Just how badazz was TD...

[underrated29]

The year that he ran for 2,008 yards and set a record in the history books. He essentailly did it in 14 games.

I was watching the '98 recap americas game last night. And Shanny had pulled TD at halftime in quite a few games. TD statistically sat out for a complete full 8 quarters. Thats 2 whole games right there. Yet he still managed to Dominate and get past the 2k barrier.

[T.K.O.]

i wanted so badly for him to come back from that injury,he could have set multiple records and coasted to the hof.
such a shame (and got munched by a team mate at that)
oh well at least he seems to enjoy his job now and has the respect of his peers.
i hope moreno watched that game as well as alot of td's film alot of young backs could learn a thing or two from davis about how to succeed on and off the field !
that man played with HEART !:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

He was a beast. Only OJ Simpson ran for 2000 yrds in 14 games... but he did it twice.

TD was just FUN to watch... just fun to watch.

[WARHORSE]

The year that he ran for 2,008 yards and set a record in the history books. He essentailly did it in 14 games.

I was watching the '98 recap americas game last night. And Shanny had pulled TD at halftime in quite a few games. TD statistically sat out for a complete full 8 quarters. Thats 2 whole games right there. Yet he still managed to Dominate and get past the 2k barrier.



I thought all Broncos fans knew this. He is also the all time rusher for a season when you count the 98 post season.

In 98, against Philly, he had 168 yds at half time and was pulled.

Against Dallas he had 122 yds.........on two carries. First, he ran for 63 yds and a touchdown on one carry. The very next time he touched the ball, he ran for 59 yds and a touchdown.


Yes........2008 yds in 14 games if you look at actual playing time.

[SoCalImport]

I thought all Broncos fans knew this. He is also the all time rusher for a season when you count the 98 post season.

In 98, against Philly, he had 168 yds at half time and was pulled.

Against Dallas he had 122 yds.........on two carries. First, he ran for 63 yds and a touchdown on one carry. The very next time he touched the ball, he ran for 59 yds and a touchdown.


Yes........2008 yds in 14 games if you look at actual playing time.


lol.. I got to watch that game against dallas with a buddy that's a huge cowboys fan... To his credit, He stayed and watched the whole thing. Then again I was buyin the beers..hmmm

[dogfish]

my all-time favorite football player!


:salute:


he was truly badass, and unfortunately you can tell from a lot of the comments made on these boards that even a lot of broncos fans, who were spoiled by the continued success of our running game after TD's departure, don't TRULY appreciate just how good he really was. . . .

[Thnikkaman]

He was awesome. I still get a big grin on my face every time I see him on NFLN. As far as I'm concerned, he was one of the GOATs at that position. Both him and Little deserve to be in the HoF, and the HoF is a joke until they are both there.

On a side note, was watching The Express with my wife 2 weekends ago (excellent movie), and flipped out at the end when they were trying to recruit Little to Syracuse.

[underrated29]

I thought all Broncos fans knew this. He is also the all time rusher for a season when you count the 98 post season.

In 98, against Philly, he had 168 yds at half time and was pulled.

Against Dallas he had 122 yds.........on two carries. First, he ran for 63 yds and a touchdown on one carry. The very next time he touched the ball, he ran for 59 yds and a touchdown.


Yes........2008 yds in 14 games if you look at actual playing time.




I think you are right. I think most all bronco fans know that he was pulled during lots of games. I always thought how much more he could have gotten had he stayed in...

But i never realized it was a full two games worth. He was averaging something like 138 yards a game. Just and AVERAGE.

If he played those other quarters that another 276 yards on average. He potentially could have set the all time record for most yards in reg season...


Certainly guys like oj and such also probably missed some games when they had the lead, but i dont know how many or how much more it would have helped.

[scott.475]

Yep, and he did it over a long enough period of time that he was definitely no flash in the pan. He was really the first of these guys that had the perfect balance of power and speed, and he had pretty darn good catching skills as well, no Marshall Faulk, but he was pretty good.

Anyway, to really respect how good he was, you have to remember what others were saying about him at the time. I remember numerous defenders talking about how it hit so hard that by mid-3rd quarter you just did not want to have to hit him any more, and yet he had the speed to break out for big runs too. He was a very, very special talent and it is too bad he could not have had at least another two full, healthy years.

Oh, another example, even after his knee injury he came back and played for I think half a year, sparingly I think, and was STILL the teams leading rusher. I don't have the time to look it up right now, but I think I remember that right.

[yardog]

TD was a MAN among boys. :salute: TD he made the Broncos SB Champs.

[Flatinum]

7 out of 8 postseason games the guy rushed for over 100 yds and the one game he didn't he had 91yds. That was actually the upset loss to Jax in 97 so he rushed for 100yds or more in 7 straight playoff games. No one will ever come close to that. The guy was money.

[BigDaddyBronco]

That TD isn't in the HOF is just criminal. Tell me, that for a 3 year period he wasn't the best player in the game. Just because he didn't put up mediocre numbers for the rest of his career to have "longevity" shouldn't mean jack.

[powderaddict]

I watched the Broncos first SB win again not long ago (bought the DVD set). Throughout the whole game, and the following SB win as well, that's what really struck me was just how HARD he ran, and never slowed down. He was just relentless, and there was nothing opposing defenses could do to stop him.

I also believe it's criminal he's not in the HoF. Sure, he may not have LT's gaudy regular season numbers, but look at when he was his best - playoffs, and the SB.

To hold a fluke injury that would end the career of just about any RB against him is just plain stupid. He was tough, as he proved in the playoffs.

[Lonestar]

The year that he ran for 2,008 yards and set a record in the history books. He essentailly did it in 14 games.

I was watching the '98 recap americas game last night. And Shanny had pulled TD at halftime in quite a few games. TD statistically sat out for a complete full 8 quarters. Thats 2 whole games right there. Yet he still managed to Dominate and get past the 2k barrier.


in some of those games he was pre or post migrane.. one only wonders had he played and ran the normal number of touches all year just how many more yards he could have gotten..


But you also have to remember because he was a work horse his knees were worn out the much earlier.. TB was truly special..

[Lonestar]

That TD isn't in the HOF is just criminal. Tell me, that for a 3 year period he wasn't the best player in the game. Just because he didn't put up mediocre numbers for the rest of his career to have "longevity" shouldn't mean jack.


because many of the other RB's in DEN got their 1000-1500 every year it became a joke about the system so many in the HOF voters block just saw him as the first of the system RBs DEN had..

that and the east coast bias of the voters will most likely cause him never to be inducted.. he was not the first Bronco to be over looked nor will he be the last..

[LoyalSoldier]

The thing I always loved about him was his playoff performance. The guy averaged 150 yards a game in the playoffs. 150 FREAKING YARDS A GAME!

[scott.475]

Also remember, he only played in 2-1/2 quarters of SB32, and yet, per Wikipedia, "In the Super Bowl, Davis rushed for 157 yards, caught 2 passes for 8 yards, and became the first player in Super Bowl history ever to score 3 rushing touchdowns."

[LordTrychon]

:salute::salute::salute::salute: :salute::salute::salute::salute:
:salute::salute::salute::salute: :salute::salute::salute::salute:

[Shazam!]

Without him Denver wouldn't have been who they were through 1996-1998 and he was a HUGE part of bringing it all together. However the OLine is what made the Denver Offense and TD so formidable. They were so good teams knew what Denver would do and they couldn't stop it, they were just so ridiculous. They blasted open HUGE holes and played with a cohhesiveness, fluidity and chemistry that was just brilliant to watch. They also made John Elway's life a helluva lot easier and was a huge factor in keeping an aging QB upright. When they lost Habib (Detroit?) in the 98' offseason and Zimmerman retired, there was many 'experts and analysts' that were saying how Denver's OLine wouldn't be the same without Zimmerman AND Habib. What was ironic was they were even BETTER in 1998.

Again I'm not taking anything away from TD, and we will all remember his enormous success and greatness that were pivotal to the Super Broncos' years. But TD and the OLine went hand in hand.

[WARHORSE]

lol.. I got to watch that game against dallas with a buddy that's a huge cowboys fan... To his credit, He stayed and watched the whole thing. Then again I was buyin the beers..hmmm


Man we share the dream. I have a friend who's a die hard Dally girl fan who went to my house while I was at church at decked it in Cowgirl gear pre-game.

I came home....... and this was when Emmitt, Troy and Irvin were comin down off their SB years and the CGirls were still a good team......and it was ON. I pretty much stood over him the whole first half, while he sat with his chin in his hands.

He had to wear a Broncos cap for a week, and anytime anyone asked about football, all his answers had to be as if he were a diehard Broncos fan.

So if someone asked him 'Whos your team?", he would have to reply with 'The World Champion Denver Broncos of course" ..or something to that effect.


One of my better years I might add.

I won a TON of those bets.

The best was the Miami/Denver rematch in the playoffs right after Miami beat us in the regular season.

38-3.:laugh::salute::salute:

[EMB6903]

Its amazing what Terrell Davis accomplished in a pretty short career, if the HOF is about accomplishments than Terrell Davis is a lock, 2 Superbowl rings, 1 Superbowl MVP, 1 league MVP, 1 rushing title, 1 2000 yard season, 3 time all pro, Led the league in TD's for a year, and as another poster said was absolutely DOMINANT in the playoffs... The best playoff running back of alltime 7 out of the 8 playoff games he played in he rushed over 100 yards, the other one being 91 against the Jags in 96 (his first playoff game ever)

1996 Divisonal game vs Jacksonville= 14 attempts 91 yards 1 TD
1997 Wildcard game vs Jacksonville= 31 attempts 184 yards 2 TDs
1997 Divisonal game vs Kansas City= 25 attempts 101 yards 2 TDs
1997 Conference title game vs Pittsburgh= 26 attempts 139 yards 1 TD
1997 Superbowl game vs Green Bay= 30 attempts 157 yards 3 TDs (in 3 quarters) was named Superbowl MVP
1998 Divisonal game vs Miami= 21 attempts 199 yards 2 TDs
1998 Conference title game vs NY Jets= 32 attempts 167 yards 1 TD
1998 Superbowl game vs Atlanta= 25 attempts 102 yards

Broncos playoff record with TD= 7-1 (7 straight wins) along with 2 superbowls

talk about amazing

[horsepig]

Shrinks always say use the first thing that pops into your head as the answer.

Ask me my alltime favorite play and it always comes down to TD's 30 something run on that first drive against the Pack. Inside the 10 and I'm thinking, Hell yes! TD's great year was no Damned AFC fluke, we're gonna run it down their throats and then Elway will just @#$%^&* kill'em! We're gonna win this damn thing!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Overrated. Knowshon Moreno > Terrell "No-Knee" Davis.

[Shazam!]

... and this was when Emmitt, Troy and Irvin were comin down off their SB years and the CGirls were still a good team......and it was ON. I pretty much stood over him the whole first half, while he sat with his chin in his hands.

He had to wear a Broncos cap for a week, and anytime anyone asked about football, all his answers had to be as if he were a diehard Broncos fan.

So if someone asked him 'Whos your team?", he would have to reply with 'The World Champion Denver Broncos of course" ..or something to that effect.

I made a similar bet with another manager at my job then who was a Cowboys fan when they came to Denver in Week 2 of the '98 Season. They got whacked good (and TD had the 2 back-to-back big runs) like 45-28 if I remember right, something like that. As per the bet, we took Polaroids with the company camera of him wearing an Elway jersey. The pic is hilarious. I'm in the pic all happy, and he has a look like someone just killed his dog in beautiful Broncos colors... Funny stuff.


The best was the Miami/Denver rematch in the playoffs right after Miami beat us in the regular season.

38-3.:laugh::salute:

I LOVED that week (I have the game on tape). All Broncos fans across the Nation knew Miami was doomed. After what happened a month ago at Joe Robbie, everyone knew Miami wouldn't be the same team with a healthy inspired Broncos team, and Shanahan said they held back the playbook in that game. I know Elway had to be salivating to beat the snot out of Marino's team. Two very memorable plays when Rod Smith was driven into the turf head first and Neil Smith chugged the fumble al the way for a TD. Towards the end of the game one commentator said "This one... has been a root canal without novacaine." Awesome. Classic Super Broncos era memories I will never forget.

[scott.475]

Dallas run highlight at 1:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLkrYiNy8Ck&feature=PlayList&p=195F518DD61376C8&index=75&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL

See TD WITH HAIR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuXZQrd8yQ

[atwater27]

Overrated. Knowshon Moreno > Terrell "No-Knee" Davis.

If anybody else said this, I would know they were just playin....

But you.

Not sure.

[dogfish]

Overrated. Knowshon Moreno > Terrell "No-Knee" Davis.

**** you. . . . :wave:

[Shazam!]

Originally Posted by Cicero
"Overrated. Knowshon Moreno > Terrell "No-Knee" Davis."
________________________________________________

This must be a joke... right?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Terrell Davis who?

[scott.475]

Terrell Davis who?

And Rod Smith was a lazy bum, Shannon Sharpe was an incompetent loud mouth, and John Elway was a weak armed panzy.


BLASHPEMY! A POX ON YOUR HOUSE CICERO!:D

And we need not address such silliness any further.

[BroncoTech]

He was so awesome Chuck Norris would openly weep at his mere presence.

[WARHORSE]

He was so awesome Chuck Norris would openly weep at his mere presence.


:salute:He was so awesome Batman showed up.:salute:

[Shazam!]

:salute:He was so awesome Batman showed up.:salute:

...to back up Superman.

[scott.475]

Chuck Norris named his fists "Terrell" and "Davis"

Jack Bauer uses only 30 caliber weapons in honor of Terrell Davis

Vulcans replaced their split-finger Vulcan greeting with a Mile High Salute in honor of Terrell Davis

[Shazam!]

We'd be lucky to see another Back with the talent of TD in our lifetimes.

[lex]

That TD isn't in the HOF is just criminal. Tell me, that for a 3 year period he wasn't the best player in the game. Just because he didn't put up mediocre numbers for the rest of his career to have "longevity" shouldn't mean jack.

Exactly. Its funny. At no point in Curtis Martins career was he ever better than Terrell Davis, yet he will get rubberstamped into the hall because he had a lot of the mediocre years you speak of. But why did Art Monk not make it into the HOF? Its because you often hear that he was always good but never great. Well, Terrell was great in spades during his time. Its a travesty.

[Shazam!]

Martin had some insane durability and never played behind a Line anywhere close to what Denver had. Don't take that away from Curtis M. He was a great Back. TD only lasted technically 4 years, that's why it'll be difficult for him to make it in the HoF. His knees are the base of Denver's Super Bowl trophies. The guy truly sacrificed his body for the Broncos.

[lex]

Martin had some insane durability and never played behind a Line anywhere close to what Denver had. Don't take that away from Curtis M. He was a great Back. TD only lasted technically 4 years, that's why it'll be difficult for him to make it in the HoF. His knees are the base of Denver's Super Bowl trophies. The guy truly sacrificed his body for the Broncos.

Nah, I still say Martin was a very good back and Davis was a great back. Denvers line was awesome but so was TD. Theres give and take as far as that goes. There were plenty of times where TDs back up would play and the value of TD was obvious. They had success at other times but if it was all the OLine, the other backs would have been virtually as successful as TD.

And actually, Martin played behind an OLine that was competent enough to go to a SB in New England. He also played behind some good OLines in NY.

[Shazam!]

Martin's durability cannot be questioned, and he has an edge on TD just because of all the years. Don't even dare to compare the NE and NYJ lines with Denver's from 96-98.

[lex]

Martin's durability cannot be questioned, and he has an edge on TD just because of all the years. Don't even dare to compare the NE and NYJ lines with Denver's from 96-98.

Its about producing. When I look at the stats for a given year, one guy is great, the other one is not as much.

[ism]

The year that he ran for 2,008 yards and set a record in the history books. He essentailly did it in 14 games.

I was watching the '98 recap americas game last night. And Shanny had pulled TD at halftime in quite a few games. TD statistically sat out for a complete full 8 quarters. Thats 2 whole games right there. Yet he still managed to Dominate and get past the 2k barrier.

TD was such a stud! I can't wait to see what Moreno looks like in Broncos Garb in an official NFL game behind our studly O-line :laugh:

[frenchfan]

The thing I always loved about him was his playoff performance. The guy averaged 150 yards a game in the playoffs. 150 FREAKING YARDS A GAME!


Its amazing what Terrell Davis accomplished in a pretty short career, if the HOF is about accomplishments than Terrell Davis is a lock, 2 Superbowl rings, 1 Superbowl MVP, 1 league MVP, 1 rushing title, 1 2000 yard season, 3 time all pro, Led the league in TD's for a year, and as another poster said was absolutely DOMINANT in the playoffs... The best playoff running back of alltime 7 out of the 8 playoff games he played in he rushed over 100 yards, the other one being 91 against the Jags in 96 (his first playoff game ever)

1996 Divisonal game vs Jacksonville= 14 attempts 91 yards 1 TD
1997 Wildcard game vs Jacksonville= 31 attempts 184 yards 2 TDs
1997 Divisonal game vs Kansas City= 25 attempts 101 yards 2 TDs
1997 Conference title game vs Pittsburgh= 26 attempts 139 yards 1 TD
1997 Superbowl game vs Green Bay= 30 attempts 157 yards 3 TDs (in 3 quarters) was named Superbowl MVP
1998 Divisonal game vs Miami= 21 attempts 199 yards 2 TDs
1998 Conference title game vs NY Jets= 32 attempts 167 yards 1 TD
1998 Superbowl game vs Atlanta= 25 attempts 102 yards

Broncos playoff record with TD= 7-1 (7 straight wins) along with 2 superbowls

talk about amazingRight on the money guys... :salute:

Not only TD was a great RB during the regular...
But he was even better in the money time... Priceless
The best RB I've seen playing with Barry Sanders...

I wish we could have this type of RB back soon... Then I wouldn't mind to have Simms or Orton behind the centre ;) :D

[Shazam!]

Its about producing. When I look at the stats for a given year, one guy is great, the other one is not as much.

TD was behind the best OLine of the 90's.

Martin was never behind a Line that was as dominant as Denver's in all his years.

It isn't a stretch to say Denver had better overall blockers too with Sharpe and Co.

I'm not saying he's any better than TD but don't discredit him.

[lex]

TD was behind the best OLine of the 90's.

Martin was never behind a Line that was as dominant as Denver's in all his years.

It isn't a stretch to say Denver had better overall blockers too with Sharpe and Co.

I'm not saying he's any better than TD but don't discredit him.

Like I said, he was never great like TD but he was very good for a long time.

[Northman]

I dont think Lex is discrediting Martin he is just saying he wasnt as good as TD. And i would agree.

[jrelway]

TD once had an awkward moment, just to see what it would feel like.

[weazel]

far too short of a career, far too short...

[horsepig]

Curtis Martin was a fine RB. TD was un$$$$ing believable.

[lex]

I dont think Lex is discrediting Martin he is just saying he wasnt as good as TD. And i would agree.

Be careful. Shazam is going to put you on the Curis Martin Newsletter mailing list so youll be bombarded with propaganda.

[Poet]

That TD isn't in the HOF is just criminal. Tell me, that for a 3 year period he wasn't the best player in the game. Just because he didn't put up mediocre numbers for the rest of his career to have "longevity" shouldn't mean jack.

Wrong. He had a great, but short career. The fact of the matter is that his career numbers are too small to get into the HOF.

I think he would have continued to be a beast, but as far as a career goes, it does not measure up.

[lex]

Wrong. He had a great, but short career. The fact of the matter is that his career numbers are too small to get into the HOF.

I think he would have continued to be a beast, but as far as a career goes, it does not measure up.

Sayers made it in. The precedent is there. Davis' accomplishment easily justifies getting in. Theres no way he should be denied for not having a couple more 1,200 seasons. The voting should be weighted more towards whats on his resume than whats missing, which, again, is a couple of 1,200 yard seasons.

[Poet]

Sayers made it in. The precedent is there. Davis' accomplishment easily justifies getting in. Theres no way he should be denied for not having a couple more 1,200 seasons. The voting should be weighted more towards whats on his resume than whats missing, which, again, is a couple of 1,200 yard seasons.

Sayers should not have made it in, and putting in Davis would be nothing more than repeating the same mistake.

[lex]

Sayers should not have made it in, and putting in Davis would be nothing more than repeating the same mistake.

Its a hall of fame. There should more to it than adding a couple of 1200 yard seasons. TD has too much on his resume to have something as small as that torpedo him.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Davis is overrated. Thurman Thomas was better.

[Lonestar]

Sayers made it in. The precedent is there. Davis' accomplishment easily justifies getting in. Theres no way he should be denied for not having a couple more 1,200 seasons. The voting should be weighted more towards whats on his resume than whats missing, which, again, is a couple of 1,200 yard seasons.


sayers also played in a mega media market Chicago in a different era where those kind of yard meant something..


TD while a great back because he was in DEN and had a short career will most likely never get in the HOF..

[Shazam!]

Be careful. Shazam is going to put you on the Curis Martin Newsletter mailing list so youll be bombarded with propaganda.

Put Curtis Martin behind a Denver line through the same years in 95-98 he'd have better numbers too. His YPC would have definitely been higher. He never had a line like Denver's which was so good it was disgusting.

I'm a realist. Not a homer.

TD was the best Back the Broncos had, but half that success is from the offensive line. You know, the catalyst for your running game? Saying otherwise is doing them all a disservice. Denver needed a breakthrough Back for years but the OLine was their key to success. Rewatch the Super Bowl.

You need a new Av too.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Your avatar is the gayest on the website. Don't direct Lex before you fix your own woes.

[Northman]

Sayers should not have made it in, and putting in Davis would be nothing more than repeating the same mistake.


Although i understand your thought process i would still have to disagree. During that time there was no RB better or more dominant during those years. I'll say it here and now, as good and solid as LT is he hasnt nearly accomplished what TD did in a much shorter time span.

[lex]

sayers also played in a mega media market Chicago in a different era where those kind of yard meant something..


TD while a great back because he was in DEN and had a short career will most likely never get in the HOF..

Basically youre telling me he had a short career. We've actually covered that already.

[lex]

Put Curtis Martin behind a Denver line through the same years in 95-98 he'd have better numbers too. His YPC would have definitely been higher. He never had a line like Denver's which was so good it was disgusting.

I'm a realist. Not a homer.

No, youre a Curtis Martin fan who feels compelled to trash TD in order to elevate Curtis Martin. The fact is, you dont actually know that Curtis Martin would have been as good behind that offensive line. There were times where the back ups had success running but other times not so much. Thats TD. The Super Bowl was TD. If you dont believe me go check out how the offense functioned when he was out of the game with a migraine. Not only that but he had a combination of vision, and strength/balance that I would put above Martin. Neither had great speed.


TD was the best Back the Broncos had, but half that success is from the offensive line. You know, the catalyst for your running game? Saying otherwise is doing them all a disservice. Denver needed a breakthrough Back for years but the OLine was their key to success. Rewatch the Super Bowl.

No, if youre going to quote me you should do it right. Its a combination of the OL, having WRs who block, a QB who can keep the defense out of the box, scheming, and a great RB. But as I said above, Davis earned a lot of yards after contact through patience/vision and his ability to absorb contact and maintain balance. He had to be in sync with the OL. He was an incredibly strong runner. I think you must have forgotten that. No need to trash Davis just because you also like Martin.

[lex]

Your avatar is the gayest on the website. Don't direct Lex before you fix your own woes.

I didnt click the link...thankfully.

[Shazam!]

No, youre a Curtis Martin fan who feels compelled to trash TD in order to elevate Curtis Martin.

I'm anything BUT a Martin fan. I'm realistic. This goes beyond him anyway.


The fact is, you dont actually know that Curtis Martin would have been as good behind that offensive line.

That is true.


There were times where the back ups had success running but other times not so much.

As I sad TD was the best Back the Broncos had and the best I've seen in my lifetime. I don't dispute that.


Thats TD. The Super Bowl was TD.

TD blocked at the LoS on his carries too, not just the Super Bowl but throughout the years? TD was blowing tank-sized holes throughout his career? TD was his own lead blocker? Really? At the LoS in any Broncos win during the span, games that they lost how did they lose? They didn't dominate the LoS. When they did, it was over.


If you dont believe me go check out how the offense functioned when he was out of the game with a migraine.

See above in bold.


Not only that but he had a combination of vision, and strength/balance that I would put above Martin. Neither had great speed.


Its a combination of the OL, having WRs who block, a QB who can keep the defense out of the box, and scheming.

You just made my point thats all I'm trying to say.


But as I said above, Davis earned a lot of yards after contact through patience/vision and his ability to absorb contact and maintain balance. He had to be in sync with the OL. He was an incredibly strong runner. I think you must have forgotten that. No need to trash Davis just because you also like Martin.

I'm not trashing Davis or questioning his abilities and I don't 'like' Martin. Martin played a lot longer, had twice the carries than Davis' short career, 30+ TDs more, 10 straight 1k rushing seasons which I think is close to the top for that feat. I'm not a Martin fan and I never said HE WAS BETTER. He played a lot longer than TD did. He was a good Back too. TD's durability and longevity is the only thing that holds him back and questions his HoF potential.

Originally Posted by Cicero
Your avatar is the gayest on the website. Don't direct Lex before you fix your own woes.

You were barely 6 when he was drafted, not even 10 when TD was running for the Super Broncos, and according to you he sucks anyway. At least Lex obviously watched TD live and not as a child or on ESPN highlights. Therefore, your opinion is completely moot on the issue.

[Poet]

Although i understand your thought process i would still have to disagree. During that time there was no RB better or more dominant during those years. I'll say it here and now, as good and solid as LT is he hasnt nearly accomplished what TD did in a much shorter time span.

I can see that. Look, I like your team, I like your fans, I like TD as a player. If he got in it wouldn't be a damn crime and shame. There are a lot of players on the Broncos who are borderline or flat out HOFers who aren't there.

I am not going to start a long drawn out argument about the merits of LT, but I will say that if you took LT in his prime and put him on that Denver team you would get the same result as far as winning, IMO.

We could never know obviously, it's just a projection.

[lex]

I'm anything BUT a Martin fan. I'm realistic. This goes beyond him anyway.

Thats funny. More and more, I was starting to think you're a closet Patriot fan.






As I sad TD was the best Back the Broncos had and the best I've seen in my lifetime. I don't dispute that.

So, whats with all the Martin propaganda. I say Davis was great, whereas Martin was very good for a long time then suddenly you have an axe to grind....except you dont? ???. There seems to be some double-talk going on.



TD blocked at the LoS on his carries too, not just the Super Bowl but throughout the years? TD was blowing tank-sized holes throughout his career? TD was his own lead blocker? Really? At the LoS in any Broncos win during the span, games that they lost how did they lose? They didn't dominate the LoS. When they did, it was over.



See above in bold.

No, Ive already acknowledged the line. You know this. But you keep insisting that it was the offensive line...as if Davis didnt do anything on his own. This simply isnt true. And the SB is evidence of that. If it was all the offensive line and Davis was just some scrub who benefited from the OL, then you wouldnt see the kind of disparity between Davis and the back ups like what you saw in the SB. Like I said, the offense stagnated without Davis in the lineup during the SB. As good as the OL was, it wasnt a case where the OL was so good that the backups could just be plugged in and make it work. That was the case in the Jax game a few games earlier during that postseason. But without TD, we dont win the KC game, the Pittsburgh game, or the SB against Green Bay.

My g/f is from Boston and an ex-colleague is from Boston. Even they acknowledge how great Davis.






You just made my point thats all I'm trying to say.

At no point did I deny Denver had a great OLine. It was a running game for the ages and a lot went into it. But you also have to have a great RB, which we did.

Do you remember the game in 1997 where it snowed in Denver in late October? I remember that day well. It was supposed to snow maybe an inch but then the cloud was supposed to move on...well, the cloud didnt move on. I think it eventually snowed over 15 inches that Friday. Anyway, the airport was snowed in and the only plane to leave that Saturday was the Broncos team plane. Getting all the players to the airport was a feat itself. Does Tagliabue move the game time back? No, being the east coast jerkface he is, he insisted on keeping the game at its normal time. So, Denver goes into that game somewhat out of sorts. The passing game was not clicking that day, at all. Denver won that game by giving the ball to Davis 40 times. He had over 200 yards with minimal help from the passing game. Its hard to find flaw considering the circumstance but still, we gutted out that win because Davis was such a stud.




I'm not trashing Davis or questioning his abilities and I don't 'like' Martin. Martin played a lot longer, had twice the carries than Davis' short career, 30+ TDs more, 10 straight 1k rushing seasons which I think is close to the top for that feat. I'm not a Martin fan and I never said HE WAS BETTER. He played a lot longer than TD did. He was a good Back too. TD's durability and longevity is the only thing that holds him back and questions his HoF potential.

TDs durability wasnt the issue so much. He was injured by a freak accident that, had it happened to anyone else, including Martin, it would have injured their knee as well. Its not like Davis wore down from wear and tear like Earl Campbell or Shaun Alexander. Davis was actually quite durable for the time that he played. Bad luck kept us from knowing how durable though.

[Shazam!]

I am not going to start a long drawn out argument about the merits of LT, but I will say that if you took LT in his prime and put him on that Denver team you would get the same result as far as winning, IMO.

We could never know obviously, it's just a projection.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. Unfortunately because I hate Lady Tom.

[Poet]

By the way, Curtis Martin is a great RB and should be a HOFer. His career has to be considered better than TD's because he did more. I know that has to be a bitter pill to swallow for Denver fans, because TD was the better player. But, his career was much worse than Martin's.

The HOF is a reward to having a great career. A great career lasts longer than TD's. Longevity has to be a factor, being a flash in the pan is too common to let guys in.

Now, because his career was so brilliant, your points are defendable. When I say a flash in the pan career think of guys like Jamal Lewis, Bo Jackson, Priest Holmes.

It would not be a crime and shame if TD was a HOFer, but I don't think he is one. For the record, I would not be against taking Gale Sayers out of the HOF either.

[Northman]

I am not going to start a long drawn out argument about the merits of LT, but I will say that if you took LT in his prime and put him on that Denver team you would get the same result as far as winning, IMO.




Absolutely. And i also think that TD being on that Chargers team would of been just as successful if not more. Our Oline was good but it wasnt like we had guys behind him able to carry that team the way he did. Lovelle had some success here and there but never on the level as a Michael Turner or even the midget Sproles. Even though i have no doubt that LT would of been great on that Denver team i cant discredit what TD did while he was there. I agree that i dont think he will ever get in. Not just because of his short career but because Denver players get snubbed quite a bit as it is in terms of the HOF.

[lex]

By the way, Curtis Martin is a great RB and should be a HOFer. His career has to be considered better than TD's because he did more. I know that has to be a bitter pill to swallow for Denver fans, because TD was the better player. But, his career was much worse than Martin's.

The HOF is a reward to having a great career. A great career lasts longer than TD's. Longevity has to be a factor, being a flash in the pan is too common to let guys in.

Now, because his career was so brilliant, your points are defendable. When I say a flash in the pan career think of guys like Jamal Lewis, Bo Jackson, Priest Holmes.

It would not be a crime and shame if TD was a HOFer, but I don't think he is one. For the record, I would not be against taking Gale Sayers out of the HOF either.

Was he ever a league MVP? Was he ever a super bowl MVP (he played in a SB in 1996)? Did he ever rush for 2000 yards in a season? The only thing Martin did was stuck around. If thats how you define "doing more" then youve severely diluted the meaning of the word "accomplishment". Basically, from 1999 on (1999 was where Davis got injured), Martin averaged 83 yards a game. YAY!

[Shazam!]

Thats funny. More and more, I was starting to think you're a closet Patriot fan.

He spent more time with the NYJ.


So, whats with all the Martin propaganda. I say Davis was great, whereas Martin was very good for a long time then suddenly you have an axe to grind....except you dont? ???. There seems to be some double-talk going on.

No double talk here. Martin had some great years and was dependable. As good as TD? No. But TD had clearly better blockers in front of him and Martin lasted a lot longer. That's all I've been trying to say.


No, Ive already acknowledged the line. You know this. But you keep insisting that it was the offensive line...as if Davis didnt do anything on his own. This simply isnt true. And the SB is evidence of that. If it was all the offensive line and Davis was just some scrub who benefited from the OL, then you wouldnt see the kind of disparity between Davis and the back ups like what you saw in the SB. Like I said, the offense stagnated without Davis in the lineup during the SB. As good as the OL was, it wasnt a case where the OL was so good that the backups could just be plugged in and make it work. That was the case in the Jax game a few games earlier during that postseason. But without TD, we dont win the KC game, the Pittsburgh game, or the SB against Green Bay.

Again. TD was the best Back the Broncos had. Stop repeating me. I never argued this and I never said he was a scrub.


My g/f is from Boston and an ex-colleague is from Boston. Even they acknowledge how great Davis.

Even my gf knows Denver's OLine was the key to their success in the 90's, and why they got trampled in Super Bowls because they got dominated on the LoS.



At no point did I deny Denver had a great OLine. It was a running game for the ages and a lot went into it. But you also have to have a great RB, which we did.

I think you just short change the OLine and the blockers. Howard Griffith is one of the most unappreciated pieces of those years.


Do you remember the game in 1997 where it snowed in Denver in late October? I remember that day well. It was supposed to snow maybe an inch but then the cloud was supposed to move on...well, the cloud didnt move on. I think it eventually snowed over 15 inches that Friday. Anyway, the airport was snowed in and the only plane to leave that Saturday was the Broncos team plane. Getting all the players to the airport was a feat itself. Does Tagliabue move the game time back? No, being the east coast jerkface he is, he insisted on keeping the game at its normal time. So, Denver goes into that game somewhat out of sorts. The passing game was not clicking that day, at all. Denver won that game by giving the ball to Davis 40 times. He had over 200 yards with minimal help from the passing game. Its hard to find flaw considering the circumstance but still, we gutted out that win because Davis was such a stud.

The game was at Buffalo. Elam kicked the winning score. We could pick up so many individual regular and post season games where Davis and co. were the difference, even in the years prior to Denver's Super Bowls.


TDs durability wasnt the issue so much. He was injured by a freak accident that, had it happened to anyone else, including Martin, it would have injured their knee as well. Its not like Davis wore down from wear and tear like Earl Campbell or Shaun Alexander. Davis was actually quite durable for the time that he played. Bad luck kept us from knowing how durable though

Again, longevity is the problem. I still blame Griese for his INT.

They had many mediocre Backs aside from him. But there is a plethora of other Backs in the NFL that could've been behind those Lines and blockers and there wouldve been little difference.

Lex I'm not going to bicker with you about this endlessly. I agree TD was the best Broncos Back we've had and the best I've ever seen Denver field at the position. But a lot of the success of the Oline and the rest of the team contributed to his success. Teams who dominate the LoS- win.

[lex]

He spent more time with the NYJ.



No double talk here. Martin had some great years and was dependable. As good as TD? No. But TD had clearly better blockers in front of him and Martin lasted a lot longer. That's all I've been trying to say.



Again. TD was the best Back the Broncos had. Stop repeating me. I never argued this and I never said he was a scrub.



I think you just short change the OLine and the blockers. Howard Griffith is one of the most unappreciated pieces of those years.



The game was at Buffalo. Elam kicked the winning score. We could pick up so many individual regular and post season games where Davis and co. were the difference, even in the years prior to Denver's Super Bowls.



Again, longevity is the problem. I still blame Griese for his INT.

They had many mediocre Backs aside from him. But there is a plethora of other Backs in the NFL that could've been behind those Lines and blockers and there wouldve been little difference.

Lex I'm not going to bicker with you about this endlessly. I agree TD was the best Broncos Back we've had and the best I've ever seen Denver field at the position. But a lot of the success of the Oline and the rest of the team contributed to his success. Teams who dominate the LoS- win.

I disagree. While I agree that we also had a great OLine, Im going to have to say that Davis was also a great RB. Im also not going to stand in awe of Martin for averaging 83 yards a game for the time after Davis was injured. Thats simply not enough to offset Davis' MVP, SB MVP, 2000 yard season, etc. 83 yards a game isnt great...not the way Davis was.

[CoachChaz]

All this ranting from a Rams fan. I dont get it

[Poet]

Was he ever a league MVP? Was he ever a super bowl MVP (he played in a SB in 1996)? Did he ever rush for 2000 yards in a season? The only thing Martin did was stuck around. If thats how you define "doing more" then youve severely diluted the meaning of the word "accomplishment". Basically, from 1999 on (1999 was where Davis got injured), Martin averaged 83 yards a game. YAY!

Did he not rush for more yards? Was he not the guy with ten straight 1k yard seasons?

He did more on the football field. Curtis Martin replacing TD on the Broncos SB teams would probably have the same result.

See, he did more than "just stick around". And I know that he never had as good as an offensive line as TD. For all we know TD was another guy like Priest Holmes who was great in spurts and then his career just died because of injury...

Oh wait....lol.

[Poet]

All this ranting from a Rams fan. I dont get it

Who is a Rams fan?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Did he not rush for more yards? Was he not the guy with ten straight 1k yard seasons?

He did more on the football field. Curtis Martin replacing TD on the Broncos SB teams would probably have the same result.

See, he did more than "just stick around". And I know that he never had as good as an offensive line as TD. For all we know TD was another guy like Priest Holmes who was great in spurts and then his career just died because of injury...

Oh wait....lol.
Was Curtis Martin ever the best RB in the NFL for any year he played? Was he ever one of the top 2?

Why should a guy who was maybe the 4th best RB in the NFL for most of his years make it to the HOF just because he played for 10 years? What did he do that was special?

[CoachChaz]

Who is a Rams fan?

Lex

[Poet]

Was Curtis Martin ever the best RB in the NFL for any year he played? Was he ever one of the top 2?

Why should a guy who was maybe the 4th best RB in the NFL for most of his years make it to the HOF just because he played for 12 years? What did he do that was special?

http://www.nfl.com/players/curtismartin/profile?id=MAR543073

In 2004, 2001, and his first year in the league he certainly had an argument for.

Being a top five RB for 12 years is a lot harder than being the "best" RB in the league for three years.

If we are going to do the trivialize the opposition game fine, I can play that too.

TD was not that special because he had great blocking TEs, WRs, and an offensive line that is talked about as one of the greatest lines ever.

Now, I don't really believe all that above, but that statement holds just as much water as yours does.

[Thnikkaman]

Did he not rush for more yards? Was he not the guy with ten straight 1k yard seasons?

He did more on the football field. Curtis Martin replacing TD on the Broncos SB teams would probably have the same result.

See, he did more than "just stick around". And I know that he never had as good as an offensive line as TD. For all we know TD was another guy like Priest Holmes who was great in spurts and then his career just died because of injury...

Oh wait....lol.

2008 yards in 14 games. When did Martin do that?

[Poet]

2008 yards in 14 games. When did Martin do that?

Never.

When did TD rush for 14k yards in his career?

[Thnikkaman]

Never.

When did TD rush for 14k yards in his career?

I'm willing to bet he would have if someone didn't block into his knee.

I understand that this is an argument that neither of us can win. In my heart of hearts he is truly one of the greatest of all times. I don't care what you say about the team he played on. Many of those games (including the Superbowl), he could have sat out since he played with a Migraine. Its a shame that his career was shortened by a knee injury, but the only RB that was arguably better than him while he was playing was Berry Sanders.

I'm not saying Martin was a slouch. He was very good, but not better than TD, just luckier. And you can argue till your blue in the face with me that Martin was better, so we will have to agree to disagree.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Just to check my claim I looked it up.

1995 - Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin
1996 - Barry Sanders, TD, Jerome Bettis, Curtis Martin was 9th in yards
1997 - Barry Sanders, TD, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith, Curtis Martin was 6th in yards
1998 - TD, Jamal Anderson, G. Hearst, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin was 8th
1999 - Edge James, Curtis Martin, Stephen Davis, Emmitt Smith
2000 - Edge James, Robert Smith, Eddie George, Mike Anderson, CM was 12th
2001 - Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin, Stephen Davis, Ahman Green
2002 - Ricky Williams, L. Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, Clinton Portis, CM was 15th
2003 - Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, L. Tomlinson, D. McAlister, CM was 12th
2004 - Curtis Martin, Shaun Alexander, Corey Dillon, Edge James
2005 - Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, L. Johnson, C. Portis, CM was 26th

Curtis Martin had a few good years, but he was very inconsistent and never really grouped good years together where he could have owned an era. Follow that up with not doing anything worth of note in the playoffs and he really isn't that special.

He does have longevity though.


I would like the HOF to be about transcendent players, not a lifetime achievement award, but what the hell do I know.

[Poet]

Just to check my claim I looked it up.

1995 - Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin
1996 - Barry Sanders, TD, Jerome Bettis, Curtis Martin was 9th in yards
1997 - Barry Sanders, TD, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith, Curtis Martin was 6th in yards
1998 - TD, Jamal Anderson, G. Hearst, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin was 8th
1999 - Edge James, Curtis Martin, Stephen Davis, Emmitt Smith
2000 - Edge James, Robert Smith, Eddie George, Mike Anderson, CM was 12th
2001 - Priest Holmes, Curtis Martin, Stephen Davis, Ahman Green
2002 - Ricky Williams, L. Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, Clinton Portis, CM was 15th
2003 - Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, L. Tomlinson, D. McAlister, CM was 12th
2004 - Curtis Martin, Shaun Alexander, Corey Dillon, Edge James
2005 - Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, L. Johnson, C. Portis, CM was 26th

Curtis Martin had a few good years, but he was very inconsistent and never really grouped good years together where he could have owned an era. Follow that up with not doing anything worth of note in the playoffs and he really isn't that special.

He does have longevity though.


I would like the HOF to be about transcendent players, not a lifetime achievement award, but what the hell do I know.

You don't have ten straight 1k years in a row and not be special. The HOF is an award given to what is deemed great players.

You could very well argue that TD was so great in his short time that he absolutely proved he was dominant to the point where if his knee had not occured he would have been one of the greatest RBs ever.

I can see that. I think the HOF is such a damn joke these days that I would actually be happy if he got in. To me he is a borderline case. I am a casual Broncos fan, and you have a lot of guys who should be in the HOF who aren't. The fact that Atwater is not a HOFer makes me cringe. He's another borderline case that I would support.

The problem I have with guys like TD is simple; if I got him as my RB I get some good years and 3 tremendous years. If I get Curtis Martin then I get some great years and a lot of good years. If I have an offensive line like TD had Martin would be much better.

I don't think Martin is a better running back than TD. But, I know without a doubt he can stand the test of time. I get twice the yards with him, 30 more TDs, a lot more receptions than I would with TD.

Now, I would bet (and I know I cannot prove this) that if you put TD on Martin's teams TD would produce more. If you put Martin on TDs teams Martin's production would sky rocket, but, I would doubt if he had TD's numbers.

I also must point out that no single season puts a player in the HOF. Not even TD's 2k yard season. Jamal Lewis has a 2k yard season, and he is not a HOFer, and he never will be a HOFer.

Were I to make the argument for TD I would argue that collectively his career, while short, was one of the best short stretches of any player in NFL history. I would point to his great playoff career. I would not just go the standard route of going "he had 2k yards, put him in".

But once again, you get him for such a short time, and his line was so great, and his team was so great. It leaves me with enough doubt to say that he is not a HOFer.

I will say this on his behalf; the argument that Sayers is in and TD should be in is a good one. My response is that you are repeating a mistake. However, the precedent was set when they put Sayers in the HOF, and unless they remove him (which I believe they could do, but never has and never will be done) that precedent stands.
Oh, and by the way, Curtis Martin has rushed for the 4th most yards in NFL history. That feet by itself is just as impressive as anything TD has done.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Curtis Martin ran for over 14,000 yards and nearly had 18,000 yards from scrimmage. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Period.

[BigDaddyBronco]

You don't have ten straight 1k years in a row and not be special. The HOF is an award given to what is deemed great players.

You could very well argue that TD was so great in his short time that he absolutely proved he was dominant to the point where if his knee had not occured he would have been one of the greatest RBs ever.

I can see that. I think the HOF is such a damn joke these days that I would actually be happy if he got in. To me he is a borderline case. I am a casual Broncos fan, and you have a lot of guys who should be in the HOF who aren't. The fact that Atwater is not a HOFer makes me cringe. He's another borderline case that I would support.

The problem I have with guys like TD is simple; if I got him as my RB I get some good years and 3 tremendous years. If I get Curtis Martin then I get some great years and a lot of good years. If I have an offensive line like TD had Martin would be much better.

I don't think Martin is a better running back than TD. But, I know without a doubt he can stand the test of time. I get twice the yards with him, 30 more TDs, a lot more receptions than I would with TD.

Now, I would bet (and I know I cannot prove this) that if you put TD on Martin's teams TD would produce more. If you put Martin on TDs teams Martin's production would sky rocket, but, I would doubt if he had TD's numbers.

I also must point out that no single season puts a player in the HOF. Not even TD's 2k yard season. Jamal Lewis has a 2k yard season, and he is not a HOFer, and he never will be a HOFer.

Were I to make the argument for TD I would argue that collectively his career, while short, was one of the best short stretches of any player in NFL history. I would point to his great playoff career. I would not just go the standard route of going "he had 2k yards, put him in".

But once again, you get him for such a short time, and his line was so great, and his team was so great. It leaves me with enough doubt to say that he is not a HOFer.

I will say this on his behalf; the argument that Sayers is in and TD should be in is a good one. My response is that you are repeating a mistake. However, the precedent was set when they put Sayers in the HOF, and unless they remove him (which I believe they could do, but never has and never will be done) that precedent stands.
Oh, and by the way, Curtis Martin has rushed for the 4th most yards in NFL history. That feet by itself is just as impressive as anything TD has done.

I'm not saying Martin isn't worthy. I just think people get caught up on the accumulation of numbers due to longevity and miss out on the impact to the game a player makes. That is why Gale Sayers is in and it is why TD should be in.

To me the HOF voters should be looking at a few criteria...

Stats (things like yds/game, TD's/game, etc. as well as total numbers)
Playoff Stats (should be weighed a little higher than regular stats in my mind)
Awards (MVPs of regular season and playoffs, maybe Pro-Bowls)
Intangibles (how did he match up against other greats during his day, was he a major cog in his team making several playoff or SB runs, did he just play like a bad-ass)

Unfortunately they seem to get stuck on overall stats much of the time.

[Poet]

I'm not saying Martin isn't worthy. I just think people get caught up on the accumulation of numbers due to longevity and miss out on the impact to the game a player makes. That is why Gale Sayers is in and it is why TD should be in.

To me the HOF voters should be looking at a few criteria...

Stats (things like yds/game, TD's/game, etc. as well as total numbers)
Playoff Stats (should be weighed a little higher than regular stats in my mind)
Awards (MVPs of regular season and playoffs, maybe Pro-Bowls)
Intangibles (how did he match up against other greats during his day, was he a major cog in his team making several playoff or SB runs, did he just play like a bad-ass)

Unfortunately they seem to get stuck on overall stats much of the time.

Playoff stats fine. Playoff wins to me are overrated because you can ball out and have your team fail you miserably.

I think career stats should be weighed the heaviest because you go to the HOF based on your career.

Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes had simply amazing years. But, their careers are overall good, not great. But for a short time the impact they made was huge.

TD is different in the sense that his impact in that short time could very well be called unparalleled.

I don't have anything to add to the debate anymore.

It was a good debate. :salute:

[Thnikkaman]

I would also like to agree that Martian deserves to be in the HoF, and I want to add this. The NFL HoF should not be like the MLB HoF such that you can just compile stats and get in. No, Martin is not just a stat compiler, but the HoF is there to recognize greatness. Nobody is going to forget TD any time soon, HoF or not.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

You were barely 6 when he was drafted, not even 10 when TD was running for the Super Broncos, and according to you he sucks anyway. At least Lex obviously watched TD live and not as a child or on ESPN highlights. Therefore, your opinion is completely moot on the issue.

Somebody must have missed math, because I was definitely six when Davis was drafted. I guess Marvel Comics didn't teach you arithmetic?

[Thnikkaman]

Somebody must have missed math, because I was definitely six when Davis was drafted. I guess Marvel Comics didn't teach you arithmetic?

Shazam! = DC Comics. Please get your facts right before you insult someone.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Shazam! = DC Comics. Please get your facts right before you insult someone.

Like Rick Ross said, if people thinkin' they usin' their heads -- he gonna have to take 'em off. So, I'm not gonna play the Boss like that. Rosssssssss.

[Lonestar]

Basically youre telling me he had a short career. We've actually covered that already.


obviously my post was over your head so I will not try to do so again..

have a nice life..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'm sure he will have a nice life.

[lex]

I'm not saying Martin isn't worthy. I just think people get caught up on the accumulation of numbers due to longevity and miss out on the impact to the game a player makes. That is why Gale Sayers is in and it is why TD should be in.

To me the HOF voters should be looking at a few criteria...

Stats (things like yds/game, TD's/game, etc. as well as total numbers)
Playoff Stats (should be weighed a little higher than regular stats in my mind)
Awards (MVPs of regular season and playoffs, maybe Pro-Bowls)
Intangibles (how did he match up against other greats during his day, was he a major cog in his team making several playoff or SB runs, did he just play like a bad-ass)

Unfortunately they seem to get stuck on overall stats much of the time.

Except its not that way all the time. Lynn Swann gets in essentially for what he did in 4 games. He never led the league in a meaningful statistical category. Art Monk retired the all time leader in receptions, had 3 SB rings and had to sweat it out. Why? The most common excues was "he was good for a long time but never great."

[lex]

obviously my post was over your head so I will not try to do so again..

have a nice life..


No, sorry, it wasnt over my head. Again, it was something that was already covered. The fact that it was you that said it this time doesnt give any added dimension.

[CrazyHorse]

Sickest mofo eva