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Dortoh
06-16-2009, 05:53 PM
http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=142#more-142

Clearing the Air…
To whom it may concern. Life is filled with change, and where I am in my life now change is probably best. It’s hard leaving an organization ran by one of the best owners in all of sports, and someone who’s been there for me through my ups and downs. The hardest thing was hearing Mr. B wish me luck in the future, but we both came to the conclusion that this is probably the best thing for me to grow on and off the field.

I thank the Denver fans who embraced my emotion and play on the field and showing me love every time I step outside my door

underrated29
06-16-2009, 06:00 PM
God Muther*******Dam** Son******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

elsid13
06-16-2009, 06:01 PM
I really hate this offseason. Someone get whatever Bowlen is drinking.

Peerless
06-16-2009, 06:02 PM
Forget Brandon.

He's a ******* idiot. A player with a million dollar body and a ten cent head.

Dortoh
06-16-2009, 06:02 PM
I need a beer and hooker

elsid13
06-16-2009, 06:04 PM
I need a beer and hooker

just remember you use the condom on the hooker and not the beer.

dogfish
06-16-2009, 06:09 PM
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9692/fmlfacepalm.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/fmlfacepalm.jpg/)

lex
06-16-2009, 06:11 PM
The most troubling thing about that is his reference to Bowlen. Its not uncommon for people to posture with stuff like this but I kind of doubt that he would refer to Bowlen if Bowlen hadnt actually said something like that.

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:18 PM
The most troubling thing about that is his reference to Bowlen. Its not uncommon for people to posture with stuff like this but I kind of doubt that he would refer to Bowlen if Bowlen hadnt actually said something like that.

Even if Bowlen agreed it might be for the best, and that he would do his best to accomodate Mashall's wish, like Marshall's agent said, that doesn't mean he will sell him at a firesale price. So, even if Bowlen said it, doesn't mean Marshall and the Broncos won't reconcile or reach and empasse that leads to him holding out or having no choice but to return for one more year.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-16-2009, 06:19 PM
Let the draft pick games begin once again. Do I hear a first and a third, do I hear a first and a third?

BroncoWave
06-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Forget Brandon.

He's a ******* idiot. A player with a million dollar body and a ten cent head.

Agreed. I think soon we will all be laughing when he hits his g/f again and is suspended for half the season while we are sitting with draft picks and/or players from whoever we trade him to. I'll miss his talent but anyone who thinks he will magically change and never get into trouble with the law is kidding themselves IMO.

broncofaninfla
06-16-2009, 06:23 PM
Who's next? I wonder who else will want out?

Requiem / The Dagda
06-16-2009, 06:24 PM
Who's next? I wonder who else will want out?

That's what I wonder. If there will be a ripple effect in our locker room that will make relatively happy players unhappy and wanting out. Well, at this rate -- McDaniels will get all the players he wants in anways. Haha!

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Agreed. I think soon we will all be laughing when he hits his g/f again and is suspended for half the season while we are sitting with draft picks and/or players from whoever we trade him to. I'll miss his talent but anyone who thinks he will magically change and never get into trouble with the law is kidding themselves IMO.

Kids grow up, so yes, he could 'magically' change. As to laughing, a lot would have to do with the compensation and what we got with it. If we get a fourth round pick, we would be better off with Marshall for half the season. If we get two first round picks and trade him for a short, slow corner and a clocking tight end, we would be better off with Marshall for half a season. If we get a first rounder and get a stud receiver or safety, then maybe we will be 'laughing' (domestic abuse issue aside).

Benetto
06-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Who's next? I wonder who else will want out?


It doesn't matter, we have the un-proven genius McDaniels at the helm...:rolleyes:

lex
06-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Even if Bowlen agreed it might be for the best, and that he would do his best to accomodate Mashall's wish, like Marshall's agent said, that doesn't mean he will sell him at a firesale price. So, even if Bowlen said it, doesn't mean Marshall and the Broncos won't reconcile or reach and empasse that leads to him holding out or having no choice but to return for one more year.

Im not implying that. Im just saying that it seems very likely that Pat is going to try to trade Brandon rather than keep him. And I actually thought we didnt get enough out of the Cutler trade, especially concerning how we used the Chicago pick.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Kids grow up, so yes, he could 'magically' change. As to laughing, a lot would have to do with the compensation and what we got with it. If we get a fourth round pick, we would be better off with Marshall for half the season. If we get two first round picks and trade him for a short, slow corner and a clocking tight end, we would be better off with Marshall for half a season. If we get a first rounder and get a stud receiver or safety, then maybe we will be 'laughing' (domestic abuse issue aside).

You keep bringing up Alphonso Smith in regards to the prior trading of Jay Cutler; but Alphonso Smith was not acquired with any picks that Jay Cutler garnered us.

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:29 PM
Im not implying that. Im just saying that it seems very likely that Pat is going to try to trade Brandon rather than keep him. And I actually thought we didnt get enough out of the Cutler trade, especially concerning how we used the Chicago pick.

We got good value for Cutler, early indications are we didn't use that value very well.

No doubt that based on Marshall's comments and what we have seen today, the team will likely try and trade him, but hopefully they will hold out for the 'right' deal or just make Marshall choose to play or hold out.

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:31 PM
You keep bringing up Alphonso Smith in regards to the prior trading of Jay Cutler; but Alphonso Smith was not acquired with any picks that Jay Cutler garnered us.

He was in the sense that McDaniels even associated them. He ONLY picked Smith because he had the first from Cutler. It's semantics to try and make a case that Smith wasn't picked with the Cutler pick, when we know that the only reason he was drafted was because the Broncos had the extra first.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-16-2009, 06:36 PM
He was in the sense that McDaniels even associated them. He ONLY picked Smith because he had the first from Cutler. It's semantics to try and make a case that Smith wasn't picked with the Cutler pick, when we know that the only reason he was drafted was because the Broncos had the extra first.

Trading Jay allowed us flexibility with our draft picks, as we had more and could give them away. And it isn't really semantics to argue Smith was not picked from something Jay Cutler got us. He wasn't. We still have the second first-rounder from Chicago in that trade. We drafted Robert Ayers with the first in 2009; and packaged our thirds to get a second and a fourth (Quinn and Olsen). So, those are the three players we've got with the picks we had (coupled with another third) -- and we'll have the Chicago pick next year to see what we all got for Jay.

For all we know, McDaniels could have felt perfectly comfortable trading a future first to get Alphonso even if they didn't have the extra pick in the first place. Many teams have before, and McDaniels didn't hesitate to move picks; future or present in the draft at all.

So no, Alphonso Smith was not a pick from anything Jay garnered us -- besides draft flexibility. Either way, I don't know what is worse -- your representation of this or that of Smith and Quinn respectively as prospects.

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Trading Jay allowed us flexibility with our draft picks, as we had more and could give them away. And it isn't really semantics to argue Smith was not picked from something Jay Cutler got us. He wasn't. We still have the second first-rounder from Chicago in that trade. We drafted Robert Ayers with the first in 2009; and packaged our thirds to get a second and a fourth (Quinn and Olsen). So, those are the three players we've got with the picks we had (coupled with another third) -- and we'll have the Chicago pick next year to see what we all got for Jay.

For all we know, McDaniels could have felt perfectly comfortable trading a future first to get Alphonso even if they didn't have the extra pick in the first place. Many teams have before, and McDaniels didn't hesitate to move picks; future or present in the draft at all.

So no, Alphonso Smith was not a pick from anything Jay garnered us -- besides draft flexibility.

Except that isn't what McDaniels said. In 'explaining' his pick, he stated that they felt they had four first rounders to use over the next two years and weren't too concerned with whether they used two or three next year. He went on to 'explain/justify' that while many question some of his moves, the Broncos still have a first round pick and seven picks in total, so they will have a full draft.

That ONLY happened because they had the extra first from Chicago.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-16-2009, 06:45 PM
The Broncos 2010 first-rounder was not received in a trade for Jay Cutler, but that is what we used to get Smith. So no, we didn't get Alphonso Smith for Jay Cutler. I'll just stop there though, because I already know that is the right assessment and doesn't need to be rehashed and beaten upon more. I'm excited to see who we get with the Chicago pick next year, because it's quite possible we could have four starters for a long time in compensation for Jay if things actually work out well; which is what I would hope most of us are gunning for.

scott.475
06-16-2009, 06:51 PM
McD is the BEST COACH EVER!

I can't wait for this wretched off-season to be over. I had moved out of Colorado by the time Philips became our coach, and that was before I had dish, before NFLN, all that stuff, so I don't really know what it was like then other than the limited press coverage I could get, but in my experience, this is by far the most tumultuous off-season I can remember. After all this garbage McD better get us on winning path soon or people will be screaming for his head.

At this point I am quite ambivalent about Marshall, for every reason to keep him, there is a reason to let him go, he may not be worth the trouble any more. Regardless, this has been a horrible off-season. Winning can cure a lot of ills and I hope the junior-God McD will get us winning, but for all the talk of "the system", he was successful with "the system" with Tom freaking Brady and Orton is no Brady. Geez, I am sick over all this.

spikerman
06-16-2009, 06:56 PM
http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=142#more-142

Clearing the Air…
.... showing me love every time I step outside my door
My guess is that he won't be experiencing that anymore.

dogfish
06-16-2009, 06:56 PM
That's what I wonder. If there will be a ripple effect in our locker room that will make relatively happy players unhappy and wanting out. Well, at this rate -- McDaniels will get all the players he wants in anways. Haha!

who's to say that marshall himself isn't the first ripple from the cutler trade? maybe the ripple effect is already happening. . . and yes, if this is how willing we are to trade off our top stars rather than paying them or working to accomodate them, i think it's quite reasonable to believe that other players may question whether denver is where they want to be long term-- especially if we let weigmann retire rather than forking over a million or two in recognition of his pro bowl year, and ESPECIALLY if we go out and win four or five games next year. . .



It doesn't matter, we have the un-proven genius McDaniels at the helm...:rolleyes:

patriot way FTW, baby!



all sarcasm aside, what maybe concerns me the most about this is something i mentioned in a previous thread-- the precedent it sets. . . not satisfied playing in denver? all you have to do is ask, we'll fall all over ourselves in our hurry to trade you. . . where do we draw the line an the sand and tell guys "no dice, you're under contract?"

what happens if royal decides he wants out next year? how about clady? if they ask for trades, will we ship them out too?

elsid13
06-16-2009, 07:09 PM
all sarcasm aside, what maybe concerns me the most about this is something i mentioned in a previous thread-- the precedent it sets. . . not satisfied playing in denver? all you have to do is ask, we'll fall all over ourselves in our hurry to trade you. . . where do we draw the line an the sand and tell guys "no dice, you're under contract?"

what happens if royal decides he wants out next year? how about clady? if they ask for trades, will we ship them out too?

I am more concern why the young players want out. I have strange feeling that McDaniels doesn't understand what it means to manage the Generation Y workforce and rest of FO is to old to understand the generation difference.

Dreadnought
06-16-2009, 07:25 PM
Agreed. I think soon we will all be laughing when he hits his g/f again and is suspended for half the season while we are sitting with draft picks and/or players from whoever we trade him to. I'll miss his talent but anyone who thinks he will magically change and never get into trouble with the law is kidding themselves IMO.

I'm with you. I was and remain pissed off over the Cutler situation, but not so much in this case. I just can't get worked up over it. I'd rather see him stick around I guess on the off chance he gets his act together - but I don't see that happening. Lets get what we can. Too bad, but there it is.

BroncoWave
06-16-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm with you. I was and remain pissed off over the Cutler situation, but not so much in this case. I just can't get worked up over it. I'd rather see him stick around I guess on the off chance he gets his act together - but I don't see that happening. Lets get what we can. Too bad, but there it is.

Yeah, I really won't be upset either way in this case. If he stays and produces for us, great. If we trade him for fair value, that works too. I really do hope that he has cleaned up his act but if not, I'd be more than happy for him to be someone else's problem. He's one arrest away from reaching Pacman status IMO and despite his talent I just don't know if he's worth that kind of distraction.

SR
06-16-2009, 07:41 PM
At this point I don't really care. I'm tired of the offseason and all of the drama that comes with it. I'm just ready for football and the feelings of disappointment that come with watching my team lose on Sunday.

Denver Native (Carol)
06-16-2009, 07:41 PM
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.brandon.marshall.2.1047238.html

DENVER (CBS4) ― Brandon Marshall has finally spoken. He wants out of Denver. The Pro Bowl receiver posted a short statement Tuesday on his website confirming he wants to be traded.

"To whom it may concern," Marshall wrote. "Life is filled with change, and where I am in my life now change is probably best."

Marshall confirms that he asked Pat Bowlen for the trade during a face to face meeting last week. Marshall met with the team owner just hours after the Broncos wrapped up the first day of a three day mandatory minicamp. Marshall will almost certainly be fined for skipping the minicamp.

"The hardest thing was hearing Mr. B wish me luck in the future,but we both came to the conclusion that this is probably the best thing for me to grow on and off the field."

There are conflicting accounts as to where the Broncos stand on trading their talented receiver. Marshall's agent is quoting as saying the Broncos told him they would try to accomodate his trade request. However, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels is also quoted with a much different take. According to ESPN, McDaniels says the team plans to keep Marshall.

"We met after Pat's meeting with Brandon Marshall, and we've decided that we will continue to have a dialogue with Brandon and his representative," McDaniels told ESPN. "But we are looking forward to having Brandon at training camp."

When CBS4 Sports contacted Marshall's agent Kennard McGuire, he declined to discuss the situation. The Broncos told CBS4's Gary Miller that they would have no further comments beyond what McDaniels has already said.

NameUsedBefore
06-16-2009, 07:45 PM
Blah.

NameUsedBefore
06-16-2009, 07:46 PM
There are conflicting accounts as to where the Broncos stand on trading their talented receiver. Marshall's agent is quoting as saying the Broncos told him they would try to accomodate his trade request. However, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels is also quoted with a much different take. According to ESPN, McDaniels says the team plans to keep Marshall.

Is there really any point in trusting anything McDaniels says at this point?

MasterShake
06-16-2009, 07:46 PM
"Baby T.O." in all the best and worst sense of the name. I love his talent and on the field attitude, but just like Cutler I don't want someone there who does not want to be there. Hopefully we can find a way to compliment Royal, maybe Knowshon Moreno will make us a punch you in the mouth running team again.

I'm still gonna be there on Sunday, but I'm not sure I'm gonna recognize the team this year! :lol:

Perhaps it is for the best, I am super curious to how our season will play out now. Part of me misses our potent pro-bowlers all ready, part of me thinks that if we are going to change we have to overhaul the whole damn engine. Looks like thats what we are doing! Thank God for a relatively weak division, there is still hope...

Watchthemiddle
06-16-2009, 07:46 PM
To all of you "i know everything about the Broncos and how they operate in the offseason" fans....this is 100% on Marshall. We have seen this act time and time again throughout the history of the NFL. Prima Donna type WR's, QB's, RB's etc. getting to the end of their contract and holding out. Don't try to point the blame on McD on this one. We saw this coming when Shanny was still here.

The thing with Marshall is there is speculation that the hip is not ready...and might not be ready come training camp. If Marshall knows that, he might as well roll the dice. If the Broncos know that....trade him for value and let the other team deal with his injury and off the field problems.

I want him here, but ...... I think the Broncos are 100% in the right here. If you don't then you haven't been following the history of the offseason in the NFL very much

topscribe
06-16-2009, 07:48 PM
The sheriff has come to town and closed down the Country Club. Marshall has
taken out, looking for another Country Club. He joins others (see Cutler) in that
venture.

Meanwhile, what is taking place here in Denver is the formation of a FOOTBALL
TEAM . . . a mob of BALLERS who will LINE UP AND PLAY FOOTBALL.

Be sure to latch the door on the way out, Brandon. We want to control who is
coming back in . . .

-----

NameUsedBefore
06-16-2009, 07:53 PM
Oh January, how I miss thee.
(http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-01-06/filling-nfl-head-coach-openings)


DENVER BRONCOS

The Cast: Rick Dennison, Frazier, Jason Garrett, McDaniels, Morris, Spagnuolo

The Plot: This job is the brass ring of this winter's market. Strong ownership. Local support. A franchise quarterback, cornerstone left tackle, and two playmaking receivers, all 25 or younger. A rabid fan base. One thing that might be worth noting here, while Pat Bowlen conducts a rather exhaustive search, is that the owner isn't likely looking for a mercenary. As his history with Dan Reeves (12 years in Denver) and Mike Shanahan (14 years) would indicate, he'll probably look for someone who wants to stay a while.

The Final Act: I'll say it here, and be very clear: McDaniels and the Broncos are a match made in heaven. He could bring Romeo Crennel in to run the defense, which needs a major rebuilding job, and maximize the considerable potential of Cutler and the offense. At 32, he's the type of guy Bowlen would love to put in place and allow to run the show. McDaniels has been patient as his name has come up over the last few years, waiting for the right shot. This would be it.

Benetto
06-16-2009, 07:56 PM
There gos our best draft class in Broncos history....When they say "dismantle and rebuild", they mean it. :tsk:

NightTrainLayne
06-16-2009, 07:57 PM
Can Brandon Marshall even pass a physical if we trade him?

:ranger:

Bowlen can wish him luck, but the stars are going to have to line up perfectly for us to get a deal that compensates us adequately, and gets Brandon his contract, and have him pass a physical.

I think this is all pie-in-the-sky, and when it all shakes out Brandon will still be here next season. . .unless all those things do indeed line up.

Watchthemiddle
06-16-2009, 08:00 PM
Can Brandon Marshall even pass a physical if we trade him?

:ranger:

Bowlen can wish him luck, but the stars are going to have to line up perfectly for us to get a deal that compensates us adequately, and gets Brandon his contract, and have him pass a physical.

I think this is all pie-in-the-sky, and when it all shakes out Brandon will still be here next season. . .unless all those things do indeed line up.

Agree...and this is just B Marsh trying to roll the dice..hope he can get more money by a threat to the Broncos and its not going to pay off for him.

Look for Marshall to be here next season, play his balls out, and then.....maybe then get the contract he wants. Until then he is hurt....has off the field problems and his best chance at playing next year is here in Denver.

NY might need a head case WR...how about Marshall for one of their DE?

WARHORSE
06-16-2009, 08:03 PM
First of all, we drafted two firsts and three seconds in the draft. Thats five top 64 picks.

As for Brandon, accomodating him does not mean NOT accomodating the Broncos.

So, if he thinks hes worth top five money, then he needs to find top five value in a trade.

Its the same as the Clinton Portis trade............go get us this so called 'worth' that you have, and we'll make it happen.

I still think Brandon may play for the Broncos next year.



My thought is this: If theres another off the field incident or two in his future............I hope we trade him and get the house.


If his future is going to be incident free..........I hope he stays cause hes a beast and yet to fulfill his ability.

WARHORSE
06-16-2009, 08:06 PM
BTW, if Brandons hip isnt right, its not the correct so called move to try and play his hand now, cause hes not gonna be able to hide any problems.

Hes gonna have to pass a physical, and any team that trades for him is gonna go over him with a microscope.

lex
06-16-2009, 08:08 PM
First of all, we drafted two firsts and three seconds in the draft. Thats five top 64 picks.

As for Brandon, accomodating him does not mean NOT accomodating the Broncos.

So, if he thinks hes worth top five money, then he needs to find top five value in a trade.

Its the same as the Clinton Portis trade............go get us this so called 'worth' that you have, and we'll make it happen.

I still think Brandon may play for the Broncos next year.



My thought is this: If theres another off the field incident or two in his future............I hope we trade him and get the house.


If his future is going to be incident free..........I hope he stays cause hes a beast and yet to fulfill his ability.

No kidding...if only we had a crystal ball.

dogfish
06-16-2009, 08:14 PM
"Baby T.O." in all the best and worst sense of the name. I love his talent and on the field attitude, but just like Cutler I don't want someone there who does not want to be there. Hopefully we can find a way to compliment Royal, maybe Knowshon Moreno will make us a punch you in the mouth running team again.

I'm still gonna be there on Sunday, but I'm not sure I'm gonna recognize the team this year! :lol:

Perhaps it is for the best, I am super curious to how our season will play out now. Part of me misses our potent pro-bowlers all ready, part of me thinks that if we are going to change we have to overhaul the whole damn engine. Looks like thats what we are doing! Thank God for a relatively weak division, there is still hope...


i found your guy that wants to be here. . . .



http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6411/53708285.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/53708285.png/)



i hear we've already offered him a deal. . . . he's a real team player-- just the kind of guy our new coaching staff is looking for. . .

MOtorboat
06-16-2009, 08:15 PM
i found your guy that wants to be here. . . .



http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6411/53708285.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/53708285.png/)



i hear we've already offered him a deal. . . . he's a real team player-- just the kind of guy our new coaching staff is looking for. . .

I thought I deleted that one. Crap, it got out.

No, the rumors are not true. I am not a Denver Bronco.

MasterShake
06-16-2009, 08:19 PM
i found your guy that wants to be here. . . .



http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6411/53708285.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/53708285.png/)



i hear we've already offered him a deal. . . . he's a real team player-- just the kind of guy our new coaching staff is looking for. . .

We should try to get Al Bundy. He won some big games with Polk High!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/275pxAl_Bundy_Football.jpg

elsid13
06-16-2009, 08:20 PM
Can Brandon Marshall even pass a physical if we trade him?

:ranger:

Bowlen can wish him luck, but the stars are going to have to line up perfectly for us to get a deal that compensates us adequately, and gets Brandon his contract, and have him pass a physical.

I think this is all pie-in-the-sky, and when it all shakes out Brandon will still be here next season. . .unless all those things do indeed line up.

Since he played all season on bad hip (caught 100s balls), and the surgical procedure was successful why wouldn't pass a physical????

Denver Native (Carol)
06-16-2009, 08:23 PM
Since he played all season on bad hip (caught 100s balls), and the surgical procedure was successful why wouldn't pass a physical????

Not sure how this is determined - even though the surgery was successful, will he be able to go thru a training camp, pre season, etc. Possibly some team might take him, and wait on him to be 100%. I don't know.

lex
06-16-2009, 08:27 PM
Not sure how this is determined - even though the surgery was successful, will he be able to go thru a training camp, pre season, etc. Possibly some team might take him, and wait on him to be 100%. I don't know.

Only if you get him those delightful candies...until you get him those delightful candies, you won't know.

red98
06-16-2009, 08:42 PM
The sheriff has come to town and closed down the Country Club. Marshall has
taken out, looking for another Country Club. He joins others (see Cutler) in that
venture.

Meanwhile, what is taking place here in Denver is the formation of a FOOTBALL
TEAM . . . a mob of BALLERS who will LINE UP AND PLAY FOOTBALL.

Be sure to latch the door on the way out, Brandon. We want to control who is
coming back in . . .

-----


Meh, hopechange

elsid13
06-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Not sure how this is determined - even though the surgery was successful, will he be able to go thru a training camp, pre season, etc. Possibly some team might take him, and wait on him to be 100%. I don't know.

He walking without crutches and in rehab and was schedule to be ready to go next month for camp. People are making to big a deal about that hip, it just excuse to bang on him for no reason. I have strange feeling that Marshall will become no talent effeminate wide receiver in some posters' minds if he is traded.

Denver Native (Carol)
06-16-2009, 08:46 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2346/Buckle-in-for-another-stalemate-in-Denver.html

June 16, 2009 8:10 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

The Brandon Marshall-Denver Broncos stalemate is officially on with both sides prrovide differing versions of events.

Marshall's agent, Kennard McGuire, told ESPN's Michael Smith: "There was a meeting with Mr. (Pat) Bowlen and Brandon did ask to be traded. He was told by ownership that the team would do everything in its power to accommodate those wishes. We do feel that a change of scenery is not only important but necessary."

Marshall backed up McGuire's claim on his website.

Denver coach Josh McDaniels countered by telling ESPN's Ed Werder this: "We met after Pat's meeting with Brandon Marshall, and we've decided that we will continue to have a dialogue with Brandon and his representative, but we are looking forward to having Brandon at training camp,"

Buckle in, it doesn't seem like these two sides are on the same page. Marshall wants out. The Broncos don't want to trade him. As long as Denver doesn't want to trade Marshall, he won't be traded. The Broncos wanted to trade Jay Cutler and they did.

They want Marshall to be part of the team in 2009. And unless they change their mind, Marshall will be in Denver in 2009. If not, he'll hold out and not get paid more than $2 million. That is unlikely to happen.

Now we know Marshall wants out. But we also now Denver wants to keep him. The Broncos have all the leverage here, don't expect Marshall to get his wish.

NickelTG
06-16-2009, 08:51 PM
Maybe if they can get a cheap deal for Eddie Royal........Why not unass moreno?? Let's leave no stone unturned here.."i'll take care of it"

Denver Native (Carol)
06-16-2009, 08:53 PM
Also videos on this link discussing this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4261327


The Denver Broncos said they are aware of a radio report that said holdout receiver Brandon Marshall asked team owner Pat Bowlen for a trade during a meeting Friday.

Adam Schefter, who will join ESPN in August, reported Monday on KOA in Denver that Marshall requested the trade during a meeting Friday.

Marshall's agent, Kennard McGuire, confirmed that to ESPN's Michael Smith on Tuesday: "There was a meeting with Mr. Bowlen and Brandon did ask to be traded. He was told by ownership that the team would do everything in its power to accommodate those wishes. We do feel that a change of scenery is not only important but necessary."

According to a source, Smith reported, Marshall has met with Bowlen more than once in the past week and on both occasions expressed his desire to be dealt.

McGuire had no comment on the number of meetings that took place.

Marshall posted a message Tuesday on his blog, www.bmarshall15.com/blog, making it explicitly clear he expects to be somewhere other than Denver before the season starts.

"To whom it may concern. Life is filled with change, and where I am in my life now change is probably best. It's hard leaving an organization ran by one of the best owners in all of sports, and someone who's been there for me through my ups and downs. The hardest thing was hearing Mr. B wish me luck in the future, but we both came to the conclusion that this is probably the best thing for me to grow on and off the field.

"I thank the Denver fans who embraced my emotion and play on the field and showing me love every time I step outside my door."

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels would not say whether Marshall requested a trade, but he told ESPN's Ed Werder on Tuesday that internal meetings conducted after the holdout receiver's discussions with Bowlen suggest Denver plans to keep the player.

"We met after Pat's meeting with Brandon Marshall, and we've decided that we will continue to have a dialogue with Brandon and his representative, but we are looking forward to having Brandon at training camp," McDaniels said to Werder.

Marshall skipped Denver's mandatory minicamp Friday through Sunday. He is protesting because he has medical trust issues and he also wants a pay raise. Marshall's contract expires after next season.

The receiver had hip surgery in March and won't be able to practice until training camp starts late next month. Still, he was required to rehabilitate at the facility during minicamp. Denver can fine him for missing the sessions.

Marshall is entering his fourth season and made his first Pro Bowl in 2008. He has had back-to-back 100-plus catch seasons.

The Marshall situation is another issue for McDaniels. The former New England offensive coordinator took over in the offseason for Mike Shanahan, who was fired after 14 years with the Broncos.

McDaniels' tenure in Denver got off to a rocky start when Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler was traded to Chicago. The saga began when Cutler caught wind that the new coach was considering trading him in a package for Matt Cassel, who starred for McDaniels in New England last season.

lex
06-16-2009, 08:57 PM
Also videos on this link discussing this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4261327


The Denver Broncos said they are aware of a radio report that said holdout receiver Brandon Marshall asked team owner Pat Bowlen for a trade during a meeting Friday.

Adam Schefter, who will join ESPN in August, reported Monday on KOA in Denver that Marshall requested the trade during a meeting Friday.

Marshall's agent, Kennard McGuire, confirmed that to ESPN's Michael Smith on Tuesday: "There was a meeting with Mr. Bowlen and Brandon did ask to be traded. He was told by ownership that the team would do everything in its power to accommodate those wishes. We do feel that a change of scenery is not only important but necessary."

According to a source, Smith reported, Marshall has met with Bowlen more than once in the past week and on both occasions expressed his desire to be dealt.

McGuire had no comment on the number of meetings that took place.

Marshall posted a message Tuesday on his blog, www.bmarshall15.com/blog, making it explicitly clear he expects to be somewhere other than Denver before the season starts.

"To whom it may concern. Life is filled with change, and where I am in my life now change is probably best. It's hard leaving an organization ran by one of the best owners in all of sports, and someone who's been there for me through my ups and downs. The hardest thing was hearing Mr. B wish me luck in the future, but we both came to the conclusion that this is probably the best thing for me to grow on and off the field.

"I thank the Denver fans who embraced my emotion and play on the field and showing me love every time I step outside my door."

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels would not say whether Marshall requested a trade, but he told ESPN's Ed Werder on Tuesday that internal meetings conducted after the holdout receiver's discussions with Bowlen suggest Denver plans to keep the player.

"We met after Pat's meeting with Brandon Marshall, and we've decided that we will continue to have a dialogue with Brandon and his representative, but we are looking forward to having Brandon at training camp," McDaniels said to Werder.

Marshall skipped Denver's mandatory minicamp Friday through Sunday. He is protesting because he has medical trust issues and he also wants a pay raise. Marshall's contract expires after next season.

The receiver had hip surgery in March and won't be able to practice until training camp starts late next month. Still, he was required to rehabilitate at the facility during minicamp. Denver can fine him for missing the sessions.

Marshall is entering his fourth season and made his first Pro Bowl in 2008. He has had back-to-back 100-plus catch seasons.

The Marshall situation is another issue for McDaniels. The former New England offensive coordinator took over in the offseason for Mike Shanahan, who was fired after 14 years with the Broncos.

McDaniels' tenure in Denver got off to a rocky start when Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler was traded to Chicago. The saga began when Cutler caught wind that the new coach was considering trading him in a package for Matt Cassel, who starred for McDaniels in New England last season.



We dont know this to be true.

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 10:31 PM
We dont know this to be true.

Yes....


...everybody but YOU do. :laugh:

Timeline....read it and weep.

dogfish
06-16-2009, 10:32 PM
"We want Brandon Marshall here in Denver. He's not going anywhere (at least, not until we can get a trade worked out, that is)."


dogfish say white man speak with forked tongue. . . .





He walking without crutches and in rehab and was schedule to be ready to go next month for camp. People are making to big a deal about that hip, it just excuse to bang on him for no reason. I have strange feeling that Marshall will become no talent effeminate wide receiver in some posters' minds if he is traded.


don't you know? anyone that doesn't want to play for denver sucks. . . .

WARHORSE
06-16-2009, 10:41 PM
Yes....


...everybody but YOU do. :laugh:

Timeline....read it and weep.



Count me in that group.

Brandon was on TV talkin about how he backed up McD and was moving forward without Cutler. He wished Cutler the best..............





BADOW!!!!!!





Now the story is changed.:confused:

slim
06-16-2009, 10:56 PM
Bye, bye beotch.

Dude is a clown. Only a matter of time until his pimp hand acts up again. Dude is a suspension waiting to happen.

lex
06-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Yes....


...everybody but YOU do. :laugh:

Timeline....read it and weep.

Tone it down.

topscribe
06-16-2009, 11:00 PM
Tone it down.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif

-----

Bad Intentions
06-16-2009, 11:00 PM
The most troubling thing about that is his reference to Bowlen. Its not uncommon for people to posture with stuff like this but I kind of doubt that he would refer to Bowlen if Bowlen hadnt actually said something like that.

Even more troubling is Bowlen and Marshall being on the same page and McD being in some other book entirely. Bowlen understands and is willing to trade Marshall and McD is over in the next county claiming that he will be waiting for Marshall to show up. And, for those that are going to say he's toting the company line to help trade value, Josh McDaniels doesn't play those game (per his own conversation post '09 draft). What you see is what you get. If he says he expects BMarsh to be at camp, you can take that at face value. And you can clearly see that is totally different from what Bowlen and Marshall believe. More coming on this, Bowlen stepped in on this one for a reason. My guess is there is a little more fire to this smoke.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 06:49 AM
Who's next? I wonder who else will want out?

Does it matter? The way I see it, if you dont want to be here because your feelings got hurt or because you think you deserve to be treated differently, then feel free to leave. McD is running a TEAM and I like the attitude. Notice that you dont see anything like this and never hear a negative word from the team-oriented PROFESSIONALS on the roster. Why isn't Champ mad that McD brought in a corner and drafted one? Why isn't Dawkins mad that he drafted 2 safeties? Where's DJ complaining that his contract sucks? How about Cutler's best friend and the most rumored guy to be out f a job, Sheffler? Where's all the bad-mouthing and complaining from him?

These are the guys i want on my team

Den21vsBal19
06-17-2009, 06:58 AM
Does it matter? The way I see it, if you dont want to be here because your feelings got hurt or because you think you deserve to be treated differently, then feel free to leave. McD is running a TEAM and I like the attitude. Notice that you dont see anything like this and never hear a negative word from the team-oriented PROFESSIONALS on the roster. Why isn't Champ mad that McD brought in a corner and drafted one? Why isn't Dawkins mad that he drafted 2 safeties? Where's DJ complaining that his contract sucks? How about Cutler's best friend and the most rumored guy to be out f a job, Sheffler? Where's all the bad-mouthing and complaining from him?

These are the guys i want on my team
From what I've seen, Sheff seems to have been a consumate pro despite the trade rumours around the draft.

Marshall, due to injuries & off field problems, should be keeping his head down, studying the new playbook and preparing for the new season instead of jerking off, and worrying about his contract. IIRC, this is the 3rd straight off-season that he's missed considerable time, didn't Shanny call him out on it?

lex
06-17-2009, 07:58 AM
Does it matter? The way I see it, if you dont want to be here because your feelings got hurt or because you think you deserve to be treated differently, then feel free to leave. McD is running a TEAM and I like the attitude. Notice that you dont see anything like this and never hear a negative word from the team-oriented PROFESSIONALS on the roster. Why isn't Champ mad that McD brought in a corner and drafted one? Why isn't Dawkins mad that he drafted 2 safeties? Where's DJ complaining that his contract sucks? How about Cutler's best friend and the most rumored guy to be out f a job, Sheffler? Where's all the bad-mouthing and complaining from him?

These are the guys i want on my team

This is nonsense. Its not limited to these two reasons. Youre basing your response on a false choice. Guys may simply not want to be on the team because they dont trust McDaniels. Feeling that way doesnt require wanting to be treated special or having your feelings hurt. These guys are pros. Theyre also men and a head coach asks a lot of them. If they cant trust him in return, it shouldnt be so shocking that some may want to leave and actually try.

lex
06-17-2009, 08:43 AM
Has anyone considered the hip thing might be sort of setting up a possible negligence lawsuit to hedge against a loss in value on a potential new contract?

Denver Native (Carol)
06-17-2009, 08:48 AM
I will be posting the following in a few of the Marshall threads:

Here is a video - Gary Miller speaking on the Marshall situation. Gary stated that when Marshall put up what he did on his website - he did NOT put up the following - which Bowlen said to him:

"Stay out of trouble and perform well on the field, and he will get his deal right here next year"

Miller's take - Brandon Marshall wants to leave so he can get his money right now.

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=58461@kcnc.dayport.com

SoCalImport
06-17-2009, 08:50 AM
This is nonsense. Its not limited to these two reasons. Youre basing your response on a false choice. Guys may simply not want to be on the team because they dont trust McDaniels. Feeling that way doesnt require wanting to be treated special or having your feelings hurt. These guys are pros. Theyre also men and a head coach asks a lot of them. If they cant trust him in return, it shouldnt be so shocking that some may want to leave and actually try.

Why is it that it's the players who've been tagged as having maturity issues that are the problem?
It's not just a label given by the media, but by obviously questionable decisions by both Cutty and B.Marsh. The only other bronco that's come out saying anything about Coach McDaniels was Scheff (cutlers best pal on the team), who is now on board.

MasterShake
06-17-2009, 09:00 AM
This is nonsense. Its not limited to these two reasons. Youre basing your response on a false choice. Guys may simply not want to be on the team because they dont trust McDaniels. Feeling that way doesnt require wanting to be treated special or having your feelings hurt. These guys are pros. Theyre also men and a head coach asks a lot of them. If they cant trust him in return, it shouldnt be so shocking that some may want to leave and actually try.

Thats true to an extent, but a true Pro would count his blessings and also honor his contract (of which he has a year left). Prove yourself and/or give the new coach a CHANCE before you ask for a trade. Brandon of all people should be counting his blessings that half of his season is not suspended on the bench, the final year of your contract should be spent playing for a raise or raising your value as a Free Agent.

I think his agent is giving him some bad advice. Someone else pointed out that he also seemed upset with Cutler leaving and seemed to support McDaniels. This sudden change of heart points to two things IMO- his suspension being lifted and a bloodthirsty agent.

He may not trust the coach, but this seems extreme to me considering he hasn't had a full camp with him yet even. Who knows, I sure as hell don't! :lol:

I'd still rather have Brandon here. Hell, I still wish Cutler was here. Alas I am just a lowly fan who has no control over any of this except on game day if I am lucky enough to spend hundreds of dollars on tickets and merchandise to be loud enough in the stands to disrupt the opposing offense for a false start.

I can't speak for everyone here, but for me the worst thing is supporting a team full of individuals who don't seem to give a crap about me. Brandon IS a star player, but he should realize that no other franchise fan base will love him like we do. Not only that, he is complaining about getting paid a few million dollars to play a GAME? Somehow a pay raise will make him happier and a better athlete?

I would have no problem giving him $10 million a year if somehow "The Beast" could have stepped up with Cutler and won one damn game out of 3 in the final stretch last year. And no one here can tell me that our defense wasn't good enough to slow down Buffalo (or even the Raiders at home earlier in the season) so our #2 RANKED OFFENSE could pile on the points and bury the other team.

No, instead we pile on yards and get shut down in the red zone. Thats why stats don't matter for crap in this league. Where was Cutler's laser arm then? Where was Brandon Marshall? Cutler was throwing "harder than Elway" to the wrong team in the endzone and killing drives, and Brandon was dropping balls or fumbling away key possessions.

If they were Pros they would have been at the stadium 4 hours early like Manning and Harrison playing pitch and catch and working on timing so in the GAME they would have destroyed the other team's defense. That would have PROVED to me he deserves a new contract, and we would have made the playoffs. Hell, if that happened maybe everyone would still be here (Shanny included).

As it stands, we had a coach who couldn't muster his team for one lousy win because he didn't think he was playing for his job. We had a QB that would rather talk crap to Philip Rivers than outplay him. And now, we have a receiver that while talented, may be more trouble than he is worth.

We now have a new coach, new team, a potentially explosive new RB in Moreno and hopefully a new attitude. I don't care what our record is next year as long as I see a damn team out there playing for the fans and each other. Losing to the Chargers 52-21 for the AFC West was the low point of the year for me. Losing Shanny, Cutler, and Marshall was not.

Maybe I'm a homer. Maybe I don't know jack about football. All I know is that the season is right around the corner and no matter who suits up for my Broncos they have my support because they are MY TEAM!:salute:

lex
06-17-2009, 09:01 AM
Why is it that it's the players who've been tagged as having maturity issues that are the problem?
It's not just a label given by the media, but by obviously questionable decisions by both Cutty and B.Marsh. The only other bronco that's come out saying anything about Coach McDaniels was Scheff (cutlers best pal on the team), who is now on board.


Most of our players were either veteran scrubs or young and unproven. Cutler and Marshall were both young and proven. We had a limited number of guys with that kind of leverage. Thats why it was important for trust to be a two-way street. As much as a lot of us would like to believe that its all about the power of authority since that is what confronts a lot of us, the reality is that if people had the same leverage, they might be looking to leave. Also, there are problems with real world comparisons. For one, entering the workforce in most jobs doesnt require entry through a draft. You can actually choose who you want to work for assuming they also want you. The NFL has a draft. And contracts are involved. The real world doesnt typically have employment stipulated by contracts. People are free to leave at any point usually and go somewhere else.

But back to my main point, trust is really a two way street and failure to realize this was a gaffe by the new regime.

Reidman
06-17-2009, 09:02 AM
I keep hearing Mike Goldberg, the UFC announcer........"and it is ALL OVER!"....

lex
06-17-2009, 09:04 AM
Thats true to an extent, but a true Pro would count his blessings and also honor his contract (of which he has a year left). Prove yourself and/or give the new coach a CHANCE before you ask for a trade. Brandon of all people should be counting his blessings that half of his season is not suspended on the bench, the final year of your contract should be spent playing for a raise or raising your value as a Free Agent.

I think his agent is giving him some bad advice. Someone else pointed out that he also seemed upset with Cutler leaving and seemed to support McDaniels. This sudden change of heart points to two things IMO- his suspension being lifted and a bloodthirsty agent.

He may not trust the coach, but this seems extreme to me considering he hasn't had a full camp with him yet even. Who knows, I sure as hell don't! :lol:

I'd still rather have Brandon here. Hell, I still wish Cutler was here. Alas I am just a lowly fan who has no control over any of this except on game day if I am lucky enough to spend hundreds of dollars on tickets and merchandise to be loud enough in the stands to disrupt the opposing offense for a false start.

I can't speak for everyone here, but for me the worst thing is supporting a team full of individuals who don't seem to give a crap about me. Brandon IS a star player, but he should realize that no other franchise fan base will love him like we do. Not only that, he is complaining about getting paid a few million dollars to play a GAME? Somehow a pay raise will make him happier and a better athlete?

I would have no problem giving him $10 million a year if somehow "The Beast" could have stepped up with Cutler and won one damn game out of 3 in the final stretch last year. And no one here can tell me that our defense wasn't good enough to slow down Buffalo (or even the Raiders at home earlier in the season) so our #2 RANKED OFFENSE could pile on the points and bury the other team.

No, instead we pile on yards and get shut down in the red zone. Thats why stats don't matter for crap in this league. Where was Cutler's laser arm then? Where was Brandon Marshall? Cutler was throwing "harder than Elway" to the wrong team in the endzone and killing drives, and Brandon was dropping balls or fumbling away key possessions.

If they were Pros they would have been at the stadium 4 hours early like Manning and Harrison playing pitch and catch and working on timing so in the GAME they would have destroyed the other team's defense. That would have PROVED to me he deserves a new contract, and we would have made the playoffs. Hell, if that happened maybe everyone would still be here (Shanny included).

As it stands, we had a coach who couldn't muster his team for one lousy win because he didn't think he was playing for his job. We had a QB that would rather talk crap to Philip Rivers than outplay him. And now, we have a receiver that while talented, may be more trouble than he is worth.

We now have a new coach, new team, a potentially explosive new RB in Moreno and hopefully a new attitude. I don't care what our record is next year as long as I see a damn team out there playing for the fans and each other. Losing to the Chargers 52-21 for the AFC West was the low point of the year for me. Losing Shanny, Cutler, and Marshall was not.

Maybe I'm a homer. Maybe I don't know jack about football. All I know is that the season is right around the corner and no matter who suits up for my Broncos they have my support because they are MY TEAM!:salute:

If youre speaking in terms of the truest sense of the word, "professional" at its very basic level means that a player is playing for money. Beyond that you venture into the realm of assigned meaning.

MasterShake
06-17-2009, 09:16 AM
If youre speaking in terms of the truest sense of the word, "professional" at its very basic level means that a player is playing for money. Beyond that you venture into the realm of assigned meaning.

I meant "Pro" as in terms of conduct and by my definition. We don't know the whole story, so I can just go by what I think should happen. So yeah, it is assigned meaning on my part but I expect a little more from a dude who gets paid millions of dollars to catch a ball.

I know its a business and if he wants his money, he can have it and he deserves it to an extent. My main point is how can you ask for more money as a pro without results? I'm a professional graphic and web designer (ie I get paid), but if I fail to produce for my clients I don't ask for a new contract. Thats why I brought up his stats. Who cares is you have 100 catches? We needed TD's last year to get into the playoffs and you didn't produce. Thats like me making a website that has no working buttons and saying, "Well, I made this beautiful site that is all polish but doesn't do crap. Give me $5 million dollars."

I don't claim to know everything about the NFL, but I know what I like and I don't like this. Difference of perspective is all, you don't have to agree with me. I will still sleep tonight, unless my baby wakes me up! :lol:

lex
06-17-2009, 09:30 AM
I meant "Pro" as in terms of conduct and by my definition. We don't know the whole story, so I can just go by what I think should happen. So yeah, it is assigned meaning on my part but I expect a little more from a dude who gets paid millions of dollars to catch a ball.

I know its a business and if he wants his money, he can have it and he deserves it to an extent. My main point is how can you ask for more money as a pro without results? I'm a professional graphic and web designer (ie I get paid), but if I fail to produce for my clients I don't ask for a new contract. Thats why I brought up his stats. Who cares is you have 100 catches? We needed TD's last year to get into the playoffs and you didn't produce. Thats like me making a website that has no working buttons and saying, "Well, I made this beautiful site that is all polish but doesn't do crap. Give me $5 million dollars."

I don't claim to know everything about the NFL, but I know what I like and I don't like this. Difference of perspective is all, you don't have to agree with me. I will still sleep tonight, unless my baby wakes me up! :lol:

His lack of TDs is more of a reflection of a lack of balance in our overall offense. The guy is actually great at the toe-tapping sideline catches that you often see on fades and such. But if youre one dimensional, teams, especailly good ones, can roll their coverage to you and make you beat them some other way.

Northman
06-17-2009, 09:38 AM
Why is it that it's the players who've been tagged as having maturity issues that are the problem?
It's not just a label given by the media, but by obviously questionable decisions by both Cutty and B.Marsh. The only other bronco that's come out saying anything about Coach McDaniels was Scheff (cutlers best pal on the team), who is now on board.

Excellent point. Thus far the only players to really have a beef are two of the more ego oriented players we had on the team to begin with. And as you said both had maturity issues to go along with that. I can only look back at when Brandon was going to do his endzone celebration in a big game only to have a veteran like Stokely come up and say "wtf are you doing?". Brandon just has no common sense about anything right now. Im sure McDaniels is not all peaches and roses as well but you know what? I think these players are in a culture shock right now because Shanahan babied them for far too long. Now, they have a coach who expects much more from them and they dont like it.

MasterShake
06-17-2009, 09:40 AM
His lack of TDs is more of a reflection of a lack of balance in our overall offense. The guy is actually great at the toe-tapping sideline catches that you often see on fades and such. But if youre one dimensional, teams, especailly good ones, can roll their coverage to you and make you beat them some other way.

Yup, I can agree with you there. Even I forget how crazy it was to lose all our RB's (and our identity) last year, but still I wish Cutler and Marshall could have found a way to step up. They were good enough, IMO.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 10:43 AM
This is nonsense. Its not limited to these two reasons. Youre basing your response on a false choice. Guys may simply not want to be on the team because they dont trust McDaniels. Feeling that way doesnt require wanting to be treated special or having your feelings hurt. These guys are pros. Theyre also men and a head coach asks a lot of them. If they cant trust him in return, it shouldnt be so shocking that some may want to leave and actually try.

Of course it's not limited to two reasons. You or a player can aonjure up ANY reason that fits the argument and spin it to sound good. Just like the whole trust issue. We've heard a million times that the whole debacle with the Cutler/McD scenario did not go down the way Cutler, his agent and the media spun it...yet, people still insist on believing that because it fits their argument and goves them a reason to dislike McDaniels. They need that reason so they have leverage. Trust? What has McD done to lose anyone's trust? He's done what he can to build a TEAM and install options to make it succeed. Yeah...I can see where trust would be lost with that guy.

The only travesty to occur so far is losing Cutler and based on how we saw his true colors come out, I dont even think that was such a bad thing anymore. If McD had as much to do with getting rid of him as the media says he did, then kudos to him. Maybe he saw what we are just now seeing and realized it wasnt for the best of the team.

lex
06-17-2009, 10:52 AM
Of course it's not limited to two reasons. You or a player can aonjure up ANY reason that fits the argument and spin it to sound good. Just like the whole trust issue. We've heard a million times that the whole debacle with the Cutler/McD scenario did not go down the way Cutler, his agent and the media spun it...yet, people still insist on believing that because it fits their argument and goves them a reason to dislike McDaniels. They need that reason so they have leverage. Trust? What has McD done to lose anyone's trust? He's done what he can to build a TEAM and install options to make it succeed. Yeah...I can see where trust would be lost with that guy.

The only travesty to occur so far is losing Cutler and based on how we saw his true colors come out, I dont even think that was such a bad thing anymore. If McD had as much to do with getting rid of him as the media says he did, then kudos to him. Maybe he saw what we are just now seeing and realized it wasnt for the best of the team.

If anything is being tailored to fit ones view, it was your myopic post, which I responded to.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 10:57 AM
If anything is being tailored to fit ones view, it was your myopic post, which I responded to.

You mean the one where I asked why only 2 prima donnas were complaining and everyone else, regardless of opinion, was acting professional? Yeah, that was completely biased and without merit

lex
06-17-2009, 11:02 AM
You mean the one where I asked why only 2 prima donnas were complaining and everyone else, regardless of opinion, was acting professional? Yeah, that was completely biased and without merit

...which was a statement loaded with a lot of assumptions. You dont know to what degree everyone is accepting of the new regime. You could easily be mistaking "acting professional" for "not having the same leverage the two prima donnas have". For all we know, Tim Crowder hates the new regime and would be pulling the same thing if he could. But he doesnt really have that kind of clout. He could ask to be traded or released and then be cut only to sit a while and then receive offers to play for less than what he is getting now on his 2nd round contract. Furthermore, why is it when a player treats it like its a business, theyre prima donnas but when an organization jerks a player around, "its a business". There seems to be that heavy handed hypocrisy built into your post.

Shazam!
06-17-2009, 11:21 AM
You assume a lot too Lex.

Maybe players aren't too happy with the new regime, and they miss Shanahan's club med atmosphere that wasn't as hard on them.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 11:22 AM
...which was a statement loaded with a lot of assumptions. You dont know to what degree everyone is accepting of the new regime. You could easily be mistaking "acting professional" for "not having the same leverage the two prima donnas have". For all we know, Tim Crowder hates the new regime and would be pulling the same thing if he could. But he doesnt really have that kind of clout. He could ask to be traded or released and then be cut only to sit a while and then receive offers to play for less than what he is getting now on his 2nd round contract. Furthermore, why is it when a player treats it like its a business, theyre prima donnas but when an organization jerks a player around, "its a business". There seems to be that heavy handed hypocrisy built into your post.

Asking a player to fulfill a contract they agreed to is "jerking them around"? Interesting.

A player having WHAT THEY PERCIEVE as leverage to request a larger contract equates to having leverage to demand a trade and sell out their teammates when someone else doesnt see it that way? Interesting.

Maybe you should try taking off the "I HATE THE BRONCOS MANAGEMENT AT ALL COSTS" glasses. Maybe you'll see there are legitimate perspectives other than your own jaded opinions.

weazel
06-17-2009, 11:35 AM
http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=142#more-142

Clearing the Air…
To whom it may concern. Life is filled with change, and where I am in my life now change is probably best. It’s hard leaving an organization ran by one of the best owners in all of sports, and someone who’s been there for me through my ups and downs. The hardest thing was hearing Mr. B wish me luck in the future, but we both came to the conclusion that this is probably the best thing for me to grow on and off the field.

I thank the Denver fans who embraced my emotion and play on the field and showing me love every time I step outside my door

I left an eloquent message for him on his blog

**** UPDATE ****
didn't make it past the moderators...

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Asking a player to fulfill a contract they agreed to is "jerking them around"? Interesting.

A player having WHAT THEY PERCIEVE as leverage to request a larger contract equates to having leverage to demand a trade and sell out their teammates when someone else doesnt see it that way? Interesting.

Maybe you should try taking off the "I HATE THE BRONCOS MANAGEMENT AT ALL COSTS" glasses. Maybe you'll see there are legitimate perspectives other than your own jaded opinions.

As I start to settle down just a bit :) I'm starting to think both sides are asshats.

Jay and Brandon are being whiny bitches

Pat and Josh are doing a shit job of management.

The real losers here are the fans and vets like Champ and Dawkins.

Shazam!
06-17-2009, 11:40 AM
The real losers here are the fans and vets like Champ and Dawkins.

The real losers are Marshall and Cutler who don't want to be a part of this organization. **** them.

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:42 AM
The real losers are Marshall and Cutler who don't want to be a part of this organization. **** them.

They will both get their $ one way or another.

Vets like Dawkins and Champ see their last best chance of a SB run torn apart by piss poor managment.

Shazam!
06-17-2009, 11:44 AM
How is Marshall's debacle because of piss poor management?

lex
06-17-2009, 11:46 AM
Asking a player to fulfill a contract they agreed to is "jerking them around"? Interesting.

Its not reciprocal.


A player having WHAT THEY PERCIEVE as leverage to request a larger contract equates to having leverage to demand a trade and sell out their teammates when someone else doesnt see it that way? Interesting.

Again, the hypocrisy. Why is it when a player decides to hold out for more money, the player is selling out his teammates (which is bunk...they all understand its a business) but when the organization doesnt spend money on keeping good players, theyre not selling out the team or the fans...guys like you call it being shrewed?


Maybe you should try taking off the "I HATE THE BRONCOS MANAGEMENT AT ALL COSTS" glasses. Maybe you'll see there are legitimate perspectives other than your own jaded opinions.

Not really. Name a player who is currently a free agent who is an comparable substitute for Marshall. You cant because there are none. So, is there really a better way for that money to be spent that will result in winning this year? Not really. If Pats just going to not pay Marshall and sit on his money, he's basically writing this season off.

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:47 AM
How is Marshall's debacle because of piss poor management?

Marshalls wagon was attached to Cutler. If Coach McD had handled that better the Marshall issue would have never came about.

lex
06-17-2009, 11:50 AM
You assume a lot too Lex.

Maybe players aren't too happy with the new regime, and they miss Shanahan's club med atmosphere that wasn't as hard on them.

Not really. Ive actually acknowledged a broad range of possibilities. There are things I find more believable though.

Shazam!
06-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Newsflash- Marshall is not Rod Smith. He has so many issues. How anyone can blame management for being skeptical on investing millions in a questionable asset is not realistic.

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:55 AM
Newsflash- Marshall is not Rod Smith. He has so many issues. How anyone can blame management for being skeptical on investing millions in a questionable asset is not realistic.

I agree Marshall is a head case. Yet it is the managements responsiblity to produce a product worth watching. Being a sucessful HC in the NFL requires you to deal with people and to date Ive seen nothing to indicate that McD is anything but a total failure at handling people.

Again if McD had not fumbled the Jay issue earlier my guess is Marshall is in camp and earns his payday next year.

What if the thought of catching ducks from Orton does not give Marshall great hopes of producing huge numbers in a contract year.

And yes I am just guessing like everyone else.

Northman
06-17-2009, 11:56 AM
They will both get their $ one way or another.

Vets like Dawkins and Champ see their last best chance of a SB run torn apart by piss poor managment.


Too early to tell honestly.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 11:57 AM
I agree Marshall is a head case. Yet it is the managements responsiblity to produce a product worth watching. Being a sucessful HC in the NFL requires you to deal with people and to date Ive seen nothing to indicate that McD is anything but a total failure at handling people.

Again if McD had not fumbled the Jay issue earlier my guess is Marshall is in camp and earns his payday next year.

What if the thought of catching ducks from Orton does not give Marshall great hopes of producing huge numbers in a contract year.

And yes I am just guessing like everyone else.

No offense intended, but thats putting it mildly. Pure speculation all the way around

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
No offense intended, but thats putting it mildly. Pure speculation all the way around

not offeneded at all. Both sides of this issue on the forums are speculating.

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
Too early to tell honestly.

Agree but its June what else are we gonna do besides take sides and do interweb battle :)

honz
06-17-2009, 12:02 PM
I'm extremely disappointed in Marshall. He is officially a douche bag in my book. If he is a Bronco next year he will have to work hard to regain my respect. I really don't want to lose him, but I also don't want a whining star receiver that destroys team chemistry.

GEM
06-17-2009, 12:03 PM
Bunch of ass kissers leaving a bunch of messages to kiss his ass and inflate his ego...just what he needs. :rolleyes:

I wonder if they are deleting all the disparaging remarks like:

Hey dumbass, keep your hands off your girlfriend and you'd have your huge payday.

Take some responsibility for the situation you are in. You didn't perform at a high enough level in college to go 1st or 2nd round, then you do perform at a high NFL level but can't keep yourself out of your own way long enough for a franchise to even consider throwing big money your direction.

But instead...let's just kiss the guy's ass. :fuming:

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 12:08 PM
I guess a cleveland area tv station said that according to PFT, the Browns are talking about sending us Cribbs and a draft pick for Marshall. I'm going to look for the link.

It was on PFT this morning I think. I'd do Cribbs and a 1st nothing less.

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 12:09 PM
BABY T.O. I guess that's what we knew we were getting into

drewloc
06-17-2009, 12:10 PM
Found the link to the article about Marshall to the browns.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/16/brandon-to-the-browns/

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 12:10 PM
Why do we need Josh Cribbs?

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Good question Coach

Of course Mike Florio is not exactly the best source LMAO

IMO of course :)

Dreadnought
06-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Found the link to the article about Marshall to the browns.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/16/brandon-to-the-browns/

I'd take that deal in a (New York) minute. I love Josh Cribbs

CoachChaz
06-17-2009, 12:15 PM
I'd take that deal in a (New York) minute. I love Josh Cribbs

He has hands of steel and Royal will supposedly be taking on more ST duties. Where does Cribbs fit in?

lex
06-17-2009, 12:16 PM
I'd take that deal in a (New York) minute. I love Josh Cribbs


Is Cribbs a #1 though? Its great that he can return but its arguable that another 5-10 yards of starting field position is worth losing that much offense.

weazel
06-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Bunch of ass kissers leaving a bunch of messages to kiss his ass and inflate his ego...just what he needs. :rolleyes:

I wonder if they are deleting all the disparaging remarks like:

Hey dumbass, keep your hands off your girlfriend and you'd have your huge payday.

Take some responsibility for the situation you are in. You didn't perform at a high enough level in college to go 1st or 2nd round, then you do perform at a high NFL level but can't keep yourself out of your own way long enough for a franchise to even consider throwing big money your direction.

But instead...let's just kiss the guy's ass. :fuming:

well I left 4 messages, none of them made it past the moderators.

1. go **** yourself
2. shouldnt you be out slapping your girlfriend around?
3. now your head is as numb as your hand, your'e done
4. dont let the tv stand hit you in the ass on the way out

dunno why they didnt make it on the blog

weazel
06-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Found the link to the article about Marshall to the browns.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/16/brandon-to-the-browns/

to the browns? maybe were getting Edwards in return, to me they are the same player, neither can hang onto the ball

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 12:29 PM
to the browns? maybe were getting Edwards in return, to me they are the same player, neither can hang onto the ball

One headcase for another plus a day 1 pick sounds fair to me

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 12:29 PM
well i left 4 messages, none of them made it past the moderators.

1. Go **** yourself
2. Shouldnt you be out slapping your girlfriend around?
3. Now your head is as numb as your hand, your'e done
4. Dont let the tv stand hit you in the ass on the way out

dunno why they didnt make it on the blog

lmmfao

lex
06-17-2009, 12:37 PM
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BIGrofl2-1.gif

-----


Bump...for no reason in particular.

Tned
06-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Sorry guys, my bad. That last post of mine was meant for a mod discussion thread.

Dortoh
06-17-2009, 12:55 PM
So no food fight?

Sorry boss just trying to help :)

GEM
06-17-2009, 01:09 PM
So no food fight?

Sorry boss just trying to help :)

Now THAT was some funny ish!! :lol:

Tned
06-17-2009, 01:11 PM
So no food fight?

Sorry boss just trying to help :)

That's why they don't let me mod too often, I don't exactly have "mad skills"...

GEM
06-17-2009, 02:31 PM
Thanks again to everybody who sent nice comments about not only the Pro Bowl but my recent engagement. That means a lot, and continues to make me proud to play for a team that has so many dedicated and passionate fans who care about the players. That’s a cool thing, and we’re luck to have that.

I need a little more time to catch my breath here in Orlando, but I’ll soon be heading back to Colorado, where I look forward to meeting the new coaching staff and getting started on the 2009 season.
_________________________________________

Guess you forgot about writing that just a few short months ago....so much for those dedicated and passionate fans. But hey...the money's what's important...right. Ri-friggen-diculous. After all the times the Denver fans stood behind you while you were putting the team in jeopardy, while all the other teams' fans were saying what a waste of time you were. Ya do know that had you not had your personal problems the Broncos would have paid you very pretty...so screw the "best owner in the NFL". That's a me first mentality...guess that's why you got the nickname 'Baby TO'. Thoroughly disappointed. And if you don't want to be here, se la vie.

__________________________________________________ ____________

My post on his blog.

OB
06-17-2009, 02:33 PM
booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooo bmarsh booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

topscribe
06-17-2009, 02:36 PM
Thanks again to everybody who sent nice comments about not only the Pro Bowl but my recent engagement. That means a lot, and continues to make me proud to play for a team that has so many dedicated and passionate fans who care about the players. That’s a cool thing, and we’re luck to have that.

I need a little more time to catch my breath here in Orlando, but I’ll soon be heading back to Colorado, where I look forward to meeting the new coaching staff and getting started on the 2009 season.
_________________________________________

Guess you forgot about writing that just a few short months ago....so much for those dedicated and passionate fans. But hey...the money's what's important...right. Ri-friggen-diculous. After all the times the Denver fans stood behind you while you were putting the team in jeopardy, while all the other teams' fans were saying what a waste of time you were. Ya do know that had you not had your personal problems the Broncos would have paid you very pretty...so screw the "best owner in the NFL". That's a me first mentality...guess that's why you got the nickname 'Baby TO'. Thoroughly disappointed. And if you don't want to be here, se la vie.

__________________________________________________ ____________

My post on his blog.

Were I not already in love with a beautiful woman, I would be very jealous
of your betrothed. All the best, sweet lady. :)

-----

weazel
06-17-2009, 04:53 PM
Thanks again to everybody who sent nice comments about not only the Pro Bowl but my recent engagement. That means a lot, and continues to make me proud to play for a team that has so many dedicated and passionate fans who care about the players. That’s a cool thing, and we’re luck to have that.

I need a little more time to catch my breath here in Orlando, but I’ll soon be heading back to Colorado, where I look forward to meeting the new coaching staff and getting started on the 2009 season.
_________________________________________

Guess you forgot about writing that just a few short months ago....so much for those dedicated and passionate fans. But hey...the money's what's important...right. Ri-friggen-diculous. After all the times the Denver fans stood behind you while you were putting the team in jeopardy, while all the other teams' fans were saying what a waste of time you were. Ya do know that had you not had your personal problems the Broncos would have paid you very pretty...so screw the "best owner in the NFL". That's a me first mentality...guess that's why you got the nickname 'Baby TO'. Thoroughly disappointed. And if you don't want to be here, se la vie.

__________________________________________________ ____________

My post on his blog.

geez, when I started reading this I though you had got engaged GEM! Thought I blew my chance! ;)

GEM
06-17-2009, 05:02 PM
Were I not already in love with a beautiful woman, I would be very jealous
of your betrothed. All the best, sweet lady. :)

-----


geez, when I started reading this I though you had got engaged GEM! Thought I blew my chance! ;)

I'm not engaged you goofs!! :lol: That's what Marshall blogged.

Me and marriage....yea, not going to happen. EVER.

WARHORSE
06-17-2009, 05:15 PM
I'm not engaged you goofs!! :lol: That's what Marshall blogged.

Me and marriage....yea, not going to happen. EVER.


Famous last words..................


Youre a girl, remember? ;)


Er........sorry........woman. Youre a woman.

G_Money
06-17-2009, 05:18 PM
Famous last words..................


Youre a girl, remember? ;)


Er........sorry........woman. Youre a woman.

You don't know that woman very well. :salute:

~G

WARHORSE
06-17-2009, 05:18 PM
I believe Brandon wants to stay in Denver.

He loves Denver.


This is a ploy for more cash though, and Bowlens hurt his feelings. Let it play out.

If it comes to him wearing another color jersey.........then he SUCKS.


Until then, I hope he matures and I hope we can come to a deal that helps BOTH sides.

WARHORSE
06-17-2009, 05:21 PM
You don't know that woman very well. :salute:

~G


True.


Wonder if she would respond to a Tom Brady, or the likes..........ya think?


If Tom were still single, and he knelt down and proposed to GEM, Id say she'd be hitched and in the sack before he stood up.


Just my guess though.:coffee:


:salute: :salute:

G_Money
06-17-2009, 05:24 PM
The guys who knocked up some other chick and then got engaged to somebody else?

Not a chance.

I'm pretty sure you just called GEM a money-grubber who spreads em and hitches up for cute rich guys.

That's not exactly her priority. Again, as you'd know if you knew her better.

~G

G_Money
06-17-2009, 05:28 PM
Marshall, OTOH, IS a money-grubber who spreads em for the first person to show him a wad of cash.

But we suspected that. Many, MANY pro-players are. I don't hold it against him.

I may think he's being an idiot and that in his situation only a fool tries to get paid top dollar while under his circumstances, but all he needs is one taker and for the Broncos to accept the deal.

There's always a Clippers/Raiders/Yankees/whoever who will throw big money at risks. I may think it's stupid, but if it's money he wants, he may very well get it.

It looks like it just won't be from us.

~G

GEM
06-17-2009, 05:31 PM
True.


Wonder if she would respond to a Tom Brady, or the likes..........ya think?


If Tom were still single, and he knelt down and proposed to GEM, Id say she'd be hitched and in the sack before he stood up.


Just my guess though.:coffee:


:salute: :salute:


Wrong...that guy has the biggest ass on his chin I have ever seen.

GEM
06-17-2009, 05:33 PM
I don't care if the guy has a million dollars or none at all. Marriage isn't something I am interested in. It's a piece of paper and in this society it is treated as such. Why do I need a piece of paper to be happy? At the same time....and I know this to be true...why do I need a man to be happy?

I'm gonna shut up cause I have gone far off the topic of the thread. ;)

Lonestar
06-17-2009, 07:43 PM
:focus:



:laugh::laugh:

red98
06-17-2009, 07:47 PM
I don't care if the guy has a million dollars or none at all. Marriage isn't something I am interested in. It's a piece of paper and in this society it is treated as such. Why do I need a piece of paper to be happy? At the same time....and I know this to be true...why do I need a man to be happy?

I'm gonna shut up cause I have gone far off the topic of the thread. ;)

Great, just when this thread was starting to get interesting...:tsk:

ApaOps5
06-18-2009, 11:13 PM
well I left 4 messages, none of them made it past the moderators.

1. go **** yourself
2. shouldnt you be out slapping your girlfriend around?
3. now your head is as numb as your hand, your'e done
4. dont let the tv stand hit you in the ass on the way out

dunno why they didnt make it on the blog

Ha I left a message that didn't make it either:

Brandon, did you run out of women to beat in Denver or is this really about money.


Alas, didn't make it!

Lonestar
06-18-2009, 11:31 PM
Ha I left a message that didn't make it either:

Brandon, did you run out of women to beat in Denver or is this really about money.


Alas, didn't make it!


now that is funny..

weazel
06-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Ha I left a message that didn't make it either:

Brandon, did you run out of women to beat in Denver or is this really about money.


Alas, didn't make it!

greener pastures, greener pastures...

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Marshalls wagon was attached to Cutler. If Coach McD had handled that better the Marshall issue would have never came about.

That's your perception.

Most likely, incorrect.

Most of us saw this coming back when he was saying he was going to catch 200 balls.

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 10:02 AM
Were I not already in love with a beautiful woman, I would be very jealous
of your betrothed. All the best, sweet lady. :)

-----

Top...your speed reading skills need honing.....:laugh:

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm not engaged you goofs!! :lol: That's what Marshall blogged.

Me and marriage....yea, not going to happen. EVER.

:eek:So some of us still have a chance?

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 10:06 AM
True.



If Tom were still single, and he knelt down and proposed to GEM, Id say she'd be hitched and in the sack before he stood up.




Wow.....

...what a guy could say, just by switching around a few words.... :D

Northman
06-19-2009, 10:07 AM
Thanks again to everybody who sent nice comments about not only the Pro Bowl but my recent engagement. That means a lot, and continues to make me proud to play for a team that has so many dedicated and passionate fans who care about the players. That’s a cool thing, and we’re luck to have that.

I need a little more time to catch my breath here in Orlando, but I’ll soon be heading back to Colorado, where I look forward to meeting the new coaching staff and getting started on the 2009 season.
_________________________________________

Guess you forgot about writing that just a few short months ago....so much for those dedicated and passionate fans. But hey...the money's what's important...right. Ri-friggen-diculous. After all the times the Denver fans stood behind you while you were putting the team in jeopardy, while all the other teams' fans were saying what a waste of time you were. Ya do know that had you not had your personal problems the Broncos would have paid you very pretty...so screw the "best owner in the NFL". That's a me first mentality...guess that's why you got the nickname 'Baby TO'. Thoroughly disappointed. And if you don't want to be here, se la vie.

__________________________________________________ ____________

My post on his blog.


Congrats on your engagement Gem. Brandon's a lucky guy. Do you keep an ice pack near the bed? :laugh:

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 10:07 AM
The guys who knocked up some other chick and then got engaged to somebody else?

Not a chance.

I'm pretty sure you just called GEM a money-grubber who spreads em and hitches up for cute rich guys.

That's not exactly her priority. Again, as you'd know if you knew her better.

~G

Quitcher kissing GEM's ass!


That's my dream! (oops....I meant job) :shocked:

rcsodak
06-19-2009, 10:10 AM
and I know this to be true...why do I need a man to be happy?

;)

Oooofta.....


...thoughts are now racing through my brain!

:couch:

WARHORSE
06-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Wrong...that guy has the biggest ass on his chin I have ever seen.

Classic. :laugh:

I shoulda known.



Ok, lessee..........

Tank Abbott?

Wesley Snipes?

David Hassellhoff?

Axl Rose?


;)

GEM
06-19-2009, 10:41 AM
Classic. :laugh:

I shoulda known.



Ok, lessee..........

Tank Abbott?

Wesley Snipes?

David Hassellhoff?

Axl Rose?


;)


No
No
No
No
.

:D

WARHORSE
06-19-2009, 10:42 AM
I don't care if the guy has a million dollars or none at all. Marriage isn't something I am interested in. It's a piece of paper and in this society it is treated as such. Why do I need a piece of paper to be happy? At the same time....and I know this to be true...why do I need a man to be happy?

I'm gonna shut up cause I have gone far off the topic of the thread. ;)


What the heck, it the offseason.;)


Ok. So yer not the material girl. I gotta admire that.


Marriage is the best though, I gotta tell ya.

THE BEST.:salute:

WARHORSE
06-19-2009, 10:42 AM
no
no
no
no
.

:d



gumby? ;)

GEM
06-19-2009, 10:58 AM
What the heck, it the offseason.;)


Ok. So yer not the material girl. I gotta admire that.


Marriage is the best though, I gotta tell ya.

THE BEST.:salute:

I'm sure it can be....if you find that person. It's getting past having that and having THAT person totally destroy trust and the things marriage is based on. If THAT person can do it to you, anyone can. :shrugs:

GEM
06-19-2009, 10:58 AM
gumby? ;)

Gumby is pretty cute. :lol:

WARHORSE
06-19-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm sure it can be....if you find that person. It's getting past having that and having THAT person totally destroy trust and the things marriage is based on. If THAT person can do it to you, anyone can. :shrugs:


Im sure.

I think it has to do more with people dont know HOW to have a great marriage.

There arent a lot to be seen nowadays, and if the kids growing up dont see em to learn from em...........theyre probably going to have a tough go of it.

WARHORSE
06-19-2009, 02:46 PM
Gumby is pretty cute. :lol:


Thats great news!

Us guys with lopsided heads have a chance in the world! Woot!

:beer:


BTW, you know his sidekick is named pokey dont ya??;)

GEM
06-19-2009, 02:53 PM
Im sure.

I think it has to do more with people dont know HOW to have a great marriage.

There arent a lot to be seen nowadays, and if the kids growing up dont see em to learn from em...........theyre probably going to have a tough go of it.

Yep, I worry about that all the time with my daughters. :yardog:

Timmy!
06-19-2009, 03:21 PM
Timmy is pretty cute.

Awwww. :D


(the thread is already hijacked anyway) :elefant:

Denver Native (Carol)
06-19-2009, 05:27 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12648294


The hundreds of youth football campers couldn't get enough of Brandon Marshall this morning as the Broncos wide receiver wrapped up the second and final day of his Camp 15, a free youth camp at Overland High in Aurora.

Marshall smiled and posed for picture after picture, but continued to avoid any serious talk about his future in Denver.

"I know there's a lot going on, but this is a beautiful time right now," Marshall said.

Marshall, dissatisfied with both his contract and previous medical treatment, requested the Broncos trade him a week ago and opted to skip the team's mandatory minicamp last weekend.

Marshall was scheduled to fly back to Orlando, Fla. later today. What remains unclear is if he'll be back when the rest of his teammates report for training camp in the final days of July. Marshall wouldn't say one way or the other.

"Life, man. So much gets thrown at you at once sometimes, you've got to be able to embrace it and keep your head above water," Marshall said.

WARHORSE
06-20-2009, 04:11 AM
Yep, I worry about that all the time with my daughters. :yardog:



Love and encouragement work wonders. :cool:

LoyalSoldier
06-20-2009, 06:10 AM
I thought we were screwed before, but I am really starting to think we are royally screwed now. The worst part about it is if we suck we aren't going to get any benefit from it. OUR FIRST ROUNDER IS GONE!

Tempus Fugit
06-20-2009, 11:48 AM
I thought we were screwed before, but I am really starting to think we are royally screwed now. The worst part about it is if we suck we aren't going to get any benefit from it. OUR FIRST ROUNDER IS GONE!

Denver still has a first round pick next year, so you can come in off of the ledge. You can just hope that Chicago sucks, and let that make you feel better.

LoyalSoldier
06-20-2009, 05:12 PM
Denver still has a first round pick next year, so you can come in off of the ledge. You can just hope that Chicago sucks, and let that make you feel better.

Which again it isn't based off of how bad our team does. Like I said we gain no benefit from sucking this year. Instead we are banking that a team we just gave our probowl QB to will suck. I don't like those odds.

Northman
06-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Im not worried about it either way. I learned a long time ago you win some and you lose some. I really cant believe people are jumping off cliffs like they are about all this. Im actually more intrigued and excited about Bronco football than i have ever been the last 8 years. Lets face it, we have zero idea about how this team will be because of all the new pieces that are in place. Ladies and gentlemen, this is OUR team. Shit or get off the pot already and quit worrying about players who just dont want to be here anymore. There are tons of players on this team working out every day who are excited to be here. Those are the guys we should be talking about.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-20-2009, 10:35 PM
To all of you "i know everything about the Broncos and how they operate in the offseason" fans....this is 100% on Marshall. We have seen this act time and time again throughout the history of the NFL. Prima Donna type WR's, QB's, RB's etc. getting to the end of their contract and holding out. Don't try to point the blame on McD on this one. We saw this coming when Shanny was still here.

The thing with Marshall is there is speculation that the hip is not ready...and might not be ready come training camp. If Marshall knows that, he might as well roll the dice. If the Broncos know that....trade him for value and let the other team deal with his injury and off the field problems.

I want him here, but ...... I think the Broncos are 100% in the right here. If you don't then you haven't been following the history of the offseason in the NFL very much

It's not a hold out, it's a trade request. Normally the holdout comes first with the trade request caming after the holdout doesn't work. Going right to the trade request shows me that this isn't about money. Brandon just doesn't want to be here. I don't know that I blame him after the poor handling of the Cutler trade.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-20-2009, 10:36 PM
Im not worried about it either way. I learned a long time ago you win some and you lose some. I really cant believe people are jumping off cliffs like they are about all this. Im actually more intrigued and excited about Bronco football than i have ever been the last 8 years. Lets face it, we have zero idea about how this team will be because of all the new pieces that are in place. Ladies and gentlemen, this is OUR team. Shit or get off the pot already and quit worrying about players who just dont want to be here anymore. There are tons of players on this team working out every day who are excited to be here. Those are the guys we should be talking about.

I can tell you what our team will be. Sub .500 for the first time in awhile. there's no way we trade away our top two offensive players on the #2 offense in the league and get better. No Way. :tsk:

BroncoWave
06-20-2009, 11:40 PM
I can tell you what our team will be. Sub .500 for the first time in awhile. there's no way we trade away our top two offensive players on the #2 offense in the league and get better. No Way. :tsk:

You're right. We should just cancel the season. No need to go out and play the games since we're just going to lose most of them.

frauschieze
06-21-2009, 12:12 AM
I can tell you what our team will be. Sub .500 for the first time in awhile.

First time in the last two years. Season before last we were 7-9. :hi:

Shazam!
06-21-2009, 01:15 AM
Im not worried about it either way. I learned a long time ago you win some and you lose some. I really cant believe people are jumping off cliffs like they are about all this. Im actually more intrigued and excited about Bronco football than i have ever been the last 8 years. Lets face it, we have zero idea about how this team will be because of all the new pieces that are in place. Ladies and gentlemen, this is OUR team. Shit or get off the pot already and quit worrying about players who just dont want to be here anymore. There are tons of players on this team working out every day who are excited to be here. Those are the guys we should be talking about.

I love this post it's great.

First of all-

Myself and other Broncos fans here lived in the 80's and 90's with Denver having the reputation that they'd forever be known as a perennial loser, Elway a second-rate QB choke artist, and a team that couldn't get it done with championship futility and a state in embarassment. If it wasn't for the Bills, Denver was known as biggest Super Bowl losers in recent memory back then. I know I saw my team as the kings of the NFL, an unstoppable force, and the same type of team that we saw SF, NYG, and Dallas be for many of those years- teams that couldn't be stopped. The Broncos had a storybook in 1997 and to cap it off won it again to prove it wasn't a freak. It took this team 40-something years to win a championship. Seriously, we may never see Denver that good again in our lifetimes. I'll take it.

I am excited to see a new direction, a new philosophy and new faces. Sure, we had QBs over the years and Cutler was the most exciting (and controversial) of all of them. There have been a lot of ups and downs this decade, but too many downs. Change was needed and I welcome it. I won't criticize it until I see it fail.

You root for the uniform first, players and coaches second.

Speaking of the uniforms, I wish Denver would bring back the old unis and modernize them slightly.

Go :defense:

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 10:24 AM
You're right. We should just cancel the season. No need to go out and play the games since we're just going to lose most of them.

It's not about cancelling the season. It's about coming to grips with the reality of our situation. Nobody really knows what will happen, but when you mess with a good thing this much it usually doesn't turn out well. Jay and Brandon were our two real offensive weapons last year. They made everyone else better. To trade them away so cavalierly, no matter the reasons behind it, is to invite a huge step back.

We've gone from a coach in Shanahan who believed he can plug anyone in at RB and make him effective to a coach in McD who believes he can do the same at the QB position. They are fiends of their respective system. Many times, coaches who are unwilling and/or unable to change with the times are the ones shown the door. The firing of Shanny proved just that.

The offense was about as good as it could have been - then add Moreno on top of it and a couple of free agents that knew the system in Gaffney and Jordan to help the others along and we could've been something special. Now, we're starting all over again at the ground floor. Sometimes change is good - I just can't see it in this case.

If there was any hope for Orton to really be successful as the starter here, he could've really used an elite talent like Marshall to rely on. Without Marshall, we have an undersized, not very physical WR corps. We're rapidly becoming the Washington Redskins of the AFC West more than the NE Patriots. With Brandon, WR is a strength. Without him, it's back to being a ?.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 10:26 AM
I love this post it's great.

First of all-

Myself and other Broncos fans here lived in the 80's and 90's with Denver having the reputation that they'd forever be known as a perennial loser, Elway a second-rate QB choke artist, and a team that couldn't get it done with championship futility and a state in embarassment. If it wasn't for the Bills, Denver was known as biggest Super Bowl losers in recent memory back then. I know I saw my team as the kings of the NFL, an unstoppable force, and the same type of team that we saw SF, NYG, and Dallas be for many of those years- teams that couldn't be stopped. The Broncos had a storybook in 1997 and to cap it off won it again to prove it wasn't a freak. It took this team 40-something years to win a championship. Seriously, we may never see Denver that good again in our lifetimes. I'll take it.

I am excited to see a new direction, a new philosophy and new faces. Sure, we had QBs over the years and Cutler was the most exciting (and controversial) of all of them. There have been a lot of ups and downs this decade, but too many downs. Change was needed and I welcome it. I won't criticize it until I see it fail.

You root for the uniform first, players and coaches second.

Speaking of the uniforms, I wish Denver would bring back the old unis and modernize them slightly.

Go :defense:

Oh, I was there with you my friend. The big difference was that when we had Elway, there was hope. What we're doing right now is like trading away Elway and Rod Smith at the peak of their careers in the same offseason.

Northman
06-21-2009, 10:34 AM
I can tell you what our team will be. Sub .500 for the first time in awhile. there's no way we trade away our top two offensive players on the #2 offense in the league and get better. No Way. :tsk:


Than by all means please exit stage left.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 10:49 AM
Than by all means please exit stage left.

It's not about exiting stage left. I've been a Broncos fan since 1984. I have ZERO connection to the state of Colorado. I've never even set foot in the state. This isn't some fairweather "hometown" fan loyalty like most of you have. I'm not a fan because dad was and grandpa before him and so on. I'm a fan because I love the Broncos. If I wanted to leave for greener pastures it would've happened long ago. What I'm seeing as a long time Broncos fan, is some serious mis-management and poor personnel decisions. We alienated a franchise QB and now we're apparently going to do the same with a franchise WR. Never in my 25 years of being Broncos faithful have I seen this kind of "dark cloud" settle over the team. We used to be a franchise that looked out for its players and where players wanted to stay for their career. Now it seems that that may not be the case. My fear is that this problem will creep into other players. What happens when Champ and DJ also start requesting trades? Just let them go, too?

This isn't about jumping ship. I'm just expressing my concern with MY team and the management of it. I come to these boards to do just that. The FO needs to get this under control. If they trade away Marshall, too - we'll be on the path to becoming the next Detroit Lions - the team that no player really wants to play for.

Tned
06-21-2009, 11:30 AM
I love this post it's great.

First of all-

Myself and other Broncos fans here lived in the 80's and 90's with Denver having the reputation that they'd forever be known as a perennial loser, Elway a second-rate QB choke artist, and a team that couldn't get it done with championship futility and a state in embarassment. If it wasn't for the Bills, Denver was known as biggest Super Bowl losers in recent memory back then. I know I saw my team as the kings of the NFL, an unstoppable force, and the same type of team that we saw SF, NYG, and Dallas be for many of those years- teams that couldn't be stopped. The Broncos had a storybook in 1997 and to cap it off won it again to prove it wasn't a freak. It took this team 40-something years to win a championship. Seriously, we may never see Denver that good again in our lifetimes. I'll take it.

I am excited to see a new direction, a new philosophy and new faces. Sure, we had QBs over the years and Cutler was the most exciting (and controversial) of all of them. There have been a lot of ups and downs this decade, but too many downs. Change was needed and I welcome it. I won't criticize it until I see it fail.

You root for the uniform first, players and coaches second.

Speaking of the uniforms, I wish Denver would bring back the old unis and modernize them slightly.

Go :defense:

In your history of the Broncos, don't forget how the fans lost faith as well, as in calling into KOA before the '89 playoffs and saying they hoped the Broncos lost in the first round, because the city couldn't handle another SB embarrassment -- the Denver newspapers printing much the same.

While I don't like the revisionist 'fan'atical history, where Marshall becomes a worthless bum, an average receiver, that only 'looked' good, because Cutler didn't know how to spread the ball around --- where Orton is as good, or better, than Cutler and we are better off with Orton under center, I do think on the flip side that many here aren't giving McDaniels a chance to prove himelsf on the field (through his team of course).

We will never know if Shanahan was about to get the team on track, or if we would have hovered around .500 for another three years. In the end, it doesn't matter, because the team is now going down a drastically different path. As a fan, I HOPE McDaniels is so successful, that it is recorded in NFL history as one of the best moves that any NFL owner ever made.

dogfish
06-21-2009, 11:33 AM
Than by all means please exit stage left.

hey now! HP56 is a good guy, don't be tryin' to run him off!


there's no law in the fan handbook that says you have to like every decision the franchise makes. . . .

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 11:36 AM
hey now! HP56 is a good guy, don't be tryin' to run him off!


there's no law in the fan handbook that says you have to like every decision the franchise makes. . . .

Thanks dog. ;) I'm usually not this negative, but I'm really finding it hard to see a lot of upside stemming from this off season. Hopefully, I'm terribly mistaken about everything.

Tned
06-21-2009, 11:44 AM
hey now! HP56 is a good guy, don't be tryin' to run him off!


there's no law in the fan handbook that says you have to like every decision the franchise makes. . . .

Don't be so fast.

I just got emailed a draft copy of the Broncos 2009-2010 Fan Etiquette Rules and Guidelines that McDaniels had the front office put together and reportedly will be sent to all season ticket holders.

It clearly states that no front office or head coaching decisions may be questioned. It is in section IV of the handbook.

Northman
06-21-2009, 11:51 AM
It's not about exiting stage left. I've been a Broncos fan since 1984. I have ZERO connection to the state of Colorado. I've never even set foot in the state. This isn't some fairweather "hometown" fan loyalty like most of you have. I'm not a fan because dad was and grandpa before him and so on. I'm a fan because I love the Broncos. If I wanted to leave for greener pastures it would've happened long ago. What I'm seeing as a long time Broncos fan, is some serious mis-management and poor personnel decisions. We alienated a franchise QB and now we're apparently going to do the same with a franchise WR. Never in my 25 years of being Broncos faithful have I seen this kind of "dark cloud" settle over the team. We used to be a franchise that looked out for its players and where players wanted to stay for their career. Now it seems that that may not be the case. My fear is that this problem will creep into other players. What happens when Champ and DJ also start requesting trades? Just let them go, too?

This isn't about jumping ship. I'm just expressing my concern with MY team and the management of it. I come to these boards to do just that. The FO needs to get this under control. If they trade away Marshall, too - we'll be on the path to becoming the next Detroit Lions - the team that no player really wants to play for.


They didnt alienate anyone. They explored an option at the Qb position that they thought might help the team. The QB in place couldnt handle that and forced his way out. As for Marshall? No team is going to fork out that kind of cash to a player who has the kind of history he does (see Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones) along with injury concerns. Im sorry, but your misguided on the part of who was to blame concerning these players wanting to leave. And yes, if Champ wants to leave than let him. Trying to keep players here who dont want to be is just plain moronic. Especially in this day and age when certain players are essentially mercenaries for hire. Is Jay Cutler a good Qb? Sure, he has a lot of upside but he has the maturity of a 3 year old (see Jeff George). Is there some skepticism about this team right now? Sure, because so many people get caught up in the hype in certain players instead of the team concept. Again, the only reason Jay and "maybe" Brandon arent here is because they just flat out dont want to be here. If Jay really wanted to be a Denver Bronco he would be one. So please, spare me the ******* whining already. Oh, and just in case you didnt research the Broncos have had tough times before and still managed to find their way out of it.

Northman
06-21-2009, 11:53 AM
hey now! HP56 is a good guy, don't be tryin' to run him off!


there's no law in the fan handbook that says you have to like every decision the franchise makes. . . .


Who's running him off? Im just correcting him.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 12:22 PM
They didnt alienate anyone. They explored an option at the Qb position that they thought might help the team. The QB in place couldnt handle that and forced his way out. As for Marshall? No team is going to fork out that kind of cash to a player who has the kind of history he does (see Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones) along with injury concerns. Im sorry, but your misguided on the part of who was to blame concerning these players wanting to leave. And yes, if Champ wants to leave than let him. Trying to keep players here who dont want to be is just plain moronic. Especially in this day and age when certain players are essentially mercenaries for hire. Is Jay Cutler a good Qb? Sure, he has a lot of upside but he has the maturity of a 3 year old (see Jeff George). Is there some skepticism about this team right now? Sure, because so many people get caught up in the hype in certain players instead of the team concept. Again, the only reason Jay and "maybe" Brandon arent here is because they just flat out dont want to be here. If Jay really wanted to be a Denver Bronco he would be one. So please, spare me the ******* whining already. Oh, and just in case you didnt research the Broncos have had tough times before and still managed to find their way out of it.

So when the Broncos had tough times before, did they trade away Elway and Rod Smith and make the tough times worse? This sin't just about the tough times of winning and losing games, it's about losing your team before they've even played a game.

So, you're going to compare Cutler - whom everyone loved until his falling out with McD - the guy who played through diabetes instead of using it as an excuse, the guy who pulled our team's butt (specifically the defense) out of the fire on several occasions last year by being as clutch as you could ask for, and the guy who did everything possible to make himself and others better by working out with his teammates (Marshall and Scheffler) in the offseason when he didn't have to - to Jeff George?

This wasn't about money. This was about respect. Jay was completely disrespected by McDaniels and the FO from day one of the McD tenure. He was treated as instantly "expendable". How would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady have acted if they were in the same situation? This isn't a Jason Campbell scenario, where the team really needed to try to get better at QB so Cambell said the right things to the media in an attempt to keep his job when the Redskins looked to replace him. This was McD wanting to bring in his own homeboy even though he wasn't as established or as talented as Cutler.

"And yes, if Champ wants to leave than let him." Really? How about Clady? Does the significance of being "under contract" have no meaning to you? So, we should just cut or trade everyone who doesn't either like McD or want to be here? I'd be willing to bet you'd have about 40 guys left on the roster, if that.

News flash! This team will not win games with a bunch of no talent backups who "want to be here" because the can't find work elsewhere. Every team has to have the essential pieces in place and playmakers at certain positions to be successful. Do you think guys like Buckhalter, Jordan, Gaffney, and Davis are the future? They're has beens or never weres. You can't count on the rookies either, because nobody knows how they'll turn out. We've taken a young, promising core of players and alienated them before they've even played a game. It isn't about just losing Cutler and/or Marshall, it's about losing the team. Do you honestly think that watching the way the FO deals with it's top players doesn't directly affect every player? Do you think those players are going to respond positively or negatively to the FO casting aside guys like Cutler and Marshall so easily?

Not everyone is motivated by the whole "look what happens when you cross usso you'd better straighten up" mentality. These aren't children - they're grown men who's first loyalty isn't to the team or the fans it's to themselves and their families and their well being. Part of that well being is how you are treated at work.

My point is, the FO is driving these players away. I can see it continuing unless they realize that sometimes, you actually have to listen to your employess and care for their needs. If you think that the decisions the FO makes right now concerning Marshall will not have a future impact on guys like Royal, Scheffler, Clady, etc, you're mistaken. It's what they do right now that will have a ripple effect on the team for the next 5-10 years.

WARHORSE
06-21-2009, 12:23 PM
They didnt alienate anyone. They explored an option at the Qb position that they thought might help the team. The QB in place couldnt handle that and forced his way out. As for Marshall? No team is going to fork out that kind of cash to a player who has the kind of history he does (see Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones) along with injury concerns. Im sorry, but your misguided on the part of who was to blame concerning these players wanting to leave. And yes, if Champ wants to leave than let him. Trying to keep players here who dont want to be is just plain moronic. Especially in this day and age when certain players are essentially mercenaries for hire. Is Jay Cutler a good Qb? Sure, he has a lot of upside but he has the maturity of a 3 year old (see Jeff George). Is there some skepticism about this team right now? Sure, because so many people get caught up in the hype in certain players instead of the team concept. Again, the only reason Jay and "maybe" Brandon arent here is because they just flat out dont want to be here. If Jay really wanted to be a Denver Bronco he would be one. So please, spare me the ******* whining already. Oh, and just in case you didnt research the Broncos have had tough times before and still managed to find their way out of it.


Theres a problem with that and its called human nature.

BEWARE OF GREEKS BEARING GIFTS as the old saying goes.

If someone comes up to me and jerks my love chain telling me how Im the reason he came here, and how Im gonna love his system, and how we're gonna win together, and yada, yada, yada......................and then a couple of weeks later look into trading me...............call me thinned skinned if you want, but at 25 yrs old, I would immediately mistrust the guy, and think he was a phony. At 25 yrs old, thinking youre a phony gives me the right to blow you off, especially for pullin my chain FIRST.


An older vet would probably have handled it differently, and an older rookie HC probably would have handled it differently too.

I even think if Bowlen could go back, he would handle it differently as well.


Looking back, best of the situation is to learn from it and move on..............


.....move on................................................ ....



....move on................................................ .....



....move on................................................ ......



Move on to bigger and better things.


The Broncos are winners.


We need to ride the season together and put this in the rearview mirror.:coffee:






:beer:

Northman
06-21-2009, 12:38 PM
Theres a problem with that and its called human nature.

BEWARE OF GREEKS BEARING GIFTS as the old saying goes.

If someone comes up to me and jerks my love chain telling me how Im the reason he came here, and how Im gonna love his system, and how we're gonna win together, and yada, yada, yada......................and then a couple of weeks later look into trading me...............call me thinned skinned if you want, but at 25 yrs old, I would immediately mistrust the guy, and think he was a phony. At 25 yrs old, thinking youre a phony gives me the right to blow you off, especially for pullin my chain FIRST.





I could care less who started the issue. The end result was the guy who chose to leave. And if your going to talk about a player mistrusting his Coach than that same player must look in the mirror for being a outright liar himself. He made statements about being a team guy and playing for his teammates and yet let them down in the process. Instead, he let one guy get under his skin instead of relying on his teammates whom he "supposedly" played for anyway. But yea, part of moving on is giving the Coach and the rest of the players who want to be here a chance to prove their worth. Which if you look at my post a page or so back you will see thats exactly what i was getting at. People need to move on from the suicide watch and get behind the team for the guys who do want to be here. Even if we do have a couple of losing seasons it isnt like its never happened before. Everything goes in cycles and maybe its our time. But im certainly willing to give this guy a chance to see what he can do and he deserves that chance before people start burning him at the stake.

Shazam!
06-21-2009, 01:28 PM
Cutler is NOT John Elway, so the comparison is moot.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Cutler is NOT John Elway, so the comparison is moot.

True, but there's no telling if he could've been one day. Tom Brady isn't Joe Montana either, but it doesn't stop the comparisons from flying. Cutler is the best (by far) QB we've had in the post Elway era. He was the BEST player on the team last year (with Clady coming in close second). He was the catalyst that our offense relied on to function. He played the part.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 01:52 PM
I could care less who started the issue. The end result was the guy who chose to leave. And if your going to talk about a player mistrusting his Coach than that same player must look in the mirror for being a outright liar himself. He made statements about being a team guy and playing for his teammates and yet let them down in the process. Instead, he let one guy get under his skin instead of relying on his teammates whom he "supposedly" played for anyway. But yea, part of moving on is giving the Coach and the rest of the players who want to be here a chance to prove their worth. Which if you look at my post a page or so back you will see thats exactly what i was getting at. People need to move on from the suicide watch and get behind the team for the guys who do want to be here. Even if we do have a couple of losing seasons it isnt like its never happened before. Everything goes in cycles and maybe its our time. But im certainly willing to give this guy a chance to see what he can do and he deserves that chance before people start burning him at the stake.


You may be right, but the idea of getting worse before it gets better is never a prospect that makes fans happy. Being okay with mediocrity is something for Chief and Raider fans - not Broncos fans! The league is designed to be competitive through a salary cap, profit sharing, and CBA. What the FO does with it is not in the control of the fans.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is it's not okay with me if the Broncos consciously decide to get worse instead of getting better. These aren't the days of the ignorant fan anymore. Fans are intelligent and passionate and spend billions of their hard earned money on professional sports. if the broncos have a few down seasons, no, I'm not going to jump ship or give up on them. I'm not going to jump off a cliff and commit fan suicide, but when I can see poor decisions (not just in my opinion, but deemed so by most football knowledgable folks) by those that I hope are the people who will make good decisions for my team, it does upset me.

I'm Sure McD, Xanders, and Bowlen have a "master plan" on what they want for the team. I just hope they don't take enough rope to hang themselves because the people who really suffer will be the players and the fans. NFL stands for "Not For Long" when you start making mistakes. I just don't want the Brocos organization to get stuck rebuilding for the next 10 years after McD's pet projects and vision for the future don't pan out and we struggle in mediocrity while flopping from coach to coach before a good one comes along again. :2thumbsdown:

Tned
06-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I just don't want the Brocos organization to get stuck rebuilding for the next 10 years after McD's pet projects and vision for the future don't pan out and we struggle in mediocrity while flopping from coach to coach before a good one comes along again. :2thumbsdown:

That's what happens to most NFL franchises. As Broncos fans, we have been very fortunatey for the last 20 years or so.

Northman
06-21-2009, 02:11 PM
So when the Broncos had tough times before, did they trade away Elway and Rod Smith and make the tough times worse? This sin't just about the tough times of winning and losing games, it's about losing your team before they've even played a game.

When Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox Elway didnt force a trade or cry about it to the media. Rod Smith was the consummate team player who didnt care about show boating or pulling gimmicks out of his pants in big games that could draw a flag. Sure, he had an "incident" that put a black mark on his record but he learned from that unlike our 13 time world champion Brandon Marshall who still seems to not get it. If you really believe that Marshall and Cutler were the only reasons we won than blame them, not the team. They wanted out and they are getting their wish. The choice is on them. No team is going to pay a troubled wide receiver an insane amount of cash without protecting themselves. No team is going allow one player to disrupt and entire season because he is miffed about a trade proposal.


So, you're going to compare Cutler - whom everyone loved until his falling out with McD - the guy who played through diabetes instead of using it as an excuse, the guy who pulled our team's butt (specifically the defense) out of the fire on several occasions last year by being as clutch as you could ask for, and the guy who did everything possible to make himself and others better by working out with his teammates (Marshall and Scheffler) in the offseason when he didn't have to - to Jeff George?

Based off his immaturity at handling issues regarding guys like McD and Phillip Rivers? Absolutely.


This wasn't about money. This was about respect. Jay was completely disrespected by McDaniels and the FO from day one of the McD tenure. He was treated as instantly "expendable". How would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady have acted if they were in the same situation? This isn't a Jason Campbell scenario, where the team really needed to try to get better at QB so Cambell said the right things to the media in an attempt to keep his job when the Redskins looked to replace him. This was McD wanting to bring in his own homeboy even though he wasn't as established or as talented as Cutler.

Based on what? A lot of people didnt think Steve Young was talented either when he was sitting behind guys like Montana until he actually got to play. Everyone thought New England was done when Cassell took and yet the guy went a 11-5 on his first outing. Now, he's in K.C with a chance to prove he isnt a fluke. Do i think Manning or Brady would have acted the same with trade rumors? Absolutely not, because they have strong character. And you want to talk respect? Lets not forget who threw stones first Mmmkay? The minute Shanahan was fired Jay was already complaining and criticizing the brass even before McDaniels took the reigns. If im a Coach coming in and i see my starting Qb crying and whining to the media before i even get a chance to prove myself i might start looking elsewhere for a QB also.


"And yes, if Champ wants to leave than let him." Really? How about Clady? Does the significance of being "under contract" have no meaning to you? So, we should just cut or trade everyone who doesn't either like McD or want to be here? I'd be willing to bet you'd have about 40 guys left on the roster, if that.

If those guys really wanted out i would let them go. However, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand a player's persona. Champ and Clady dont act like little kids both on and off the field. So i dont see either of them forcing their way out of town.


It isn't about just losing Cutler and/or Marshall, it's about losing the team. Do you honestly think that watching the way the FO deals with it's top players doesn't directly affect every player? Do you think those players are going to respond positively or negatively to the FO casting aside guys like Cutler and Marshall so easily?

Show me some quotes where players are packing it in? Please, ive got some spare time to wait today. All ive seen thus far is players saying that they believe in the Coach and in the system. Whether or not it comes to fruitition is beyond the point. The point is that they believe and thats all that matters. You can claim all night and day long to throw your "hypothetical" theories on here but at the end of the day the players are telling you your wrong.


Not everyone is motivated by the whole "look what happens when you cross usso you'd better straighten up" mentality. These aren't children - they're grown men who's first loyalty isn't to the team or the fans it's to themselves and their families and their well being. Part of that well being is how you are treated at work.

Ive worked many jobs in my lifetime and its NEVER fair there. Even at the jobs that i really like it was never fair. Its a business and especially when you get a new boss there are going to be some changes and a different way of thinking. If your an employee and you dont understand that concept than your in for a rude awakening. Ive watched my mother in law who was one of the most well respected people at my last job get let go because she "costs" too much. Now, Jay didnt get cut because of costs. And he was one of the better players on the team. But he didnt show or prove to the new FO that he had what it took "mentally" to be a leader here and thus traded away his value. I wouldnt be surprised if McD saw all the things after Shanahan was fired and all the issues with Rivers and say to himself "You know, i want to see how much resolve this kid has. I wonder how he would respond to a trade rumor?" Sure, i have nothing to back that up but hell i might of done the same thing just to see how he handled it. Jay Cutler is a gifted athlete but he has some serious maturity issues (more than the normal player) and this is why i compare him to George in terms of attitude.


My point is, the FO is driving these players away. I can see it continuing unless they realize that sometimes, you actually have to listen to your employess and care for their needs. If you think that the decisions the FO makes right now concerning Marshall will not have a future impact on guys like Royal, Scheffler, Clady, etc, you're mistaken. It's what they do right now that will have a ripple effect on the team for the next 5-10 years.

As ive stated, this is a new regime. I think what we are seeing is spoiled kids under Shanahan who when told there are going to be some changes some dont react well to it. But hey, thats life. You can either fold up your tent and go home or fight through it and prove your worth to the new guys in charge. I would of had far more respect for Cutler if he would of just shown up and used his playing to prove how wrong McD was in even considering a trade. Instead, Jay failed that test. And you know what dude? We as fans are being tested now. Either we can rise up and give this new regime a chance or we can fold up our tents and go home crying. If you've been a fan of this team as long as you say than you should know well by now that there are ups and downs along the way.

In 94' i was starting to wonder if John was ever going to get his ring. Well, Shanahan comes in and all of sudden the rest is history. And although you might say that Jay was the best thing we've had since then there is one thing that John had that Jay doesnt right now. Strong Character. Even though John got down when times were tough he never gave up or forced his way out of Denver. And right now Jay is missing that aspect of his game and in my eyes it cost him a fan of his.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 02:13 PM
That's what happens to most NFL franchises. As Broncos fans, we have been very fortunatey for the last 20 years or so.

It's one thing to be up and down. It's completely another to be the perpetual doormats of the league. How long has it been since Lions fans or Rams fans really had something to cheer about? To start the decade the Rams were on top of the world, now there's really no end in sight for them to their losing ways.

The mark of a good franchise is the ability to overcome adversity, to take the good with the bad and not panic and change everything up at the first sign of trouble. I just hope we're as good a franchise as we've been for the past 20+ years.

Tned
06-21-2009, 02:17 PM
It's one thing to be up and down. It's completely another to be the perpetual doormats of the league. How long has it been since Lions fans or Rams fans really had something to cheer about? To start the decade the Rams were on top of the world, now there's really no end in sight for them to their losing ways.

The mark of a good franchise is the ability to overcome adversity, to take the good with the bad and not panic and change everything up at the first sign of trouble. I just hope we're as good a franchise as we've been for the past 20+ years.

And how many franchises can past the litmus test that you laid out? Not many.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-21-2009, 03:17 PM
When Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox Elway didnt force a trade or cry about it to the media. Rod Smith was the consummate team player who didnt care about show boating or pulling gimmicks out of his pants in big games that could draw a flag. Sure, he had an "incident" that put a black mark on his record but he learned from that unlike our 13 time world champion Brandon Marshall who still seems to not get it. If you really believe that Marshall and Cutler were the only reasons we won than blame them, not the team. They wanted out and they are getting their wish. The choice is on them. No team is going to pay a troubled wide receiver an insane amount of cash without protecting themselves. No team is going allow one player to disrupt and entire season because he is miffed about a trade proposal.

It really isn't about money with Marshall. If it was he'd be holding out not asking to be traded right away. He knows he can get paid. There are teams out there right now, even with his off field problems, that are willing to pay him more than we are. He was extremely dissappointed with the way the team handled the Cutler trade. He made it known in an interview the week after it happened. I've been expecting this. Scheffler was no different except that he started showing up (probably because he needs the money) but was also talking about holding out and there were trade rumors swirling about him, too.

Based off his immaturity at handling issues regarding guys like McD and Phillip Rivers? Absolutely.

How about McDaniel's immaturity? Jay came to the meeting trying to bury the hatchet and move on and McD belittled him and criticized his play. Not exactly the way you handle things as an executive (as McD is now, like it or not) when you are dealing with your best employee - a coveted one by other companies at that.

Based on what? A lot of people didnt think Steve Young was talented either when he was sitting behind guys like Montana until he actually got to play. Everyone thought New England was done when Cassell took and yet the guy went a 11-5 on his first outing. Now, he's in K.C with a chance to prove he isnt a fluke. Do i think Manning or Brady would have acted the same with trade rumors? Absolutely not, because they have strong character. And you want to talk respect? Lets not forget who threw stones first Mmmkay? The minute Shanahan was fired Jay was already complaining and criticizing the brass even before McDaniels took the reigns. If im a Coach coming in and i see my starting Qb crying and whining to the media before i even get a chance to prove myself i might start looking elsewhere for a QB also.

Really? Manning has already criticized the hell out of his FO for allowing Moore and Mudd to retire. Classy! I can guarantee you that "Peyton the magnificent" and "Tom Terrific" would be raising hell, too if they were the subject of trade talks and caught wind of it through the media, not from the FO itself. You can't lump Young into this because he was unproven at the time. Scratch that, all he had proven was that he wasn't very good. He was brought in to back up Montana, not replace him. Montana was nearing the end of his career not in the prime of it. Had Young been traded for Montana, there would've been a hailstorm of biblical proportions in SF.

If those guys really wanted out i would let them go. However, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand a player's persona. Champ and Clady dont act like little kids both on and off the field. So i dont see either of them forcing their way out of town.

And we know this how? How many times have we seen players that everyone thought was "team first" and a model citizen decide to ask for a trade? It happens all the time. It doesn't necessarily make them a bad person, either. Some guys just want to win. Champ is one of them. If we deplete our roster too badly, Champ may decide that he wants tyo go somewhere that has a chance to win a Championship. Clady has been here 1 year with 1 coach. How do we know he's some pariah of team spirit? Maybe he liked protecting Cutler. Maybe when his #'s drop this year because Orton holds the ball too long or can't avoid the rush, he might change his mind. Winning means a lot too. 8-8 is one thing. If the Broncos go 4-12 this year, you're going to see a lot more guys wanting out next offseason. Bank it.

Show me some quotes where players are packing it in? Please, ive got some spare time to wait today. All ive seen thus far is players saying that they believe in the Coach and in the system. Whether or not it comes to fruitition is beyond the point. The point is that they believe and thats all that matters. You can claim all night and day long to throw your "hypothetical" theories on here but at the end of the day the players are telling you your wrong.

Of course they say that on Broncos TV!!! Do you talk junk about your boss in front of his face in the company newsletter? If there's one place that guys will carry the party line, it's Broncos propaganda TV! Strange how straight shooters like Champ and DJ don't get interviewed much anymore like they used to. It's all rookies and new vet Free Agents who are just thrilled to be here. No Scheff, no Champ, no DJ. Where's the team leadership? They had to snag Rod Smith during mini-camp for an interview so the fans could see one familiar face! That disturbs me. That leads me to believe there's more going on than meets the eye. I don't care what Orton, Sims, Dawkins and Buckhalter have to say. Of course they're going to be positive - they just got here and got paid! The only familiar face they put on is Eddie Royal. Probably because he's new and classy and he won't say anything negative even if he feels it.

Ive worked many jobs in my lifetime and its NEVER fair there. Even at the jobs that i really like it was never fair. Its a business and especially when you get a new boss there are going to be some changes and a different way of thinking. If your an employee and you dont understand that concept than your in for a rude awakening. Ive watched my mother in law who was one of the most well respected people at my last job get let go because she "costs" too much. Now, Jay didnt get cut because of costs. And he was one of the better players on the team. But he didnt show or prove to the new FO that he had what it took "mentally" to be a leader here and thus traded away his value. I wouldnt be surprised if McD saw all the things after Shanahan was fired and all the issues with Rivers and say to himself "You know, i want to see how much resolve this kid has. I wonder how he would respond to a trade rumor?" Sure, i have nothing to back that up but hell i might of done the same thing just to see how he handled it. Jay Cutler is a gifted athlete but he has some serious maturity issues (more than the normal player) and this is why i compare him to George in terms of attitude.

He's a multimillion dollar athlete, not a receptionist. He's a pro bowler, not someone you can replace cheaper for minimal impact because he's a dime a dozen. Don't try to spin it. McD got caught trying to trade Cutler away on the down low and then got caught in a lie trying to deny it. I don't care who you are, being lied to doesn't breed comraderie, loyalty, or team spirit. I'm in the military and can be told to do just about anything without the option of saying "no", but it doesn't mean that me or any other military members enjoy being lied to or that it improves our morale.

As ive stated, this is a new regime. I think what we are seeing is spoiled kids under Shanahan who when told there are going to be some changes some dont react well to it. But hey, thats life. You can either fold up your tent and go home or fight through it and prove your worth to the new guys in charge. I would of had far more respect for Cutler if he would of just shown up and used his playing to prove how wrong McD was in even considering a trade. Instead, Jay failed that test. And you know what dude? We as fans are being tested now. Either we can rise up and give this new regime a chance or we can fold up our tents and go home crying. If you've been a fan of this team as long as you say than you should know well by now that there are ups and downs along the way.

I don't like being tested. I don't pay my hard earned dollars supporting my team to pay salaries so i can be "tested" on my loyalty. I pay to see a winner. I'll be a fan win or lose, but if I don't think the team has my interests at heart and winning at heart, I'm not going to be happy about it. i don't work for them... they work for us as fans!

In 94' i was starting to wonder if John was ever going to get his ring. Well, Shanahan comes in and all of sudden the rest is history. And although you might say that Jay was the best thing we've had since then there is one thing that John had that Jay doesnt right now. Strong Character. Even though John got down when times were tough he never gave up or forced his way out of Denver. And right now Jay is missing that aspect of his game and in my eyes it cost him a fan of his.

Like I said in my previous post, I think Jay's character was put to the test during his struggle to get diabetes under control and lead this team with zero help from the defensive side of the ball. I think you'd find that Elway would'nt have taken lightly the idea of being traded for a one year semi-wonder QB, either. If I remember correctly, he pulled the same thing demanding a trade from Baltimore or he was going to play baseball - so I guess he was a low character guy, too. Maybe you should've withdrawn your fanship of him, too.

Damn, I wish I knew how to do the whole multi-quote thing...

dogfish
06-21-2009, 04:39 PM
Don't be so fast.

I just got emailed a draft copy of the Broncos 2009-2010 Fan Etiquette Rules and Guidelines that McDaniels had the front office put together and reportedly will be sent to all season ticket holders.

It clearly states that no front office or head coaching decisions may be questioned. It is in section IV of the handbook.

yea, i guess that would go right along with prohibiting fans from calling doogie insulting nicknames on the team's official site. . . . .







BEWARE OF GREEKS BEARING GIFTS as the old saying goes.




racist. . . . :coffee:




:laugh:

Jaded
06-21-2009, 05:16 PM
There is no way of knowing what you'd get in return for Brandon Marshall, so anybody that insists that Denver is better off without Brandon Marshall is kidding themselves, and this "Screw the clown" act is especially hilarious.

Ya'll act like the NFL is full of perfect solutions and it's just a matter of building a team full of 53 Kyle Orton's.

"Let Brandon Marshall be some other teams problem, we've got Brandon Lloyd and an extra draft pick......Championship".......Nay, I say!!!!!!!.......Dynasty.......

elsid13
06-21-2009, 05:23 PM
Don't be so fast.

I just got emailed a draft copy of the Broncos 2009-2010 Fan Etiquette Rules and Guidelines that McDaniels had the front office put together and reportedly will be sent to all season ticket holders.

It clearly states that no front office or head coaching decisions may be questioned. It is in section IV of the handbook.

Remember he's smarter then us, just ask him.

Jaded
06-21-2009, 05:25 PM
yea, i guess that would go right along with prohibiting fans from calling doogie insulting nicknames on the team's official site. . . . .






racist. . . . :coffee:




:laugh:

So true.

I used to call Lane Kiffin "Doogie", I never got a 100+ point IP.......I also can't help but notice that calling Cutler/Marshall every name in the book isn't Modded nearly as relentlessly.

Words don't adequately describe how pathetic that is.......

Northman
06-21-2009, 08:18 PM
It really isn't about money with Marshall. If it was he'd be holding out not asking to be traded right away. He knows he can get paid. There are teams out there right now, even with his off field problems, that are willing to pay him more than we are. He was extremely dissappointed with the way the team handled the Cutler trade. He made it known in an interview the week after it happened. I've been expecting this. Scheffler was no different except that he started showing up (probably because he needs the money) but was also talking about holding out and there were trade rumors swirling about him, too.

You have any links where it has Brandon stating its not about money and more to do with Jay's trade? If so, please post them i must of missed those.


How about McDaniel's immaturity? Jay came to the meeting trying to bury the hatchet and move on and McD belittled him and criticized his play. Not exactly the way you handle things as an executive (as McD is now, like it or not) when you are dealing with your best employee - a coveted one by other companies at that.

Actually, McD was being honest with Jay which is what Jay was complaining about after the trade rumor. He just didnt happen to like what was being said. When you ask for someone to be honest you cant turn around and be mad about it. Even after that both Bowlen, McD, and his teammates tried to reach out to him only to have him ignore them. Again, the ownage is on Jay here.


Really? Manning has already criticized the hell out of his FO for allowing Moore and Mudd to retire. Classy! I can guarantee you that "Peyton the magnificent" and "Tom Terrific" would be raising hell, too if they were the subject of trade talks and caught wind of it through the media, not from the FO itself. You can't lump Young into this because he was unproven at the time. Scratch that, all he had proven was that he wasn't very good. He was brought in to back up Montana, not replace him. Montana was nearing the end of his career not in the prime of it. Had Young been traded for Montana, there would've been a hailstorm of biblical proportions in SF.

Irony. Cutler hasnt proven anything either at this point.


And we know this how? How many times have we seen players that everyone thought was "team first" and a model citizen decide to ask for a trade? It happens all the time. It doesn't necessarily make them a bad person, either. Some guys just want to win. Champ is one of them. If we deplete our roster too badly, Champ may decide that he wants tyo go somewhere that has a chance to win a Championship. Clady has been here 1 year with 1 coach. How do we know he's some pariah of team spirit? Maybe he liked protecting Cutler. Maybe when his #'s drop this year because Orton holds the ball too long or can't avoid the rush, he might change his mind. Winning means a lot too. 8-8 is one thing. If the Broncos go 4-12 this year, you're going to see a lot more guys wanting out next offseason. Bank it.

Oh, your right. Guys like Moss and Owens have multiple championships now after leaving their teams for Championships. I forgot. Thanks.


Of course they say that on Broncos TV!!! Do you talk junk about your boss in front of his face in the company newsletter? If there's one place that guys will carry the party line, it's Broncos propaganda TV! Strange how straight shooters like Champ and DJ don't get interviewed much anymore like they used to. It's all rookies and new vet Free Agents who are just thrilled to be here. No Scheff, no Champ, no DJ. Where's the team leadership? They had to snag Rod Smith during mini-camp for an interview so the fans could see one familiar face! That disturbs me. That leads me to believe there's more going on than meets the eye. I don't care what Orton, Sims, Dawkins and Buckhalter have to say. Of course they're going to be positive - they just got here and got paid! The only familiar face they put on is Eddie Royal. Probably because he's new and classy and he won't say anything negative even if he feels it.

Bronco's tv? Are you ******* serious? I live in Bmore and Denver gets no love out here. But at least we've learned one thing from your post here is that if you dont say anything negative your classy. So i guess that makes Jay Cutler a classless *****. Thanks for clearing that one up for us. :lol:


He's a multimillion dollar athlete, not a receptionist. He's a pro bowler, not someone you can replace cheaper for minimal impact because he's a dime a dozen. Don't try to spin it. McD got caught trying to trade Cutler away on the down low and then got caught in a lie trying to deny it. I don't care who you are, being lied to doesn't breed comraderie, loyalty, or team spirit. I'm in the military and can be told to do just about anything without the option of saying "no", but it doesn't mean that me or any other military members enjoy being lied to or that it improves our morale.

Your right, lying is bad. Jay should of never lied to his teammates about only playing for them. Again, you cant have it both ways. If McDaniels is somehow this low life piece of crap that your trying to paint here your golden boy Cutler is in the same vein. Thanks again.


I don't like being tested. I don't pay my hard earned dollars supporting my team to pay salaries so i can be "tested" on my loyalty. I pay to see a winner. I'll be a fan win or lose, but if I don't think the team has my interests at heart and winning at heart, I'm not going to be happy about it. i don't work for them... they work for us as fans!

Unfortuantely you dont have a choice of being tested or not. As fans we are subject to change. And as ive pointed out repeatedly, the Broncos have already had up and down years and things have turned out just fine.


Like I said in my previous post, I think Jay's character was put to the test during his struggle to get diabetes under control and lead this team with zero help from the defensive side of the ball. I think you'd find that Elway would'nt have taken lightly the idea of being traded for a one year semi-wonder QB, either. If I remember correctly, he pulled the same thing demanding a trade from Baltimore or he was going to play baseball - so I guess he was a low character guy, too. Maybe you should've withdrawn your fanship of him, too.

No, Elway was actually going to be replaced by a guy who was just drafted. I would think that senario is worse yet Elway didnt start crying or whining about it. He went about it as business as usual and did his thing like a consummate professional does. As for his bailing on Bmore? He hadnt done squat in the NFL at that point so i guess like your Steve Young example that holds no comparison here.

Lonestar
06-21-2009, 10:06 PM
You have any links where it has Brandon stating its not about money and more to do with Jay's trade? If so, please post them i must of missed those.



Actually, McD was being honest with Jay which is what Jay was complaining about after the trade rumor. He just didnt happen to like what was being said. When you ask for someone to be honest you cant turn around and be mad about it. Even after that both Bowlen, McD, and his teammates tried to reach out to him only to have him ignore them. Again, the ownage is on Jay here.



Irony. Cutler hasnt proven anything either at this point.



Oh, your right. Guys like Moss and Owens have multiple championships now after leaving their teams for Championships. I forgot. Thanks.



Bronco's tv? Are you ******* serious? I live in Bmore and Denver gets no love out here. But at least we've learned one thing from your post here is that if you dont say anything negative your classy. So i guess that makes Jay Cutler a classless *****. Thanks for clearing that one up for us. :lol:



Your right, lying is bad. Jay should of never lied to his teammates about only playing for them. Again, you cant have it both ways. If McDaniels is somehow this low life piece of crap that your trying to paint here your golden boy Cutler is in the same vein. Thanks again.



Unfortuantely you dont have a choice of being tested or not. As fans we are subject to change. And as ive pointed out repeatedly, the Broncos have already had up and down years and things have turned out just fine.



No, Elway was actually going to be replaced by a guy who was just drafted. I would think that senario is worse yet Elway didnt start crying or whining about it. He went about it as business as usual and did his thing like a consummate professional does. As for his bailing on Bmore? He hadnt done squat in the NFL at that point so i guess like your Steve Young example that holds no comparison here.



IIRC John had a long chat with PAT about that and ultimately one of the reasons Dan was fired.. they had to bring in a buffer for awhile and brash young Assistant mikey..

Northman
06-21-2009, 10:30 PM
IIRC John had a long chat with PAT about that and ultimately one of the reasons Dan was fired.. they had to bring in a buffer for awhile and brash young Assistant mikey..

Yea, i remember that. How interesting though that Pat was trying to get Jay to talk to him too and get things worked out and yet Jay ignored him. In fact, the word was Pat was extremely disappointed that Jay flat out ignored him which helped Pat's decision to trade him much easier. Just further proof for me that once Shanahan was let go Jay no longer wanted to be here with or without the trade proposal.

Jaded
06-22-2009, 12:53 AM
From what I gather, apparently there are 4 sides to this story:

Jay Cutler's side.

The Broncos side.

The truth.

And what Pat Bowlen remembers.......

HORSEPOWER 56
06-22-2009, 03:37 PM
You have any links where it has Brandon stating its not about money and more to do with Jay's trade? If so, please post them i must of missed those.



Actually, McD was being honest with Jay which is what Jay was complaining about after the trade rumor. He just didnt happen to like what was being said. When you ask for someone to be honest you cant turn around and be mad about it. Even after that both Bowlen, McD, and his teammates tried to reach out to him only to have him ignore them. Again, the ownage is on Jay here.



Irony. Cutler hasnt proven anything either at this point.



Oh, your right. Guys like Moss and Owens have multiple championships now after leaving their teams for Championships. I forgot. Thanks.



Bronco's tv? Are you ******* serious? I live in Bmore and Denver gets no love out here. But at least we've learned one thing from your post here is that if you dont say anything negative your classy. So i guess that makes Jay Cutler a classless *****. Thanks for clearing that one up for us. :lol:



Your right, lying is bad. Jay should of never lied to his teammates about only playing for them. Again, you cant have it both ways. If McDaniels is somehow this low life piece of crap that your trying to paint here your golden boy Cutler is in the same vein. Thanks again.



Unfortuantely you dont have a choice of being tested or not. As fans we are subject to change. And as ive pointed out repeatedly, the Broncos have already had up and down years and things have turned out just fine.



No, Elway was actually going to be replaced by a guy who was just drafted. I would think that senario is worse yet Elway didnt start crying or whining about it. He went about it as business as usual and did his thing like a consummate professional does. As for his bailing on Bmore? He hadnt done squat in the NFL at that point so i guess like your Steve Young example that holds no comparison here.


Look brother, you and I are never going to agree on this so lets just hope that your version is what comes true. It's going to cut a lot of us fans deep if the broncos can't field a competitive team - not just this year (which I expect) but for the long term. :shots:

sacmar
06-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Screw marshall and any other player/fan that isn't 100% down with our team. I don't want to win that bad. Cutler and marshall took us where ?? A mediocre season topped off with one of the most embarassing finishes i can remember. Screw marshall take your ass on and take anyone who agree's with your disloyal ass with you. We don't need these guys and their raider-esqe bullsh*&t.

SmilinAssasSin27
06-23-2009, 05:53 PM
Profootballtalk.com passes along "rumblings" that the Browns are interested in trading for Brandon Marshall.

PFT didn't reveal the source of the rumblings, but they did say the return package would include returner Josh Cribbs and one or more draft picks. It seems like an odd pairing, as the Browns already have a No. 1 receiver of their own looking for a new contract.

HORSEPOWER 56
06-23-2009, 06:35 PM
Profootballtalk.com passes along "rumblings" that the Browns are interested in trading for Brandon Marshall.

PFT didn't reveal the source of the rumblings, but they did say the return package would include returner Josh Cribbs and one or more draft picks. It seems like an odd pairing, as the Browns already have a No. 1 receiver of their own looking for a new contract.

I'd take Edwards straight up in trade. Cribbs would be a nice addition to the STs, but he really hasn't established himself as a reliable WR, yet. I'm not quite as confident in our WR corps without Marshall as some of my brothers and sisters on this board. I just don't see Eddie Royal as a true #1 yet (he's a guy that profits big time from having someone draw coverage away from him) and Stokely isn't getting any younger and can barely finish a season not injured these days. Gaffney is nothing more than a journeyman backup and he proved it in both Houston and NE. Unless Chad Jackson really blooms or McKinley is all that and a bag o' chips, Our WR Corps will be average at best this season without Marshall. I really have zero faith that Brandon Lloyd will be a contributor.

Like it or not, without Marshall we're right back to the post Ed McCaffrey days where Rod Smith was our only reliable target - and that assumes Eddie Royal is the next Rod Smith.

SmilinAssasSin27
06-23-2009, 06:58 PM
I have faith in Royal. Oakland was supposed to have one of the best CB tandems in the league last year and Royal torched their entire secondary WITHOUT BMarsh even suited up. Every WR is better w/ a legit partner.

That being said, hell no to Cribbs. Yes to Edwards, but no to the returnman.

BroncoWave
06-23-2009, 07:50 PM
I have faith in Royal. Oakland was supposed to have one of the best CB tandems in the league last year and Royal torched their entire secondary WITHOUT BMarsh even suited up. Every WR is better w/ a legit partner.

That being said, hell no to Cribbs. Yes to Edwards, but no to the returnman.

Agreed. Cribbs is of no value to us. I'd still prefer us be able to work it out with BM but if not, I would happily take Edwards in return.

jrelway
06-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Screw marshall and any other player/fan that isn't 100% down with our team. I don't want to win that bad. Cutler and marshall took us where ?? A mediocre season topped off with one of the most embarassing finishes i can remember. Screw marshall take your ass on and take anyone who agree's with your disloyal ass with you. We don't need these guys and their raider-esqe bullsh*&t.

so youd be happy with royal and gaffney this season? ortons gonna need all the help he can get. WR's like this dont come around often. we cant win with a bunch of rudys on our team.

T.K.O.
06-24-2009, 05:54 PM
so youd be happy with royal and gaffney this season? ortons gonna need all the help he can get. WR's like this dont come around often. we cant win with a bunch of rudys on our team.

we also cant win with a bunch of guys who arent happy playing for the broncos,regardless of the reason.
i would take a happy rookie with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove,over a vet who plans on being a pain in the a$$ til he gets what he wants.
that being said i think as soon as the court thing is cleared up,as long as it doesnt cause a suspension,the f.o. will cough up the dough to keep brandon in the orange and blue !
if not so be it we can get some good value out of him and carry on with the rebuilding.
we have alot more weapons than people think and a coach who knows how to get the most out of his players.i hope b stays but we'll be ok without him:salute:

T.K.O.
06-29-2009, 03:33 PM
New coach Josh McDaniels and new QB Kyle Orton may have a disgruntled WR to deal with when the Broncos' season begins.
AP
Peter King's Mailbag
Peter King will answer your questions each week in Monday Morning Quarterback: Tuesday Edition.






A few thoughts on the terminal ugliness in Denver, Roger Goodell being plagued by the stalling injustice of Plaxico Burress (with a judge echoing me in deriding the legal process), and the Brett Favre HBO interview before I get to your mail:

• The Brandon Marshall story is starting to smell like the Jay Cutler fiasco, with one exception: The Broncos are clamming up. During the Cutler thing, Josh McDaniels was an open book, talking to me four or five times at length about everything -- how he had nothing against Cutler, how he didn't offend him (in his view), about how he wanted Cutler to be his quarterback. But Monday night, I texted McDaniels, who is a big texter. Nothing. Texted his assistant and got back that the coach is laying low and had nothing to say for now. Texted Marshall, who's also a texter. Nothing. So this one's going to be contested below ground, it appears.

My feeling is the Broncos will play a harder brand of hardball with Marshall, in part because he's the second star trying to shoot his way out of town in four months. Owner Pat Bowlen might regret how precipitously the organization acted in rushing a franchise quarterback out of town if this stalemate with Marshall lasts into training camp.

Yes, Marshall wants to be traded. Now the interesting story is whether Denver will acquiesce and, if so, what sort of precedent that will set. Cutler seemed to write a how-to book on The Right Way To Force a Trade. If the Broncos deal Marshall, the next time a star feeling underpaid (Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Eddie Royal, i.e.) wants out, the Broncos will have shown they're weak and ineffective with unhappy players. That's why I feel strongly they won't let Marshall out, and they'll let him sit as long as he wants, even if that means he won't be in camp by September.

dogfish
06-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Yes, Marshall wants to be traded. Now the interesting story is whether Denver will acquiesce and, if so, what sort of precedent that will set. Cutler seemed to write a how-to book on The Right Way To Force a Trade. If the Broncos deal Marshall, the next time a star feeling underpaid (Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Eddie Royal, i.e.) wants out, the Broncos will have shown they're weak and ineffective with unhappy players. That's why I feel strongly they won't let Marshall out, and they'll let him sit as long as he wants, even if that means he won't be in camp by September.

this is exactly the concern i've been stating about potentially trading marshall! i thought they should have waited jay out, and i sure hope they approach it differently this time. . . .

T.K.O.
06-29-2009, 04:50 PM
this is exactly the concern i've been stating about potentially trading marshall! i thought they should have waited jay out, and i sure hope they approach it differently this time. . . .

i know what you mean,its odd that there arent more people who remember one very telling comment by jay the day of the trade.
he said "i never really thought it would get this far"
that means (even though he and his agent formally requested it) he really never wanted to leave denver.but by the time he realized how far it did go....it was too late.
and he would have looked really bad had he said after the fact...i was just trying to get a fat contract. but he basically admitted as much.
i think both mcd and marshall (and bowlen for that matter) learned alot from the cutler mess.
it just still baffles me that people blame bowlen and mcd for cutler leaving after he said what he said.
i think it will be hilarious if mcd gets the broncos to the playoffs this year with orton at qb....and yes i do think its possible !
jay will feel like a real dumb arse if that happens

SoCalImport
06-29-2009, 05:06 PM
If the Broncos deal Marshall, the next time a star feeling underpaid (Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Eddie Royal, i.e.) wants out, the Broncos will have shown they're weak and ineffective with unhappy players. That's why I feel strongly they won't let Marshall out, and they'll let him sit as long as he wants, even if that means he won't be in camp by September.

Exactly the reason NOT to trade him.
B.Marsh/a new contract/his trade value be damned!

This is about setting a precedent.

Lonestar
06-29-2009, 06:36 PM
I had thought this was somewhat under control. then WAM Pat announces to the world he will be traded for failing to call him back. That was the point of no return.