willing to play for less than what they have been worth. There was even a point in time when Tom Brady was underpaid after working a new deal.

Do you think that if the Pats dont get lucky on a 6th round pick, they are still winning SBs by virtue of their business model? The previous era of QBs left a void where quality QBs concerned. Thats how theyve been winning.

Right, all you need is an underpaid, good QB.

Tell me how that worked out for the Broncos the last 2 years?

[Thnikkaman]

Nope.

[Dean]

Right, all you need is an underpaid, good QB.

Tell me how that worked out for the Broncos the last 2 years?


I think we may have forgot the defensive part of the equation somewhere along the way.

[Nature Boy]

We are in full rebuild mode.

.

[Lonestar]

We are in full rebuild mode.

.


DA what part of the off season have you missed.. it should have been 3-4 years ago.. but someone was to busy tryin to remodel instead....

[Nature Boy]

DA what part of the off season have you missed.. it should have been 3-4 years ago.. but someone was to busy tryin to remodel instead....

Wait til we win less than 5 games this season.

We never rebuilt with Shanahan, we only reloaded and that we did. We had a Super Bowl caliber offense, we only needed to reload on the defense(D-line) but Pat Bowlen pretty much trashed the team, is on full rebuild mode now and we haven't addressed the D-line situation that was the problem last season.

.

[Lonestar]

Wait til we win less than 5 games this season.

We never rebuilt with Shanahan, we only reloaded and that we did. We had a Super Bowl caliber offense, we only needed to reload on the defense(D-line) but Pat Bowlen pretty much trashed the team, is on full rebuild mode now and we haven't addressed the D-line situation that was the problem last season.

.


yep that super bowl offense retired over the years following them.. since then this team has hardly been a balanced team whatsoever..

Pat was about 4 years to late in making the move he did this year.. so did he trash this team perhaps by his inaction in stopping mike from driving it into the ground

[GEM]

Wait til we win less than 5 games this season.

We never rebuilt with Shanahan, we only reloaded and that we did. We had a Super Bowl caliber offense, we only needed to reload on the defense(D-line) but Pat Bowlen pretty much trashed the team, is on full rebuild mode now and we haven't addressed the D-line situation that was the problem last season.

.

And where exactly did reloading us get? :confused: If I remember correctly we haven't won an AFCW title the last 3 years, we got blown out of the playoffs minus 1 year, and our defense is worse than some high school 3A teams..

If that's reloaded, I'll take that game of roulette...the odds of hitting something are almost NIL.

[Dean]

yep that super bowl offense retired over the years following them.. since then this team has hardly been a balanced team whatsoever..

Pat was about 4 years to late in making the move he did this year.. so did he trash this team perhaps by his inaction in stopping mike from driving it into the ground


Why was Pat 4 years too late? We are 37 and 27 over the last four years.

In my opinion, many have their expectations too high. With a 16 game season the very definition of an average team is an 8 and 8 season. The fans for some teams would celebrate even one 8-8 season. However, IMO in an attempt to rebuild and to abandone restocking by free-agency without a 2 to 4 win season Shanahan is crucified for having an 8-8 average over his last 3 years. He accomplished this with a phenominal amount of injuries over the last two years.

I honestly think that this year we will see what Shanahan was trying to avoid. I hope not, but one way or the other the dye is cast.

[Nature Boy]

yep that super bowl offense retired over the years following them.. since then this team has hardly been a balanced team whatsoever..

Pat was about 4 years to late in making the move he did this year.. so did he trash this team perhaps by his inaction in stopping mike from driving it into the ground

We only missed the Super Bowl by 1 game where our defense was unable to stop Ben Rothlisburger but not many teams have been able to do so since he entered the league.

.

[Nature Boy]

And where exactly did reloading us get? :confused: If I remember correctly we haven't won an AFCW title the last 3 years, we got blown out of the playoffs minus 1 year, and our defense is worse than some high school 3A teams..

If that's reloaded, I'll take that game of roulette...the odds of hitting something are almost NIL.


How long will you give McDummass to take us to the playoffs? He wont ever do it thru the life of his 4 year contract. He'll be lucky to see his 3rd season here.

.

[Nature Boy]

And where exactly did reloading us get? :confused: If I remember correctly we haven't won an AFCW title the last 3 years, we got blown out of the playoffs minus 1 year, and our defense is worse than some high school 3A teams..

If that's reloaded, I'll take that game of roulette...the odds of hitting something are almost NIL.


Also, you sound like a broken record. Even worst, what you're repeating make no sense. Read what Dean just posted above.

Shanahan always fields a competitive team year in and year out. In your reasoning, anything short of a Super Bowl victory is a failed season.

Just wait til McDummass wins less than 8 games in the next 2 seasons and then you'll wish Mike Shanahan never left.

.

[elsid13]

Bowlen has shelled out MILLIONS in getting the players that were asked for by Shanahan and now McDaniels. So what if he makes a profit? If the Broncos need it he will spend it. He practically gives a blank check. The guy wants to win. Anyone who seriously doubts this hasn't followed this team for any reasonable length of time or is just insane.

Bowlen is making a profit. Accord to Forbes he saw $134M last year after operating expensive of (18.8M) and players salary(132M). That based upon revenues of $226M and gate returns $59M. (Source http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_Denver-Broncos_308211.html )

What I don't know is he debt but Forbes say his ratio is 14% Debt/Value of the team.

Let not cry for any NFL owner.

I think the real reason is that Bowlen hates conflict, it been reported that he doesn't like when folks ger "mean" with each other and I see that as more of reason then anything else.

[BroncoWave]

Also, you sound like a broken record. Even worst, what you're repeating make no sense. Read what Dean just posted above.

Shanahan always fields a competitive team year in and year out. In your reasoning, anything short of a Super Bowl victory is a failed season.

Just wait til McDummass wins less than 8 games in the next 2 seasons and then you'll wish Mike Shanahan never left.

.

:lol::lol::lol: This is rich coming from someone who hasn't made a post without the term "McDumbass" in the last 3 or so months.

[Nature Boy]

:lol::lol::lol: This is rich coming from someone who hasn't made a post without the term "McDumbass" in the last 3 or so months.

But I make sense, she doesn't.

.

[BroncoWave]

But I make sense, she doesn't.

.

A. You make no sense and B. Regardless of how much sense you make it's hypocritical to call someone a broken record when you say the same damn thing in every single one of your posts.

[Nature Boy]

You make no sense.

.

[Timmy!]

Sometimes, I wonder why I even bother reading the broncos talk section of the forum anymore.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

So far all he has done is get rid of a complacent head coach who has a terrible eye for defensive talent and allow 1 (maybe 2) "stars" who can't get succeed enough in the redzone and turn the ball over more than I personally care to see. Oh...and BM also drops the rock quite a bit for my tase too.

[EMB6903]

Marshall is a great redzone threat... better than most recievers in this league...just couldnt get noticed with all the horrible redzone calls that were made since hes been in the league

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Royal did OK w/ some of those calls.

[EMB6903]

how many TD's did Royal get in the redzone? I'd bet its about the same.

also like it or not... Marshall was a HUGE reason Royal got those TD's in the redzone.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

how many TD's did Royal get in the redzone? I'd bet its about the same.

also like it or not... Marshall was a HUGE reason Royal got those TD's in the redzone.

and vice versa?

[Simple Jaded]

LOL...might want to let the coach a game before you say we "don't have a head coach".

The Broncos do have a Head Coach.......he's an idiot, but they do have a Head Coach.......

[Shazam!]

It's like Lex never left but worse.

[Lonestar]

Why was Pat 4 years too late? We are 37 and 27 over the last four years.

In my opinion, many have their expectations too high. With a 16 game season the very definition of an average team is an 8 and 8 season. The fans for some teams would celebrate even one 8-8 season. However, IMO in an attempt to rebuild and to abandone restocking by free-agency without a 2 to 4 win season Shanahan is crucified for having an 8-8 average over his last 3 years. He accomplished this with a phenominal amount of injuries over the last two years.

I honestly think that this year we will see what Shanahan was trying to avoid. I hope not, but one way or the other the dye is cast.

the last three years just where did we get somewhere .. sure we won some games.. but who did we beat and who beat us and how bad..

how many games that we should have won just by showing up and we failed to even do that..

How many games over the past 10 years were pulled out by the skin of our teeth mostly by Jason in the waning minutes of a game..

Sure Coach they are wins but I have not been proud of this team for a long time..

last year most of the players were only there for the glory personal goals and not team goals..

and to have given up home field advantage that is down right shameful.


sure we won more games that we lost and if you take the 13-3 season out of their well I suspect it would be even..

after we got out butts kicked by PITT that is when IF I were PAT is when I would have shown mike the door or at least fired him as anything but HC/OC all the rest of the duties would have gone to Professional experienced coaches and GM's..

teams restock all the time with more than a 8-8 season.. look at PIT and NE as prime examples..

there are players that are starters who were drafted after 15 tons of them in the past 10 years..

If you can;t find a starter on day one at least 3 years out of four then something is wrong..

many starting players are found in the top three rounds every year.. afterall that is finding a couple of players that were the top 100 players in the college ranks..

but you can't win many games when you have the dubious distinction of having he worst drafts from 2000-05

now we did win alot of games but it was all because mikey was milking every last bit out those players with smoke and mirrors and on the toe of Jason..

great coaching but lousy management..

[Lonestar]

Sometimes, I wonder why I even bother reading the broncos talk section of the forum anymore.


actually you can get some really good info here .. you just have to know whom to Ignore and skip their posts..

[rcsodak]

Bowlen has no clue what he is doing.

He allowed Joe Ellis to ruin this franchise.

What we have is a good offensive co-ordinator (McDaniels) and a good defensive co-ordinator (Nolan)

We do not have a head coach, I would strip that title in a heartbeat, there are certain people that are head coaches, Josh isn't one of them.

We do not have a quality front office, what we have are the three stooges.

Pat had good intentions but bad advice.

He has been an owner for a long time, but that was then and this is now, the buck stops at his desk......

He needs to be a leader.....not a follower.

He needs to fix this mess.

Name a HC that WASN'T a coordinator.

There isn't such a thing as NFL HC University.
It's called OTJ training.

It's nice to know that YOU know how better to run a multimillion dollar NFL franchise than Mr Bowlen.

[rcsodak]

The Patriots got lucky on Tom Brady. Its as simple as that. Theyve had a good defense that has veterans who have been willing to play for less than what they have been worth. There was even a point in time when Tom Brady was underpaid after working a new deal.

Do you think that if the Pats dont get lucky on a 6th round pick, they are still winning SBs by virtue of their business model? The previous era of QBs left a void where quality QBs concerned. Thats how theyve been winning.

Half of winning games in the NFL is linked to luck. Don't fool yourself.

And by using your own words, I guess denver got "lucky" with TD!?

There's nothing wrong with dumb, blind luck.

[rcsodak]

Wait til we win less than 5 games this season.

We never rebuilt with Shanahan, we only reloaded and that we did. We had a Super Bowl caliber offense, we only needed to reload on the defense(D-line) but Pat Bowlen pretty much trashed the team, is on full rebuild mode now and we haven't addressed the D-line situation that was the problem last season.

.

LMAO!!!!!!

"Super Bowl caliber offense"? WHAT???

How about 7 games of less than 21pts!

-19 against the winless chefs

-16 on the not very good Bucs

-17 on Jax

-7 in the debacle vs the pats

-17 vs Miami

-10 against the hapless faiders

-10 against carolina


And evidently you haven't looked at the roster lately, to think that they haven't made some moves in addressing the Dline.

Anybody that thinks that offense was great because they were the #2 offense is delusional. That was yards gained! Last I looked, it takes scoring points to win games....

...and they were average at best, there.

[rcsodak]

how many TD's did Royal get in the redzone? I'd bet its about the same.

also like it or not... Marshall was a HUGE reason Royal got those TD's in the redzone.

I get it....

BMarsh can do NO wrong...

...and the other wr's are nothing without him!

I guess this is where I mention game 1, where there was no Marshall.

I have a feeling BM's shelf life is 3 more years. Just my gut feeling.

[Nature Boy]

LMAO!!!!!!

"Super Bowl caliber offense"? WHAT???

How about 7 games of less than 21pts!

-19 against the winless chefs

-16 on the not very good Bucs

-17 on Jax

-7 in the debacle vs the pats

-17 vs Miami

-10 against the hapless faiders

-10 against carolina


And evidently you haven't looked at the roster lately, to think that they haven't made some moves in addressing the Dline.

Anybody that thinks that offense was great because they were the #2 offense is delusional. That was yards gained! Last I looked, it takes scoring points to win games....

...and they were average at best, there.


All that offense was missing was a good RB. We went thru about 50 RBs last season. We were bringing guys off the street(mall) to run the ball. We weren't too bad in the red zone when Pittman was in, same with Hillis. So you can attribute the lack of TDs on lack of a good RB.

O and a couple of castoff D-Lineman does not count as addressing the D-line situation that we are in dire need of.

.

[elsid13]

and vice versa?

Not really. Marshall was the guy that defense were keyed on. The zones roll to his side of the field or bracketed Marshall with the CB/S. Royal is a very good player but he isn't star player many make him to be on this board. At no time last season did Royal demand the coverage that Marshall did.

Look at his 90 plus yard catch and run in the Cleveland game. Royal had the one on one, while Marshall was bracketed on the other side of the field with the safeties cheating to Marshall side of the field.

[GEM]

Also, you sound like a broken record. Even worst, what you're repeating make no sense. Read what Dean just posted above.

Shanahan always fields a competitive team year in and year out. In your reasoning, anything short of a Super Bowl victory is a failed season.

Just wait til McDummass wins less than 8 games in the next 2 seasons and then you'll wish Mike Shanahan never left.

.

What's the use of being competitive if you have the same result for a decade straight. Hey, if you're ok being the Chargers, that's great. We weren't even at that level in the last 3 years, hell we weren't even in the same arena.

You're condemning a guy who hasn't even stepped on the field, but giving a free pass to a guy who has proven to deliver mediocrity over the past 3 seasons based on what he did a decade ago.

And YOU'RE telling me about sounding like a broken record? You've had the same tired schtick for the past 5 mos. I don't even know why you call yourself a fan of Denver anymore, you might as well run along to the Bears site and jump back on Cutler's jock.

[G_Money]

For the love of all that is holy, bring on the season.

~G

[Thnikkaman]

But with Shanahan at the helm, we would have Cutler, and Marshal, and a 12 pack of tube socks playing Defense.

[Nomad]

For the love of all that is holy, bring on the season.

~G

I'm with you. We still have July to go through......uugh! I'm anxious to see what good or bad McDaniels brought to this team especially ST and defense!! The speculations and assumptions are getting old and I see no more major changes to this team as far as personnel from here on out!

[Superchop 7]

We would have had the Goodmans.....

Pretty sure they would have turned their attention to the other side of the ball.

[GEM]

We would have had the Goodmans.....

Pretty sure they would have turned their attention to the other side of the ball.

At some point, right? I mean they've had awhile to do that and haven't. But we can assume that at some point they would.

:lol:

Hell, they could have gone to the local 5A champion high school team and found more talent than we've had on defense.

[Den21vsBal19]

Also, you sound like a broken record. Even worst, what you're repeating make no sense. Read what Dean just posted above.

Shanahan always fields a competitive team year in and year out. In your reasoning, anything short of a Super Bowl victory is a failed season.

Just wait til McDummass wins less than 8 games in the next 2 seasons and then you'll wish Mike Shanahan never left.

.
Getting blown out 3-4 times a year ain't bein' competitive, it's postponing the inevitable :frusty:

[Lonestar]

Getting blown out 3-4 times a year ain't bein' competitive, it's postponing the inevitable :frusty:


you got it..:salute:

there is a huge difference in being the blower and the blowee..

when we had a bunch of HOF players we took out a lot of teams pretty easily, since then it has been smoke and mirrors with alot of uber tight games against not so good teams (thank GOD for Jason) and although a win, was nothing to be proud of..

and as you mentioned we have had our asses handed to us by not so great teams when we were not prepared.. and even got the clocks cleaned at home..

[BroncoWave]

you got it..:salute:

there is a huge difference in being the blower and the blowee..

when we had a bunch of HOF players we took out a lot of teams pretty easily, since then it has been smoke and mirrors with alot of uber tight games against not so good teams (thank GOD for Jason) and although a win, was nothing to be proud of..

and as you mentioned we have had our asses handed to us by not so great teams when we were not prepared.. and even got the clocks cleaned at home..

Best example being the Lions, who have lost 23 of their last 25, one of those 2 being a 41-7 victory over our beloved Shanny-led Broncos! :tsk:

[Nature Boy]

What's the use of being competitive if you have the same result for a decade straight. Hey, if you're ok being the Chargers, that's great. We weren't even at that level in the last 3 years, hell we weren't even in the same arena.

You're condemning a guy who hasn't even stepped on the field, but giving a free pass to a guy who has proven to deliver mediocrity over the past 3 seasons based on what he did a decade ago.

And YOU'RE telling me about sounding like a broken record? You've had the same tired schtick for the past 5 mos. I don't even know why you call yourself a fan of Denver anymore, you might as well run along to the Bears site and jump back on Cutler's jock.


All these moves this off season puts us in a much worsen shape than last yr at the same time. How can anyone with a good eye and a brain not see that getting rid of Cutler was the worst move ever and now we're about to let Marshall walk.

You wanna talk about mediocrity, wait til McDummass is run out of town in about 2 years. Get ready for back to back seasons with 4 wins or less per. Then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Anyone with half a brain can see it.

.

[Lonestar]

You make no sense and your reasoning sucks. All these moves this off season puts us in a much worsen shape than last yr at thee time. How can anyone with a good eye and a brain not see that getting rid of Cutler was the worst move ever and now we're about to let Marshall walk.
You wanna talk about mediocrity, wait til McDummass is run out of town in about 2 years. Get ready for back to back seasons with 4 wins or less per. Then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Anyone with half a brain can see it.

.



do you actually have anything else to say other that the highlighted portions above..

Do you have this ready to cut and paste into every post you make? and then add a few words around it.

Time to give it a rest or go sing jay praises on the bears board..

[CoachChaz]

Why do people insist that Cutler has proven ANYTHING? He's has his moments, I'll give him that, but there is always an excuse for his errors. Is there any possibility he might just not be the greatest QB to ever play the game? A strong arm...fine. That and 42 cents will get you a stamp. McD has proven that you do not have to be the strongest or most skilled QB to be VERY successful in his offense.

Nothing has changed for the better? I dare someone to tell me they dont feel 100% better about our secondary than they did this time last year. Add to a great O-line and the fact we now have a multi-dimensional back that has the potential to do great things and I really fail to see how we arent a better team.

[Northman]

I think Jay has proven enough to me as far as his talent is concerned. But his immaturity got the best of him. But what i find very hysterical is the Cutlerites who believe that Jay was forced out of here when it couldnt be any further from the truth. He left on his own accord as that is what he wanted and requested. He didnt want to be in Denver because he got his feelings hurt. And you know what i say to that? Tough shit, grow thicker skin you *****.

[Lonestar]

Why do people insist that Cutler has proven ANYTHING? He's has his moments, I'll give him that, but there is always an excuse for his errors. Is there any possibility he might just not be the greatest QB to ever play the game? A strong arm...fine. That and 42 cents will get you a stamp. McD has proven that you do not have to be the strongest or most skilled QB to be VERY successful in his offense.

Nothing has changed for the better? I dare someone to tell me they dont feel 100% better about our secondary than they did this time last year. Add to a great O-line and the fact we now have a multi-dimensional back that has the potential to do great things and I really fail to see how we arent a better team.


everyone called him or at least dreamed of him being franchise QB.. he still might be but the same thing was being said about Jeff George going into his 4 season..

He had a great year between the 20's phenomenal no doubt but when we needed points he did not perform the apologists are gonna jump on this by saying he only had Hillis and Pitts for a few games.. but they forget his picks and fumbles and if the SAN fumble had have been ruled correctly he would have had one less win also..

the kid is a head case just like greasy was, heard they are preparing a special spot on the bench just for him to sulk at.. glad he is gone..

[Nature Boy]

Why do people insist that Cutler has proven ANYTHING? He's has his moments, I'll give him that, but there is always an excuse for his errors. Is there any possibility he might just not be the greatest QB to ever play the game? A strong arm...fine. That and 42 cents will get you a stamp. McD has proven that you do not have to be the strongest or most skilled QB to be VERY successful in his offense.

Nothing has changed for the better? I dare someone to tell me they dont feel 100% better about our secondary than they did this time last year. Add to a great O-line and the fact we now have a multi-dimensional back that has the potential to do great things and I really fail to see how we arent a better team.

If Mike Shanahan were here, we'd be in a much better shape right now. All we did to the secondary was we signed an aging and ailing safety. We replace Dre Bly with equal to or lesser CBs.

Our glaring need, D-lineman was never addressed except for a couple of castoffs.

The O-line is great but that was Mike Shanahan's doing.

We got what looks like a good RB in Moreno but it cost a 1st rounder.

There is no pros to this off season but way more cons than I wanna think about.

.

[CoachChaz]

everyone called him or at least dreamed of him being franchise QB.. he still might be but the same thing was being said about Jeff George going into his 4 season..

He had a great year between the 20's phenomenal no doubt but when we needed points he did not perform the apologists are gonna jump on this by saying he only had Hillis and Pitts for a few games.. but they forget his picks and fumbles and if the SAN fumble had have been ruled correctly he would have had one less win also..

the kid is a head case just like greasy was, heard they are preparing a special spot on the bench just for him to sulk at.. glad he is gone..

I agree and look at it from a team perspective as well. When Orton was dealt, it seemed his Bears teammates were very sad to see him go. So far, he seems to be very professional and down to Earth. That's the guy i want. I dont care if Cutler can throw from endzone to endzone...he showed that he didnt want to be here because things were not going to be all about him. Fine. I dont even care if he leads the Bears to a Super bowl. I got over the idea of losing him a long time ago.

[CoachChaz]

If Mike Shanahan were here, we'd be in a much better shape right now. All we did to the secondary was we signed an aging and ailing safety. We replace Dre Bly with equal to or lesser CBs.

Our glaring need, D-lineman was never addressed except for a couple of castoffs.

The O-line is great but that was Mike Shanahan's doing.

We got what looks like a good RB in Moreno but it cost a 1st rounder.

There is no pros to this off season but way more cons than I wanna think about.

.


...and what are the things on this endless list? Losing a prima donna QB that is GREATLY overvalued by fans? Maybe losing a prima donna WR that may or may not last 3 more seasons due to legal issues and injuries?

I apologize if you cant see that Goodman will be beter than Bly was or that adding Dawkins skill and leadership...even if for only 2 years...is a tremendous improvement over ANY safety we had back there. Even Hill is an improvement. Then we bolsterd the future of these "antiques" with solid young players to learn from some of the best.

Maybe the d-line wasnt improved, but where were we suppose to do that? Who was available that was a significant and AFFORDABLE improvement?

people are too busy coming up with the negatives and blowing them out of proportion and they fail to even try to see the positives.

[GEM]

You make no sense and your reasoning sucks. All these moves this off season puts us in a much worsen shape than last yr at the same time. How can anyone with a good eye and a brain not see that getting rid of Cutler was the worst move ever and now we're about to let Marshall walk.

You wanna talk about mediocrity, wait til McDummass is run out of town in about 2 years. Get ready for back to back seasons with 4 wins or less per. Then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Anyone with half a brain can see it.

.

Let me put it in more simple terms for you to understand then.

Our team hasn't done ish in the last 3 years and save that one season the previous 6 to that.

Cutler is GONE. We'll see if it was a stupid move at the end of the season. Right now, all Orton has to do is better than .500. Yea it sucks....but honestly...like Coach said...what did Cutler do while he was here? Stats. That's it. The TEAM was no better because of him. The fanbase was no better.

I've held back from calling you what I really think of you because it's against the COC. Try following it sometime. ;)

[topscribe]

http://www.indenvertimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/theend-585x392.gif

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[Thnikkaman]

I had something to add, but Chazz said it already. Nature Boy, you are better off going to a Bears board. You can take your buddy Link with you too. And frankly, I am feeling much better about our sig bet.

[Nature Boy]

Let me put it in more simple terms for you to understand then.

Our team hasn't done ish in the last 3 years and save that one season the previous 6 to that.

Cutler is GONE. We'll see if it was a stupid move at the end of the season. Right now, all Orton has to do is better than .500. Yea it sucks....but honestly...like Coach said...what did Cutler do while he was here? Stats. That's it. The TEAM was no better because of him. The fanbase was no better.

I've held back from calling you what I really think of you because it's against the COC. Try following it sometime. ;)


Let me make it simpler for you to understand. Change is good if it were for the better not worst. Any blind bat can see these are the worst moves any sports franchise can make. I don't have to get into details as we all know.

I've already made a bet with one of the board members that the Broncos will not do better than 8-8. In fact, I don't think they will win more than 4 games if that.

See, my points or yours' will be proven about 5-6 games into the season.

We'll see that Pat Bowlen has done nothing but run the Broncos into the ground for the next 5 yrs.

No smart NFL team owner lets a budding young Franchise QB like Cutler go.

We essentially traded Cutler for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith. I bet Pat Bowlens goes to sleep every night thinking dam I wish I had Jay Cutler back.

.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

What amazes me is that many are already trashing the season - a season which has NOT even started yet. Why don't we all wait and see, and if we look absolutely terrible throughout the season - THEN TRASH SEASON CAN BEGIN.

[topscribe]

Let me make it simpler for you to understand. Change is good if it were for the better not worst. Any blind bat can see these are the worst moves any sports franchise can make. I don't have to get into details as we all know.

I've already made a bet with one of the board members that the Broncos will not do better than 8-8. In fact, I don't think they will win more than 4 games if that.

See, my points or yours' will be proven about 5-6 games into the season.

We'll see that Pat Bowlen has done nothing but run the Broncos into the ground for the next 5 yrs.

No smart NFL team owner lets a budding young Franchise QB like Cutler go.

We essentially traded Cutler for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith. I bet Pat Bowlens goes to sleep every night thinking dam I wish I had Jay Cutler back.

.

You would get along a lot better with people, were it not for your veiled insults.

Do you think you could find it possible to discuss an issue without them?

-----

[GEM]

Let me make it simpler for you to understand. Change is good if it were for the better not worst. Any blind bat can see these are the worst moves any sports franchise can make. I don't have to get into details as we all know.

I've already made a bet with one of the board members that the Broncos will not do better than 8-8. In fact, I don't think they will win more than 4 games if that.

See, my points or yours' will be proven about 5-6 games into the season.

We'll see that Pat Bowlen has done nothing but run the Broncos into the ground for the next 5 yrs.

No smart NFL team owner lets a budding young Franchise QB like Cutler go.

We essentially traded Cutler for Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith. I bet Pat Bowlens goes to sleep every night thinking dam I wish I had Jay Cutler back.

.

That's the problem. Your whole argument is based on assumptions. You have no clue how this will turn out.

Budding, as in packing the stats kind of budding? Cause our W-L was better under Plummer, and I wouldnt' call him budding or Franchise.

Again...you're betting you know what will happen in the future, you're betting you know what goes through Pat Bowlen's head.

My argument is based on fact. Shanny did us no service by ignoring the defense for 10 years straight. Your high powered offense is rendered USELESS with a mediocre defense.

So sit in your pessimism or do us all a favor, go follow your favorite player instead of the team.

[Nature Boy]

That's the problem. Your whole argument is based on assumptions. You have no clue how this will turn out.

Budding, as in packing the stats kind of budding? Cause our W-L was better under Plummer, and I wouldnt' call him budding or Franchise.

Again...you're betting you know what will happen in the future, you're betting you know what goes through Pat Bowlen's head.

My argument is based on fact. Shanny did us no service by ignoring the defense for 10 years straight. Your high powered offense is rendered USELESS with a mediocre defense.

So sit in your pessimism or do us all a favor, go follow your favorite player instead of the team.


***Personal Attack Deleted***

I can make an assumption that the Broncos will suck for the next 2-3 years and will not turn around til McDummass is run out of town but I hope I am wrong.

.

[GEM]

I can make an assumption that the Broncos will suck for the next 2-3 years and will not turn around til McDummass is run out of town but I hope I am wrong.

.

Will there be a time when you can have an adult conversation without throwing out personal attacks? I'm going to take the ADULT avenue here and not retort to what my personal thoughts of you are.

You can make an educated assumption...but that is ALL it is. A GUESS. Your problem is you take your own opinion as fact. This team hasn't set foot on the field. Come back in October and play the I told you so game then.

[Nature Boy]

Will there be a time when you can have an adult conversation without throwing out personal attacks? I'm going to take the ADULT avenue here and not retort to what my personal thoughts of you are.

You can make an educated assumption...but that is ALL it is. A GUESS. Your problem is you take your own opinion as fact. This team hasn't set foot on the field. Come back in October and play the I told you so game then.

Will do.

.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I can make an assumption that the Broncos will suck for the next 2-3 years and will not turn around til McDummass is run out of town but I hope I am wrong.

.

Assumptions - same as those Nuggets fans who made assumptions that the Nuggets would be absolutely TERRIBLE because they traded away Camby.

Assumptions - same as those "so called experts" who predicted that the Nuggets would not even MAKE the playoffs

[girler]

I can make an assumption that the Broncos will suck for the next 2-3 years and will not turn around til McDummass is run out of town but I hope I am wrong.

.

Actually, I think that's the definition of a prophet. I think I'll wait and see if you're right before I join your church.

[weazel]

http://www.indenvertimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/theend-585x392.gif

-----

youre missing one thing on that pic, the Broncos fans jumping off the cliff

[Nature Boy]

Assumptions - same as those Nuggets fans who made assumptions that the Nuggets would be absolutely TERRIBLE because they traded away Camby.

Assumptions - same as those "so called experts" who predicted that the Nuggets would not even MAKE the playoffs


Actually, I think that's the definition of a prophet. I think I'll wait and see if you're right before I join your church.



Keep sipping on that McDaniels cool aid. By October, I just hope Gem and her forum pals can admit they were totally wrong.

.

[GEM]

Keep sipping on that McDaniels cool aid. By October, I just hope Gem and her forum pals can admit they were totally wrong.

.

Where have I said that the Broncos were going to be great? I have said that I'm letting the team take the field before jumping to conclusions. I'm waiting for a reason to get upset. For all I know, these players all buy in and we actually see good play on the field.

I just hope if that happens you have the kahunas to admit you were totally wrong.

[girler]

Keep sipping on that McDaniels cool aid. By October, I just hope Gem and her forum pals can admit they were totally wrong.

.

I thought it was the *prophet* who made the followers drink the kool-aid. :confused:

But really- I find no point in beating this poor horse to death daily. I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I'm not going to predict anything, I don't want any gold stars or blind followers or whatever the prize is for making the right call.

I'm just a Broncos Fan who wants her blue and orange team to succeed, but I have no power whatsoever over what happens with the team on or off the field and the choices of those who ARE in power are completely frustrating and confusing.

That makes me grumpy. :tsk:

GO BRONCOS!!!

[Thnikkaman]

***Personal Attack Deleted***

I can make an assumption that the Broncos will suck for the next 2-3 years and will not turn around til McDummass is run out of town but I hope I am wrong.

.

What you are trying to do is create a Hypothesis about what our season will look like. You are saying that your educated guess tells you that without Shanahan and Cutler we go below .500. However you lack sufficient evidence (this team playing on the field in a regular season game) to support such a Hypothesis.

Don't assume anything. For all we know, Cutler is going to go down like Brady did last year, and we could all be saying, "Thank God we don't have Cutler anymore." So unless there is something special about you that gives you great joy in being pessimistic, or you change your opinion, can we get off of the Doomsday predictions? What is your purpose in continuing this course of action? Anyone that you have convinced probably felt this way in the first place. And convincing anyone else is like trying to convince an ant that its a bluebird.

Its like my mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[EMB6903]

and vice versa?

Not close..... Teams feared Marshall much more than they feared Royal last year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not close..... Teams feared Marshall much more than they feared Royal last year.

But we will have a totally different offensive scheme this year. And, I am not sure if teams feared Marshall. Jay was so obvious on many passes - i.e. - Marshall was his ONLY intended receiver, that all the corner backs had to do was concentrate on Marshall. How could Royal be feared in that situation - the other teams knew that most of the time he would not get thrown to.

[EMB6903]

on most every passing down Marshall was getting hit with a safety over the top doubling him from the start...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

on most every passing down Marshall was getting hit with a safety over the top doubling him from the start...

That's because he was the one Cutler threw to most of the time, instead of spreading it around to take the pressure off of Marshall.

[Shazam!]

Worst thread ever.

[Lonestar]

That's because he was the one Cutler threw to most of the time, instead of spreading it around to take the pressure off of Marshall.



an amazing concept if they would have done it..

[Tempus Fugit]

Last season, the Broncos went .500 because they got a gift win they didn't deserve. Everyone knows, or should know, that they were really a 7-9 team. Add to that the schedule, which was easier than this year's schedule will be, and you get a situation where 4-5 wins this year will be the basic equivalent to what this team did last season. Hell, 5 wins out of this year's schedule might be more impressive than the 8 from last year, especially if Palmer and company bring Cincinnati back to respectability.

The schedule looks to be brutal. That, to me, is what will "trash the season" for the Broncos more than anything else. As a group, the AFC West could very well have the worst record in the NFL this season because of the schedules.

[Magnificent Seven]

Is he trying to get rid of what he seems to think are the bad apples even at the expense of trashing the season? Like Ive been saying, a lot of this seems more and more to go back to Bowlen.

Blame it on McDaniels. Pat Bowlen is not a person who would destroy his organization. He is one of top owners in NFL and he knew what he wants. McDaniels screwed it up and he has failed to fix it. He lost our best QB to the Chicago Bears. Now, Marshall is under influenced by McDaniels-Cutler situation and it is look as if he wants to follow Cutler. It is all about McDaniels.

[elsid13]

That's because he was the one Cutler threw to most of the time, instead of spreading it around to take the pressure off of Marshall.

Yet Royal had 91 catches, Stokely 49, Scheffer 40 and Graham 32. That doesn't count the other 11 guys that all got pass/passes from him. 15 different players were on the receiving end last year.

[Lonestar]

Yet Royal had 91 catches, Stokely 49, Scheffer 40 and Graham 32. That doesn't count the other 11 guys that all got pass/passes from him. 15 different players were on the receiving end last year.


Scheffler and Hillis would have had many more had they not been dinged up..


I suspect that mikey had bates call Marshall's number a lot knowing that his job had to be in jeopardy..

[nevcraw]

Scheffler and Hillis would have had many more had they not been dinged up..


I suspect that mikey had bates call Marshall's number a lot knowing that his job had to be in jeopardy..

your mind a curious and dangerous place.

[elsid13]

Scheffler and Hillis would have had many more had they not been dinged up..


I suspect that mikey had bates call Marshall's number a lot knowing that his job had to be in jeopardy..

Marshall was the primary read on most passing down. He fit the Jerry Rice/Rod Smith role in the WCO offense.

[Tned]

Marshall was the primary read on most passing down. He fit the Jerry Rice/Rod Smith role in the WCO offense.

Primary, as in the way 'most' number one recievers are targed far and above the other's on the team?

Aren't you suprised how many people don't seem to grasp that he was targeted because of his talent and ability, rather than simply because he was the QB's 'buddy'.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Primary, as in the way 'most' number one recievers are targed far and above the other's on the team?

Aren't you suprised how many people don't seem to grasp that he was targeted because of his talent and ability, rather than simply because he was the QB's 'buddy'.

I know for myself, I was not surprised that Marshall was Cutler's almost always go to guy, but what did not make sense to me is when Cutler would try to force it to Marshall when he was double, triple covered, rather than looking for someone else. If he would have done that, Marshall may have not drawn double, triple coverage.

[Northman]

I know for myself, I was not surprised that Marshall was Cutler's almost always go to guy, but what did not make sense to me is when Cutler would try to force it to Marshall when he was double, triple covered, rather than looking for someone else. If he would have done that, Marshall may have not drawn double, triple coverage.

I think that is part of the growing pains. I would expect him to grow out of that but without a "go-to" guy in Chicago it may force him to learn to scan the field more than he might like.

[Tned]

I know for myself, I was not surprised that Marshall was Cutler's almost always go to guy, but what did not make sense to me is when Cutler would try to force it to Marshall when he was double, triple covered, rather than looking for someone else. If he would have done that, Marshall may have not drawn double, triple coverage.

Hard to say, but most receivers of Marshall's caliber (especially those with his size) do draw double teams (and often additional safety helping rolling towards him), and their QB's still target them, because the receivers like Marshall can typically out jump/fight the DB for the ball.

Did Jay ever make a mistake in who he chose to throw to? Sure, but it is also worth noting that he still has less than 2 1/2 years starting experience.

[EMB6903]

I get it....

BMarsh can do NO wrong...

...and the other wr's are nothing without him!

I guess this is where I mention game 1, where there was no Marshall.

I have a feeling BM's shelf life is 3 more years. Just my gut feeling.

What are you talking about?

man these smartass comments get played out

"since you said Bmarsh is a great WR obviously you think he cant do any wrong"

bring some quality football talk to the board man.

[Simple Jaded]

I know for myself, I was not surprised that Marshall was Cutler's almost always go to guy, but what did not make sense to me is when Cutler would try to force it to Marshall when he was double, triple covered, rather than looking for someone else. If he would have done that, Marshall may have not drawn double, triple coverage.

All QB's (Excluding Kyle Orton, of course) do this to a certain extent, imo, and I didn't have a problem with it.

This same thing had the NFL community buzzing about the Kurt Warner to Larry Fitzgerald connection in 2008, the difference imo, was Fitzgerald's ability to adjust to/high point the ball.

But when Warner does this he is just giving Fitzgerald a chance to make a play, when Cutler did it it apparently becomes reason enough to trade him for a career
backup. :D.......

[Simple Jaded]

I had something to add, but Chazz said it already. Nature Boy, you are better off going to a Bears board. You can take your buddy Link with you too. And frankly, I am feeling much better about our sig bet.

I have a buddy? Awesome! That's just what message boards are for.......

[nevcraw]

Hard to say, but most receivers of Marshall's caliber (especially those with his size) do draw double teams (and often additional safety helping rolling towards him), and their QB's still target them, because the receivers like Marshall can typically out jump/fight the DB for the ball.

Did Jay ever make a mistake in who he chose to throw to? Sure, but it is also worth noting that he still has less than 2 1/2 years starting experience.

BINGO!!

with age and experience it will be natural for Cutler to tone down his arrogance, socially and in his arm. But some think now he is the anitchrist because he protested his botched trade attempts and then the subsquent laughable attempt at a cover up. If McD had treated him like a man, from the beggining, he would have gotten Cutler to buy into his plan and become his greatest pupil..

[lex]

Last season, the Broncos went .500 because they got a gift win they didn't deserve. Everyone knows, or should know, that they were really a 7-9 team. Add to that the schedule, which was easier than this year's schedule will be, and you get a situation where 4-5 wins this year will be the basic equivalent to what this team did last season. Hell, 5 wins out of this year's schedule might be more impressive than the 8 from last year, especially if Palmer and company bring Cincinnati back to respectability.

The schedule looks to be brutal. That, to me, is what will "trash the season" for the Broncos more than anything else. As a group, the AFC West could very well have the worst record in the NFL this season because of the schedules.

On the flip side of that, they also had more than their share of injuries. A lot of the drop off in scoring that many point to also coincides with the time when Denver lost Pittman. When Denver had Pittman and Hillis, scoring wasnt such an issue but this gets overlooked.

[lex]

Blame it on McDaniels. Pat Bowlen is not a person who would destroy his organization. He is one of top owners in NFL and he knew what he wants. McDaniels screwed it up and he has failed to fix it. He lost our best QB to the Chicago Bears. Now, Marshall is under influenced by McDaniels-Cutler situation and it is look as if he wants to follow Cutler. It is all about McDaniels.

I used to think that Bowlen was above reproach too but then I got past the sentimentality.

[Shazam!]

This is the worst thread ever.

We should be thankful. Bowlen went out and got us the hottest young candidate there was out there, and to think he is trashing the season is ridiculous.

He was the highest sought after assistant besides Spags, who you just have this hard on for. Spags didn't interview well for several teams, the NYJ included, that's probably why he didn't get the job.

The fact that you're back and instantly feeding this garbage says a lot.

I hope McDaniels wildly succeeds, not just because I want the Broncos to do well, but so all the expert analysts here can shut the **** up and look like morons.

[nevcraw]

This is the worst thread ever.

We should be thankful. Bowlen went out and got us the hottest young candidate there was out there, and to think he is trashing the season is ridiculous.

Scream all you want, but Bowlen deserves whatever he get's good or bad.. Rememember - "I'm in charge".. To think he is still above criticism or skepticism after the "man in charge" has orchestrated the biggest head scratcher of an offseason in Broncos history is laughable..
He may have a plan but if there is one it is still being kept under wraps..

[silkamilkamonico]

We should be thankful. Bowlen went out and got us the hottest young candidate there was out there, and to think he is trashing the season is ridiculous.

He was the highest sought after assistant besides Spags, who you just have this hard on for. Spags didn't interview well for several teams, the NYJ included, that's probably why he didn't get the job.

.


I agree.

Spags was my first choice, but considering he's even stated himself he doesn't have a long term plan in ST. Louis, and the moves he's made to try and improve that organizatyion leads me to belief the guy just flat out isn't cut out to be a head coach. I think the fact that he doesn't have a vision for where he wants to bring his organization is probably why teams haven't jumped at the chance to hire him.

I completely missed the boat on Spags, and am grateful Denver did not hire him

[silkamilkamonico]

Scream all you want, but Bowlen deserves whatever he get's good or bad.. Rememember - "I'm in charge".. To think he is still above criticism or skepticism after the "man in charge" has orchestrated the biggest head scratcher of an offseason in Broncos history is laughable..
He may have a plan but if there is one it is still being kept under wraps..

He needed to step in and put his foot down. His giving in to what the head coach has wanted to do is what got Denver into this mess of stagnant mediocrity. If he put his foot down and fired Shanahan a few years ago when he should have, Denver would have well been past this transition.

[Lonestar]

I agree.

Spags was my first choice, but considering he's even stated himself he doesn't have a long term plan in ST. Louis, and the moves he's made to try and improve that organizatyion leads me to belief the guy just flat out isn't cut out to be a head coach. I think the fact that he doesn't have a vision for where he wants to bring his organization is probably why teams haven't jumped at the chance to hire him.

I completely missed the boat on Spags, and am grateful Denver did not hire him

I was also uptight about that one.. I saw like most everyone else did the O was OK and what we needed was a great D guy to turn it around..

But I think Josh has brought something new here in spirit that needed to be woke up and of course I think Nolan will be a great DC once he has some more talent on the DL.. of course the DL might have been dormant waiting for a real set of coaches and a scheme also..

[nevcraw]

He needed to step in and put his foot down. His giving in to what the head coach has wanted to do is what got Denver into this mess of stagnant mediocrity. If he put his foot down and fired Shanahan a few years ago when he should have, Denver would have well been past this transition.

what's he doing now?

Just not sure he put a proper plan together in replacing shanny and the chaos of this offseason is a direct result of this..

[silkamilkamonico]

what's he doing now?

Just not sure he put a proper plan together in replacing shanny and the chaos of this offseason is a direct result of this..

I don't think he thought it would go down like this, but then again, it rarely ever does when a new regime comes in. He's hiring multiple people to run day to day activities, and not allowing 1 person to drive the organization into the ground like Shanahan did.

[lex]

I don't think he thought it would go down like this, but then again, it rarely ever does when a new regime comes in. He's hiring multiple people to run day to day activities, and not allowing 1 person to drive the organization into the ground like Shanahan did.

Yeah, instead he is letting a marketing guy have input on who should be the coach. Marketing isnt even operations.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeah, instead he is letting a marketing guy have input on who should be the coach. Marketing isnt even operations.

Like what has already been said. Bowlen deserves whatever happens to him, good/bad. He was patient, let the last regime try to figure it out, only to have failed miserably. He's trying another route.

[lex]

Like what has already been said. Bowlen deserves whatever happens to him, good/bad. He was patient, let the last regime try to figure it out, only to have failed miserably. He's trying another route.

Since Elway left Denver has remained one of the winningest teams in the NFL. Since when is that failing miserably. Plus they finally had someone in Goodman who had an eye for talent.

[Shazam!]

Since Elway left Denver has remained one of the winningest teams in the NFL.

One playoff win, one division title.

[MOtorboat]

Plus they finally had someone in Goodman who had an eye for talent.

Defensive talent, eh?

What a joke of a statement.

[BroncoWave]

This thread is still going?

[lex]

Defensive talent, eh?

What a joke of a statement.

Theyve had Slowik the past couple of years. No one can say with any degree of certainty that the guys the Goodmans are total busts, especially when you consider that one years worth of picks were for a different DC (ie Bates).

[lex]

This thread is still going?


You have to wonder this? LOL.

[MOtorboat]

Theyve had Slowik the past couple of years. No one can say with any degree of certainty that the guys the Goodmans are total busts, especially when you consider that one years worth of picks were for a different DC (ie Bates).

I mean, the Goodman's were responsible for drafting the worst defensive talent in the league, unless we blame Shanahan, and we all know that you won't blame Shanahan for it. Not to mention the free agent signings.

[lex]

I mean, the Goodman's were responsible for drafting the worst defensive talent in the league, unless we blame Shanahan, and we all know that you won't blame Shanahan for it. Not to mention the free agent signings.

How do you know this? You didnt think Larsen and Woodyard were as good as Williams and Webster?

[MOtorboat]

How do you know this? You didnt think Larsen and Woodyard were as good as Williams and Webster?

Yeah...Larsen, who was turned into a fullback by your savior was a superior talent to Williams...

I mean, seriously, WTF?

[lex]

Yeah...Larsen, who was turned into a fullback by your savior was a superior talent to Williams...

I mean, seriously, WTF?

Youre confused.

[MOtorboat]

Youre confused.

Surprisingly, you're talking in circles.

Please, explain it for us morons.

[lex]

Surprisingly, you're talking in circles.

Please, explain it for us morons.


Maybe you should just stick to what was being said about Goodman and not go out on any limbs.

[MOtorboat]

Maybe you should just stick to what was being said about Goodman and not go out on any limbs.

Go for it, once again, can you explain your assumptions?

[frauschieze]

Knock this off right now and get back on topic.

[MOtorboat]

Knock this off right now and get back on topic.

Topic: Is Bowlen trashing the season?

Response: You're an idiot for thinking so.

[rcsodak]

Topic: Is Bowlen trashing the season?

Response: You're an idiot for thinking so.

:laugh:

The sky is falling ....the sky is falling.....