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D1g1tal j1m
06-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Wiegmann frustrated with his situation

June 8, 2009 6:25 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

Denver Pro Bowl center Casey Wiegmann told the Colorado Springs Gazette on Monday he wants a contract extension.

Wiegmann indicated he could consider retirement if he doesn't get an extension prior to training camp. Wiegmann, who'll turn 36 shortly before the start of camp, said it would be "tough" to report to training camp without a new deal.

Wiegmann's agent and the team have discussed a contract, but a deal is not close. Wiegmann decided in early February to return the 2009 season. However, his agent, Joe Linta, has said often that Wiegmann was hoping to get a new deal. He signed a modest two-year deal with Denver's previous regime last year. After long-time Denver center Tom Nalen, who is now retired, couldn't play in 2009 because of a knee injury, Wiegmann emerged as a Pro Bowl player.

If Wiegmann were to decide to retire, Denver's likely center would be second-year player Kory Lichtensteiger.

underrated29
06-09-2009, 10:59 AM
We need him and he deserves it.

Dont F this up josh. Give him a beefier contract with tons of money in incentives. That way you can save face by extending a solid player and casey will play his butt off just like he did last year.

Sadly when things are this easy for me to see, its always the opposite that happens.

G_Money
06-09-2009, 11:00 AM
Been expecting that for 6 months.

I hope Casey gets his deal, but if not, that Kory is the man that I think he can be at the position. Interesting timing by Wiegmann.

~G

Buff
06-09-2009, 11:09 AM
Wiegmann is clinging to the last shred of leverage that he'll ever have in his career.

He knows that he's not going to top his performance last season, and he's not getting any younger, so I can't say that I blame him for trying... But at the same time, he's 36, undersized and doesn't exactly fit the mold of a McDaniels o-lineman.

I assume we'd be willing to give him a modest raise for this season, but if he's looking for multiple years I think he's dreaming.

honz
06-09-2009, 11:09 AM
I can't wait to hear what JR has to say about an ACTUAL holdout.

G_Money
06-09-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm sure Wiegmann just doesn't understand how friggin' awesome it'll be to play for Josh McDaniels.

If he properly understood he would be paying the Broncos for the privilege, not the other way round.

Casey was criminally underpaid last year for his performance. That happens. So we might wind up overpaying for his last year or two in the league if we want him around. *shrugs* But that sorta depends on McDaniels and what he thinks of Lichtensteiger, or about paying a player he didn't pick to fit his scheme.

~G

Timmy!
06-09-2009, 11:51 AM
This is retarded, and a no-brainer. Give the old man some more $$$$, as long as it isn't stupid insane amounts (which I doubt he's asking for.) He played like a grey haired badass last year. He has one year left in the tank, probably won't be as good as last year, but I'd still rather have him starting than Litch (for this year anyway). He might be undersized, but he made the friggin pro-bowl. Our questionable QB could use an OL that is returning 100% intact. We can afford it, give the guy some more bones, and call it good. It's not that tough?

:der:

Dortoh
06-09-2009, 12:10 PM
I say let him hold out for a good portion of training camp then give him his contract extension. We get our guy at C and he gets to stay freshish for a 36 year old olineman.

broncofaninfla
06-09-2009, 12:47 PM
We need him, he's earned it pay him

Dean
06-09-2009, 01:31 PM
Been expecting that for 6 months.

I hope Casey gets his deal, but if not, that Kory is the man that I think he can be at the position. Interesting timing by Wiegmann.

~G

I wonder if the timeing has to do with the part of this article that I have in bold print.




June 8, 2009 - 1:53 PM
FRANK SCHWAB
THE GAZETTE
Denver Broncos Pro Bowl center Casey Wiegmann is participating in offseason practices and workouts, but he expressed frustration that he has not been given a contract extension and indicated he might re-evaluate his future if he doesn't get a contract extension before training camp.

Wiegmann, who will turn 36 on July 20, considered retirement in the offseason. He decided to come back with one year left on his current contract, which he said wasn't an easy decision with new coach Josh McDaniels coming in with a new offensive system to learn. Wiegmann said if Mike Shanahan had remained coach, he believes he would have had a contract extension a week after last season was finished.

Wiegmann said there has been some contact between his agent and the Broncos, but there hasn't been any recent movement.

"It's not really going anywhere," Wiegmann said after a passing camp practice Monday. "It's kind of frustrating, especially when they want reliability. I'm probably one of the more reliable players. We'll see. They have another month and a half to get something done."

Training camp begins in a little more than a month and a half, in late July. When asked if he would consider coming to training camp without a contract extension, Wiegmann said he didn't know.

"It would be tough. It would be really tough," Wiegmann said. "A lot of things you have to discuss with your family, and my wife. There's also stuff that weighs in the back of your mind and what's going on, and if you can leave healthy in this game, it's always a good thing."

Wiegmann, who signed with Denver last offseason and started 16 games after Tom Nalen went down with a knee injury, is slated to make $1.145 million this season. Wiegmann did not explicitly say he would retire or stay away from training camp without a contract extension, but admitted it was possible.

"There's certain things that should happen, the way I played last year," said Wiegmann, who played in his first Pro Bowl.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said the team has had conversations with Wiegmann's representatives, but also indicated nothing is imminent.

"It is where it is," McDaniels said. "There's nothing much more to talk about. He is under contract, and if we can get something done we will."

When asked about the possibility of Wiegmann staying away from training camp or more, McDaniels didn't sound concerned.

"I'm not going to worry about it right now," McDaniels said. "We've had conversations, and we'll see what happens."

Wiegmann has started 127 straight games, which is most among NFL centers. He also said he has been at almost every offseason workout.

"I just know I've done my job here, I showed up the entire offseason program," Wiegmann said. "I missed one OTA (organized team activity) because we celebrated my dad's 60th birthday party. For a guy going into his 14th year, he shouldn't be doing all the stuff our weight coach is doing, and I've done everything. I'm just doing my part. Now I'm going to see what they're going to do."

He said he has participated in the offseason workouts because he wanted to show the Broncos he wants to play this season.

"I want to be here, but everything has to be the right situation, too," Wiegmann said.

I wonder if he is worried about a preseason injury.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Could care less. Place the German in there. They are good at bulldozing things and ******* shit up. Kory all the way.

Timmy!
06-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Dream is off the meds again.

WARHORSE
06-09-2009, 02:45 PM
The man was signed as a backup.


He went to the probowl.




If hes asking for the bank, tell him to go home, thank you very much.

If he will agree to a reasonable reward for his services, and his services have been worthy of such, then pay the man.


This guy has played excellently for YEARS.

KC was STUPID to let him go.


Lets not look like KC.

powderaddict
06-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Unfortunately for Casey he will be looked at what he can do going forward, not what he did in 2008.

If he's wanting a long term contract, I can understand why the FO would balk. If he's just wanting a modest raise and not more than 1-2 years, I say pay him.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-09-2009, 05:22 PM
Teddy KGB: Pay that man. . . pay that man his money.

broncohead
06-09-2009, 06:39 PM
I don't think he should get a bigger contract. Yes he was good for the zone blocking scheme but it's changing. Also 1 good year as a starter does not warrent a new contract imo. He's will probably be on a year to year desicion on retiring. We have a good OL and I'm sure there already is someone pushing for the starting spot (Linch). Let him walk if he wants.

Dean
06-09-2009, 09:28 PM
I don't think he should get a bigger contract. Yes he was good for the zone blocking scheme but it's changing. Also 1 good year as a starter does not warrent a new contract imo. He's will probably be on a year to year desicion on retiring. We have a good OL and I'm sure there already is someone pushing for the starting spot (Linch). Let him walk if he wants.

They are paying him the minumum $385 000 I believe. That is insulting even for a starter who plays poorly. It is ridiculous for a pro-bowl player.

Give him a bonus, add incentives to his contract, work it however they want but pay the man the money.

Tned
06-09-2009, 09:35 PM
The man was signed as a backup.


He went to the probowl.




If hes asking for the bank, tell him to go home, thank you very much.

If he will agree to a reasonable reward for his services, and his services have been worthy of such, then pay the man.


This guy has played excellently for YEARS.

KC was STUPID to let him go.


Lets not look like KC.

For some reason I thought this was already taken care of.

The point I heard him or his agent make, was exactly what you posted in the first couple lines. He signed a backup level contract, since he was supposed to backup Nalen. He wound up taking over the starting job and had an excellent season. After the season he had, and the fact he is now a starter, he believes he deserves an extension and bump to 'starter' level pay.

On the one hand, I subscribe to the 'you signed a contract, honor it' philosophy, but on the other hand I think a club should reward outstanding performance, and considering he came in on a low contract and filled a big need when Nalen went down, I tend to think the guy should get his extension/renegotiation.

frauschieze
06-09-2009, 09:37 PM
In the interest of luring future free agents here, I think it's very important we handle this contract negotiation correctly. Wiegmann played his heart out last year. Seeing him take on Kris Jenkins single handedly was amazing and I'll never forget it. Maybe he won't be as effective this year because of the change in scheme or because he's another year older. I still believe he deserves a raise.

What I don't want more than anything else, is for free agents to think they won't get a fair shot in Denver if they overperform. McDaniels has already been under scrutiny for the way he handled Cutler. This is about the good of the team going forward just as much as it is about Wiegmann getting paid.

broncohead
06-09-2009, 09:54 PM
They are paying him the minumum $385 000 I believe. That is insulting even for a starter who plays poorly. It is ridiculous for a pro-bowl player.

Give him a bonus, add incentives to his contract, work it however they want but pay the man the money.

I can see giving a new contract to a player that will produce and be here for another 3 or more years but I don't see him playing in the league that long. You don't give a new contract to a player based on what he did last season you give it to him for what he'll do in the future.

rcsodak
06-09-2009, 10:00 PM
We need him and he deserves it.

Dont F this up josh. Give him a beefier contract with tons of money in incentives. That way you can save face by extending a solid player and casey will play his butt off just like he did last year.

Sadly when things are this easy for me to see, its always the opposite that happens.

Why you telling McD to take care of it? He's the HC.

nevcraw
06-09-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't think he should get a bigger contract. Yes he was good for the zone blocking scheme but it's changing. Also 1 good year as a starter does not warrent a new contract imo. He's will probably be on a year to year desicion on retiring. We have a good OL and I'm sure there already is someone pushing for the starting spot (Linch). Let him walk if he wants.


Did you forget about his previous gazilion years in KC where he anchored the top one or 2 lines in football? He wasn't playing the ZBS there.. He still can flat out play and centers can play old.

His job is to be smart and tough. Check and Check.. Lock it up Xanders!

broncfn90
06-09-2009, 10:07 PM
knowing the story by now this team will trade him.... awesome..... bunch of idiots

broncohead
06-09-2009, 10:09 PM
Did you forget about his previous gazilion years in KC where he anchored the top one or 2 lines in football? He wasn't playing the ZBS there.. He still can flat out play and centers can play old.

His job is to be smart and tough. Check and Check.. Lock it up Xanders!

He's already talking about retiring unless he gets more money. How much modivation does he have to continue playing after this year? Also I don't think he is as good as people are making him out to be. He had Kuper and Hamilton who are both good gaurds. He's only average imo.

frauschieze
06-09-2009, 10:25 PM
He's already talking about retiring unless he gets more money. How much modivation does he have to continue playing after this year? Also I don't think he is as good as people are making him out to be. He had Kuper and Hamilton who are both good gaurds. He's only average imo.

Did you WATCH the Jets game last year? :shocked:

Lonestar
06-09-2009, 10:29 PM
The man was signed as a backup.


He went to the probowl.




If hes asking for the bank, tell him to go home, thank you very much.

If he will agree to a reasonable reward for his services, and his services have been worthy of such, then pay the man.


This guy has played excellently for YEARS.

KC was STUPID to let him go.


Lets not look like KC.

the key to this a reasonable contract if he is asking for the moon then NO.

He played well for us last year and probably would again.. But remember last year when he signed he was happy for a TWO year deal.. sometimes you get what you asked for.. and then you have to earn it..


Hope he does not hold out as all it will do is give his replacement all that many more reps.. which would be stupid for him to do..

Lonestar
06-09-2009, 10:39 PM
Did you WATCH the Jets game last year? :shocked:



I'd rather have Weigmann and get rid of Hamilton.. he is on skates to much.. Kuper is an animal that is only going to get better..

now I have not seen Lichtensteiger play yet but he was supposedly the best Center in college the year before last.. lets hope he devlops like they hoped he will..

horsepig
06-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Did you forget about his previous gazilion years in KC where he anchored the top one or 2 lines in football? He wasn't playing the ZBS there.. He still can flat out play and centers can play old.

His job is to be smart and tough. Check and Check.. Lock it up Xanders!

Right on nev. He anchored one the all time great lines for years. The center is the signal caller and "QB" of the Oline. Keep this guy here!

broncohead
06-09-2009, 10:57 PM
Did you WATCH the Jets game last year? :shocked:

Just because he lined up across doesn't mean he did it himself. He has 2 guys on either side to help. Don't get me wrong he played well last season but being as old as he is he won't be an asset in 3 years. No point in a new deal

frauschieze
06-09-2009, 11:04 PM
Just because he lined up across doesn't mean he did it himself. He has 2 guys on either side to help. Don't get me wrong he played well last season but being as old as he is he won't be an asset in 3 years. No point in a new deal

Again, I ask, did you watch the Jets game last year? Because Wiegmann took on Kris Jenkins, who outweighed him by a hundred pounds BY HIMSELF and absolutely owned him. It was one on one. Very little, if any, help from Kuper or Hamilton.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-09-2009, 11:26 PM
I could care less if Wiegmann man handled Kris Jenkins. His job is to win battles in the trenches. Kudos to him for doing his job. He is at the tail end of his career and he is not a McDaniels player, so I don't expect us to kurtsy to his demands of a new contract; nor should we. I guess Kory wouldn't be a McDaniels guy either, but I have a feeling he'd be confident in his abilities moving forward.

Hamilton can play center if need be as well, Kory can obviously, and we have versatility with some at guard since we drafted Olsen. I'm not going to shed a tear of Wiegmann decides to hold out or not want to be a part of this team.

frauschieze
06-09-2009, 11:30 PM
So you don't think he should be paid appropriately for the job he does? Remind me not to work for you.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-09-2009, 11:33 PM
So you don't think he should be paid appropriately for the job he does?

He is getting paid appropriately for the job he does. He made the Pro-Bowl. Good for him. That doesn't merit him a new contract. He is 36 years old and the Broncos have at least two other players who can play center, and other guards who could step in if Hamilton were to slide inside. He should be thankful there we gave him a shot when figuratively, nobody else was going to last off-season. He really has no leverage in this situation, so I don't know what he is trying to prove.

frauschieze
06-09-2009, 11:56 PM
He is getting paid appropriately for the job he does. He made the Pro-Bowl. Good for him. That doesn't merit him a new contract. He is 36 years old and the Broncos have at least two other players who can play center, and other guards who could step in if Hamilton were to slide inside. He should be thankful there we gave him a shot when figuratively, nobody else was going to last off-season. He really has no leverage in this situation, so I don't know what he is trying to prove.

He's getting paid backup money to be a starter. He doesn't deserve the moon and the stars, nor a long contract. But he does deserve to be paid more appropriately.

I do agree, I think we'll be okay if he does decide to walk, but it's not going to look good for the team.

dogfish
06-09-2009, 11:56 PM
Also I don't think he is as good as people are making him out to be. He had Kuper and Hamilton who are both good gaurds. He's only average imo.

kuper and hamilton weren't helping him call the protections-- something he did a fantastic job of. . . . playing with a true rookie left tackle from a small program and a may-as-well-be-a-rookie right tackle, our line barely missed a blitz all year. . . that reflects very well on weigmann, and was a big part of surrendering only 12 sacks last year and converting well on third down, especially in third-and-long situations. . . hamilton has part of one year's experience at the pivot in a long NFL career-- lichtensteiger has never played a game on the line at this level. . . can one of those guys step in and not miss a beat?

besides which, we've changed just about every other damn aspect of the team-- it would be really nice to have at least ONE unit come back unchanged, and the best overall unit from last year's team would seem like a good choice. . . it's extremely difficult for me to belive that the guy is looking for some sort of blockbuster deal at his age. . . i think both he and his agent know that he's most likely going to play one more year, two tops-- i doubt they're going for a moonshot type of contract. . . the guy far outperformed his deal, do what's right and offer him a modest raise to a solid starter's pay for a year or two. . . it's not going to break the checkbook. . . . if they can find five million for a stinkin' longsnapper that we didn't even need, they can find a couple of million for a starter coming off a pro bowl year. . . . :coffee:

G_Money
06-10-2009, 12:03 AM
I liked the pick of Kory, but there were also rumblings that they liked him better as a starting G/Backup C a la Hamilton.

I'd still pay Wiegmann his couple mil, as others have said, and let Kory try to dislodge one of Hamilton/Wiegmann. Handing him the job and having no serious backup plan for his failure sounds bad.

If Wiegmann gets injured or underperforms, we have Lichtensteigher waiting for his trial. But if we start with Kory and he gets bitten by injury or suckitude we have...um...crap. Schuetler? Late round rookie who's never seen the system? Slide Hamilton over to C? What?

That's not the best scenario with two QBs in their first year in the system too. Try to keep the line as strong as possible for them please. Orton likes to get hurt and Simms doesn't have any more spleens to donate to the cause.

~G

NameUsedBefore
06-10-2009, 12:15 AM
I say give Casey all the money.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-10-2009, 12:28 AM
If Wiegmann gets injured or underperforms, we have Lichtensteigher waiting for his trial. But if we start with Kory and he gets bitten by injury or suckitude we have...um...crap. Schuetler? Late round rookie who's never seen the system? Slide Hamilton over to C? What?

That's not the best scenario with two QBs in their first year in the system too. Try to keep the line as strong as possible for them please. Orton likes to get hurt and Simms doesn't have any more spleens to donate to the cause.

~G

Considering the Broncos drafted two interior lineman, have two versatile lineman with center ability or experience and haven't catered to Wiegmann's demands thus far, I certainly don't think that they'll be going to meet his desires any time in the near future. At some point, the Broncos are going to have to break in Kory or Blake and let them have their shot. At any case, Kory or Blake could outperform Casey in camp anyways.

This isn't a huge issue.

dogfish
06-10-2009, 12:37 AM
This isn't a huge issue.


that part i agree with, anyways. . . . on a team that's likely to start kyle orton at QB and ronald fields at nosetackle, WTF does it matter who the center is?


:lol: :lol:


you convinced me-- start blake!

Requiem / The Dagda
06-10-2009, 12:38 AM
Hey, Hillis thinks he can make it at linebacker, why don't we put him at center? We can see how much of a gamer he really is.

Tned
06-10-2009, 07:51 AM
In the interest of luring future free agents here, I think it's very important we handle this contract negotiation correctly. Wiegmann played his heart out last year. Seeing him take on Kris Jenkins single handedly was amazing and I'll never forget it. Maybe he won't be as effective this year because of the change in scheme or because he's another year older. I still believe he deserves a raise.

What I don't want more than anything else, is for free agents to think they won't get a fair shot in Denver if they overperform. McDaniels has already been under scrutiny for the way he handled Cutler. This is about the good of the team going forward just as much as it is about Wiegmann getting paid.

Good point. It seems for a long time Denver had a repuation for having a great owner and treating players in a first class manner. There were mix reports on what kind of relationship Shanny had with players, but most of the disgruntled reports came from players that were failures or held out and Shanny didn't cave (like Lelie).

I think it's important that FA's coming to Denver believe that first they will be rewarded if they perform and second, they have a chance to win.

Grover
06-10-2009, 10:50 AM
I think it's the Agent's fault for not building incentive clauses into the contract.
It would have been easy to build in bonuses or increased salary depending on the percentage of snaps he took at Center. Dumb move if you ask me.

I don't agree with the "he signed the contract so he should suck it up and play" argument. Teams terminate employment all the time even with a contract, so everyone knows the guaranteed money is all that can ever be counted on.

I think the Broncos should step up and reward Casey for the great play last year and the prospect of his playing great this year. Let's hope it gets done in the next two days, because mandatory camp starts Friday.

T.K.O.
06-10-2009, 02:04 PM
in this day and age its hard to keep units together,i dont care if he's 50 years old.one of the brightest spots in our offseason and biggest reasons for hope in 09' is that we have one of the best o-lines in the game.and they will all be back.its a chemistry thing and knowing what everyone's gonna do in each situation,losing casey now would seriously set the unit back.
its not like he was a probowl player last year but now he's 6 months older so he will automatically lose a step .
with our qb situation and the new scheme were gonna need every advantage possible.....so PAY THE MAN !
a new 2 year deal with boatloads of incentives,and maybe a nice bonus up front (give him cutlers old house or a wing at shanny's pad )should make everyone happy.

CoachChaz
06-10-2009, 02:37 PM
So, we take a guy sitting in his house without a job and ask him to be the back-up. he accepts and eventually becomes a starter and does an admirable job. Now, he wants a raise.

Fair enough, but what kind of raise? Pay him like a top 5 center because he was 1/5 of a great line? No thanks. Give him a 3 year contract at age 36? No thanks.

I have no problem paying him like a starting center, but it would be a moderate raise and the contract would not exceed 2 years. If he doesnt like it...maybe he can sit at home and hope another team offers him a back-up job like we did.

Thnikkaman
06-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Agent: Wiegmann and Broncos won't fight

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2310/Agent--Wiegmann-and-Broncos-won-t-fight.html

June 10, 2009 3:30 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

The agent for Denver center Casey Wiegmann said the contract discussions between the Pro Bowler and the team will not become acrimonious.
Wiegmann

"No, that will not happen," agent Joe Linta said Wednesday. "We've had a very good experience with the Broncos and that will continue."

Linta has expressed a desire to redo Wiegmann's contract since the player decided not to retire in February. Wiegmann signed a modest two-year contract last year. After starter Tom Nalen couldn't play because of a knee injury, Wiegmann, who'll turn 36 next month, made the Pro Bowl.

Wiegmann told the Colorado Springs Gazette on Monday that it would be "tough" for him not to retire before training camp starts late next month if he isn't given a new contract. Linta said that Wiegmann and the Broncos are on the same page and are communicating.

Linta said it is a tribute to both parties that they said they want to do it "the right way." Wiegmann has participated in all of Denver's offseason activities.

"This has all been above board," Linta said. "Casey is doing it the right way. He is not staying away. He is showing up and doing it the right way. I'm certain the Broncos will, in turn, do the right thing. Both Josh McDaniels (Denver's coach) and Brian Xanders (Denver's general manager) are professionals. We feel good about dealing with them."

While anything can happen, I'd be surprised if this situation got out of control. I don't believe the two sides are far apart. Wiegmann wants to play or he wouldn't be laboring this spring the way he has been and Denver needs him. Because both sides are being civil, I expect some type of accord within the next month.

Grover
06-10-2009, 02:57 PM
I'm glad to see the two sides are working together. But from the agent's comments, complimenting McDaniels and Xanders, I'm thinking there's a little bit of "trying to catch the flies with some honey" going on.

NightTrainLayne
06-10-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm glad to see the two sides are working together. But from the agent's comments, complimenting McDaniels and Xanders, I'm thinking there's a little bit of "trying to catch the flies with some honey" going on.

Maybe so. .. .maybe Casey's agent has learned something that Bus Cook has yet to discover, because that is a big 180 from anything we saw out of Cook during the McJayGate fiasco.

Lonestar
06-10-2009, 03:56 PM
I think it's the Agent's fault for not building incentive clauses into the contract.
It would have been easy to build in bonuses or increased salary depending on the percentage of snaps he took at Center. Dumb move if you ask me.

I don't agree with the "he signed the contract so he should suck it up and play" argument. Teams terminate employment all the time even with a contract, so everyone knows the guaranteed money is all that can ever be counted on.

I think the Broncos should step up and reward Casey for the great play last year and the prospect of his playing great this year. Let's hope it gets done in the next two days, because mandatory camp starts Friday.


I believe what I saw was he might not report to Training camp if he does not have a new contract..

Lonestar
06-10-2009, 04:05 PM
I'm glad to see the two sides are working together. But from the agent's comments, complimenting McDaniels and Xanders, I'm thinking there's a little bit of "trying to catch the flies with some honey" going on.


The only time things should get ugly is when neither side wants it to happen.. or one side is so out of line in want they want is will never happen..

as Dale Carnegie said (the portion of the seminar the Buss missed) in his "How to Win Friends and Influence People" book is, "do not criticize, condemn, nor complain"..

Grover
06-10-2009, 04:22 PM
Dale Carnegie -

I've actually never read that book and I ought to pick it up. I do try to live by the principles of don't condemn or complain, at least not without offering potential solutions.

broncohead
06-10-2009, 05:34 PM
I believe what I saw was he might not report to Training camp if he does not have a new contract..

Then he must not be a team player so get rid of him...

BroncoWave
06-10-2009, 05:46 PM
Then he must not be a team player so get rid of him...

Or does that only apply to Marshall?

Lonestar
06-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Then he must not be a team player so get rid of him...


Or does that only apply to Marshall?

could apply to both..

if your not going to be part of the team your against it..

lets hope neither are issues we have to deal with.

now lets hope marshall shows on Friday..

broncohead
06-10-2009, 06:53 PM
This applied to Cutler and I don't think Marshal or Casey will get special treatement. Casey is saying he might retire if he doesn't get a new contract. I haven't heard from Marshall he will holdout. He says he'll be there.

EMB6903
06-10-2009, 06:55 PM
I know were all fans and get upset when these things happen...

we do need to remind ourselves that this is a business, and holding out for a new contract does not make you less of a team player.

broncohead
06-10-2009, 06:57 PM
I know were all fans and get upset when these things happen...

we do need to remind ourselves that this is a business, and holding out for a new contract does not make you less of a team player.

Or when you ask for a trade. It's just a business and it goes both ways.

Lonestar
06-10-2009, 07:02 PM
I know were all fans and get upset when these things happen...

we do need to remind ourselves that this is a business, and holding out for a new contract does not make you less of a team player.

why?

if they have existing contract they signed without a gun to their heads how does holding out not mean hurting the team?


if they do not have a contract I could almost see your logic..

but since they agreed to play for the stated dollar values they should..


seems pretty simple to me.. the Broncos offered them money in their first years as well as a signing bonus which no doubt they spent.. not knowing if they would be a dud or a superstar.. in this case the player gambled that he would not be any better than he was and signed for less than he should have.. what do they have to cry about?

SoCalBronco
06-10-2009, 07:59 PM
why?

if they have existing contract they signed without a gun to their heads how does holding out not mean hurting the team?


if they do not have a contract I could almost see your logic..

but since they agreed to play for the stated dollar values they should..


seems pretty simple to me.. the Broncos offered them money in their first years as well as a signing bonus which no doubt they spent.. not knowing if they would be a dud or a superstar.. in this case the player gambled that he would not be any better than he was and signed for less than he should have.. what do they have to cry about?

At the same time though. I can totally see where Weigman is coming from. The difference in $ is huge.
I can see making a stand and trying for one last payday before retirement. But if it doesn't happen for him, then he should show up and play anyway. As the contract he signed requires him to do.

broncohead
06-10-2009, 08:03 PM
why?

if they have existing contract they signed without a gun to their heads how does holding out not mean hurting the team?


if they do not have a contract I could almost see your logic..

but since they agreed to play for the stated dollar values they should..


seems pretty simple to me.. the Broncos offered them money in their first years as well as a signing bonus which no doubt they spent.. not knowing if they would be a dud or a superstar.. in this case the player gambled that he would not be any better than he was and signed for less than he should have.. what do they have to cry about?

Same can be said for a team who trades or releases a player before contract is up.

Lonestar
06-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Same can be said for a team who trades or releases a player before contract is up.

yep it can but the player still has his signing bonus in the bank and was paid quite well for playing a game.. until the change the contract to being fully guaranteed they sign the contract at their own peril..

It may be a one way street but it is the only street/option they have..

hey 335K a year to play ball may not be fair but it is 300+K more than I make.. I do not feel all that sorry for him or for that matter marshall how made 2.2 last year with his incentives and is scheduled to make 2.2+ incentives this year.. hardly chicken feed..

invest that wisely and if he plays a few more years he will not have to work all that hard the rest of his life.. spend it foolishly then all bets are off..

anyone here think they can't live on a Quarter million a year?


BTW I have no issues with them giving him more or him asking for more. As I also think he has earned more. How much? that is between the team and him..

BUT holding out is not an option to force their hands..

Grover
06-10-2009, 09:01 PM
JRWIZ States:
anyone here think they can't live on a Quarter million a year?


I don't know, but I'd sure like to TRY not being able to live on that much. When can I start? :wine:

rcsodak
06-13-2009, 11:56 AM
I'd rather have Weigmann and get rid of Hamilton.. he is on skates to much.. Kuper is an animal that is only going to get better..

now I have not seen Lichtensteiger play yet but he was supposedly the best Center in college the year before last.. lets hope he devlops like they hoped he will..

Naw, jr, Hamilton is a very good guard. His crawl-blocking is the best out there!
:D