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View Full Version : BRANDON MARSHALL: Tread Lightly Josh McDaniels.



WARHORSE
06-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Is it safe to assume that Brandon and Cutler are in communicado with one another at this time?

At what level.........not really important.


What is important, is the career positions that each of these two players are in at the moment, as well as their existing history and friendship.

Cutler? He wants to make the league understand that Denver made a huge mistake screwing with him.

Brandon? He wants to get paid, hes in a contract year.


"Hows things in Denver BMarsh?"

Thats the question that Cutler asks Brandon in which the answer has considerable ramifications for the Denver Broncos.


How Brandon feels about the Broncos organization right now is of considerable importance to the team right now, and how they handle his contract situation is going to determine a lot.

Tread lightly Josh McDaniels.

Take off your Belichick BVDs and take a different viewpoint on this one. You do not have leverage with this man on a social level. And any other heavy handed leverage that you may choose to wield could very possibly determine your career from here forward, most definitely as the head coach of the Denver Broncos.

Theres an entire lockeroom watching right now and although things seem to be going well at this point, another lengthy drama is not going to be conducive to moving in the direction we're trying to move.


The Chicago Bears need a WR.

Badly.

If Brandon Marshall holds out, its going to have an impact on the Broncos.

Holding out means he isnt learning the offense. Holding out means hes not building a rapport with the QBs. Holding out means media questions for everyone to answer. Holding out means d-r-a-m-a.

A hold out, even if eventually resolved, will still have considerable effect on our team because Brandon is the number one receiver on the team, and if he doesnt know this offense, trying to learn it on the run is not going to lead to winning.


Brandon has considerable leverage when it comes to contractual issues.

Just listen to the words: "Trade Me" resonate through your head for a moment.

The Chicago Bears have a QB right now who very possibly has Brandons ear at this moment, but even if he doesnt, a holdout will undoubtedly lead to that very reality.

"Dude......COME TO CHICAGO! Me and you B!"

Cutler, after viewing and throwing to what he has on hand there in Chicago for a few practices is undoubtedly going to be screaming Brandons name into the ears of the Chicago media.


Personally, even if you look at it all from the view of 'If Brandon doesnt want to play for Denver-get rid of the punk', you still have to understand that theres an entire lockeroom asking themselves why we jettisoned two of the best players we have on the roster, in a so called effort to win.



A complete and total musing on my part, but one that is not only reasonably questioned, but also reasonably understandable......AND probable.



We need to make sure Marshall is here, whether he gets a new contract or not this year.


Tread lightly Josh McMakethemostofyouropportunities.


We dont want to assign your face recognition with another long, drug out Broncos offseason drama.

silkamilkamonico
06-02-2009, 05:50 PM
If there weren't legal concerns with Marshall, he would probably already have a new contract.

I'm sure all 32 teams are well aware that the next time Marshall gets in legal troubles, it's going to result in a huge contract for someone who isn't even playing a good majority of the games the next season, if any.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-02-2009, 05:52 PM
Since when was Brandon Marshall holding out?

atwater27
06-02-2009, 06:18 PM
Incentive, injury and legal issues should be adressed in a new contract. Otherwise trade him.

Simple Jaded
06-02-2009, 06:24 PM
"How Brandon feels about the Broncos organization right now is of considerable importance to the team right now".......I honestly don't believe that Warhorse, I don't think the Broncos care one way or the other.

For better or worse, this Franchise is about Josh McDaniels and only about Josh McDaniels, he's the Omnipotent Man in charge and he's going to do it The Patriot Way.

If Brandon Marshall makes a power play, and I think he will, he will lose.......and so will Broncos fans.

As pathetic as it is, this is Doogie's world, Brandon Marshall is just a squirrel tryin to get a nut.......

MadMax
06-02-2009, 06:30 PM
I'm not sure if I see it the same way. First off, I don't think BM and JC are that good of friends, they practiced together two years ago and thats the last time I heard of them doing anything together away from the Broncos. In addition to that BM was the first person to back McD and put down JC after the trade went down in that tv interview.

In addition Marshall to the bears really doesn't make sense, they already have one possible hold out drama queen who will be asking for a new contract soon(Cutler) so why would they sign another. And where would the money come from for the both of them when the coach has built the team around running the ball and defense.

Finally, BM just doesn't have the leverage JC did, our QB has to get along with the HC. But WR's are considered to be prima-donnas as a rule and we've got a more than capable replacement in Royal. BM also has no leverage because next year he'll be a restricted free agent and possibly remain one for the year after that depending on how the uncapped year rules work. Sooooo I hope he's just asking firmly but if he tries to hold out I say he can sit his ass in Orlando and go broke for all I care.

silkamilkamonico
06-02-2009, 06:53 PM
If Brandon Marshall makes a power play, and I think he will, he will lose.......and so will Broncos fans.

I disagree to a point. He's a star football player. He isn't our first star football player at the WR position, and he most certainly will not be our last.

I certainly won't miss the lack of success on the field that he helped contribute too the last 3 years, but he is a good football player and I like him.

Simple Jaded
06-02-2009, 07:15 PM
I disagree to a point. He's a star football player. He isn't our first star football player at the WR position, and he most certainly will not be our last.

I certainly won't miss the lack of success on the field that he helped contribute too the last 3 years, but he is a good football player and I like him.

You disagree that Broncos fans will lose in that situation?

There are bigger Brandon Marshall fans than you and I, I think the Broncos could justify not bending over backwards to retain BM, but if they lose him I do think it will have a negative impact on the perception of the Broncos with the fanbase, as well as with the NFL community.

I love watching Marshall play football, I like watching him more than most WR's in the game, and if the Broncos lose him I feel I will be losing out in the process, especially when looking at the rest of the WR's on the roster and when considering how hard it's been for Denver to finally find stability at the position (Other than Rod Smith).

Chad Jackson and Stokley may not even make the team, Scheffler may someday follow, Royal is a solid No2, Gaffney a career backup.......I know you're high on McKinley, but he's just a slot receiver in the making, imo. When people talk about all the receiving talent Denver has, they're really just talking about Marshall, Royal and Scheffler, imo, the rest are just role players.

When you look back at how long it took for Denver to finally find somebody other than Rod Smith, losing Brandon Marshall is going to suck.......

T.K.O.
06-02-2009, 07:18 PM
this all seems a bit pre-mature,every year (and especially a player with one year on their contract)players make subtle attemps to show their respective organizations that they want a new deal
their agents let it be known...blah blah blah
i think were all just a little "gun shy" after the cutler fiasco
i dont think mcD is a power hungry moron who is gonna try the -my way or the highway-trick
besides bowlen will not allow it,remember jay walked! we tried to get him to stay.
it is entirely possible that jay has contacted brandon about wanting him in chicago,but the bears cant do anything to try and get marshall and he knows it.
besides marshall knows he is now "the man" in denver and i bet he just wants to get paid what players with his prodution level get paid. and why not he earned it!

Nomad
06-02-2009, 07:19 PM
Sorry, offtopic, but cool avy TKO!!!!

T.K.O.
06-02-2009, 07:54 PM
Sorry, offtopic, but cool avy TKO!!!!

thats one of my new pics from my denver trip last week. thanx
i always wanted to see the lombardi's and finally got my chance.check out my album if you get a chance,the sig is me at mile high before the tour you can throw on some gear for photos

Lonestar
06-02-2009, 07:58 PM
MY perception is Marshall is holding out unless his ass is here next week at the mandatory camp happens then it is super official..


this moron is missing learning the playbook with his peers and getting class time with his coaches..

FWIW he has zero leverage if he wants a pay check this year.. and for that matter until there is a new CBA..

and with the threat of getting suspended with his next spitting on the side walk, he should be the one playing it very close to the vest..

WARHORSE
06-02-2009, 08:17 PM
"How Brandon feels about the Broncos organization right now is of considerable importance to the team right now".......I honestly don't believe that Warhorse, I don't think the Broncos care one way or the other.

For better or worse, this Franchise is about Josh McDaniels and only about Josh McDaniels, he's the Omnipotent Man in charge and he's going to do it The Patriot Way.

If Brandon Marshall makes a power play, and I think he will, he will lose.......and so will Broncos fans.

As pathetic as it is, this is Doogie's world, Brandon Marshall is just a squirrel tryin to get a nut.......


Geeez.

As pathetic as it WAS............lets hope McD learned a thing or two from dealing with Cutler. This is an entirely different issue, with all the same ramifications at stake.

Marshall doesnt play the QBack position, but after McJaygate, his issues are going to be magnified if things go bad.


Draw a line in the sand and dare a competitor to overstep it, and youre as dumb as dirt. I hope McD learned that, and that doesnt at all excuse Cutlers end or say that hes the sole reason things happened the way they did.

Lets state our position, but recognize Brandons desire to do well for himself.

From there, try to get things worked out.

WARHORSE
06-02-2009, 08:27 PM
this all seems a bit pre-mature,every year (and especially a player with one year on their contract)players make subtle attemps to show their respective organizations that they want a new deal
their agents let it be known...blah blah blah
i think were all just a little "gun shy" after the cutler fiasco
i dont think mcD is a power hungry moron who is gonna try the -my way or the highway-trick
besides bowlen will not allow it,remember jay walked! we tried to get him to stay.
it is entirely possible that jay has contacted brandon about wanting him in chicago,but the bears cant do anything to try and get marshall and he knows it.
besides marshall knows he is now "the man" in denver and i bet he just wants to get paid what players with his prodution level get paid. and why not he earned it!



Premature? Nope.

Brandon asked for a raise a couple days ago. The issue is on us.





MY perception is Marshall is holding out unless his ass is here next week at the mandatory camp happens then it is super official..


this moron is missing learning the playbook with his peers and getting class time with his coaches..

FWIW he has zero leverage if he wants a pay check this year.. and for that matter until there is a new CBA..

and with the threat of getting suspended with his next spitting on the side walk, he should be the one playing it very close to the vest..

Brandon doesnt have leverage? He has tons of leverage when you just traded your young QB away and were held hostage in the national media for months.

The strain of the Cutler/McD saga weighed heavily on Bowlen, and he admitted on the national media that his young head coach has made mistakes. Bowlen hates bad press, and the last thing he wants is attention for another drama.

Dont think these issues were lost on Josh and Xman either. They both swallowed HARD quite a few times during the entire situation.



At this point, its just a request for a raise. But the issues pointed out in the original post are real and the Broncos are assuredly dealing with this at this moment.

It isnt a hold out.............................yet.



And man, we dont want it to be.


Bowlen just fired a HOF head coach. He hired a boy wonder for his head coach.

Personally, the buck stops with him, and those are his own words.

I dont see him trying to dive back into the NFL season without his best QB and his best WR.

Especially not for draft picks.

Lonestar
06-02-2009, 08:37 PM
Premature? Nope.

Brandon asked for a raise a couple days ago. The issue is on us.






Brandon doesnt have leverage? He has tons of leverage when you just traded your young QB away and were held hostage in the national media for months.

The strain of the Cutler/McD saga weighed heavily on Bowlen, and he admitted on the national media that his young head coach has made mistakes. Bowlen hates bad press, and the last thing he wants is attention for another drama.

Dont think these issues were lost on Josh and Xman either. They both swallowed HARD quite a few times during the entire situation.



At this point, its just a request for a raise. But the issues pointed out in the original post are real and the Broncos are assuredly dealing with this at this moment.

It isnt a hold out.............................yet.



And man, we dont want it to be.


Bowlen just fired a HOF head coach. He hired a boy wonder for his head coach.

Personally, the buck stops with him, and those are his own words.

I dont see him trying to dive back into the NFL season without his best QB and his best WR.

Especially not for draft picks.


well I do not see it anything like you do.. We are holding all the cards he can't go any where but sit at home for the next 3 years UNLESS they get a new CBA.. if he sits at home, then he is making mortgage payment by flipping burgers at BK.. because he can't play football as a pro..

do you really think they can get any worse press than they already had?


So we will have to agree to disagree..

D1g1tal j1m
06-02-2009, 08:55 PM
We're DOOMMMMMMEDDDDD!!!!

WARHORSE
06-02-2009, 09:15 PM
well I do not see it anything like you do.. We are holding all the cards he can't go any where but sit at home for the next 3 years UNLESS they get a new CBA.. if he sits at home, then he is making mortgage payment by flipping burgers at BK.. because he can't play football as a pro..

do you really think they can get any worse press than they already had?


So we will have to agree to disagree..



Yeah, we disagree.

Holding all the cards? Not imo.


Anyone remember Ashley Lelie? He leveraged his way right out of town.

Marshall holds out till week 10 and gets fined. It wont matter cause unlike Lelie, Marshall is going to get paid wherever he goes. Not to mention hes going to be making twice what his salary was supposed to be due to incentive goals reached the past two seasons.

In week 10, he returns to work and Denver will have to pay him, even if they dont play him.

By week 10, what will our record look like after our QB, whether Orton or Simms, whos job it is to distribute the ball to playmakers, has one less playmaker.........er....scratch that........THE playmaker on our offense.

Does anyone really think the Broncos think their record will be just as good without Brandon as with him?

Every loss equals a climb in the draft chart btw...........oh, which belongs to the Seacucumbers.................our rookie headcoach traded away that pick for Alphonso Smith...............not to mention public opinion of the Broncos, Bowlen and McDaniels.

Do the Broncos care what the fans think of a rookie hc who brings losing into town after getting rid of Cutler, drafting the way he did(which I liked BTW), and cutting people out of the org? How about signing his best friend to a job in these tight economic times while loosing the Goodmans, cutting Leach, signing Paxton, etc, etc, etc?

Yeah, they care like crazy cause the fans buy things like jerseys....beer....jerseys.....beer........jerseys ......and more beer.

So I guess it doesnt really matter to Bowlen or Josh where that draft selection ends up, cause it isnt ours afterall........................yeah right.


Without Brandon, this is a different offense, PLEASE, no one try to argue that fact. He is the number one WR on our team, INCLUDING Eddie Royal.

He has earned at a minimum the courtesy for us to sit down and negotiate with him.


If Josh handles this badly.......which unfairly isnt all dependent upon him......theres going to be hell to pay.

WARHORSE
06-02-2009, 09:18 PM
We're DOOMMMMMMEDDDDD!!!!


D1g1t has a kid now.


I can tell.:coffee:




:beer:

Lonestar
06-03-2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah, we disagree.

Holding all the cards? Not imo.


Anyone remember Ashley Lelie? He leveraged his way right out of town.

Marshall holds out till week 10 and gets fined. It wont matter cause unlike Lelie, Marshall is going to get paid wherever he goes. Not to mention hes going to be making twice what his salary was supposed to be due to incentive goals reached the past two seasons.

In week 10, he returns to work and Denver will have to pay him, even if they dont play him.

By week 10, what will our record look like after our QB, whether Orton or Simms, whos job it is to distribute the ball to playmakers, has one less playmaker.........er....scratch that........THE playmaker on our offense.

Does anyone really think the Broncos think their record will be just as good without Brandon as with him?

Every loss equals a climb in the draft chart btw...........oh, which belongs to the Seacucumbers.................our rookie headcoach traded away that pick for Alphonso Smith...............not to mention public opinion of the Broncos, Bowlen and McDaniels.

Do the Broncos care what the fans think of a rookie hc who brings losing into town after getting rid of Cutler, drafting the way he did(which I liked BTW), and cutting people out of the org? How about signing his best friend to a job in these tight economic times while loosing the Goodmans, cutting Leach, signing Paxton, etc, etc, etc?

Yeah, they care like crazy cause the fans buy things like jerseys....beer....jerseys.....beer........jerseys ......and more beer.

So I guess it doesnt really matter to Bowlen or Josh where that draft selection ends up, cause it isnt ours afterall........................yeah right.


Without Brandon, this is a different offense, PLEASE, no one try to argue that fact. He is the number one WR on our team, INCLUDING Eddie Royal.

He has earned at a minimum the courtesy for us to sit down and negotiate with him.


If Josh handles this badly.......which unfairly isnt all dependent upon him......theres going to be hell to pay.


Oh I see it is more about Josh than anything else..

Did anyone say he was not a talent and we would be better off without him?..

just as in any labor dispute the leverage is with the COMPANY. they can always hold out longer than the workers can..

Not sure how many strikers or hold outs you have been around but I suspect not many..

The fans are still gonna come to the games and buy stuff it is in there nature they are not going to not come to watch the team EVEN if it stinks this year because they are fans of the team not jay or Marshall..

he can't play for anyone else, if he sits out he does not get paid..

If he comes back in week ten or what ever, all it does is signify he would HAVE NORMALLY BEEN as FA but not this year..

he will be a RFA that is all and he will have forfeited most of the 2.2 he was supposed to earn

I suspect he did not save any of the 2.2 he made last year to tide him over.. MORONS do not think that far ahead..

So now how does losing all the money for teh year get him holding all the cards.. when he is back to square one as a RFA until we get a new CBA..

BTW in the new scheme do you think he will be as BIG a deal as he was to jay last year? or just another WR to throw to IF he is open..

Elevation inc
06-03-2009, 02:54 AM
i think this whole thing is overblown.....i think the reason marshall is rehabbing elsewhere is because he doesnt want to be around the same medical staff that told him his hip was fine all last year, yet he found out in the off-season from a non football doctor he was jacked and need hip surgery. i think he is simply staying near medical staff he trusts, and away from the potential scrutiny of a medical staff that tells MCD he is good to go even if he isnt, people need to rember many medical personnel in pro sports tell coaches what they wanna here even if the player is sacrificed.


thats not a conspiracy either it happens all the way down to junior high and high school ball. Brandon is protecting himself. he subtly talked with MCD the right way, and is not missing anything important, he himself said he studies the playbook everyday.....people forget he sat out all off-season untill TC last year and still went to the pro bowl...he will be at the mandatroy stuff and is not holding out....he simply is with people he trust for rehab, while he is waiting to report for mandatory mini camps.....i think even marshall is smart enough to know his money will come when his actions off the field match his actions on it. i belive the broncos are declining comment becasue there is nothing to comment on...just the media digging for more drama like always

G_Money
06-03-2009, 10:11 AM
What he said.

Our crack medical team had him play the whole year on a hip that needed surgery, jeopardizing his big payday. He's a little pissed. Then they traded the QB who could get him the ball enough to get his big payday. Also annoying.

Would Brandon like real money on a reworked contract? Sure, especially since the CBA is screwing up his FA time and postponing his payday another year. Is he expecting it right now? I doubt it. The Broncos staff let him play on an injury similar to one that he watched end Rod Smith's career. He also saw what happened to Javon once he started having more leg issues and became an afterthought. Now he's going with his own guys for the surgery and rehab. I would too. How many groin strains/hamstring injuries/hip issues have we seen with the Broncos recently? Leg issues are not ones I'd want to be around the staff for.

McDaniels has already shown he has no loyalty to any guys who are not "his guys." Marshall's not one of his guys. I'm not sure why you'd expect loyalty from a player to a coaching staff that has none to him. Now Brandon's looking out for his future payday. He's not gonna sit out 10 games because he needs to show his hip is fine in order to get good offers as an RFA and try to force Denver to either give him a new contract or franchise him so he can start getting large amounts of green...or go to another team.

We'll see if Brandon is silly enough to think he can pull a Cutler and make a scene in order to get out and get his payday. With his suspension situation and his injury, that's not gonna happen. He has to keep his nose clean and perform on the field this year, and both of those things require playing, not a holdout.

But the latter also requires health, and a guy who went to a Pro Bowl last year with only one leg working correctly has to be hoping that with two healthy legs he can compensate for a lesser talent getting him the ball.

I expect him to be here for the mandatories, without issue.

~G

Northman
06-03-2009, 10:24 AM
Honestly, seeing how McD hates drama queens (Jay Cutler) if Brandon makes any noise that he doesnt like he will just dump him. McDaniels is the big chief so either the players are on board or their not. As far as Brandon's contract? There really hasnt been that much noise about as Brandon isnt holding out so any speculation at this point is much ado about nothing. I think it should be pretty clear by now that McD could care less about players who arent of the "team" concept. If Brandon wants to play elsewhere im sure McD can find him a home.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Elevation and G hit this right on the head. The Broncos medical and rehab staff is by far one of the most absymal in the NFL. Greek and the like, are the same guys who observed players like Willie M., Paul T. and Darius W. at the combine yet and deemed their injuries to be nothing of consequence -- and for the last two we know how that played out, and with Middlebrooks -- his broken foot forever inhibited his ability to play well at the corner spot.

It is the same Broncos medical staff who putzed around with injuries to former sound players like Trevor Pryce and Al Wilson; whose careers and time spent here in Denver were likely shortened for the poor decision making in this regard. (Especially in regards to Pryce's back injury; which was diagnosed lightly, hardly treated and he was pushed back onto the field causing further damage.)

Considering the history of other lower limb injuries like G had mentioned, it is quite obvious as to why Brandon thought it was in his best interest to seek the advice and efforts from professionals who can adequately diagnose and treat the problem. I don't see this as Brandon holding out or being selfish at all. He recognizes a poor track record and history with the Broncos medical staff failing to address injury related concerns in a timely and fashionable matter, morever the ability to treat them. I think he wants to be in tip-top shape so he can come in here and help us win.

There was an article on PFT the other day about players playing through injuries and all that and how the players are now speaking up about these instances and taking matters into their own hands. With Marshall, I think this is the case along with what I stated above -- and his absence from passing camp isn't indicative of him wanting to hold out or be selfish.

weazel
06-03-2009, 01:40 PM
tread lightly? WTF?

if you have to tread lightly around one of your employees, get rid of the employee. See ya Brandon, have fun beating your girlfriend and dropping 20% of the balls that get thrown to you. Hope you dont get in another fight with your TV stand, would hate to see you rip the tendons out of your other arm or maybe your leg.

tread lightly... LMAO, how pathetic

Lonestar
06-03-2009, 01:44 PM
well considering he had surgery several months ago and now it is only about rehabbing, his missing a chance to be here with his peers, coaches and setting in on all of the camp even if it is in class or on the sideline are IMO going to cost him..

since is is obvious through his actions over the years he is not the brightest bulb in the room he needs all of the learning time he can get with his team..

Whether he is sending a message or not, who knows for sure? But that is how I see it..


BTW G~ a great different perspective on his motives and why he can't afford to hold out.. one that no one else saw..

weazel
06-03-2009, 01:47 PM
well considering he had surgery several months ago and now it is only about rehabbing, his missing a chance to be here with his peers, coaches and setting in on all of the camp even if it is in class or on the sideline are IMO going to cost him..

since is is obvious through his actions over the years he is not the brightest bulb in the room he needs all of the learning time he can get with his team..

Whether he is sending a message or not, who knows for sure? But that is how I see it..


BTW G~ a great different perspective on his motives and why he can't afford to hold out.. one that no one else saw..

My thinking is his hand is still numb, and now his hip is screwed. He doesnt know if he will be as good as he should have been and wants to get paid before showing anyone his diminished skills

broncofanatic1987
06-03-2009, 02:36 PM
It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that McDaniels should tread lightly when it comes to Marshall. He has already proved that he will not kiss butt to a player.

Marshall doesn't have any leverage with the Broncos unless they are desperate to keep him. Even still, they don't have to offer him a contract this season. If no new CBA is established, he will be a restricted free agent. If a new CBA is established, they can simply franchise tag him. Either way, they can buy time for him to prove he can stay out of trouble, which he has been unable to do so far.

WARHORSE
06-03-2009, 02:48 PM
Oh I see it is more about Josh than anything else..

Did anyone say he was not a talent and we would be better off without him?..

just as in any labor dispute the leverage is with the COMPANY. they can always hold out longer than the workers can..

Not sure how many strikers or hold outs you have been around but I suspect not many..

The fans are still gonna come to the games and buy stuff it is in there nature they are not going to not come to watch the team EVEN if it stinks this year because they are fans of the team not jay or Marshall..

he can't play for anyone else, if he sits out he does not get paid..

If he comes back in week ten or what ever, all it does is signify he would HAVE NORMALLY BEEN as FA but not this year..

he will be a RFA that is all and he will have forfeited most of the 2.2 he was supposed to earn

I suspect he did not save any of the 2.2 he made last year to tide him over.. MORONS do not think that far ahead..

So now how does losing all the money for teh year get him holding all the cards.. when he is back to square one as a RFA until we get a new CBA..

BTW in the new scheme do you think he will be as BIG a deal as he was to jay last year? or just another WR to throw to IF he is open..



This obviously means a lot to you.


It doesnt to me.


We disagree.


Marshall has asked for a raise.

We will respond.

So will he.


Then things will play out.


Im hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

:coffee:

WARHORSE
06-03-2009, 02:51 PM
tread lightly? WTF?

if you have to tread lightly around one of your employees, get rid of the employee. See ya Brandon, have fun beating your girlfriend and dropping 20% of the balls that get thrown to you. Hope you dont get in another fight with your TV stand, would hate to see you rip the tendons out of your other arm or maybe your leg.

tread lightly... LMAO, how pathetic


Yer mama is pathetic.:coffee:

WARHORSE
06-03-2009, 03:01 PM
What he said.

Our crack medical team had him play the whole year on a hip that needed surgery, jeopardizing his big payday. He's a little pissed. Then they traded the QB who could get him the ball enough to get his big payday. Also annoying.

Would Brandon like real money on a reworked contract? Sure, especially since the CBA is screwing up his FA time and postponing his payday another year. Is he expecting it right now? I doubt it. The Broncos staff let him play on an injury similar to one that he watched end Rod Smith's career. He also saw what happened to Javon once he started having more leg issues and became an afterthought. Now he's going with his own guys for the surgery and rehab. I would too. How many groin strains/hamstring injuries/hip issues have we seen with the Broncos recently? Leg issues are not ones I'd want to be around the staff for.

McDaniels has already shown he has no loyalty to any guys who are not "his guys." Marshall's not one of his guys. I'm not sure why you'd expect loyalty from a player to a coaching staff that has none to him. Now Brandon's looking out for his future payday. He's not gonna sit out 10 games because he needs to show his hip is fine in order to get good offers as an RFA and try to force Denver to either give him a new contract or franchise him so he can start getting large amounts of green...or go to another team.

We'll see if Brandon is silly enough to think he can pull a Cutler and make a scene in order to get out and get his payday. With his suspension situation and his injury, that's not gonna happen. He has to keep his nose clean and perform on the field this year, and both of those things require playing, not a holdout.

But the latter also requires health, and a guy who went to a Pro Bowl last year with only one leg working correctly has to be hoping that with two healthy legs he can compensate for a lesser talent getting him the ball.

I expect him to be here for the mandatories, without issue.

~G



I guess his request for a raise came with a 'if you want to' speech at the end of it.

Raise 'requests' are player/agent business moves. A player is looking out for himself, just like the orgs.

Let me tell you how Brandon and his agent are explaining his injury to the Broncos: "In spite of your misdiagnosis of my hip, I played through the pain for you. As well, I played at considerable personal risk for you since I just watched Rods career come to an end with the same injury. Not only did I play on a bum hip, I played to the tune of 104 catches, a career high BTW, 1265 yards and 6 TDs for you. Just think what Im going to be when Im healthy. I played for you at risk, now you accept some risk as well. I deserve to be paid more, my performance dictates that."


And the truth is, it does.


And if you think no one will reach for Brandon Marshall from the other 31 teams, then I think you should look to the near past.

Marshall is young. Marshall is a stud. Studs mean winning.

BroncoTech
06-03-2009, 03:38 PM
I disagree that the WR position is an impact position in this league. They are all expendable. That pretty much makes Brandon replaceable. I think he should play out his contract and then decide what to do.

powderaddict
06-03-2009, 04:34 PM
He's coming off of a hip surgery, had problems catching due to his injury the previous off season, and is very close to a long-term suspension and has shown that he still has issues keeping out of trouble - If charges were filed for the event that happened in Atlanta (something DID happen, and this after having a 3 game suspension reduced to 1 game) He could have been looking at missing quite a few games - I think he needs the Broncos right now more than they need him.

Brandon needs to prove to the other 31 teams that he is worthy of their consideration. In the current climate, and how many times teams have been bit by taking a chance on a player, teams are going to be leary about paying Marshall the kind of money he wants to get.

WARHORSE
06-04-2009, 12:39 AM
He's coming off of a hip surgery, had problems catching due to his injury the previous off season, and is very close to a long-term suspension and has shown that he still has issues keeping out of trouble - If charges were filed for the event that happened in Atlanta (something DID happen, and this after having a 3 game suspension reduced to 1 game) He could have been looking at missing quite a few games - I think he needs the Broncos right now more than they need him.

Brandon needs to prove to the other 31 teams that he is worthy of their consideration. In the current climate, and how many times teams have been bit by taking a chance on a player, teams are going to be leary about paying Marshall the kind of money he wants to get.




He just caught 104 passes in 15 games.

Theres nothing to prove ability wise.

As for off the field issues, hes simply going to say, put in protective clauses geared towards his behavior. If I screw up, you get your money back.

Personally, Im good with that.

WARHORSE
06-04-2009, 12:46 AM
I disagree that the WR position is an impact position in this league. They are all expendable. That pretty much makes Brandon replaceable. I think he should play out his contract and then decide what to do.



Im not trying to kill your buzz BT.............but that is one of the worst football comments Ive ever heard to date.

Especially since you said it so seriously.

WRs arent impact players and all are expendable...................:tsk:


On top of that........people saluted you for it.:shocked:





WRs arent impact players and all are expendable...................:tsk:


Im gonna have to keep reading that one.:eek:



That one is going to keep me up at night for awhile.:shocked:











Im going to bed and stare at the ceiling. I cant take this.

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 12:51 AM
I disagree that the WR position is an impact position in this league. They are all expendable. That pretty much makes Brandon replaceable. I think he should play out his contract and then decide what to do.

tell that to the new york giants, jacksonville jaguars, titans, and dolphins before this year. you need a number 1 wideout to succede in this league, period!!!!

its not the only piece to the puzzle, but without a number 1 wideout you wont go far. its just truth!!!

Simple Jaded
06-04-2009, 12:56 AM
Longsnapper > WideReceiver.......sounds simple enough.......

Shazam!
06-04-2009, 01:17 AM
tell that to the new york giants, jacksonville jaguars, titans, and dolphins before this year. you need a number 1 wideout to succede in this league, period!!!!

its not the only piece to the puzzle, but without a number 1 wideout you wont go far. its just truth!!!

Losing Eddie in the MNF opener to the NYG in 2001 was devastating and they never recovered from that missing piece.

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 01:25 AM
its true^^^^^^


without a number 1 you are screwed, that why everyone is knocking th bears WR core right now.....lol

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 01:40 AM
FROM MCD REGARDING MARSHALLS REHAB.............SERIOUSLY FOLKS STOP FUSSING HE WILL REPORT FOR MANDATORY CAMP.

McDaniels said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."

BroncoTech
06-04-2009, 02:26 AM
No it's true, there may be 4 or 5 WR's in some formations, you might make a TE or RB a WR for that play. Your number one receiver is the one that's open. Impact players are left tackle , defensive end, Quarterback and maybe MLB. This is a game played in the trenches.

Top receivers for 2008-2009 projected
http://www.nflchoice.com/Top_NFL_Wide_Receivers_2008-2009.php

Closer to reality
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/100653-2008-nfl-season-top-10-wide-receivers#page/9

Top receivers at Detroit, Green Bay, Houston and a few other teams that didn't do so well.

I miss Eddy Mac too, but we made the playoffs without him. We played this game where BM was our #1 receiver all last season, Jay forced it to him if he was open or not. This is not a balanced attack.

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 02:33 AM
No it's true, there may be 4 or 5 WR's in some formations, you might make a TE or RB a WR for that play. Your number one receiver is the one that's open. Impact players are left tackle , defensive end, Quarterback and maybe MLB. This is a game played in the trenches.

Top receivers for 2008-2009 projected
http://www.nflchoice.com/Top_NFL_Wide_Receivers_2008-2009.php

Closer to reality
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/100653-2008-nfl-season-top-10-wide-receivers#page/9

Top receivers at Detroit, Green Bay, Houston and a few other teams that didn't do so well.

I miss Eddy Mac too, but we made the playoffs without him. We played this game where BM was our #1 receiver all last season, Jay forced it to him if he was open or not. This is not a balanced attack.


you need a number 1 wideout to win playoff games and have a good chance at the SB....period!!!!!

basically we could have made the playoffs last year with a 27th ranked overall defense, does that mean we dont need defense.....lol

BroncoTech
06-04-2009, 03:18 AM
You need to spread it around. If you have a soft handed oaf of a guy named house you should throw a couple tackle eligable plays for touchdowns. You have a whole fleet of receivers and there's always a few Jerry Rices or Lynne Swans, even guys that do a lot of blow like Michael Irvin.

Houston had the #1 WR last year, they don't even scare me. I'd trade BM for a real NT in a heart beat, but you'll never find that rich of a deal in the NFL. For every Jerry Rice there's a WR that's cancer to his team. Damn prima-donnas.

Let's not even mention Cincy and their fleet of talented receivers spoiled by their off field and on field antics.

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 05:24 AM
You need to spread it around. If you have a soft handed oaf of a guy named house you should throw a couple tackle eligable plays for touchdowns. You have a whole fleet of receivers and there's always a few Jerry Rices or Lynne Swans, even guys that do a lot of blow like Michael Irvin.

Houston had the #1 WR last year, they don't even scare me. I'd trade BM for a real NT in a heart beat, but you'll never find that rich of a deal in the NFL. For every Jerry Rice there's a WR that's cancer to his team. Damn prima-donnas.

Let's not even mention Cincy and their fleet of talented receivers spoiled by their off field and on field antics.


well thats funny considering the 9 of the last ten SB winners all had a number 1 WR....

1999 Broncos- Rod Smith
2000 Ravens- Shannon Sharpe
2001 Rams- Isaac bruce
2002 Patriots- Troy Brown
2003 Bucaneers- Keyshawn Johnson
2004 Patriots- David Givens
2005 Patriots- Dieon Branch
2006 Steelers- Hines Ward
2007 Colts- Marvin Harrison
2008 Giants- plaxico buress
2009 Steelers- Hines ward

funny how the last ten SB winners all had a number 1 go to WR, the only exception being baltimore who threw to there TE sharpe, but they also had the best defense the last 2 decades have ever seen.


if you wanna win the SB...perhaps you need a # 1 wideout.....

Hawgdriver
06-04-2009, 06:04 AM
good thread WH

someone get Lelie or JWalk to text BM about hissy-fit success rates

BM is an immature but studly WR and I love to watch him play, just like that other guy that left. I'm on board with this disciplined football-player organization McD is building, I can live with B Marsh not in the picture, but so much better with him in it. Until this escalates I have to believe it's just the best thing for everyone the way it is going down so far.

weazel
06-04-2009, 01:21 PM
Yer mama is pathetic.:coffee:

nice comeback, Mr. Wizard

BroncoTech
06-04-2009, 01:51 PM
1999 Broncos- Rod Smith
2000 Ravens- Shannon Sharpe
2001 Rams- Isaac bruce
2002 Patriots- Troy Brown
2003 Bucaneers- Keyshawn Johnson
2004 Patriots- David Givens
2005 Patriots- Dieon Branch
2006 Steelers- Hines Ward
2007 Colts- Marvin Harrison
2008 Giants- plaxico buress
2009 Steelers- Hines ward

The list I posted doesn't show Hines Ward in the top 10, how is he number one? Are you trying to make my point for me? You probably would have given the big money to Plaxico Buress too, not knowing you were shooting yourself in the foot, literally.

There's already a case where a known student of the game, Garry Kubiak could have drafted what the fans consider a an impact player in Reggie Bush or take the less sexy defensive end Mario Williams.

My opinion is RBs are only impact players if the line makes a hole for them and WRs are only good if the QB gets the ball to them. The fans don't watch the trenches, coaches do.

T.K.O.
06-04-2009, 02:00 PM
marshall has done nothing but publicly support the new staff,and workout as needed this offseason,i think he is ahead of schedule on his recovery from surgury,so.....what? why all the speculation about a holdout?
coach says all is well,.....he's our guy...........uh oh !
but seriously he's under contract and has to impress the shyt out of goodell
he wont be any trouble,however we should give him a fat new deal to keep him away from cutler next year (because i dont want cutler to win a sb in chicago);)

T.K.O.
06-04-2009, 02:09 PM
The list I posted doesn't show Hines Ward in the top 10, how is he number one? Are you trying to make my point for me? You probably would have given the big money to Plaxico Buress too, not knowing you were shooting yourself in the foot, literally.

There's already a case where a known student of the game, Garry Kubiak could have drafted what the fans consider a an impact player in Reggie Bush or take the less sexy defensive end Mario Williams.

My opinion is RBs are only impact players if the line makes a hole for them and WRs are only good if the QB gets the ball to them. The fans don't watch the trenches, coaches do.

well marshall is the best example against your point. as his YAC is his greatest asset and thats where he makes his biggest "impact"
its guys like him with a "i will not be stopped" attitude that make the biggest impact of all on a team.
one play where a reciever could and should be stopped short of a 1st down ,but smashes through for it ( the same can be said about a rb)can change the momentum of an entire game.
of coarse any position can impact the game that way.but i fail to see why the wr should be considered more "replaceable"
when history has shown that consistantly productive recievers are almost as rare as qb's,and there is no way you can say joe montana would have been "joe montana" w/o jerry rice.(and yes jerry rice would have been great w/o montana)

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 02:13 PM
FROM MCD REGARDING MARSHALLS REHAB.............SERIOUSLY FOLKS STOP FUSSING HE WILL REPORT FOR MANDATORY CAMP.

McDaniels said he is not concerned that Marshall is rehabilitating from his hip surgery in Orlando.

"Rehab is going fine. He's doing everything he's supposed to be doing, everything he could be doing," McDaniels said. "None of our injured players are out here. That's standard procedure, so he wouldn't be out here either. We're excited about the opportunity to get him into the offense when he's healthy."

what you did not get out of that comment was while they may not be out on the field practicing I'll bet most are there LEARNING the new system with their teammates.. setting in the meetings asking questions and being part of the team.. doing what ever rehab is necessary after the practices..
while standing on the sidelines and absorbing every thing they can..

the only one not "getting it" is BM..

Do you really think he was not just playing nice with Marshall..


while he is scheduled to make 2.2 this year that is not just for showing up on game day.. dumb de dumb dumb.. what a maroon BM is..

Elevation inc
06-04-2009, 02:38 PM
what you did not get out of that comment was while they may not be out on the field practicing I'll bet most are there LEARNING the new system with their teammates.. setting in the meetings asking questions and being part of the team.. doing what ever rehab is necessary after the practices..
while standing on the sidelines and absorbing every thing they can..

the only one not "getting it" is BM..

Do you really think he was not just playing nice with Marshall..


while he is scheduled to make 2.2 this year that is not just for showing up on game day.. dumb de dumb dumb.. what a maroon BM is..

are you serious? can you prove ryan torain is in denver learning the playbook???? or the other injured players? can you prove that they are nose deep in the system watching and studying right now?

im sorry bro, but i disagree, you must be god if you can tell that the players are doing this especially since MCd states specifically that all the injured players arent there, and thats normal...during his press conference on the main website.

I get that you have reservations about b-marsh, but i dont think its fair to paint him as a villian simply becasue is rehabbing in orlando away from doctors and trainers that told him all last season his hip was good to go....if i was him and or even if i was brian dawkins one of the best leaders in the NFL....if i had a injury that required surgery becasue of inattention by a paid medical staff, i would avoid them at all costs if possible, especially when the freaking passing camp aint even mandatory and the other players arent there that injured either.....

seriously i like what you post here an respect ya but there is major hypocrisy here, trashing MCD bashers for the sky is falling mantra and then knocking bmarsh for not showing to a NON mandatory passing camp, to do correct rehab and get healthy for next year, like all the other inujured players, people are forgetting about, come on now.....your better than that...the sky is falling the sky is falling.....lol


seriously there is no proof this is even about a contract....all it is is blindless specualtion...

FACTS!!!!

1. Bmarsh talked to MCD about a raise
2. Bmarsh was at the first offseason practices with the other injured players as required and will be at minicamp as required
3. Bmarsh is in orlando to rehab with doctors he trusts
4. Bmarsh is not required to be at passing camp like all the injured players as stated by MCD
5. The media and the DP bridged the contract angle and orlando, not BMARSH, MCD or the denver FO...
6. Is the sky really falling here to???? NO:D

Ravage!!!
06-04-2009, 02:38 PM
its not dumb if he finds a way to move out and get a bigger contract. Just because denver isn't smart enough to sign that kind of WR talent, doesn't mean every other team in the NFL wouldn't be.

silkamilkamonico
06-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Denver's cautious, and very smart not to sign a guy to huge extended contract who's 1 strike away from possibly missing the entire season. Let him play out his contract, and then decide there if he's worth it.

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 03:10 PM
are you serious? can you prove ryan torain is in denver learning the playbook???? or the other injured players? can you prove that they are nose deep in the system watching and studying right now?

im sorry bro, but i disagree, you must be god if you can tell that the players are doing this especially since MCd states specifically that all the injured players arent there, and thats normal...during his press conference on the main website.

I get that you have reservations about b-marsh, but i dont think its fair to paint him as a villian simply becasue is rehabbing in orlando away from doctors and trainers that told him all last season his hip was good to go....if i was him and or even if i was brian dawkins one of the best leaders in the NFL....if i had a injury that required surgery becasue of inattention by a paid medical staff, i would avoid them at all costs if possible, especially when the freaking passing camp aint even mandatory and the other players arent there that injured either.....

seriously i like what you post here an respect ya but there is major hypocrisy here, trashing MCD bashers for the sky is falling mantra and then knocking bmarsh for not showing to a NON mandatory passing camp, to do correct rehab and get healthy for next year, like all the other inujured players, people are forgetting about, come on now.....your better than that...the sky is falling the sky is falling.....lol


seriously there is no proof this is even about a contract....all it is is blindless specualtion...

FACTS!!!!

1. Bmarsh talked to MCD about a raise
2. Bmarsh was at the first offseason practices with the other injured players as required and will be at minicamp as required3. Bmarsh is in orlando to rehab with doctors he trusts
4. Bmarsh is not required to be at passing camp like all the injured players as stated by MCD
5. The media and the DP bridged the contract angle and orlando, not BMARSH, MCD or the denver FO...
6. Is the sky really falling here to???? NO:D

that is what jay said also..

facts are he is not here and is in where ever to rehab something that could be done here the heavy lifting was done by the doctor and since th doctor is not at the rehab sessions that can be done any where..

he chose to no be here after sending Josh the message he is looking for a new contract..

this does not take a brain surgeon to figure out why he is not here..

Josh is letting it ride for now and expects him for the mini camp next week lets see if he makes a huge mistake by not being here..

Now I like BM but he needs to grow up and see the hand writing on the wall.. NO MORE screw ups and be there when the coach has all the other players there.. Even if you can't be on the field.. they did not bring all these folks in so they could be here but to learn very complex new scheme on both sides of the field..

Do you really think the BM can make up these 10-12 days of "voluntary" session ins a few days before training camp starts.. If it was not uber complex they would have finished by now and having drinks at the 19 hole..

is the sky falling no but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping this camp..


as for the broncos doctors and trainers.. what happened under mike may not be happening now.. and frankly any one that has a 60 million dollar investment in someone is not going the ride that horse till he drops..

did anyone ever think that the doctor in Fla just may and a monetary motive for cutting on him? and that is was absolutely neccessary?

G_Money
06-04-2009, 03:30 PM
as for the broncos doctors and trainers.. what happened under mike may not be happening now.. and frankly any one that has a 60 million dollar investment in someone is not going the ride that horse till he drops..

did anyone ever think that the doctor in Fla just may and a monetary motive for cutting on him? and that is was absolutely neccessary?

Last year:


I have stated before that strength and conditioning does not seem to be working in DEN.

I think it goes beyond the beast maybe we need to be looking at tuten.. Who the is the beasts brain child..

What's changed? If it's the same medical guys, then it's likely to be the same problem. If I was Brandon, I wouldn't risk it. Hip, groin and hamstring injuries abounded last year, and guys with legit injuries like Brandon were told to push through it.

I'd be doing my rehab elsewhere.

If he doesn't show up for mandatory camp, I'm more than willing to call him an idiot.

We're not at that point yet, and the Broncos track record with "strength and conditioning" or rehab is pretty abysmal recently. It's his future career - I don't have any problem with him trying to prolong it with a solution not found on the Broncos staff.

~G

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 04:16 PM
Last year:



What's changed? If it's the same medical guys, then it's likely to be the same problem. If I was Brandon, I wouldn't risk it. Hip, groin and hamstring injuries abounded last year, and guys with legit injuries like Brandon were told to push through it.

I'd be doing my rehab elsewhere.

If he doesn't show up for mandatory camp, I'm more than willing to call him an idiot.

We're not at that point yet, and the Broncos track record with "strength and conditioning" or rehab is pretty abysmal recently. It's his future career - I don't have any problem with him trying to prolong it with a solution not found on the Broncos staff.

~G


Hmmmmm what is different the HC and GM.. I believe that josh Etal will put more emphasis on being in condition and hitting than mike did.. mike blew hundreds of millions on wasted dead cap money.. I do not think that new guy will have that luxury.. and being the new guy has his staff watching out more for getting the guys in shape for how he wants them to play..


Besides are you suggesting to me that Dove Vally is the only rehab place in town?

Hey I'm old school when the new boss is in town I try to stay as close as I can to figure out how he wants things done.. but color me stupid for wanting to keep my job..

I think BM will miss the min camp with this malarky, he talks to much to jay not to..

G_Money
06-04-2009, 05:11 PM
Actually JR, the best sports rehab places are in Florida and AZ. Denver doesn't have the best rehab, no.

Having worked in the industry, I can at least tell you that much. The best surgeons and rehab places tend to be in climates with lots of old people who need rehab, and places where there are year-round sports involving lots of college and pro teams. Baseball teams hold spring training in AZ and FL. College sports are big in AZ and FL. Old people live in AZ and FL.

And that's where the better rehab places are.

~G

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 05:42 PM
Actually JR, the best sports rehab places are in Florida and AZ. Denver doesn't have the best rehab, no.

Having worked in the industry, I can at least tell you that much. The best surgeons and rehab places tend to be in climates with lots of old people who need rehab, and places where there are year-round sports involving lots of college and pro teams. Baseball teams hold spring training in AZ and FL. College sports are big in AZ and FL. Old people live in AZ and FL.

And that's where the better rehab places are.

~G


yet I'm also guessing at this point they are not doing anything earth shattering with his rehab either.. from my past experience it gets real mundane after the first month or so..

but I've not had hip work done either.. YET..

G_Money
06-04-2009, 07:15 PM
Well, the question is how to get back explosiveness, not just functionality. When you have all those speed camps and specialist training facilities (lots of those in FL too...) the idea is to reach the apex of what your body can do, not just allow you to walk to the mailbox without a cane.

Rehab is mundane, boring work, but once the strength is back then the idea is to get back to being dominant. I'm really curious about what he's doing - I mean, the guy who did his surgery is here in CO and did the surgery 2 months ago. So he's in the slogging-through-it part of rehab right now.

I hope whomever he's doing it with is good. He got hip surgery from the guy who did A-Rod's, and that turned out pretty well thus far it seems. He's in Orlando, haven of old people and sports rehabbers.

I assume he's partly using his Orlando trip to make a point - but I also hope he's taking full advantage of one of the exceedingly reputable facilities down there and not just lifting weights in his basement.

~G

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 10:08 PM
Well, the question is how to get back explosiveness, not just functionality. When you have all those speed camps and specialist training facilities (lots of those in FL too...) the idea is to reach the apex of what your body can do, not just allow you to walk to the mailbox without a cane.

Rehab is mundane, boring work, but once the strength is back then the idea is to get back to being dominant. I'm really curious about what he's doing - I mean, the guy who did his surgery is here in CO and did the surgery 2 months ago. So he's in the slogging-through-it part of rehab right now.

I hope whomever he's doing it with is good. He got hip surgery from the guy who did A-Rod's, and that turned out pretty well thus far it seems. He's in Orlando, haven of old people and sports rehabbers.

I assume he's partly using his Orlando trip to make a point - but I also hope he's taking full advantage of one of the exceedingly reputable facilities down there and not just lifting weights in his basement.

~G


I thought the whole reason he was in FL doing the rehab was to be near his doctor that did the surgery .. now this puts another light onto this story all together.. tweddle de tweddle DUMB..

Lonestar
06-04-2009, 10:11 PM
fe fi fo fum
I smell the stench of a sports agent
in this one..

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 02:16 AM
that is what jay said also..

facts are he is not here and is in where ever to rehab something that could be done here the heavy lifting was done by the doctor and since th doctor is not at the rehab sessions that can be done any where..

he chose to no be here after sending Josh the message he is looking for a new contract..

this does not take a brain surgeon to figure out why he is not here..

Josh is letting it ride for now and expects him for the mini camp next week lets see if he makes a huge mistake by not being here..

Now I like BM but he needs to grow up and see the hand writing on the wall.. NO MORE screw ups and be there when the coach has all the other players there.. Even if you can't be on the field.. they did not bring all these folks in so they could be here but to learn very complex new scheme on both sides of the field..

Do you really think the BM can make up these 10-12 days of "voluntary" session ins a few days before training camp starts.. If it was not uber complex they would have finished by now and having drinks at the 19 hole..

is the sky falling no but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping this camp..


as for the broncos doctors and trainers.. what happened under mike may not be happening now.. and frankly any one that has a 60 million dollar investment in someone is not going the ride that horse till he drops..

did anyone ever think that the doctor in Fla just may and a monetary motive for cutting on him? and that is was absolutely neccessary?


good rebuttal points, but the trainers and doctors are still the same.....and i dont see you alling out the other players that arent at passing camp learning the so called system either.

marshall missed plenty of time last year, and a new offense was installed last year, but he still came back in a very short time with a jacked hand and a hip injury to catch 104 balls and make the pro bowl....seriously....the contract spin is people trying to put 2 and 2 together....it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out its a long off-season as well, and that people will look for any angle to spice up the off-season even if there isnt one to spice up....

and using cutler is lame he is gone becasue he pissed of bowlen not becasue of missing voulntary offseason work.....

i agree with letting marshall play out his contract, before paying him...its smart but i dont agree with people speculating a link between him rehabbing in orlando and a holdout when there is no valid proof of that.

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 02:20 AM
The list I posted doesn't show Hines Ward in the top 10, how is he number one? Are you trying to make my point for me? You probably would have given the big money to Plaxico Buress too, not knowing you were shooting yourself in the foot, literally.

There's already a case where a known student of the game, Garry Kubiak could have drafted what the fans consider a an impact player in Reggie Bush or take the less sexy defensive end Mario Williams.

My opinion is RBs are only impact players if the line makes a hole for them and WRs are only good if the QB gets the ball to them. The fans don't watch the trenches, coaches do.

what i am getting at is out side of david givens(850yds) and shannon sharpe (880 yds) all those recivers listed had over a 1000 yds...they were the go to guy in the offense the number 1 target.....the number 1 WR.......

my point is you need a go to guy, im not talking about a larry fitzgerald, calvin johnson, andre johnson or brandon marshall, my point is that every offense needs a #1 Wr capable of 1000 yd season....if that doesnt happen the lombardi wont reside in the city.....

thankfully we have eddie royal.....so the bmarsh thing isnt as big as some make it to be but, but it would be a tremendous loss, if royal gets hurt we could be screwed without bmarsh....unless you think gaffney and stokley are 1000 yd recivers still.....

thats my point....hopefully that cleared it a bit.....:salute:

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 02:24 AM
I thought the whole reason he was in FL doing the rehab was to be near his doctor that did the surgery .. now this puts another light onto this story all together.. tweddle de tweddle DUMB..

no he is orlando to be be with comeptent rehab people.....that was the point all along.....

Lonestar
06-05-2009, 02:27 AM
good rebuttal points, but the trainers and doctors are still the same.....and i dont see you alling out the other players that arent at passing camp learning the so called system either.

marshall missed plenty of time last year, and a new offense was installed last year, but he still came back in a very short time with a jacked hand and a hip injury to catch 104 balls and make the pro bowl....seriously....the contract spin is people trying to put 2 and 2 together....it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out its a long off-season as well, and that people will look for any angle to spice up the off-season even if there isnt one to spice up....

and using cutler is lame he is gone becasue he pissed of bowlen not becasue of missing voulntary offseason work.....

i agree with letting marshall play out his contract, before paying him...its smart but i dont agree with people speculating a link between him rehabbing in orlando and a holdout when there is no valid proof of that.


sorry I guessed I missed that new offense that was installed.. and from what I'm hearing it was manily go deep and jay will try to get you the ball in this offense it is read and crossing pattern intensive.. more complex than mikes ultimate 5-6 plays that just looked complex because of how they lined up.. as WR not so hard to learn cause your out there near the sideline...

ultimately this is just all about a new contract.. learn to deal with that concept.. it is always about money..

Lonestar
06-05-2009, 02:29 AM
no he is orlando to be be with comeptent rehab people.....that was the point all along.....


there are competent rehab places in DEN they do not have to be affiliated with the broncos, since some here blame the injury on mike and his trainers.. .. but his Doctor is from DEN that is where I would be..

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 02:47 AM
there are competent rehab places in DEN they do not have to be affiliated with the broncos, since some here blame the injury on mike and his trainers.. .. but his Doctor is from DEN that is where I would be..

as g money stated to you the best rehab places are in places like orlando, matter of fact the top traing complex in the USA for sports happens to be in orlando.....

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 02:49 AM
sorry I guessed I missed that new offense that was installed.. and from what I'm hearing it was manily go deep and jay will try to get you the ball in this offense it is read and crossing pattern intensive.. more complex than mikes ultimate 5-6 plays that just looked complex because of how they lined up.. as WR not so hard to learn cause your out there near the sideline...

ultimately this is just all about a new contract.. learn to deal with that concept.. it is always about money..

when there is more proof than a spin article by the DP and speculation by you, i will accept its about money, right now i accept facts.

bmarsh is rehabbing
bmarsh is missing a voluntary camp
bmarsh is not at the camp like all the other injured players(again why arent you calling these guys out)


the rest is spin untill proven otherwise.....

Lonestar
06-05-2009, 02:54 AM
when there is more proof than a spin article by the DP and speculation by you, i will accept its about money, right now i accept facts.

bmarsh is rehabbing
bmarsh is missing a voluntary camp
bmarsh is not at the camp like all the other injured players(again why arent you calling these guys out)


the rest is spin untill proven otherwise.....


actually it is not spin, it is speculation..

we do not know if the other players are at the camp or not.. and to the best of my knowledge none are asking for a new contract.. if the situation were the same I'd be asking about them also..


again show me where they re not in camp attending meeting and they are looking for a new contract and I'll deal with them after Marshall..

now I'm going to bed.. night hope you sleep well believing that Marshall is indeed not holding out..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 03:33 AM
actually it is not spin, it is speculation..

we do not know if the other players are at the camp or not.. and to the best of my knowledge none are asking for a new contract.. if the situation were the same I'd be asking about them also..


again show me where they re not in camp attending meeting and they are looking for a new contract and I'll deal with them after Marshall..

now I'm going to bed.. night hope you sleep well believing that Marshall is indeed not holding out..:laugh::laugh::laugh:


we do know becasue MCD directly stated they werent there and thats normal for all injured players.....

and i will sleep great btw:D

WARHORSE
06-05-2009, 04:28 AM
nice comeback, Mr. Wizard


Thanks weazel.

One turn deserves another no?

WARHORSE
06-05-2009, 04:41 AM
we do know becasue MCD directly stated they werent there and thats normal for all injured players.....

and i will sleep great btw:D


Um, listen to the wording McDaniels used in his interview and you'll see he chose his words very carefully concerning Marshall not being there.

He danced around a bit answering if he wanted Marshall to be there, if he was learning the offense, etc, etc.

Elevation inc
06-05-2009, 06:38 AM
Um, listen to the wording McDaniels used in his interview and you'll see he chose his words very carefully concerning Marshall not being there.

He danced around a bit answering if he wanted Marshall to be there, if he was learning the offense, etc, etc.

there was no dancing he said....Marshall is in orlando rehabbing, in fact none of the injured players are here thats normal, would we like him to be here yes, because as a coach you want all your players here, doesnt mean they have to this is a buisness and the NFL has rules, players are not required to be here unless its mandatory, and injured players usually arent.....

i really dont get the conspiracy you all are looking for here....

seriously lets talk about contract stuff when he starts missing mandatory events......

Ravage!!!
06-05-2009, 10:40 AM
I love Royal... but he would NOT be a #1 WR and wouldn't be as studly without Marshall on the other side. Please dont' come back with "well he was without marshall against Oakland".. because he was an unknown. His first game in the NFL, the Raiders were horrible, and had no idea what to expect from him. Their game plan was horrible.

Stokely runs great routes and has great hands. He may not be as dynamic as Royal, but Royal was meant to be a #2, and a damn good one. But he'll never demand the kind of attention from the defense that Marshall will and does.

I would rather have the talent on the FIELD rather than this problem we've had of not paying the good players and letting them end up somewhere else. We need to get Marshall a new contract.

There is absolutely NO...NONE... NO proof of any holdout. Those that don't like marshall will jump on that wagon because thats what they want to believe. THis offseason has been so negative, and bad, for our organization that everyone is on pins-n-needles about everything.

T.K.O.
06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
as g money stated to you the best rehab places are in places like orlando, matter of fact the top traing complex in the USA for sports happens to be in orlando.....

im sure everything is all right,nothing bad could happen to brandon....in......ORLANDO?

WARHORSE
06-05-2009, 11:15 AM
there was no dancing he said....Marshall is in orlando rehabbing, in fact none of the injured players are here thats normal, would we like him to be here yes, because as a coach you want all your players here, doesnt mean they have to this is a buisness and the NFL has rules, players are not required to be here unless its mandatory, and injured players usually arent.....

i really dont get the conspiracy you all are looking for here....

seriously lets talk about contract stuff when he starts missing mandatory events......


Perception.

I like it when your head coach is stating all the league rules concerning voluntary workouts. Funny how hes saying that theres plenty of time for Brandon to learn the offense.......no problem. Hes obeying league rules, etc, etc. I guess Brandon is smarter than everyone else who has to spend all this time on a well documented complicated offense.

Would I like Brandon to be here, sure, sure. Every hc wants his whole team to be here, etc, etc, etc.

Also, he didnt say Brandon was learning the offense like everyone else, he said he has had plenty of opportunity to do so.

He did NOT say, Brandon is learning the offense like everyone else.

Those would be things I am listening for.

His agents statement are plain to me.

His agent spoke......concerns. Only one thing concerns an agent: getting paid.

Ravage!!!
06-05-2009, 12:02 PM
I don't think McDaniels offense is more complicated than Shanahans, and he picked it up.

Lonestar
06-05-2009, 01:53 PM
we do know becasue MCD directly stated they werent there and thats normal for all injured players.....

and i will sleep great btw:D


he did not say there where not there he said they were not particpating on the field..

Lonestar
06-05-2009, 02:06 PM
Perception.

I like it when your head coach is stating all the league rules concerning voluntary workouts. Funny how hes saying that theres plenty of time for Brandon to learn the offense.......no problem. Hes obeying league rules, etc, etc. I guess Brandon is smarter than everyone else who has to spend all this time on a well documented complicated offense.

Would I like Brandon to be here, sure, sure. Every hc wants his whole team to be here, etc, etc, etc.

Also, he didnt say Brandon was learning the offense like everyone else, he said he has had plenty of opportunity to do so.

He did NOT say, Brandon is learning the offense like everyone else.

Those would be things I am listening for.

His agents statement are plain to me.

His agent spoke......concerns. Only one thing concerns an agent: getting paid.


Even though we often disagreed on Jay/Josh your very perceptive here and have listened closely to what the coach was really saying..:salute:

Those folks that want to believe will do so, that all is well until the other shoe drops..

if he wanted to be here he would be in fact he was here for an interview and then went back home IIRC he was also here for the last camp,, but then the issues came up about money and this is the ONLY way for him to press the point home he want more than he is getting..

the bovine excrement about having better rehab places in fl is just that.. BE.. are they better perhaps are they necessary NO.. the ones in DEN are probably just are good just not as many as they have in FL.... I can see BM in one of them next to 8-9 geriatrics on a stationery bike humping it for hours.. Or more likely like G~ said in his basement pumping iron having a cool one to cool down..

we will soon know fsoon enough, when the mini camp happens. if he shows he may NOT be holding out or he may be just biding his time..

weazel
06-05-2009, 04:15 PM
Thanks weazel.

One turn deserves another no?

sure, war... :beer:

sacmar
06-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Money is king over all....and marshall don't get paid to get the bears in the playoffs.

WARHORSE
06-15-2009, 07:17 PM
Bump.



Looking back on the original post, I think Josh ought to focus on coaching and let the BMOC take care of this. I think it serves the organization.

Both Bowlen and Josh McDs position should be: No comment. No comment. No comment.



We dont want another media storm, and the best way to shut it down is: NO COMMENT.




Behind closed doors, the only talk we should have with Brandon is, youre under contract, come in and play, or get fined, and then see ya next year, same bat time, same bat channel.



Other than that, unless some team offers us the house.............

Two number ones is the only thing bringing me to the table period.

broncofanatic1987
06-16-2009, 10:01 AM
They're not going to get 2 #1's for Marshall. The going rate for receivers of Marshall's caliber when they are healthy and not facing jail time or suspension seems to be a 1st and a 3rd. If they can get someone to offer that, that would be good enough reason for them to make a trade.

Ravage!!!
06-16-2009, 10:14 AM
yeup.. 'cause we all know that 2 in the bush is better than one in the hand

weazel
06-16-2009, 01:27 PM
Bump.



Looking back on the original post, I think Josh ought to focus on coaching and let the BMOC take care of this. I think it serves the organization.

Both Bowlen and Josh McDs position should be: No comment. No comment. No comment.



We dont want another media storm, and the best way to shut it down is: NO COMMENT.




Behind closed doors, the only talk we should have with Brandon is, youre under contract, come in and play, or get fined, and then see ya next year, same bat time, same bat channel.



Other than that, unless some team offers us the house.............

Two number ones is the only thing bringing me to the table period.

McDaniels will be lucky to get a 2nd. He isn't smart enough to get more than that

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:12 PM
Brandon has considerable leverage when it comes to contractual issues.

Just listen to the words: "Trade Me" resonate through your head for a moment.

The Chicago Bears have a QB right now who very possibly has Brandons ear at this moment, but even if he doesnt, a holdout will undoubtedly lead to that very reality.

Did ok til this paragraph.

Marsh has ZERO leverage. In fact, that's the FIRST time I've even heard that angle since the saga has started.

-he's under contract
-he's injured
-he's under the watchful eye of Goodell
-he has to learn a new offense
-he's not shown up to mandatories
-he's still got a court date in GA.

BMarsh can't even SNIFF leverage ;)

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:14 PM
Since when was Brandon Marshall holding out?

:listen:




got it?

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:23 PM
Oh I see it is more about Josh than anything else..

Did anyone say he was not a talent and we would be better off without him?..

just as in any labor dispute the leverage is with the COMPANY. they can always hold out longer than the workers can..

Not sure how many strikers or hold outs you have been around but I suspect not many..

The fans are still gonna come to the games and buy stuff it is in there nature they are not going to not come to watch the team EVEN if it stinks this year because they are fans of the team not jay or Marshall..

he can't play for anyone else, if he sits out he does not get paid..

If he comes back in week ten or what ever, all it does is signify he would HAVE NORMALLY BEEN as FA but not this year..

he will be a RFA that is all and he will have forfeited most of the 2.2 he was supposed to earn

I suspect he did not save any of the 2.2 he made last year to tide him over.. MORONS do not think that far ahead..

So now how does losing all the money for teh year get him holding all the cards.. when he is back to square one as a RFA until we get a new CBA..

BTW in the new scheme do you think he will be as BIG a deal as he was to jay last year? or just another WR to throw to IF he is open..

Jr, you forget.....


...IF he sits out, then he'll lose his 4th yr, and also his FA status next year.

He has ZERO leverage. ;)

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:31 PM
I guess his request for a raise came with a 'if you want to' speech at the end of it.

Raise 'requests' are player/agent business moves. A player is looking out for himself, just like the orgs.

Let me tell you how Brandon and his agent are explaining his injury to the Broncos: "In spite of your misdiagnosis of my hip, I played through the pain for you. As well, I played at considerable personal risk for you since I just watched Rods career come to an end with the same injury. Not only did I play on a bum hip, I played to the tune of 104 catches, a career high BTW, 1265 yards and 6 TDs for you. Just think what Im going to be when Im healthy. I played for you at risk, now you accept some risk as well. I deserve to be paid more, my performance dictates that."


And the truth is, it does.


And if you think no one will reach for Brandon Marshall from the other 31 teams, then I think you should look to the near past.

Marshall is young. Marshall is a stud. Studs mean winning.

I must've missed the diagnosis on his hip that said it's the same as Rod's.

Link anywhere?

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:35 PM
He just caught 104 passes in 15 games.

Theres nothing to prove ability wise.

As for off the field issues, hes simply going to say, put in protective clauses geared towards his behavior. If I screw up, you get your money back.

Personally, Im good with that.

You're living in the past, War......

How.......many.......times....... :tsk:


New offensive scheme
New QB
New teammates
SURGERY


Nothing to prove? I beg to differ. ;)

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:41 PM
well thats funny considering the 9 of the last ten SB winners all had a number 1 WR....

1999 Broncos- Rod Smith
2000 Ravens- Shannon Sharpe
2001 Rams- Isaac bruce
2002 Patriots- Troy Brown
2003 Bucaneers- Keyshawn Johnson
2004 Patriots- David Givens
2005 Patriots- Dieon Branch
2006 Steelers- Hines Ward
2007 Colts- Marvin Harrison
2008 Giants- plaxico buress
2009 Steelers- Hines ward

funny how the last ten SB winners all had a number 1 go to WR, the only exception being baltimore who threw to there TE sharpe, but they also had the best defense the last 2 decades have ever seen.


if you wanna win the SB...perhaps you need a # 1 wideout.....

Ummmm....I highly doubt there's ANY team out there that doesn't have a #1 WR.

:confused:

Dean
06-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Jr, you forget.....


...IF he sits out, then he'll lose his 4th yr, and also his FA status next year.

He has ZERO leverage. ;)

A player only needs to be available for 6 games and it counts as a full year of playing time.

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:46 PM
are you serious? can you prove ryan torain is in denver learning the playbook???? or the other injured players? can you prove that they are nose deep in the system watching and studying right now?

im sorry bro, but i disagree, you must be god if you can tell that the players are doing this especially since MCd states specifically that all the injured players arent there, and thats normal...during his press conference on the main website.

I get that you have reservations about b-marsh, but i dont think its fair to paint him as a villian simply becasue is rehabbing in orlando away from doctors and trainers that told him all last season his hip was good to go....if i was him and or even if i was brian dawkins one of the best leaders in the NFL....if i had a injury that required surgery becasue of inattention by a paid medical staff, i would avoid them at all costs if possible, especially when the freaking passing camp aint even mandatory and the other players arent there that injured either.....

seriously i like what you post here an respect ya but there is major hypocrisy here, trashing MCD bashers for the sky is falling mantra and then knocking bmarsh for not showing to a NON mandatory passing camp, to do correct rehab and get healthy for next year, like all the other inujured players, people are forgetting about, come on now.....your better than that...the sky is falling the sky is falling.....lol


seriously there is no proof this is even about a contract....all it is is blindless specualtion...

FACTS!!!!

1. Bmarsh talked to MCD about a raise
2. Bmarsh was at the first offseason practices with the other injured players as required and will be at minicamp as required
3. Bmarsh is in orlando to rehab with doctors he trusts
4. Bmarsh is not required to be at passing camp like all the injured players as stated by MCD
5. The media and the DP bridged the contract angle and orlando, not BMARSH, MCD or the denver FO...
6. Is the sky really falling here to???? NO:D

I must admit, it's a blast reading older posts..... :lol:

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:48 PM
its not dumb if he finds a way to move out and get a bigger contract. Just because denver isn't smart enough to sign that kind of WR talent, doesn't mean every other team in the NFL wouldn't be.

I don't think they should talk contract extension with him until he shows he has IT!:laugh:

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 04:51 PM
If he doesn't show up for mandatory camp, I'm more than willing to call him an idiot.

~G

......looking......looking......looking.....:D

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 05:03 PM
I love Royal... but he would NOT be a #1 WR and wouldn't be as studly without Marshall on the other side. Please dont' come back with "well he was without marshall against Oakland".. because he was an unknown. His first game in the NFL, the Raiders were horrible, and had no idea what to expect from him. Their game plan was horrible.

Stokely runs great routes and has great hands. He may not be as dynamic as Royal, but Royal was meant to be a #2, and a damn good one. But he'll never demand the kind of attention from the defense that Marshall will and does.

I would rather have the talent on the FIELD rather than this problem we've had of not paying the good players and letting them end up somewhere else. We need to get Marshall a new contract.

There is absolutely NO...NONE... NO proof of any holdout. Those that don't like marshall will jump on that wagon because thats what they want to believe. THis offseason has been so negative, and bad, for our organization that everyone is on pins-n-needles about everything.

Really?

I'm seeing quite alot of articles popping up saying things just the opposite.

:coffee:

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 05:08 PM
A player only needs to be available for 6 games and it counts as a full year of playing time.

So who's to say he'll meet that 6 game threshold? ;)

Tned
06-16-2009, 05:13 PM
So who's to say he'll meet that 6 game threshold? ;)

That's up to him, but Marshall and his agent would be idiots to not have him report by week 10 and get his year of seniority towards FA.

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 05:22 PM
That's up to him, but Marshall and his agent would be idiots to not have him report by week 10 and get his year of seniority towards FA.

I think, tned, you are missing, my, ummmmm........


.....*wink wink*.....

....point.

Anything could happen to Marsh between now and wk 11.

Tned
06-16-2009, 06:19 PM
I think, tned, you are missing, my, ummmmm........


.....*wink wink*.....

....point.

Anything could happen to Marsh between now and wk 11.

Sorry, my head hurts too much to interpret wink, wink code. Don't know hat you are suggesting.

rcsodak
06-16-2009, 09:19 PM
Sorry, my head hurts too much to interpret wink, wink code. Don't know hat you are suggesting.

UGH!

How about a broken leg....


...obvious enough for you?!?!?!?!?! lol

WARHORSE
06-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Did ok til this paragraph.

Marsh has ZERO leverage. In fact, that's the FIRST time I've even heard that angle since the saga has started.

-he's under contract
-he's injured
-he's under the watchful eye of Goodell
-he has to learn a new offense
-he's not shown up to mandatories
-he's still got a court date in GA.

BMarsh can't even SNIFF leverage ;)

This was posted before all this started.

Marshall has leverage. The Broncos want to win, and they want to win now. They dont want him on the sidelines. He is the best receiver on the team, period. They need him on the field. Thats called leverage. Considerable leverage. Leverage enough to get his way? Nope.

They just got over the Cutler saga. Dont think they want to go through the same thing.

HOWEVER.......

if it comes down to hardball.........yes.........in the end, the Broncos hold the cards.

WARHORSE
06-16-2009, 10:37 PM
That's up to him, but Marshall and his agent would be idiots to not have him report by week 10 and get his year of seniority towards FA.


Would be idiots?:D


He would kill his own career, and get nothing in return.

He'll recoup none of the monies he'll lose if he stays out until that time.

Besides.......he'll beat his wife under that type of stress.:tsk: