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Cugel
06-01-2012, 12:26 PM
Here's a new article on Broncos DT Derek Wolfe. Apparently Wolfe was Jack Del Rio's pick as much as anybody. You can see who had the influence in the Broncos war room: Elway relied on Fox & Del Rio and Xanders was marginalized. Soon he was gone ("and there was much rejoicing").

Broncos defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio has a keeper in Derek Wolfe
(http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20756359/broncos-defensive-coordinator-jack-del-rio-has-keeper-derek-wolfe)


When it came time for the Broncos to choose from an assortment of quality defensive tackles in the draft, somebody had to speak first.

It was Jack Del Rio who became the influential voice. Unemployed when he showed up at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., during Super Bowl week, Del Rio kept giving standout marks to a relentless, tough kid named Derek Wolfe. This was while Del Rio was still an unemployed NFL coach. He interviewed with Broncos head coach John Fox in Alabama for the team's defensive coordinator job. . . .

Later, as the Broncos' scouting and front-office staff discussed the pros and cons of draft-eligible players, there was some concern that Wolfe, at 295 pounds, might be a tweener. A bit big for defensive end. A bit small for defensive tackle.

"From an initial scouting look, we wondered if he was not necessarily a fit for us," Del Rio said. "The way I started, I said: 'This is the kind of guy that Pittsburgh takes, and he plays for the next 10 years. They just had a guy like that who just retired.' "

They mean Aaron Smith, who I believe was a 6th round pick or something.

This is the best article that has come out explaining the Broncos selection of Wolfe.

Del Rio wanted a versatile DE/DT combo and Wolfe fits that role, just as I have been posting since the draft:


He's not a big tackle right now. So right now his body type is probably more of a base end that can slide inside (in the nickel). We'll play him at both spots. That's extra value.

That means Wolfe WON'T be starting at DT this season, but he might well replace Ayers at LDE and slide inside to UT on pass-rush situations to take advantage of his inside pass-rush ability.

If true this would give the Broncos the starting DL rotation of:

LDE -- Wolfe
LDT -- Bannan
RDT -- Vickerson
RDE -- Dumervil

Backups:

LDE -- Ayers
LDT/RDT: Thomas or Warren or Siliga or somebody

This means the Broncos are beefing up the DL. "We'll be stout in there" Del Rio says (including the LDE).

Bannan and Vickerson are going to be in the 320-330 lbs. range and they are the likely starters. Either Warren or Thomas comes back and they'd be likely starters, or they go elsewhere and Siliga makes the team. I have no idea who the 4th DT is in that scenario, but they could conceivably pick one up after the June cuts or if someone is released from another team during training camp.

Either way Wolfe was picked because he's "a good, smart player who is going to play a long time," Del Rio said. "He cares. He's intelligent. He plays hard. I see this (Derek Wolfe) being that kind of guy. He's a worker. He's got rush ability."

That means he's a low-ceiling, but high-floor kind of guy. He might not have the same "upside potential" of some of the more highly touted guys the Broncos passed on in the draft like Kendall Reyes, Jerell Worthy and Kevin Still, but he also doesn't have the bust factor of any of them. Like those Pittsburgh DEs Del Rio mentions he could be a 10 year guy -- plug him in and you get a starter for the next ten seasons and don't have to worry about him doing his job.

It's unlikely the Broncos will regret picking him. I expect he'll contribute this season and for quite a few seasons to come. Eventually, he'll beef up a bit and take over the UT spot permanently but that might come next season.

Chef Zambini
06-01-2012, 01:27 PM
no sheep in wolfes' clothing.

Superchop 7
06-01-2012, 02:03 PM
Its Devon Still, not Kevin.

It was a slick move by Elway to get a DE and have the fanbase think he got a DT.

Pretty sure it was Greg Robinson that started the bandwagon on Wolfe......

Cugel
06-01-2012, 02:43 PM
It was a slick move by Elway to get a DE and have the fanbase think he got a DT.

Pretty sure it was Greg Robinson that started the bandwagon on Wolfe......

That's not at all what they did. If the guy was 320 he'd be a 1st rounder and probably a top 15 pick and the Broncos could never draft him.

But at 6'5" 295 he's a bit of a "tweener" so teams shy away from him a bit, despite his having high energy, good character, being a hard worker with decent pass-rush skills and good hand strength and great general fitness.

The Broncos start him out at DE and he can bulk up over the next 12 months and by the time he's ready to start at DT he's 315-320 and better able to anchor against the run.

He contributes this year, but his current weight and strength is just the beginning. He's got a big frame and can add some weight and still maintain his core strength and speed.

He's not going to stay at DE for his career. He's only going to add to the versatility of the DL.

I wasn't that high on the pick because he wasn't on any of the mock drafts. But, that just means that he's not the proto-typical DT at this point. Well, so what? He clearly fits the scheme of what Del Rio is trying to do and immediately strengthens the run defense at LDE.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
06-01-2012, 02:49 PM
I like what I hear, but I disagree that he'll start at LDE. I believe that's still Ayers job. I think Wolfe will be used rotationally at both spots.

Cugel
06-01-2012, 03:05 PM
I like what I hear, but I disagree that he'll start at LDE. I believe that's still Ayers job. I think Wolfe will be used rotationally at both spots.

You could be right. Ayers could start and Wolfe back up. It depends on how quickly he develops.

CoachChaz
06-01-2012, 03:09 PM
All I see is Ayers improving. If that continues, I will not assume Wolfe will take too many snaps away from him.

Jsteve01
06-01-2012, 04:16 PM
All I see is Ayers improving. If that continues, I will not assume Wolfe will take too many snaps away from him.

Amen, Ayers was extremely solid as the year went on. All he does is anchor. Anything you get from him as a pass rusher is gravy. i think he'll end up being a 6-8 sack per year guy and really help in the run game and as a pass rusher in the nickle. The great thing is that he and Wolfe will push each other. Ayers is a high character guy who finally will have some stability this year after getting an offseason at DE and a chance to play his second year in a row at his natural position.

bcbronc
06-01-2012, 06:32 PM
If Wolfe does see time at DE imo it will be at the expense of Doom not Ayers. Wolfe at LDE and Ayers at RDE would be pretty "stout".

I think everyone agrees that playing the run isn't Doom's strong suit and rotating him out on 1st and sometimes 2nd down will just make him that much more effective rushing the QB.

I'm a big fan of how much potential versatility there is now on our DL.

Jsteve01
06-01-2012, 06:36 PM
good point bc

Cugel
06-01-2012, 07:56 PM
If Wolfe does see time at DE imo it will be at the expense of Doom not Ayers. Wolfe at LDE and Ayers at RDE would be pretty "stout".

I think everyone agrees that playing the run isn't Doom's strong suit and rotating him out on 1st and sometimes 2nd down will just make him that much more effective rushing the QB.

I'm a big fan of how much potential versatility there is now on our DL.

I thought of that too. The problem is that you want Doom in the game as much as he can be, except on obvious running downs.

The idea is to get as many pass-rushers in the front 7 as you can on passing downs.

That would mean:

LDE: Ayers
LDT: Bannan
RDT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil
SLB: Miller

on every passing downs you can. That limits the substitution of Wolfe for Doom. They want them both on the field at the same time on passing downs.

But, they could certainly move him around on the line a bit too. He's strong and big enough to play DE in rushing situations, but he's a bit large for a RDE in place of Doom on passing downs. He'd be going up against agile LTs.

I don't see that as his role too much, unless Doom is injured.

NorCalBronco7
06-01-2012, 07:57 PM
Wolfe could move to end on certain packages. I can definitley invison that. Ayers isnt exactly a good pass rusher, and Wolfe may already be better in certain looks at end.

But Wolfe is, imo, a DT and thats where hes going to play a majority of his snaps, even right off the bat. But hay, whatever puts pressure on Ayers to be the player the Broncos drafted him to be, the better.

Cugel
06-01-2012, 08:01 PM
Wolfe could move to end on certain packages. I can definitley invison that. Ayers isnt exactly a good pass rusher, and Wolfe may already be better in certain looks at end.

But Wolfe is, imo, a DT and thats where hes going to play a majority of his snaps, even right off the bat. But hay, whatever puts pressure on Ayers to be the player the Broncos drafted him to be, the better.

I'm basing my idea that Wolfe will start out being primarily a DE directly from Del Rio's comments:


He's not a big tackle right now. So right now his body type is probably more of a base end that can slide inside (in the nickel). We'll play him at both spots. That's extra value.

"Sliding him inside in the nickel" means on passing downs they'll use him at UT where he can try and penetrate and get upfield to generate pass rush pressure, otherwise "his body type" makes him a better match at DE for now.

He'd have to bulk up some to be effective in anchoring at DT in the run. That was a criticism that led to his falling to the 2nd round of the draft. I.e. that he's a "tweener" too small to be an every down DT.

He'll need to bulk up and add muscle without losing his speed to be effective against 330 lbs. OL in the run game.

NorCalBronco7
06-01-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm basing my idea that Wolfe will start out being primarily a DE directly from Del Rio's comments:


"Sliding him inside in the nickel" means on passing downs they'll use him at UT where he can try and penetrate and get upfield to generate pass rush pressure, otherwise "his body type" makes him a better match at DE for now.

He'd have to bulk up some to be effective in anchoring at DT in the run. That was a criticism that led to his falling to the 2nd round of the draft. I.e. that he's a "tweener" too small to be an every down DT.

He'll need to bulk up and add muscle without losing his speed to be effective against 330 lbs. OL in the run game.

I dont see a 295 pound player being a tweener. I cant think of any LEs who play at that weight in a 43.

All Del Rio is saying is Wolfe is a capable pass rusher, but hes need to gain weight if he wants to be a force in the middle. When it comes to coaches talking anything scheme related, I dont take them at their word. Del Rio can make Wolfe out to be an exteremly verstatile lineman that can play mulitple postion, and he may be right, but Wolfe, to my knowledge never played end in his career.

bcbronc
06-01-2012, 08:14 PM
Cug, most people don't view 1st down as a passing down.

NorCalBronco7
06-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Cug, most people don't view 1st down as a passing down.

According to pass/run ratios, sure, the majority of plays on all downs are going to be pass plays. Thats the way the NFL today.

bcbronc
06-01-2012, 08:39 PM
According to pass/run ratios, sure, the majority of plays on all downs are going to be pass plays. Thats the way the NFL today.

Sure, but you're not going to send out your pressure package on first down, at least not until you get a lead. Generally speaking.

tomjonesrocks
06-01-2012, 08:44 PM
Nice article and explanation. I am a bit more sold on the pick after reading that.

NorCalBronco7
06-01-2012, 08:46 PM
Sure, but you're not going to send out your pressure package on first down, at least not until you get a lead. Generally speaking.

So then how is 1st down a passing down? I dont know, just sounds wrong. The Broncos are going to have Mays and other players that stuff the run on 1st/2nd downs on the field to defend the run first. Im not 100% sure, but the majority of running plays are on first down. Ive never heard a coach call 1st down a passing down, but Ive heard many call it a running down.

bcbronc
06-01-2012, 09:19 PM
So then how is 1st down a passing down? I dont know, just sounds wrong. The Broncos are going to have Mays and other players that stuff the run on 1st/2nd downs on the field to defend the run first. Im not 100% sure, but the majority of running plays are on first down. Ive never heard a coach call 1st down a passing down, but Ive heard many call it a running down.

I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying every down is a passing down in today's NFL (and that's true to a point). I agree that first down isn't a passing down, which is why imo you take out Doom not Ayers if you want Wolfe playing LDE.

Cugel
06-04-2012, 10:49 AM
I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying every down is a passing down in today's NFL (and that's true to a point). I agree that first down isn't a passing down, which is why imo you take out Doom not Ayers if you want Wolfe playing LDE.

That could be, but if they see LDE Ayers, LDT Bannan, RDT Vickerson, RDE Wolfe on first down, then that would be a great time to pass wouldn't it? Because that lineup can't generate much pressure on the passer.

TXBRONC
06-04-2012, 11:26 AM
I think what Elway and Fox said after the draft is that Wolfe will be rotating in and out at defensive tackle and that might be used at defensive end in certain packages.

Cugel
06-04-2012, 02:53 PM
Del Rio just said that as of now, his "body type" is better suited to DE than DT because he's still a bit of a "tweener." Too small to be an every-down DT, especially as Del Rio says "we're going to be stout in there."

"Stout" in reference to DTs means 330 lbs. not 290.

So, Elway's reference to Wolfe as a DT who can also slide out and play DE in certain situations is a LONGER TERM vision. That's where they want him to end up, not necessarily where he is now, if Del Rio is to be believed in the Post article (linked on this very site).

NightTerror218
06-04-2012, 02:55 PM
Del Rio just said that as of now, his "body type" is better suited to DE than DT because he's still a bit of a "tweener." Too small to be an every-down DT, especially as Del Rio says "we're going to be stout in there."

"Stout" in reference to DTs means 330 lbs. not 290.

So, Elway's reference to Wolfe as a DT who can also slide out and play DE in certain situations is a LONGER TERM vision. That's where they want him to end up, not necessarily where he is now, if Del Rio is to be believed in the Post article (linked on this very site).

Depends on how well he plays. If he is a true UT and can disrupt the middle then he will stay at DT even for his size. We need pressure up the middle and if he can do that, then great.

turftoad
06-04-2012, 03:38 PM
They drafted Wolfe to collapse and pressure from the interior pocket. If he can stop the run, great.

bcbronc
06-04-2012, 04:35 PM
That could be, but if they see LDE Ayers, LDT Bannan, RDT Vic kerson, RDE Wolfe on first down, then that would be a great time to pass wouldn't it? Because that lineup can't generate much pressure on the passer.

OkAy, but what do you gain taking Ayers out and replacing him with Wolfe? Ayers is already our best run stuffing DE so it seems unlikely you'll get an upgrade there by playing a rookie DT out of position.

More pass rush? I dunno, maybe. But I feel Ayers still has some untapped upside in that regards, and if you want pass rush from Wolfe ur bettter leaving him inside.

For my eyes the only way it makes sense to play Wolfe at DE is if you want a run stuffing package. In which case taking Ayers out and leaving Doom in just gets you back where you started...at best.

Jsteve01
06-04-2012, 06:35 PM
OkAy, but what do you gain taking Ayers out and replacing him with Wolfe? Ayers is already our best run stuffing DE so it seems unlikely you'll get an upgrade there by playing a rookie DT out of position.

More pass rush? I dunno, maybe. But I feel Ayers still has some untapped upside in that regards, and if you want pass rush from Wolfe ur bettter leaving him inside.

For my eyes the only way it makes sense to play Wolfe at DE is if you want a run stuffing package. In which case taking Ayers out and leaving Doom in just gets you back where you started...at best.

Ayers progressed well last year. I also think he's a guy who benefits from having big bodies in the middle to allow him more freedom as a pass rusher and not just a POA guy.

Cugel
06-05-2012, 12:36 PM
They drafted Wolfe to collapse and pressure from the interior pocket. If he can stop the run, great.

They drafted Wolfe to be an every down DT. He's 6'5" and has a long frame. They think he can bulk up and add muscle without sacrificing his speed or pass-rush moves.

If so then they got what they drafted -- an elite DT. They think he's a hard worker with the intelligence to succeed in the NFL.

They see him as another Aaron Smith, the former Steelers DT who played for 11 seasons. In his last season as a starter Smith got 60 tackles and 5.5 sacks. Del Rio sold Elway on Wolfe by saying that he's "the type of player Pittsburgh takes all the time and they plug him in and he plays 10 years." Smith was 6'5" 290, just like Wolfe is.

In their eyes Wolfe can be an every-down, long-term, high energy kind of player. You plug him in and forget about worrying about his position for the next six or eight years.

If they're right and Wolfe does start for the next 7 or 8 seasons then that's a great 2nd round pick.

NightTerror218
06-05-2012, 01:15 PM
Wolfe Von Doom!!!!

NightTerror218
06-05-2012, 01:15 PM
Doomer, Mauler and Wolfe :D

LTC Pain
06-05-2012, 01:36 PM
Von Doom Wolfe - sounds bad ass!

hotcarl
06-05-2012, 02:09 PM
who cares

Day1BroncoFan
06-05-2012, 06:40 PM
who cares

Most people with brains.