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Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:07 AM
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Posted: 06/07/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT


Hey, Brandon Marshall: Get with the program. Or get lost.

As you might have heard, the Broncos are going to try something new this season.

They will put the team first.

And Marshall might whole-heartedly embrace the team concept . . . right after he gets a raise from the Broncos.


Talk about putting the money cart before the horse.

Marshall has taken his football and gone home to Orlando, Fla., while new coach Josh McDaniels tries to install a new offense and new attitude with the team here in Denver.

And we all know how the long- distance relationship between McDaniels and former Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler turned out.

Whether you respect it or not, the way McDaniels does business is clear.

The focus on this NFL franchise no longer will be on what individual player wears No. 6 or No. 15, but how a team that has failed to make the playoffs since the 2005 season can increase its number of victories from last season, when the Broncos' collapse down the stretch was almost as unthinkable as Mike Shanahan no longer being the coach for life.

What part of no more me-first attitude does Marshall fail to understand?

The Broncos and Marshall have trust issues.

After producing 104 receptions last season despite playing through a hip injury whose full extent went undiagnosed by the Broncos, Marshall is rehabilitating from recent arthroscopic surgery that will also require him to mend concerns regarding medical treatment from the team, if you believe his agent.

Marshall also wants a significant, immediate bump in his $2.2 million salary to provide him long-term security before a looming labor mess in the NFL seriously affects how the league does business in 2010.

I don't blame Marshall for wanting to get paid. I can understand why he sees himself in the same financial league as Houston receiver Andre Johnson ($7.5 million per year) or Arizona star Larry Fitzgerald ($10 million).

But here's where B-Marsh is being a knucklehead.

His timing stinks.

Like it or not, Marshall must prove his worth all over again to McDaniels.

Truth be known, when Denver dropped three straight games to get bumped from the playoffs, Marshall scored zero touchdowns when the team desperately needed somebody to step up and be a hero.

A court case in which his former girlfriend alleges misdemeanor battery has put Marshall in the unenviable position where he acknowledges one more hiccup could result in another spanking from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

Not to suggest Broncos owner Pat Bowlen has other financial priorities in these uncertain economic times, but that stack of money Marshall wants? Well, it's sitting on a beach in Mexico, where Shanahan is getting paid by Bowlen to do nothing.

In the Not For Long, a hurt player forfeits all leverage in salary negotiations until he is back on the field performing.

Cutler made the mistake of thinking what he had already done on the field as a pro was good enough to impress McDaniels.

When Cutler threw a hissy fit because the new coach was going to explore every avenue to improve a franchise that had obviously gone stale, the Broncos sent their disgruntled quarterback packing.

Everybody is replaceable.

What part of that age-old football idea does Marshall fail to grasp?

The Broncos hired safety Brian Dawkins from Philadelphia to be a leader.

Denver already pays Marshall handsomely to make big plays.

What Shanahan seemed to forget during his final frustrating years as a coach is those two roles are distinctly different.

Count the money?

First, Marshall must prove the Broncos can count on him to make big plays that will take the team where this talented 25-year-old receiver has never been: the NFL playoffs.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12537541?source=rss

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:20 AM
I'll just add if any employee pulled this crap with a NEW boss hired to come in and clean up the mess they would be gone in a heart beat..


any of you that work for a living KNOW this to be true..

JKcatch724
06-07-2009, 04:42 AM
1. Being a wide receiver in the NFL isn't like working in a cubicle for Intel. It's cute to say that "oh... if Brandon was in a REAL working place his ass woulda been fired!" But the fact is he doesn't have a "real life" job. He's a Pro Bowl wide receiver in the NFL. This stuff happens every day. Which brings me to my next point.

2. Marshall deserves the contract. If this were a "real life" job, he'd be hauling in the big bucks by now the way he's performing. He's the best receiver we've had in YEARS and quite honestly we'd be stupid not to give him the deal he wants.

3. Your highlighting/bolding/underlining has officially left my brain boggled.

4. Marshall leaves, Royal is nothing.

Timmy!
06-07-2009, 05:15 AM
Jeebus. Ok...so....nobody that is rehabbing an injury is at camp...but because Marshall isn't, we should throw him to the wolves. Flawless logic. I love it. :rolleyes:


Give it time...if he holds out, it's one thing, for him to rehab away from the team is another. Yes he wants a new contract, and in all honestly, he probably deserves it, or at least some serious conversation for team brass regarding that fact. Other than that, please refer to my first sentence.

roomemp
06-07-2009, 06:23 AM
1. Being a wide receiver in the NFL isn't like working in a cubicle for Intel. It's cute to say that "oh... if Brandon was in a REAL working place his ass woulda been fired!" But the fact is he doesn't have a "real life" job. He's a Pro Bowl wide receiver in the NFL. This stuff happens every day. Which brings me to my next point.

2. Marshall deserves the contract. If this were a "real life" job, he'd be hauling in the big bucks by now the way he's performing. He's the best receiver we've had in YEARS and quite honestly we'd be stupid not to give him the deal he wants.

3. Your highlighting/bolding/underlining has officially left my brain boggled.

4. Marshall leaves, Royal is nothing.


Not showing to camp when the new coaching staff is trying to implement the new offense is a show of bad character. There is a time and place to voice your opinion. Now is not one of them for Marshall

OaklandRaider
06-07-2009, 06:48 AM
4. Marshall leaves, Royal is nothing.

I'd agree with that.

Brandon Marshall really took a LOT of pressure off of Royal last season. If for some strange reason, you guys decide to get rid of Marshall, I would be surprise to see Eddie Royal put up numbers anything close to what he did last season.

I don't see Royal being a number one receiver in this league. I think he always be a very good number two option.

BigSarge87
06-07-2009, 08:49 AM
I'd agree with that.

Brandon Marshall really took a LOT of pressure off of Royal last season. If for some strange reason, you guys decide to get rid of Marshall, I would be surprise to see Eddie Royal put up numbers anything close to what he did last season.

I don't see Royal being a number one receiver in this league. I think he always be a very good number two option.

Yeah, becuase that week 1 game (his first ever as a Pro) where he caught 9 balls for 146 yds and a TD was absolute proof that he can not make it without Marshall.

MadMax
06-07-2009, 09:02 AM
I don't like this article at all. Marshall has denied he is holding out and at this point the only person who has said he is holding out is Klis or someone quoting Klis' article. It seems like Klis had kind of planned on writing this mock-outrage article after the media frenzy grabbed hold of the story. The problem is there wasn't a media frenzy so that makes this angry sounding article look like it doesn't fit. Marshall may be holding out, I don't know, but at least he is doing it in a very quiet manner which shows some respect for what Bronco fans have gone through this season. Klis is a hack when marshall doesn't show up to a mandatory practice or a "credible" journalist talks about his contract demands I'll start listening.

EDIT: Okay its written by Kizla i still think its crap though, there is no new information about this other than Klis' original article so where does he get off stirring the pot like this?

elsid13
06-07-2009, 09:04 AM
Not showing to camp when the new coaching staff is trying to implement the new offense is a show of bad character. There is a time and place to voice your opinion. Now is not one of them for Marshall

Look he been there and participate with coaching staff and learning the playbook. Rehabbing players don't sit in meetings or stand on the field. They spend all their time with the training staff. They are not on the same schedule as players or the coaches. He might pass his teammates in the hallway or in weight room but that it.

Beside seeing how well the training staff has helped last couple of season, I would say Marshall is wrong going with his own "guys"

elsid13
06-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Yeah, becuase that week 1 game (his first ever as a Pro) where he caught 9 balls for 146 yds and a TD was absolute proof that he can not make it without Marshall.

One game doesn't mean anything in the NFL, especial that disaster in Oakland. Royal is good player but he is far from finish product. Marshall demands DC roll coverage to his side of the field, and Royal benefits from that.

honz
06-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Marshall was at the early camps learning the offense was he not? He has now chosen to rehab with his doctors in Orlando after the Broncos' doctors failed to fully diagnose his injury correctly. He'll be back for the mandatory camps and all will be fine.

OaklandRaider
06-07-2009, 09:13 AM
Yeah, becuase that week 1 game (his first ever as a Pro) where he caught 9 balls for 146 yds and a TD was absolute proof that he can not make it without Marshall.

Two words.

Deangelo Fall.

lex
06-07-2009, 09:49 AM
Hah. When they tried to trade Cutler they (the regime and people who supported it) used the idea that "its a business". But now, when a player holds out of more money, where is that same acknowledgment? Its hilarious when people talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 10:24 AM
Hah. When they tried to trade Cutler they (the regime and people who supported it) used the idea that "its a business". But now, when a player holds out of more money, where is that same acknowledgment? Its hilarious when people talk out of both sides of their mouth.

When jay got traded it was not about it being business as much as he was being a distraction and demanding a trade.

They have team they are trying to build and having anything take awy from that is wrong.
That said someone mentioned that players rehabing are not parcipating in the meeting that they are only with the trainers while at dove valley. If you believe that your beyond niave.
If they are smart and want to make this team they better be spending there quality time in meetings and on the sidelines eye balling what is going on. They can work with the trainers before or after meetings or field time. It is a job after all.

Sent via Blackberry.

Shazam!
06-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Hah. When they tried to trade Cutler they (the regime and people who supported it) used the idea that "its a business". But now, when a player holds out of more money, where is that same acknowledgment? Its hilarious when people talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Marshall has issues. Not just physical ones. Two totally different animals.

frauschieze
06-07-2009, 10:36 AM
When jay got traded it was not about it being business as much as he was being a distraction and demanding a trade.

They have team they are trying to build and having anything take awy from that is wrong.
That said someone mentioned that players rehabing are not parcipating in the meeting that they are only with the trainers while at dove valley. If you believe that your beyond niave.
If they are smart and want to make this team they better be spending there quality time in meetings and on the sidelines eye balling what is going on. They can work with the trainers before or after meetings or field time. It is a job after all.

Sent via Blackberry.

How can they do this if NO REHABBING PLAYER IS AT DOVE VALLEY??!! Out of the coach's own mouth. Maybe the smart thing would be for them to be there. I don't know. I've never played in the NFL. I've never been through training camp and voluntary workouts. Maybe the coach knows more than you do about what is normal. He's not concerned, then I'm not concerned.

T.K.O.
06-07-2009, 11:03 AM
How can they do this if NO REHABBING PLAYER IS AT DOVE VALLEY??!! Out of the coach's own mouth. Maybe the smart thing would be for them to be there. I don't know. I've never played in the NFL. I've never been through training camp and voluntary workouts. Maybe the coach knows more than you do about what is normal. He's not concerned, then I'm not concerned.

yep,just like when he said "jays our quarterback" no cause for concern.....kidding
i also believe a lesson was learned by both sides in the cutler drama,and it wont happen again.
once it is known for sure that marshall wont be suspende (which it isnt,he still has that other case ahead) and he's 90% or better from surgery i think pat will pony up (get it pony ) the needed $$$ to keep brandon a happy camper !

Elevation inc
06-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Marshall was at the early camps learning the offense was he not? He has now chosen to rehab with his doctors in Orlando after the Broncos' doctors failed to fully diagnose his injury correctly. He'll be back for the mandatory camps and all will be fine.

thank you for that


what JR and others dont realize, he spent most of the off-season and pre offseason workouts before passing camp working on the offense, he himself stated he was stoked about it.

Now he mentions a raise the right way in private and the DP writers get wind and go bonkers...now he leaves to rehab in orlando missing only a vouluntary passing camp where other injured players arent participating and he gets crucified

WTF is seriously a crime about missing a f'in mandatory passing camp, seriously the dude is pro bowl talent, orton just needs to put the ball in his hands.

Reading a freaking playbook in orlando is the same as a injured player still at dove valley reading the same playbbook.

Chemistry on the field with your qb doesnt stem from patting him on the ass and having lunch together in the same complex....

last year he rehabbed and was elite beginning of the year untill our retarded ass medical staff siad he was fine, turn out he need hip suregry.

i wouldnt f'in be in denver right now if i didnt have to either with that medical staff. whether this is about money or not....all you have to go on is speculatuion from DP writers...the same writers BTW that were wrong at every aspect of the jay cutler saga.....why the f should i trust them JR seriously......


seriously this is news when he misses mandatory camp, untill then its just a waste of space on broncos forums because it comes from a DP writer bored out of his mind, during a time when newspapapers are floundering.....

Nomad
06-07-2009, 11:41 AM
yep,just like when he said "jays our quarterback" no cause for concern.....kidding
i also believe a lesson was learned by both sides in the cutler drama,and it wont happen again.
once it is known for sure that marshall wont be suspende (which it isnt,he still has that other case ahead) and he's 90% or better from surgery i think pat will pony up (get it pony ) the needed $$$ to keep brandon a happy camper !

This is my POV as well. Why pay him now when some questions are still unanswered? Marshall still has 6-7 months before the NFL will have the cap issues. Marshall needs to get better (I'd rather see him in Colorado rehabbing), hit the field, prove he's still a great receiver and his skills haven't depreciated after the injuries, and he still has a court case to go through (if found guilty, league may suspend him). I don't blame the BRONCOS for being skeptical and with what Cutler did, I'm not surprised people are skeptical of Marshall as well.

Northman
06-07-2009, 11:52 AM
I'd agree with that.

Brandon Marshall really took a LOT of pressure off of Royal last season. If for some strange reason, you guys decide to get rid of Marshall, I would be surprise to see Eddie Royal put up numbers anything close to what he did last season.

I don't see Royal being a number one receiver in this league. I think he always be a very good number two option.


He did just fine against Oakland in week 1 and Brandon wasnt on the field.

lex
06-07-2009, 11:53 AM
Marshall has issues. Not just physical ones. Two totally different animals.

That really has little to do with my post.

Northman
06-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Two words.

Deangelo Fall.


So good you guys paid him 10 times what he is really worth.

lex
06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
When jay got traded it was not about it being business as much as he was being a distraction and demanding a trade.

They have team they are trying to build and having anything take awy from that is wrong.
That said someone mentioned that players rehabing are not parcipating in the meeting that they are only with the trainers while at dove valley. If you believe that your beyond niave.
If they are smart and want to make this team they better be spending there quality time in meetings and on the sidelines eye balling what is going on. They can work with the trainers before or after meetings or field time. It is a job after all.

Sent via Blackberry.

No need to resort to personal attacks.

Marshall produces. He has been a huge producer the past two seasons playing on a 4th round pick rookie contract. The guy has been steal all things considered. And how is Marshall taking his health into his own hands not congruant with whats also best for the team? And its not like you can really make a case for the teams doctors. Basically, with that in mind, your posturing codeword for he should be subjugated by the new regime.

topscribe
06-07-2009, 12:00 PM
I'd agree with that.

Brandon Marshall really took a LOT of pressure off of Royal last season. If for some strange reason, you guys decide to get rid of Marshall, I would be surprise to see Eddie Royal put up numbers anything close to what he did last season.

I don't see Royal being a number one receiver in this league. I think he always be a very good number two option.

Except for when Fast Eddie tore up the Raiders in the first game, Marshall wasn't there.

Remember that? :coffee:

-----

topscribe
06-07-2009, 12:05 PM
When jay got traded it was not about it being business as much as he was being a distraction and demanding a trade.

They have team they are trying to build and having anything take awy from that is wrong.
That said someone mentioned that players rehabing are not parcipating in the meeting that they are only with the trainers while at dove valley. If you believe that your beyond niave.
If they are smart and want to make this team they better be spending there quality time in meetings and on the sidelines eye balling what is going on. They can work with the trainers before or after meetings or field time. It is a job after all.

Sent via Blackberry.


No need to resort to personal attacks.

Marshall produces. He has been a huge producer the past two seasons playing on a 4th round pick rookie contract. The guy has been steal all things considered. And how is Marshall taking his health into his own hands not congruant with whats also best for the team? And its not like you can really make a case for the teams doctors. Basically, with that in mind, your posturing codeword for he should be subjugated by the new regime.

Didn't look like a personal attack to me.

Anyway, players must understand they are to be "subjugated" by the regime.
That is the employer-employee relationship. It's called "team."

-----

dogfish
06-07-2009, 12:23 PM
i say we cut him now, that'll show him a lesson!


who needs talent to win when you have "the patriot way?"

:coffee:

broncofanatic1987
06-07-2009, 12:24 PM
While it's too early to worry about Marshall being a holdout, it is suspicious that he decides to rehab in Orlando shortly after asking for more money. How is it that before he asked for more money the Broncos medical staff was good enough to manage his rehab and then all of a sudden he's better off in Orlando after asking for more money?

Hopefully his agent is smart enough to tell him that he better not holdout because it's not going to get him anywhere. He's facing prison time if he's convicted after his pending trial, a trial that his lawyer wants to have postponed until some time closer to the start of the season. I'm not going to speculate too much about what possible sentence he could receive, but they can't just assume that he will get probation, if he's convicted. That right there is enough reason to not give him a new contract now. People are completely nuts if they think he deserves a new contract now. You don't give a new contract to a player who is facing the possibility of imprisonment, that's just ridiculous.

If the NFL agrees to a new CBA, the Broncos can franchise tag Marshall next year. If they don't agree to a new CBA, Marshall will be a RFA next year and the Broncos won't have to pay as much and would get very good compensation for Marshall if a team signs him to an offer they don't want to match. They have ways of holding on to him while giving him a chance to prove he deserves a long term commitment. They don't have to feel pressured to get it done now.

Northman
06-07-2009, 12:25 PM
i say we cut him now, that'll show him a lesson!


who needs talent to win when you have "the patriot way?"

:coffee:


To be fair they have 3 SB trophies to show for it. :confused:

lex
06-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Didn't look like a personal attack to me.

Anyway, players must understand they are to be "subjugated" by the regime.
That is the employer-employee relationship. It's called "team."

-----

"If you believe _______, youre naive" isnt a personal attack? LOL. Why does it not surprise me that you say this.

And regarding your second part, its funny when people try to make real world analogies that dont apply and try to pretend that players have no leverage. The players are the end product as much as anything. They are inventory as much as they are employees.

elsid13
06-07-2009, 01:02 PM
To be fair they have 3 SB trophies to show for it. :confused:

To be fair the PATS also had player practicing with the team when they were on IR. Which is against the rules in NFL.

silkamilkamonico
06-07-2009, 01:09 PM
Royal's going to be a better WR than Marshall in 2 years, IMHO. He's virtually better in every receiving category other than physical size, and arguably rac, which Marshall wasn't exactly great at last year. Not only does Royal; have better hands than Marshall, he also runs better routes, is more explosive in and out of his breaks, and is better at attacking the ball in the air.

Northman
06-07-2009, 01:15 PM
To be fair the PATS also had player practicing with the team when they were on IR. Which is against the rules in NFL.

Every team cuts corners somewhere even the Broncos.

elsid13
06-07-2009, 01:20 PM
Every team cuts corners somewhere even the Broncos.

There is working in the grey and there is breaking the rules. The PATS seem to breaking the rules more then any team in recent years.

Northman
06-07-2009, 01:23 PM
There is working in the grey and there is breaking the rules. The PATS seem to breaking the rules more then any team in recent years.

I doubt it. They just happened to get caught.

topscribe
06-07-2009, 01:36 PM
"If you believe _______, youre naive" isnt a personal attack? LOL. Why does it not surprise me that you say this.

And regarding your second part, its funny when people try to make real world analogies that dont apply and try to pretend that players have no leverage. The players are the end product as much as anything. They are inventory as much as they are employees.

If JR's comment was a personal attack, then that makes this response of
yours one, too. :coffee:

And if players are inventory, then what does a business do with inventory?
That's right: they buy and sell inventory. Fact is, those players would not even
be there as the "end product" if the owners were not there first with their
money, when many of those players were playing sandlot ball and deciding
whether to join a gang so they could have something in life, per their view.

The owners are employers. The players are employees. That is the way it is.
When a player tries to alter that, they upset that balance, and you no longer
have a "team." Championships are won by teams, not stars. Anybody who has
been in the "real world" for long knows this. That is what JR meant by "naive."

-----

broncfn90
06-07-2009, 01:58 PM
Well like last time i will sit and wait before i start taking shots

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 02:50 PM
thank you for that


what JR and others don't realize, he spent most of the off-season and pre off season workouts before passing camp working on the offense, he himself stated he was stoked about it.

Now he mentions a raise the right way in private and the DP writers get wind and go bonkers...now he leaves to rehab in Orlando missing only a voluntary passing camp where other injured players aren't participating and he gets crucified

WTF is seriously a crime about missing a f'in mandatory passing camp, seriously the dude is pro bowl talent, Orton just needs to put the ball in his hands.

Reading a freaking playbook in Orlando is the same as a injured player still at dove valley reading the same playbook.

Chemistry on the field with your QB doesn't stem from patting him on the ass and having lunch together in the same complex....

last year he rehabbed and was elite beginning of the year until our retarded ass medical staff said he was fine, turn out he need hip surgery.

i wouldn't f'in be in denver right now if i didn't have to either with that medical staff. whether this is about money or not....all you have to go on is speculation from DP writers...the same writers BTW that were wrong at every aspect of the jay cutler saga.....why the f should i trust them JR seriously......


seriously this is news when he misses mandatory camp, until then its just a waste of space on broncos forums because it comes from a DP writer bored out of his mind, during a time when newspapers are floundering.....



well those folks as moronic as they maybe probably have a better insight to what is going on than YOU do..

as for him being at the earlier camp where was he rehabbing then?

who much of the new crossing patterns did he learn? all of them he is picking it all up from a book? we all know that doing home work is great but practical classroom learning is the best.. being part of the TEAM asking questions and listening to answers that someone else thought to ask the question about..

just as jay was doing he is taking bad advise from his agent.. setting out any camps are beyond dumb especially when you have a new scheme and new coaches to teach them..

the reporter in this case hit this one out of the park when you take off the tinted glasses and allow your emotions to die down you will see how wrong you are..

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by elsid13
To be fair the PATS also had player practicing with the team when they were on IR. Which is against the rules in NFL.

I'm pretty sure they are the only team that has been caught doing it..

I also suspect it was the players that wanted to practice ands it was not mandated..

MOST TEAM Mates want to be part of the TEAM.. not segregated from the team..


Every team cuts corners somewhere even the Broncos.

Your correct I'll bet that mikey cut his fair share of them, IIRC he got caught cheating on salary cap at one time.. claimed it was an accounting error.. ahahahahahaha

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 03:11 PM
Well like last time i will sit and wait before i start taking shots

no real shots have been taken yet.. I am just ramping up for the I told you sos..


Actually if you take a dispassionate look at it all the pieces fall into place..

we have a gifted WR that:


is beyond immature..

has a questionable past and friends..

has been in more scrapes with the law

has visited emergency rooms with regularity

not even sure he has full functionality of his hand and arm yet..

has his own personal ID card for the NFL offices..

is taking bad advice from a leach..

broke up with one girl and got engaged and had the same issue minutes later..




the question is he worth having around.. or is he a ticking time bomb..

is he worth a big contract or should they wait it out to answer some of the above question marks...

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 03:22 PM
How about we just merge all the Marshall bashing threads into one big piss-fest so it doesn't need to take up the bulk of the Broncos Talk forum? One section for the "one problem" we all can't seem to agree on. Seriously. This vendetta shit is getting old.

(A) No injured players rehabbing at are Dove Valley
(B) Brandon has stated it outright that he is not holding out
(C) Add A and B together; use your brain and think and you get
(D) Stop making a mountain out of a molehill

JFC.

MasterShake
06-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Good read, and I agree with a lot of what the article has to say. I was thinking about this earlier today actually that if we were going to make this kind of change, it has to be done whole heartedly. Shannahan claimed to be a class organization, then he picks up people like Maurice Clarett and others and loses all credibility.

As much as I'm going to miss Cutler, in order to move forward we need unselfish players. Orton and Simms are fighting for their careers, and I'd rather have them then someone who assumes 4,000 yds and a strong arm buys you respect. Playoff wins buy you respect, and Super Bowl wins cement that respect.

I'm not thinking the Broncos are going to have a dream season this year, but I do expect them to surprise everyone except themselves. Thats the marker of a good football team, and I can't wait to see our new team this fall!

We have a team of people that seem to understand that you need to prove yourself on the field (Dawkins, Eddie Royal, etc.) and an exciting rookie in Moreno and a 3-4 defense. Most seasons I'd listen to Mike Shanahan and believe that we were just "one player" away from a Super Bowl. Well, we all know that one player doesn't mean jack without chemistry and heart. If Marshall doesn't want to be a part of that he can go.

Give me a "team" any day of the week. The last time we had anything close was the 2005 season where we went 13-3 with a bunch of nobodies an a QB who didn't have nearly the skill set of Cutler but managed to win games. They played for each other, not stats, and good things happened. I'll give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt until December, but in the meantime I'm still excited (probably more than I have been in a while) for the NEW season! :salute:

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 03:31 PM
Royal's going to be a better WR than Marshall in 2 years, IMHO. He's virtually better in every receiving category other than physical size, and arguably rac, which Marshall wasn't exactly great at last year. Not only does Royal; have better hands than Marshall, he also runs better routes, is more explosive in and out of his breaks, and is better at attacking the ball in the air.

I'm in agreement here that Royal will end up becoming a better receiver than Marshall; but I think it's imperative that we extend Marshall so we can have two solid receivers for the long haul in Denver. They work off of eachother. Eventually, both will demand over-the-top attention (if they don't already) and will be a fit for any defensive backfield looking to play them down. This will also open up alot of the hitch routes and other intermediate gameplay for our tight ends; and if McKinley (I'm stoked about) can develop -- we'll have something really special.

Eddie Royal will be a great player in this league without Brandon Marshall, but I truly believe he can be exceptional with him on the team. Having those guys on the field just opens up so much for one another. I'd hate to see that pissed away.

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 03:36 PM
Good read, and I agree with a lot of what the article has to say. I was thinking about this earlier today actually that if we were going to make this kind of change, it has to be done whole heartedly. Shannahan claimed to be a class organization, then he picks up people like Maurice Clarett and others and loses all credibility.

As much as I'm going to miss Cutler, in order to move forward we need unselfish players. Orton and Simms are fighting for their careers, and I'd rather have them then someone who assumes 4,000 yds and a strong arm buys you respect. Playoff wins buy you respect, and Super Bowl wins cement that respect.

I'm not thinking the Broncos are going to have a dream season this year, but I do expect them to surprise everyone except themselves. Thats the marker of a good football team, and I can't wait to see our new team this fall!

We have a team of people that seem to understand that you need to prove yourself on the field (Dawkins, Eddie Royal, etc.) and an exciting rookie in Moreno and a 3-4 defense. Most seasons I'd listen to Mike Shanahan and believe that we were just "one player" away from a Super Bowl. Well, we all know that one player doesn't mean jack without chemistry and heart. If Marshall doesn't want to be a part of that he can go.

Give me a "team" any day of the week. The last time we had anything close was the 2005 season where we went 13-3 with a bunch of nobodies an a QB who didn't have nearly the skill set of Cutler but managed to win games. They played for each other, not stats, and good things happened. I'll give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt until December, but in the meantime I'm still excited (probably more than I have been in a while) for the NEW season! :salute:


best post of the day.. great job..

the TEAMS win

PIT whooped our ass in 2005 they were playing for a reason as a team.. to get the Bus to Detroit..

NE has some stars but they are not full of themselves and they win consistently.

their stars have been more or less homegrown.. and they have not forgotten there roots..

Yes sometimes star teams win but they fail to be consistent you need only to look at NYG and RAMs as prime examples..

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm in agreement here that Royal will end up becoming a better receiver than Marshall; but I think it's imperative that we extend Marshall so we can have two solid receivers for the long haul in Denver. They work off of eachother. Eventually, both will demand over-the-top attention (if they don't already) and will be a fit for any defensive backfield looking to play them down. This will also open up alot of the hitch routes and other intermediate gameplay for our tight ends; and if McKinley (I'm stoked about) can develop -- we'll have something really special.

Eddie Royal will be a great player in this league without Brandon Marshall, but I truly believe he can be exceptional with him on the team. Having those guys on the field just opens up so much for one another. I'd hate to see that pissed away.


but the one doing the pissing right now is marshall.. no one else to blame but him if he leaves..

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 03:45 PM
but the one doing the pissing right now is marshall.. no one else to blame but him if he leaves..

What pissing? He is seeing a specialist for rehab back in Florida because he his hip injury was misdiagnosed and treated poorly by the medical staff in Denver. It isn't an uncommon phenomena either, it has been happening for the past five years here at a ridiculous level. The same medical staff who through Trevor Pryce back on the field with lower lumbar concerns, Al Wilson with head/neck concerns, and a medical staff who thought that Paul T., Darius W., and Willie M. were medically clean when it is apparent that their injuries (pre-existing) are the reasons why they were out of the NFL in a short amount of time. Given our poor rehab and conditioning with leg injuries last year and the aforesaid, I can see why Brandon opted to seek a professionalist in his injured area.

Marshall in his interviews on DB show a real excitement for Josh McDaniels and what he wants to do here in Denver. He has stated his eagerness to get on the field and play, and is studying the playbook rigorously so he can be in the flow mentally as he continues to rehab physically.

I don't know what is so hard to grasp about NO PLAYERS REHABBING ARE AT PASSING CAMP and HE STATED HE IS NOT A HOLD OUT.

If he was not attending a mandatory camp, it would be a completely different story. McDaniels has stated the aforesaid about rehabbing players not being there or participating. I'll take his word for it on that and not the assumptions of posters just looking for reasons to get down on a player.

This year, Brandon Marshall. Last year, Ryan Clady for playing at Boise State. 2006, Elvis Dumervil for being 5'11. What's next? Ryan Harris for being a Muslim with errant concerns arising that fasting might hurt his ability to keep weight and have a good playing strength?

Good grief.

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:01 PM
What pissing? He is seeing a specialist for rehab back in Florida because he his hip injury was misdiagnosed and treated poorly by the medical staff in Denver. It isn't an uncommon phenomena either, it has been happening for the past five years here at a ridiculous level. The same medical staff who through Trevor Pryce back on the field with lower lumbar concerns, Al Wilson with head/neck concerns, and a medical staff who thought that Paul T., Darius W., and Willie M. were medically clean when it is apparent that their injuries (pre-existing) are the reasons why they were out of the NFL in a short amount of time. Given our poor rehab and conditioning with leg injuries last year and the aforesaid, I can see why Brandon opted to seek a professionalist in his injured area.

Marshall in his interviews on DB show a real excitement for Josh McDaniels and what he wants to do here in Denver. He has stated his eagerness to get on the field and play, and is studying the playbook rigorously so he can be in the flow mentally as he continues to rehab physically.

I don't know what is so hard to grasp about NO PLAYERS REHABBING ARE AT PASSING CAMP and HE STATED HE IS NOT A HOLD OUT.

If he was not attending a mandatory camp, it would be a completely different story. McDaniels has stated the aforesaid about rehabbing players not being there or participating. I'll take his word for it on that and not the assumptions of posters just looking for reasons to get down on a player.

This year, Brandon Marshall. Last year, Ryan Clady for playing at Boise State. 2006, Elvis Dumervil for being 5'11. What's next? Ryan Harris for being a Muslim with errant concerns arising that fasting might hurt his ability to keep weight and have a good playing strength?

Good grief.


Do you know for a fact that those that are rehabbing are not at the camp?

besides asking for a raise before deciding he would not attend the camp while announcing to the world he is not holding out what else do you have..

If you do send me a link.. if not then stop spouting crap you can't back up..

if you do not think my posts have any merit then ignore them.. dream it is real simple concept...

BroncoWave
06-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Do you know for a fact that those that are rehabbing are not at the camp?

besides asking for a raise before deciding he would not attend the camp while announcing to the world he is not holding out what else do you have..

If you do send me a link.. if not then stop spouting crap you can't back up..

if you do not think my posts have any merit then ignore them.. dream it is real simple concept...

:lol::lol::lol: you should take your own advice. You're the one sitting here trying to accuse him of holding out based on the assumption of one DP writer. Just admit it, Marshall is your new whipping boy and you are out to get him no matter what. You will take any little snippet from anywhere and use it to hang him so don't spew that crap asking those who are defending him to back their stuff up when you haven't given any solid evidence to back up a single thing you are saying.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Do you know for a fact that those that are rehabbing are not at the camp?

McDaniels said on DenverBroncos.com in his video interview that players who are rehabbing from injury are not required to be at camp.


besides asking for a raise before deciding he would not attend the camp while announcing to the world he is not holding out what else do you have.

What we have here is a poorly structured sentence. I have no idea what the Hell you are saying.


If you do send me a link.. if not then stop spouting crap you can't back up..

It is a video on DenverBroncos.com from a camp presser. I'll leave it up to you and your internet skills to navigate your way in that direction and find it. Godspeed, JR!


if you do not think my posts have any merit then ignore them.. dream it is real simple concept...

Believe me, I try -- but I'm not allowed to "ignore" moderators. Unfortunately, that is what my User CP tells me. Shoot dang!

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 04:08 PM
:lol::lol::lol: you should take your own advice. You're the one sitting here trying to accuse him of holding out based on the assumption of one DP writer. Just admit it, Marshall is your new whipping boy and you are out to get him no matter what. You will take any little snippet from anywhere and use it to hang him so don't spew that crap asking those who are defending him to back their stuff up when you haven't given any solid evidence to back up a single thing you are saying.

This shit is about as stupid as him trying to say Ryan Clady sucked and was a poor selection because he played at Boise State. Depsite the fact that playing at Boise State held no bearing on his physical prowess, and ability to understand and read blocking assignments on whiteboards and on tape. I don't think you want to know how far the rabbit hole of hypocrisy goes in this regard; but since you are a seasoned forum veteran -- I'm sure you can pretty well guess.

Denver Native (Carol)
06-07-2009, 04:14 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_12510986?source=rss

McDaniels said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Carol, thank you so much for finding the direct quote.

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:47 PM
McDaniels said on DenverBroncos.com in his video interview that players who are rehabbing from injury are not required to be at camp.



What we have here is a poorly structured sentence. I have no idea what the Hell you are saying.



It is a video on DenverBroncos.com from a camp presser. I'll leave it up to you and your internet skills to navigate your way in that direction and find it. Godspeed, JR!



Believe me, I try -- but I'm not allowed to "ignore" moderators. Unfortunately, that is what my User CP tells me. Shoot dang!





as for Josh's comments they said Marshall would not participate in the practices nor is a policy that anyone rehabbing would do so..

it did not say he or any others were not able to participate in the meetings or be on the field to WATCH as their peers are coached..


most normal folks can read be tween the lines, I assume you as a college student can't..

Last but not least you do no have to reply to any of my post nor that of ANY other moderator for that matter you do not have to read my posts so you can get off that kick right now, You choose to read them..

I do seem to remember you as one of the selling Nazis from the old mania also..

again if you find my post to hard to read and comprehend DON'T.. they are not required reading only MOd's PM'S are..

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:53 PM
:lol::lol::lol: you should take your own advice. You're the one sitting here trying to accuse him of holding out based on the assumption of one DP writer. Just admit it, Marshall is your new whipping boy and you are out to get him no matter what. You will take any little snippet from anywhere and use it to hang him so don't spew that crap asking those who are defending him to back their stuff up when you haven't given any solid evidence to back up a single thing you are saying.


No I've have been saying it for along time the DP reporter just noticed..

I'm not out to get the guy at all, if he wants to be part of this TEAM all he has to do it prove it.. I think the guy has a lot of talent and would hate to lose him IF he wants to be part of the TEAM.. so far he is putting himself before the team..

PLEASE do not give me the crap that he is rehabbing in FL and that Colorado rehab places are lousy.. Because we all know that Colorado is the home of his surgeon and there are plenty of rehab places here in town if he so chose to do so..

Plus when he was in DEN for meetings and the other mandatory camps where did he rehab? and where will he do it next week and during TC.. shuttle back and forth to FLA daily..

wake up folks and smell the crap emanating from the Marshall camp..

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 04:56 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_12510986?source=rss

McDaniels said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."

thanks for the quote but really look at what he was saying.. when he was talking to the reporters he was gesturing to the practice field on which he was standing..

he was referring to being on the field practicing that is all.. not meaning that they are not in meetings.. or rehabbing in the facility.. or in DEN for taht matter....

Requiem / The Dagda
06-07-2009, 05:06 PM
as for Josh's comments they said Marshall would not participate in the practices nor is a policy that anyone rehabbing would do so.. it did not say he or any others were not able to participate in the meetings or be on the field to WATCH as their peers are coached..

They are not required to be there at all. He isn't talking about just practices. Josh seems to be perfectly fine with Brandon rehabbing in Florida. Oh, and just for context: He's back near home in Florida as well. Probably another reason why he is down there too. Family and all. (Not to mention the great specialists in the area, and sports training facilities.)


most normal folks can read be tween the lines, I assume you as a college student can't..

There is no reading between the lines here. You are twisting McDaniels' statements so they fit your own thoughts on Brandon Marshall. The statement is not exclusive to just practices, but the requirement to be there at all. Give it up. And seriously, if you are going to PM me about what others think of me, and you go and try and insult me for being in college -- please, do piss off. :smile:


Last but not least you do no have to reply to any of my post nor that of ANY other moderator for that matter you do not have to read my posts so you can get off that kick right now, You choose to read them..

Yep, I know -- I was just stating I couldn't place you on ignore. I wish I could. I really, really wish I could.


I do seem to remember you as one of the selling Nazis from the old mania also..

Sieg Heil, baby.


again if you find my post to hard to read and comprehend DON'T.. they are not required reading only MOd's PM'S are..

Well, I'm glad we are in agreement that your posts are a waste of my time and others!

dogfish
06-07-2009, 05:46 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_12510986?source=rss

McDaniels said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."


as for Josh's comments they said Marshall would not participate in the practices nor is a policy that anyone rehabbing would do so..

it did not say he or any others were not able to participate in the meetings or be on the field to WATCH as their peers are coached..





He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said.

does "everything" mean something different to you than it does to the rest of us?

:noidea:


eve⋅ry⋅thing  /ˈɛvriˌθɪŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ev-ree-thing] Show IPA
–pronoun 1. every thing or particular of an aggregate or total; all.
2. something extremely important: This news means everything to us.

–noun 3. something that is extremely or most important: Money is his everything.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; ME; see every, thing 1

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/everything


maybe you think we shouldn't take doogie's word for it, since to this point he hasn't let it bother him when players who are supposed to be there aren't? wait, that's not going to work-- he traded the most important player on the team when he wouldn't report. . . .

in all honesty, you may very well be rright that marshall wants a new contract-- it's the NFL, who DOESN'T? he knows he's a rising star, he knows that he's far outperformed his rookie deal and isn't getting paid anywhere near what other guys playing at his level are bringing in-- of course he wants more money. . . that's just the nature of the game. . . i told people after his first game last year that i expected him to hold out for more cash after the season was done-- it's not like it's some big surprise if he does. . .

however, he hasn't to this point, and he's not right now. . . does that mean that he won't? nope-- he still may. . . but you're trying to say that he is at the moment, and it's simply not true. . . doogie shipped off the face of the franchise, i don't think he'd have a problem with telling marshall to get his ass back to denver if he had any sort of problem with him not being here. . . .

in the end, brandon can do whatever he likes, but he doesn't have a ton of leverage. . . this team isn't going anywhere with him this year anyways, what does it matter if he doesn't show up? we win four games instead of five or six? oh well. . . . marshall is still under contract, is coming off an injury and is in precarious standing with both the law and the league-- if a new CBA isn't reached he'll be a restricted free agent next year, and if it is reached we always have the option of franchising him. . . the team does stand to benefit from extending him now if he's willing to accept a somewhat below-market deal in light of the factors i just mentioned, but otherwise they really have no overwhelming incentive to get a deal done at this juncture. . . besides, doogie has already proven conclusively that he's arrogant enough to believe that his system is more important that any individual talent-- if he wasn't willing to accomodate cutler, why should he do so for marshall? brandon can agitate for a new deal, even hold out if he wants, but at the end of the day he isn't holding very many cards. . .

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 06:10 PM
does "everything" mean something different to you than it does to the rest of us?

:noidea:


everything [ev-ree-thing] Show IPA
–pronoun 1. every thing or particular of an aggregate or total; all.
2. something extremely important: This news means everything to us.

–noun 3. something that is extremely or most important: Money is his everything.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; ME; see every, thing 1

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/everything


maybe you think we shouldn't take doogie's word for it, since to this point he hasn't let it bother him when players who are supposed to be there aren't? wait, that's not going to work-- he traded the most important player on the team when he wouldn't report. . . .

in all honesty, you may very well be rright that marshall wants a new contract-- it's the NFL, who DOESN'T? he knows he's a rising star, he knows that he's far outperformed his rookie deal and isn't getting paid anywhere near what other guys playing at his level are bringing in-- of course he wants more money. . . that's just the nature of the game. . . i told people after his first game last year that i expected him to hold out for more cash after the season was done-- it's not like it's some big surprise if he does. . .

however, he hasn't to this point, and he's not right now. . . does that mean that he won't? nope-- he still may. . . but you're trying to say that he is at the moment, and it's simply not true. . . doogie shipped off the face of the franchise, i don't think he'd have a problem with telling marshall to get his ass back to denver if he had any sort of problem with him not being here. . . .

in the end, brandon can do whatever he likes, but he doesn't have a ton of leverage. . . this team isn't going anywhere with him this year anyways, what does it matter if he doesn't show up? we win four games instead of five or six? oh well. . . . marshall is still under contract, is coming off an injury and is in precarious standing with both the law and the league-- if a new CBA isn't reached he'll be a restricted free agent next year, and if it is reached we always have the option of franchising him. . . the team does stand to benefit from extending him now if he's willing to accept a somewhat below-market deal in light of the factors i just mentioned, but otherwise they really have no overwhelming incentive to get a deal done at this juncture. . . besides, doogie has already proven conclusively that he's arrogant enough to believe that his system is more important that any individual talent-- if he wasn't willing to accomodate cutler, why should he do so for marshall? brandon can agitate for a new deal, even hold out if he wants, but at the end of the day he isn't holding very many cards. . .

the last part of your post was excellent Marshall can't see th forest for the trees and his like jay not getting very good advise from his agent he has very few cards to play..

Lets say that they do indeed sign a CBA before now and the 2010 season that makes him a UFA ,but if the moron is not or has not had a great season and that is likely if he does not get thrown to because he does not know his routes all that does is cost him MONEY with his next contract.. may not be much a few mil here and there but what the heck it is only money right..

sounds to me like he is pressing for a new contract because either he does not see the CBA happening (neither do I) or he is still having issues with that hand and another year of dropped passes is gonna cut down on the money anyway..

this is his quote..

http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_12510986?source=rss

McDaniel's said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniel's said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."

read it carefully while you see "he is doing everything he's is supposed to be doing" your also reading nice speak but not seeing it as Josh is trying to make nice with him..

I read it he is doing only the absolute that he as to, to get by and I'd really like to have him here learning the complex scheme we are installing and while he can learn some of it in TC everyone else will be ahead of him in doing so so he will be slowing down the rest of the team...

that is what the article is also saying.. He needs to be with his teammates building on his knowledge of the game plan with them..


ON that I will stop trying the educate the masses..

BroncoWave
06-07-2009, 06:19 PM
JR when he shows up to training camp holdout-free will you please drop this shit?

All you are doing is twisting quotes to fit your narrow views of Marshall instead of, god forbid, taking people at their word.

Northman
06-07-2009, 07:05 PM
I'm pretty sure they are the only team that has been caught doing it..

I also suspect it was the players that wanted to practice ands it was not mandated..

MOST TEAM Mates want to be part of the TEAM.. not segregated from the team..



Your correct I'll bet that mikey cut his fair share of them, IIRC he got caught cheating on salary cap at one time.. claimed it was an accounting error.. ahahahahahaha


Add in the vaseline on the Olines arms at K.C the same year. Yea, he got caught and its all good but every team does it to try and get the edge on another.

broncohead
06-07-2009, 07:46 PM
JR when he shows up to training camp holdout-free will you please drop this shit?

All you are doing is twisting quotes to fit your narrow views of Marshall instead of, god forbid, taking people at their word.

It's getting a little old isn't it?

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 08:51 PM
Add in the vaseline on the Olines arms at K.C the same year. Yea, he got caught and its all good but every team does it to try and get the edge on another.

I also seem to remember the oline coach ordering the jerseys about 4 sizes to small so they were skin tight and then sprayed them with teflon. So the DEs could not grab them at all.

honz
06-07-2009, 09:18 PM
Dear lord. :tsk:

Lonestar
06-07-2009, 09:31 PM
JR when he shows up to training camp holdout-free will you please drop this shit?

All you are doing is twisting quotes to fit your narrow views of Marshall instead of, god forbid, taking people at their word.



When he does not hold out this year he will be my BBF..

But I do not think I have to worry about that.. the money involved in this is just to big for him not to holdout.. Unless of course they settle on a heavily incentivized contract ..

I'm not twist quotes at all just reading their correct meaning.. Y'all are not seeing the subtle meanings that are being talked about..


BTW what are you willing to do IF he does hold out?..

BroncoWave
06-07-2009, 09:59 PM
When he does not hold out this year he will be my BBF..

But I do not think I have to worry about that.. the money involved in this is just to big for him not to holdout.. Unless of course they settle on a heavily incentivized contract ..

I'm not twist quotes at all just reading their correct meaning.. Y'all are not seeing the subtle meanings that are being talked about..


BTW what are you willing to do IF he does hold out?..

This is such a load of crap. You are giving YOUR interpretation on the quotes.

To say that your interpretations of the quotes is 100% fact is utter arrogance.

You better hope you are right because you are going to look mighty stupid if you turn out to be wrong; and your claims of having exact knowledge of the subtle meanings of people's quotes will be exposed.

rcsodak
06-07-2009, 11:40 PM
While it's too early to worry about Marshall being a holdout, it is suspicious that he decides to rehab in Orlando shortly after asking for more money. How is it that before he asked for more money the Broncos medical staff was good enough to manage his rehab and then all of a sudden he's better off in Orlando after asking for more money?

Hopefully his agent is smart enough to tell him that he better not holdout because it's not going to get him anywhere. He's facing prison time if he's convicted after his pending trial, a trial that his lawyer wants to have postponed until some time closer to the start of the season. I'm not going to speculate too much about what possible sentence he could receive, but they can't just assume that he will get probation, if he's convicted. That right there is enough reason to not give him a new contract now. People are completely nuts if they think he deserves a new contract now. You don't give a new contract to a player who is facing the possibility of imprisonment, that's just ridiculous.

If the NFL agrees to a new CBA, the Broncos can franchise tag Marshall next year. If they don't agree to a new CBA, Marshall will be a RFA next year and the Broncos won't have to pay as much and would get very good compensation for Marshall if a team signs him to an offer they don't want to match. They have ways of holding on to him while giving him a chance to prove he deserves a long term commitment. They don't have to feel pressured to get it done now.

If they don't agree to a new CBA, BMarsh can still be franchised! They'll have 3 available.

I haven't read/heard what kind of sentence he could receive, on his impending trial. Where'd you hear he could do time?

dogfish
06-08-2009, 12:00 AM
If they don't agree to a new CBA, BMarsh can still be franchised! They'll have 3 available.




it might be theoretically possible, but it's not likely-- if they don't sign the CBA, he'll be a restricted free agent, and the highest tender is a LOT cheaper than the franchise tag. . . . probably at least five million bucks cheaper, if not more. . . i suppose they COULD franchise him if they're really scared that somebody would sign him to an offer sheet as an RFA, but at this point i'd probably take a 1st and a 3rd for him and call it a good deal, given his various issues. . . .

Lonestar
06-08-2009, 02:18 AM
This is such a load of crap. You are giving YOUR interpretation on the quotes.

To say that your interpretations of the quotes is 100% fact is utter arrogance.

You better hope you are right because you are going to look mighty stupid if you turn out to be wrong; and your claims of having exact knowledge of the subtle meanings of people's quotes will be exposed.

They may be exposed buy rarely have they on existing players.. called it on delta, middlebroken, ashley, foster. and last but not least TATER.. what a maroon.. stealing luggage, after he was cut by the worst team in the league.... double maroon..

missed on the draft for Clady who exceeded EVERYONES projection and partially on DOOM who is a one trick pony that most likely will not earn a second contract with DEN.. I thought being short and playing DE he would get eaten alive by the NFL OT's I was wrong but he is ONLY as pass rush specialist.. much like Hayward was..

also have to say I did not see Royal being the breakout WR he was.. I saw him as Stokely replacement and still may be in the near future if we can find another BIGGER WR to take his or BM's spot..

Now for being wrong I do not think so but I could be, I hope I am but this smells of hold out and disgruntled WR for the next 3 years as a RFA..

BY the way I don not think I was i said "that your interpretations of the quotes is 100% fact" I said that is how is see them. And think that others have misinterpreted/misread them..

Anyway sleep well fair prince..

Lonestar
06-08-2009, 02:21 AM
it might be theoretically possible, but it's not likely-- if they don't sign the CBA, he'll be a restricted free agent, and the highest tender is a LOT cheaper than the franchise tag. . . . probably at least five million bucks cheaper, if not more. . . i suppose they COULD franchise him if they're really scared that somebody would sign him to an offer sheet as an RFA, but at this point i'd probably take a 1st and a 3rd for him and call it a good deal, given his various issues. . . .



I would take a 1st and 3rd in a heart beat for this potential **** up..:salute: he is not on Goodells good side..:D

I heard he already has his own NFL league office vistors ID he gets to use it so much..;)

Elevation inc
06-08-2009, 02:21 AM
well those folks as moronic as they maybe probably have a better insight to what is going on than YOU do..
as for him being at the earlier camp where was he rehabbing then?

who much of the new crossing patterns did he learn? all of them he is picking it all up from a book? we all know that doing home work is great but practical classroom learning is the best.. being part of the TEAM asking questions and listening to answers that someone else thought to ask the question about..

just as jay was doing he is taking bad advise from his agent.. setting out any camps are beyond dumb especially when you have a new scheme and new coaches to teach them..

the reporter in this case hit this one out of the park when you take off the tinted glasses and allow your emotions to die down you will see how wrong you are..


your right they probally usually do, but currently, its speculation, not fact, and i like to make informed opionions based on fact not speculation, and as i stated he is rehabbing in orlando to help his hip, not make at play at money, now he misses mandatory minicamp and i will be right there with ya saying he is being a fool....but that hasnt happened yet.

instead what happened was some lame ass Dp writer is bored and looking for an angle about a guy rehabbing a serious possibly career ending hip injury, with probally the best people in the US qualified to do so in orlando. and he misses a voluntary camp, otehr injured players didnt participate in and now he is the bad guy.....????

lets talk when marshall actually holdsout, then its news worthy and can be debated, as i stated earlier right now this topic is just wasting everyones time...

Elevation inc
06-08-2009, 02:27 AM
When he does not hold out this year he will be my BBF..

But I do not think I have to worry about that.. the money involved in this is just to big for him not to holdout.. Unless of course they settle on a heavily incentivized contract ..

I'm not twist quotes at all just reading their correct meaning.. Y'all are not seeing the subtle meanings that are being talked about..


BTW what are you willing to do IF he does hold out?..


if he holds out officially and misses mandatory meetings then its his own stupid fault, we have a team here and goals to win games, if brandon feels holding out is the best way to go in light of his legal troubles then he really is being stupid.

however he hasnt missed anything mandatory this year, and was in fact and most of the offseason work before this Voluntary passing camp.

if brandon doesnt show up to minicamp and holds out i would wager most defending him right now would be pretty upset. and not back him anymore.

i personally wait for factual eveidence to make decisions not opinionated specualtion

Lonestar
06-08-2009, 02:29 AM
your right they probally usually do, but currently, its speculation, not fact, and i like to make informed opionions based on fact not speculation, and as i stated he is rehabbing in orlando to help his hip, not make at play at money, now he misses mandatory minicamp and i will be right there with ya saying he is being a fool....but that hasnt happened yet.

instead what happened was some lame ass Dp writer is bored and looking for an angle about a guy rehabbing a serious possibly career ending hip injury, with probally the best people in the US qualified to do so in orlando. and he misses a voluntary camp, otehr injured players didnt participate in and now he is the bad guy.....????

lets talk when marshall actually holdsout, then its news worthy and can be debated, as i stated earlier right now this topic is just wasting everyones time...


everyone keeps spinning that none of the other players are rehabbing in DEN, where is everyone getting this.. and is everyone absolutely sure they are not attending meetings and learning the playbooks watching folks from the sidelines..

I have asked for a quote or link that shows this to be true.. so far no one can show it to me.. if they can then I'll hold off till he fails to show up for mandatory camps or training camp..

I believe I saw a presser where Josh discussed those other players and getting updates on their progress from the training staff.. but then maybe I'm wrong and everyone is 100% right..

Elevation inc
06-08-2009, 02:39 AM
everyone keeps spinning that none of the other players are rehabbing in DEN, where is everyone getting this.. and is everyone absolutely sure they are not attending meetings and learning the playbooks watching folks from the sidelines..

I have asked for a quote or link that shows this to be true.. so far no one can show it to me.. if they can then I'll hold off till he fails to show up for mandatory camps or training camp..

I believe I saw a presser where Josh discussed those other players and getting updates on their progress from the training staff.. but then maybe I'm wrong and everyone is 100% right..

i didnt spin that i stated none of them are participating in the passing camp. i never said they were or werent in denver. i stated that a injured player reading the playbook in denver is not different than marshall reading in orlando.....each is a case by case injury, not for you or i decide reasons or validity....

marshall has a hip problem, torain for instance has a knee problem, maybe torain likes his doctors in denver, and marshall likes his hip doctor in orlando.

its not hard to be objective here...i will not back marshall if he misses minicamp.....but that hasnt happened yet, so i still back marshall...see where i am going....i stay the factual line....when the facts change so will my opinion....

Nomad
06-08-2009, 07:03 AM
If I was Xanders I'd have talks with Marshall and his agents. I'd give them an offer on a new contract (which what he would be asking)with character and behavior stips and incentatives for his play on the field and pro bowl etc. But I would not give him the new contract until mid season because the BRONCOS want to make sure his injuries (hand and hip) hasn't depleted his skills on the field. What's the harm in wanting to see the product before paying?

frauschieze
06-08-2009, 09:10 AM
everyone keeps spinning that none of the other players are rehabbing in DEN, where is everyone getting this.. and is everyone absolutely sure they are not attending meetings and learning the playbooks watching folks from the sidelines..

I have asked for a quote or link that shows this to be true.. so far no one can show it to me.. if they can then I'll hold off till he fails to show up for mandatory camps or training camp..

I believe I saw a presser where Josh discussed those other players and getting updates on their progress from the training staff.. but then maybe I'm wrong and everyone is 100% right..

Someone did. You decided not to take it at face value and interpret it to mean something else. Someone could give you a quote from McDaniels about this situation that said, "I told him to go to Orlando." and you'd twist that around to mean he was still supposed to be at training camp and McDaniels meant he was supposed to go there between camps. There is no proof that will satisfy you.

I'll be all over Marshall's ass if he holds out. I just don't see any reason to completely debase someone based on a long list of assumptions that have yet to be proven true.

broncofanatic1987
06-08-2009, 12:32 PM
I haven't read/heard what kind of sentence he could receive, on his impending trial. Where'd you hear he could do time?

He's on trial for misdemeanor battery charges. I don't know how likely it is that he would be sentenced to jail time or for how long, but when someone is on trial for battery, it stands to reason that jail time is a possibility. Maybe someone with knowledge of Colorado's sentencing guidelines for misdemeanor battery can offer an opinion on how likely it is that Marshall could do jail time. At the moment, the Broncos can't rule out any of the possibilities and therefore should not be too quick to give Marshall a new deal.



Edit: I meant to say Georgia's sentencing guidelines for misdemeanor battery since the charges were brought in Atlanta, GA. Normally I would have just edited out the mistake, but since someone already quoted the post, I figured I would do it this way.

Nomad
06-08-2009, 12:38 PM
He's on trial for misdemeanor battery charges. I don't know how likely it is that he would be sentenced to jail time or for how long, but when someone is on trial for battery, it stands to reason that jail time is a possibility. Maybe someone with knowledge of Colorado's sentencing guidelines for misdemeanor battery can offer an opinion on how likely it is that Marshall could do jail time. At the moment, the Broncos can't rule out any of the possibilities and therefore should not be too quick to give Marshall a new deal.

I don't think he'll be found guilty or get jail time, but assuming he does, I'm sure the league will suspend him for many games.

broncofanatic1987
06-08-2009, 01:05 PM
I don't think he'll be found guilty or get jail time, but assuming he does, I'm sure the league will suspend him for many games.

I don't want to commit one way or the other on whether he he will be convicted. I think it might be unlikely that he would get jail time, but you never know since he did have that DUI. I think it's possible that a judge could take that into consideration, even though it was in a different state.

I just realized that I made a mistake in the previous post. It's not Colorado law that matters with the battery, it Georgia law, oops.

Jail time or not, he will get suspended if he's convicted.

lex
06-08-2009, 01:18 PM
If JR's comment was a personal attack, then that makes this response of
yours one, too. :coffee:



How is this:


"If you believe _______, youre naive" isnt a personal attack? LOL. Why does it not surprise me that you say this.

And regarding your second part, its funny when people try to make real world analogies that dont apply and try to pretend that players have no leverage. The players are the end product as much as anything. They are inventory as much as they are employees.

the same? Show me where I resorted to name calling. Youre just making stuff up. And besides, even if there was something besides an invented personal attack there, youve already tolerated and even defended the post I was referring to.


And if players are inventory, then what does a business do with inventory?
That's right: they buy and sell inventory. Fact is, those players would not even
be there as the "end product" if the owners were not there first with their
money, when many of those players were playing sandlot ball and deciding
whether to join a gang so they could have something in life, per their view.

OK, and what are the owners there doing? Thats right, they are meeting demand. What is the demand for? Thats right, the demand is for the end product. And dont pretend like most of the owners didnt get in on it after the NFL already had a good thing going. Bowlens investment in the Broncos has multiplied many times over. Theyre worth over a billion dollars now. Thats not because of Pat Bowlen. Thats because of a connection fans have with the players/teams. Pat should thank his players for the value theyve created for him over the years.


The owners are employers. The players are employees. That is the way it is.
When a player tries to alter that, they upset that balance, and you no longer
have a "team."
Once again, youre insistance on making real world comparisons are laughable. How many regular employees have contracts worth millions of dollars? How many regular employees have contracts? How many regular employees have agents? How many regular employees generate revenue through having people come watch them? I can poke holes in youre feeble comparisons all day.



Championships are won by teams, not stars. Anybody who has
been in the "real world" for long knows this. That is what JR meant by "naive."

A) "Its a business" cuts both ways. And a player seeking his value doesnt preclude winning. B) This isnt even relevant.

topscribe
06-08-2009, 01:27 PM
Hmmm . . . I smell a pissing contest. I'm not biting.

Enjoy your day! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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weazel
06-08-2009, 01:30 PM
trade him for Braylon Edwards. I'm not high on Edwards, but to me they are pretty much the same player. They both drop too many balls.

broncofanatic1987
06-08-2009, 01:31 PM
Based on this, http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp, it is possible for Marshall to be sentenced to jail time.


O.C.G.A. § 17-10-3 (Copy w/ Cite)

O.C.G.A. § 17-10-3
*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***

TITLE 17. CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 10. SENTENCE AND PUNISHMENT
ARTICLE 1. PROCEDURE FOR SENTENCING AND IMPOSITION OF PUNISHMENT

O.C.G.A. § 17-10-3 (2008)

§ 17-10-3. Punishment for misdemeanors generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided by law, every crime declared to be a misdemeanor shall be punished as follows:

(1) By a fine not to exceed $1,000.00 or by confinement in the county or other jail, county correctional institution, or such other places as counties may provide for maintenance of county inmates, for a total term not to exceed 12 months, or both;

(2) By confinement under the jurisdiction of the Board of Corrections in a state probation detention center or diversion center pursuant to Code Sections 42-8-35.4 and 42-8-35.5, for a determinate term of months which shall not exceed a total term of 12 months; or

(b) Either the punishment provided in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (a) of this Code section, but not both, may be imposed in the discretion of the sentencing judge. Misdemeanor punishment imposed under either paragraph may be subject to suspension or probation. The sentencing courts shall retain jurisdiction to amend, modify, alter, suspend, or probate sentences under paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this Code section at any time, but in no instance shall any sentence under the paragraph be modified in a manner to place a county inmate under the jurisdiction of the Board of Corrections, except as provided in paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of this Code section.

(c) In all misdemeanor cases in which, upon conviction, a six-month sentence or less is imposed, it is within the authority and discretion of the sentencing judge to allow the sentence to be served on weekends by weekend confinement or during the nonworking hours of the defendant. A weekend shall commence and shall end in the discretion of the sentencing judge, and the nonworking hours of the defendant shall be determined in the discretion of the sentencing judge; provided, however, that the judge shall retain plenary control of the defendant at all times during the sentence period. A weekend term shall be counted as serving two days of the full sentence. Confinement during the nonworking hours of a defendant during any day may be counted as serving a full day of the sentence.

(e) Any sentence imposed under subsection (d) of this Code section shall be reported to the Department of Driver Services as prescribed by law.

(f) The Department of Corrections shall lack jurisdiction to supervise misdemeanor offenders, except when the sentence is made concurrent to a probated felony sentence or when the sentence is accepted pursuant to Code Section 42-9-71. Except as provided in this subsection, the Department of Corrections shall lack jurisdiction to confine misdemeanor offenders.

(g) This Code section will have no effect upon any offender convicted of a misdemeanor offense prior January 1, 2001, and sentenced to confinement under the jurisdiction of the Board of Corrections or to the supervision of the Department of Corrections.

However, based on the following, I think it's probably unlikely that he would get jail time.


O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23.1 (Copy w/ Cite)

O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23.1

GEORGIA CODE
*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***

TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5. CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 2. ASSAULT AND BATTERY

O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23.1 (2008)

§ 16-5-23.1. Battery

(a) A person commits the offense of battery when he or she intentionally causes substantial physical harm or visible bodily harm to another.

(b) As used in this Code section, the term "visible bodily harm" means bodily harm capable of being perceived by a person other than the victim and may include, but is not limited to, substantially blackened eyes, substantially swollen lips or other facial or body parts, or substantial bruises to body parts.

(c) Except as provided in subsections (d) through (l) of this Code section, a person who commits the offense of battery is guilty of a misdemeanor.


O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23 (Copy w/ Cite)

O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23

GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2008 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.

*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***

TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5. CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 2. ASSAULT AND BATTERY

O.C.G.A. § 16-5-23 (2008)

§ 16-5-23. Simple battery


(a) A person commits the offense of simple battery when he or she either:

(1) Intentionally makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with the person of another; or

(2) Intentionally causes physical harm to another.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in subsections (c) through (i) of this Code section, a person convicted of the offense of simple battery shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

(c) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against a person who is 65 years of age or older or against a female who is pregnant at the time of the offense shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

(d) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery in a public transit vehicle or station shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature. For purposes of this Code section, "public transit vehicle" has the same meaning as in subsection (c) of Code Section 16-5-20.

(e) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against a police officer, law enforcement dog, correction officer, or detention officer engaged in carrying out official duties shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

(f) If the offense of simple battery is committed between past or present spouses, persons who are parents of the same child, parents and children, stepparents and stepchildren, foster parents and foster children, or other persons excluding siblings living or formerly living in the same household, the defendant shall be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature. In no event shall this subsection be applicable to corporal punishment administered by a parent or guardian to a child or administered by a person acting in loco parentis.

(g) A person who is an employee, agent, or volunteer at any facility licensed or required to be licensed under Code Section 31-7-3, relating to long-term care facilities, or Code Section 31-7-12, relating to personal care homes, or who is required to be licensed pursuant to Code Section 31-7-151 or 31-7-173, relating to home health care and hospices, who commits the offense of simple battery against a person who is admitted to or receiving services from such facility, person, or entity shall be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.

(h) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against a sports official while such sports official is officiating an amateur contest or while such sports official is on or exiting the property where he or she will officiate or has completed officiating an amateur contest shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature. For the purposes of this Code section, the term "sports official" means any person who officiates, umpires, or referees an amateur contest at the collegiate, elementary or secondary school, or recreational level.

(i) Any person who commits the offense of simple battery against an employee of a public school system of this state while such employee is engaged in official duties or on school property shall, upon conviction of such offense, be punished for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature. For purposes of this Code section, "school property" shall include public school buses and stops for public school buses as designated by local school boards of education.

lex
06-08-2009, 01:31 PM
Hmmm . . . I smell a pissing contest. I'm not biting.

Enjoy your day! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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Thats fine with me. LOL. Maybe you should have thought of that before.