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Lonestar
06-11-2009, 05:39 PM
by John Czarnecki
John Czarnecki has been the editorial consultant for FOX NFL Sunday since its 1994 inception. This season marks Czarnecki's 32nd year covering the NFL. He is one of 44 selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Any one wonder why broncos get no love at the HOF


We keep hearing that teams (well, the owners) can't wait for 2010, the so-called uncapped season, because they will use the opportunity to drastically reduce player salaries. It is the financial black cloud hanging over any future collective bargaining negotiations. The owners view it as their big hammer, the biggest negotiating tool they can use to show the players how life and a lower payroll will be without a ballooning salary cap.

Of course, the union is snickering at these claims. They don't believe the owners, many of them who want to be competitive, will be able to really control themselves. They have never shown any signs in the past. In every free-agency period, they have thrown cash around like it is Monopoly money while the players laugh all the way to the nearest bank.
They did it again this year, judging by the following — this offseason's riskiest signings.


1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks: Yes, Housh led the Bengals last season with 92 receptions, but only for a paltry 9.8 yards a catch and four touchdowns. Yes, he is a solid receiver, but Seattle paid him like he's a No. 1 receiver, and at 32 years old he'll make $7 million. Next season the price tag rises to $8 million plus.

In a bidding war, he was able to collect $14.5 million over two seasons. The Seahawks have this thing about paying decent receivers, thinking they are as good as Larry Fitzgerald or Steve Smith. They did the same, exact thing with Deion Branch a few years back.

2. C Jake Grove, Dolphins: This ex-Oakland center and former second-round pick is a blue-collar type player, the kind that Bill Parcells loves ... when he plays, that is.

Grove missed 14 of 32 games over the last two seasons with the Raiders, yet based on that dependency he was rewarded with $14.5 million in guaranteed money. I have said all along that offensive linemen have been rewarded the most during the halcyon days of free agency. One team's good player is paid by another team as some superstar.

3. CB Andre Goodman, Broncos: This cornerback was a very average player in his first few years in the league, but he started 16 games last season in Miami and had his best year with five interceptions, the most in his seven-year career. He has 12 overall. In seven seasons.

Yet the Broncos stepped up and rewarded Goodman with a $10 million signing bonus. Believe me, he's no Champ Bailey. And he isn't that great in man-to-man coverage. Expect him to get burned by the Chargers.

4. WR Michael Clayton, Buccaneers: This receiver has been a disappointment ever since his 2004 season when he was the Offensive Rookie of the Year in Tampa Bay. Yes, he has the size (6-4 and 215) to be spectacular, but he has only two touchdown catches in the last four years.

He only had 38 catches for 484 yards last year, but the Bucs were so afraid of losing him that they gave him a $26 million contract over five seasons with $10.5 million guaranteed. Clayton loves the new offense and publicly ripped into former coach Jon Gruden. Well, Clayton had better be more productive. Tampa spent way too much money on a hunch that his production fell off solely because of not seeing eye-to-eye with Gruden.

5. S Gibril Wilson, Dolphins: The Dolphins once again are going for another so-called blue-collar player who started at safety for the Giants when they beat the Patriots. But the Giants allowed him to leave to Oakland last season, where he started and collected $8.4 million in bonuses. Al Davis couldn't wait to unload him after Wilson had just two interceptions and three fumble recoveries. Wilson doesn't run well, so Miami cut his bonus down to $5 million this year.

6. RB Cedric Benson, Bengals: This running back was finally run out of Chicago after being a first-round bust, but he's apparently found a home in Cincinnati, getting $7 million over the next two seasons.

The Bengals rewarded him for three 100-yard games last season, including 171 yards against the lowly Cleveland Browns in late December. He finished the year with 25 carries for 111 yards in another win against the Chiefs. But those were two of the league's worst run defenses a year ago. Rewarding Benson doesn't make much sense based on his past indiscretions and hefty bank account. He strikes me as a pay-as-you-go kind of player.

What does Marvin Lewis do if Cedric doesn't truly show up this season?


Will the Broncos regret throwing big bucks at the 36-year-old Dawkins? (Doug Pensinger / Getty Images)

7. S Brian Dawkins, Broncos: I love this player, but $9.5 million over two years seems a tad much for a 36-year-old safety entering his 14th season with all those welts on his body after years of big hits. The Broncos are paying for his leadership, on and off the field. Knowing "Dawk," he will give it his all, wanting to prove to the Eagles that they made a mistake allowing him to leave.
8. C Jason Brown, Rams: The Rams are taking a lot of heat for signing this ex-Raven to a five-year, $37.5 million contract that includes $20 million in guarantees, including roster bonuses.

Remember, how financially rewarding free-agency has been to offensive linemen. Brown is only 26 and a solid 320 pounds, and the Rams, whose best player in running back Steven Jackson, were desperate for an anchor to their horrible offensive line. When you are a loser like the Rams, sometimes you have to overpay for quality.

The bottom line is that Baltimore wanted to keep him at this price. Instead, they gave perennial All-Pro Matt Birk $6 million, who was disliked by the Minnesota coaching staff, to replace him.

9. OT Orlando Pace, Bears: The Bears believe they got this former All-Pro for a bargain at $6 million for this season. Yes, he's a bargain if he can protect Jay Cutler like he used to protect Kurt Warner in St. Louis.

But what if his shoulders go out again? It's a lot of money for a former great player who started only nine games combined in the 2006-07 seasons.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9662424/Nine-signings-that-GMs-will-regret-the-most

T.K.O.
06-11-2009, 08:47 PM
they're wrong !:D

broncohead
06-11-2009, 08:49 PM
What FA potential starter isn't overpaid. Everyone is in a bidding war. Usually the highest bid wins.

Nature Boy
06-11-2009, 10:45 PM
Most you homers may think it's far fetched but I agree with Czarnecki.

.

dogfish
06-11-2009, 11:42 PM
woe is me, why does the media hate us so?

Nature Boy
06-11-2009, 11:55 PM
Seriously, is Andre Goodman really all that good? Is he better than Dre Bly? I don't think so.

And Dawkins, well he is 36 yrs old, not gonna get any faster and has all sorts of ailments; shoulders, head(concussions), etc.

.

BroncoWave
06-12-2009, 12:17 AM
Seriously, is Andre Goodman really all that good? Is he better than Dre Bly? I don't think so.

And Dawkins, well he is 36 yrs old, not gonna get any faster and has all sorts of ailments; shoulders, head(concussions), etc.

.

You're right, we should have just kept the exact same defensive players we had last season. I mean, look at the mad rush to sign all the players we let go of. Oh wait...

G_Money
06-12-2009, 12:48 AM
He's not wrong about either player.

Which is why we drafter our 2nd round...er...first rounder in Smith, and why we added 2 safeties in the draft as well.

Dawkins is not a long-term solution and Goodman has put together exactly one good season. But both are fighters and we're counting on Dawkins to run a locker room the way it should be run and teach the kids how to be leaders and competitors who leave it all on the field.

If neither pans out...well, we've already drafted for that possibility. If they're fine but let down by their DL and pass-rush, well, then young or old, talented or not in the secondary, we're still screwed.

So hopefully they work out, AND their drafted replacements work out, and the pass-rush and DL situation resolves itself, and we can all dance round the maypole in giddy glee.

Maypoles rock.

~G

Shazam!
06-12-2009, 01:37 AM
. Dawkins is not a long-term solution and Goodman has put together exactly one good season. But both are fighters and we're counting on Dawkins to run a locker room the way it should be run and teach the kids how to be leaders and competitors who leave it all on the field.

You cannot put a price on this, and it was missing without leaders like Lynch and Al. Denver needed this desperately.

NameUsedBefore
06-12-2009, 02:58 AM
I agree with both assessments, especially on Goodman. I think we overpaid Dawkins as well, but as the writer says there are some intangibles there that can't be overlooked.

Nature Boy
06-12-2009, 03:20 AM
He's not wrong about either player.

Which is why we drafter our 2nd round...er...first rounder in Smith, and why we added 2 safeties in the draft as well.

Dawkins is not a long-term solution and Goodman has put together exactly one good season. But both are fighters and we're counting on Dawkins to run a locker room the way it should be run and teach the kids how to be leaders and competitors who leave it all on the field.

If neither pans out...well, we've already drafted for that possibility. If they're fine but let down by their DL and pass-rush, well, then young or old, talented or not in the secondary, we're still screwed.

So hopefully they work out, AND their drafted replacements work out, and the pass-rush and DL situation resolves itself, and we can all dance round the maypole in giddy glee.

Maypoles rock.

~G

Um... I would like to trade Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith(2nd rounder with 1st round cost) and Richard Quin(2nd rounder) for Jay Cutler please... I'll even throw in next year's 2nd rounder(is sure to be a high 2nd rounder). Heck I'll even throw in Chris Simms. Is that giving away too much or is that not enough?

.

anton...
06-12-2009, 03:26 AM
Um... I would like to trade Kyle Orton, Alphonso Smith(2nd rounder with 1st round cost) and Richard Quin(2nd rounder) for Jay Cutler please... I'll even throw in next year's 2nd rounder(is sure to be a high 2nd rounder). Heck I'll even throw in Chris Simms. Is that giving away too much or is that not enough?

.

is that all that you would sacrifice???!?!? :confused:

i would go as far as trading the best thing to ever happen to our team in decades ---> http://thehollywoodham.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/hamsandwich_a.jpg

:marchmellow:

G_Money
06-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Um... I would like to trade Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith(2nd rounder with 1st round cost) and Richard Quin(2nd rounder) for Jay Cutler please... I'll even throw in next year's 2nd rounder(is sure to be a high 2nd rounder). Heck I'll even throw in Chris Simms. Is that giving away too much or is that not enough?

But the point of the article wasn't "questionable draft day trades" or "debatable QB switches." It was about free agent signings, and the only one of those that came as a FA was Simms. The fact that he's pushing Orton for a starting slot means he would have probably been a good backup for Cutler. Better than our last one.

And now we'll get to see how good McDaniels is in his evaluations of the talent that should be playing for him and the talent he's not interested in.

~G

G_Money
06-12-2009, 09:03 AM
You cannot put a price on this, and it was missing without leaders like Lynch and Al. Denver needed this desperately.

We did need it, and we definitely missed it. But neither Wilson nor Lynch passed on that gift to anyone on the team when they left. Maybe it was a failure in the types of players we had. I've said many times that DJ was never a leader in HS or college and expecting him to be in the pros would be a problem. Woodyard was a leader at both, and if he winds up having the talent to play in our new D maybe he can pick up from Dawkins and company what's needed.

He missed the Al and John (and Rod, and...) instructional sessions, as did many of the young guys who might lead like Royal, so out of our kids I'm hoping some of the younguns this time around can pick up the torch instead of dropping it in a lake.

~G

broncofaninfla
06-12-2009, 09:03 AM
I don't know much on Goodman, over paid I'm sure but didn't the Fins have a pretty good day against our receivers last year and wasn't he in on that?

GEM
06-12-2009, 09:10 AM
Um... I would like to trade Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith(2nd rounder with 1st round cost) and Richard Quin(2nd rounder) for Jay Cutler please... I'll even throw in next year's 2nd rounder(is sure to be a high 2nd rounder). Heck I'll even throw in Chris Simms. Is that giving away too much or is that not enough?

.

Jay is gone....you can always pick up the Chicago games to enjoy him. Shanny is gone...you can go hide in the bushes around his 34K sf house to enjoy him. MOVE ON. At this point...your posts come off as whiny and don't add a single thing to a conversation.

LRtagger
06-12-2009, 10:52 AM
MOVE ON....come off as whiny...

reminds me of a certain ex-Bronco.

broncofanatic1987
06-12-2009, 11:04 AM
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Broncos will regret signing Goodman and Dawkins. There is every reason to believe that the secondary has been improved by the moves the Broncos have made this offseason. That includes signing Goodman and Dawkins. How is that reason to believe that the Broncos will regret signing them?:rolleyes::confused:

GEM
06-12-2009, 11:05 AM
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Broncos will regret signing Goodman and Dawkins. There is every reason to believe that the secondary has been improved by the moves the Broncos have made this offseason. That includes signing Goodman and Dawkins. How is that reason to believe that the Broncos will regret signing them?:rolleyes::confused:

As if Goodman and Dawkins just showing up isn't a HUGE upgrade over the two M's from last year. :laugh:

WARHORSE
06-12-2009, 11:20 AM
I think people will be surprised at how well our corners do this year.

New England likes to funnel opposing receivers to the secondary. Its a corners dream. Im pretty sure thats whats going to be happening here.


Besides........will Goodman tackle in the run game?

Then hes already a huge step over Bly.


BDawk is worth every cent.........

Superchop 7
06-12-2009, 11:24 AM
This team sorely needed a leader in the locker room.

I have no problem with Dawkins, it was a smart move.

The rest of the $$ that got thrown around.....well.....we wasted our $$ imo.

Nature Boy
06-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Jay is gone....you can always pick up the Chicago games to enjoy him. Shanny is gone...you can go hide in the bushes around his 34K sf house to enjoy him. MOVE ON. At this point...your posts come off as whiny and don't add a single thing to a conversation.


Pat Bowlen is a idiot for firing Shanahan and an even idiot for hiring McDummass leading to the biggest trade debacle in more than a decade in losing Cutler.

I'm sure 99% of you guys would trade everything plus the kitchen sink to get Cutler back.

.

Nature Boy
06-12-2009, 02:14 PM
The fact that he's pushing Orton for a starting slot means he would have probably been a good backup for Cutler. Better than our last one.

~G

Yup, We gave away a super talented young QB for 2 average at best QBs.
Yes, Simms or Orton would be decent backups for Cutler but now we have 2 back up QBs battling for the starting spot.

With the extra picks we got from Chicago for the trade, we have Alphonso Smith(might I add we spent a 1st rounder to get a 2nd rounder) and Roberts Ayers. Hopefully at least 1 of those 2 guys pan out or we will have traded Cutler away for 3 average players(2 average QBs equals 1 player because only one can play at a given time).

.

Lonestar
06-12-2009, 02:29 PM
It's ridiculous to suggest that the Broncos will regret signing Goodman and Dawkins. There is every reason to believe that the secondary has been improved by the moves the Broncos have made this offseason. That includes signing Goodman and Dawkins. How is that reason to believe that the Broncos will regret signing them?:rolleyes::confused:


I think he is saying that for the money they are not long term fixes..

but then you have to realize this mope is one of the reasons we only have one LEGIT lifetime Bronco in the HOF.. while ZIM got in it was not because of his Bronco time only but mainly for his previous team time.. Perhaps one of the reasons that TD and Sharpe did not go first ballot..

Lonestar
06-12-2009, 02:33 PM
Yup, We gave away a super talented young QB for 2 average at best QBs.
Yes, Simms or Orton would be decent backups for Cutler but now we have 2 back up QBs battling for the starting spot.

With the extra picks we got from Chicago for the trade, we have Alphonso Smith(might I add we spent a 1st rounder to get a 2nd rounder) and Roberts Ayers. Hopefully at least 1 of those 2 guys pan out or we will have traded Cutler away for 3 average players(2 average QBs equals 1 player because only one can play at a given time).

.


I guess you missed this following post concerning your previous rant on this so thought perhaps you should get another chance to see it..




Jay is gone....you can always pick up the Chicago games to enjoy him. Shanny is gone...you can go hide in the bushes around his 34K sf house to enjoy him. MOVE ON. At this point...your posts come off as whiny and don't add a single thing to a conversation.



I added the highlights as my part of the conversation..

Nature Boy
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
I guess you missed this following post concerning your previous rant on this so thought perhaps you should get another chance to see it..



Quote:
Originally Posted by GEM View Post
Jay is gone....you can always pick up the Chicago games to enjoy him. Shanny is gone...you can go hide in the bushes around his 34K sf house to enjoy him. MOVE ON. At this point...your posts come off as whiny and don't add a single thing to a conversation.



I added the highlights as my part of the conversation..


I haven't posted here for a long time(hangover from the Shanahan, McDaniels, Cutler debacle), so I feel I reserve the right to rant all want til McDaniels proves me wrong or when he is fired(sooner than later I hope).

You guys who don't like my rants over this matter can activate the ignore feature. But if I am breaking a forum rule with my rants then I will stop but I don't see any rules against it.

.

Lonestar
06-12-2009, 03:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a long time(hangover from the Shanahan, McDaniels, Cutler debacle), so I feel I reserve the right to rant all want til McDaniels proves me wrong or when he is fired(sooner than later I hope).

You guys who don't like my rants over this matter can activate the ignore feature. But if I am breaking a forum rule with my rants then I will stop but I don't see any rules against it.

.


your absolutely correct there is no hard fast rule against ranting on why Josh will not be a great coach or that we made some trades you do not like..

But I do have to say, repeating the same thing every time is spam, baiting, or trolling all of which are actionable..

it is suggested that Y'all take that to mind when posting the same drivel post after Post..

Nature Boy
06-12-2009, 03:45 PM
your absolutely correct there is no hard fast rule against ranting on why Josh will not be a great coach or that we made some trades you do not like..

But I do have to say, repeating the same thing every time is spam, baiting, or trolling all of which are actionable..

it is suggested that Y'all take that to mind when posting the same drivel post after Post..

Sure will, but it's my 1st multiple post day in a long long while so I don't think I'm over doing it. Like I said, use the ignore feature.

.

Krugan
06-12-2009, 08:10 PM
So, repeating a "opinion" is a actionable offense?

Or is it repeating an opinion that a moderator doesnt agree with?

Ive heard from certain mods here, continous shanny bashing, cutler bashing and the like, should that not be something to keep an eye on?

On a side note, we signed old,over priced free agents, STILL. Didnt that get a certain ex coach mashed from a certain fan base?

Now, froma fence seat, the Broncos had to do something, anything to fix the crapmastery that we have watched the last several years. Im just not sure the signings that have been made really improve us much.

Lonestar
06-12-2009, 08:54 PM
So, repeating a "opinion" is a actionable offense?

Or is it repeating an opinion that a moderator doesnt agree with?

Ive heard from certain mods here, continous shanny bashing, cutler bashing and the like, should that not be something to keep an eye on?

On a side note, we signed old,over priced free agents, STILL. Didnt that get a certain ex coach mashed from a certain fan base?

Now, froma fence seat, the Broncos had to do something, anything to fix the crapmastery that we have watched the last several years. I'm just not sure the signings that have been made really improve us much.

I'd say when the post is almost verbatim in the same thread or in 3-4 other threads that could be called spam. At least when I do it there is some semblance of logic to it.. and it is not cut and pasted from thread to thread.. BTW if you think I'm trolling, spamming, baiting folks report it.. I can take the heat..

that said we have signed a lot of folks that may or may not improve our team to early to tell but I do not think they are going to hurt the team that has been a very lousy team the past few years.. when you get beat up at home and play with no heart well that is the lousy meter I use.. this team has been spiraling into the toilet for years.. and there has been almost NO players that have wound up with new contract after their rookie one.. beyond DJ, Hamilton I can't think of one..

in case you have not heard mike has had the worst draft record from 2000-05..

you build a team via the draft and fill in spots via FA just opposite of the way mike was doing it..

broncofanatic1987
06-13-2009, 11:56 AM
I think he is saying that for the money they are not long term fixes..

but then you have to realize this mope is one of the reasons we only have one LEGIT lifetime Bronco in the HOF.. while ZIM got in it was not because of his Bronco time only but mainly for his previous team time.. Perhaps one of the reasons that TD and Sharpe did not go first ballot..

I think the Broncos signed both players knowing that they weren't long term fixes. They almost undoubtedly signed them for short term success and leadership. If they get what they want, they aren't going to regret signing them. They paid what they believe is a fair price to get what they want from those two players. It doesn't matter that they appear to be overpaid. Teams only regret signing players when they don't get what they want out of those players. There's no reason to believe that the Broncos won't get what they want out of Goodman and Dawkins.